A Look Back At: KOTOR 2 (In-Depth Commentary/Analysis)

An in-depth review and analysis done on Kotor 2, my favorite Star Wars games of all time. This game (with new steam support, and widescreen support) cost $9.99. PLEASE buy it, it will be one of the best purchases you have ever made (and I don't get a dime for saying this).
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Follow my twitter. www.twitter/nerdslayerg
For discussions on this game, check out places like Obsidians forums, the kotor reddit /r/kotor, and Deadly Stream boards.
Credit to Get Daved for footage of the Female Canon Exile. Feel free to watch his playthroughs if you don't want to play the game yourself!
/ @getdaved
This is the interview with Chris Avellone I referenced.
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Here is the TSL Restoration Mod and M4/78 Mod. Credit to the team at Deadly Stream who made this amazing mod.
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Credit to Obsidian ENT who made this beautiful game.
www.obsidian.net/

[@Creelien]

I've always waited for a moment when HK-47 kills someone then says: [Obvious Lie] Master, I didn't do this! XD

[@rumor-936]

Creelien Does he actually say that in any of the kotor games? XD

[@wolfman6489]

LOL that would be fucking amazing. XD

[@FirstLast-fr4hb]

I think he said something similar to that at some point.

[@99thJediWarrior]

The Mandalorian Wars were just as Kreia called them: a cover-up for another war, one of conversion. If you think about it, the Clone Wars repeated the Mandalorian Wars again.

[@darthnihilus7951]

I already realized that there were two mandolorian wars, if you think about it, but holy shit I didn't even realize that they were also scams for a more sinister plot. Oh my god, how are KOTOR 1 and 2 this fucking good, yet also seem criminally undderated? People just talk about how the original trilogy is the best of star wars, yet this fire, this absolute butter makes all the movies look generic and boring as all hell; except for Revenge of The Sith

[@99thJediWarrior]

@@darthnihilus7951 Say what you will about the Prequels, but they were all better than most of what Disney is doing with Star Wars. The Prequels had a well-thought-out plot attached to them, even if the execution wasn't perfect up until Revenge of the Sith.

[@darthnihilus7951]

@@99thJediWarrior uh, I actually love the prequels, especially Revenge of the Sith, I just think that Kotor is the best thing that has ever come out from Star Wars

[@deathrayman8074]

@@darthnihilus7951 Another person who likes the prequels! :)

[@InsideAssassin2]

You could even call the clone wars the second mandalorian wars seeing as the clones are clones of a mandalorian

[@Snice666]

I'm quite sure that there is no game or film within the Star Wars franchise that quite gets what the force actually is like Kotor II.

[@fuzzydunlop7928]

Fuck what George Lucas wanted - it was outdated by the time this game came along. Because George Lucas ISN'T a fucking hack who ruined the prequels. This game injected much needed nuance to the force - something the FIRST game had dabbled with, without committing to, it is an infinitely superior concept of 'The Force' (keep in mind KOTOR 2 is way more vague than people remember, for some reason, on this topic), it HAD to be because the outdated concept wouldn't have lent itself to a good, enriching and innovative video game experience. It NEEDED the nuance, and if that rubs you the wrong way, then keep in mind that the game is actually more vague about this than one might think. People take what Kreia said and twist it to be empirical - as if she's just explaining how the world really works, scientifically - when in fact she's only talking about her mindset, the way SHE views the galaxy, and the force, etc. The game takes the normative approach, but only through the virtue of a character that is inherently skewed and flawed and unreliable and THAT is who informs us of these things - someone we increasingly learn NOT to trust as the narrative develops, and who we likely didn't much trust to begin with. Therefore, the Force by the end of the game is whatever the players wish it to be - which is what ought to be the FORCE in its totality of explanation - up to interpretation. Don't know why you folks are so keen to follow the word of the fuckface that gave us "midi-chlorians" - I'll take the KOTOR alternative, thank you very much.

[@ViolenVaymire]

Thank you fuzzy. Its refreshing to see some less narrow minded star wars fans. There is validity in Starwars being portrayed with a now cartoon'esk take on the force/good and evil, That is the original design Gorge Lucas made. However I think the only reason That had any success was as you said, The concept, While compelling at the time, it is very outdated now. Some just don't want to ever see things changed for any reason. Normally a byproduct of old age, You start to realize that the world is passing you by, For better or for worse. This sentiment, Is very understandably controlling.

[@fuzzydunlop7928]

I just don't understand why people would fight tooth and nail to adhere to George Lucas' original interpretation of the force, when by the time of the prequels he himself was altering this conception. I mean, at some level of the creative process he would've had to be informed of the KOTOR games and what they were trying to do - and on some level sign off on that interpretation - and at the end of the day that's what it is, an interpretation that - unlike the prequels and the midi-chlorians and all of that malarkey - never empirically says "this is The Force, this is the way this universe works." I just don't understand the people who are arguing on the side of midi-chlorians and arguing on the side of an inferior, more narrowed, conceptualization. What's the point, y'know? At the end of the day, there is no be-all-end-all, 'canon' as a concept for star wars is laughable. Disney only decides what's 'canon' when there is some financial gain involved in it so it's very easy for myself to just disregard what they say entirely. At the end of the day my personal headcanon is much more interesting and unlike a lot of people I'm not about to say that it's 'definitive' - just my personal interpretation.

[@TPKProductions]

Fuzzy Dunlop Screw what Lucas said? The man mad Star Wars haha. And imo he didn’t ruined the prequels. Yes there were bad parts and bad cgi but there also tons of new and cool things, and so much more amazing things added to the Star Wars universe, unlike the sequels.

[@iug5672]

Lucas didn't entirely made Star Wars tho, if you look at the trivia for the making off of the Original trilogy you'll see that nothing can get a more honest description of "cooperative work" than that. George wrote a 14 page script for the movie at first, to see if he could sell the story to anyone. When he did, everyone working on him on the movie had something to say, to add, to remove. Even the actor of old Obi Wan that is sort of known for his not so biggest affection towards Stat Wars, helped on the script. Empire Strikes back is even more evident on that, as even the way Lightsaber duels happened were changed, despite Lucas's displease on that happening; for him, to choreography a more authentic sword battle was more important than the way the new Director used the lightsaber duels more related to the feelings of the characters (Luke gets angry, he swings the lightsaber angrily, he feels scared, he becomes defensive, Darth Vader moves rather cocky, displaying how superior his skills are). To think that George has complete viability as to what the franchise is simply because he is credited as such...well, that's dumb.

[@Vezmus1337]

Where's the respect for mah man Mandalore?

[@AK-hi7mg]

DuncanDeez dayuuum n shieet

[@kiroslepoto]

Clan ORDO STILL LIVES !

[@rogerclarke4760]

Now I know where Mr.Canderous Ordo went lol

[@sunwisecircles]

i'd love to see games when Revan first starts his journey and takes on the Mandalorians

[@vanillecrotch]

Play Kotor 1 mod "Brotherhood of shadow".

[@user-nd5ww9sy2w]

I need another KOTOR story, or a star wars rpg similar to this one. skill / affinity trees, item customization, immersive long term game play and most importantly - offline. a Mass Effect scale KOTOR would fill a long empty gap in my gaming love life. Thanks for the in-depth video.

[@robertharris6092]

Ohlong Johnson if your wanting the gamplay your looking for dungeon and dragon games. Like pillars of eternity.

[@vontosmagicmurderbag2611]

Too bad you will never get that now that Disney bought Star Wars.

[@enclaveenjoyer3410]

Try SWTOR dude, it's pretty good for an RPG.

[@enclaveenjoyer3410]

It's not trash, and it didn't ruin Revan to the point of no return, if they wanted or TRIED to, they could definetly bring him back to whatever you think is good. And I was recommending SWTOR because that's what I've played. And if I played the things you dude, maybe I'd see it differently than what I see.

[@foxmulder8955]

Swtor has decent stories and options for each class but the MMo setting and mechanics still make it a lot less immersive than Kotor 1 and 2 as a RPG.

[@ninvusoogoar6098]

to this day i still think kotor 2 is better than kotor 1 in terms of story.

