Beastars Vs Zootopia on Discrimination

[@Krossxc]

I have no idea where all the recent attention being brought to this video is coming from but it doesn’t really matter and I probably should have addressed this a long time ago instead of letting it fester. The segment in which I talk about rape is not (and never was) how I feel on the subject. Normally, I would let it be for the sake of artistic preservation, but frankly, it’s causing me too much trouble, so I’m cutting it out of the video. Still, I do at least want people who are new to this video to know what I’m talking about, so the segment of the video that was cut after 9:34 goes like this (or at least as close as youtube auto generated subtitles cad get): “anyway there is one thing about Lugosi and harus relationship which I don't think quite lands as well as other aspects of it and that is their dynamic as predator and prey Lego she's instincts as a wolf is to devour harder their first interaction was when Lego she lost control of his killer instinct and nearly ate her this is yet another reason he feels guilty for having feelings towards her but I think that this aspect of their relationship is a little less analogous to humans you could definitely argue that this is supposed to be a metaphor for the male instinct to rape women especially if you're a fan of Sigmund Freud which is supported in how lega she says that as long as he's a carnivore he can never truly understand what it's like to live in constant fear of his life and in that one bit where go ahead and basically tells Lego she to get post nut clarity to make sense of his feelings towards Haru I love that [ __ ] Panda but the thing is that carnivores killer instinct is also heavily implied to be a metaphor for drug addiction a notable aspect of be stars world is its black-market of meat and well I shouldn't need to explain the connection here there's also the fact that bill was literally doping on rabbits blood the thing is that substance abuse only primarily harms the abuser long term and yet be stars has created a situation where in the context of the show it is also yet another way that those with privilege can harm those without it just kind of makes certain moments in the show a little confusing in terms of what message the audience should be taking away from them whether you want to look at it as drug addiction or the urge to rape and it absolutely could be symbolic of both I think it's still interesting that the show provides a sympathetic case study of someone with these urges because as much as everyone loves to demonized drug addicts and especially rapists and act like they're in the position they are in completely of their own volition it's important to keep in mind that that isn't always the case and more likely than not they wish that they didn't have those urges yes even rapists even pedophiles are almost certainly acutely aware that their urges are not acceptable and want to change and since they have no chance of being able to openly talk about those urges in efforts to make improvements in themselves I think that having a fictional character who can represent these people in a sympathetic manner is a good thing” The biggest thing to keep in mind is that I wrote this video like 2 years ago when I was 16. Yeah, it’s an apology trope, but it’s true. I wasn’t as good of a writer or speaker and I wasn’t as culturally aware as I am now (basically, I didn’t really grasp how serious the issues I was talking about were. And so I didn’t go out of my way to be more specific and clear with the point I was making. These things collectively led to a lot of misunderstandings. First and foremost, I do not believe that all rapists rape because they have an insatiable urge to do so which is analogous to a predator's urge to eat meat. That is absolutely not the case. Everyone should be held responsible for their actions. But people believed that’s what I meant because I said “urge to rape” when describing the kind of person that Legoshi is supposedly analogous to. And that was a poor choice of words especially since I didn’t elaborate on what that entailed. I should have explained that this segment was only meant to apply to the very small subsection of rapists who, for whatever reason, had an external factor that played into why they committed the crime that they did. And I know that those types of people exist. Personally, I was thinking of mental illness or possibly being on a mind altering substance, but I also recall one commenter who described how she was raped by a then friend who did so because he had been abused himself, and because their relationship was the only part of his life that he had some semblance of control over. And she ended up forgiving him and feeling bad for him. (Sorry me if the details aren’t perfect. This was a long time ago) So when I said something like “I think that having a fictional character who can represent these people in a sympathetic manner is a good thing,” I was specifically referring to rapists who would be capable of rehabilitation, or through whatever circumstance, shouldn’t be as harshly condemned as others. “These people” was not in reference to all rapists. Now, again, I do not mean to characterize all rapists in this way, nor do I mean to make excuses for this small sliver of rapists that I’m focusing on. However, I’ve also seen a *lot* of people who genuinely seem to believe that 100% of rapists deserve to die. And I just don’t think that’s the case. If you've seen almost any of my videos, it should be very obvious that I’m very anti-absolutist. Moreover, I should have made it much more clear from the start that I don’t believe that the carnivores instincts work particularly well as a metaphor for rape. I started that segment of the script with “there is one thing about Lugosi and harus relationship which I don't think quite lands”. Point here is that this segment was spurred by my observation that when you’re addicted to a substance, you effectively don’t have a choice in whether or not you will use it. That’s what an addiction is. But you absolutely do have a choice in whether or not you would rape someone. I just became interested in the implications of such a metaphor being drawn between Beastars and real life and straight up got side tracked. Also worth noting is that I had recently listened to a podcast in which the members touch on the topic of Beastars and all this rape stuff which is definitely why I had that in my head. And I basically just shoved it into the script without enough consideration towards the context that it would be spoken in. That is, a more formal, pointed essay that comes off like I have a thesis statement to prove, instead of just a group of friends having a conversation about a show they just watched and saying whatever came into their head. Here’s the podcast: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gaimfoSLbNCGjaM Also, I’m not even really sure why I wrote “whether you want to look at it as drug addiction or the urge to rape and it absolutely could be symbolic of both...” I suppose I was just looking for an easy way to transition into my next point. I tend to do this a lot -starting with one idea and trembling on about a tangentially related topic- and in this case, I think it distracted from the fact that this whole section was an exploration of a reading of Beasters that one *could* have, even though it isn’t one I necessarily agreed with. That was actually the point of the whole Sigmund Freud reference. I planned to annunciate the phrase “especially if you're a fan of Sigmund Freud” in a sort of “if you're into that, but I’m not” manner. The joke being that Sigmund Freud was a nutcase. He seemed like an egomaniac, his theories were widely sexual and that you’d just generally have to have some pretty questionable beliefs to take the stuff he said to heart. (For example, he believed that all women had “penis envy”) Unfortunately, I didn’t lean very hard into that comedic tone of voice and so a lot of people seem to think that I actually agree with Freud’s theories which, of course, fed into everything else. Closing thoughts: There are comments of me arguing with people over this point, and while I don’t remember exactly what I said in those comments, I do remember feeling like people were missing the point of the video and straw manning me, so I’m pretty sure I was more defensive of the video than I am now. Obviously, I can’t go through every one of them and explain my thought process, so just to be safe, I’m gonna disavow anything that I’ve said in the comments (and in this video, duh). So just consider this my complete current opinion on the matter. I do not mean to absolve myself of any blame with this comment. Yadayada I’ve improved since then and a misunderstanding on this level will almost certainly never happen again. You get the jist.

[@chaeviviana]

……

[@Jess-rk2ut]

I like the detail you've put into explaining yourself. All a person can really ask of you is that you acknowledge what you said was flawed and that you work towards improvement, which is evident here. Thank you for taking that part out of your video and please continue to be weary of the words and opinions you share on your platform

[@BillErak]

@@Luna-rg6er Yes, yes it is better. Now, allow me to be very clear in one thought: I am of the belief that all rapists should fucking die. Preferably in a horrifying manner, with as much suffering as possible. However, Kross is not justifying anything here. They're looking at it from the very simple point of view that not all humans are the same, and their opinion on punishment is different than ours. Saying some of them don't deserve to die is not the same as saying "They should be left alone" or that they deserve more empathy than the victims. Stop trying to demonize someone who simply has a slightly different opinion than ours, especially when it's clear they don't mean at all what you're implying.

[@mhm77887]

@@BillErak exactly. i kept going back to the part where he said something "horrific" as people kept implying and did not find it. He never said that rapists should be forgiven or something. The extent to which people online are willing to demonized someone is kind of crazy.

[@Krossxc]

@@mhm77887 glad we seem to see eye to eye. Btw I use they/them pronouns

[@jaedonklb603]

"Zootopia is idealistic while Beastars is realistic" - That's a great line.

[@alonnehring402]

both are shows about talking walking animals so ...

[@eyralemah]

and both represent a very real thing, societal structures in the form of the animal kingdom@@alonnehring402

[@Judyhopps-1iq]

again with this load of criticisms shit why is it with youtube that poeple like u want to CRITICISM movies its wrong.

[@crisunderwood8110]

do you know what a metaphor is?

[@magnarcreed3801]

@@crisunderwood8110 Except it’s a bad metaphor u less you’re trying to say some groups are legit born violent and meaner.

[@JaxBaxwell8819]

“Am I becoming a furry?” -literally anyone who watched beastars ever.

[@lunargoth9371]

Ikr that’s me rn 😂😂😂

[@Dratina]

Except those who're already furries >.>

[@Nick-di9dv]

Already LOL. Embrace it you cannot escape from the furrynes.

[@DarwinskiYT]

Unless they already were a furry

[@lylathepiratefox]

Fool, I was a Furry before watching Beastars

[@TrashCanSienna]

I feel that the biggest difference between Zootopia and beastars is that; Zootopia is a world where humans are animals, and Beastars is a world where animals are humans. I think it makes sense that we cannot relate to the conflict of carnivores struggling to not eat herbivores, as it is something that strictly relates to beastars. This, I think allows a very dynamic form of world building to happen. Allowing the world of beastars to opposite ours, whilst still leaving itself open to create societal conflicts that we can still relate to, helps us understand our social issues in contrast to theirs, only by using a more animalistic lens to discuss these said topics. (Btw now that the comments are back- i will admit that i wrote this in response to the now deleted rp section. That part in the video just didn't sound right to me- hence my comment interpretation of the whole carnivores eating herbivores part)

[@bananajam6393]

Sienna The Great AGREE SO MUCH! Very well worded!

