Kreia Recounts the Mandalorian and Jedi Civil War

Kreia imparts her knowledge of the Mandalorian wars and what occurred following. The Exile has been disconnected from galactic occurrences since the Manadalorian Wars and is thus ignorant of the events of the Jedi Civil War.
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#StarWars #KOTOR2 #Expandeduniverse

[@ytsas45488]

"A culture's teachings - and most importantly the nature of its people - achieve definition in conflict. They find themselves... or find themselves lacking." Fantastic quote.

[@michalk.9174]

Very reminiscent of Thrawn.

[@ulysses5340]

@@JumboCod91 Your observations are right. And Kreia is literally Nietzsche. She wanted to destroy the Force out of the desire of Master Morality. That is the difference between George Lucas and Chris Avellone (lead designer/writer of KotOR 2). Lucas believed that Nietzsche was wrong and only way to live in this life is by living with restrictions and altruism. Chris Avellone on the other hand said that he hated Star Wars when he saw it. He hated the idea of not being in control. And this is why this game is philosophical article. Kreia: The Republic was never what was important ever. It was but a shell surrounds the Jedi just as the teachings of the Jedi are a shell surrounding the heart of man. Just as sapient beings(humans) created a system that limits everyone for the purpose of security(Jedi-Republic relationship), the rationality of human is the same restriction/precaution for to survive by not being driven by our emotions(Jedi Code-Human relationship) Kreia: The true war is waged in the hearts of all living things, against our own nature. This is the war between our rationality and emotions. Through rationality, bigger desires are born(hubris syndrome). Through wanting more, the fear of not being able to achieve that desires are also born(Anxiety). The point of all the Star Wars is that intelligence is curse. Just because humans can think and do plans in their lives and being in control of something that doesn't mean we can prevent ourselves from dying. *That was the whole character arc of Darth Vader*

[@JT-ho6rp]

Reminiscent of J.T. Frasers theory of time as conflict.

[@just_a_guy4788]

@@ulysses5340 Astonishing

[@EricGraham94]

@@ulysses5340 What made Avellone's writing of this game such a masterpiece is that it didn't just subvert the entire Star Wars foundation, but rather deconstructed it - as in truly explored all the details of Lucas' established universe - and in turn made it grander and richer.

[@juanlastra3502]

"The Republic was never what was important... ever, it was but a shell surrounding the Jedi just as the teachings of the Jedi are a shell surrounding the heart of men..."

[@louisiananlord17]

Master Kae's wisdom is truly impeccable and keen!

[@matthewwylie2735]

"You see, the war, the true war, has never been one waged by droids or warships or soldiers. They are but crude matter, obstacles against which we test ourselves. The true war is waged in the hearts of all living things, against our own natures, light or dark. That is what shapes and binds this galaxy, not these creations of man." I think Star Wars is at its best when it has themes and messages that carry over to the real world, and this quote encaptures exactly what war is, not just in the galaxy of Star Wars, but also in our own world. It's never about how many men, weapons, or machines either side has, it's about challenging the beliefs and ideologys of both sides and how far they'll go to assert and/or protect them.

[@sandrosaar4377]

Oh my good, this game is philosophical porn

[@TylerFoxtrot]

i love how in this game the characters reference the last game and you as a character can even do so, but none of these options spoil the story of the first game. Its really amazing writing.

[@PapitoQinn]

They sure don't make'em like they used to.

[@spartanq7781]

I was just thinking this the other day post my recent playthrough. That is masterful sequel storytelling.

[@natsudragneel95240]

Indeed. I played Kotor 2 first, and then Kotor 1. I enjoyed them a lot and I didn't feel anything was spoiled.

[@marnixmaximus3053]

In a way, the Mandolorian Wars, is what World War 2 is to Europe. In a sense, as well a European Civil War. The horrors of this war still echoe to these societies today, the way they act, think, reference. It's really suprising how much of a contrast it is.

[@PapitoQinn]

WW2 was created a very big echo for everyone on Earth. And it's still traveling to this day.

[@yaujj65]

@@PapitoQinn I would say WW1 is the true echo, a silent but effective one. It is what truly changes the world and help shape the warfare of memes. Infectious idea that spread to people around the globe. WW2 is like Kreia kill the Exile, intensifying the echo created in Malachor V

[@ltraltier6009]

@@yaujj65 Exactly. Im sick of all this WW2 shit just there to make us forget about other echoes like the forever wars in the deserts of the middle east that are still happening today instead of all this socially acceptable witchhunting over the equivalent of a long dead and defunct order of Revanites. Which is what Kreia sought to destroy via gathering the jedi masters so she could kill them all and destroy that destructive trend once and for all in Kotor 2. The middle east wars are like a neverending Malachor and a far more terrible war of belief that has been fought for thousands of years like Mandalore said on the bridge of Nihlus's ship.