[@sKyWIperzzz]

its better in every way possible.

[@autumnVoid1138]

Ninvus Gaming it's better I definitely agree but I still really enjoyed kotor 1 both I hold dear you know

[@marklee1194]

KOTOR I gave me a real shock when I first played it; to me, it was the best writing I have ever seen in a video game since The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past (which I have played many times since an early age). However, after playing KOTOR II, I quickly forgot about the first game and played the second one more often. I feel the excellent writing and more compelling story and atmosphere resonates with me to this day.

[@1101-f6z]

i completely agree

[@MorganWeazy44]

Same here and I also like meetra way better than revan

[@LegendofLegaia929]

Brianna/Handmaiden acts as a link to Atris. Her confrontation with Atris also adds to Atris's obsession with the Exile. You can practically feel the jealousy in her words as she electrocutes her.

[@nerdSlayerstudioss]

Yeah, that's why I think she's a much better character than Disciple...but you don't get her if you play female (without mods).

[@BarlytheDwarf]

Atris is a very deep character when we consider the fact that she doesn't have a lot of screen time. She hated the Exile, but also loved her. She was envious of the Exile's uncompromising principles, but also admired her for them. She despised everything the Exile stood for, but was also doubtful of the validity her own choices, and couldn't stand the fact that the Exile was so sure of her own. If the Exile is male, it's quite clear that Atris desires him, loves him, but hates herself for feeling so. She even kept the Exile's sabre. There's a lot of contradictions to Atris' character because she's a very broken person, and it's not hard to feel sorry for her but also hate her for her actions. She embodies a lot of the themes present in the story. That's damn good writing. Also on an unrelated note: The reason why Sion originally found out about the Exile was not due to Kreia manipulating the situation, in fact, she was also searching for her with the Ebon Hawk (because Kreia wanted to understand why the Exile had given up the Force), but because Atris leaked information about the Exile from to bait the Sith into showing themselves, which in turn gave the Sith a scent and pattern to follow. That's why Kreia says "...the Sith believe you to be a Jedi Knight, and that's all that matters." - they never would found the Exile had Atris not instigated her return into Republic space. Kotor II has a great atmosphere, complex themes, great dialogue, interesting choices, fantastic characters and far, far superior world building to any Star Wars content out there. I'm gladdened beyond words that the popular opinion has shifted to Kotor II being the best Star Wars game out there (especially with TSLRCM - look it up). Five, ten years ago people thought Kotor I was better but that's simply not true, and never has been, even with the gimped vanilla version. That being said: GO DOWNLOAD TSLRCM! You'll get so much more from Kotor II! It restores a _ton_ of cut content and it does it *well*!

[@cyberninjazero5659]

nerdSlayer The story is straight up just better if you play as a Male it's clear that Attris is/was in love with the exile and felt betrayed by him

[@johnrosie9769]

LegendofLegaia929 brianna kae yusanis is an important character if you want a badass jedi guardian apprentice..you can also train atton and mira and bao dur...

[@lilthommodt]

you are wrong about the disciple, if you pay any attention at all. he gives you a lot of insight into the Jedi civil war and how it dulled the the public opinion of Jedi, until many believed them no better than the Sith, add to that he is the one to discover the echo that emanates from malachor V, but kreia temporarily wipes his mind of his discovery, the disciple, is also the one who TELLS you who all but one of revans masters were, skipping kreia because she is manipulating the disciples mind. I rest my case

[@wingsrope]

Agreed. He also doesn't give credit to the other characters either. Visas provides perspective on being a non-schizophrenic Sith. Hanharr has a great lesson of strength to teach the Exile. etc. I still liked his review though.

[@glitchbot117]

wingsrope If you reject Hanharr's lesson , and choose to draw strength from yourself, you get plus 2 wisdom. Even then you're still right. I just thought this was an interesting fact.

[@johnrosie9769]

Daniel Thompson because they are no better than the sith

[@theaveon1214]

NO MENTION OF T3. *TRIGGERED*

[@tornadragon4047]

or Mandalore.

[@varasatoshi3961]

Brianna should exist in both playthroughs, as a member of the party because of Atris. Her storyline is really compelling to me.

[@perturbo]

idk how you thought Visas or Brianna were boring characters.

[@MrKosobi]

Visas is just mumbling nonsense pretty much all the time. Her character was non-existent, she served solely as a purpose to spew some quasi-philosophical nonsense. If anything, I don't get how the fuck can you even like her? I personally liked Brianna though.

[@singleberetta7526]

Her story (entire planet destroyed) and her current existence are really sad and she surrenders first to Nihilus and then to you, and she gets to feel mercy and compassion from the Exile for a first time after a while (off the top of my head btw, last time I played this was ages ago), I thought this was pretty interesting.

[@jamiengo2343]

Single Beretta yes well for Leia in the movies, it's even worse with the destruction of Alderaan. For every Alderrinian it was bad. Your point?

[@singleberetta7526]

my point is that she is the last of a kind (not just a human from one planet that got destroyed) therefore her story is not boring, I thought I made that obvious

[@rougeandrei9095]

who is Briana?

[@xd666xd]

Jedi Exile(Chris Avellone): An awesome AVATAR character, which is literally represented as "A wound in the Force"; In all Obsidian Entertainment materials, as official arts, the Jedi Exile was always a male character. Meetra Surik(Drew Karpys): Boring generic female Jedi character of the "Light Side Path", who is literally represented as a personal she-Sidekick of the he-Revan from Drew's BioWare cannon.

[@georgehamilton7968]

It always amazes me how Drew Karpy was able to make such a bullshit novel, about his own character Revan, in which he even added Chris's Jedi Exile, making him an esteriotypic Robin (but chick) and Revan a Jedi Batman or something like that!

[@tukulitosakayama5663]

His terrible representation of Revan in that novel really triggered me too, but what the Karpys one did to the Jedi Exile in that damn novel was simply unforgivable.

[@fredreindljr1996]

I always preferred Chris Avellone's version. I think it should be up to the player to decide who the Jedi Exile is.

[@jagtech490]

Fred Reindl yeah I disagree with that

[@DysmasTheGoodThief]

Funny, I never read these but from the art it was obvious male was the canon exile, and that’s how I always play it.

[@darkanguiel]

Great review. 10 years ago everybody looked weird at me when I said that KOTOR 2 was superior to any other Star Wars story. I'm glad to find so many reviews nowadays that look back at the game and appreciate its complexity and brilliant writing.

[@AshersAesera]

Why are you so "hush hush" on spoilers in an In-Depth Analysis? From my perspective it would hinder people, who aren't familiar with the content you're analyzing, from clearly understanding the points you're trying to make as there's always a gap knowledge. It also makes it easier for people to misunderstand or misinterpret what you're talking about. Also, later on you introduce spoilers anyways so why not just have a spoiler warning for those who haven't played the series just yet? It really hurts your analysis when you have to keep mentioning spoilers with every topic you bring up later in the video. Finally, I feel the title doesn't necessarily fall under a general in-depth analysis; You only talk about the story aspects of the game, but it's not clear that that's the case. Maybe it was wrong of me to do so, but I went into this expecting an analysis of the various game mechanics and features, and how they all inter-played together. Despite that, it feels like you're summarizing a lot for an in-depth analysis, which could be due to the reason above. Anyways, thankyu for the video~

[@FirstLast-fr4hb]

That is kind of funny

[@diegoaespitia]

WHOA BAO DUR IS BORING? Bruh, have u heard his voice? Literally the way he talks makes me actually like his character.

[@twobirdsstonedatonce]

For real! I loved his devotion to the exile.

[@Oodelally]

He is also the only companion that knows you can read his thoughts, other than Atton!

[@Artsho95]

I will always say KOTOR is canon over the actual Starwars series. Kreia continues to blow my mind.

[@Markmaben17]

Artsho95 I maintain that KOTOR is canon because revan appeared in rebels I think

[@jamiengo2343]

Mark Maben when?

[@103035icle]

Artsho95 well in the clone wars Season 3, episode 10. Saesee tiin makes passing mention to the old Republic. And the clone wars is canon.