[@pepo-sama7276]

You have big brain energy my friend😎✌🏻

[@mythicaldragon4354]

Arc 3 would be really cool, because they really focused on "society".

[@igotbangtan4555]

I would give you A+ for this comment if it was your assignment and if I was your teacher. Well written. 👍

[@sidwoods9723]

Other way around I think

[@SebiSpartan]

I think zootopia is good at explaining it in a child-friendly way, while beastars is more realistic and mature.

[@VietReze]

And gumball the most realistic and mature of them all

[@XDLR]

@@VietReze Gumball?

[@Judyhopps-1iq]

GOOD FOR U i got zootopia on bluray and that all that matters dont care about your dam FUKING criticism and opinion im happy with it and have it with my mcu phase 1 2 3 and endgame National Treasure and the finest hours and more and there nothing u can do about it And also anime is trash and hollywood is better!!

[@rockedsocks301]

@@Judyhopps-1iq good lord, who hurt you 😨 they were just stating their opinion chill out lol people can have differences in interests

[@Judyhopps-1iq]

@@rockedsocks301 well they should keep their opinions to themselves cause i dont care about their trash opinions on my likes

[@taycat34]

Beastars is more like "Discrimination" and Zootopia is more like "Empowerment" Beastars talks about how you'll be discriminated against, Zootopia talks about how to overcome it. But that's just what I think.

[@jxomxo]

Come on, Beastars isn’t that bleak. It too has ways of showing how one can overcome their insecurities, by using their talents and naturally gifted abilities to do good.

[@t-b073]

Beastars made it also seem like you just can't change who you are. At least not so easily, which is also true at some cases. But when moments came when some characters DID change, it wasn't really for the good

[@arthursemeghinigallo3336]

@@t-b073 I mean,I really likes Louis change,but I kinda agree with you.But sometimes change are good and other time they are bad,so I think this very realistic,actually.

[@danielgs3939]

@@jxomxo i think it fully reveals only in season 2. I personally feel like S1 depicted the problem in general and how characters go through their personal issues, while S2 shows how to overcome them. That's why I think it's also the reason for S2 being much more dynamic and full of action in comparison to sentimental scenes in S1.

[@slothful2039]

Honestly I see beastars as a series that integrates themes of discrimination into its story but is very much still in its own world. The discrimination itself relies heavily on the context of the world and I'm not saying zootopias doesn't either but zootopia seems to have its themes more rooted in reality and even there it's allegorical of course. Really good video by the way both of these series are awesome as you said.

[@bananajam6393]

Tora AGREE SM!!

[@thetwilighthunter1150]

Oh yah, just by the simple fact the predators actually have killer instinct naturally. Which is an argument that slave owners and white supremacists used and use to justify their oppression. The metaphor falls apart once you consider that, but it’s still an amazing series and I love it deals with those themes despite it being a tad troubling if you were to apply its logic to real life.

[@trinitymorgan7814]

I actually disagree, I think beastars has a more realistic view of discrimination in society, even if we don’t see or are privy to them all the time.

[@slothful2039]

@@trinitymorgan7814 I agree that it has themes of irl discrimination but it's certainly not 1 to 1. After all people in real life don't have the urge to eat each other.

[@StupidTrashCat]

10:00 If you want to be philosophical, Siegmund Freud is absolutely not the man to quote. He and his theories are very much looked down upon in the field. I won't even adress how ludacris the comparision is in the first place

[@scp--297]

So true. Siegmund Freud may be the father of physiology but he ain't the daddy. Many of his theorys are completely wrong but hey. We wins some, we lose some. At least we got daddy jokes out of it.

[@Krossxc]

I addressed this in the pinned comment

[@prcervi]

Freud was documented to have some good methodology and reasonable deductions but then he looked where the paychecks were coming from, and all work integrity got shoved out a window

[@ringo4543]

It's still widely taught in schools though.

[@jackpreacher3514]

Yeah, as someone who is learning psychiatry Sigmund Freud is a joke. But his Ego, Id and Super Ego is good though. That one is sane enough, if we exclude his explanations that Id is sexual urges. Carl G Jung is to esoteric for my taste.

[@strangerr13]

Beastars is the first show I have seen that can’t be directly tied to humans. There is a few rough ways you can ties themes together but it doesn’t do the show justice to translate it into human society. Beastars is very unique in that way.

[@ssffe529]

That's what I love about Beastars. It's its own world that has its own problems that are hard to comprehend as a human due to it being more animalistic and complex. You can't really directly pin point it to human society because it's too hard to.

[@sourseeker301]

It can't? Cannibalism and Adrenchrome is pretty much the core of that show and how they can't do it in public so they go to black market... just like in irl.

[@charleh3493]

Gosh thank you, it has it's own world completely seperate from humans

[@daringangel6297]

I saw in multiple places that the creator of the manga said that there are humans in Beastars but they are extremely rare

[@meepmoop2308]

@@sourseeker301 but its not like half the human population has an innate desire to eat other humans...

[@clown5353]

I think a lot of rapists don't really want to change, I've heard a lot of stories of rapists saying shit like "I like following woman home to frighten them" or "I like taking advantage of men to feel powerful" it's almost like rapists LIKE to do these things because they feel powerful or something. This is just what I think, I feel like it is REEEEEAAALLLYY harmful to say "most rapists want to change" of course saying "people with the urge to force themselves into another want to change" is different, but still dangerous I think, I mostly agree with everything you said but that one part kinda sat with me the wrong way

[@MillipedeDatingSim]

100% agree. Studies have shown that rapists are typically the least likely out of all types of criminals to feel remorse for their actions. Saying things like "rapists are just acting on instinct" or "they couldn't control themselves!" or "I'm sure they feel real bad about it!" only contributes to the idea that rape is justifiable. I get what he was saying, but he worded it in the worst way possible

[@skyshale]

This

[@Smokesomeham]

@@skyshale this what

[@BlackRose-rp7kv]

Ive read a forum for rapists(not me btw ;( I just like reading creepy shit) and a poster said he doesnt get random urges its just when he sees someone vulnearable he knows whether or not he can follow them rape them and get away with it he starts to think about it I think it is partly a power thing

[@kanekisama5491]

Well, I know many of rapists or pedophiles or people with ... "strange" sexual behavior don't want to change but some do and some of them are afraid of their minds. Because it's something that sometimes u can't control well or u don't have control at all. I know that it's dangerous way to think because u can end up giving attencion or a second chance to someone who doesn't deserve and this person problably will hurt or hurted someone. But I truly believe that some of them want to chance and are afraid of their actions. Ok, I know this coment sounds weird so I'm sorry. And I agree with black rose

[@armongonzalez2193]

Zootopia is what people wish society was Beastars is the reality of our world.

[@UndersCatts27]

Not really actually, Zootopia is more close to our real society then beastars

[@sourseeker301]

@@UndersCatts27 Maybe in a fantasy rainbow land.

[@UndersCatts27]

Sour Seeker I wasn't talking about the society of Zootopia but mor with the mentality of people in here

[@doughhhboi1731]

@@sourseeker301 i dont think people have an instinctual urge to eat other people

[@sourseeker301]

@@doughhhboi1731 Not the common folk. But the rich do.

[@donovan9456]

I love the video and find your analysis interesting. However, I do find it unfair that you compare Haru, an 18 year old, to Judy, a 25+ year old. Judy is an adult who has had time to come to terms with who she is, and what she wants. Haru is still very young and doesn't know herself. I look back now when I was 18, and I cringe because I thought I knew myself, when in fact I knew jack-shit. Haru has found a way of expressing herself so that she doesn't feel helpless. Maybe in ten years, she might find a way to exert that dominance in a way similar to Judy. But to say that a grown woman is "better" than a teenager who is still finding themselves is very unfair.

[@donovan9456]

@Burp Gun I don't want to diss you. I respect your opinion. A friend told me that upon watching the first few episodes, she didn't know what to make of Haru's sexuality. I asked her, would we think of it differently if Haru were male? It's part of our culture to think that leading ladies should be untouched, or at least not be open with their sexuality so that it is reserved for the protagonist. I, however, love Haru's sexuality. It makes her different from any other anime female side character. It adds depth to her character because it is the one thing she can use to express that she is not helpless, that she is worthy. And plus, she's 18. Most teenagers are having sex, and so long as Haru is having consenting sex with willing partners, then I think it's completely fine. To judge Haru for sleeping around is to be like the characters that bullied Haru in the show.

[@sunflower2187]

The slut shaming I have seen towards Haru is so depressing because I know it would not be the same if she was male, nobody would say shit. Teenagers sleep around there's absolutely nothing wrong with it at that age you're learning about yourself in the world, Haru of course uses sleeping around as a coping mechanism and even admits it's not very healthy for her psyche. The lack of compassion towards her character just because she's the female love interest who should be untouched and devoted to the male lead is so discouraging to see when, the author did such a good job at portraying such a realistic predicament that happens in a lot of young women's lives

[@sunflower2187]

@Burp Gun I'm rational because I'm talking from personal experience? And when I say teenagers I mean 17-19 is when people start experimenting sexually, its okay if you dont think it's morally right, that's your opinion, but don't try to put your morals on others. If a teenager is having SAFE consensual sex, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, demonizing sexuality is what is damaging for a person growing up.

