Textile History Q&A

[@dorteweber3682]

DO go off the rails, Kristine. We all enjoy it when you do.

[@KristineVike]

You are an enabling lot, and I am here for it. ❤️❤️

[@archeanna1425]

Re: fibres from trees - the people who were living on the Pacific Coast of Canada for thousands of years before the arrival of Europeans wove beautiful fabrics from cedar bark. I have done very little weaving with it but I was surprised and pleased with how easy it was to work with. It's easy to imagine children sitting with the adults around a fire in a huge longhouse learning how to work with cedar. I especially liked the large hats they made from cedar to protect the wearer from the rain that can be abundant at the time of the year when the salmon would be coming in from the ocean to go up river to spawn. Thanks for this episode. It's delightful.

[@KristineVike]

That is so cool, I really, really love that! Cedar seems to be the big recurring factor across large parts of North America so far.

[@erikmyb7]

I was so surprised to see that graph ignored turtle island cedar weaving!! ty for pointing it out!

[@PiskeyFaeri]

Nettle fibers! I got this! Sally Pointer is a fantastic youtuber who spends time discussing and recreating neolithic thread. She's done fantastic experiments with recreated tools and processes.

[@KristineVike]

Huzzah for nettle fibres! Love experimental archaeology and historical experiments.

[@Tvianne]

41 to 52 THOUSANDS years? holy moly, that's… fantastic. And the level of knowledge required to make is completely at odds with the general image of prehistoric humans. I'm elated! 🤩 Aaand, ok, it seems this spring I'm going to eye nettle for more than a risotto…

[@KristineVike]

I knooooow! It’s SO cool!!

[@Tvianne]

@@KristineVike when confronted with hard evidence like this, I can actually see the thread of time unspooling… I know, my brain is weird, but that's soo cool, I can't even. (regarding sportswear, as an ex- very ex - karateka, yep, the gi is fatastic for absorbing sweat, the only syntetic part is the elastic waistband of the trousers, and it doesn't stink even if you don't wash it after every use, but just once or twice per month… the protection, tho, 🤢 but I'll be honest, a sportsbra is a necessity. Maybe it could be switched with a regency pair of stays, but… I'm not sure, and one'd have to be good at sewing, which I'm not! 😅)

[@lynn858]

I agree that it's at odds with the perception... but also... I think we're giving too much credit to the idea of twisting fibres being a technological marvel. (I'm not saying this as a criticism... I wrote this while thinking it through myself.) It's really not. It's the kind of thing that evolves independently in multiple places. It takes a super simple concept - more of thing is stronger. Rip up one piece of grass vs many. Break one twig, vs many... and trying that with a fiber. Twisting it together could have been intentional, or a product of fidgeting. Fidget for a bit, with twisting strands it's simple enough to think: Can I twist the twisted ones together? It will actually fold back on itself if you just keep twisting. Although that won't get you all the way there, it's a natural property there to be noticed. Well, that unwinds itself even if I tie the ends. And maybe you try something different hoping it will stay. Lets do it backwards and see what happens... If we think of it as "lets figure out the best method for plying fibres to make textiles" it's a huge task. If you sit down, and play with the thing, the way a child does, with the intent of making something "neato". Or just fidget with a thing while waiting for an animal to come within range, or fidget while singing or telling stories with your people... then share the outcome with someone else... and people keep playing around with things... you come up with all kinds of incredible things. So yes, it's incredible that what works well is actually so simple, and defined by the properties of matter... yet we either give "modern humans" way too much credit for stumbling onto this, or imagine that neanderthals must not have... fidgeted with things and had a memory. And not been capable of copying what others showed them.

[@Tvianne]

@@lynn858 ok, it's 3am and I'm not going to read that wall, but I was NOT referring to "oooohhhh, twisted fibers!!111ONE!!!". I'm impressed by what they were using as fiber, as in, BARK. It's not the first thing that comes to mind when one thinks 'textile fiber': you have to have an idea of what you are looking for, to try and find a suitable tree, and also find a technique that gives the result you need. And you have to do that way before you start 'playing' with it.

[@dorteweber3682]

I try to keep my clothes longer. I like white T-shirts, but I am a pig, so eventually they get stained. Then they get thrown into the indigo pot. By now I have quite a few blue T-shirts, somewhat unevenly (artistically) dyed.