[@AlonzoTompkins]

And Rebels had malachor. And a Sith temple on Malachor with a voice speaking through a Sith holocron that sounded like Kreia's voice.

[@fredreindljr1996]

It's canon now.

[@Turtle1631991]

Bao-Dur is anything but forgettable: "Your command echoes still, General. And I obey, as I did at Malachor."

[@twobirdsstonedatonce]

yesss!!!!!

[@jenskatze2449]

MalachOoorrr...

[@OllieMendes]

I don't understand why people care what is officially considered "canon". The most that would mean is that we won't get a KotOR or Shadows of the Empire Disney movie, but why would I want that? I've already played those games, I know those stories, I don't need them to be retold to me. They're fictional stories, you can just take the parts you like and ignore the ones you don't and make that your own personal canon.

[@borek92]

I know right? I don't get it either, ESPECIALLY when it comes to Old Republic games. I guess I can sorta understand decanonizing the more current stuff that goes with the Skywalker saga, but tales of events that took place thousands of years before Anakin was even born? Who cares if it's canon or not, it probably wouldn't matter more than a brief mention, not even a cameo. So these Old Republic games can be canon or not canon for all I care, because either way it doesn't change a thing. People lost their shit when The Clone Wars included Darth Bane like 'omg guys he's canon!'. No, not really. The only thing that is canon is what the scene from the show has shown. The entire books are still part of Legends.

[@FirstLast-fr4hb]

Thats the kind of thinking that ruined the continuity.

[@EskChan19]

Because everything that comes out from now can only play in the canon. So for example we can never get a Kotor 3 now, because officially Kotor 1 and 2 never happened. We can never get a Jedi Knight 4 because Jedi Knight 1-3 never happened. Kyle Katarn, Revan, the Exile and so on don't exist. So no story in future can ever do anything with them. And do you really think that Rey is so much better that it makes that trade worth it?

[@DMWolFGurL]

The first time I played this game, I forever was hooked. To me it was actually haunting. Like one of those feelings that stay with you, and haunts you. That is true nerdiness I believe. It almost transcends me to a dark state of mind, wishing I was a part of this in reality.

[@casedistorted]

I played this game over 10 years ago, I remember bits and pieces but the story didn't really stick with me as much as the more nerdy of our culture it seems. I remember enjoying the game more than KOTOR 1 but it was just another RPG in a long line of RPG's I played growing up.

[@laurentguyot3362]

same for me. I almost played through in one time barely sleeping and eating. It was like being in another dimension

[@TrunkMonkey3000]

Vincent Kyle That's because this game is cursed. It actually has a curse place upon it to be the greatest Star Wars story ever, but because of the curse a few things suffered. First of all, because of the curse there's no more good and evil in the game. Second of all, the game could never be completed because of the curse. (We saw this not only because of the unfinished content, but also it failed to be ported to Android). Third of all, all future star wars games / movies were destined to be shit after star wars kotor 2. In fact, Lucas arts was even sold to disney, a company full of evil sorcerers who base their operations in a black and wicked land known as the "Magic Kingdom". The main objective and desire is for the Disney Sorcerers is of course the souls of the little ones, the little children, that's their ultimate goal. Luckily though because of SW KOTOR 2 all their films they pump out are continual shit, no matter how much money they pour into their projects. Of course naturally they've completely misunderestimated this game, they know nothing of the Star Wars curse that KOTOR 2 placed upon the franchise or why their Star Wars projects eat so much ass. So all you people talking about the dream state this game put you in, well now you known that it is because of the great curse. Somebody had a certain pact with a certain devil to create this game, it came at a terrible price . . .

[@TPKProductions]

TM3000 lml what are you even saying hahaha

[@danielcooke3800]

Same here...the story was so impressive and u got a completely different experience every time.

[@MisterTutor2010]

Evil will always triumph because Good is dumb - Dark Helmet, Spaceballs :)

[@eval_is_evil]

Keep shooting assholes!

[@Firguy_the_Foot_Fetishist]

You'll never get away with this, Black Helmet Man! You are bad! You are bad and we are good! Your badness will be the end you and our goodness will be our triumph! Bad is bad! Good is good! Bad bad good bad! Good good bad good.. Bad. Good. - Princess Bunhead, Thumb Wars

[@NostalgicHunger]

Beautiful game. Great review. Unfortunately, things that followed created the wound in the force, which can never be healed.

[@nerdSlayerstudioss]

Literally or figuratively? Lol. KOTOR 3 wasn't made due to a wound in the force :(

[@NostalgicHunger]

Both :) Was referring to SWTOR project, which reduced the evolution and complexity of KotOR franchise to nothingness.

[@nerdSlayerstudioss]

Did you play SWTOR extensively? I have beaten all the story-lines except Jedi Consular and the Imperial Agent (which I hear is the best).

[@NostalgicHunger]

Sure thing I did, and appreciated lots of things in there. It's the best MMO that could exist for KotOR fan (until Cartel Market plague infected it), and a nice continuation of KotOR I. As continuation of TSL, however, it is horrible. Dream about the day when SWTOR will be shut down, and Revan's & Exile's fates - rewritten in KotOR 3. Also, looking forward to Logan's Revenge of Revan :)

[@nerdSlayerstudioss]

Why did you think Cartel Market was a reason it was bad? And is Revenge of Revan still being made? I remember hearing about that years ago lol.

[@XibalbaFilms]

Kotor 1 & 2 will always first and foremost be the only Star Wars canon I care to recognize. Didn't care much for the movies, if it wasn't for the old republic era games (kotor1,kotor2,swtor) I wouldn't be much of a fan of star wars.

[@swiggityswag6748]

Lann I agree.

[@shotglassanhero]

Well it’s just so much more interesting. Between the story, characters, and explanations you’ll never get in a film-even the paradigm it is set in-it is all so much better. You can commiserate with Revan and the Exile in ways you can’t with the mainstream Star Wars TM characters.

[@KamenSentaiMetalHero]

Lann I love the Star Wars franchise in general but The Old Republic Era(KOTOR, KOTOR II, SWTOR) is the best thing to come out of the franchise.

[@eval_is_evil]

And jedi academy which was very good ...also possibly Outcast but that story was borderline cheesefest i think. Force infusion was bullshit.

[@andrewjensen8128]

KOTOR 2 was so buggy, but the way it deconstructs the morality of Star Wars makes it an engaging experience. You also get the Jedi version ofAyn Rand.

[@129das]

Handmaid is awesome don't you disrespect my handmaid. I did not like that you don't get her as female as a male character she severs a good propose.

[@axl100100]

He played as female , many features are gender locked and not only.

[@129das]

No he played as both but the canon version is female. Because Kotor 1 writer wanted Revan to be male, I am convinced that is the only reason. If you ever read the Revan Book it is completely disrespectful to the exile story.

[@Xylarxcode]

+129das If I recall correctly, I seem to remember that it is the Jedi Exile who is responsible for the resurrection of the Jedi Order. The Jedi she trained during her travels, excluding Bao Dur, went on to restore the Jedi Order and it would continue to exist for thousands of years after. It is shameful that they leave her ending so open and don't even properly acknowledge her existence in the MMO, nor what happens to her (did she become one with the Force? Is she still a spirit? Did she die permanently?) but I choose to believe that she just became one with the Force at the same time Revan did.

[@nomorepartiezz]

I agree, just finished the game for the first time. to me handmaiden was one of the more important characters of the game, the whole story and conflict with Atris just wouldn't feel right without her.

[@FirstLast-fr4hb]

uhh

[@Sakoera_Aweralius]

Just the fact that you are still reading the comments of this video did just earn you a sub but also the video was awesome man did not even know about this mod i gues i go for my (5) fifht playtrough sry for my bad english thoug

[@blakereed1654]

kotor canon states that revan returned to his first and now final teacher to learn how to leave the jedi forever, and kreia stated as fact that she was that master who taught him how to do so, so there you have it, kreia is arren kae

[@dix7015]

*But Czerka ruined EVERYTHING* The way Bao Dur says that always makes me chuckle.

