KPAO PPL C172 Pre Solo Checkride (Fail)

[@alexramirez2739]

A CFI intimidating you is the second worst thing you can experience as a student pilot, the other being an emergency. I've fallen victim to that and I let it affect my flying, but over the course of my license I've learned to shut him off and continue with my flying and ignore his presence unless he was giving instructions or requests. Gotta love CFI's though, they always get you to be at the top of your game.

[@alk672]

The dude had the presence of mind to sidestep to the right during that completely unexpected (to him) go-around, that's a big win for a pre-solo student in my book...

[@dryreed]

This isn’t his instructor. It’s the chief pilot giving a pre-solo phase check as a cross check of the CFI’s solo endorsement.

[@rajeshsharangpani5278]

It takes a special kind of courage to post a video of a failed check. Hats off! Tough airport, I think you fly well.

[@chiefgstar8966]

I would never attempt to solo at this airport. That place is insanity 😂 The frequency never had a second clear

[@rocray]

Man, I can relate to this video. I'm not a pilot, but work at a FBO. I used to get so nervous doing checkrides for the airport. After a while, as you practice and the knowledge becomes ingrained in you, the nerves will subside. Good on you for posting this video. It couldn't have been easy, but I think it'll be a great teaching tool. I wish you luck man.

[@dixonp.4785]

If you're not a pilot, why were you involved in checkrides?

[@LipSync2011]

@@dixonp.4785 I'm assuming they mean airport driver road test "checkrides." Part 139 airports require you to undergo driver training which typically involves a road test where you prove to the airport that you can safely drive around the airport without causing a runway incursion, cutting off airplanes, or breaking an ILS critical area for example

[@dixonp.4785]

@@LipSync2011 word, I didn't even consider that.

[@RashidAhmed-or1ee]

@@dixonp.4785 We call them checkrides loosely, but what they are is Practical Tests. You do realize that these Practical Tests are all throughout the FAA right? Aircraft Maintenance Technicians go through practical tests all the time by someone called DME (Designated Mechanic Examiner). The FAA is not just for pilots, there are other personnel that go through these tests as well.

[@dixonp.4785]

​@@RashidAhmed-or1ee Oh wow I though A&Ps just got their certs from the local gas station. Guess they're all taking "checkrides"

[@kevincollins8014]

Way too much traffic in that pattern which only creates a high stress situation. Being a student I wouldn't have had any problem telling him I'm leaving that mess and we can go fly some maneuvers or something until it calms down. Between the busy comms and his sour attitude, 8 aircraft in the pattern and his sour attitude. That's enough to rattle alot of people. I'm glad to hear you did better on your next flight. I just personally think there was a major task saturation for a student pilot. Thanks for sharing this with us all. There's a lot to learn here.

[@curtisaitken7027]

Sooo isn’t part of the point of a check ride (this situation) is to let a student understand the saturation level they can/can’t handle and make the choice to say…”let’s not do this?” With a CFI in the right seat it’s always a learning environment?

[@alphazulu3625]

That field is insane. Your instructor is an ass when you make a mistake. It's his entire demeanor and he just seems belittling and degrading. That's unnecessary. Either way, best of luck to you and keep up the good work. Figure out a way to keep calm under pressure, I feel your nerves got the better of you. And remember your priorities, number 1 being AVIATE.

[@tgrind2586]

I agree. The entire time I couldn’t stop thinking that I would be very frustrated if this was my cfi. Very down putting

[@ron4969]

To many questions, you are not ready, get more training!

[@coolcolin09]

I trained at KPDK in Atlanta which is similarly busy at peak hours. We did most training leading up to solo at uncontrolled, less busy airports. I will say, even though it's not a great training environment when it comes to learning the stick and rudder, I am way ahead of my peers as far as communications goes. Learning in this environment really helps to develop the ability to paint your surroundings in 3 dimensions. Makes you a more intuitive/aware pilot. The main downside is the .3 hours per flight waiting on the ground adding to the $$$.