[@bananarama3839]

I can agree, but he wasn’t mean to Haru.

[@pikapower2114]

@@donovan9456 I agree, it gave haru character a lot of depth and nice to see a different perspective of girls and how they cope with their insecurities. I also love haru character too.👌👍

[@nadillasakinah950]

One thing Beastars got it right: The have other animals more than mammals in their world. Makes the whole Black Market and group tension more conflicted. Since birds and reptiles are known to be prey for carnivorous mammals. Even predatory ones

[@dirandrous7682]

I find it baffling why they didnt include reptiles and birds in Zootopia. Reptiles arent that hard to animate maybe (dont at me, im not an animator), though i get it that animating feathers is tricky but they pulled off fur really well.

[@emilyvalentine4565]

Anonymous Indoraptor feathers could actually be easier as in most species they’re built to stick to each other for aerodynamic reasons that mammals don’t have

[@semisocialhedgehog6968]

@@dirandrous7682 im a practicing/new animator! Reptails ARE DIFFICULT REALLY A PROBLEM but when you get it to draw its really simple!

[@ElectricPansies]

Anonymous Indoraptor I thought it was implied that they’re not shown because they are the food for the Carnivores lol, am I wrong?

[@sakuraice22]

@@dirandrous7682 I think they only included mammals because now days mammals are the group that would be more likely to evolve the way the animals of Zootopia did (The dominant and more adaptive group), basically, they just removed the humans from the evolutionary history and so the rest of the mammals already had a bigger headstart than reptiles, birds, fish and insects

[@articusramos808]

Heres a good thing to think about, remember anything about the original Zootopia Plot? The orginal plot had carnivorous animals wear shock collars to control them.

[@ssffe529]

Not only that but Nick was the protagonist and wanted to build an amusement park where carnivores are free of their collars. It would've been more gut wrenching to see that Taming Party scene in the film and Nick finding ways to get around it.

[@articusramos808]

@@ssffe529 yup. The taming party.

[@awts..7954]

It would've been interesting tho

[@42Mrgreenman]

@@awts..7954 Yeah, they should have played up the mafia carnivores led by the mostly plant eating shrew and the herbivore cops led by the politically correct lion...with Nick caught between keeping his front business up, while paying off the mafia for the underground amusement park...Fertile ground for some classic mobster comedy, Scorcesse, De Niro, De Caprio, Pachino, Peschi, Gandolfini. So much good material to draw from!

[@rosasunsprite8901]

Maybe they didn't decide to use the idea because they thought it was too dark for kids?

[@joaoguimaraes543]

For me the main diferences between both is- Zootopia: bullying tension Beastar: gay tension

[@Tairafan]

Haru was told out right that she isn't strong, and never will be. Everyone did everything for her, so she never even had a chance to become stong. She is brave, resilient, and very intelligent. I believe the only reason she never faut back against her bullies is because everyone told her she could never. Judy wasn't having any of that. She saw situations where she needed to be strong, and dove in. I'm pretty sure the only reason they got caut by that mob of polar bears because fighting back would have taken up too much runtime.

[@vermilion6966]

No matter how many times you will tell that say some lady thats 150 cm tall she can be strong shes never gonna be as strong as a 180-200 cm man (providing its an average man and woman with no defects,disabilities and such) So beastars tells you the reality of the situation. There are some limitations that dont go away with just hard work. Zootopia can be all insipational and sht but its unrealistic as -uuuuuck. You can be *smarter* , you can be more *cunning* , you can be *faster* but saying that in this example a bunny is just as rip as a wolf in zootopia is laughable. In reality, she should have failed those fitness tests save for something like agility but find other ways to get the job done

[@bobraekevelt7953]

@@vermilion6966 no, beastars shows you what would be the reality if you didn’t to anything to change it. If a small woman took for example boxing classes she would be a lot closer to beating a tall guy then she was before and would be a lot safer, its not because you’re short that you can’t at least take self defence classes. Judy is shown to have discrimination on the work field rather than being shown to be physically weaker and overpowered by strange men. Judy was shown to work twice as hard to get half as far as the other animals and still got there. Zootopia showed that no matter you’re gender, if you work hard for something you can achieve it. Beastars showed that men are stronger then women, sorry🤷‍♀️🫶 You can call it realistic, but its not less realistic then Zootopia, the difference is that one of the two just accepted her faith and the other decided to work as hard as she needs to work to get there too.

[@vermilion6966]

@@bobraekevelt7953 you clearly didnt watch or read beastars, honey. Because thats the opposite of what it shows, no matter if youre carnivore or herbivore, most characters there shiwed to struggle to either defy theyre physically weak like Louis or Defy their bloodthirst like legoshi. Youve no idea what youre talking about, not one bit. By training physically all you achieve is that you become more fit than the average woman, in that case. And its not enough to make you equal with men in strenght. I remember a case in my country when a male champion in martial arts was like still robbed or some sht, her training helped her zero. And i remember watching one of the true crimes stories about a Police woman that was graoed and then killed by a freaking janitor when she was heading to work. What i said was never about not doing anything to train or get fit, Just the fact of biological reality. Traini g gets you a better chance against such things, but thats about it. The reality will still remain that theres a difference in strenght in biological sexes and it wont go away Just because you sang an inspirational song You can achieve something no matter the gender if your goal is REALISTIC. and zootopia didnt dig deep enough, because its for Da Kids, so its way less realistic. Beastars can be compared with monster ink thatcrealistically showed that char whose Name i dont remember that even if you try your hardest, some goals cant be achieve like being scary when youre Just not and when you cant be x Just via sheer FORCE of will, you will need to think more flexibly about your othe strenghts. Zootopia lacks those nuanses its like YeY anyone can do anything. No they fkn cant. They can Just be better but thats not the same

[@bobraekevelt7953]

@@vermilion6966 You can't live in a very not sexist country because half of the girls here are on martial arts and can beat the average man any day. A well trained woman can easily beat a not trained man without weapons and you sound very sexist if you dissagree with that. Sure women are biogically seen less strong but not less strong enough that training wouldn't rank them higher then the average man, at all. I mean you must live somewhere with tiny women, very likely a lot of propaganda and a lot of sexism to think a well trained woman in martial arts wouldn't keep up with an average guy. Look for example at things like American Ninja Warrior, they also let women complete and though most don't get as far as the men competing, their still way over any average guy. And yeah I did watch beastars and it honestly anoyed me how Haru didn't even try to defend herself and how terrible racism is portrayed in the show, but keeping in mind that anime is eastern it made sense. Its not just that zootopia is made for kids, its that its made for Western countries in which racism and sexism are less severe and women have already done a lot of progress in being seen as equal as men. Zootopia portrayed perfectly that even tho Judy got discrimination on the work floor, she could achieve the same as the big bad animals by working a lot harder then them. And thats a vieuw that is very praised in Western countries and very often used in movies and things like that. Someone poor can become richer then someone born rich, someone weak can become stronger then someone born stronger and someone born less smart can obtain a higher job then someone who was born smart. In western society its all about working to get to where you want no matter who you are, thats individualism. In eastern society theres still much more tradition, much more obeying to you're parents and family, much more gender roles and that you can see in beastars.

[@chadleach6009]

Helps to have a lot of plot armor when your a tiny bunny going up against polar bears.

[@sid7906]

Its shows/movies like these that make me consider me being a furry more and more.

[@shanicejackson7358]

Ikr

[@machimaru]

Would say same but I’m already a furry so i don’t got nothin to lose lmao

[@strawberryfox8819]

No, I've just accepted that I am a furry.

[@tavrosnitram1529]

Dont have to have a fursona to be a furry

[@prettyfish6747]

J 0 i N T H e *c U L t*

[@starjapowers]

Alright, you had me until you started getting into rapists and drug addicts. I can be more sympathetic to drug addicts since the situations can vary sometimes, but rapists usually do it for power; not urges. Can urges play a part? Maybe, but that argument is so much more than just Freud's theory.

[@Mmk12a]

In my opinion, a lot of Freud's ideas are a joke.

[@aquiline-eagle9669]

I don’t know enough about Freud to speak upon this with authority but I’ve heard that his assessments have come under rapid fire and are seen as not very accurate anyway. And yes there’s way way more accountability with rape over drug addiction. They’re really not comparable.

[@presumptuouspreposterous]

@@aquiline-eagle9669 (i already stated this in another comment but i thought it was relevant here too) yeah. rapists are capable of controlling themselves and their actions are their own; saying that it's more of an urge for them than it is something in their control is low-key really fucked, as it feels like it's trying to give some of them a 'pass' of sorts. i've read interviews held with rapists and all of them knew what they were doing and didn't have some sort of 'uncontrollable urge'; they did it out of a desire to torture, control and do awful fucking things. they knew what they were getting into.

[@dreamwolf7302]

Freud was actually posthumously diagnosed with one of his own conditions. Its been argued that his fixation on blaming so many mental illnesses on 'bad mothers' is a direct reflection of his own obsession over his own mother. His personal diary detailed some rather...vivid descriptions of what he felt were his mother's failings. He blamed his mother for his...failure to perform under pressure? (guy couldnt keep it up) and for his being bullied by fellow students during his younger school years. Its a running theory that his studies and experiments may be flawed, and are obviously biased, by his own hatred of his mother (and a possible sexual obsession with her as well). He went into the work, and he already knew the answers he wanted, so likely steered the research to show what HE thought it should. As for rapists and urges. The majority have a sense of entitlement, which is a social issue, likely caused by 'nurture' based problems, while a small minority are mentally impaired in such a fashion that they are not only unable to under WHY it is wrong, they are unable to understand WHY they want to do it. (these people often have autism like behaviors in normal social situations.) Source: Minored in Psychology in college.