[@greenviewproductions133]

I gotta say I absolutely loved Atton better than any other character in the SW lore. He truly felt like a best friend on your journey. He was funny. He was kind. He was aggressive when he needed to be. He felt like a nice mix of Han Solo and Anakin to me. I dunno, to me Atton is one of the main reasons I always went back to the game. Just to hang with the guy and discover things I didn't before such as making him a Jedi / Dark Jedi and finding out about his terrible, brutal past... KOTOR 2 beats KOTOR 1 in every way. Sorry but it's true. If only Lucasfilm wasn't such asses and made the game come out too soon. Just imagine how much more cool stuff Obsidian could have added beyond the Restored Content given the time...

[@carterf3585]

They still would have been restricted by technological limitations. An Xbox disc has room for about 5.5 gigabytes of data. Not enough for them to put in much more content than was already in there. I would love to see what they could do on a modern console with this old school game design philosophy

[@99thJediWarrior]

Basically, Atton was pretty much KOTOR's Han Solo. And his backstory was very well-thought-out and interesting. As for KOTOR 1 and 2, both games excel at storytelling. Essentially KOTOR 1's plot is a blending if the first plot in Baldur's Gate and the first plot in Neverwinter Nights.

[@shotglassanhero]

I remember seeing a macro of a quote from Malak and Scion--it was painfully obvious that Obsidian had a much better writing staff. It's a shame that LucasArts forced them to rush the development. (I'm pretty sure the Disciple was going to have a much more fleshed out character and was one part that was cut from the game). Also, why no mention of Mandalore? I wouldn't call Kotor 2 perfect but I wholeheartingly agree it has the best atmosphere in any Star Wars visual media. I remember in 2007-8 when I was painstakingly desperate for a Kotor 3. Where I was obsessed finding out any information about it. I had purchased Kotor II first and I actually appreciate that I played this game first since it doesn't really spoil anything from the first game and has such great character development and plot. Once BioWare was bought out by EA, I realized how commercial things were going to get. I remember in a famous interview for the announcement of the old republic mmo, one of the devs claiming it was "Kotor 3, 4, 5 and so on". I even ended up boycotting Mass Effect until I gave in and bought it. Fully enjoyed it and got immersed in that world because of how reminiscent is was to Kotor. At the time I was a young adolescent with an Xbox 360; so there weren't too many modern RPGs that I was interested in. Mostly Oblivion, Bioshock, Mass Effect, Fallout 3, etc... But I really missed the turn based combat and greater attention to story. I remember emailing Game Informer around 2008 asking if they would talk about Kotor 3 and sure enough (I'm guessing along with other people asking at the time) they did a very short paragraph begging the question if Bioware was working on it. I think it's so sad they were in development to make it but had to scrap it. I'm not sure if in the grand scheme of things that it was good. There was a possibility that Bioware wouldn't exist if EA didn't come in and buy them out. With the Force Awakens and the Disney buyout I am a bit skeptical with what will become of this beloved IP in the hands of corporate overlords whipping the more creative people to adhere to the sensibilities of "casual" gamers. There is a lot of talk of a supposed Kotor remake or a Netflix series set during the Madalorian Wars/Darth Revan timeline. Of course so far they are just rumors. What was figured out though is that the Battlefront Rogue One DLC is to blame for any delays or development of a Star Wars single player RPG. EA and Disney are scary to me. I don't have faith they will respect the longstanding love fans have of the series. But I am not going to dismiss anything outright until I see it for myself.

[@nerdSlayerstudioss]

I think you are right about the first bit. I frankly think there's no way they created Disciple and thought "yep, he's finished". Also I don't want to get all sappy myself, but I really think it's the end of Bioware as we knew it. Luckily Obsidian is still out there making games though, I hope they don't get picked up by a big company either. I will be reviewing Tyranny for example, an upcoming Obsidian title. Chris Avellone might not be apart of them anymore, but they still have plenty of good writers. I think there's still hope for a fleshed out Star Wars RPG, I just don't see it being as dark as Kotor 2 was. I will be doing a Kotor 1 vs 2 video this week, curious what peoples opinions on that will be. Thanks for the reply.

[@Turtle1631991]

I count rushing KOTOR II out as one of the most tragic decisions in gaming history ever. The writing of the game, the depth, the motives you can find in it, the layers of meaning. Few books or movies can match that even. That fame had potential to be one of the best games ever created, to redifine standards of gamemaking really. KOTOR II was to Star Wars universe what Miller's Dark Knight was to Batman long time ago. Transforming fairly simple good vs. evil story to something more more meaningful and much less black and white... To this day I am fascinated by it and keep revisiting topics it adresses and stories it tells...

[@WeirdVoyager]

I'm really tired of seeing people saying Bioware committed some great sin, or even that they "rushed" Obsidian to finish the game. Have you ever noticed how no developer ever works with Obsidian twice? Bioware/LucasArts didn't rush them, Obsidian was offered the job to create a sequel using the existing engine and assets within one year. One. Year. If they couldn't develop their product in that time, they shouldn't have taken the job. Yet they did. Obsidian failed to set realistic goals, a responsibility which falls on every single developer. "Oh we'd love to add X and Y and Z to our game, we just didn't have the time and money!" They were hired and paid to do a job within one year, then when the year was up acted like it was somehow LucasArts fault that they didn't get to finish their work. They've done this with Fallout as well. They've burned bridges all across the industry, that's why they had to go to crowdsourcing for their latest series.

[@shotglassanhero]

I didn't know that they promised to deliver the product within a year. But in reality when you have a creative team working on a game, limiting the time to develop it within a year is a pipe-dream. Especially when you are talking about a single player RPG that Obsidian wants to inspire people with along with all the bells and whistles. So many games are delayed these days in the justice of not releasing a half finished product. Even LucasArts having an agreement with Obsidian to produce a game of the first Kotor's scope within one year is making a chicken out of a feather. And I'm assuming Bioware probably didn't make Kotor in the same time. Now, I do agree that Obsidian should be respectful considering they are given this opportunity to create titles like Kotor 2 and New Vegas with assets from BioWare and Bethesda respectively. That should probably cut some of the time of development but still not to a mere year. The same issues can be seen in both of these titles and perhaps it is having to use another's developer's engine as well as being under the heel of a publisher or third party (Like LucasArts). In New Vegas case, the issues are not as glaring as the IP was Obsidian's to begin with--so I'm guessing it was easier to make that game coming from the experience of Kotor 2. I think you might be overestimating how much Obsidian worked with conjunction with other dev teams as I'm sure at the time BioWare was working hard on their own projects just as Bethesda was probably working on Skyrim and producing other Titles as well. I'm straight up going to assume Obsidian didn't like the feeling of using another's developer's engine to make the game they wanted to achieve. Perhaps I'm giving them too much credit, but what other sort of company has this réport of being able to create and license a sequel to a successful game without having to buy the IP or be a subsidiary of the company that owns it. I mean I can only imagine the complications that comes with having to work around LucasArts and an engine you have no experience in programming with and whatnot. I'm sure it also led them to compromise with the more corporate types who only care about video games being on the shelves in a particular quarter and could care less if the game is unfinished. It's clear Obsidian went into making these games from a creative standpoint but had the weight of someone making sure they came out with the game within a reasonable time. And to reiterate a year is simply not enough for a small studio like Obsidian to produce a video game. The process should be much longer if you want the entire product. In today's gaming world we live in a wonderland where games can be released early and be continuously patched. This leads to obvious problems of course but can work in certain game's favor such as Overwatch or Ark (Online?) Anyway, I think we should consider that Obsidian was tired of the red tape of working with other developers and publishers and realized they could get their own funding while creating their video games on their own terms. You are probably more knowledgable considering you brought this to our attention. I think any game developer that would cut content from their game in order to release a game at a certain time are doing a disservice to their own product. It will be painfully obvious to the people who play it and will cause the game to not stand the test of time. Just for example: Bethesda cutting a lot of Skyrim just to release it on 11-11-11, while knowing the replay-ability of their game will suffer and mostly be from the modding community releasing more content that Bethesda could not do on their own. That's why I truly despise the corporate aspect of deadlines for video games. In the end taking an extra year or so to get it truly right will only bolster your appeal to hardcore fans and casual gamers alike. And I fully understand they can't spend so much time fucking around because at the end of the day a product does need to be released at some point. But so many people think these days by just adding more people to the development team (or movie crews) that they can create the finished product in less time. That's one of the reasons the Hobbit films were somewhat of a failure. The people producing the movie wanted the product they were paying for to come out sooner. Just throwing money at the problem couldn't speed up the creative process of the film and in the end botches the entire process--creating a vapid, rushed out final product. And it is simple as that. You might say you are tired of people sympathizing with Obsidian for being forced to release the game on the time they promised, but I will never have sympathy for producers and publishers that push the creative people to work quicker just to have the finished product sooner.

