KOTOR 1 vs KOTOR 2

The age old question of KOTOR 1 vs KOTOR 2 and my thoughts on it. Thanks to both Obsidian and Bioware for the great games.
My twitter is / nerdslayerg
Credit goes to / battlestarcentura
For the footage on KOTOR 1. Please check out his playthrough of KOTOR 1 ifyou guys don't want to go and play yourself.
Credit goes to GetDaved for his Female Exile (intro footage). Thanks. / getdaved

[@MGuyGadbois]

KOTOR2 gains big point for showing that containers are empty after you take the items - KOTOR1 would leave them wondering if you already opened that container or not. So frustrating

[@guillegarcia7146]

Universal Exports, Ltd. hahahah the biggest improvement by far

[@burnout713]

Lol. This may actually be the first thing I've read that makes a solid case for something being better in II over I.

[@revdckmz]

customization,story, and graphics too

[@Burgerfanny]

That, plus other subtle things too. Like party members getting out of your way when you try to walk past them, or the ability to break down and construct items. But the biggest improvement was the introduction of party member influence. If handled well, it opened up lots of extra story, content and extra abilities for your character.

[@nedmusic1494]

Another big improvement was Pazaak gameplay. In the first Kotor, you were always dealt the cards first. Therefore you always had a bigger chance to bust. Kotor 2 actually made Pazaak a fun and much more fair game. xD

[@dennissmeets7700]

"We need to talk" Me:whats on your mind ,carth? "Id rather not talk about it right now.."

[@CombativeLlama]

Playing 1 now and that guy is bugging me so much. Like talk or doing my guy

[@eccentricjoe5410]

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who got recommended this after already watching it like a year ago

[@drew1817]

To be fair with Carth, Atton has a similar issue but the background covers it perfectly, the ones who know the story will understand what i'm saying.

[@WarAkaan]

If u listen to carth,u realize he has trust issues

[@drew1817]

@@WarAkaan that was my whole point They are pretty much the same character although IMO Atton was built better

[@LordCHull]

I've been playing KOTOR II with the Restored Content Mod, and honestly . . . It is leaps and bounds ahead of almost every Star Wars game in story and tone. The debate it raises on the Force, along with the cast of characters, places it as a must play Star Wars game, and my personal favorite.

[@KommissarBanx]

I know the content mod has been a work in progress adding more and more while improving on itself for a long time now. Would you say it adds a substantial enough amount of content that someone who's played both games extensively would warrant a full final playthrough for? (please don't just say the word yes lmao)

[@brianhung7357]

KommissarBanx For sure you should do a final play through. I personally felt that while the general character remained the same it felt more defined and deliberate. In essence same game but stronger and deeper.

[@zaljkopetrescu2177]

So you need fan created mods to make the game what it is supposed to be? Yeah, no thanks. I played the games they were upon release - and KOTOR is far more enjoyable than the buggy, dysfunctional mess that was KOTOR 2.

[@OptimusV]

The official release on Steam has the restored content added back into to the game. The game was rushed due to the release of Episode III. This meant that content had to be cut, the only thing the restored content mod did was to add it back into the game. The game is very different now than it was at release, the cut content was substantial and so adding that back makes a huge difference. Doesn't matter if you played the game upon release, those criticisms don't apply here. I also played the game when it came out and gave it a second chance with the restored content mod, huge difference, not the same game at all. The circumstances are what they are, the game was rushed but the content was always there in the game files.

[@zaljkopetrescu2177]

Optimus That’s fine. I personally am not interested at this point in going back to playing a game from 2005. If you enjoy it, that’s great. For me, I judge a game based on how it is during the era in which it was released - not years later with “restored content” that the devs cut just to make an arbitrary release date.

[@milo20060]

Both lol. Any KOTOR > Anything that EA has released after Disney giving them rights.

[@MoveJustLikeMOB]

IMO Jedi Fallen Order is way more fun than KotOR but the KotOR games have a better story

@@MoveJustLikeMOB yea well it's because kotor and fallen order are not even the same type of game. One being a adventure linear-story with heavy influence from the tomb raider games, and kotor being a rpg

[@XicorVT]

@ more influnce by Dark Souls game even the Directer said that that Dark Souls influence the gameplay in Fallen Order

@@XicorVT well yea sure, but there are still a damn lot of inspiration from the tomb raider games

[@XicorVT]

@ nope the Director never said anything about tomb raider in the interview that you can see on youtube

[@nathang6376]

I prefer KOTOR II by a wide margin, but one of my favorite things about it was how it handled its predecessor. It didn't simply outdo KOTOR I, it expanded on its story and made Revan so mythic and mysterious that I almost couldn't believe I had played him before.

[@Philip54622]

Whenever they mention something I did in kotor 1 I always get excited like "yep that was me"

[@yamadoyato6055]

Kotor 2 is what TLJ should've been - a careful deconstruction of beloved tropes and subversion of beliefs. Assuming that ryan actually could've pulled off such a thing. To be fair to him though, kotor 1 had provided a solid groundwork, much needed for a subversion to work, something tfa never really did.

[@rednecksniper4715]

Dude I always felt at peace when I played KOTOR 1 on dantoonie

[@disbehaving9913]

@Arnez Willis mannan music is so peaceful

[@75JUNAKI]

@@disbehaving9913 Yee

[@dontwrite9s4ever86]

the original had the best music

[@raphaeltouron9149]

that's ironic bcs there are much more enemies in Kotor 1's Dabtooïne

[@75JUNAKI]

@@raphaeltouron9149 Oh god thanks for the reminder

[@TOFKAS01]

Bad thing about Kotor 2: Too much content has been cut. Bad thing about Kotor 1: Its basicaly the story of Baldurs Gate in the Star Wars universe. Bad thing about both: There was never a Kotor 3 who would bring the story to an end. Instead they made these stupid MMO.

[@the_kekromancer9779]

TOFKAS01 Download The Sith Lords Restored content, it adds quite a bit of cut content from the game.

[@TOFKAS01]

Thats right and its one of the best fan-projects from the last years. But its not the consumers job to finish products.

[@the_kekromancer9779]

TOFKAS01 That i agree with.

[@marklee1194]

I agree with the story which is basically Bioware's formulaic plot which is the same in most (if not, all) of its games. However, KOTOR II is simply more innovative and more engaging. The fact that the Jedi Exile's real name was not revealed when the game was released helped players to assume the role more easily. That is not to say KOTOR I was bad, but I feel that KOTOR II brings more to the table and has the higher replay value.

[@gronndar]

+TOFKAS01 You say like people modding games, making unofficial patches, restoring cut content etc. etc. is a bad thing. If there would not be any of that activity, Bethseda would have been shut down ages ago, lol.

[@bwilson774]

Kotor 1 was for movie type fans kotor 2 was for EU type fans.

[@harloxzz1990]

I Agree KOTOR I is the typical Star Wars movie and KOTOR II is more like a comic book saga

[@Kissamiess]

That does make a lot of sense. I was a huge EU fan and liked K2 better.

[@elmoandicecube6779]

Yep your right there

[@Tmathh]

yes

[@vampireknightfan]

I feel Star Wars is great BECAUSE of it's backstory and fully fleshed out lore.

[@KravRage]

One thing I liked was the contrast between Jolee Bindo and Kreia. They are both initially presented as morally grey characters, challenging your assumptions about the Force, yet one the moment, comes, Jolee stands against the Darkness and Kreia embraces it.

[@NumbingDisasterAnon]

Kreia doesn't embrace the darkness, she hates it with every equal of her hatred to the light. She hates the Force in its entirety. She's out to kill God

[@comicsans1689]

NumbingDiasterAnon Kreia preached a moral grey philosophy and wanted to kill The Force, but still got BTFO in the end because her meme ideology can't overcome the lightside/darkside game mechanic perks. Centrists BTFO!

[@panama1942]

@@NumbingDisasterAnon Which is a dark trait in general.

[@miguelcondadoolivar5149]

Jolee is not morally grey, he is righteous. He only rejects the self-denial the Light requires.

[@TonyPajamaz]

Bastila falling to the dark side is actually a great part for her character and the story as a whole. Bastila always tried to appear like the perfect jedi but we constantly see her doubt and lose faith in herself. When she acts that way it’s her trying to be who she isn’t. She has her doubts about the Jedi code from the start. I find it to be a fantastic part of the plot.

[@rolandfischer931]

It just isn't foreshadowed enough at all and literally takes place over a week off screen. That's the problem with it. I just played Kotor 1 for the first time this year and her change definitely was definitely not a high point to me

[@karenkk7881]

@@rolandfischer931 idk, i went full sith mode and tried to make her join me in every conversation we had so everything made sense in my playthrough

[@kroduk2400]

unlike kotor2.. we knew off the bat the granny was a villain.. that guy played kotor 2 before kotor 1.. 100% No way someone prefer the second title if he played it in order

[@miguelcondadoolivar5149]

​@@rolandfischer931It is foreshadowed as much as you being Revan. 1.- Bastila constantly talks about how easy it is to fall into the Dark Side if you follow your feelings and desires, her mind and her heart are in a constant war. 2.- If Revan becomes righteous, she will ask him how he's doing it so easily. If you tell her you are just doing what feels right, she will openly state that she can't do that. 3.- Her constant speeches about the possibility of falling and how her feelings betray her are an attempt if her mind to reject her heart, to stop the constant clash between the two... But, as her romance with Revan shows, she can't really let go of her feelings. 4.- She speaks against Revan using the Force in cutscenes (like when he uses mindtricks to impose his will on people), but she herself uses it against Mission during a conversation in which she asks uncomfortable questions about her desires and their influence in her use of the Force.

[@miguelcondadoolivar5149]

​@@rolandfischer931It is foreshadowed as much as you being Revan. 1.- Bastila constantly talks about how easy it is to fall into the Dark Side if you follow your feelings and desires, her mind and her heart are in a constant war. 2.- If Revan becomes righteous, she will ask him how he's doing it so easily. If you tell her you are just doing what feels right, she will openly state that she can't do that. 3.- Her constant speeches about the possibility of falling and how her feelings betray her are an attempt if her mind to reject her heart, to stop the constant clash between the two... But, as her romance with Revan shows, she can't really let go of her feelings. 4.- She speaks against Revan using the Force in cutscenes (like when he uses mindtricks to impose his will on people), but she herself uses it against Mission during a conversation in which she asks uncomfortable questions about her desires and their influence in her use of the Force.