[@mokukiridashi]

the musical cues in this video are great

[@PapitoQinn]

Thanks, man!

[@DmitryTheSovietDuck]

Makes me wish they were in the game.

[@Mr_Gray_1995]

Ok that’s it. I want a series on The Mandalorian Wars.

[@thedude3065]

Kevin Smetts is in the process of making one he and DarthYcey adapted both games into three film trilogy's both of which have an astonishing level of quality though the first episode has yet to have any information on a release date there is 2 trailers for the series here a link for it kzbin.info/www/bejne/gGm9qYCdbrh9pc0 kzbin.info/www/bejne/d6K5e5-jnZKlodU

[@Mr_Gray_1995]

awesome person you are a saint, I was not aware of this. Thank you

[@thedude3065]

@@Mr_Gray_1995 you're welcome hope you enjoy what's there they do both games justice adapting them into film format and I eagerly await Revan: Rogue Jedi

[@TerminatorGundam300]

Speaking of, in "The Mandalorian" I was surprised Din Djarin didn't know about the Jedi since he lived in the Clone Wars. At the very least he'd be told about the Mandalorian Wars, a tale that couldn't possible skim over the Jedi, especially Revan who was still a Jedi at the time

[@CornyBum]

@@TerminatorGundam300 As much as I enjoy _The Mandalorian,_ its treatment of characters' awareness of major galactic events and figures can be absurd...but it's not the only recent _Star Wars_ work to do this.

[@darthrevan7710]

"Revan escaped the Jedi, and turned to face Malak" an interesting perspective that he 'escaped' them. Kotor 2 also canonized the idea that Light Side Revan romanced bastila, perhaps this is the true nature of him. He is human who wears the masks of Jedi, sith, crusader, savior, conquered, etc.

[@nickthepick8043]

At the end of the day, the complexity of Revan intertwines with Kreia, and honestly this game brings out a level of Star Wars that makes me understand what living means. This game feels like something out of a dream, but tangible and beyond what most would consider to be Star Wars.

[@darthrevan7710]

Nicolas Charron - Legend of Remnant - It’s not “George Lucas” Star Wars to be sure, but it has shook the foundation of star wars to its core. Aside from the characters and themes that have since poured into the backdrop of modern fandom, this game teaches one about life. It is truly romantic in its own way. And for all the hype Revan gets, it’s merely because of Kreia. Yet to many, they see him as this “ideal” to strive towards, to want to be. I believe that’s the purpose he serves in the game itself, a model for the exile to compare themselves to.

[@nickthepick8043]

@@darthrevan7710 I neve thought of that Revan allegory before. Nice catch! And yes, this game pretty much taught me values that I hold true to this day.

[@LionofDawn]

Actually right now Kotor and Kotor 2 and even SWTOR is not canon anymore. But Revan has become canon recently. But what his past was, or what he might become, is not yet decided. But even back when it was canon, Revan was using the force in balance.

[@arlostein1000]

Mah man Papito has the horn for Kreia

[@PapitoQinn]

Sure.

[@dariuszjarominiak7325]

I merely don't like, that Kreia claims, that The Mandalorian Wars have been lasting for only one year... "almost decade ago" so it would be nine years, which is clear, considering, that the plot takes place in 3951 BBY, and the Battle of Malachor took place in 3960 BBY. Yet it wasn't the only battle which has taken place during Mandalorian Wars. Too bad that Kreia hasn't described any earlier battles.

[@wildrangeringreen]

a series of massacres that masked another, a war of conversion

[@donutkidpastry7895]

Dariusz Jarominiak I believe it was actually a writing error that was readded in the restoration mod

[@mortman200]

Kreia doesn't really consider the early conquests of the Mandalorians as being part of the war. The massacre of the Outer Rim was merely a provocation that led to the war as she considers it: the period when Revan and Malak joined the battle and the Republic truly started to fight back.

[@ABFan-bj2uj]

Let me introduce you to Master Jerlo! He had a double bladed orange lightsaber. He Was A Trandoshan. He Was The Only Apprentice Of Kreia who stayed in the Light Side. He followed Revan to the Mandalore wars, but he left when Revan went into unknown regions.

[@cc-bk3tx]

He from a book?

[@Tarik360]

I got a little bit of an amateur interest in history. This type of second hand recounting is great!