[@KristineVike]

Love that! And yeah. I’ve gotten better at wearing an apron when I cook because I am clumsy. 😅

[@leaf2576]

I trained for a marathon in natural fibers. It's very possible! Not fancy branded clothes--mostly cotton T-shirts and cotton/linen blend shorts I don't wear anymore as dailywear, cotton sweatpants, and wool outer layers for the coldest days.

[@KristineVike]

That’s incredible! I prefer plant fibres for exercising too because they are so comfortable. ❤️

[@sunriseeyes0]

Same! I’m not sure what it is about polyester-based fibers, but if I wear them while sweating, I get severe rashes. But I don’t have that problem with most natural fibers. I have not yet tested exercising in wool yet, though I hear it’s popular for hiking?

[@jackieknits61]

Traditionally, cycling clothes were all wool, with the exception of the chamois padding at the crotch. That's what I started cycling in. It was comfortable and not too hard to clean. As a child, I sailed with my family on the Great Lakes. My favorite sweater was an Aran wool that I used until I grew out of it and passed it to my younger sisters. I usually wore a cotton t shirt underneath and it it was quite comfortable, wet or dry and over an amazing range of temperatures.

[@coreygilles847]

In Washington State there is a Native American tribe that makes clothing from cedar tree bark

[@dorteweber3682]

Came to add that observation that cedar bark cloth is also still produced for ceremonial purposes in British Columbia.

[@KristineVike]

That’s amazing!

[@stevezytveld6585]

Just coming in to add that if you get to the eastern part of the country drop into the National History Museum in Ottawa/Gatineau. They have some amazing examples of historic cedar woven garments. Just beautiful work.@@dorteweber3682 - Cathy (&, accidently, Steve), Ottawa/Bytown/Pimisi

[@krasavitsarose]

I also am of the size that fits a lot of secondhand clothes from friends around me. I also am known for my patchwork on my clothing. I try and make the patches a little fun and deliberate so they aren't overly obvious it is a patch of necessity. Clothing quality is getting so difficult to work with though. Some items just aren't able to be repaired because it is just falling apart. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and interests! I have taken to nalbinding after I saw you working some mittens in it. I just love how easy and quickly it works. I also take it everywhere I go because it is so easy.

[@KristineVike]

Clothing quality really is falling apart as we speak. Fabric quality too, which makes me so sad. I hear you on patching. I have two pairs of comfy pants that I especially patch into oblivion. It will not be long before the are more patches than pants. 😅

[@Su-ri5ob]

Very interesting video, thank you. I cannot get out of my head that no matter how much we repair our clothes and keep them forever it makes not the slightest difference as fast fashion is still being mass produced and thrown away, in huge quantities. I hope that makes sense. Btw, I absolutely adore your mug, it's beautiful.

[@KristineVike]

I hear you. It is painful to keep trying when the world around us seems to not care at all. But when the despair hits me, I try to retreat and remind myself that I can only control myself and my own actions. After a while I feel well enough to tackle the world again. ❤️ (Also yes, the mug is great! Handmade by some lovely Danes and bought at a Viking market. This one is huge though. I have a medium one too that I find more reasonable. But this one felt right for the amount of tea in the video. 😂)

[@linr8260]

Also cotton hakama and jacket definitely get damp in my experience but that's nothing hanging them to dry doesn't fix. Love working out in cotton, linen and viscose tho (that one was a gift, might as well use it lol)

[@KristineVike]

I am all for the “I have it, might as well use it” mentality!

[@linr8260]

That wasn't a copout answer, that was the best answer imo. Also I am so here for deep dives into unpopular fibers. I've been worldbuilding for a fantasy story and trying to research what plant fibers are/were locally available in cultures and climates similar to those I'm writing about has been an exercise in frustration, but every scrap of info is fascinating.

[@KristineVike]

Research hyperfocus brain is a curse I know all too much about. So much fun, but also so time-consuming! 😅

[@karlahovde]

I could listen to you chat about things like this all day!