[@jamesbabbath5306]

I feel like nerves got the better of you. I've been in situations like that where it seems like your mind just goes blank and it is incredibly demoralizing, but you have to keep your head on your shoulders, hit the practice yard some more, and push on. I hope you were successful on your next attempt, and thank you for having the guts to post this on KZbin - you cannot underestimate the value something like this has.

[@laxatives]

Yeah you're right, I think it was mostly nerves and flying with someone other than the CFI, who I already have a good rapport with. Next attempt went much more smoothly. In general, reviewing the lessons has been extremely valuable. Its so easy to miss things from my CFI while processing new tasks/info and been nice reviewing all the errors/feedback on my own time. Figured this flight I might want to revisit long into the future just for laughs.

[@jamesbabbath5306]

@@laxatives I'm glad to hear that. And yea I think that's an awesome thing to do - there's a reason professional athletes review footage from previous contests and practices. It sounds like you're handling it really well, when you can laugh at past mistakes that's usually a good sign that you've learned from them, improved and moved on. God knows I have a ton of mistakes I look back on and laugh at now lol

[@potatopilot16]

@@laxatives How are you doing in your training so far?

[@laxatives]

@@potatopilot16 Finished my PPL last year. Just cruising around to build up hours before starting on my instrument rating!

[@potatopilot16]

@@laxatives hey! Nice! Thats good to hear :)

[@freakfly23]

You failed on the ground after the taxi mistake. The instructor intimidated you and it got to you. Been there, done that. You gotta keep going no matter what. That's the only thing that will save you when you're by yourself and it all goes wrong.

[@xenadu02]

Since this video was made KPAO did an apron and taxiway renovation. All the parking areas have assigned letters and ground gives explicit taxi instructions. The way he went would now be Whiskey (the row he was parked at) Uniform Yankee to runup. No more "terminal side".

[@dixonp.4785]

Remind me to never go to this field. Insanity.

[@thomady]

most CFIs are not supposed to be like this.

[@dryreed]

It’s just the usual merry go round on a calm clear day at Palo Alto. NBD!

[@adityanair5613]

@@thomady He isn't his CFI, he's the chief pilot doing a phase check.

[@KimWentworth-y8e]

Agree, Especially with how the CFI's teach their students at that field. Sketchy. PS, I live in Southern CA and our fields are busy like that. Try flying out of Charlie - John Wayne airport with a jet landing on the parallel runway. Cautions Wake turbulence. You have to know who to deal with this before you fly it in the pattern. You can not control what is going to happen in the pattern, so the student needs to be exposed to all of it including Charlie airspace.

[@russellshermer8114]

That’s was rough to watch. Too much going on I think. I hope this wasn’t really a pre check ride flight....not ready at this point. Keep at it!

[@jphutube]

It says pre-solo, not pre-check. Would probably be the checkride before letting the student solo in the pattern. Definitely needs some work.

[@adammolinari9028]

I thought the CFI was very good tbh, he was stern, but not mean in any way in my opinion. That's how you learn, and the things that he told him will be burned into his brain and will help him in his future career.

[@alhassant9204]

CFI seemed okay. It looks like the student had far too many nerves and lacked confidence

[@LearnToFlyWithPilotGuy]

First of all my background: I've been a full-time instructor for nearly 15 years holding a gold seal CFI. I have given over 7,000 hours of instruction. There's something to be learned from this video but it's not based on the title. The thing to be learned from this video is that for the Private Pilot certificate, stage checks have no place other than generating additional revenue for instructors and for the fbo. Why do I say this? Imagine you're having your transmission replaced at a center that SPECIALIZES in replacing transmissions. You are told that after you pay the labor for the initial mechanic you're going to pay labor for another mechanic just to make sure that the FIRST mechanic installed the transmission correctly. A rational person would ask the question - why should they pay an additional fee for yet another person to do work that they are certificated to doing correctly, in the first place? Wouldn't you ask that repair facility,,, isn't your initial mechanic competent and capable of producing a transmission replacement that will function reliably without having another person check their work? A competent instructor should be able to take you through each of the stages of learning to fly including prep for check ride without needing a double check. In fact, one would argue, that it would seem at first glance, to be concern on the part of the flight school about the capabilities of their instructors? Wouldn't you think so? Again ask yourself if you would pay two mechanics to do the same job that you're paying a mechanic to do? If the school pushes stage checks for PRIVATE PILOT certificate, then find a QUALIFIED independent instructor instead.