[@boomer7004]

Yea I also agree that rapists and pedophiles usually have some form of manipulation involved, im not sure that him saying that rapists having urges is the metaphor for predators wanting to eat pray. In the show and manga, the urge is usually sudden when it involves with a predator that seems normal. They attack suddenly and can’t control themselves, while rapists and pedos do have control over that, and use that control to just control their victims

[@ShinigamiWolf]

Chad Beastars > virgin Zootopia

[@vebz_6872]

Listen here you lil shit-

[@geministrial950]

F a c t s

[@dreamwolf7302]

Pretty sure Judy lost her virginity before Haru, at least in the Fanart...

[@justsomeguyontheinternet3822]

@@dreamwolf7302 *fuck i have vietnam flashbacks of zootopia fan comics.*

[@glauberzx8860]

@@dreamwolf7302 now... *YOU* listen here your lil shit

[@beepboop1503]

I feel like we forget that Haru is very suicidal.. she'd risk her life to have sex with a carnivore, knowing the urges, and i find that real sad..

[@mhm77887]

True, spoilers for the show- the way she said in one episode that she doubts that anyone would care if she was eaten with a light smile is just sad.

[@skedosh576]

Not to mention giving her self away to melon

[@obsixd1346]

Both shows kinda makes you hate lion mayors who dispied having good intentions ended up doing the wrong thing. The mayor in zootopia wanted to help the animals that were savaged (?) but instead of, idk, better health care or something, he commended his men to kidnap the victims, bring them to an asylum (correct me if I'm wrong) and let his personal docters do who-knows what do those animals, all because he was afraid to lose his position as the mayor. The one in Beastars declined any help for Haru when she was kidnapped by destroying the evidence, lying to his citizen that the authorities will investigate and making sure that Louis (our precious and traumatized baby) forgets about Haru by 'removing his past' (I can't exactly remember what it was) because he was also afraid of losing his position as the mayor.

[@alis4162]

ngl the mayor in beastars, his face creeped me out

[@AdaminTranzit]

I understood lion mayor. I mean he was right

[@faustina9328]

He looks like a lion flashlight I had when I was little. ​@@alis4162

[@dumbledoratheexplora1140]

i think beastars is 10x more interesting mostly because it is it's own world we can look at rather than an animal mimic of our world like in zootopia. not every social issue can be a 1:1 ratio in beastars but there are some overlapping aspects. Zootopia trying to mirror the issues of the real world feel more clunky and ham-fisted to me.

[@ssffe529]

I agree with you. I think Zootopia only got down on stereotypes and focused on that than complex issues but since it's a kids film it would be hard to fit all of that in there unlike what BEASTARS has with it's many pages of complex overlapped issues that work well within its own world.

[@bananajam6393]

So true

[@tavrosnitram1529]

You should check out what zootopias original plot was supposed to be It was so much more fucken interesting (and sad)

[@thepaintingbanjo8894]

@@tavrosnitram1529 The original script of Zootopia was more Beastars than Beastars lel Disney has no real balls.

[@tavrosnitram1529]

@@thepaintingbanjo8894 Disney used to have balls, seems they either shrunk and need to drop again or someone castrated them

[@mincedfriedryce]

Legosi’s hunch is giving him scoliosis and i can relate to his back edit : dayummmmm i never thought I got so many likes waoooo :OO tysm for the 847 likes

[@clownlesbian503]

Scoliosis is something genetic that you're born with, not something you develop. I was born with it and so was my brother, it gets worse if your posture isn't great as you grow up and your spine grows. But it's not something you develop from bad posture.

[@iiNaoki]

"Kyphosis" is the term you're looking for.

[@cutecumber2593]

Sooo.... You're not straight?

[@mydaddusty]

Clown Lesbian not true, I developed it around 6-7th grade and never had any signs of it ever. My mom said that before that cheer physical nobody had ever brought up the thought of me having scoliosis because my spine was fine beforehand

[@TheGamingMexican69]

He apparently hunches over so that he dosnt look as tall as he is to herbivores

[@zixaa]

comparing the carnivore/ herbivore thing to class doesn't work. The thing that makes Beastars so interesting is that herbivores and carnivores are inherently this way and cannot change under any circumstances. although it's not easy, humans absolutely can be born into one class and then change towards a different one, by either gaining a good job or losing a shit ton of money. the whole point of Beastars is that it cannot be put in a human concept because the author makes a point to focus on things that are inherently part of non-human animals and not humans. so saying that Beastars doesn't encourage people to try and change is simply off topic... also did you just compare drug addicts to rapists?????? what????? that is not the same. addiction is an illness. raping is an act that can be carried out by anyone regardless of mental illness. thinking that "the urge to rape" is a thing is complete misunderstanding what rape is... some rapists have no idea that they raped someone. Many rapists rape and then never think about it afterwards, many of them straight up don't care about their victims... again this just shows that it's not possible to put Beastars in a human context. Rapist absolutely can decide not to rape, whereas carnivores have a natural instinct to hunt. The Author of Beastars isn't trying to make clear links with human oppression, unlike zootopia, which clearly tries to make links with issues of racism. So it makes sense to analyse zootopia in a human context but not beastars.

[@howdyimhowdy]

i may disagree with the idea that it may be class but it definitely seems to comment on the concept of people being born with better or worst circumstances,and that beastars comments on a very specific kind of rape, the ones pedophiles commit,that after battling their horrible desires for years they decide to commit the atrocity,they aren't one to one with reality but that's because it's the fact that it's not real what makes it interesting

[@howdyimhowdy]

@@zixaa good point,but if predation inst a metaphor for rape then it has to be tied up to something sexual of some kind because the story keeps tying them together,and in the story predators may have the desire to eat meat but they don't need it to survive,none of the characters have been in danger due to not having eaten meat in a while and it's made pretty clear that they have other ways to get their protein in the form of things like soy, so the pedo allegory could still work

[@linnaedolby663]

Yea the rape part completely threw me off which is too bad because most of the video made sense to me

[@zixaa]

HowdyImHowdy good point. I really wonder how the story will develop, if it will actually be possible for carnivores to be veggie even when growing up

[@Krossxc]

@zixaa Good point about the class thing. I disagree that Beastars is incomparable to human issues though. I also never said that Beastars doesn't encourage people to change. I can see how you would interpret that since I directly called attention to how inspirational Zootopia is in contrast to Beastars though. I see where you're coming from with your point about rape but I think your forgetting that I specifically pointed out that not *every single* rapist or drug addict is in the position they are in due to their own volition. Some definetly are but I made a point not to say "all." Also, not to sound condescending but If you think that there isn't a certain amount of people who are haunted by uncontrolable thoughts of sexual assault and or violence which they know are unacceptable(much in the same way that an addict would be haunted with constant thoughts about how to get another high) and who sometimes give in to those urges, you're kidding yourself. I just hope that people recognize that topics like this aren't always black and white.

[@marialovesshires2385]

I don't think beastars is a metaphor on racism, zootopia comes pretty close to it but not much, it doesn't work because you can't compare the conflict between carnivores vs herbivores and racial conflict, carnivores have a instinct to kill and eat prey, the metaphor would only work if humans were naturally designed to be racist (which is not true, racism is learned)

[@chavez-vb5tm]

How do you know racism is learned?

[@hoominbeeing]

Prove that racism is learned.

[@yourfavoriteoompaloompa139]

Rightt! I agree it does come close but also the Disney movie Zombies is a clear reference to racism

[@sofiasfae1846]

For people saying that racism is natural, why would there be people who aren’t racist? Wild animals like wolves have the instinct to kill; so they all do. But some humans are racist and others aren’t. If it were truly natural, wouldn’t we all be racist?

[@hoominbeeing]

@@sofiasfae1846 So far no one has said it was natural. We would just like to see some evidence that it's learned. Also, just because not all humans are racist does not mean it is not natural. It could be the case that it's natural, but our society has artificially tempered our natural racist instincts- I don't believe this, but merely acknowledge it as a situation where something natural can be tempered through social conditioning.

[@berengerdietiker22]

I've seen Beastars and Zootopia twice. Zootopia was better the first time; Beastars, on the other hand, I loved every minute of it both times. Zootopia has, arguably, the better animation, but Beastars has the better story.

[@FelixTheCat1919_PSN]

True

[@Czesin]

After reading the manga I felt the ending was a bit disappointing compared to the rest of the chapters.

[@berengerdietiker22]

Well, a third season of the anime is in development.

[@Judyhopps-1iq]

GOOD FOR U i got Zootopia film on bluray and that all that matters dont care about your dam FUKING criticism and opinion im happy with it and have it with my mcu phase 1 2 3 and endgame National Treasure and the finest hours! so stop shoving this criticism opinions to people face!

[@artbysarf]

“zootopia is better by the way” aight imma head out

[@zuraimiyahya73]

Yea me too fuck you

[@failingeverything5793]

I mean I personally think that zootopia is better in terms of on the topic of discrimination than beastars. In beastars the herbivores have a reason to fear the carnivores meanwhile zootopia's fears came soley from the media. Both are good on their own ways but zootopia is more accurate for discrimination than beastars. At least in my opinion.

