Quick Hydro Update

[@newdogatplay]

Why not make a brush that works like a paddle wheel on a boat that sweeps the top of the screen as the extra water passes over the head of your infeed box,,use the brushes off of a ice scraper for cars place it right on the infeed box on an axle that has 3 or for of the brushes mounted to an , axle ,,hope I explained it good enough for u to get my idea,it would sweep all the leaves off top of the screen and likely most of the algie,I'm saying infeed,box I'm not sure wat you call it but it's the main box u concrete in at the upper end of the creek to feed your main water line, u keep brushing leaves off it ,

[@KrisHarbour]

because of the massive flows i get when it chucks it down, anything like that would be ripped to bits broken and dragged down stream at least 5 times a year. Any self cleaning contraption would have to come in from the side and retract.

[@goldmagnet9013]

Great video, keep the hydro tuning series going. Why not start with the intake box, one video filming its construction, then if winter gives us a dry spell, whack it in and video 2. I know a tiny fraction about hydro compared to you but I have moved a lot of water in big pipes mining and have troubleshot issues. I wonder if the density of the water in the top part of the pipe closer to the intake will be a good bit lower, with the air bubbles, that would be what my experience would lead me to believe, and a higher capacity intake might give you a bit more PSI just on the density increase. Love hydro videos, great to see another one so soon..

[@libertyauto]

I never even thought about water density in the situation you described. Thanks for your post @goldmagnet

[@goldmagnet9013]

@@libertyauto Hi, yes I believe its something not often considered, but something I have seen make a noticeable difference in water systems. When bubbles get into water the effect is massive, density drops significantly. Also the effect of this is higher at faster water speeds, like tuning a hydro for max power, as the higher speeds mean more bubbles travel further down the pipe, effectively reducing the head of the system. Kris will find out hopefully, hes very methodical like that, fingers crossed it will help push past 500w. A clue might be if the calculated PSI, including all known losses, is 2 or 3 PSI different to the observed PSI when running, the difference being the water density change in the pipe. I can see myself getting addicted to this "tuning" series, and I think Kris like making these videos more than plastering, its win win !!

[@libertyauto]

Yeah, I am really digging the automation and tuning videos.

[@MrPaulviles]

😆 I actually just said this on another comment although worded differently! If he used a small dam wall (I mean like a dam that is only 600mm deep) with a pipe flange half way down. It would be fully submerged and start a siphon. Siphons carry far more water at a faster and higher pressure since there are no air voids. We use this principle in salt water aquarium drains not for the benefit of increased water movement but because a siphon is silent, a overflowing drain makes noise due to air intake. (No one likes noisey aquariums) However as a side benefit we can use a smaller pipe to move more water if the pipe is under a siphon.

[@KrisHarbour]

I think this is a very interesting suggestion and im going to think about it quite a bit. I can look down the stand pipe and see air coming out. so it would stand to reason that there must be air in the top two meters of head. it wont amount to much energy as its only a small amount of air and only over two meters of head but im quite sure you are correct that a bigger intake would help.

[@MrPaulviles]

Kris, how much water is running down the 2nd source stream after the rain? Can we get a quick glimpse? Great to hear your thoughts on manifold, not to often do I see comments acted on, on channels I watch. Thanks mate, keep up the great work!

[@snaggletooth7031]

Good to see ur going strong freind,i remember ur first few vids,,life sure is full of surprises

[@telinoz1975]

With the 2nd stream coming online later, will the current setup handle the extra power or will you need a new turbine setup? One of your recent videos showed the 2nd stream has much flow, so when you merge the 2 it is going to be what, 6 or 7 l/s? What is the max flow rate your current setup can handle?

[@t00ls742]

read my reply above

[@solarfunction1847]

With the mesh intake box at the creek if you made that 3 times longer but tapering from the same width input start point that you have to a narrower end output overflow of say half the width then the area would be almost twice the area where water can travel into your pipe. The wide to narrow section forces the overflow to push leaves & debris off the top if you have like a sloping ramp so gravity & speed of what little overflow there is can wash off the debris. You could also put guards on each side that would make the gap minimum, medium or maximum for different creek flow periods of weather to optimize the flow rate. Also if you can make the taper at the 4 nozzle connections, make that taper a long taper so that it gradually narrows over say 4 inches or more, this will cut down on losses I feel as it would be better than a sharp 3 inch - 1/2 inch narrowing over 1/2 inch length taper that you might have right now. All these things I've picked up from many different people who have done similar things but they may have only done 1 thing instead of 2 or 3.