[@Joey-pb6ul]

I feel a large part of what dragged Kotor 2 down was the ending, not just the lack of ending cutscenes, but the whole experience. In Kotor where you hear about Malak and how evil he is throughout the whole game, then you find out the Reaven reveal and he kidnaps/corrupts Bastila giving you a grudge against him. Then, when you finally get to the starforge you have to fight your way through hordes of robots and dark jedi before finding your old robes again. Then Malak unlocks the full power of the starforge and regenerates time and time again until you finally figure out his weakness and beat him. In Kotor 2 you fight 2 villians who you have no infomation on for 90% of the game, then, you overwhelm their measly defenses and proceed to kick their asses without even trying. Overall I felt like I fought my way through Kotor 2 to get to an epic climax and instead it ended with a whimper causing me to feel cheated. (I ended up typing more than I intended but I don't want to delete my writing. Thanks if you ended up reading this far)

[@ebonifragaria]

Exactly my experience. The game was ramping up to this intriguing, complex finale and then just sort of... stopped. Might as well have had Traya say "CONGLATURATION!!!" After how invested I was, I felt robbed. Regardless of whether you prefer the story of KOTOR 1 or 2, the first was better told.

[@kamalacastley890]

it's not the destination, but the journey that counts.

[@quinnrice3027]

It's not about the boss fights it's a out the interactions and the moral sckizem that kerya try's to show you

[@nathang6376]

If you speak with Kreia about the Sith hunting you, she will tell you everything you want to know. She’ll tell you what they are, what they have done, what they believe, and what their existence proves about the Force. Listen to Visas, and she will tell you of her apprenticeship to Nihilus, and how he came to take her for his own. No, I never felt uninformed about either of them.

[@TheMoistDonuts]

@@nathang6376 exactly this! Its as if people skip the dialogue interactions completely 🤦🏻‍♂️ I appreciated the journey itself of Kotor2 way more than kotor 1, although I genuinely loved both games, i’d always play kotor 2 over kotor1. Another game that’s completely unrelated and had an amazing journey with great interactions was Dragon Age Origins. Kotor 2 and DA Origins are literally my too favorite games to play and have 100% replay value. In fact! Im gonna go play one of them right damn now! Lol

[@rasplez9889]

Wait... A redeemed Revan has gone missing... You're the last Jedi... The temple on dantooine was destroyed... Did JJ Abrams just rip off the old republic AS WELL AS THE ORIGINALS at the same time?!?

[@sh-bf7bv]

I don't think Abrams wrote it though.

[@SaberRexZealot]

s h Pretty much all of his films are just copies of better movies though.

[@keyan1219]

RAsplez 98 he ripped it off and then removed it form cannon

[@ZeroSensed]

Owen Buckner IM SO GLAD IM NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO THINKS POE IS LIKE CARTH

[@TLTeo]

@Owen Buckner Kylo was also a massive ripoff of Jacen Solo's story from the old EU. Except, of course, worse.

[@KitchenSinkSoup]

I Played KOTOR 2 when I was 8 years old and it scared me. The sound of the Sith Assassins and mining droids on Peragus still freaks me out to this day.

[@AsianTheDomination]

i think he meant he was 8 when he played originally

[@KitchenSinkSoup]

***** I was 2 years old when this game came out.

[@Da1337Man]

That can't be true. if you're 8 years old now, that would mean you were born in 2009. KOTOR 2 came out in 2004. Or are you a secret time lord?

[@KitchenSinkSoup]

Da1337Man Nope I'm 15 right now.

[@DEATH_ANGEL1178]

+Kolbein of Holmr then u worded your original comment very oddly

[@Santi-ei3qf]

Kreia is probably the best written character in both games but other than that I prefer KOTOR 1

[@simonhakansson9300]

In my opinion she is the best written character of all time.

[@sidiksurat1878]

In my opinion shes just boring and it was easily predictable who she was.

[@RenamedChannel]

@@sidiksurat1878 Who was she then?

[@ReasonableVoice]

It wasn't supposed to be a surprise that she's a Sith. If you have enough influence with her she pretty much tells you about her past.

[@DravicPL]

Kreia is probably the best written character in the entire history of digital media.

[@bwilson774]

Kotor 2 had way better equipment customization, item creation and every follower had a unique ability, i can't believe you left that out of the game play category.

[@AsianTheDomination]

repair was a useless skill because of computor use. so the whole crafting thing was great because it made every skill useful

[@bwilson774]

*****​​​​ repair was useful in kotor 1 + 2 if you wanted to fully repair t3-m4 and hk-47 and follow their plots all the way through.

[@AsianTheDomination]

that was it though. i just didnt understand why i should repair a bot to fight with me when i can kill everyone in the other room by using a computor

[@bwilson774]

***** It wasn't my favorite skill either, I would rather have put those points into treat injury or persuade, once you heard the story then I agree, It's a somewhat pointless skill.

[@matthewnakhla]

i usually divide my skill points between treat injury, computer use, and repair. Persuade gets some points every few level ups. and for me i am always satisfied with the character i created

[@sethcoma]

Both games are really incredible. Kotor 2 had so much potential to be an absolutely fantastic game, but when released was very broken and unfinished, and even with the RCM it doesn't feel quite complete. I really loved the music in Kotor 1, very classic Star Wars, and also love the darker music in Kotor 2. Both are phenomenal and I do listen to them quite often. Both stories are really quite fantastic and I kinda feel like its comparing apples and oranges when you are trying to decide which is better. I do find that I play Kotor 1 more often.

[@75JUNAKI]

Seth Coma agreed

[@arx3516]

KOTOR 2 had the extremley useful feature of having 2 sets of weapons that you could swap instantaneously between.

[@EnderHeart5911]

Can't we all just agree that they're both better than SWtOR?

[@hibco3000]

Wayyy better

[@ricoco7891]

EnderHeart5911 Sith Warrior and Imperial Agent storylines are dope

[@dreamshade9755]

@@ricoco7891 Smuggler ftw

[@j.g9022]

Beats fallen order as well.

[@saarah0006]

Sea Raider my favourite is sith inquisitor.

[@syrielnightfall2418]

I loved both games, but there's only one giant flaw that hit me in the head when I played KoTOR 2. The dull worlds. Peragus + Telos is definitely the hardest part of the game as you feel like you'll fall asleep before they're over, and they always turn me away from playing KoTOR 2 again because I dislike going through that snorefest of a "tutorial." It really overstayed it's welcome in my opinion. Heck, the first planet that comes to mind when I think about KoTOR 2 is Nar Shaada. It was the most interesting and life filled planet that was in the game. The rest of the planets feel like they suffered from being a bit... too bland? Dantooine made me want to rip my eyes out because all the only places you could really go to where dirty dark caves with 50 hundred of those red eyed bugs. That's the biggest reason I'd rather play KoTOR 1 over 2. 1 had alot of interesting and stand out planets with amazing scenery and they all had their own themes, as well as a shorter Tutorial, and Taris was actually pretty fun. 2 was so focused on one style: Dark and lonely, that it actually hurt it's value. 1 had Manaan, Tatooie, one of the already popular planets in Star Wars, Kashyyk, as well, Koriban, a lively yet peaceful and serene Dantooine, and even that last planet before the Star Forge. In my personal opinion, KoToR 1 has way more replayability because of the characters, planets, and themes. KoTOR 2 lacked interesting characters and planets for me.

[@thesurvivorssanctuary6561]

I would have to define characters into support cast and background characters(the later of which include quest givers, enemies, and anyone outside of the party), and while I think KotOR had a better supporting cast, their many lifeless planets really made their background characters and worlds inferior to KotOR's.

[@freestyle1775]

I agree on the planets thing, even if a 'dead' dantooine in Kotor 2 is definitely on point if you take the story into account, but having played both games many times I cannot agree on the characters, I barely remember kotor 1 characters, execpt for Onasi and Bastila, whereas I still have in mind every kotor 2 characters. The music themes and atmosphere in kotor 2 are also far above the ones from kotor 1

[@johnrosie9769]

Syriel Nightfall I love both games and kotor 2 suffers from being incomplete kotor 1 feels more complete in presentation, I like the more in-depth customization options of kotor 2 and I've had a playthrough in which I was able to convert all the human companions to jedi/Sith/force users well except Candrous/mandalore but yeah it needs more to it and I hated getting locked in to the end game at telos

[@deathrayman8074]

Ah, yes, the negotiator.

[@CrimzinEclipse2010]

KOTOR 1 companions: Carth: Annoying and always “doesn’t want to talk”, despite interrupting you for a discussion. Bastila: Stuck up, arrogant and self-righteous. Mission: Always trying to prove she “ain’t a kid,” but due to her side story with Griff, probably the more sympathetic companions in KOTOR 1. Zaalbar: Honestly, his story on Kashyyk is definitely great character development. Canderous: Good as a slightly 2-dimensional badass war vet. T3-M4: No personality in KOTOR 1 at all. HK-47: One of the greatest Star Wars characters ever. Juhani: Unbelievably annoying in almost every way. Jolee: Funny and cranky with an interesting back story. Jolee, HK and Canderous were the only ones I personally liked. KOTOR 2: Atton: Outwardly caustic and sarcastic, but with a very dark and traumatized background serving the Sith. Kreia: Easily one of the most complex and well-written Star Wars characters ever, with a very unique philosophy on the nature of the Force. T3-M4: Actually has an R2-D2/Wall-E-like personality to him which makes him likeable. HK-47: Still just as good as before, and still one of the best and funniest game characters of all time. G0-T0: Very well-written droid character with a fascinating backstory and interesting motivations. Bao-Dur: Honestly, kind of bland compared to the other KOTOR 2 companions, but still better written than Carth, Juhani or Bastila, imo. Mandalore/Canderous: Basically all the best parts of KOTOR 1 Canderous, but with better character development(since Mandalore is post-Revan and his motivations are more broad-reaching than the first game). Visas: Good dark character, clearly someone who is good, but has been forced for years under the influence of one of the darkest and most evil beings in existence(Nihilus). Mira: Solid background and has a lot of sass, much less annoying than Bastila or Juhani. Hanharr: Terrifying depiction of what a serial killing, psychopathic Wookie looks like. Disciple: Really boring compared to the other companions, but much less annoying than Carth or Bastila. Handmaiden: Annoying compared to the other KOTOR 2 companions, but still better written than Bastila or Juhani. When you also factor in Nihilus and Sion, KOTOR 2 is hands-down better when it comes to great characters.

[@PuntMirror]

I played 1 before 2 and I enjoyed 2 more(minus the ending). What sealed it for me is despite not playing in over 10 years I could still remember who all the characters are in Kotor 2 and what they're like. Kotor 1 I could only remember a few and had to look up the rest.

[@CrimzinEclipse2010]

@@PuntMirror For sure. All the characters in KOTOR 2(including the villains) are really memorable and fleshed out, especially with all the cutscenes on the Ebon Hawk. With KOTOR 1, a lot of them are just background noise and extra bodies in a fight. However, I do really like the feature in KOTOR 1 where each character has their own side quest/story dealing with someone from their past. It was actually one of the best parts of the game.

