Black Locust & PVC (WILL IT BOW)

[@kramerammonsarchery]

Use code KRAMER50 to get 50% OFF your first Factor box plus 20% off your next month of orders at bit.ly/3UU2oK0

[@40SnWfan]

Backyardbowyer has a 40# pvc bow. You should check it out.

[@Finnmitten]

Been doing marine and aircraft composites builds and repairs. Clamps tend to produce poor bonding compared to vacuum bagging. With a decent stretch bag, breather, peel ply, bleeder you can apply a much better, evenly pressured and no air bubles. A clamp might apply a 100 pound pressure at one spot but 2 inch away its gonna be like 30 pounds. Its gonna create resin rich spots that dont bend. A good vacuum will apply roughly 29 pounds per square inch. Over 4000 pounds on a 12x12 surface. Thats how air planes parte are made. I managed to do some vacuum with a cheap materials such as shopvac and trash bags.

[@shadowcastre]

Interesting..! The 2 types of pvc are not the same. I agree that the clear flexible pvc only adds durability. You need to do the same bow using flattened pvc pipe. I think youll get added poundage that way. Thanks for the video...

[@beowulfshaeffer8444]

Yeah, I used to have a white PVC cutting mat that was about the same thickness as that clear sheet and was no were near so flexible.

[@Hikieblitz]

Yeah the pipe is most likely high density PVC and the flexible would probably be low density, besides that the low density probably has some releasing agent on it or an addition in the molecular structure to make it low density making it not react with the epoxy. In Low density PVC the molecular structure is more spread out making it act more like a fluid hence the felxibility I don't know for sure how epoxy works in if it reacts to the molecules for what it's making it stick or just being very adhesive but I think its probably because its low density.

[@mikemacleod9427]

I used flattened pvc to make the mounts for some removable DIY pontoons that can attach to a canoe (or originally a prototype for a modular boat that can assemble and disassemble on the water while in motion. Think “old school power rangers mechs”)…..sweet, right? In any case when I put them on a canoe and rock the thing side to side; the flattened pvc actually had some spring and seemed to push the boat back upright. I had to scrap the boat itself due to lack of storage while I worked out some engagement issues while assembling in motion. But the pontoons make an excellent “anti roll” device for very young or novice canoe and kayak enthusiasts.

[@EP-zl3gj]

I just finished my 1st bow thanks to your channel. Ordered some arrows that came in this morning and Im gonna test it this weekend. Hickory 25lbs bow. Thank you very much for your content, I discovered a new hobby that I like a lot

[@Syrkyth]

BackyardBoyer (Nick Tomihama) made tons of purely PVC bows back in the day. Interesting stuff!

[@shmuckling]

Nick is the man! As far as I'm aware he invented the PVC bow. Funny, I was just sifting through some clutter in my attic earlier and saw a dozen PVC bows I made back in 2014 because I got hooked on his channel. His blowgun and darts builds were also the best I've seen on KZbin since - I ended up making a couple of SCARY powerful blowguns, I had no idea blowguns could hit that hard until then.

[@caseysmith544]

@@shmuckling No he did not but he did invent modern recurve designs where you heat up bow using heat gun and bend into shape. Before his designs people were using gun heated flat limb designs or a round limb longbow more prone to shatter where limb tips were a hardwood or for some who had it, horn/antler. I almost used gray type PVC in a few sizes used for holding electricity in open the kind made for sun resistance and use a heat gun to heat PVC onto a Bear gray fiberglass Titan so I could have a Bow at my 24--24.5 inch draw pulling 45 pounds. However, I finally found a small Bow company, Great Plains Archery Company willing to make a bow for me from the Youth Longbow model in hickory at 45 pounds where bow models in youth are made for a 24 inch draw but can be used up to a 29 inch draw safely.

[@Tradbow85]

I remember watching those

[@markfergerson2145]

Was he the guy who stuffed fiberglass rods into the pvc pipe and then heat formed the pvc around them (no glue iirc)? They worked great but looked a little strange.

[@caseysmith544]

Yes, another of the modern PVC bow designs the Backyard Boyer pioneered or made more widely known was a bow using Fiberglass rods for inner bow strength. Another was to use flexible Conduit/Electrical PVC inside white pipe schedule 40 for a high poundage bow but some in operation longer type PVC bowyers May have used same technique in past only they were using all white pipe for inner and outer and heating bow so you had a flat bow. I'm wondering if using a screw in part for a PVC bow and keeping round and screwed together I could have a 2 piece takedown longbow or long-recurve made not using friction?

[@Couponuser16]

I'm pretty sure Black Locust the wood that was used by the Cherokee for their warbows? And Cherokee Warbows could be big bows, 69" long at times that would resemble English Yew Longbows in shape + size. From what I've heard, Black Locust is one of the premier woods for bowmaking alongside Osage Orange and Yew. Pretty cool to see you make your first bow using this wood.