[@reidarbrenden5704]

What about makeing a ring manifold. Then you could run a large diameter pipe direct into to the manifold. You could monitorer the pressure and make a controller to adjust how many and how much the nozels. 🙂

[@otm646]

The next step up would be jumping to a wicket gate. It's a set of movable vanes which guy in the incoming water from a circular manifold into the turbine. Looks like the vanes on a variable nozzle turbo charger.

[@janmeyer8640]

Cool video, interesting to see you're ideas for the turbine. I absolutely love the Hydro videos 👍🏻

[@RubenKelevra]

I made some longer suggestions on your last video, hope some were helpful. Really looking forward how you going to tackle this, maybe show us some planning? 🤔

[@tristanredgrave4286]

I'm sure you could make an automatic leaf clearer that is powered by the water flow.

[@gregormiller4037]

Hey Mr Kris, hope you and family have a great holiday, and Merry Christmas.

[@t00ls742]

as I have said before....there are not any losses your total loss is at the jets...the rest runs off head pressure...not velocity of the water through the pipe you can have the straightest pipe ever and still not gain anything because you limit everything by jet size and head pressure, or where the top of the water is you can have 2 pipes standing straight up....4 inch and 1/2 inch.....both will have the same static pressure at the bottom put a 1/2 inch reducer on the 4 inch pipe and the when you open both pipes, the dynamic pressure will be the same....the flow will also be the same, if both pipes are kept full the only time flow is affected is when pipes are closed looped meaning no outside air pressure influence you can have a 12 inch penstock and the dynamic pressure is still going to be the same .velocity out the end is still going to be the same..head pressure will still be the same...it doesnt change with volume, dynamic pressure changes with jet size as does the velocity of the water coming out, head pressure changes with height of intake shape of the jets also affects velocity out the end

[@mike86mike]

Why don't you have a little dam of some sorts for the intake? Honest question, not trying to critique your work.

[@alexandrakoecher6835]

Hu Chris, I would Really like to know, about what is your Opinion regarding the Size of your intake, shouldn' t it be bigger in order to Catch more Water, or do u believe, that this has no impact regarding your Power? Best regards

[@KrisHarbour]

I'm going to build a bigger one at some point 👍

[@t00ls742]

@3:40 there are not any losses in your system except at the jet.....that is where the head pressure from the top pushes the water out at the dynamic pressure velocity

[@t00ls742]

@1:37 if the the intake pipe is full then there is nothing you can do there that will make it more "efficient" as that is all the head pressure you will get

[@richysee]

I think a Coanda screen would help a lot.

[@frederickhillegas2115]

You my friend are one hell of an engineer!

[@MrPizzaman09]

It would be good to do an experiment with intentionally adding air to the top of the intake to see how much of an impact that has. Air bubbles can really disturb the flow and reduces the mass flow hitting the Pelton wheel. As a mechanical engineer, I have lots of respect for all of the work you have done on this to make it an efficient system. How much head do you have?

[@murky4935]

Clearly you understand the reason for the slew on your intake but I am confused when u allow your water to babble again. From what I fathom from hydrodynamics ,turbulence is a huge loss and air is the enemy. Would it not be best to reach almost laminar flow on your pipe higher up on the intake, removing air as it falls into a controlled system, then taper the flow before it reaches the turbine. This alteration could increase your output. Just an idea fella. Good job so far. :)

[@horstszibulski19]

Just like a dam and a small pond where the intake gets the water from? Sound like a good idea... :-D

[@thecorbies]

Hi Kris. I've been intrigued by your hydro system for some time, but I'm not sure I understand YOUR set up correctly. Is there any chance you could do a schematic of it sometime please? I'm an electro-mechanical engineer, and I think I may have some suggestions that may be helpful. Regards Mark in the UK

[@matthewgordon-clark2392]

Kris, fascinating to hear you talk about the system and what you have learnt. I definitely reckon you should work on selling micro systems. On an unrelated topic - what is Dot studying? Matthew (South Australia)

[@MW_Builds]

Yep, from the fire service days... 15psi or so loss ...per fitting. Ouch

[@kenleach2516]

Get to watch how much you share. It is such a lovely win for us watching. I dream of hydro...I can't wait for Solid state batteries!

[@threepotMR2]

I recon the intake has to be the first target for cost effective gains. One of those Coanda effect screens, with just the right curve leading to it. Keeping that pipe full to the brim with water, with as little air from capitation as possible. That would make the most of your head, and its all about pressure. Looking at the inlet you might be able to pinch a few more inches of head too, maybe make a retaining wall and damn a bit more back.