[@WeirdVoyager]

You could have saved us both a lot of time and just said "yes, I'm biased for Obsidian and will side with them regardless," because that's the impression your post gave off. Not to be inflammatory, but you're showing a lot of ignorance on the subject yourself. Kotor2 does use the same engine and assets. Furthermore, LucasArts was trying to release the games in time with the prequel series hype and popularity, maximizing profits. If Obsidian couldn't release a full game within their allotted time, they shouldn't have signed on for the job and accepted payment, it's as simple as that. Then to shuck responsibility and throw it back on the people who threw them a bone hiring them in the first place? Not only is that disrespectful, it shows a lack of character on part of Obsidian. You've fallen into the blind hype dream that so many people do, just look at No Man's Sky and how people drool over all the big ideas that game was supposed to have. Big ideas may sound good but what matters is the ability to pull them off, which Obsidian clearly can't. It's a fundamental responsibility of developers to make the best with the money and time that they have. You don't get an infinite budget or infinite production cycle, you have to learn how to manage your time and money. You seem to think a year isn't enough time to pump the game out. Let me remind you that Majora's Mask was made in a single year, using the assets and engine of Ocarina of Time. You give Obsidian entirely too much credit. They're a game studio that lives for being handed the scraps of other, better, developers. They consistently fail to manage their time and money correctly, fail to accomplish the job they're paid to do, and fail to accept the responsibility of the failure. This is why they never get hired to work with the same developer twice, and, like I said, why they had to use kickstarter to fund their next game, because no other developers would find them. Pillars of Eternity was a great game, but it took several expansions to get all of the content made and released. I'm waiting for the documentary to be released to we can hear them blame fans for not having all of their work done. Maybe then people will stop worshiping them and start paying attention.

[@shreddman8704]

Get rid of Handmaiden? Her WIS bonus to DEF is super!

[@King_Smoked_Meat]

What I loved so much about KOTOR 2 was the atmosphere. Parts of the game felt like a horror/ thriller experience. You often explore old, abandoned ruins while knowing your character is being hunted. It gives a great sense of foreboding. Also Kreia

[@gronndar]

even the first area with that mining station is like thriller/horror movie when you try to figure out what happend there.

[@teutonicorder9520]

Ikr? We have the same taste captain.

[@kiroslepoto]

Arren Kae is about billion times more interesting than Ma-Rey Suuuuuuue! Will NEVER forget the lord of betrayal !

[@commanderarielleshepard4920]

Peragus was my favorite part of the whole game, precisely because of that thriller/horror feel. You're (mostly) alone, trying to solve a murder mystery and find a way off the station.

[@jeanjacquesrousseau1955]

@@commanderarielleshepard4920 Funny, I hated Paragus because it felt so empty and cold. I hated korriban too because of that haha. I never finished the game as a sith by the way because it felt so damn evil haha. Instead I loved the citadel station and Onderon. But you are right, it really felt like a horror game sometimes. As a child I was really scared sometimes. I started with Dxun and I felt so damn good when I finally found all lightsaber parts to get some hope and confidence from the light of my new lightsaber to battle the fear haha.

[@MrRizo23]

Hey disney, look! great female characters that pretty well nobody has a problem with :P

[@fuzzydunlop7928]

Disagree with the characterization of Visas, as well as some of the other characters. I think you missed the point. You have to think about what they mean to the player. This game isn't ALL back-story. Visas is meant to act as a reflection of the player's actions and behaviors. She learns from you because she had been subservient for so long - you can either use this for your own needs like Nihilus or help her self-actualize. Boa Dur (I admit his delivery is fucking snoozy) is important because he represents the effects of war on the normal, un-forceful folks in the galaxy, the toll it takes on them. He can provide insight into the Exile at the moment of "truth" with the MSG, but really you're meant to see its effect on him, how it's made him what Septon Meribald from A Feast for Crows would call a "Broken Man" - and then infer this about your player character. In a way, it's meant to get you into the headspace of your own character by proxy. You can control how this knowledge or experience may effect the character, but Dur's recollections (a better name would've helped, more like fucking "Bore Dull") portray the gravity of the Exile's decisions and part in the Mando war. These characters means something, they are for gameplay purposes - for the journey rather than the backstory, and so your focus on the philosophy and the backstory caused you to do a disservice to them by virtue of preconceived ambivalence. Additionally, Atton is a DECONSTRUCTION of the scoundrel, much like Kreia is a deconstruction of the wise mentor - he's not Han Solo, it's only supposed to seem that way at first until you learn about his past and what "scoundrel" really means - again, you seemed ignorant of this completely - like you only really did your homework on Kreia.

[@506thLittleberry]

Great game. Though KOTOR 1 is still my favorite. I thought the worlds were more interesting in the first one. Also I'll never forget the first time I played KOTOR 1 when I saved a poor old man from getting dragged off to be killed, only to then rob him of his money myself. Or when I forced Zaalbar to kill his best friend. I do agree about the characters though, they're much less cookie cutter and deeper in II. One of the best things about this game compared to the first one is the fact that it tells you if a container is empty. :p

[@kalashnikovdevil]

The mod that lets you take the Handmaiden along on a female run is one of the best possible mods you can get.

[@EskChan19]

Also makes sense, given that according to the "canon" or what used to be canon, the Exile is female but does have the Handmaiden-.

[@Revanbzn]

And the disciple is just boring and does nothing to the story

[@BrassBallsofSteel]

Man you nailed it at the end there- played this game when I was 10 and bought it cause the cover looked like Battlefront. All these years later this is still one of my favorite games of all time, and thank you for not shitting on Peragus like everyone else- I found the story and setting there to be immensely interesting and atmospheric. Gonna start it up again for old times sake- Jedi Jesus/HK-47/Kreia for life!

[@dewittbourchier7169]

I liked how he openly made the Sith Lords pitiable. Both Nihilus and Sion regret what they are. Nihilus loves Visas and screams in rage and anguish when he sees her with the Exile. He also is said to do what he does because he cannot self-terminate so he does as he must, but without any relish. Sion loathes his existence. They are both evil and must be stopped but they are like a lot of people on the 'wrong' side in a conflict, not loathsome human beings but still people who must be stopped. The Jedi and the Republic are good, but both arrogant and ineffectual.

[@BestOfReddit242]

i honestly loved how you could turn your companions to the darkside and train them in the force but kotor 2 was more fun with a dar side playthroug in my opinion

[@autumnVoid1138]

wait what about mandalore?

[@mihokspawn]

The real question, Canderous was not even mentioned in this video.

[@autumnVoid1138]

Miklos Mihok yeah I know right the whole time I was wondering why he was completely not mentioned once at all

[@shinjigaming7185]

Yeah dont discriminat against mandalorians

[@chrismyers6848]

Or T3

[@martykuypers8608]

If you play like I did the second time I beat it with full light side and your companions are always Visis and Bao-dur because in my opinion they are the best characters to accompany you. Visis hits the full shift to the light side before you do. Then if you keep those companions after always making light side decisions Bao-dur eventually turns into a Jedi guardian and is full light side and has a strength upgrade for force mastery. Let me tell you when you're walking through the levels with Visis and Bao-dur being Jedi Masters and yourself you just bulldoze through any enemy or creature with practacly no resistance. So the light side is harder to go through but it's rewards are greater.

[@kjetilhansen5363]

I actually liked this game more than the first KOTOR. A far better plot and more memorable characters. The villains are especially great. Darth Malak is kind of bland, but the complex Kreia, the creepy Sion and the demon-like Nihilus are, I dare say, superior to any Star Wars villains beside Vader and Sidious.