[@artbysarf]

Failing Everything -but Beastars never claimed to be a 1to1 allegory for human discrimination whether based on race or class or anything else. In fact, Beastars world is so pointedly and purposefully different than ours that I don’t think comparing it to Zootopia, a film that very obviously makes direct comparisons to real world racism/discrimination, is a fair or intellectually meaningful thing to do. Like both Harry Potter and LOTR have magic in them, but saying one is better at tackling the subject of magic is a dumb thing to do bc they are explored in such incredibly different ways.

[@JS-po8oc]

@@failingeverything5793 I think the difference there is Beastars was not meant to be a direct allegory about discrimination while Zootopia is. Beastars isn't meant to be a mirror of our world like Zootopia is.

[@kawaiivenus8177]

@@artbysarf You can like both. People can like it different things. I feel Zootopia sends a message better then Beastars but Beastars is great itself. (At least the first arc, after that it kinda falls in quality when it becomes more of a action anime)

[@hyenaedits3460]

I disagree with you on a few points. Not trying to start anything, just putting in my two cents as to how I personally interpret these two stories. 1. Judy didn't "overcome" her disadvantages. They didn't stop existing. She learned to work within them, just like Haru did. And after she graduated from the police academy, despite her good grades, she was given the most menial and unrewarding tasks because of her size. 2. Animal instincts do exist in Zootopia in a more subtle way. Even disregarding the whole plant/drug subplot. They form the basis for the system of discrimination. The fact that animals still use them as justification for their actions means they still play a role. 3. Comparing inherent physical differences to financial class doesn't really help your argument. I get what you're saying and I actually agree for the most part, but financial class can and does change. People win the lottery or find better jobs, and people get robbed or end up in debt. A better comparison would be something like race, body type, disability, or gender. Those things legitimately can't change (trans people exist but that's a complicated situation that would derail the point of this post). For example, Haru's experience mirrors the experience of a lot of women. Because women tend to have less baseline strength than men, they're often infantilized and looked down on. They can't walk outside alone for fear of being attacked. Zootopia does show differences between social groups. Again, Judy's struggle to prove herself. Also Nick's whole arc. It's subtle but it's there. 4. Legosi and Haru's relationship as predator and prey is the best part of their relationship. I don't think it's supposed to be an analogy for the Freudian concept of the male instinct to rape women, but the Jungian concept of the conflict between the shadow self and the conscious self. Aleczandxr does a great video on this concept: kzbin.info/www/bejne/onjZhIKJeLiWiqM Legosi's struggle could be read as analogous to dealing with intrusive thoughts, although I wouldn't say his problem *is* intrusive thoughts. It could also be that, since this series is geared toward older teens and young adults, it's analogous to the difficulty those groups face with regulating their emotions. 5. Drug addiction harms much more than the addict. Drug addicts often are or become abusers themselves. Their addiction deeply affects their families, friendships, responsibilities, and can lead them to commit violent or dangerous crimes. 6. I don't think there's any one specific message Beastars is trying to send. It can be interpreted many different ways. So scenes that are "confusing" as to their message are probably purposely being left open-ended. 7. Rape doesn't work that way: www.nytimes.com/2017/10/30/health/men-rape-sexual-assault.html Pedophilia might be closer to the mark, though still missing it, as Haru is not a small child. That is, like, the main point of her arc.

[@Gudbauc20]

not to say i personally agree with this interpretation, but i've seen more than a few messages/comments about an interpretation of legosi/haru's relationship being one of pedophilia as haru is seemingly portrayed in a very similar fashion to that of a younger child. again, i disagree with the interpretation, but it is one that exists

[@hyenaedits3460]

@@Gudbauc20 Yeah, that always bothered me. I know several short women who have similar problems as Haru. People still treat them as much younger than they actually are, to the point where it affects their careers and love life.

[@ssffe529]

@@hyenaedits3460 I'm an example of that. I was always looked down upon by others and have been condescended to even if I'm older than people. It wasn't because I was a woman though. It was because I sounded young, looked young, and my size didn't help either. It still kind of affects me today in a way where people think I'm 12 when I'm actually 19. I get glares from people when I'm on a date with my bf who's a foot taller than me. I feel iffy on comparing gender or race to BEASTARS since the predators have a desire to eat the herbivores while the herbivores have the instinct of being scared of them whether they want to or not since it's in their DNA. It's unique within its own world and I think the fact that you can relate to it without it being those cases (it can be but only in a metaphorical sense I guess) is really cool. It shows how complex the world, story and the characters are within their own world.

[@starjapowers]

Thank goodness someone else said it. I love Kross, but as a survivor giving a simple "woah is me" argument/monologue to rapists/pedos and addicts ain't it chief. If it were that easy then there probs would be better systems to help out with that. Though my argument applies more to the abusing aspect vs. addicts aspect.

[@alexh6767]

Rant about my personal experiences, don't read if you are a transphobe I have a lot of complexities when I'm perceived by others with my gender. I can pass, and get called bro or man on public transport, or I take classes to work on a farm and dress in frumpy checkered shirt, loose 2002s jeans, ask which boots have no heel - then a man tells me it's not a fashion show before I could say I prefer complete flats because I could fall over with just one inch. I was there to do manual work in mud and rain. I could be looking at catfood section in a supermarket and have a guy approach me and talked to me like a bro just about cats. Or I could deny a job offer and the bloke tells me to grow up honey. Then I could be on dating apps and have women tell me I look 12 - when I am a 24 year old pre T transman (cannot afford privately, been waiting since 2017, was supposed to have my first appointment in march, thanks coronavirus) when I'm on HRT everything will change, my face, skin texture, chest and hips shrink, I will also hit the gym. Also surgeries in the future. One thing that is bothersome is the perception that transmen are submissive, because they are smaller, "most of them are gay" all the negative stereotypes. In fact, from all the transmen I've met online, they are the opposite. I know this video talks about race, and gender, specifically woman and man, as someone that unfortunately bounces between both with how society treats me as a pre T. It's tough. Haru has a big personality for her small body, and she seems different from the small herbs. She is always annoyed, especially how others treat her because she was born that way, is a feeling I can relate to in some way. For Legosi, with his clueless personality, trying to fit in but feeling like you stick out, don't know how to talk to girls, feeling like you're not strong enough (I guess man enough in this case) is something else I can also relate to. Beastars is a fun take on society but it has serious undertones everyone can take a piece of.

[@zeewezel]

I absolutely can't wait for the anime to catch up to the manga, it gets so much better and less confusing honestly

[@grantdong7746]

I think everything up to the Riz fight is solid anime material, but the arcs after that gets a bit messy and weird. Don't know how the anime is going to pull that off.

[@jawdatmarcelle1]

@@grantdong7746 it will be fine, I just hope they give the independence arc the time it needs, it's only 23 chapters but it's the best part of the manga. The love failure arc will be easy to adapt to anime tho, not to different from murder solution arc

[@zeewezel]

@@grantdong7746 I think, if the anime pulls it off well it it might be "better" than the manga, sometimes the manga is a bit confusing but those things can be improved in the adaptstion. which I realy hope happens

[@zeewezel]

@@sunnysiderice saaaame

[@sugarmins]

SunnySideRice SAMEEE tbh I just can't wait-

[@ilianysl4850]

I got got uncomfortable as a woman here the phrase "the male instinct to r@pe" like WHAT-

[@frostbitetheannunakiiceind6574]

Yeah he 's exaggerating there is no extinct to rape he's just fearmongering

[@GabrielBoorom]

As a Man hearing that, especially spoken by another Man, my only reaction is "Okay, we know you drank their Kool aid, Bruh."

[@mr.mittens4970]

I’ve never seen so many long comments that I’m too lazy to read.

[@carodame9419]

Its kinda adorable how the internet is trying so hard to define the metapher in Beastar while the mangaka just wanted to write some furry romance

[@coolflames9042]

"Nah I just wanna see tiddies."

[@TheCoolmaster131]

Seems like you only read the first arc because it's barely on romance these days

[@screamo1642]

"Nah I just wanna see them go at eachother" "in every way"

[@embroideredragdoll]

Internet: Social issues? Mangaka: Rabbet tiddies

[@tirea277]

The male instinct to...what??? I understand him saying that there’s an instinct to impregnate as many women as possible, so that humanity may continue, but...to rape them? Is that a thing? Can somebody explain that to me??

[@lupusincidus]

Sigmund Freud suggests that men have an inherent instinct to rape women. However I wouldn't lend this any legitimacy, as this is the same man who suggested all children feel an inherent sexual attraction to their parents and that's why they seek out romantic partners that mirror them (the Oedipius Complex). Freud's studies are looked at nowadays, but I know think they're really considered very factual anymore. I mean, he was posthumously diagnosed with one of his own conditions and had massive mother issues which is likely why his work constantly blamed the woman and the mother for problems or psychological issues

[@darkraysofsunshine3113]

What the other person said, but I think it needs to be clear that no one in the academic field actually takes what he's said seriously. At this point most of his work has been discredited

[@lupusincidus]

@@darkraysofsunshine3113 yeah, thanks for the addition, I should have made that clear :)

[@1204khalil]

even animales have something called Courtship so i dont think he really understand what is talking about, but its true that animals also rape corpes and others animals

[@drake47367]

@@lupusincidus Yeah, Freud is like a slot machine when it comes to psychology. For every somewhat reasonable thing he said, there's twenty bat shit crazy theories.