[@TheNord06]

i took my amateur interest in history to extreme, to academical research and boy it is tedious and hard to follow these bread crumbs irl.

[@Tarik360]

@@TheNord06 I can imagine! Cause it leaves little detail then there's also the nagging feeling of "is this shit even credible?" For a fictional story however. Less problematic.

[@TheNord06]

Tarik360 yup, kreia and her stories are my favourite!

[@theliato3809]

"It was a shell surrounding the Jedi." I'd say its more like a gigantic fortress with the order being one little part of it tucked safely away within. The republic was dealing with a lot of shit before and during the mando wars. Said mandos were also very careful at not being too flashy in which worlds they took until they had amassed a significant amount of power themselves. Even then they were massively out powered by the republic and had to be careful about how they went about their planning lest they lose massive portions of their fleet. People like her always tout the republic as a mess yet its been standing for millennium and the only times its come close to true defeat. (mandalorian wars, sith wars, dark age, the empire) it ultimately pulled itself back together. They underestimate what they do not truly understand

[@iceomistar4302]

Also don't forget all the crap Ulic Qel Droma and Exar Kun pulled.

[@stephenkenney8290]

Without the Jedi the Republic could not effectively deal with Force Sensitive threats such as the Sith.

[@trivipesnipe]

@@stephenkenney8290 Without the Jedi there wouldn't be any Sith

[@dgrunklesamiii4615]

@@trivipesnipe And without the force there would not be any Jedi.

[@parkerdixon-word6295]

You have to remember who's talking- for all her shit talk about relying on the Force, Kreia looks at non-force-sensetives as little more than pawns on a gameboard for the real players in the galaxy. Of course she sees the Republic as nothing but an extension of the Jedi- she sees the entire galaxy as nothing but a stage on which the Jedi and Sith enter conflict in a Neverending war of philosophy. Just like she hypes up Revan like the damned Messiah, Kreia isn't a reliable narrator on these things. Her perspective is limited.

[@worm_9912]

This is my AMSR

[@daedric1387]

When you fight long enough, you become your enemy.

[@Dresqus]

I just don't understand this "almost a decade ago". KotOR 2 takes place in 3951, so she says about 3960. But then Battle of Malachor V took place. Mandalorians War has started much sooner. I guess it's a simple writing mistake

[@louisiananlord17]

It is a writing error.

[@Blastanker]

I think it may be because the line was re-added from the Restoration mod

[@MrSilverio13]

Ironic to say it in a video so grim but happy new year

[@PapitoQinn]

Happy New Year to you too,my good man.

[@DraculaCronqvist]

It is stated in Kotor 2 that Revan and Malak never met a Sith Lord and that their fall to the Dark Side was either out of the horrors of war, or not a fall at all, but rather just them accepting their true nature, doing what is necessary to combat the True Sith. Then fucking SWTOR comes along and just craps all over that, with a laughably evil Sith Emperor who did meet and corrupted Revan. Such a disgrace.

[@wewerna6191]

Please consider what you say before you do so. If they intended to combat the true Sith, they must have known about them. There is no other logical explanation than that they have stumbled across them while searching for the Star forge. Thus they were turned as a direct result of confronting them there. Makes perfect sense.

[@lvsoad22]

Wewerna I agree with you, but the way they introduced it in swtor was really bad

[@DraculaCronqvist]

@@wewerna6191 No, you should consider your words carefully. You can very much learn about a threat before actually meeting it, which is stated to what have happened. Revan and Malak discovered the Trayus Academy and learned, by the records left behind, of the True Sith. They never actually met one of them. It's all plainly stated in-game. SWTOR retcons this. Do not act as if, just because it can be explained away, it's not a retcon. it is.

[@wewerna6191]

@@DraculaCronqvist Then please tell me how would you expect a thousand years old ruins to convince you that their former inhabitants are still active somewhere, without actually checking the fact's validity. It certainly wouldn't hold an explicit note that a portion of the population is hiding, because the point of hiding is not wanting to be found. Unless they wanted to be found, but that's what you're arguing against.

[@DraculaCronqvist]

@@wewerna6191 You're remembering things falsely. Revan and Malak found evidence of the True Sith still being there. This knowledge spurned them on to "do what they must", meaning to become Sith, to forcefully unify the Galaxy against this big threat of the True Sith returning. However, while they conquered the Republic, they forgot their original intention of preparing the Galaxy against the True Sith (The Dark Side is a drug that slowly makes you forget your original purpose of why you converted in the first place. Yuthura Ban is a great example of this). Only after Revan was later reprogrammed and defeated Malak did he slowly remember again what he had learned back then, and left everything behind to combat the True Sith directly, searching for them. This is why nobody could find him or even heard of him - he went into places nobody from the rest of the Galaxy had been for thousands of years. He didn't meet any Sith until post-Kotor I. The True Sith did not want to be found, but were biding their time, building their strength. That there were records and lore left behind that told of their continued existence was a mistake that they never dared to correct, for fear of re-discovery by the rest of the galaxy.