[@wvblue4658]

I have collected fallen deadwood from a forest floor to use for a campfire, and I think it's easy to see how the idea of using bark fibers came about. The bark is often already retted and falling away from the wood and if you try to break the wood into smaller pieces the strands of inner bark fiber will hold it together. Trying to twist the wood to break it free only strengthens those fibers making the job more difficult if the bark hasn't rotted enough to weaken them. Deliberately twisting them to make a useful cord is a step up, as is figuring out how to tie a knot to make that cord useful.

[@KristineVike]

Ooooh, I love this observation!

[@MijnWolden]

Don't get me started on the marketing schemes employed in Europe to convince us we want australian Merino. 😠 I'm so mad about it. But yes, this textile deep dive is also my definition of fun 😁

[@KristineVike]

Yeah. It doesn’t seem like the best way to allocate resources globally, and that makes me sad.

[@MijnWolden]

​@@KristineVikeand for Flanders it's also a great insult to our own historical textile traditions. Our cities were able to grow and prosper in the Middle ages because of our wool industry. Flanders woolen cloth was considered a great luxury. And then they started importing wool... And today there is no wool industry whatsoever, most of our sheep breeds are in a conservation program because they have no monetary value because of the harmful idea that our wools are ''inherently inferior to merino''. And this gets me in a fit 😅

[@catherinejustcatherine1778]

I, too, am saddened to hear that bamboo can't be spun as it's own natural fiber. I usually wear linen to "work out" because it "wicks away" the sweat so easily. Cotton is much softer, tho, and, if you're lifting weights, or in some sort of movement as exercise situation (such as dance or streatching), snug cotton has more "give" to it than linen. If people look at me oddly, I usually look back at them and smile brightly.

[@armedvsokord]

If you wear it long enough, and get good quality linen, it should get to a very nice level of softness. I've made a number of garments for me and my husband in linen and they quickly became favorites because they get so soft they rival my T-shirts. But you need to start with the right quality, linen canvas will never be soft enough to wear no matter how much it's worn or washed. 😂 The trade off today is they tend to be lighter weight and so they wear out quickly and need mending with regular wear. This may be that the textiles we can get just aren't woven in a fine but dense way to make it last. 😢

[@Tvianne]

you sure won't be as smelly as syntetic fibers wearer! 🎉

[@KristineVike]

Excellent attitude! And yes. Love linen to bits, it is so soft too! 🥰

[@catherinejustcatherine1778]

@@Tvianne 😀👍

[@catherinejustcatherine1778]

@@armedvsokord thank you. This makes so much sense! 😀

[@CasualKnitter]

I love your videos! The mix of amazing facts about the textiles and solutions/ideas is exactly what I need while I re-knit my favorite shawl ( I realized it's too small and make it bigger instead knitting another one 😅)

[@KristineVike]

I love that! And yeah, I know how it feels. But good on you for redoing the thing that was bothering you! ❤️

[@TorchwoodPandP]

Thank you for this fantastic video! The wood bark fabric was fascinating news to me! My own two cents worth: you don’t need wash your clothes every time you have worn them: hang up wollen and linnen garments after wear where they can air out, then do the sniff test, and see if they aren’t actually wearble for another day.

[@KristineVike]

Very true! I legitimately forget this is a thing, as I have never washed my clothes after just one wash. It wears clothes out much faster too!

[@Tvianne]

yep! after all, we wash ourselves pretty much every day, there's no need to change (outer) clothes every day if they're not dirty or smelly. Being a semi-hermit, I seem wear the same clothes for weeks… for about six hours in total, 'cause I wear them only to go out of the house 😅

[@claire58412]

I'm looking forward to more of these. Thank you.

[@KristineVike]

So happy you enjoyed it!

[@DFarbklecks]

Last weekend I was at an old wool Weaving factory that was turned into a Museum. They have preserved it to look pretty much exactly like it did in 1961 when they stopped producing (Using century technology from around 1909), The only difference the museum made is that they use electricity for power instead of the steam engine. A lot of the machines still work and if you go on a tour they will show you the making in progress. So cool. I only wish they sold the fabric they produce. I would have loved to make something out of it. They use local wool and everything. It probably would have been pretty expensive since they produce in such small quantities and all but at least I would have known exactly where it came from. They did sell hats and coin purses from their fabric in the shop but it wasn't really my vibe.