[@masonmp1889]

yes it was used by chacktaw and other southern tribes

[@larrywilliams9139]

Black locust is the original Cherokee bow material. Also, honey locust sapwood is very serviceable bow material.

[@Handles_AreStupid]

14:15, that blur turned your weight guage into an among us character. Once you see it, you won't unsee it...

[@ArseLicker-p4o]

I would be implied to roughing up the PVC by giving it a light sanding so the apoxy has something to adhere to..

[@markoneil6562]

I've made 3 bows thanks to your channel. It's a really enjoyable hobby. But what if you took actual schedule 40 pvc pipe and cut it length wise and heated it and flattened it out, and then cut out a backing out of that? That might add more stored energy into the bow with not a lot of additional draw weight.

[@Robert-y2k7s]

1:05 I don’t think that is PVC. I think that is plain vinyl. PVC is a kind of vinyl. Vinyl not not PVC. That is why, later you don’t get any luck using epoxy glue to adhere to the vinyl film..

[@rontz]

Key takeaways: 1: you can f up your backing several times and still end up with a good bow 2: Kramer is cutting food in a strange way 🤪

[@mtnsloper55]

Kramer, ive made quite a few black locust bows and have had good luck with them unbacked. Cant remember breaking any. I always use a heat gun on the belly until the grain gets a light purple flush. The heat adds many pounds to the draw weight. I try to follow a ring on the back which can be tough because it' can be hard to see if you break through. Might not be critical anyway. Young trees grow straight and are pretty easy to find here in So Cal mountains. Maybe you can find them also in your area. Blessings!

[@brandonminer749]

I've always wanted to try this! Thank you! They DEEPLY score horn when it's applied to a bow; perhaps roughing up the PVC with some aggressive sand paper would give you the surface area the glue needs. OH! I just got to that part of the video lol

[@aaronpeoples2021]

Kramer I love you're humble approach at bow building . Thank you for process of sharing information.... Fellow bowyer.

[@anatineduo4289]

I thought you were going to use pvc pipe for the belly as a horn substitute. The vinyl sheeting is not stiff enough and will not add anything but mass. Fun project though, thank you for sharing.

[@CamilleSmisek-gi8xe]

I have made one bow with red oak and fiber glass backing. Worked quite well. I want to try this now.

[@deadlymedley3306]

This is awesome, thank you so much for making this video. I tested this with a popsicle stick (since they're usually made of birch) by bonding a couple strips of 3d printed material to both sides used a luggage scale to see the difference of that vs ordinary popsicle stick and that made it like more than twice as strong and powerful! I've always wanted to be able to make composite materials out of 3d printed material but was never able to until I watched this video!

[@ouchfoss]

I've always wanted to make a bow and back it with a fish skin of some sort like catfish, sturgeon, halibut or lingcod. I remember reading about that type of backing in a book I had a while back when I was into bow building. Would be real cool to see the unique patterns of fish on stick flinger. You should give a try at some point, would be cool to satisfy my curiosity.

[@Tradbow85]

I've used catfish skin, seen som3 with car skin that was gorgeous.

[@Jezzyftw]

I was hoping to see ya break the bow. I would have loved to see how the backing reacts to a snap; maybe this material could be worth using just for that.

[@Six4691]

I haven’t watched the end but my first thought is that the freezer curtain is too thin to work, but the epoxy might help. I’ll follow up after watching the results. Well, I stand corrected, great job! Love these will it bow videos.

[@TL50-r9f]

Black locust never rots. never knew it was that flexible. kool..

[@fallenhobbit6554]

in east texas all the old farm fences that are just grey old tree trunks. yup. black locust

[@rchong91]

your passion for your work is inspiring

[@robertmooney1492]

As a bowyer and general woodsmith, etc, I'm wondering where hes getting the clear PVC, im a fan of unorthodox backing materials . Anyone know how I can get some?

[@ScottGraham-fy3pr]

It's the same material they use on walk-in coolers and freezers the clear flaps. You should be able to get some at a online cooler supply company. I believe they call him a door damn.

[@dustymichael3425]

hi i like your show what is CA glue so i can try it myself thankyou

[@musaadfelton3909]

Finally someone experimented with this. Thanks for sharing this Kramer. Awesome. I never got to trying this out yet but you answered this question i had.

[@brightantwerp]

I love how you don't give up. That's inspiring.

[@TheRealRomansThirteen]

If you put string silencers on it won't that take some of the vibration out?

[@seafoohotman]

What is that scraper you're using to shave off small bits at a time? Is it just a square bench scraper kinda?

[@jonathanp___________3606]

PVC accepts plasticizers, which are basically just additives that make it more flexible, really well, that's why it can range so much in stiffness.