[@MrEffectfilms]

I gotta say I felt like this vs. is very clearly one sided. Kotor 1 isn't generic at all. If you played it for the first time last week or a year ago then it might seem simple and predictable because a lot of stories through out fiction have used similar ones since. A story doesn't have to make you question morality or your own state of being to be good and what makes Kotor 1s story so interesting is it's theme of redemption. Every character including the main has something in their past that needs to be dealt with, and in doing so they all become better people. The Revan reveal has been hailed as one of the best plot twists in gaming history and I absolutely agree, not one person I've talked to who played this at around the time it came out predicted the reveal. Because we had no reason to suspect anything, it's rpg tradition that the main character is always the chosen who will save everyone, but this time there was a reason for that and that reason was brilliant and made perfect sense. Kotor 2 is a great game too but my favorite remains Kotor 1.

[@nerdSlayerstudioss]

Hailed by who? Most people (including me) saw it coming, it's the prototypical amnesia protagonist storyline that has been used dozens of times before KOTOR 1. KOTOR 1s characters are what I would consider objectively worse than KOTOR 2s. Example would be when you think Kotor who do you think? Bastila? Kreia? Atton? Canderous (who's better in the second game)? HK-47(better in the second game)?

[@MrEffectfilms]

When I think Kotor the first character I think of is my own. After that Bastila, then Carth. Look up any list about the top plot twists in gaming history and I guarantee Kotor will likely be in the top 5. What made the reveal so brilliant is that there was no reason to suspect anything, it's rpg tradition that the main character is always the chosen hero who will save everyone. So when it turned out to be a reason for why your the "chosen one" and everything seems to come so easy for you it was such a mind shattering reveal. In retrospect it feels incredibly obvious but first time playing no one saw that coming.

[@nerdSlayerstudioss]

What do you mean nothing to expect? You don't hear/know of where Revan is, but you know he's existing. Then you hear the masters act all awkward around you, talk about some prophecy and being weary. Then all the dreams you have, that Bastila also has? That seemed like an obvious twist to me, but don't get me wrong I still liked it. They did it well.

[@MrEffectfilms]

nerdSlayer no you don't know Revan is still alive. Bastila is held up as the hero who killed Revan and no one contradicts this until the reveal happens. The dreams were previously explained as a result of the Force bond between him and Bastila. So again, no reason to suspect anything about that.

[@LucasJammons]

+MrEffectfilms: I agree. I felt the same way when that reveal happened.

[@SkiDaBird]

I prefer the original. The middle part of Kotor 2 is fantastic, but the first and third acts are severely disappointing. Also, the cut content is really noticeable and took me out of the experience.

[@Pestbringer89]

kotor1 is just boring. Story and characters are just so fucking boring... You are right about the ending though it sucks. Everything leading to it is amazing though. Next to Morrowind, the most immersive game ive ever played.

[@thomasjefferson2813]

@@Pestbringer89 what the character's are not boring and the lore and twist is incredible. It's fun to learn about the events leading to kotor 1. The charachters are way better in kotor than kotor 2 besides kreia. And the side quests are better and so are the planets.

[@edybocman76]

@@Pestbringer89 i found the character very interesting

[@danielortner5079]

Alexander Sandoval yeah idk what Gorgon is talking about There characters are completely fleshed out and, imo I think the ambience is way better in kotor 1 simply because of the lighting and diverse environments. And they side quests were great.

[@stillaliveplus1forme]

@@Pestbringer89 dude you are so wrong about kotor 1 and so is this guy. He forgot a major point about Kotor 1 and kotor 2... THE WORLD And side missions that build the world!!! Kotor 1 wins leaps and bounds. While Kotor 2 features a few ok side quests and features cools planets each 1 of KOTOR 1's qorlds and planets were better developed, and more interesting. Koriban KOTOR2 might be creepier and look cooler but Korriban Kotor 1 has all of the sith tombs and being in the sith academy! That felt like a whole cool game on it's own! How about the political rivalry on Manaan between the republic and empire. 1 of my favourites the freedom of the wookie slaves on kashyyk! The shadow lands vibes beats everything In KOTOR 2's Nar Shadaa. Both fantastic games but the thing that drives me to play the 1st ive the 2nd usually is knowing how cool and varied the planets I can explore in KOTOR 1 and the interesting story of the great hyperspace war and the rakata? race. I mean what about the gehordan side plot with the bounty hunters! That was a sick quest in KOTOR 1! Taris is a WAY better opening over KOTOR 2's peragus. Kotor 2 has lots of cool stuff in it's planets too but nowhere nesr as much or as brilliant. Onderon is boring, nar shadaa is cool but feels unfinished, korriban is amazing and creepy but too short, dantooine is really cool but also again feels really unfinished. My favourite part of the game is Dxunn super short but so cool seeing the mandalorian culture and what they do. I love the new show but I wish it took some inspiration from KOTOR' s mandalorians as they are sick. Overall Kotor 1 has a lot to offer that's this guy flat out didn't mention straight up bias review. Edit: let's not forget sunrays trial on manaan and the dantooine murder mystery and dantooine family feud! It was cool to do some stuff that felt like normal Jedi business in a video game!

[@GuchU17]

I remember just staring at my screen for like 10 minutes, mouth wide open, after discovering that I was Revan xP.

[@kuikyroje]

One of my fondest gaming memories, would have been around 2004 when I experienced that!

[@7xXSE7ENXx7]

good times

[@theloniouswolf6504]

I played it on my tablet and it's crazy cause I heard about the game so much that it ruined the moment when I found out I was revan almost so much that before no found out I already theorized that I was gonna turn out to be revan

[@datboipaulll7132]

Dude, when I found out it was the same thing for me. KOTOR was one of the first games I grew up with cause I was a star wars nerd at the time, and me and my brother would take turns playing it. The plot was so damn predictable that you are suppose to be Revan, yet going through the game the first time it doesn't seem to be what you think would happen. But like I was saying me and my brother were playing and he let me play since we were fighting Malak and as soon as that cutscene of Revan taking off the mask and turning out to be the character you played as, me and my brother were freaking the hell out. We couldn't believe it and it's a fun memory I have of me and my brother XD

[@dearleader2885]

kotor is the half life of star wars fans we all love it and were still waiting for kotor 3

[@deathrayman8074]

That's funny. Hohohoho.

[@FemboyRiley]

KOTOR remake is coming I know it’s been 5 years and you won’t see this but that’s awesome we’re getting a remake

[@Cyber1zed]

The problem with KOTOR 2 is that the different levels are empty. Many planets were just straight up boring to go through: Dxun, Peragus, Telos, etc. Kotor 1 was way more fun to play.

[@jakobrenner2230]

Revenge of Newton Peragus and Telos where the worst by far.

[@daveice20]

I played both games within a week of release and I didn't find either game to feel "empty" initially. It wasn't until years later, after playing next-gen bioware titles like Mass Effect/Dragon age, that I realized how "small" it felt.. Although, when talking of video games it's best to compare them to the same generation, if you start jumping about and comparing them to more modern games you will find issues with everything

[@AshersAesera]

Especially when you include the gap of technical specs; the power of hardware today and in the future will slowly dwarf the previous iterations. The power of the hardware today is why the games of this generation can have more fleshed out levels ... Can >.>

[@CrusaderLogan]

Dxun was awesome you take that back!

[@TechnoMinarchist]

That was part of the atmosphere though. You were meant to feel lonely.

[@ViccVegaa023]

Yes, Kotor 2 may have been darker and more thought provoking and arguably better written, but it was also an unfinished half game on release. So Kotor 2 not having a real ending when I played it back in the Xbox days is several huge strikes against it.

[@marklee1194]

KOTOR I: - Graphics - Art Style - Variety in setting and atmosphere KOTOR II: - Story - Gameplay - Ambience - Characters - Replay Value

[@berthein5476]

Kotor 1 was like this : " yeah is a good concept. " 6/10 ish game. like. i like the story, though its clunky as fuck. Kotor 2 tho...everything about gameplay combat, rpg system , progression in general. just blows it away. i recently, after like 10 years, replayed kotor 2 and it was soooo brilliant. and wanted to give kotor 1 a try again as well. but i just cant. could be the console port really kotor 1 was a proof of concept. kotor 2 was the perfected version.

[@astanley97]

Mark Lee imo those are perfect if you switch em

[@wardeni9603]

I really love both games, otherwise I prefer Kotor 1 slightly, but it's evened out because Kotor 2 tells you if all those pesky containers are empty or not. Oh, and Kotor 1 forgets to mention that you need a few computer spikes on the Star Forge... Kotor 2 is... how could I describe it... too empty? It feels like something's missing in the game. In Kotor 1 all the planets are full of life, but in Kotor 2 the locations are almost as empty as the Exile.

[@loonachan]

Strangely enough I played KOTOR 2 before KOTOR 1 because it was in bargain bin (it was the Xbox version), I'm not really sure if that warps my opinion either way. I always liked K2 more as a matter of story and complexity, but I ended up actually liking to play K1 more, and it's hard to articulate why. Mostly I think it comes down to charm. Each planet you visited not only had its own biome and feel, but it also had its own charm. On Manaan you learn of the different political struggle there, and you even get to be a junior detective and when it is time for the climactic story mission, the change in tone is stark and affecting. In relation, K2 just kinda feels like an endless slog on times, Telos and Nar Shadaa are just muted, charmless slogs that drag on too long. Onderon was always my favorite part of the game because it seemed to have similar intrigue and charm as the first game, but even that part felt more like grinding during the jungle chapter. Most of the gameplay felt like filler and grinding towards getting to the next cool Kreia or Visas conversation. Theme-wise, I always felt like the story only truly paid off if you played some kind of gray Jedi. So while yeah, the characters were better in K2, the story was better, it just seemed to lack an important hard-to-define aspect that K1 seemed to nail, which is why this debate continues to rage, I think. And I liked Mission/Zaalbar. She's unique in the sense that you don't see too many younger characters in these kinds of games, and it really helps mix things up thematically when you have a kid who is worrying about kid problems while all of this other stuff is going on. And it makes the dark side path at the end that much more grisly. Juhani felt like the only character that seemed unnecessary in K1, where I can give that title to G0T0, Bao-Dur, Disciple, and Hanharr (I had to look up Hanharr's name, that's how much impact he had).

[@ArvelDreth]

hentropy What made KotOR 2 feel crappy to play for me was the I could tell it was incomplete. The ending was weird and rushed and inconclusive. There were tons of cutscenes that lead to nowhere and afterwards everyone just acts like nothing happened. Lots of quests still in the log that could never be finished. I just felt like I was playing something that was half-baked and lazy in everywhere except dialogue and characters. And story, to some degree.