[@emstephan7440]

I’m quite sure that clubs such as this one, where I happen to be a CFI, are safer places due to these phase checks. How can getting a third party perspective not be helpful? I am about as thorough with my students as I can possibly be, but I’m always happy to have my students receive feedback from a trusted colleague. Additionally, I’m quite sure that our insurance premiums at this club are as low as they are because of our safety record, which is partially credited to the system of accountability we have in place. I’ve also been a teacher for more than 20 years, not just in aviation. Any endeavor to master a new skill is aided by multiple streams of feedback.

[@Octav4homemade]

@@emstephan7440 Completely agree with this point of view. As a pre-solo student who recently had a similar stage check (different airport and school), I can say: 1) it felt reassuring to have a second opinion on my capability. I don't think I know enough to confidently say for myself "I'm definitely ready for solo", and while I do trust my primary instructor with my life (quite literally actually, haha... for obvious reasons), we're all humans and can make mistakes. He only had 10-12 hours to judge me afterall. In aviation we always have (or try to have) backups over backups, so an extra opinion is very important for safety. 2) it was another great learning experience. The chief pilot who did the stage check is more experienced and this translated into some new tips that will stick with me. He also had a great way to make me look somewhere else and then suddenly pull the power on me for a simulated engine out - and see how I deal with it ^^. In short, it wasn't just a stage check, but also a training in the sense that we discussed how I can improve. 3) it's good to be put in a slightly more stressful situation - such as flying with someone new who you know is doing a stage check on you. You have to be able to handle the pressure, otherwise you risk freezing or panicking in a real-world emergency when you only have yourself to count on. Regarding @Cecil E analogy with the mechanic for the car - it's a fun one but not sure it applies when it comes to aviation. To play in the same train-of-thought: the consequences of the first mechanic doing a poor job on your transmission replacement are not really life threatening => but going up for the first solo without being truly ready can quickly turn bad. So I'd definitely take my car someplace else if they asked me to pay for a second mechanic's check. But for my flight training, I was quite happy to pay for the pre-solo stage check.

[@VinceCartierBeats]

Yea I hear your argument but I feel stage checks actually helps the student. After flying with the same instructor for while they and you can become complacent. It’s always good to have another pair of eyes to clarify and fine tune what needs to be adjusted.

[@loganpeterson2013]

Given the amount of times I have been disappointed by work by mechanics and needed to get an issue fixed again, I would gladly pay to have another mechanic check behind mine. He may be a specialist, but he's still human. He's going to miss things, and the extra set of eyes does nothing but make the process more efficient, and in the case of aviation, safer. If I'm going to go up in a plane by myself for the first time ever, I would much prefer to have multiple trusted eyes give me a look and the thumbs up before I carry on.

[@KimWentworth-y8e]

I liked having another CFI check to make sure I was competent to solo. Also, not sure what school this is but seems like their CFI's are not very good. The student is lacking some basic skills and knowledge and should never of been recommended for a solo checkride. Understanding flaps, being able to land with short final. Knowing how to do a safe and proper go around. Seems like a lot of the schools lack ground training, and you have to get your ground training from some on line course. I think the on line training course is good but I think a good flight school should offer a ground school with exams that you have to pass. The on line training course to me supplements the flight schools ground school. I learned a lot more in my ground school at my school. The flight school also needs to do additional grounds. Yes the school makes more money but flying is not cheap. I did not see that CFI ask the student to do any power off emergency landings. Also, I heard nothing about the safety briefing. I seem to be finding that we are getting more clown pilots up there.

[@KimWentworth-y8e]

This student pilot needs a new CFI. One that can teach him properly. You can really get in trouble on a go around if you forget to take one set of flaps out.