[@seandowning342]

I learned a lot just watching this video. Would you (or have you) posted a video about how to sharpen a scraper?

[@AnonymousBot-j1j]

How you're taking actual shape of bow like perfect

[@FYahooo]

What glue worked??

[@gregtessmer5310]

When might you put the new mountain bow for sale ? Thanks

[@OdieHungary]

How much was a drying time of this CA glue?

[@beowulfshaeffer8444]

Checked Britannica, and the curtain is something called "Plasticized PVC." It's a mix with up to 50% other chemicals, such as DEHP, so it's effectively not the same plastic as the pipes or the large and *already flattened* cutting mats. Side note: I wonder if "PVC glue" works to bond PVC to porous materials like wood, since it really just acts like a solvent to help bond PVC to itself...

[@Tradbow85]

How much mass weight was that backing?

[@carlstrand927]

For one thing, the clear sheets of PVC don't have the pigment in it two. They've been polished and finished to be clear three. They're probably still coated in release agent from when they were made

[@TheCheeseManIsComingForYou]

Try the PVC pipe. It flattens easily with heat and pressure. Should be able to cut it, flatten it into a sheet, and then cut it to size and glue it to the wood.

[@Danny.._]

8:51 PVC pipe is 100% PVC. That flap material is probably only about 15% PVC or less and mostly made of DINP, so you'd have to find a glue that works for DINP, not PVC.

[@DK_HAXX]

Looks nice! And modernly interesting. You could even add your name/logo/brand/information in between the layers. Would look so cool.

[@stevenmcgarry4862]

There's different types and applications to the PVC what u where using looks like it has silicone coating or mixed in the process do to its shean makes it harder for things to stick to it witch is probly why it pealed up right away for the first attempt

[@RezzoCreeSavage69]

you should try those wooden back scratchers you buy in the stores.

[@strub6732]

Do you think you could do this with white oak?

[@SBDScott]

I would also like to see a comparable bow, made with the white pvc also, I think it would add pound age, while being able to tiller more, making the limbs snap faster, making it a faster bow. Thanks again for such a great, entertaining video!

[@justanormalfish4440]

can you make a will it bow from a bike frame?

[@xjade11.11]

Just curious, how many ft/m are you shooting in your workshop? Thank you.

[@shmuckling]

This is awesome! I've been hoping you'd give PVC a try. I think the white pipe SCHL 40 PVC would make an even better backing, but this does look really good and it seems to work great!

[@jhallack7491]

Thanks, Mr. Ammons!

[@larryadams2184]

I need some advice. What's the best way to glue snake skin to the bones bow.

[@Tradbow85]

Hide glue or TB2 for sure

[@larryadams2184]

Thanks 👍

[@4estral]

I'd like to see you do this with more extreme materials like flattened regular PVC and a brittle wood like Juniper or Easter Red Cedar

[@wildcountryboynation2455]

I say this in love because I love your show and I think you're a cool guy PVC actually does make a great bow standing alone there used to be a KZbin channel where a guy would make strong heavy bows out of PVC anywhere nail drivers I think that heaviest one he made was 80 lb and the arrows hit hard and the bow was actually quiet

[@UnlimitedMercy]

I think you should try a canvas drop cloth as an inexpensive backing…

[@Syrkyth]

Seeing as this is kind of a toe into the realm of composite bow making: what's the heaviest drawn bow you've made so far? Was it the Bamboo 100lber? Any plans to do a traditional (gut, sinew or horn laminations) composite bow build?

[@jessewilliams102]

I bet you could get the first strip of plastic to adhere if you sanded the surfaces and wipe them with xylene for thinning epoxy so it would grab deeper through the surfaces.

[@brihno360]

I’ve seen you make bows out of some interesting woods, which got me wondering if white waxwood might be a possibility

[@brihno360]

Apparently it’s also known as Chinese Privet

[@Finnja76]

May seem silly, but I'd love to see a video about card scrapers. They are a totally overlooked tool.

[@miken7629]

To bond PVC to epoxy first coat the PVC with PVC glue and let it dry, epoxy will bond to dried PVC glue.

[@blitzkriegfritz2779]

Did you degrease the pvc first?

[@lordscan1047]

The army of Attila the hun made composite bows to make the bows shorter so his soldiers could fire arrows while riding horses.// Maybe clear pvc is not as porous as pvc pipe, maybe that was the issue with your glue bonding, but you did sand the clear pvc... weird. Great video.

[@aeliascent1174]

This video is really informative! Can you try using bed frame slats or maybe wooden window blinds next?