[@VulturePilot]

Kotor 2 understands and ‘deconstructs’ what Star Wars is a trillion times better and more completely than TLJ’s feeble attempt.

[@PapitoQinn]

They kept poking us, but ultimately failed to take it far enough. Problem is they're trying to make a movie, not a film. If KOTOR 2 is ever faithfully adapted into a movie, there would be too many people walking out of that movie theater going: "What just happened? Where am i? Who am i?"

[@di5450]

No movie would ever successfully adapt games as extensive as KOTOR I or II without sacrificing major events being portrayed, with at least some of the depth of the dialogues in this game kept more or less intact... Also considering the fact most of Hollywood's target audience is PG-13 (like all latest SW movies) which in turn wouldn't help with the movie's budget, which also means it wouldn't help with the box office numbers, thus we could get a midly 'deep' SW spinoff that essentially won't sell as much as Disney wants it to sell, thus it most likely won't be done, at least not while in the hands of Darth Disney.

[@user-wc7jf5ji8z]

Well, if you want to shed light on all of the events and give them the deserved screen time I'd assume they' have to make a few movies.

[@PapitoQinn]

Demen Semon I think online tv show would be best.

[@di5450]

Most likely this. A mini-series probably. This is way too much for the big screen.

[@darthtenebra5910]

0:03 Shouldn't she have said "Almost TWO decades ago..."? Or is she excluding the Outer Rim raids here? If I remember correctly, the final battle at Malachor V took place about a decade (9 years?) before the events of Kotor 2, but the first skirmishes/raids began over a decade before that. The Revanchists joined the war about 13-14 years before Kotor 2 happens -- guess that's still close enough to say "almost a decade".

[@PapitoQinn]

Could be that. Could be an overlooked mistake on the development side.

[@QoQabai658]

Revan is power.

[@Chadaface]

3:07 this actually helps in trying to make sense of TFA. The new republic vanished after one strike and had no chance at all in regrouping against the first order. If the jedi actually existed during then the jedi may have foreseen what was about to happen; no jedi = no republic

[@nickthepick8043]

I like this direction of thinking.

[@rorschach1985ify]

The New Republic being shit as it is in the new canon is just Disney writers being retards and making their leaders act stupid just so they could repeat the OT again with shitter story lines and characters.

[@chadkingoffuckmountain970]

@@rorschach1985ify rude

[@rorschach1985ify]

@@chadkingoffuckmountain970 Nothing rude about it, just stating the truth.

[@mphylo2296]

@@rorschach1985ify Nah you're just a smoothbrain. Sorry.

[@SkywalkerFoe]

Revan and Malak didn't go dark because of the Mandalorians alone, but because they found the Star Forge.

[@larsfinlay7325]

Kreia saying refugees. in a game from 2004. damn these writers had some serious foresight an wisdom.

[@PapitoQinn]

What do you mean? Refugees weren't anything new in 2004.

[@larsfinlay7325]

@@PapitoQinn that's true but the word refugee got politicized hella in like 2017-2018 during the Syrian Civil War. just googled it 6.7 million Syrians were forced to leave Syria. Most of them are in Turkey. 6.7 million people who may never get to go home.

[@OGSpaceMarine]

Nope it was the Sith Emperor who corrupted Revan and Malak that lead to the civil war but republic wins! And revan went to find the Emperor and his fate unknown...till swtor.

[@Neverhoodian]

I've never liked that retcon; it's too simplistic and undercuts KOTOR II's cautionary messages of war and its effects on those involved, both seen and unseen. Now it all boils down to "teh BIG BAD EMPOROR did it!!!111one!" Bleh.

[@StoicSurvivor99]

That undermines the character of Revan.

[@SonofSethoitae]

Frankly, Fuck SWTOR

[@iratepirate3896]

TOR is non-canon shit.

[@wewerna6191]

It is not a retcon, I mean... If Revan was supposed to prepare the galaxy against the true Sith, then he must have known about them, thus he has gone dark side because of them...

[@julianG1212]

Lol the Jedi suck in the kotor games

[@BlackDiamond2718]

They always have. There were good jedi who cared for the true purpose of their religion. And then there were those who use rules to hide from the truth of the universe that they lived in.