[@matthewlee4834]

hentropy Couldn't agree more

[@diesirae6114]

The ending at Malachor V is the one big downside of KOTOR 2. Even in the Restored Mod Project you see that they were probably overambitious and could not wrap really good together what they planned. The part who was "lost" before when the companions try to fight Kreia is even a bit cringey. But I also give them that the ending just cried for a 3rd part which never came...

[@phightme5407]

You're definitely right about Juhani. Completely "unnecessary" as the first time I played KOTOR 1 I killed her off lol. I didn't realize she could be a companion until I was watching a play through.

[@nex6939]

hentropy I played kotor 2 first too. I remember I was in a wheelchair back in 2nd grade because I messed my leg up bad and I wanted a game and my mom needed something too so she took me to Best Buy. She took me in and went to get whatever she needed but she got me a clerk. I told him I wanted a Star Wars game so he took me to the isle with the games and I don't remember if I noticed kotor II or if he did but it was the 1st game & the only game I looked at. I wanted it. I didn't know anything about the 1st game but this game felt special.

[@prophet0930]

for me its 2 definitely ... it has more depth to it .. imho

[@balder613]

+Kertland It absolutely does. Better/more mature writing, thought provoking story, Kreia, greatly improved mechanics, and a plot twist that's just as good as the first game. Not to mention your companions have actual depth and progression. KotOR was great, but I believe II was much better overall. And frankly, I believe it's better objectively so. Not even as an opinion. It just has a lot more to offer.

[@waismartialarts1]

If you love Kotor you need to check out aperions remake for kotor! It is a project that is still in development and needs support! What it is is a total remake of knights of the old republic in unreal engine for and I can tell you it is absolutely gorgeous, anyone who loves kotor should show support by following on twitter and helping spread the word. The more support they have the more likely this is to become a thing so lets do this!

[@thanekrios5175]

Balder The characters in the first KOTOR had depth and progression too. So yeah, that's your opinion. I prefer the first because it has more memorable sections for me.

[@user-rt4gv7es5p]

Progression in KOTOR1? Oh please, they do not. They have the lines of dialogue, unlocked in a narrow order, depending on your progression to the plot, then "their personal quest" kicks in "like Bastila's mom", and you solve it. That's it, nothing supernatural. You dont get to make them fall to the dark side, you dont get them to become a Jedi, and the dialogues themselves have no real variation to them, to change the point of the conversation, or to express a different opinion. KOTOR1 feels like rails when it comes to the conversations with the characters, when KOTOR2 has significant choices almost in every dialogue you have with anyone.

[@user-rt4gv7es5p]

Its extremely basic and require nothing but advancing the plot and talking to a person. You dont need to actually "build" their trust

[@KadurOrdo]

Best thing about Kotor 2: Influence and Dark/Light Side for Companions + deeper character development concerning the team.

[@iceviking8280]

Master speed + Master Flurry. ...and that’s game.

[@PapBenedek]

And lighting

[@rx0623]

Nice review. But Kotor 1 made me feel more like I was inside the universe.

[@anelbegic2780]

Well said, it's also my main complaint about Kotor 2, especially Tarris for me (amazing opening honetly). All the little touches like "(companion) look worried/want to speak with you" made the world more real and I didn't feel like I was under house arrest for anything below Nar shaada. Darker and more mature doesn't necesserly always mean better in the large scheme of things.

[@LordXehenniar]

I would agree with the review overall, but Kotor 1 is well remembered for a reason. Kotor 1 was polished, pretty, and engaging in a way that makes it the classic that it is. It had expansive planets to explore and felt much more like an open world game. It was bright and colorful and had fun, if ultimately somewhat cliche characters. You got to be the big hero (or bad guy) and you also had moments of major moral decisions. The twist is still one of the best ones out there, even though some predicted it (I did not). You really do feel like you are in a Star Wars universe. Manaan, Korriban, Kashyykk, Taris, and Tatooine are all memorable.I loved them all. Kotor 2 was buggy, dark, and very confusing to follow (Partly due to unfinished content but also because it was trying to convey a certain sense of being "lost" in a bigger conspiracy). As a Star Wars nerd, none of this was a problem for me because I read the backstory and played with the unfinished content mod, etc... But there are other issues. Mainly, Kotor 2 feels very linear, has a very slow intro that drags on for a while, and doesn't really bother itself with immersing you in "star wars". All of this is unfortunate because Kotor 2 has some of the best things in the series: Kreia, concepts about morality that Star Wars never explored before, and the aforementioned conspiracy that makes you feel very small and insignificant. Kreia and her monologues probably could count multiple times on the "Pro" side in favor of Kotor 2, because she is that good. I will always love Kotor 2, but Kotor 1 is objectively the better game overall.

[@mes0gots0its]

I definitely agree with this. At the end of the day both games have certain fantastic elements as well as certain huge flaws. It really comes down to whatever you personally value more in a game.

[@Jay-jj9gh]

David Patterson I agree with you except for the "linear" part, I feel that Kotor 2 provided you with a ton a freedom after the intro. in the end, Kotor 2 is my favorite, and is going down as one of my top video games of all time

[@Daniel-rz8cy]

Completely agree with this comment.

[@lorinctelkes1046]

a very balanced and well-established opinion. Totally agree with it!

[@darthnihilus7951]

KOTOR 1 has a long and drawn out intro as well, but that's actually one of the things that I like about both these games; you get accustomed to whatever planet your on, you get to know these places, at least if your like me and take your time going through side quests and looking around. Both these games have become some of my favorites of all time and I wish there could've been a third

[@lamebubblesflysohigh]

KOTOR 1 had good companions... Jolee Bindo for example

[@Batcena]

(I know that this is a one year old comment but I don't care) and as well as bast- wait hang on I gotta to be lectured about the dark side and how it's evil...

[@TrickyTalon23]

Also the meat bag slayer

[@loganjacobson7352]

@@TrickyTalon23 HK-47 has to be my favorite star wars character of all time. The light hearted sarcasm but incredibly sinister programming made you feel as though he could snap any moment and attack the player, but time and time again in both games HK proved his undying loyalty to his master(s). Although I suspect that revan was always HK-47s true master and he simply served the exile as a means of carrying out revans final order.

[@rollingon5566]

Jolee is my favourite from both games, but kreia, our zabrak friend and atton all raise great points and show the impact of the Mando wars in a much more interesting way that helps explore the Mando wars in a more in-depth way instead of "light good, dark bad"

[@IcyJuggernog]

Jolee teaching Revan that a Jedi should be able to love because Passion is different than love was awesome. Jolee's lessons kind of help frame the picture that there's a bigger understanding to the light and dark sides of the force than the narrow viewpoints of the Jedi. Playing KOTOR the first time really made me enjoy the praise of my companions as I learned to be selfless throughout the game. I went from casually extorting money out of poor questgivers to giving to them out of my own pocket. KOTOR2 is always praised as the 'blurred lines' game, which it def. it, but I think it is also done very well in this game. The inability of the Jedi to act swiftly when the Mandalorians invaded, the choices they make to win throughout the war (manaan) really did a good job of showing us the grey.

[@MizanQistina]

KotOR 1 game play is more stable, it is calculated perfectly by the devs. Means they already made the whole thing and calculate how the players will play making builds. The whole work fame for builds is good. Each feats and stat points are clear and limited, we have to be careful on where to spend them. It is not too long before getting the first lightsaber. Skills are important where we will miss an outcome because don't have the skill required. Economy does matter. Unique items are really unique KotOR 2 game play is a mess, the progression is unclear, there are a lot of feats we don't care much where to spend them. There are a lot of stat points in the end don't really make a difference. There are too many Force powers including plot powers we don't really use, it is too long before getting the first lightsaber. Skills are not really important other than creating stuff we can buy or found easily. Money isn't a problem. Unique items are everywhere and randomly appear.

[@NumbingDisasterAnon]

KotOR 1 is not perfectly calculated. The AI are pretty bad with simple things like pathing

[@nikolafeschiev3399]

I agree even if I preer kotor 2 half of your abilities there doesnt matter you either have force storm or not you either have 18 strenght or not and evrything else is just secondary

[@benjaminkemer6428]

To be fair, it got delayed from its originally planned 2002 release date to allow extra time for completion.

[@Daniel-rz8cy]

Completely agree

[@rudolphantler6309]

"There are too many Force powers including plot powers we don't really use [...]" Plot Powers as bad just because you don't use them much? Having simple streamlined content is not ALWAYS beneficial. It's an extra unique spice upon story that plot ability powers appear among the normal force powers. Some games have forgotten to do this, some still do it to this day. "it is too long before getting the first lightsaber" This is hardly a problem amidts the epic lectures of philosophy and blaster using companions! "Money isn't a problem." Is that a flaw or an advantage for you? Anyway, in an RPG you should rarely if ever be absolutely forced to spend tons of money to get something unique. What you find should suffice, and learning ways to find specific stuff free is more fun.

[@diannahimi7822]

I enjoyed Kotor 1 more, as it didn't feel as depressing and dark.. In Kotor 2 I felt alone, isolated and as you said even the colours and story portray that feeling. However nothing can beat the amazing Kreia. She, to this day remains one of my top characters ever in both games, literature and movies. To me she is what defines Kotor 2 and without her, I wouldn't enjoy it as much.. her voice acting was done phenomenally as well.

[@Kalleosini]

Says a lot that KOTOR 2 is better despite being rushed, would be nice to see a remaster of it. I mean kudos to the modders but their voice acting does stand out.

[@oxymrn7038]

Kotor 1 to me personally is a game I can play hours on end without getting burnt out. I've had to have played through the game at least 5 or 6 times. The story to me is just timeless and MOST of the characters have so much personality. (Sorry but Big Z was the only character I really didn't care for) The game really captures the Star Wars feel for me and I love it. Kotor 2 to me is just.....interesting. It wasn't a unpleasant experience but not what I was looking for. I only played through it once and I just didn't get that same feeling I got when I played Kotor 1 which kinda disappointed me at the time I played it. I honestly never really thought about giving it another shot but I'm thinking about revisiting it to see if my 18 year old mindset can enjoy it more than my 15 year old self did.

[@JusRed48]

KOTOR 1 is a more memorable experience for the first time through, but KOTOR 2 is the richer and more lasting one over time in my opinion.

[@Yuributts]

No brainer. KOTOR 2 is more mature, deep, and complex. If you like KOTOR 1 better fine, just admit that it's the simpler game. It's like the difference between Fallout 3 vs. Fallout New Vegas. NV clearly has the better story.

[@nerdSlayerstudioss]

Exactly, and it's a little frustrating when people can't even admit that much.