[@brendancoulter5761]

I love this game, but I am annoyed that no one points out that the plot is both unnecessarily convoluted and has several holes. Traya's backstory is so complex and winding I have trouble making any sense of it in terms or order of events, she essentially has 3 backgrounds that dont necessarily have an obvious order. Nihlus supposedly single handedly whipped out an entire planet, yet you can beat him in a fairly easy boss fight where his only trick is to interrupt the fight with cutsenes. I dont think he could take out his own crew in a straight fight, yet he is supposed to be a world eater. Its established that out side of combat any pain the PC or Traya feels, the other also feels and Tray even uses this to black mail the PC, but in the end Traya dies after a long combat free cutscene and the PC walks away unaffected with no explanation. You are supposed to be a "wound" in the force, even though you still feel the force, can help others grow in the force, and seemingly have no ill effects. (I will grant that last part seemed purposefully left to interpretation, but from how the game plays out I had to conclude that both the council and Traya must not understand your condition, because what they describe does not align with the way the game plays out.) For all that I love about this game there is some messy writing that seems to contradict itself, but thankfully it is writtian in such a way the player can interpret allot of the story, wich helps smooth the rough edges allot.

[@WineRedEchos]

Both kotor 1 and 2 are great games. but tbh. I actually prefer kotor 2. don't get me wrong, revan is cool. but idk... I just like 2 more.

[@nicolaikl452]

what ? Brianna Hanharr and the Guy from Dantooine, who you get when you're a femal and whos english Name I dont remember are considered BORING ? Do you know that you can turn each of your humanoid followors besides Mandalore into a Jedi ? those stories behind their reasons to become a Jedi are not boring!

[@FirstLast-fr4hb]

I managed to go through the entire game without discovering any of them could be turned into jedi.

[@PelinalWhitestrake36]

>Lucas arts pressured Obsidian to finish the game >Obsidian released a unfinished master piece that >Bethesda pressures Obsidian to finish FNV >Obsidian releases an unfinished master piece WHEN WILL AAA PUBLISHERS FUCKING LEARN?!!!

[@veespa_]

I love this analysis and this video as a whole. I have one critique - there’s several times throughout the video where it sounds like you’re eating something, or, like, sucking on a cough drop maybe... the result is that some of your narration sounds slurred and unclear. When you talk about SWTOR, you say that you don’t like how they handled Revan and _I think_ you say the Exile? But it almost sounds like you say Exar, as in Exar Kun? This is one example but there were other’s throughout the video. I’m playing through KOTOR 2 again, on iOS since it just came out, before I play SWTOR for the first time and enjoy that story for the first time, I’m excited. Thank you for the video!

[@4D4plus4is4D8]

Not that it matters, but when people refer to a serial villain, it's not a cereal box villain, it's a reference to old serial movies and tv shows - a stereotypical villain with a mustache that he twirls while he ties a damsel to train tracks.

[@MrMarinus18]

I think it's very believable for the Jedi to become as few as they are here as they had 3 costly wars happen to them in rapid succession. All 3 of them on top of being very costly in terms of lives causing large schisms and tearing the order apart. After having that happen to them 3 times in less than a century it makes a lot of sense for the jedi order to be as shattered as it is.

[@yuripantyhose4973]

I played KOTOR2 several times before KOTOR1, in the army people were shocked by this, and when I finished the army and returned back to life I played KOTOR1 it was so satisfying to play a full game that wasn't rushed. Still after completing Kotor1 several times as well I find myself more drawn to KOTOR2 because of all your points here. Great vid, thanks. Looking forward to playing KOTOR2 again with the mods you mentioned. I disagree about Handmaiden, she was very interesting to talk too and she was part of the story. Mira she is completely useless, you don't need her they could have written it differently, and you only have her for a few hours... Mira, evil wookie, evil flying robot and Disciple was irrelevant, I didn't even know Disciple was in the game until my 6th or 8th playthrough.

[@Sasukejepansef]

I am actually surprised you dont like the Disciple. I think he was one of the more interesting characters, he was the only one that managed to see Kreia for who she really was, and recognized her as Sith and threat.

[@jesssiemers665]

fucking love this game I remember staying up for weeks playing kotor2 and morrowind for Xbox

[@usernameunavailable4274]

Jess Siemers did you mention me?

[@Johncalabro7]

How about a look back at the mass effect series?

[@MrOberon22]

I liked Kotor 1 a bit better than Kotor 2 (big Revan fan). But what really transmitted over to me in all the dialogues of kotor 2 was that feeling of betrayal through the jedi council as the exile. You risking your neck alongside Revan and a few other stand-right Jedi in the mandalorian wars to end the mandalorian's merciless onslaught, while those sanctimonious council members sat back and would've seen the entire galaxy burn, rather than stepping in and finally be the protector's of peace they always claimed to be. And then their gall to judge you as a traitor to the jedi order and your expulsion. Especially Atris, her arrogance was infuriating.

[@rantradio]

I could watch videos about this awesome game/sequel/best star wars story ever told ALL DAY!! P.S: Mira doesn't get enough love

[@KadurOrdo]

Except the fact that Jedi, fallen to the Dark Side didnt necessarily become Sith, but rather "Dark Jedi" for "Sith" is more like the religious belief or the race of the Sith than "Sith Empire" implies them all to be Sith, I liked this video alot!

[@sine_of_luck]

You forgot T3-M4! He may not be much of a character in terms of personality, but he is the main NPC helper in the first part of the game.

[@commanderdanielcousland9981]

The MMO and the Revan Novel was not poor story telling, it was god damn horrible story telling.

[@commanderdanielcousland9981]

@Un-broken and victorious Don't worry my friend I will one day become a CORPORATE OVERLORD and reap my unholy revenge on EA.....and then I'll reboot the KOTOR series and add Zayne Carrik into them.

[@bluemuppet6]

so let me get this straight, you get the wookie if you help Czarka on Telos. what if you stick mostly to the light, you still get him that's dumb lol. I like Mira better.

[@reessimmons2159]

I'm not going to say the vocal recording / editting on this video is bad, BUT, just makes me really appreciate your growth as a narrator / script writer. Dedication to a craft is always impressive and I appreciate the thoughtful content

[@nerdSlayerstudioss]

It's pretty bad, thanks for the compliment

[@troo_6656]

From what I read in the coments a LOT of people have their black and white/good vs evil morality.

[@vontosmagicmurderbag2611]

WHAT. There are mods that restore content? This changes everything. I always liked KOTOR better because KOTOR 2 felt like it stripped away from instead of added to the first game.

[@ThejollyFrenchman]

In my experience, the M478 mod didn't work and actually disabled the restored content mod. By the time I noticed this, I was too far into my playthrough to reasonably restart. If you download M478, do it with a list of Restored Content features. If they don't show up, disable M478 and restart before you leave Paragus. Kotor 2 isn't complete without the restored content mod.

[@petechavasty4209]

I think their both FANTASTIC games... Unfortunately ive never been able to beat kotor 2 due to glitches in the mainframe. Game always crashed and made me start over 😥

[@CapatinRex18]

I always liked KOTOR 1 over KOTOR 2. This video gives some perspective on some of the brilliant writing going on there. But i still prefer KOTOR 1, just because its a round, well polished story with great characters. KOTOR 2 has too many gaps for my taste, that came by surely due to time contraints on the part of the developers. Also i´m not huge on the horror/thriller atmosphere of the game.

[@KurticeYZreacts]

kotor 2 was exactly as you said "grey area". i love that about it it is offically better than kotor 1 now ty

[@harz632]

A bit late but Go-To isn't a droid criminal mastermind, I thought that too in my first playthrough but Go-To instead is one of a few specially build droids that do their masters will, they are permanently liked with him aswell, GoTo is just one of his bodyguards he sent to help you out.

[@JamesRoancrest]

M4-78 isn't that good, but the TSLRCM is mandatory.

[@reyntime1950]

You've got it all backwards. Disney star wars is NOT canon.

[@Ubeogesh]

I liked KotOR 2 much more than the 1st game

[@lexort4204]

Even without the restored content mod Kotor 2 is better then the original Kotor.