[@JackgarPrime]

I do hate being "that guy", but there were so many moments in this analysis where I had to grit my teeth to avoid saying "READ THE MANGA", since a lot of these character arcs, relationship progression, etc, continue on in the manga. The comparison here is a tough one to fully make, as Zootopia is a single, self-contained story within an hour and a half, while Beastars is a continuing story that the anime only gets a relatively small part of. Every main character (and even some minor characters) progress these themes and explore them further. Considering what a hit the anime has been, I'm sure we'll be seeing that continuation in the anime. Also, Haru is the way more interesting character, because she's also surprisingly unique in her role (or at least, the way she plays that role in the plot), views, and actions. Oh, and if you like that physical training stuff you mentioned? Yeah, just wait for the story arcs to come...

[@FreyjaShartSquad]

Yeah, they've only seen a fraction of the story so far! Way too little to compare carnivores to rapists and pedophiles.

[@floralee1645]

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

[@satirical140]

FACTS

[@uma5467]

Where can I read the manga?

[@satirical140]

Uma ? There are manga apps. I recommend Manga Zone. If it has to be online, beware of scams.

[@aestheticarts3149]

Zootopia is simply the kid friendly version. Beaststars is more emotionally darker version that goes in real depth. They both gud

[@kawaiicrossing5047]

Finally, someone else who sees the value in both medias.

[@duoandaone3223]

I study literature in school, and this analysis made me subscribe. If possible make a video one day on how this process goes, thank you

[@Krossxc]

Basically I just start with whatever my thesis statement is and then think of all the examples in the shows I talk about that support my thesis. Then I continually ask "why does this support my opinion" until I feel like someone else would understand where I'm coming from. More recently, I've been trying to mix in a healthy amount of describing personal experience in my life that help explain why I would feel the way that I do about a show.

[@duoandaone3223]

@@Krossxc woah, Thank you so much . This really does help, especially considering that we only get about 2 hours to write 5 analysis essay questions in our exams among other questions. Again thank you so much

[@fenrirthefierywolf4289]

I like your take on these works of art, Kross, but I disagree with you on one thing - the "predator & prey" issue in Beastars. While, yes, it can be seen as a allegory for relationship between male and female, I think it's more of a problem specific for the world of Beastars. Simply because it's a problem that only arises in a world of coexisting carnivores and herbivores. Human society doesn't have this same issue just because we are all same species and we don't eat each other. Same goes for meat consumption.

[@thesamuraispirit7686]

I think the whole predator and prey thing explores the idea of nurture vs nature. Maybe Beastars is more about things you can change and things you cant. The theme of free will vs nature

[@slothful2039]

Sungaleo Gaming At large humans don't eat each other

[@Buglin_Burger7878]

No it does arise, but you're just not looking at it right. Beastars constantly has a group of students in highschool which kills another group and creates regular incidents that appear on the news because they don't properly have a way to help their students deal with their issues. We are waiting for that next highschool shooting, causes by someone being treated terribly and being unable to get the help they need. People who appear similar are bullied and treated terrible... and the cycle repeats. Both have solutions to reduce the odds, but most of society just decides that it is best to treat those showing remote signs as monsters... forcing them to become monsters as that is how the world views them.

[@thesamuraispirit7686]

@@Buglin_Burger7878 interesting viewpoint, thats exactly what i was thinking too a few days back

[@Isolde.rebecca]

I like that beastars has a situation where you can’t completely blame carnivores and it also can’t be compared to human problems. Rapists and carnivores cannot be compared. One is what you need to eat in order to survive and you can’t exactly make eating consensual. You can have sex consesually though

[@Krossxc]

Carnivores don't need to eat meat to survive. Legoshi has gone his entire life without eating meat aside from eggs but that's obviosly not the same.

[@Isolde.rebecca]

@@Krossxc in beastars they don't, it's just a biological urge. I should have worded it better.

[@cloegemmel7177]

Oh boy, I can't wait until you see a certain part of the Beastars manga. Not disagreeing with what you're saying, but something you said is very ironic

[@Isolde.rebecca]

@@cloegemmel7177 I've read the beastars Manga. Did somethings slip my mind perhaps?

[@PB-qe6ce]

@@Isolde.rebecca It's just what you said about consensual eating, since they have consensual eating in Beastars.

[@Elichan88]

SPOILERS AHEAD: I think what we should consider the most is the Country the author lives in. Paru Itagaki is a Japanese (pretty young) woman. Japan's population is more then 99% homogeneous, that's why even with ethnicity still being an issue (especially with Korean and Chinese immigrants), it's not perceived as such by the majority of the population. That's why the analogy "carnivore/herbivore = race" that works in Zootopia can't really be applied here, simply because the audience it's originally intended for (Japanese teenagers and young adults) is different. That's why I believe the gender issue (portrayed by Haru), the living up to expectations (portrayed by Louis, especially in later chapters with the refusal of his past and his duty and eventually coming to terms with it) and dealing with emotions and instincts during adolescence (portrayed by Legoshi) could be more fitting themes. Obviously the Black Market, the carnivores going wild after having meat for the first time, the role of Gouhin as a vigilante and rehab expert, clearly stresses the drug analogy. The whole Yakuza turns that the manga takes after could be some kind of representation of Mafia organizations going from the back alley to the core of society, gaining more and more power and allowing people to live a more "degenerate" lifestyle (for example when carnivores, knowing the mafia groups are gaining power, start expressing their desire to eat meat even in front of herbivores). The only actual cultural conflict that I could find is the juxtaposition of land and marine worlds, with Legoshi not completely understanding the latter where the animal food chain is still a thing. Eventually the whole hybrid issue could be seen as interracial kids (not only with Melon, but with Legoshi's mum too). However interracial kids don't go through the physical changes and problems hybrids in Beastars experience. That's why, despite the whole lot of analogies it's possible to recognize, I think the manga doesn't even try to go for a total reproduction of our world, allowing people to sometimes recognize themselves in a situation or a character, sometimes to simply enjoy the world building of a whole different animal society.

[@aniflowers1998]

Could you give me a quick explanation off what "homogenous" means? I tried looking it up on google, but the definition didn't really help me understand it

[@Elichan88]

@@aniflowers1998 It should mean that the main ethnicity represents a huge majority of the population. Specifically, Japan's Yamato people (what we call Japanese) represent now around 98% of the population. Chinese people and Korean people (usually we are talking about descendants, not recent immigrants) are around 0.5% each. And other minorities (from all over the world, including the Ainu people, the ethnic group native of the Hokkaido island) represent the remaining 1%. I think I have seen homogeneous used for that reason, but English is not my native language, so sorry for the misunderstanding :)

[@chiarouchka1507]

@@aniflowers1998 don't know if its a currently used term in english though

[@spicysquire3521]

This is the take I vibe with the most

[@caseywilde7931]

"Judy is hotter than Lola" You just earned a new sub

[@GGgentlemen]

You know it's a Beastars video when the first line is "Am I becoming a furry?"

[@evan4292]

Beastars is an anime that makes you say “I’m not a furry... *but...”*

[@boptodatop]

Honestly alot of people that were furries watched it at the start but when the people that weren't watched it that doesnt mean your instantly a Furry Theres a difference between enjoying themes and anthropomorphic animal shows And actually being a furry lol *though definitely some people already near the edge turned into furries*

[@dionysaur1747]

I have heard this exact joke so many times that it hurts

[@mammatin7209]

you had me until the rape and pedophilia part. NO just NO. its plain wrong, and there is no justifying that!

[@askatuproductions]

Beastars isn't justifying "murder" though. Legoshi may had a desire to rape/kill but he didn't do it at the end and those carnivores who do it are sent to jail.

[@oliviarose3787]

Thank you! I was really enjoying the video until he brought that up. You can't justify that because of instincts. BEASTARS didn't even justify Legoshi's instincts, so he really should have left that out of the video.

[@octoberviberations233]

Completely agree with you but. He’s kinda right too. Theirs no justifying pedophiles for what they did. But we should understand the pain they’ve gone through that causes them to do soemthing like this. No ones decides to do something just cause. Theirs a lot of factors. Not everyone wants to be proceived as bad, idk humans are complicated

[@octoberviberations233]

That was the point of his instincts tho. We aren’t supposed to justify his instincts. We just get to see him live life as someone scared because of what he was going/is thinking to do. Fighting his inner demon

[@blackcopycat4967]

October Viberations I was trying to say this without sounding like the bad guy

[@i_like_soup_]

almost all the comments are littoral essays

[@frostbitetheannunakiiceind6574]

Yep

[@GabrielBoorom]

Literal.

[@Tairafan]

3:47. Physically, beastars is more human. The hight variation is all over the place. Louis should be much taller, and Haru should be much shorter. Zootopia is more human in behavior, but they still have the same bones for the most part

[@boxeswithfoxes]

The original zootopia script which was called "wild times" actually was much alike to beastars.

[@yonatanhoresh2695]

Great video, but I felt like you made it sound as if Zootopia ignores the differences between different species when that isn't the case. Zootopia, mainly through Judy's training montage, carries the message that even when differences are inherent, one should use their advantages (Judy's size, her ability to bounce, etc.) to counter their disadvantages. The problems aren't caused by the inherent differences between species, but by how characters look at those differences. Nick is clever and foxy, but now instead of using it to confirm an existing stereotype, he uses it to help the police. Gideon Grey's problem wasn't that he was a predator, but that he viewed his inherent strength over herbivores as a way to bend them to his will. Just felt like discussing this but again, great video.

[@jonathantonner4263]

Neat take

[@renoloverxoxo]

I generally don't like when people use predator/prey relationships as a metaphor for racism. It's really clumsy when you look deeper.