[@dianacurtis5872]

That was a most satisfying Q&A, thank you for answering my question. This was a delightfully informative video!

[@KristineVike]

I am so glad you enjoyed it! I had a ton of fun working on it!!

[@winrycarver7701]

I loved this! I'm always really excited to hear about the history of things, and the history of textiles is something that I don't know all that much about. Understanding the science of how various materials are eventually spun into thread is very interesting, and I love listening to hyper fixations and special interests, especially when it comes to science or history. Please do more of these!

[@DAYBROK3]

spruce roots are still used for basketry in the pacific northwest/west coast indigenous peoples, as is cedar bark. ceder bark was used there. wouldnt take much for someone uing them to look at other tree bark, i look at old cottonwood trees and wonder how upset the kids would be with me.

[@KristineVike]

I have two spruce-root baskets too! They are amazingly sturdy. ❤️

[@LeafyK]

I enjoyed listening to your musings while I was crafting (... hehe today it was minecrafting, shh). I appreciate the bibliography in description. Cheers

[@lucypark3836]

It is really interesting that you can make fiber out of pine tree - my dad was born right after war and he told me inner layer of pine tree is edible (last resort of thing ) - so I now know two things out of pine tree bark! It reminded me transitional Korean paper , Hanji, occasionally recycled as clothes. It made out year old paper mulberry tree, or Broussonetia kazinoki - or related tree (I am not sure about it's scientific name. According to national forest department, there were few cross pollination happened so some of native plant get own unique scientific name but it is not fully established yet). It is wood fiber but strong enough to be used as clothes - and even raincoat (유삼 Yoo-sahm). Not many paper clothes items were survived but it was only one I know of tree bark fiber used as clothes before watching this. Thank you for making such a wonderful, informative video!

[@KristineVike]

That is amazing. I had no idea! ❤️

[@festivalkyrie]

We always forget that high demand will not resolve the overpricing, which has been turned ridiculous. I'm living in Eastern Europe, but can't afford Lithuanian linen, not because the difficulties of shipping (Ukranian war), but because Italy and France is enforcing natural fabrics to be high fashion again- which makes wardrobe building extreme frustrating. Especially when no one is shipping linen in your country, however, in the US you can choose by shade,color, gram weight- from Eastern European linen. Maybe we should hunt linen flying over the border like wild ducks 🙃🙃

[@KristineVike]

Oh no. That makes sense and is so frustrating. BAH.

[@projectpenwing]

I love these videos! Always learn new stuff :D Made me chuckle with the tea!

[@KristineVike]

Gotta have tea when we spill the tea! 🫖

[@shaylatwitchell2567]

Arizona is known for growing a decent chunk of cotton and growing good quality cotton at that, so I think I want to try learning to spin some 🤔 also apparently indigenous people in the area have worked with things like yucca and agave fibers too, and historically cultivated cotton too. I want to look into it more and see what sort of other plant fibers I could work with that are local to the area or experimenting with trying my hand at processing my own someday. I am always curious about how much potential for all sorts of different species that could have unique qualities we just haven't discovered yet... Ahhh so many possibilities! It tingles my brain every time!

[@KristineVike]

YESSS! I love this so much! Researching the local resources and traditions local to you is awesome! 🔥

[@beryoza3634]

Not correction just info additon as your description was correct for the trees (fern trees) not decomposing in the Carboniferous period around 400 million years ago. There's also definitely very active research on remediation bacteria, fungi and algae. Great video! I definitely go with the general strategy of wearing the heck out of the clothes I already own. Great for finances too as I need to buy less.

[@dorteweber3682]

I have two sons who teach kung fu. They wear the heavy cotton pants and jackets that are typical of that sport. They do tear/wear out in the crotch with the positions and kicks they do all the time. Stretch fabrics would probably work just as well, but the cotton is traditional and it works fine. The pants just don't last forever.

[@KristineVike]

Yeah, tears make a lot of sense for the sport. I’ve seen senseis with severely torn and battered collars too from all the pulling and throwing. So not magic but nothing wrong with it!

[@Tvianne]

the heavy cotton funtion is actually to sustain manhandling, tuggings and the like, at least in karate and judo. I admit I'm not a kung fu expert, but if you have to grab someone for a toss, you want a fabric that's not going to shred in 3 seconds.