[@gavinablett4807]

maybe you could look in to using a "V" notch to measure flow. if you built one into the new intake measuring the run off, the control of the valves could be automated.

[@vkeshelya]

Are you planing to make this turbines in to production? So we can buy it as kit? Definitely would be interested in that 👍🏻

[@simonlovell4391]

Would adding a second intake increase intake flow also giving you a larger surface area for the intake allowing for debris, because you have enough water to fill another pipe but just tap it in on the up stream side keeping the one pipe Love the vids wish I had a stream running through my garden I've just got concrete

[@MistahHeffo]

Hi Kris, just my thought on the manifold. Instead of the box and it's losses, you could have a stainless steel pipe in a ring shape the same size as the feed pipe with the inlet joining tangentially mounted around the generator and nozzles. From there you could tap off your four feeds to the nozzles tangentially at the pipe size you need for best performance.

[@CR-di1lg]

All you hydro videos are great and spins off good comments and replies. I think micro hydro is some of the most interesting stuff I have found on KZbin in a long time. Unfortunately it will not be easy to find suitable land in Denmark. Here it would be better to focus other sources of energy.

[@lancedaniels]

Thanks for posting and sharing. Very encouraging to see your work.

[@jessjulian9458]

I think you have done a great job on what you have now. Thanks for sharing your talents.

[@dugdru2]

Your math skills are Strong! Good update!

[@njipods]

could you 3d print or lathe some tapers for the reducing fittings as well?

[@H2Dwoat]

Hi, fascinating as usual, cheers mate 👍👍👍.

[@eyezonmy6]

Totally looks like a completed project

[@wageslaveuranus9596]

Thanx for the up-load,thumbs up.Praying that you'll get a nice haircut,manbuns are kinda gae!

[@andymccabe6712]

I say that prioritising something as unimportant as the way someone has their hair is not a very efficient use of braincells......!

[@rcs368]

Kris (and other hydro enthusiast) just found another hydro project you might be interested in, if you don't already know about it. Moulin En Pierre is the channel name.

[@KrisHarbour]

yeah i know of it already, in fact he contacted me about a turbine.

[@bendaltzy2984]

Hey, Idea: How about installing a large capacity water tank up the hill and using excess energy to fill it with water as a "battery". So if the river ever runs low and you need some more capacity, you can slowly drain the water from the tank into the hydro system.

[@KrisHarbour]

It would need to be half a million liters a(110.000 gallons) to run the turbine for a day. 10kwh is half a million liters. That's a 500 cubic meter tank. Or 17657 cubic feet. Even to run the turbine for one hour it would need to be 18000 litres

[@Brian_Boxtruck]

Do you plan to automate the valves to open close based on stream flow? That way if you get a lot of rain overnight the hydro ramps up to capture that energy without you having to get out of bed :P Perhaps a weir upstream or downstream to let you measure the flow of the stream?

[@RubenKelevra]

You could just measure the pressure digitally and if it drops you take too much out of the penstock, so you would shut a valve. When you size your nozzles with different sizes you can avoid that a high frequency of changes are necessary.

[@KrisHarbour]

Maybe one day i might, And i would do it the way Ruben suggested by measuring pressure but at the moment i like messing with it and doing it myself. its a hobby of mine and it also keeps me in tune with the weather, seasons and my land.

[@stevesshed555]

Hi Kris, awesome work , may I ask what is your pipe run and head ? Cheers Steve

[@KrisHarbour]

210M of pipe 18.5m of head 5lps flow. There is a entire series that you can watch with every bit of information in it.

[@ariesmarz18]

i suggest you make an artificial pond for collecting water and see how it goes

[@KrisHarbour]

I have one just not using it as its not needed

[@Picklemedia]

World's tallest dwarf

[@chrisfryer3118]

You are going to require improved storage at some stage, to maximize energy collection if you want a consistent 10kw year round, day and night

[@KrisHarbour]

I have a 25kwh forklift battery so i can easily use 10kwh a day especially as there is power feeding in 24h a day. I will upgrade to lithium one day when the cost comes down.

[@chrisfryer3118]

@@KrisHarbour I've been using 960 Ah 24v lead acid arrangement for four years and its pretty bad, I want a LIFePo4 set next, just got to find the money. I learnt loads in those 4 years, mainly don't over discharge lead acids, or buy anymore

[@1richiescott]

Chris justva question how did you deal with the isolation of living out on your own at begining? Did you have much money to start of and how do you survive for income ? The reason i ask is that i want to do this like what you've done.