[@AkosKovacs.Author.Musician]

Great video,but I disappointed you didn't mentioned Atton's wonderfully messed up backstory.

[@matthewdavis418]

I know it was rushed and flawed but to me it was superior to the first one

[@lintflavored7238]

I just wanna throw this in: if you train every force-compatible character into a jedi, each one of them becomes infinitely more interesting. specifically handmaiden has some really cool connections to certain characters and the plot

[@TBrianOnline]

This video changed a big deal of my view on what KZbin can be good for instead of just a regular junk food for brain. It definitely helped me to be able to analyze things better and I'll be glad to follow this channel. I am writing my own series of books set in a fictional world and now I know how to approach a story structure and character development better than I used to. I might also seek out some person to give me a feedback on one of them to see how well I'm doing, hopefully someone as level-headed as you. :)

[@TracinyaLachance]

22:13 Not sure if this has been said already, but you can actually find this out WAY early in the game. I found out about Kreia being Darth Traya as early as Telos, which rather ruined my suspension of disbelief. I mean, why would I stick around with this person if I knew that so early? It makes no sense.

[@GabisonStudios]

Great video. Though I think you misunderstood one or two things. The Jedi masters tried to destroy the Exile because she is the living proof that their teachings are wrong on the most fondamental level, which is that life can exist without the Force, even more it can be done willingly, this simple fact negates all that they stand for, something they're not ready to accept wether by fear or arrogance. They spew bullshit about the Darkside and the Sith, because they don't want to see the truth. It is just like the first time the Exile was casted out, Atris began a rant about the darkside, but the others realized what really happened. And yet they could not accept it. (The confrontation is a call back to Kreia's exile by Sion and Nihilus, they couldn't accept Kreia's plans, for they depend on the Force like no other (in the case of Sion and Nihilus to an extreme never seen before), in that sense the Jedi masters and Sith Lords are alike in their dependence.) As Kreia says, the Exile has brought truth and yet they condemn it. And so, she shows them how the Exile perceives the world, she doesn't drain them them, she cuts them off. But it is too hard to bear for them, they choose death. This is the choice that the Exile faced at Malachor V and why the Exile is so special, it is something no other has done willingly. On a meta sense, this choice of cutting the Exile from the Force, explains why the Exile is the only one with independent agenda in game, we (as in the player) are independent from the scripts and mechanics of the game, we are free and thus our actions are the only one that matters (it is why Kreia is so adamant that you be careful with what you do). The last bit is my personal opinion, but I think it is also why, at the end of the game you lose control of the Exile, because the Exile "feels" the Force again and is thus brought back into this little game. That's Kreia's regret as she says, it was a mistake to make the Exile feel it again. But the Exile's actions carry on and will have repercussions like no other. It is also my opinion that the main difference between the Exile and Nihilus resides in the choice of Malachor V and the true lesson of strength. Nihilus like you said is a parasite, he feeds on others and survives like this. The Exile, is symbiotic to an extent, yes, but that is not the source of the Exile's power and not the real difference between the Exile and Nihilus. The Exile searches for power on the inside, that's the true lesson of strength, to turn away from strength that is not your own. And we know, that is the character trait of the Exile, because it is not a lesson of Kreia, it is a rediscovery of the choice of Malachor V. Kreia even says so during this interaction. Even a fully darksided Exile wouldn't end up like Nihilus, because the Exile doesn't search for strength outside (that's why even Kreia's death doesn't kill you), that's also why the Exile is so magnetic to the others, this pushes them to search within their true strength.

[@spacecowboy1438]

Honestly didn't know about Hanhar being a potential follower until I did some research on the different endings recently. Always found the Exchange very mysterious and interesting. I totally disagree with you about the Handmaiden I found her story 1000 times more memorable than Deciple. I honestly still won't do a female play through in fear of missing that character.

[@Jirodyne]

Yeaaah. The Disciple is why I never played a Female character in Kotor 2. He only exists, so they can say 'Look, you get choices! Based not just on if Light or Dark, but on if you're male or female! We're one upping the first game!'. *Facepalms*

[@anonymouse9960]

Probably the most boring character although Kreia has some fun with him

[@FirstLast-fr4hb]

I kind of wish they had done post release additions or something.

[@troo_6656]

You took on a dificuilt question and trivialized it to bare minimum in which you twisted some elements insted of trying to solve them. You dismiss some chracters without thinking. You are right about some things but only on surface level.

[@fuzzydunlop7928]

I appreciate your use of Kreia's scolding of the handmaiden - one of my favorite low-key quotes from her. Also, I agree.

[@troo_6656]

@@fuzzydunlop7928 You have my respect, not many people recognize this quote.

[@LordBaldur]

Darth Nihilus is a vampire of the force. He has a constant craving for the force and a ravenous hunger that cannot be quelled. The Exile on the other hand has no force. She broke off her connection to the force and resulted in a life form devoid of it. The reason she has the force is that she is a vacuum. The force tries its hardest to fill that vacuum without success. This is why she quick to making allies, why calamity follows her and why she attracts so much unwanted attention. It's the force headed towards her.

[@guudnewdle6910]

Query: Is there someone you need killed Master?

[@Hr1s7i]

The big thing I learned from playing kotor 2 was how to play pazaak. Worth it xD

[@crunkplaya6929]

I'm a shallow as mufuggah, but KOTOR II is easily my number ONE (No. 1) favorite game of all time. No. 2 being the first KOTOR....I grew up on epic RPGs like Chrono Trigger, Xenogears, FF VII, Fallout 2, Baldur's Gate, and Morrowind but nothing -- I mean nothing -- has come close to the sheer brilliance and excitement I feel when the adrenaline kicks in while playing Knight of the Old Republic II.

[@prestonr7734]

I hate the artwork that shows revan being taller than malak. It just looks completely off to me

[@nerdSlayerstudioss]

Agreed, Malak is supposed to be a giant man.

[@natxolin2441]

7:52 Disney buying the franchise is the real wound in the force Something star wars won't recover

[@guillecachaza6316]

Good analysis, but your description of the Handmaiden is utterly shallow. Most would agree that she has a very distinctive personality. Plus, there is no room for your dismissive comment about her small part on the story had you chosen to be a female character. The "canon" (whatever that means anymore) states that the Exile traveled with both the Disciple and the Handmaiden. If you don't get to have her as a companion is merely due to the game's mechanics.

[@brendancoulter5761]

True, my first playthrough I played female and later forgot that the diciple even existed cus he was so nothing, later I played male and surprise surprise, the handmaiden has a personality, and relationships with other characters, and a personal stake in the plot. Female PCs get cheated really.

[@mafian234]

Late AF, but that's why I play with the Handmaiden female exile mod! I mean, I appreciate the Disciple for what he meant to the story, but I just don't like him. Handmaiden is so much better

[@gdriscoll4947]

I think handmaiden is a decent character. She tells you about Atris and her backstory is pretty interesting. She's a badass with her echani training and becomes a really strong companion. I agree that the disciple is shallow af though.

[@A7XKoRnRocks1]

Also the fact that Kriea tells us that the Force is an echo and we shouldn't be helping out people who don't deserve it or should work themselves to achieve things otherwise it causes a ripple effect. I never though a Star Wars game would be telling me to reconsider who you help, it shows how deep the writers went into defining the story of this unique Star Wars game, it's like no other where good and evil are clearly defined.

[@tbone9474]

Disney movies aren't canon. To my mind anyway. KOTOR has some of the best companions and plot twist of its time. KOTOR 2 made me uncomfortable and I loved it for it

[@kronoscamron7412]

you don't get to enjoy end game , you spend the whole game building your character and your followers then, the game rushes you from one location to another then game over. there is also no cool places like yavin that you can stop and buy good equipment. even though it's more fleshed out than kotor but it also lacks other elements.