[@cosplaygoose3246]

This has given me some thoughts about my fabric buying habits and the sustainability of my current projects with the materials that i wish to procure for them.

[@elinordrake9716]

Excellent video, I so enjoyed all the parts about hemp & nettle fibers! :) thank you!

[@resourcedragon]

G'day Kristine. Fascinating video, thank you. I've got a question: why does the Old Testament forbid the mixing of fibres? Linsey woolsey is the perfect example of a fabric that makes use of available resources (and which I believe made use of shorter staple wools) to produce something useful. The closest parallel that I can think of is the ban on mixing milk and meat (or milk products and meat) which comes from "do not boil the calf in his mother's milk", which always sounds to me like, "do not add gratuitous insult to injury" rather than an actual dietary instruction but which has been interpreted as a dietary instruction. The only guess I could come up with for the fibre mixing was that it might have been possible to mix fibres in a way that imitated a more expensive fibre and the producers of the more expensive fibre wanted to preserve their market. So I'd really welcome an actual, factual answer, please.

[@KristineVike]

I am no religious historian, but since the Old Testament is appropriated from the Torah, Jewish history scholars would be a great start, I think. My favourite, Debbie Lechtman, posted a story once talking about how mixed fibres is an honour reserved only for the highest religious leaders, and therefore prohibited for everyone else. I can’t find it right now, but it sounds like a good place to start!

[@resourcedragon]

@@KristineVike: Oh, great, thank you! I'll have to see if I can find that. Exclusivity does make sense.

[@TheKatelinn]

​@@resourcedragonhi, I watch a channel called Frum it up, Sara is a Sephardic jew, and you might get some answers from her channel regarding mixing of fibres.

[@katrussell6819]

I am retired. I have precious time to go though all the clothing and other textiles in Thrift shops. I buy, gift, and resell the high-test quality stuff I can find and don't need myself. It is a little bit that I can do to help with this problem. I mend things as well. We all can do a bit more.

[@thesentienttoadstool9369]

A caveat: as someone who’s research interest involves Northern Germanic medieval literature, the idea that “women could be warriors/ men could wear pearls” could also be too simplistic: in literature like the shield maiden romances, whenever an AFAB person acted as warrior, they would almost exclusively be referred to with male pronouns. Whenever they they put the sword down and returned to female coded activities, they would go back to using female pronouns. So it’s possible that they believed that “swords are for men, pearls are for women” but the gender identity itself could have been a bit more flexible and not always tied to sex in the pre-Christian past where these stories originated.

[@KristineVike]

That’s an excellent addition! 20th century European archaeologists with their strict gender norms really did a number on interpretation of history.

[@juleshunter9214]

18:29 thank you for telling that. It's something I said for some time, but not many people know/think about it.

[@ruthkirkparick3535]

Fast fashion also encourages us to have more clothes then we really need, because they were cheap. I could have 14 different dresses, for example, and give the impression I am wealthier and/or more "on trend" than other people. Too much emphasis in perceived status.

[@KristineVike]

It has certainly become a challenge. Mending a lot of fast fashion makes me upset though. The squeaky noise the needle makes when fighting through polyester is NOT a good time.

[@resourcedragon]

It's not even just the perceived status. You are sold the idea that this new garment will make you look like your idealised self, beautiful, sexy, whatever it is you desire to be.

[@josefinamccarty9271]

I want to thank you for this Q&A segment...I have learned a lot more than yesterday....Since I have been watching your videos, and listening to your conversation , I have been mending my clothes, such as making my pijama pants a bit shorter instead of giving them away. sewing my grocery bags better for durability. mending my socks, "darning them" thanks you for that segment....... I am waiting for next Q&A Thank you., greetings from USA . south Florida. Josefina Mccarty....

[@KristineVike]

I am so happy you enjoyed it! Mending and darning feels really rewarding. I love it.

[@sternenregen5489]

Once I tried to count the different plantfibers in the world that are used. I could not find an end...

[@KristineVike]

Love it. Variety makes everything so much more fun.

[@KamalaWhitaker]

Thank you thank you thank you!!! I soooo love these history talks!