[@conradobillan]

Tere are diferent kinds of pvc ir depends what the use You need

[@donwaldroopoutdoors3665]

Man im going out to dinner for my 31 yr anniversary and this popped up now got 2 things get excited about!!!! Love these type videos

[@trevorstewart1308]

I’ve got a lot of black locust, so I’ve been wondering about this

[@oMusic93]

You shouldve roughed the PVC material up with sandpaper or whatever like you did with the handle section in the $15 bow build video. More surface for glue/epoxi to hold on to

[@4theloot638]

Just saw one of your video thumbnails with a form and had and thought, I bet you'd be able to make some awesome skateboards too.

[@mandolinman2006]

I wouldn't mind having one of your bows one of these days.

[@AaronC.]

A bow made out of pvc could work very well!

[@francisjohncarranza878]

Before applying epoxy.. you need to scratch the whole surface area of the plastic to make sure the epoxy grabs hold the plastic..

[@mortneff4674]

Why wouldn't you use the glue that they use for PVC Pipes and fittings???

[@АлександрЕвгеньевичУшаков]

Одни из самых дорогих луков обтягивались с одной стороны кожей, а с другой сухожилиями. Такой лук мог иметь небольшую силу в плечах, зато момент ускорения был гораздо выше нежели у простых деревянных луков

[@garfthetoast6367]

You should make a bow with only pvc always wanted to see that i know it doesn’t showcase your craftsmanship as much but interesting

[@dontknowsht8771]

i got a bit confused, what was the glue that actually worked?

[@caseysmith544]

CA Glue or industrial version of Superglues like Loctite.

[@dontknowsht8771]

@@caseysmith544 thank you

[@bienyamientoefy1923]

❤❤yes ipvc will work.

[@Jah_gz-uu3fs]

This chanel should have more viewers

[@geisonminuzzogeison9144]

were the viwers?

[@kramerammonsarchery]

Oh wow, you found this as an unlisted video! It will go live soon! Thanks for watching!

[@stephenbinion6348]

Ohio

[@jimf1964]

And if you make like 50 of them, you could make a walk through door of bows for the freezer! 😀

[@MrThewetsheep]

I’d love to see you make an asiatic bow. Laminated eastern style bows are super fast.

[@brianyates9066]

They're nothing but a gourmet TV dinner with more and fancier chemicals to make them taste better😮😮😮😮

[@hibahprice6887]

you could buy two square meters of fiberglass, extract two meters of strands from it, and they would serve much better than stretchy plastic! But you will have to use EA 40 epoxy resin with plasticizer

[@kasperpengell1984]

i would love to see you make the double bow from farcry primal

[@meadowlarkadventuregear]

You went in the completely opposite direction than I thought you were going when I saw the thumbnail and even in the beginning of your explanation… it’s the schedule 40 that has the amazing compression qualities and locust likes to fret…

[@jasonthulen]

Keep doing what you’re doing. Love the content and the information.👍

[@TheLonghunterBowyer]

Great video man

[@vandar42]

Go go, for will it bow 🎉 nice bro 👌 👏

[@vhaelen326]

i mean it should be obvious those two are different types of pvc... given that one is hard and breaks rather then bends and one is flexible and bends rather then breaks... thats a pretty obvious difference i wouldve thought^^

[@larryadams2184]

Yes there's many

[@webbiergoose2032]

thats a nice belt sander bro

[@JasonHurricane]

Focus Kramer FOCUS

[@adam-k]

I think it was a mistake to use that flexible PVC instead of the tube the rigid one. I am pretty sure the flexible one would stretch making it kind of pointless. Personally I would like to see a video with the rigid PVC on the belly of the bow. So kind of as a replacement for horn

[@conradobillan]

Beautyfull bow real good!!!!👋👋👋👋🏆🏆🏆💯💯💯👌👌👌

[@larryadams2184]

Bought one of your bones bows from you it's awesome I'll send you some photos now I have a question for you could you make me a recurve same length same kind of technology I do all the hand work myself out of you would with clear glass with green fiberglass strip down the middle of the handle a two strips of fiberglass one on each side below the yew?? And I'm on the intermediate fasting sensible meals but most of the time I'm doing carnivore and believe me it worked I lost over 80 lb I'm back to running rucking old military stuff coming to the surface again

[@landencarpenter]

a literal fortune in just clamps. my god, man. surely there must be a cheaper way.

[@VSci_]

You collect them over time lol. I tend to buy a couple for every project so I can have alot of them

[@hollax3073]

can you help me ? i live in hungary. there is no shop where i can buy lumber the best wood is luc pine please help me i want to shoot bows

[@Daremo6969]

Can never have enough spring clamps :P

[@MichelCollignon_Weert]

Best of bow-ths worlds. 😄

[@j.l_vqtqv9908]

Buen trabajo el arco va de lujo 👌🍻

[@musikSkool]

Back a bow with individual strands of bowstring.

[@Naelith-dq6bj]

There are many different types of PVC

[@anthonielegrange8688]

factor wont work for me 🤣🤣🤣