[@Ved000000]

Kreia: It's not the light or the dark side. Sion: No it's not! Kreia: It's not the Jedi or Sith, child. Sion: No it's not! Kreia: It's the Nihilus. Sion: You are correct! Kreia: So to all you Traya-haters out there, we'll eat your planet up! Nihilus: Sion: And you know that we got it! --- Exile: Bao-Dur! Get your ass over here right now. Quit monkeying around with that damn swoop bike. Where's those two crystals I told you to fix, boy? You upgrade my armor? Bao-Dur: Oh General, I know I'm probation, but can I go down to the Telos station? I got a layaway on some shield generators, but now you're treating me like a busted old freighter! Kreia: Bao-Dur, use the Hawk and run, run to Malachor! Run to Malachor! --- Kreia: I'm Kreia, call me Traya, I'll haze ya and daze ya, don't be impolite, judge me not by my sight, you won't believe your eyes upon the Ebon Hawk's flight. Bao-Dur: Traya, why you being a player-hater? You know I must still activate that generator. Kreia: Bao-Dur, this planet will die. Bao-Dur: But the Exile in the sky's still my favorite guy, what time there is I'll yet try to buy, but Traya - you're still gonna die. --- Traya: Impressive, now allow me mercy. The Jedi are all dead, or can't you see? Exile: But you cut them from the Force! Traya: A great warrior are you, but your methods are still coarse! Your companions are the final Jedi! Exile: You still allowed them all to die! Traya: There's something you fail to see, even in my final breath. Apathy is death! (Apathy is death) Apathy is death (apathy is death) Atton, Bao-Dur, Handmaiden, Visas, Canderous, HK-47, T3-M4, Goto, Mira, Disciple: Knock her out the box, Dur, knock her out!

[@ForgeAvid]

Drew Karpyshyn was responsible for the characters and the good and evil stuff. not the lead designer. Obviously

[@sladen3884]

KOTOR2 is always the answer to the question 'What would happen if actual fans of star wars were involved in making a star wars game?" Its always been pretty hilarious how the obvious crossover appeal of RPG fans and Star Wars fans has led us to exactly 2 rpgs (kotor 1&2) and one mmorpg cash grab... in the last 40 years.. KOTOR2 is the blueprint to how successful and massive the rpg niche market can be when applied to star wars, and they continue to trip over each other to make one-off movies and cartoons and ignore how successful and impactful KOTOR 1&2 were.

[@dreadrath]

Pity the Revan book threw away all the great philosophy and interesting lore KOTOR 2 built in favor of the same old "Dark VS Light - Bring Balance to The Force" formula. It was an alright book I suppose, but the author didn't really care to think outside of the box. Not a big fan of how Revan was portrayed either, especially in TOR where he sounds more arrogant and pompous than the Jedi Council ever were, and not at all charismatic. Maybe it's the writers way of poking fun at overzealous Revan fans.

[@kaitlyngarner740]

I really wish I could experience the full KOTOR 2. I don't play PC, I've never really liked playing on PC and have never really been able to afford a PC that can run games without glitches and jumpy gameplay (I played a bit of KOTOR 1 on PC). I've never really found a way to get the finished content mods on XBOX. If someone knows a way, please tell me because I really want to play the game again but I want to experience the full game

[@Firguy_the_Foot_Fetishist]

In this day and age, there's hardly any projects that have as much love and ambition put into them as Obsidian put in for KOTOR II and New Vegas. They can only be faulted for putting in too many intricate gameplay mechanics, fleshed-out characterization, and extensive world-building for them to meet their deadlines. Truly passionate game makers.

[@eyesofghost]

I dont want to go through kotor2 again, it was painful exp. I finished mass effect2 twice or thrice cause it feels i achieve something or feels reward. Kotor2 is cursed game.

[@sbam4881]

While I liked the overall game of KotOR 1 more, I strongly disagree with your view that KotOR 2's "bad guy" path isn't good. IMO, it's one of the very best of any RPG, period. It always annoys me that the evil path in RPGs devolves into pretty much acting like a douche low level thug rather than a godfather. Vito Corleone never kicked no puppies and he actually helped people in need and didn't kill anyone but direct enemies just like the good guys - but the mechanics force you not to act like that or you'll get good/light side/paragon points and must choose the stupidest things instead to stay the course. [Spoiler] In K1 they even force you to kill Mission even though there's absolutely no profit in doing so whatsoever (since she already stated categorically that she will never attack you first] compared to just ignoring her or letting her run away with Carth. Not so KotOR2. The petty thug options exist, but you don't need to do any of it at all. You can actually "win friends and influence people" by holding up your end of the bargain, just like on the "good" path and still get to max dark side. e.g. I remember on one dark-side mission I helped this General into power by killing the ruling Princess and her Jedi Counselors. Then it was time to get the quest reward and here was the General with a platoon of heavily armed soldiers. Having been at this point so many times before in other games, my finger was already on my lightsaber hotkey, thinking "yawn here we go, the dude is going to try to kill me instead of paying me, even though he knows I was capable of doing something his men could not and he'll get slaughtered instead...lame." Instead, not only does he honor his end, he adds something along the lines of, "I owe you and you will always be welcome on this planet. Even if one day the whole Jedi Council comes after you, you will always find friends and sanctuary here." Awesome, a developer who understand the concept of "honor among thieves."

[@puffin-onehandedgamer1164]

the reason Briana (the handmaiden) and Mical (the Deciple) are made rather bland is because you don't get them if you are the other gender. they can't have a big story plot or the game wouldn't work. In canon of the game, both Briana and Mical join your crew because they both become your deciples and man the Jedi Council after the game ends along with Atton, Visas and Mira (Spoilers: these can all be Jedi). But since they madfe the game the way they did, the Handmaiden and the Deciple were made bland and forgettable. To me however, Briana (the Handmaiden) isn't very forgettable. I like the game level where you save her from Atris and after this, she swears her loyalty to you. This only happens if you train her to become a Jedi. I really like this scene and this is something you don't get in the canon playthrough as you are female and you get the boring Mical instead that isn't as interesting unless you play Dark Side, then you can have Atton and him kill each other for your affection. another option is to get Micals affection up really high before Atton, but if you do this, you lose Atton as a companion. the same happens with the handmaiden and Visas. if you get Visas's affection up really high without getting the handmaiden up first, you lose her too. Afterwards you get a scene on Malacor 5 where they fight each other and you play as Mical/Visas and you have to kill the other one. but I think the restored mod didnn't let you play it, it just showed the cut scene. So pro tip: always get Atton/Briana's affection up first. Jedi master Vash was originally suppose to be on the droid planet and not on Korriban. If you have the restored mod with the droid planet, you will find her alive there, where if you only have the base game, you will find her dead in a cage on Korriban. it's really interesting story about her padawan actually. if you haven't played the droid planet I won't spoil it, but there is a reason her padawan thinks she's dead. 22:20 the way the favor/disfavor system works in this game is that having 22 favor with someone and having -22 favor is the same thing. So if you are playing a purely good character, you will have very heavy disfavor with Kreia, but that still unlocks her dialogs. it's the same with the T3M4 droid if you are dark, you can threaten to disassemble him and stuff and you get disfavor with them. And instead of mirroring you, they will be the opposite. if you are evil, they will be good if you do this. this is why I don't try to gain favor withKreia at all as a light side player, it is impossible. Atton and Bao-Dur go either way, they are easy, Visas too, same with Hanharr, he's just pure evil. What I did try a couple of times however, was to play it neutral, until I recruited Mira. so I played neutral and went to Nar shadda as my first planet after I could pick. then recruited her and then went dark. Then you get a dark sided Mira and she is a monster. if you haven't tried that you should, its fun. I haven't tried being Dark and getting Hanharr and then going lightside, that should be an interesting experiment. it will be harder because unlike Mira, who can be recruited at neutral, you need to be at least Dark 1 to get HanHarr

[@ronaldclayton8347]

Kotor 1+2 are a must for any star wars fan,I don't think I've ever been drawn in by a games story and character allies like these games.I love,the way becoming good or evil effects your force powers plus all the equipment throughout the game and being able to tinker with them especially in kotor 2 are brilliant RPG elements.Kotor 2 might not have the better story but it has so much more depth in it's rpg elements,now the choices don't just affect the main character the influence everyone,and now equipment and lightsabers have 3 accessory slots that allow you to tinker with and improve with an almost endless amount of upgrades.