[@KristineVike]

Glad you enjoyed it! ❤️

[@theextremelyawesomecleaningpro]

You should do a video about the history of viscose aka art silk aka fake silk and so on i know its been used in clothing for a long time and now in carpets and curtains and also how it was banned from being manufactured in the US because them horrible chemicals used to manufacture it drove the factory workers mad

[@KristineVike]

You mean like this? 👀 The Surprisingly Dangerous Story of Viscose kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZqGtqH15rNuMn6s

[@deszeldra]

So as an Australian: most of our raw wool is exported to Italy for conversion to fabric or even yarn. Which makes it probably less of a carbon footprint for you than for us having it shipped halfway across the world TWICE ☹️

[@KristineVike]

Whyyy did we set up the world like this? 🫠

[@caliburrn1]

do one about cotton mercerisation!

[@Gertyutz]

7:00 about women warriors--In a Viking grave, a women has been found surrounded by her weapons, the same as the men in nearby graves.

[@pampelmouse]

Do you have any more information on fine nettle fabrics because i can't find much

[@prinpelletier7754]

❤ Not related to the video but want to get your attention: Would love to see a video talking about the textile pattern similarities in cultures around the world

[@thebluedot4728]

why do clothes start to smell and how to change the smell without scented laundry detergent from walmart

[@stevezytveld6585]

Just pausing to say - you do reference checks in your videos... Sorry, just had to geek out to that. Thank you. The early textile examples feeds my personal theory that sewing is as old, if not slightly older than fire. They're both technology that makes movement into the glacial regions possible. If we were doing it, my bet is so were the Neanderthals. - Cathy (&, accidently, Steve), Ottawa/Bytown/Pimisi

[@KristineVike]

I cannot help myself (and the refs are all listed out in my description because YES!) 😁

[@stevezytveld6585]

I'm looking at going back to school for my MA in Art History (twisting that degree as much as humanly possible into a textile/dress history direction). I will always encourage and appreciate a good reference... lol@@KristineVike

[@TorchwoodPandP]

@@stevezytveld6585 Hi Cathy, over the years I have enjoyed your comments on a number of videos we both view. I’m chuffed that you are pursuing Art Textile History. My advice is to see if you can learn how to weave. It’s fun, and it will widen your understanding of fabrics by leaps and bounds. Anyway, wishing you all the best! ❤

[@stevezytveld6585]

@@TorchwoodPandP Thanks! Actually, I already know how to weave. My Mum was active in the crafts movement in the 70's & 80's. Sewing dolls, weaving textiles the whole classic 80's Craft Fair wares. She once bought a fleece to natural dye, card and weave. If she did it, I dabbled... I'm actually taking up lacemaking to learn a different aspect of weaving. It's cool that we've been shadowing each other over the years in the comment section. Good for you on having your own channel. Well done. I've been playing with the idea of starting my own...

[@1One2Three5Eight13]

Having just read a book about the history of handweaving here in Canada, I learned about the fact that we had used a lot of linsey-woolsey fabric here early on (what with flax seeds being easier to ship than sheep), and asked an interpreter at a local historic site about that. In fairness to the interpreter, we're not in the earliest settled part of the country (mid 19th century in my city), so it's not a huge problem that they didn't know about this, but they considered it entirely improbable, given the extra labour for making linen. I was so disappointed to discover that they not only didn't know this, they didn't believe it could be true. I'm so glad to learn that you can dye with phragmites! They're horrible invasive here. (I wonder if the effects you mention from how the dye took resulted in the fabric being easily identifiable by sight back in the day, which would explain Anne's shame in her "horrible" dress that she arrived in in Anne of Green Gables - it would have been visibly obvious to everyone that she was wearing a charity dress from cheap fabric.) I have heard of bamboo being directly processed into fibre. I don't know what process they use, and it's my understanding that it's very uncommon, but actual bamboo fibre is a thing, not just "viscose sourced from bamboo".

[@KristineVike]

I would be curious about bamboo processed into fibre without the long chemical process!

[@1One2Three5Eight13]

@@KristineVike So am I! I've never seen a source say much more than "it exists". And now I'm even starting to question if it really is a thing, or if it's like "dandelion root gives magenta dye", which was someone misunderstanding a source, and then everyone either cites them, or goes back and checks the source but is primed to make the same mistake, and it spreads!