[@mr.vansjohnson7469]

I also don't like it when the message is also used as an allegory for rape.

[@arthursemeghinigallo3336]

I think beastars used that as allegory to prejudice in general.

[@AdaminTranzit]

I mean it makes sense

[@landmerry_6742]

@@mr.vansjohnson7469 nevertheless there are a lot more paralleles to rape than racism. I just view the "uncontrollable, everyone has it" part as the author's hyperbole.

[@ConfettiiCereal]

I like how in beastars that both carnivores and herbivores have problems and discrimination. Like how haru could get killed any time.

[@tsiagian6610]

"Race is just a word, Age is just a number, Jail is just a room, And FBI is only 3 letters."

[@GabrielBoorom]

All spoken by someone who's never dealt with any of those things.

[@kareharpies]

@GabrielBoorom The commenter doesn't have an age or race?

[@GabrielBoorom]

@@kareharpies It's called pattern recognition. Who said it in this case is irrelevant.

[@kareharpies]

​@GabrielBoorom what?

[@MonsterUnderYourBed.]

I think I prefer Beastars because it's realistic and it shows that it's hard to change the way people look at you

[@Judyhopps-1iq]

GOOD FOR U i got zootopia on bluray and that all that matters dont care about your dam FUKING criticism and opinion im happy with it and have it with my mcu phase 1 2 3 and endgame National Treasure and the finest hours and more and there nothing u can do about it And also anime is trash and hollywood is better!!

[@MonsterUnderYourBed.]

@@Judyhopps-1iq okay but who tf are you and when did I ask you to scream in a comment

[@Judyhopps-1iq]

@@MonsterUnderYourBed.then dont shove criticisms in people faces im goin keep watching zoootpia and there nothing u can do about it!

[@MonsterUnderYourBed.]

@@Judyhopps-1iq I didn't say you can't watch and enjoy zootopia, I only said I have different preferences, chill out

[@Judyhopps-1iq]

@MonsterUnderYourBed. this is why youtube sucks nowadays people criticise and judge a movie that is not even that bad! it just wrong u know

[@dragonicmon7154]

I think the issue with interpreting Beastars and trying to find messages in all the details is that it's a fantasy story that follows it's own rules. Yes some things are familiar and can be compared to our world, however some are just the way they are in Beastars because or the rules of that world. Beastars isn't sending a message about our world, it's saying hey look at this fictional reality, how does life work here? The messages you get from Beastars is simply yours alone to take from your comparison of the fantastical world of Beastars to our own. Zootopia built a world and story to send a clear message. Beastars built a world, then set a story in that world to explore it.

[@coop4136]

Not everything is a metaphor dawg. Sometimes part of the setting is just part of the setting. Not everything in a fantasy is going to or needs to line up to something irl.

[@theparodymonster1]

Its like the meme where a teacher is explaining how the walls being blue is symbolism to explain how sad the character is or something. Legoshis "do i love her or do i want to eat her?" conflict most likely symbolises tgat he is a wolf and haru is a rabbit and typically wolves kill and eat animals such as rabbits. It doesnt have to be deeper than this, it works perfectly fine seen as that imo

[@randommemer1345]

No all is metaphor, even if not meant to be. It’s too fun to make things into metaphors.

[@jeneiffler7606]

And not everything is literal.

[@greasepan1]

@@randommemer1345 thats just generating misunderstandings and overthinking lol

[@randommemer1345]

@@greasepan1 Excactly, hehehehe CHAOS IS POWER!

[@greed0599]

I dont think the 'instinct to eat your lover' is supposed to be directly analagous to any human condition. Its just a general message on harmful urges and is a way to justify the discrimination against certain in world groups.

[@42Mrgreenman]

I think it's the more generalized condition of dependence. How much do you take from others versus what you create yourself...from sluts and pervs, to addicts, workaholics, and adrenaline junkies, that tightrope walk between risk and reward, conformity and individuality always makes for the best stories...

[@zoinksscoop20yearsago68]

"pedophiles want to change" **Maps entered the chat**

[@frostbitetheannunakiiceind6574]

Some not all

[@mackenziebennett6949]

I disagree on your comparison between killer instinct and the 'urge to rape.' Yes, I have read the pinned comment. My biggest issue is that it is ALWAYS a choice to rape someone, even if that person is dealing with different internal and external issues. Killer instinct is portrayed in the show as something you physically cannot control. It can happen at any time and it can physically force you to hurt someone, even if you desperately don't want to. Raping someone is a choice you make. Even if you make that choice while extremely depressed, or suicidal, or while dealing with substance addiction, you still made a choice. The person you raped either did not give consent in the first place, or revoked consent at some point, and you actively ignored that and took advantage of the person. It doesn't matter what the perpetrator was going through. They still actively chose to rape someone. While I certainly agree that that person deserves help and treatment and that we can feel sympathy for what they were dealing with separately, I don't agree that we should feel sympathy for them surrounding their choice to rape someone. That is harmful. Furthermore, rape isn't about sex. It's about power. I know people who are hypersexual and have to deal with a really, really intense sex drive. At no point does this compel them to rape people, even if being hypersexual is frustrating and distressing to them at times.

[@D_McGeezacks]

Just because you like charming, compelling stories that happen to feature anthro characters, that does not make you a furry ....is what I tell myself

[@admcleo]

You're going to have a lot of fun as more Beastars characters get revealed.

[@honeyspice4014]

People are always going to think “you are a furry” if you like a movie or book that has animal/human mixes. 🤦‍♀️

[@wormlord27]

Yeah, then make fun of furries for liking the same show, furries have done nothing wrong I don’t understand why their so hated

[@dustiew.7162]

@@wormlord27 I think the reason why furries are hated a lot is because of people joking about furries being weird to be funny, I have a feeling many people found the jokes to be serious and started coming up with all of these things about them being disgusting diaper wearing adult children, being pedophiles, and being a community only about being sexually active, they might not be focusing on both the good and bad sides and only cherry-pick data to justify their dislike of furries, (example: Karens and vaccines).

[@Crim_5009]

Dustie W. I think its also because some people took the jokes as serious and started spreading lies instead of jokes.

[@DementedGodsend]

I disagree with one thing you said. Drug addiction hurts the person and everyone around them. It destroys families, it causes crimes and can absolutely result in murder. So I think that part of the metaphor still stands.

[@thewingedcheetahwolf2615]

His name is Louis. Netflix did the subtitles wrong. RIP

[@classicco-op5580]

Im wrong, whoops

[@victoriavenegas7981]

Louis is rouis in Japanese

[@kross_draws]

Victoria Venegas isn’t that just an “engrish” translation?

[@fairybebbiesuwu366]

It’s more pronounced like Rui or 루이 actually not Louis

[@pgakt]

The mangaka intended for him to be named are a king called Louis, so calling him “Roui” is somewhat offensive

[@JPLangley_]

After finishing and enjoying all three, I’m still not becoming a furry. Thanks for trying though, Internet.

[@emmytweetie2177]

Damn it! But this was supposed to be a flawless plan! All that money and preparation, just for the conversions not to work. Shucks.

[@braanch]

UwU it spreads

[@alex-654]

"Beastars is for adults" 13 year old me: *sweats*

[@xrosso6515]

Its normal🤣,taste things apart ,the funny part Is that grow up the people sometimes want try new things or simply don't relegate himself to the "childish One"so totally normal

[@chiarouchka1507]

its more like "adult" themed than "for" adults

[@djterry1218]

Same (not my user it’s my great nanas)

[@angel-nv7jk]

In Roman times that would be considered an adult so technically you're fine lol

[@yesmboy_4539]

*laughs in 11 yo tryna watch a furry film on Netflix

[@NixiShavalMusic]

Me: vibing on the same level as this guy Reviewer: says roius Me: *READY TO KILL*

[@FranciscoJG]

What bugs me in Zootopia is the fact the all animals are mammals only.

[@トプ飯]

As the story progresses, other animals will also appear.

[@bananajam6393]

I don’t think everything has to be an metaphor and have a meaning, I think that it could just be for entertainment too. Like the thing with Legoshi having to battle his instincts to be with Haru. I personally just think that concept is very interesting and entertaining because you see the complications of it, I personally didn’t see any deeper meaning with it. But this whole video was very very interesting and I loved it a lot! You brought up very good points and did a good job comparing them! Also personally Beastars > Zootopia

[@RomeroRomeral]

I also like both, and if I have to choose, I'm keeping Beastars. Sometimes there's things you absolutely can't and won't change, and it's important to have stories that deal with that as well.

[@micaiahflores1592]

dude real talk when young nick got muzzled that got me like that was some seriously dark shit, even still when i re watch it terrifying...

[@chaeviviana]

no bc u comparing rapists to a literal wolf having urges to eat a rabbit is so dumb…. sometimes theres no metaphor. it’s just there.

[@QuestionDeca]

"Anyone Can Be Anything", it's a statement that I think people... misinterpret. A good, similar, example is "Anyone Can Cook." from Ratatouille, where in the Critic states both possible meanings, that anyone can learn to be a 5 star chef (not true, and he takes great delight in pointing that out), and then later that a great cook can come from anywhere, any walk of life, in example Remy the Rat, who had and became a 5 star chef, who is also a common rat. "Anyone can be anything", in an inspirational reading, means that anyone can aspire and succeed at their goals, a vole can become head of an international bank, or a giraffe a great portrait painter... but in a pessimistic/cautionary reading, it means that a mouse can be a serial killer and a tigress a homeless hooker. IN the movie, Judy, and later Nick, are examples of the inspirational meaning, they became cops, heroes, but in a cautionary sense, Bellwether is the perfect example of a harmless ewe being a murderous bio-terrorist.