[@niallreid7664]

Yuributts While I do agree, you also have to realise that simplicity itself is not a bad thing in story telling. The clear objectives and recognisable villain gave the player sufficient motivation to carry out the story, and the twist played with a recognisable formula and turned the way the player viewed the storyline on its head. It also provided new companion interactions as the tried to digest the news. Overall pretty great stuff, and I enjoyed the simplicity of it. KOTOR 2 was a totally different beast and followed a different narrative. While I will admit to loving it more (its explanation of the force and the meditation on good and evil went on to define my love of SW), I wouldn't say that because it's darker and more gray in its handling of the Star Wars mythos doesn't make it objectively better. Really I think it comes down to taste. Thanks for reading, I'm not great at writing long opinion pieces.

[@libertyprime9891]

Not really, Fallout 3 has the better story for the main game, New Vegas has the better story for the expansions.

[@alexandrucioban2813]

Yuributts honestly for me KOTOR 1 will always be a lot better simply because of Revan and Malak, I mean I've grown far more attached to Revan as a tragic hero than I've ever felt for Metra Surik. it's a shame that they never made a KOTOR 3 about Revan and Surik's plight to kill the Emperor Vitate, or a back story to Revan and the Mandaloreian wars or their initial confrontation with the Emperor, and instead EA gave us an Old Republic MMORPG

[@Arctic022]

I prefer stock KotOR 1 over stock KotOR 2. Your comment of it being more simplistic is half true, to me. KotOR 1 is more the traditional tale of the Jedi saving the galaxy via grandeur, while KotOR 2 is more of a subterfuge thing. The former is more traditional Star Wars, and the latter is reminiscent of traditional Star Wars but distinctly different. I enjoy KotOR 2, and really don't care which game people prefer...but just because KotOR 2 has more mature themes doesn't mean they always work, and the unfinished product of stock KotOR 2 is less enjoyable as a result. Some of the story telling elements were a little ridiculous too, and the villains were a bit absurd in terms of their "immortality." I'm also not saying KotOR 1 was void of ridiculous narrative elements, but they felt a bit more immersion breaking at times in KotOR 2 in my personal experience.

[@bumgyuyoon]

unlike many people who played kotor 1 then kotor 2, I played kotor 2 then kotor 1. When I played kotor 2 the interaction between characters and how my actions could influence the NPCs and how my action could be influenced by the NPCs was something I had never experienced before in any other game. I bought kotor 1 expecting I would get the same type of experience but sadly I didnt get any. The main plot was okay it wasnt bad nor good but the interaction between characters and how my choice doesnt seem to matter that much made me loose interest in the game. I was so uninterested that during the great reveal of 'you are REVAN' I didnt even recognize that the character that unmasked was me. Also great video :)

[@colt4531]

interesting how our views of games change depending on what we played first, i for one have never liked the affection system in games, its just frustrates me as im more interested in gameplay then socializing/ gameplay, while i enjoy a good story i just find the influence annoying, but thats just me, i know i was pretty blown away from the twist at the middle of kotor 1 then i played kotor 2 and i think the level design, and the missions just felt really unintersting and killed it for me, i liked the villains but they couldnt win me over

[@bumgyuyoon]

just after I watched this video I started playing kotor 2 again and now I kinda agree that affection/influence system could be frustrating sometimes. I played LS and I was able to get a lot of the companions to open up and tell me their stories; however, when I tried playing DS companions gets mad and they shut all the dialogue options and I dont even get half of the story I could have gotten having high influence.

[@bobhill6561]

Colton Gauk you do realize you could just ignore the influence system you don't have to participate in it.

[@silentsmokeNIN]

Colton Gauk if you're playing any kotor game for gameplay reasons i feel bad for you. i mean, as far as gameplay goes, it was terrible even for its time. incredibly easy, tons of pointless mechanics, pseudo turn-based combat. if anything, the gameplay is the only thing about the game that makes it hard for me to pick it back up and beat it a 12th time lol. but to each their own man, i just thought the gameplay was slow and kinda boring after you fully understand its mechanics.

[@silentsmokeNIN]

bob hill as for you, how do you not participate in it? is it a secret option, or a mod i have to download? or did you mean to just ignore it, and not care about completing my parties questlines? because thats not acceptable lol

[@xd666xd]

KOTOR 2 is basically an expansion of KOTOR 1, unfortunately as it usually happens to Obsidian Entertainment, many things from KOTOR 2 were never finished by Obsidian(some of those were by the players); But both games are definitely better than SWTOR, and SWTOR never was and never will be KOTOR 3!

[@ec5018]

The expansions were good though

[@thetruth1025]

Oh.. boi! Swtor was just a very repetitive-boring-ass of a game in comparison with Kotor 1-2. And it was also very glitchy. 😒

[@popkhorne5372]

@@thetruth1025 yes, but personally i still find it very fun.

[@eriklundstrom1336]

I feel like you can play Kotor 2 through several times, but can really only play Kotor 1 through twice (one light and one dark). The complicated morality of Kotor 2 makes it a much more enjoyable game to play multiple times. The relationships you have with your companions is also a good mechanic to play through again. That being said some of the missions in Kotor 2 are so tedious -- like escaping Goto's Yatch, proving your worth on Dxun, or getting of Telos Station -- that make it sooo dull sometimes.

[@boxtank5288]

Erik Lundstrom Yup. As for relationships, Obsidian did far better than Bioware. Obsidian knew they sucked at romance so they just left subtle clues and let your mind do the rest, Bioware seems to force awkward interactions AND blatant good/bad options

[@comicsans1689]

You can get a solid 4 playthroughs out of KOTOR 1 at the minimum. Switching genders makes some changes to how characters act, and I think that's best illustrated with Carth. Carth is a much more interesting character when you play as fem Revan.

[@smocaine]

Kotor 2 is hands down the better game. Such a shame it never got finished properly.

[@the_kekromancer9779]

ETH-LAD Fortunately modders added content that was supposed to be n the game.

[@pride_mitochondria3921]

Seems obsidian always has shitty luck with the time they have to make games.

[@Kissamiess]

Mighty Mitochondria, Obsidian is a different beast now. They prefer to develop their own IPs so that nobody can rush them or tell what to do with them and they pay attention to fixing bugs. However, their new games mostly seem to lack the certain something they had in NWN 2 and KotOR 2 days. Maybe it's because Chris Avellone left, I'm not sure. Tyranny was still pretty interesting, though.

[@GenericUsername-qp1ww]

nah, KOTOR 1 is

[@HierophanticRose]

I loved the fact that as the exile you have a backstory already, and other npcs around refer to your history, really adds depth to your character and the colors your judgments throughout the game. However, Revan is arguably one of the most compelling characters of Star Wars, canon and legends included. So I enjoy both games for different reasons

[@taunttitan1714]

These two star wars game for me personally are the best star wars games ever made It goes for me 1 Kotor 1 and Kotor 2 2 Star wars battlefront 1 and 2 (Originals) 3 Star wars Jedi knight Jedi academy 4 Star wars republic commando 5 Star wars episode 3 game 6 Lego Star wars (All except TFA) 7 Star wars the force unleashed (PS2/Wii) Version 8 Star wars the force unleashed 2 (Wii) Version 9 Star wars The old republic 10 Star wars Galaxies 11 Star wars galaxy of heroes

[@yawningpheonix]

The darker style of KOTOR 2 was not only intentional, it was part of the story. All those planets were touched by intense conflict and were nexuses of the Malachor echo.

[@christiansantamaria7233]

Ok

[@Vanillastump]

The story for KOTOR was actually pretty good. If you don't know what's coming, like I didn't, all the flashbacks to conversations your character had, mentioning how "Jedi do not kill their prisoners" and "Yours is a special case", and all the other subtle hints. All being played in sequence, right before Malek tells you. That was a huge moment for me, and why the KOTOR series is my #1 video game series.

[@Marinealver]

Still KOTOR gave us the Star Wars prequels we always wanted, unlike the actual prequel episodes for Star Wars.

[@wotanskarl192]

Ding ding ding WINNER! Lordy this was the only thing that really kept my Star Wars interest going

[@DatGamingKid1]

they have the high ground!

[@WilliamStoneContentZone]

+Fulvic You Were Supposed To Bring Balance To The Memes Not Cast Them Into Dankness

[@gronndar]

Handmaiden romance prequel style: I Hate snow. Its soft, and when it melts, it wets your clothes.

[@comebackkid44723]

+William Stone Wait, wouldn`t casting them into dankness make them better lol

[@heydavedawson]

KOTOR is absolutely classic. Hits every mark of a D20 based RPG with themes from the classic AND prequel trilogy and more. KOTOR II is the entire philosophy of The Force flipped upside down. Instead of seeing things Light it Dark, it questions why? I loved KOTOR because the characters were more wholesome and uncomplicated much like in the original trilogy. Whereas KOTOR II made you question everyone and everything. It was like being truly alone in space; isolating however challenging and once you started to rise above, people noticed. I’d absolutely love to play it but after trying and epically failing as a kid, I’m almost scared to try again as an adult haha played through the first one a dozen times though.

[@cesarrivera8626]

In my opinion KOTOR 1 is the better game over all. I see a lot of people who believe the sequel is better but the graphics, protagonist, world detail, pretty much everything is a bit better in the original. The only thing that I think is better about KOTOR 2 is the uniqueness of the story which goes a long way but the pacing is still better in the original.

[@ninvusoogoar6098]

i remember when me and my wife first got kotor 1 and i made a bet with her saying " hey i bet your character is that robed person named revan. you know the person in asexual robes who is the 2nd character who cannot speak to people yet people understand what they say like our character"... to this day she still regret's taking the bet and losing that 50 dollars

[@ninvusoogoar6098]

basically to sum that up... the whole revan reveal shouldnt have fooled anyone. i mean you figure it out before u leave dantooine if u pay attention to the visions

[@ArvelDreth]

Wizdigo Yeah he clearly has a masculine V-shape to his torso.

[@LDub01031994]

Hell the reveal is kind of obvious when you first meet the Jedi masters on Dantooine. They argue is extremely direct terms when debating about training you and Vrook even says "and what if the Revan returns!?" I was young when I first played KOTOR1 so I didn't pay as much attention to that but these days I realize a ton of foreshadowing the Revan reveal

[@emeleoemon874]

True it's obvious, though not so obvious if you were a younger person seeing the reveal. When I was 10 years old, I just assumed that Revan died in the attack.

[@steveharrison4100]

You and your wife don't share your income? Are you even actually married?

[@CrimsonOptics]

I personally liked KOTOR 2 a lot more than KOTOR 1, mostly for the same reasons brought up in this video. It just felt like more was at stake, and the story was really immersive.

[@HeadyShitHead]

Love your channel, keep it up man!