[@sgtango4310]

I have my checkride in 4 days and this would be a niggtmare for me even now. I have been in busy airports, but this is just insane

[@bsswandgaming1730]

Honestly, I didn't really see anything wrong with the CFI, he is teaching him when needed, telling him how to improve. Nothing jumped out at me as toxic, or anything. He is serious, but nothing wrong with that.

[@KimWentworth-y8e]

I think he was a terrible CFI. The student lacked some fundamentals and needed to demonstrate proper use of flaps and teach the student how to do a short approach. He was down putting, He made is tense in the airplane and his teaching was not great. Learning to fly should be fun and yes it's serious but you still need to make it fun and teach the reason why you need flaps and when to put them in and what flaps to take out on a go around.

[@Tyler-pq6wp]

I think you would have better success adding flaps much earlier. Know your V speeds, you dumped flaps at 85 knots (which is fine), but had you been over it would have been over Vfe. Good luck on your next try! You got it. You should practice coming in at 65 or so knots, and flaps down. Don’t let this get ya down!

[@crohr1000]

C-172 10° flaps below 110 kt flaps 10 to full below 85 Read POH

[@Grandbuffle]

@@crohr1000 Not for all Cessna. 172N Vfe is 85.

[@crohr1000]

@@Grandbuffle I fly on N. You don't get it, Vfe is below 85, but you can go flaps 10° on 110 and below, and for more flaps you need to be 85 or below. It's in POH

[@Grandbuffle]

@@crohr1000 In which section of POH it says that ?

[@crohr1000]

@@Grandbuffle like Iam gonna go through it again... Find it yourself

[@johnrumpf8559]

Hope it went better the next time around. Stop taking your hand of the throttle when you’re landing. If you have to give it power on a moments notice you don’t want to spend an extra 2 seconds moving your hand. Also, take you’re time. It seems that you’re getting flustered

[@KimWentworth-y8e]

PS, I was flying a different Piper which had a heavier engine and it seemed nose heavy. I went to flare and my left hand was not doing the job so I had to immediately give my right hand some assistance to flare and then the put my hand back on the throttle. Not great but my right hand alone was not going to flare the aircraft in time. I will have to time nose up a lot more. But do not like to put a lot of nose up in case of a go around. New airplane that I flew.

[@henry-joepasarell566]

41:01 man flaps full up immediately, you gotta be careful

[@noah5889]

gonna drop like a rock

[@themooseknuckle840]

Yea everyone is being tough on the chief pilot doing a cross check for his cfi but this kid definitely wasn’t ready for a solo. Planes are nothing to play with. Full flaps up are a good way to get yourself killed.

[@KimWentworth-y8e]

Kaboom

[@spencermillard6493]

Awful CFI and terrible learning environment

[@adityanair5613]

He isn't his CFI, he's the chief pilot doing a phase check.

[@potatopilot16]

This is how it's done actually. You can't be taught with "hand-holding" and as Aditya Nair said; this is a pre-solo stage check, it's to catch anything the student may not know before they solo for the first time.

[@Ifly1976]

Choose your flight school carefully. How busy the airport is should be a factor in your decision making process for several reasons. The Hobbs meter is merciless, it will multiply your flight training costs exponentially. Busy airports also create the environment seen here.

[@julietbravoaviation]

"Hobbs meter is merciless" No truer words have ever been spoken $$$

[@KimWentworth-y8e]

Not on center line and lot's of mistakes but that CFI seems to be making it tense in that airplane. Learning should be fun. This student is not ready but the teaching needs to be better by this CFI.

[@carsonwilliams2449]

y'all this is not his teacher. this CFIs job is to see if he can safely do everything needed alone with no problem. he's only a student so its understandable, but I think he failed in the first couple of minutes. tbh tho this vid made me feel a lot better about mine in 3 days.

[@carsonwilliams2449]

failing is not a bad thing, it only helps u get better and fix your mistakes. if a CFI passes student pilots without caring, ppl would die and get hurt.