[@KrisHarbour]

At first it was a big shock but now i love it. when i started i had no money at all as i spent it all on the land. since then i have managed to do everything slowly with the money from yourtube and patreon. I get things done very cheaply as i use alot of natural or reclaimed stuff and do all the work myself.

[@1richiescott]

@@KrisHarbour thanks chris for the info

[@airlinephoto]

Cool

[@ohske]

👍👍👍👌👍☺️

[@AdrianPenny]

Daammnn!

[@tomaswest6541]

What's really interesting is the obvious growth in your knowledge and confidence which is a direct result of experience.

[@hanzup4117]

Just recently discovered your channel. I'm so jealous, man! How did you acquire your land?

[@hanzup4117]

@@lor.ei.5454 Yeah :L I was kinda hoping for more information lol. Like, where (private seller?) and how much.

[@epikmero]

@@hanzup4117 I'm sure he said he purchase the land on EBAY in a previous video.. not 100% tho

[@hanzup4117]

@@epikmero Cheers, man. I'll try and find it :)

[@KrisHarbour]

I sold my house in london and purchased the land with the money. I searched for over a year to find this place, I drove the whole of wales and slept in my car for weeks on end visiting every bit of land up for sale That i could find. Eventually i found this place. it was bigger than i needed and i spent every penny i had at the time on it and has very little money left to develop the land. So i stayed in a tent and built the roundhouse over the course of a year while working self employed back in London.

[@KrisHarbour]

I did find the land on Ebay :)

[@mcflapper7591]

Thank you! I'd increase the box size and reduce the pipe length between box and nozzles.

[@Totial]

The problem is not so much the length but the joins from box to pipe and pipe to nozzle

[@KrisHarbour]

Thars right, the pipe itself has very tiny loss as it is oversized for the flow. But the fittings have quite a bit of loss and because i have 4 nozzles thats lots of fittings so that brings the losses up. But its worth it to have the full range of flow. Im just going to work at increasing the efficiency of them a little bit. The turbine efficiency is currently 65% so its working really well.

[@mcflapper7591]

@@KrisHarbour Sure. Though, personally, I'd try to minimise adverse effects throughout the system, including pipe lengths (and bends and joints, of course). You already did well in oversizing the pipes, I'd yet go further in that respect.

[@KrisHarbour]

@@mcflapper7591 I cant get those hoses any shorter if i was to make them shorter i would have to force sharp bends in to them. its ver stiff hose and it would kink at the sharp bends. its much better to have them longer with less sharp bends.

[@mcflapper7591]

@@KrisHarbour Yes, I see. You arranged it rather in a 2D pattern. I'd try to go upwards between box and nozzle that way it should be feasible to reach every nozzle with very short hose parts.

[@RubenKelevra]

Do you really need the fan on the generator at this low output? 🤔

[@KrisHarbour]

yeah i think so, I have been messing with it. I taped it up so it could not move any air and it uses about 15-20w But i think that is 15-20w well spent. it keeps things cool and stops condensation from building up.

[@RubenKelevra]

@@KrisHarbour ah okay, haven't realized that. (taping) 20 W isn't really worth changing anything. :)

[@Fatpumpumlovah2]

Lol same i saying, this entire thing needs redoing its a complete mess

[@kurtz260]

@@Fatpumpumlovah2 i went to your channel to see your videos showing us how much improved a proper system done by you increases efficiency..... I looked, but couldn't seem to find those videos. Post a link for us please.

[@andymccabe6712]

@@kurtz260 err, it's just possible this individual might be a teensy weensy troll!!??(and not a very literate one at that....!)

[@shaynegadsden]

it may seem like a stupid question but all the pipe reduction were setup for when the first turbine was in so there was no inlet box but now that you are using the manifold why not just weld a 90mm fit on the manifold then have 90mm pipe going directly in, because of the new design you could install the manifold with a length of 90mm already attached to reach the end of the existing line then couple it with a single 90mm ball valve giving max flow to the manifold without any restrictions especially with a second pick up

[@KrisHarbour]

Thats what i said i will do at some point. go straight in to the manifold with the 90mm

[@shaynegadsden]

@@KrisHarbour ok guess I missed it thanks for the reply though

[@t00ls742]

wont make a difference

[@andymccabe6712]

@@t00ls742 do you you know some big secret that nobody else knows about hydro?! Or, are you just completely wrong.......??!!