[@JakobeOG]

Kotor 1 was one of my favorite childhood games. Waited so long to play kotor2 because I didn't want to ruin how special the 1st felt. Finally played it fully last week (dark side run) and it really started feeling unfinished about halfway through, and the ending was grueling to get through. Happily can say kotor1 is still my preferred game

[@ratchetandclankgame1]

I recently finished KOTOR 2 with TSLRCM 1.8.5 + Extended Enclave 2.3 and I just think the writing is so much better than the first game with the restored content. Both games however are to be cherished as some of the best Star Wars we've gotten (and are likely to get given Disney's occupation of the franchise).

[@ncupton]

KOTOR 2 destroys KOTOR with replay value. Once you know the plot twist for KOTOR isn't something you go back to unless you wanna know how the other side of the force plays. With KOTOR 2 you have different advanced classes to mess with.

[@marklee1194]

Indeed. KOTOR II is way more thought provoking than KOTOR I. When I play KOTOR I, sometimes I lose track and quit playing because the gameplay is too simple and familiar. On the other hand, KOTOR II gets more curious and compelling the more you play. It is as if the game is speaking to you directly. Also, unlike KOTOR I when we know the main character's name after the plot twist, KOTOR II at the time (2004-2005) left the protagonist's name as simply the "Jedi Exile." It was not until later in some other Star Wars novel which revealed the name of "Meetra Surik." I always thought the fact that the main character's name was unknown then helped many gamers to assume that role easily (similar to Doomguy).

[@AshersAesera]

Revan is not his real name, his birth name was never given. Revan was a name he took up sometime in the Mandalorian Wars when he vow'd to stop the Mandalorians after visiting Cathar. The Emperor just gave him the title of Darth. It's a little obvious that Revan isn't his real name though. There are many times when someone turns the dark side and takes up the Darth mantle that they get a sort of name change. Darth Vader wasn't Vader before he fell. KotOR II may be more thought provoking ... but if it's keeps provoking those same thoughts then are you learning from it? Kriea's themes don't really change on the second playthrough, and she can't really challenge your own personal questions you have for her. Finally, KotOR II did have 2nd classes of a sorts; Scout, Soldier, and Scoundrel into Jedi Knight, Jedi Consular, and a Jedi Sentinel. However, it's not a more direct link to the previous classes, and the change happens a lot earlier.

[@gronndar]

Can't go back to KOTOR 1 after playing the second one.

[@somzer]

Whether "Revan" was his real name or not doesn't matter. "Revan" was a known character, so when the name was revealed, many recognized it. However, the Exile's name wasn't revealed, not in the game, not elsewhere (at that time).

[@MrKosobi]

absolutely disagree. Kotor 1 is fun all the way, meanwhile kotor 2 has this godawful peragus, and then EVEN WORSE Telos to deal with, before the game really starts. The mere thought of having to replay these 2 long, boring and dull planets makes replaying the second kotor more of a chore than joy.

[@greenhead96]

This video makes me smile. Those were two of my favorite games of all time

[@RLow67]

I wish so badly that I could wipe my memory and replay both these games for the first time.

[@thomasethridge5559]

i hate to admit it but i agree. kotor 2 has a more conceptual, ideological veiw of the force. kotor 1 story can remind me of the original movies which is all good, but not mind blowing. i think the side missions in kotor 1 are better however.

[@NumbingDisasterAnon]

Side missions in 2 are superior. A lot of them cna actually go back onto your companions and change them, from unique dialogue and abilities, to outright changing their classes

[@LoneWolf-hl2wn]

Both amazing except for walking on the ocean floor in Manaan which takes forever. Worst part of Kotor 2 is the beginning when you have to escape the mining planet.

[@Aug__]

Hi NerdSlayer. I love your videos. (Especially the Kreia character analysis was great to watch.) And I mostly agree with your comparison here, but I have to say that Jolee Bindo needs to be mentioned since, while not nearly being in the level of Kreia in terms of depth, he provides some perspective into a neutral stance between light and dark. He is also genuinely troubled with the jedi order and his own personal reasons for following Revan. With also very humorous (though limited) dialogues. I just thought he deserved a special mention

[@nerdSlayerstudioss]

I am a fan of Jolee as well, Jolee is what we call "neutral good". He exhibits neutral like qualities, but focused on the "good". Kreia is a bit more complex because she also looks at what makes Sith Sith. So Avellone took Jolee, and essentially wrote a version that wasn't "good" in the traditional sense.

[@Bill_Stranix]

KOTOR 2 with the 'restored content' mod is on another level entirely. A much better game than the original.

[@christiansantamaria7233]

🧢

[@Robin-kp1nv]

KOTOR 1 is the best imo. KOTOR 2 felt rushed both gameplay wise and story wise. Felt like there was more exploration and time for sidequests in KOTOR 1 than KOTOR 2. Plus IMO Revan + Malak > Kreia/Nihilus/Sion even though they're cool as well.

[@thomasjefferson2813]

@@BriFiConnections the side quests on manaan were amazing

[@cryoladd8225]

Personally I feel like KotOR 1 was more memorable and focused. Having not played the games in 7-8 years, I still remember KotOR 1's main quests, side quests and side characters (like the bounty hunter Starkiller whom after a day of playing I beat in the arena at lvl 2 on "difficult" difficulty, or learning the sith oath which is a great way to get you to learn about your enemies and which might even convince your to join them in the end, instead of a granny just telling you about....things) KotOR 2's plot was loose and it tried to do too many things at once. For me it was not memorable at all with borderline empty and boring levels. I honestly can't remember a single thing from the game other than Kreia trying to jam philosophy into you and a green robe I always wore. KotOR 1 stuck with me as both a focused and well rounded game and a fun and challenging Star Wars experience

[@Matt-cz6ti]

KotOR 2 is the best Star Wars story ever told in a game that only works about half the time

[@watto7291]

I found myself not caring about a lot the characters in kotor 2. I didn’t find the exile’s character very interesting. I found the mystery of who your character is incredibly interesting. Before you find out you’re Revan, you most likely think you’re just a republic soldier who suffered a head injury, which makes the plot twist so powerful and awesome. Kotor 2 has always felt kinda boring to play, and in my eyes it doesn’t come close to kotor 1. It’s a shame the remake mod got the cease and desist. Would have been very fun to play. Tbf at least you can play Kotor 2 in HD where as you need to use dodgy fixes to play kotor 1 in HD. Don’t know why they didn’t update KOTOR 1

[@lukeshaw4287]

Kotor 1 was my favorite easily for 10 years. I replayed one recently, and I’m in the process of playing kotor 2 again. I really took my time on kotor and I’m taking my time on kotor 2 and exploring everything possible. I never thought it was possible but I love kotor 2 even more than kotor now. The depth and thought provocation of kotor 2 is amazing and stimulating.

[@kollectiononthetrak9342]

Dude absolutely same here! KOTOR 2 has grown on me for sure

[@BSingh18]

I made the mistake of playing Kotor 2 before 1 because it was cheaper in the store. This meant that the whole Revan thing was spoiled before I played this first game. Taking that aside, I enjoyed Kotor II far more. A few points that I don't think you mentioned (I apologise if you did): - You said how there was a third neutral way to play the game. To expand upon that- One of the bonuses to being heavily light/dark was that you received stat bonuses which increased as you gained alignment points which encouraged favoring one alignment over the other. In kotor ii, if I remember correctly you received stats for being neutral aswell. - in II, your ls/ds alignment influenced a companion you received whether it was Mira or Hanharr. - For II you mentioned you could train characters in the force, through your dialogue you could also turn them light or dark as well by embracing or learning from different aspects of their backstory. Anyway great review, I just subbed and I hope your channel does well!

[@jinmatsu897]

I love these 2 games so much I swear, the Nostalgia I miss this seriously if only I could play this for the first time again...and KOTOR 2 had that eerie atmosphere I absolutely loved it

[@kingerer1]

Thank you for making this video

[@AllisterH]

I;ve always seen it like this... KOTOR1 is by far a better STAR WARS game. As you mention, the plot is simpler with a twist and the colours are similarly less muted. KOTOR2 is a better story that uses the backdrop of the Star Wars universe.

[@johnolson9793]

I was a kid when I first played kotor 1 and was completely shocked when it’s revealed you were Revan the entire time.. anyone else shocked at the time or just me?

[@illumi9044]

I was more shocked than Vader being Lukes father

[@aloneinmidnight]

i was a kid too but i was watching my dad play it, and i still think back on it today as the defining star wars moment for me... i don't remember my reaction to the darth vader reveal but i DO remember my reaction to you being DARTH REVAN and for that kotor 1 is still my favourite lol

[@greysenpurdy2089]

I thought this was a great in-depth analysis of the 2 games, and raised some important points I had not previously considered.

[@LikeElmo]

Everything in KotOR II is so dark and grumpy, especially music. First game just gives a better vibe.

[@LegendaryGoetz]

Mateusz Olek you described that really well! I oddly enough crave and have more of a shift to KOTOR 2, than 1. Don’t get me wrong, I love both games, but something about that grumpy style of maps/music/characters makes me awe over the game more. Kotor 1 had an amazing starting game, and it got more and more boring. Kotor 2 was boring and dull off the start, but got deep towards the end. (From my exaggerated point of view) Again both games were fun start to finish

[@nathang6376]

@@LegendaryGoetz Agreed, I absolutely fell in love with the quiet emptiness that was the sub level of the Jedi Enclave.

[@popkhorne5372]

And thats precisely why i like 2 better.

[@tromusic7815]

Finished KOTOR1 on mobile & now I'm waiting for 2

[@christianjadot4459]

I am going to download it tonight!

[@AFGsultanZ]

Came to this video because of that. I played finished the first one four years ago, and now finally the second one is coming on Dec. 18.

[@tromusic7815]

@@AFGsultanZ Goddamn its been forever lol

[@AFGsultanZ]

@@tromusic7815 Haha I remembered waiting and hoping the second one would arrive very soon when I finished the first game. It’s been four year and here we are. Also Star Wars being in a much better shape now. This game on mobile will be $15 I tho I think. But I guess it’s worth it haha.

[@jonsnow2689]

I used to be a Jedi...then I took plasma mine to the knee.

[@primeirrational]

I absolutely love both of these

[@jimbeaux89]

This was my first video of yours, and during the outro, I could’ve swore you said “nurse layer out” lol like, what... Anyway, loved the breakdown man!

[@theholybrute7252]

I like them both but I gave it to KOTOR 1 because of KOTOR 2's ending.