[@cesarm1347]

41:01 that was scary. Panic is your biggest enemy

[@TimothyConnolly-q3o]

The check pilot was such a hole. Like it’s the kids first stage check he’s already stressed enough no need to intimidate him more

[@salami4184]

This seems like the worst airport to train😂 one runway with all this traffic? What the hell😂

[@KoPilotFlys]

How did he know it was a solo checkride? Did his instructor tell him if he does OK this time out he will let him go solo? When I did my first solo I had no clue I was going to solo that day, My instructor just treated it like any other lesson. The only difference was at the end of the lesson after taxi to parking my instructor told me not to shut down and that he was going to jump out and he wanted me to go and do three circuits with touch and goes. If I would of failed the checkout for my first solo I probably would of had no clue I failed, it would of been just another lesson for that day.

[@ladoe7239]

For some schools, the checkride is done by a different CFI, not the one who did the daily training with the student. It's a kind of double confirm/cross check, make sure the student can do the solo. The student has been told the fight would be pre-solo checkride while schedule it I guess.

[@KoPilotFlys]

@@ladoe7239 Yeah I never went through that, it was my regular instructor who sent me on my first solo. When he felt I was good to go he sent me. Without telling me ahead of time, there was no prepping for it lol. It was my regular instructor who also sent me on my first solo cross country. The only other instructor I ever flew was the examiner when I was doing my PPL test.

[@timothyhewitt9439]

You should definitely be talking though your checklists out loud and brief your taxi before going.

[@zackjshaw9776]

Don’t fly with two hands

[@nal2us2]

How much money have you spent for training thus far? How much did it cost to get a re-test for another check ride?

[@jasons5915]

Why is this solo checkride equivalent to the PPL level? Solo level will make mistakes as long as they aren’t dangerous.

[@davidross1332]

Watch the plane at 7:03, pretty weird! lol

[@sparky6200]

You need to get a new CFI bro

[@crohr1000]

What is he talking you can do the slip without flapa?? In 172 you can only do it without flaps. You Can not do it with flaps. Its in POH Maybe you fly some new model witch can so slip with 10°??

[@guardpolice3913]

I think it’s only Cessna 172s and 150s that can go to 40 flap that it isn’t allowed, for p models and beyond it’s acceptable to slip with full flap

[@garty2]

I fly a 172K, M, N, and P and they all say avoid slips with flaps not slips with flaps prohibited

[@VGamesAreFun]

172s Nav II model we do 30 degrees for a slip.

[@williamshipercussion]

@@guardpolice3913 flying 172R and S model and can slip any any flap config

[@thejackbox]

It says to AVOID slips with flaps not that slips are prohibited.

[@MrJoggl]

Tug or Tow only...

[@jackbrasier-creagh9139]

Pilot needs more training.

[@henry-joepasarell566]

man where is your situational awareness????!!!!!

[@joshuapayne9811]

Cfi is condescending

[@mrbigdu]

CFI's like this just need to quit. Arrogant, impatient, not helpful.

[@tuckerwhite2533]

Nahhhh this ain’t it man! The frequency clogged as hell! You’re instructor/check guy super scary! AND A FLOCK OF BIRDS ON FINALLLL! who ever ur instructor is… is at fault here terrible conditions.

[@shyammohabir8283]

This CFI should not be teaching student pilots!

[@adityanair5613]

He isn't his CFI, he's the chief pilot doing a phase check.

[@themooseknuckle840]

@@adityanair5613 Yea a lot of these people have no clue what they’re talking about. “Awwww the poor meanie flight instructor didn’t just let little billy get rid of all his flaps on a go around” The chief pilot did a great job I believe. That guy was not ready to solo

[@KimWentworth-y8e]

I agree that the student pilot is not ready to solo and the CFI had to step in a few times for very unsafe actions such as dumping all of the flaps for a go around and so on. And the CFI had to raise his voice on that . I agree on that. The CFI He needed to act. However, listen to the CFI when they first started out. The CFI seems arrogant.

[@shyammohabir8283]

@@themooseknuckle840 I agree the student is not ready for solo.. He missed the taxi instruction, go around procedures with flaps etc .. but the CFI or Chief pilot or who ever he is - he was rude, arrogant and just full of himself!

[@shanelodge391]

Unprepared student, poor CFI conducting the check.