[@Kanightley]

The robes weren't as good in Kotor 2. I know they were cloaked robes instead of the robe-less ones we Obi Wan and Anikan fought each other in, but they were poorly doe in my opinion. It felt like I was wearing a Harry Potter robe and not a jedi robe, which is really silly

[@KhiemNguyen-ly1wz]

Kotor 2 robes are fucking awesome. Much better than the first one. Don’t know what you’re on about

[@rymon8460]

@@KhiemNguyen-ly1wz right??? Lol I love Kotor 1 but the robes look like they're painted on

[@KhiemNguyen-ly1wz]

@@rymon8460 They're not even proper robes in the first one. They look like weird dress thingy that sticks onto your body. Kotor 2 robes are proper robes that flow when you move and everything making you look like a proper fucking badass Jedi that you are

[@rymon8460]

@@KhiemNguyen-ly1wz Very true

[@Inali097]

Kotor 2’s intro is an agonizing experience. I’m enjoying the game 20 hrs in, but for some reason the first outfit I found promptly vanished, leaving me naked fighting droids and Sith assassins for 5 hours. Took another 7 hours to figure out how to get a lightsaber so my finesse:lightsaber perk would work and my high-dex melee character was any good. Talk about a slow burn. Took until halfway through the damn game to enjoy combat

[@CatWearingglasses]

Nice video man, inspired me to play kotor 2 again :)

[@sbam4881]

KotOR 2 has an interesting story but KotOR 1 is a better game design. Let's look at the first 5-10 hours of game-play (essentially the first planet/station). As an RPG, both games had to incorporate almost identical design objectives for this phase: 1. Be a soft tutorial on the mechanics, interactions and combat 2. Establish certain world concepts (e.g. Why TF doesn't a ligthsaber slice clean through a vibroblade? Oh because of this) 3. Give us the mentor NPC for the first few objectives (Carth/Kreah respectively) 4. Give us a reason to leave the place (i.e. start the main quest) 5. Give us a means of transportation for the rest of the game (Ebon Hawk in both games) _6. Give us something to do while we collect/learn items 1-5)_ So lets examine how each game handled (6). Now its been a very long time since I've played but from what I remember, in K2, I spent 90% of the time killing similar mechanical spiders in similar looking grey corridors for the duration of phase 1 (so much so that I do remember that the constant repetitive kink, kink sound of my metal blade hitting a metal spider leg was beginning to get on my nerves). Meanwhile, in K1 during the same intro phase I had: participated and won a bike race, rescued a Jedi, resolved a gang war, cured a disease, led some folks into a "worker's Paradise," became a Pazaak card champ, be a dance partner for a Twilek for her job interview and more. As a game, K1 wins hands down imo.

[@noahfessenden6478]

Even with TSLRCM, I still feel both games are the same quality of greatness. I love both equally for what they do both similarly and differently.

[@renejrhodes88]

I like your analysis. One thing you didn't mention however is what Kotor I has over Kotor II, which is the story of redemption, amplified in your relation with Bastilla and somewhat with Carth. Besides the original Films this is the first and imo most elegant presentation of that tale. This is due to story, intention etc. missing in Kotor II. Yes, you get to redeem Visas and train your comanions in the ways of the force, but this is much more subtle.

[@huckleberry602]

Nicely done.

[@gaspenpayne6755]

I don't really know why, i played the hell out of Kotor 1 but i can't seem to get invested in kotor 2.

[@anantdhyani2882]

same , i invested so much time in kotor 1 doing all the side missions etc and pace seemed perfect whereas I couldnt move over the first act in kotor 2.

[@kylerohan3841]

I couldn’t get into KOTOR 2 but as soon as you do the duplicate lightsaber glitch it gets really rewarding. Just get past Peragus, Telos, and Dantooine and head to Onderon bc the pace moves very quickly if you bang out Onderon, Nar Shaddaa, and Korriban. It’s awesome you just have to give it a chance.

[@axelander9397]

I thought that the villains (except Kreia) of Kotor II were kind of dumb because of their powers and the explanation for them. The one destroys whole planets even though he is a single person, because he got too hungry and the other couldn't die because of his rage. Malak (and at first Revan) on the other hand needed the starforge to be a serious threat to the republic. Imho it is better if the villain needs a deathstar to destroy a planet or a fleet (looking at you EU Sidious) otherwise it just gets silly.

[@boxtank5288]

Axelander that is kind of the point, the two Sith Lords are both examples of why the dark side is not the be-all end-all. Also an example of what happens when you rely way too much on the force, because of this reliance one of them became a wound in the force and thus was forced to keep feeding lest he Fade Away and die, even though if he were to Devour the Galaxy he would die anyway, the other let the force sustain his life and he is basically nothing but scar tissue and fragments of bone, living in constant agony. This is the tragedy of Darth Nihilus and Darth Sion

[@boogernights1]

I liked KOTOR 2 a little better for pretty much ever reason stated in the video. 2 just had a more lasting appeal over time than 1 had. I felt myself wanting to go back and play 2 more than 1 because I felt it's story and narrative picking at my brain more than 1.

[@Gr33kChief]

Good video my man, wish it was a bit longer though but thats ok!

[@songarakram]

Kotor 1 was just so much more fun than Kotor 2 in my opinion. Everything in Kotor 2 felt like a chore, and I just can't bring myself to do Peragus or Telos one more time, let alone Nar Shadda's excessive backtracking, Korriban's lifelessness, or just the absolute grindfest that was Malachor. Half the time I forgot what I was supposed to be doing in Kotor 2, I had to keep reminding myself that I was looking for Jedi Masters for some reason. I wont say that Taris was awesome, but the Endar Spire was such a tidier tutorial level than Peragus, and Telos was just so god damn boring. Do you help save the planet's ecosystem? or do you "mwa ha ha money!" The game talked about how not everything was black and white, but the choices you made clearly were. There was no benefit to taking a middle road, as you got major stat bonuses for being 100% light or dark. On top of that, the game is almost impossible to beat as a Light Consular/Jedi Master, as Traya is immune to force powers that aren't Force Crush. Even on the easiest difficulty, unless you run away and take on the floating lightsabers one at a time, you're just fucked.

[@IAssassinII]

That's about how I feel now. When it first came out I enjoyed KOTOR II more, but KOTOR I has provided me with the greatest number of playthroughs over time.

[@bengerber4542]

The tutorial level in kotor 2 was so horrendus there are many mods to mod it out, yes. For me, kotor 1 was literally unplayable because of crashing bugs, so I don't know what the reviewer was on about there. There were actually 3 main areas to go in conversations in kotor 2 which were "Your happiness is all i need", "that'll be 4000 credits," and "you can die too." And while there was some dumb wandering, everything you did felt more important to yourself rather than "hur dur i'm already a super important character so everything works out" mentality that comes with and almost "chosen one"-like complex. Trying to play dark, light, and neutral all actually feel rewarding to some degree. There absolutely were ridiculous benefits to going fully one way, but there were also huge lightsaber benefits to going neutral with the personalized crystal. The key to beating with a light side jedi masters are resisting her back and lightsaber finesse feats. It takes much longer, and it is indeed a fault, but it is very doable. The biggest problem is that you can get stuck in a stalemate of healing/resisting, and on difficult, it becomes a very difficult stalemate.

[@matthewnakhla]

kotor 2 is my favorite game. yes i do always choose consular class, most of the time i choose jedi master. yes i have trouble with kreia, but i find i always have trouble with her no matter what class or side of the force i choose.

[@SloopLow]

Kotor 2 was good but I haven't been able to play it for a long time because it wouldn't work on my computer. I had finished Kotor 1 twice before I got 2 to work, and I found myself back at the beginning on the hell called peragus. Even if I did want to finish it, I have always had trouble beating kreia later and didn't want to do any modding to fix the game because after I fixed it, Kotor 2 was still very unstable. I'm going Kotor 1 because 2 is slow to start and 1 actually works right for me.

[@gastoncastrovivoda5211]

I don't know what you guys are talking about, my full light side level 29 Consular/Master OBLITERATED Kreia in like 2 minutes, it wasn't even fun. Force Enlightenment + Stasis Field + Master Flurry and she never stood a chance. Other than that I agree that KOTOR 2 was by far worse than 1, I've literally just finished it a few minutes ago and was really disappointed. The story was all over the place, I didn't care at all about my companions except for Canderous, HK-47 and T3-M4 (in fact more than once I wondered "Why would this person want to travel with me? And why do I allow it? Can't I kick them off the Hawk?), Nihilus and Sion felt like they came out of some angsty teen's fanfiction, and, last but not least, Kreia... I won't deny she was the most (only) interesting character in the game, and that her philosophy about the Jedi and the Sith was interesting, but I saw her betrayal coming fro the very first interaction with her, and when her plan to "kill the force" was revealed she went from "Cryptic, mysterious and interesting" to just another angsty Sith.

[@matthewlee4834]

Good comparison video. I like the original better

[@Ecselsiour]

There's always one :)

[@GladdyTanks]

I love both but you did a great job of breaking it down. Off hand before I watched the video I probably would have said Kotor 1. Then you got me thinking about how many times Ive replayed Kotor 2 vs. 1. And I always replay 2.

[@sdmurphy315]

Kotor 1 had a game breaking bug. It was on Dantooine if you after solving the murder mystery if you left the area a certain way you'd run into three Kath hounds and before you get to them the game would break as soon as you step forward and it would make you stuck and then the game crashes. You would have to load the game from an old save because the auto save would put you in the same state, if you moved the game would lock you in place.

[@DrachenYT]

It's strange to say the least to find someone who believes the absolute reverse of what I do. It has always been my opinion that KOTOR has the best story/characters with KOTOR II the best gameplay/aesthetic diversity. You made a fairly good case for most everything, and I disagree with but respect most of it. However, out of your discussion, by far the most irritatingly false argument point you made was that the KOTOR I characters were dull or borderline one-dimensional. Not liking a character is of course subjective, and I don't fault you for that, but attacking their relevance and personality is a matter of objectivity you ignored. You have to take into account more than just your experience with them on Taris or their origin planet. Delving deeper into the dialogue (some of which is restored through mods, a problem KOTOR II is also guilty of), you begin to flesh out these characters. Bastila moves from the bitchy superior to a redeemed lover (empowered righthand). Carth moves from the loyal soldier to the haunted widower. Juhani even made some changes, though more easily could have been done (rip the dream of Catharr lore). Others such as Canderous or Jolee may have remained along one archetype, but their unique experiences and personal attitudes allows that sort of development. And of course, it's not to say that KOTOR II didn't have these character develops either, they sure did (especially with Atton, unf

[@nerdSlayerstudioss]

It's absolutely opinion, that's sort of what this sort of video is about. However I have been hard pressed to find people who liked Carth. And Bastila becomes better in SWTOR and the lore after, but she was one of the biggest points of irony in the series. Prim and perfect and yet falls to the darkside. But when you want to compare characters of the games, Kreia is better than all of the characters in KOTOR 1 combined. Just based on sheer complexity and depth alone. And then you have Atton, who is an upgrade to Carth. And HK-47 and Canderous are both better versions in KOTOR 2 (they are more developed and "mature"). The reason KOTOR 1s twist doesn't bother me, even if it is predictable. Is because they did it in a way that had more intrigue, like how you assume Bastila defeats Revan when in honesty Revan is turned on by Malak BEFORE he is even captured. KOTOR 2 doesn't try to hide the fact that Kreia is not a good character, you can learn this very early on by her ideologies and her past history (she was a sith lord and admits it). Like Kreia says at the end, there is no great reveal at the end....just what is. KOTOR 2 goes beyond just "Good Vs Evil" and "Kill the bad guys". The game has far more depth than KOTOR 1s muted storyline. What big lesson did you learn in KOTOR 1? What did it really make you think? That the good guys win in the end? That sith turn on each other? We knew all of that already. The games aren't fraternal twins at all. KOTOR 1 is the little brother, fun but predictable. While KOTOR 2 is the older sage, sometimes pointlessly cryptic but at the end of the day makes you really think.

[@DrachenYT]

I don't disagree at all about Kreia being superior, but I don't think even she alone is enough to carry the entire game. Atton being an upgrade to Carth is even then debatable but I wouldn't disregard that. He's also a bit stereotypical with his roguish and immature-yet-seemingly-reliable demeanor. You can easily pick out flaws in either character. I don't see the "upgrade" that you do, rather just two, completely different secondary male protagonists. Still not sure how you can continue to degrade KOTOR's story. Having a more darker theme doesn't make you the better game, nor any less predictable. That's actually a bit cliche itself in that thinking something needs to be more serious or gloomy in order to beat something that may be more structured and focused, which KOTOR I was. I don't understand what exactly was supposed to spur me to think in KOTOR II other than Kreia's sage teachings, again, something that cannot carry an entire game or storyline. I suppose it's an issue of literary ideology, then. Each story has its own goals and methods, if you want to stretch it to KOTOR being an epic of adventure and KOTOR II a dialogue of philosophy. A story's purpose doesn't necessarily* make it better, again showing how they are complements. You may not, as it seems, like more structured and light-hearted stories. That's fine, but it doesn't make it worse. Not every story has to make you think and ponder life and wonder why you get up in the morning and discuss what jam you put on your toast. KOTOR I succeeded well in being a story centered around a given character's history, actions, and adventures, highlighting a portion of the Star Wars universe's history. What you could take from it are lessons on identity, responsibility, and power, given how all three of those have shaped Revan's volatile destiny. I guess we'll have to disagree. For an aside, in my anecdotal experience, a lot of folks have actually liked Carth. As I mentioned, getting past his bitchy state reveals a deeper character. You can add me to your nearly empty list, I guess. P:

[@nerdSlayerstudioss]

If you like Carth by all means, like Carth. I think he is one of the most boring characters in the Star Wars universe. "We need to talk." "I don't want to talk about it." Why are you being mean to me when I am the one being short with you because you don't know my dark sad secrets!?! That's how Carth is remembered to me. Atton has more depth because he actually has a soft side, is actually funny (and doesn't come off like someones dad, which Carth does with mission ad-nauseum), but still has a darker nature about him. He's very much a darker version of Han Solo. Carth is NOT enjoyable, opinion is opinion...but explain to me how he is fun/enjoyable in anyway? No comic relief, acts awkwardly like peoples Dads, wants to talk to you about things then doesn't want to talk about them (when the going gets rough), and he's about as straight a shooter as it gets so he has no complexity to his character. He's a loyalist to the Republic, despite any revelations he encounters. I have never once degraded the story, that's your opinion of me simply liking KOTOR 2 more. KOTOR 1 having a simple story, this is a fact. Me saying that doesn't mean I dislike it, it's good for what it is. Uhhh...KOTOR 2 delves into the Mandalorian War and Jedi Civil War more than KOTOR 1, which is DURING the Jedi Civil war. KOTOR 2 talks about the horrors of the wars, the remains of people who went through them, the failing of the absolute truths known as the force or Jedi Council, and how it dissects traditional morality in a star wars setting. If you didn't pick up on those, you either weren't looking or didn't care to. I don't mind structured and light-hearted stories, I like the Zelda franchise. However, if I compared Zelda to Metal Gear Solid the story would be the comparison of a pebble and a room full of pebbles in depth. KOTOR 1 was a traditional star wars story, there is nothing wrong with that. It was well received, and fairly palatable. However, I dislike the Star Wars stories being told over and over (I have read 50+ books in the EU) to where they all seem to be the same. Character loses memory, goes on journey to defeat the evil people. Damsel in distress, falls in love. The scene with the council in KOTOR 1 is literally a copy of Anakin and his scene with the council. www.strawpoll.me/5443320/r Carth was not even top 5. www.strawpoll.me/5443375/r Meanwhile Atton is second on the list. Objectively (based on that suvery) Atton is an upgrade to fans of the game. I mentioned why above I thought his character in terms of depth was better too. Unfortunately I can't find a bigger survey, but I used to be a frequent poster on the Lucas Arts Forums and Obsidian ENT forums and I don't remember anyone ever saying Atton was a worse character than Carth. Frankly most people hated Carth (save for a few fan girls I knew). The biggest "revelation" Carth has near the end is knowing you are Revan and being fine with it. He doesn't show any deeper character...we already knew he loved his family and the Republic. We knew he was a do-gooder. We knew he hated Saul, and wanted revenge. I fail to see how any of those reveals showed a deeper character.

[@Reimastered]

Drachen You can't turn dark followers to light or light followers to dark in KOTOR 1

[@hybrisedhome3184]

Zoe you can

[@vMatzG]

I've played both games like 30 times each. i Will say KOTOR 2 is a highly improved game. I still prefer the story in Kotor 1, Kotor 2 is very depressing..

[@briansheehan3430]

After playing them both back to back again, it's honestly really hard to say...KOTOR is fantastic for anyone looking for classic Star Wars. The planets are all very engaging, I even enjoyed Taris.The story isn't very original, but it works.The characters are all very unique in that speaking with them reveals more about their back story and eventually opens up a side quest for each of them (Carth's Sith son, Mission's piece of shit brother, Canderous being challenged by his former comrade Jagi).The main antagonist was what you would expect. Malak was the typical "I will rule the galaxy, nobody can stop me" Sith Lord, but he was a good villain, and killing him at the end, getting him to admit that he is "nothing," was satisfying.The game is very bright and light-hearted, but its darker moments are often overlooked (the Rakgouls, manipulating the families on Dantooine to wipe each other out, the insane Selkath, the screams of torture as you wander the Sith Academy. Not including, of course, the Dark Side ending, which is darker than ANYTHING in KOTOR II). KOTOR is very well balanced, while KOTOR II seems to always be gloomy and depressing. The only thing I don't like about KOTOR is the LS/DS system. Almost all of the Dark Side choices make you feel like less of a corrupted Jedi and more like someone about to kick a puppy, and just an all around douche for the sake of being a douche.The game pretty much encourages a Light Side playthrough, though it would have been cool to be able to be more manipulative with the Dark Side choices (more akin to the aforementioned playing the Sandral and Matale families against each other) But even though the game encourages (or seems to encourage) a LS playthrough, the DS ending feels more satisfying. The Jedi Council wiped your memory and used you, the great warrior Revan who was respected and feared across the galaxy, against your own followers who loyally battled under your banner first against the Mandalorians and then against the Republic and the Jedi. But damn, I felt worse about betraying Jolee (and Juhani, I guess) than I did about making Zaalbar kill Mission, and DS Bastila is just, well, an annoying bitch.. But damn, rule over an Empire with your own unstoppable fleet as the Dark Lord reborn, or get some little cross pinned to your chest and have the Jedi thank you for staying on their leash...I like the class system too, I personally can't play any other build but Soldier/Guardian. Having no offensive Force powers and instead using the Force for physical buffs, slapping on two lightsabers and running through everything like a hot knife through butter with master flurry. The fun of it definitely outweighs the repetition. KOTOR II stands out in that it doesn't "feel" like conventional Star Wars. It's more mature and in-depth with a more philosophical perspective on the Force, and lessons from Kreia that I find applicable to real life (all life finds meaning through conflict). Even though the Exile is canonically female, a male playthrough arguably makes more sense (Atris's love for you and jealously of Brianna, who only joins a male Surik, leading to the former's fall to the Dark Side, for one.) The gameplay is better with the different saber forms, being able to set Kreia as a support character so I don't have to buff myself up, and the different animations of flurry (though I have to say I dislike the "behind the back" motion.)The LS/DS choices feel a little more fleshed out (as would be expected) and I also like the design of the robes better, even if there are no hooded ones...You don't get any side quests from speaking to your companions, but you gain influence and can train some to be Jedi/Dark Jedi, which is cool. I never really care about training anyone but Brianna though, and as a DS player it's hard to gain influence with her, but satisfying when it happens. I like how you actually have a mentor throughout the game, whereas KOTOR is just "here's your lightsaber now go do stuff," and speaking of which, I also like how you have to gather the different parts to build your lightsaber. I didn't mind going through the first half of the game with my Sith War Sword.The advanced class system is another plus for me, Jedi Guardian/Sith Marauder (Jedi Weaponmaster) is a powerhouse, though in my first playthrough I went Guardian/Sith Lord and by the end game I didn't even need a lightsaber. The only thing I don't like about KOTOR II is that there is no benefit to being a grey character, which is a theme that the game itself heavily implies. No stat bonus, no advanced class. Just the feeling that you're playing the game the right way... But no option to embrace Kreia's teachings...Throughout the game you're told about how much your choices matter, but no matter what you choose it seems things play out the same way. You fight the Sith Triumvirate while learning next to nothing about 2/3rd of it. You either kill the Jedi Masters or Kreia does. You train your companions to be Jedi only to not be able to bring them along in the end before the final confrontation, clearing out the entire Trayus Academy by yourself.Another thing that bugged me about KOTOR II was the beginning on Paragus. I actually like Paragus, my issue is with the fact that you can just destroy consoles to open the doors.. Who wants to even bother with looking through the miner logs and data recordings, which I actually thought was very clever, when you can just literally "destroy console to open door?" It's bad enough that Paragus is already about 2 hours long, but going and trying to do things the "intelligent" way just makes it drag on longer. It'd be different, and better, if there was no "smash console" option.The game is the opposite of the original in that LS/DS choices feel like they matter throughout the game, but do nothing to affect how it ends. KOTOR's DS ending makes someone "holy shit, that was insane." KOTOR II's DS ending (and LS ending for that matter) makes someone say "is that it?"The Traya reveal was predictable, and didn't surprise me at all in my first playthrough, whereas I was completely shocked by the Revan reveal, which still stands today as the greatest twist in gaming history, in my opinion. All in all I love them both, but I think I have to say that I like the original KOTOR better.