[@nategraham1487]

I personally prefer Beastars but I agree with all of your points in this video. Despite the fact that I enjoy all the different views on each topic from Beastars' side characters, and that I think the concept of beastars is more than a simple allegory for race, class or gender, the biggest reason I like Beastars more is the main character, Legoshi. I also like an inspiring story but I find Beastars to be more inspiring because of its realistic take. Legoshi is a character with deep flaws that he takes steps to fix, rather than someone trying to achieve a dream. This gives Beastars a stronger theme of self-improvment (in my opinion) than zootopia because Legoshi actually makes himself a better person rather than a more successful person. idk, think what you want

[@shanicejackson7358]

I will have to admit I liked both. Can't wait for Season 2 of Beastars

[@isaacjohnson8796]

Although I agree with your video, I feel that beastars' allegory for racism isn't nearly as strong as zootopia's. The thing about racism is that its nonsensical, people try to justify Jim crow laws, lynching, and segregation by claiming X race is superior or the world would be better off without X race. But the problem is, one race can do just as much as the other. There's no reason why someone should elevate one race over another. The problem with racism in beastars is that there are reasons to segregate animals and there are reasons to believe one type of animal is superior to another. The animals in beastars have instincts, and most predators, when given the chance, would kill weaker animals. When you can make an argument for separating two types of animals or heck even argue herbivores would be better off if they killed all the carnivores, than I think your allegory for racism fails. You shouldn't be able to argue that one race is better than another, or argue that one race is better off without the other. Zootopia's allegory for racism is leagues stronger. For one, the justification for racism is that predators used to be aggressive. This means that because the animals aren't acting on any sort of instinct anymore, there's no reason to segregate them, but you can see where the discrimination lies. Its much harder to argue that predators should be removed from society in zootopia because they don't actively harm the people they interact with. However, like beastars there is an argument that certain animals are better at certain jobs due to their physique or inherent strength/size so discrimination can be justified in these instances. Despite this one of zootopia's conflict is whether a bunny could be a police officer, and by the end of the movie we learn they can. Meaning even with the internet disadvantages some animals have, there is still no justifiable reason for discrimination. To clarify as I wrap up here, beastars as an allegory for other types of discrimination is probably fine (I say probably because I haven't thought of other types of discrimination as critically as racism), I just don't think its message towards racism is strong. Now I haven't watched either pieces of media so I could be talking out my ass. This is just what I've gathered from this video.

[@noodlegumm_]

I've never agreed with a comment more.

[@mussesnoeck178]

For not watching the show you're pretty spot on :)

[@christopherauzenne5023]

I honestly feel beastars isn’t even an allegory for racism but more for sex/relationships. Like in Japan there are the term carnivore and herbivore that basically mean how you act (more aggressive/active or more sensitive/less active) and the story is about primal urges I just feel that with how recent zootopia was made we assume to stories about racism

[@isaacjohnson8796]

@@christopherauzenne5023 sure, that's probably a fair assessment but I don't see what it has to do with my point. The video is about "discrimination" and comparing two pieces of media which handle the topic similarly. Because, its just "discrimination" i wanted to cover a specific form of discrimination that i felt beastars didn't handle well compared to zootopia.

[@jawdatmarcelle1]

@@christopherauzenne5023 I have to agree with u, tho there is discrimination in beastars, but that is not the importance of the story since in the world of beastars, there are reasons why herbivores are scared of carnivores. The metaphor for beastars is something sex related going on in Japan but I'm not in that country so I dont understand what's happening. In the end, using beastars to talk about discrimination usually is pointless due to it being a very good reason they have it, not to say people are trying to fight against it, specially later in the manga

[@Sevness]

I feel like both are very very very important media. Zootpia condenses it into a very neat, easy to digest, and uplifting story. Where Beastars is a more complex story, more grounded and realist in its approach, something Zootopia scraped the surface of but didn't delve too deep into. Both actually deal a LOT with instinct and nature, the fear there between the two classes. A lot of Zootopia very well could be taking place in the Beastars world, but we never see or hear about it because as a children's media, we don't hear about it. The original Zootopia story was also much more closer to Beastars, where the predators, so feared for possibly being a risk to "prey" life, were collared, any aggression, any intense rise in blood pressure, and they were shocked, punished and conditioned to fear being around the herbivores, just for the peace of mind and safety of herbivores. Much the same happens in Beastars; though granted it requires reading the Manga to see, since the start of the story is contained in the School, but soon leaves the school behind to lead to a larger story where predators even so much as raising their voice to a prey/herbivore species are treated as a crime, one worthy of arrest. Zootopia is basically a Utopia on the surface, a Utopia Judy blindly believes and trusts in, but soon sees the bias, the speciesism, the way that all predators are treated as potential criminals based on their species. Foxes are a shifty sly liar that can't ever be trusted, and bunnies are fragile soft stuffed animals incapable of doing anything serious. Judy is there due to a show, not treated at all in any way resectable, her being part of a major city cop force was just a show, a publicity stunt pushed by the Mayor to seem friendly and encouraging to the herbivores in the city to use later as something to throw out in order to stay in the position of Mayor once election time came around. Being a lion, he is treated as more noble and honorable, brave and trustworthy, just like we see Lions today, calling people Lionhearted, praised for all sorts of things, even some African tribes considering it a right of passage to become an adult to touch/tug a lions tail as a show of bravery and honor. We see the same thing in Beastars, the mayor had his claws removed, had his teeth removed to seem more personable and trustworthy, but cared more about his image and getting reelected than the actual protection of his citizens. In Zootopia, they don't even give two shits about the otter who is missing, there are biases and speciesism there as well, he wasn't deemed worth the resources to find by the ZPD, just like Judy was a token hire to seem inclusive and progressive but ultimately was seen just as useless and worthless of time or trust as they see the missing otter. The only real difference is Zootopia keeps it to the surface, we see next to nothing of the underworld of the city, just the polished facade that exists of Carnivore and Herbivore species living in harmony. The closest we get is finding Mr. Big, and them nearly dying, them finding out about the Nighthowler being sold on the market, and the plot to make the Carnivores look savage as if they are reverting back to their savage, predatory ways, with the implication they have gone back to also eating the prey/herbivore/smaller species. Beastars also deals with that, the fact society seems so polished and pure, predator/carnivore species living in harmony with the prey/herbivore species, but in it, we explore more of that dark underworld Zootopia can't show, the black market, the back alley, the truth of what keeps the city they live in running. Zootopia has murder, it has everything real-world cities have, but with added primal desires and needs of the animals there. We just never see it because it's a movie meant for kids, which is why I see the two franchises, Zootopia and Beastars, as more intertwined than anything, despite being worlds apart.

[@cara_macchi]

"i wont do something like "aNd tHats wHy zOotOpIa is beTtEr tHan BeAsTar" "zootopiaisbetterdont@me-"

[@nicholasrodinos4701]

Spoilers: There's a weird thing. I read the manga and we learn from Jack's special history class that the carnivores didn't always have the meat addiction thing. Carnivores originally wanted to protect herbivores, and then something caused them to go nuts. Also Yafya might know something about it, considering his scene with the whale. Just read the manga. I have no idea how to explain this.

[@nicholasrodinos4701]

@Mayo Lane We know that they already leave out certain aspects of the history when they teach it generally. But even then, why would the carnivores' first instinct be to protect? The original carnivores couldn't have known that eating meat would provide them strength until they ate one of their own, which how did that happen (I re-read 154 sorry for my mistake), so how did they discover that? Plus the skinnier the carnivores got the more civilized they became over time, so how come the meat addiction thing seems stronger now? There might be some sugarcoating, but why have it be only dogs (we know that dogs are designed to not be as effected by negative emotions) in that class. Also we know that the two didn't always interact. I'm not saying that the carnivores wouldn't be aggressive and meat addicted but it seems strange that a group who seem strangely protective of herbivores, would just get a terrifying hunger towards people they protected.

[@nicholasrodinos4701]

@Mayo Lane But what evidence do you have for that? I won't deny it's possible that the carnivores did exactly what you're talking about, but even then why would they let the society they created fall apart like that? We know that the herbivores took the war more seriously (potentially justifiably). But how would the society turn into that?

[@АлексейОсипов-э9ц]

Here's the main difference: if you humanise zootopia characters, but make carnivores black people and herbivores white people, nothing else will change in the narrative or inner message.

[@sofiaalejandra207]

In zootopia, the carnivores used to be the "oppressors" since they were the hunters, similar to how slavery and racial segregation came mainly from whites against blacks, so to some extent, we could argue the opposite would work as well.

[@carodame9419]

Am i missing something? Carnivores were often portrait as people in power while hebivores lile Judy and the sheeplady were in a disadvantage because of their size. Where does a white person have to struggle to clime the career latter in a mostly black police school?

[@sofiaalejandra207]

@@carodame9419 I remember an interview on Disney in which they brought that up, that the carnivores were the ones "in power" in the past. At the same time, they were also the minority in the present (as stated multiple times in the movie) and they were the ones seen as vandals. According to the creators, it was to show any type of discrimination was wrong, as neither carnivores or herbivores fit the black and white analogy 100%.

[@emmytweetie2177]

@@carodame9419 Carnivores are minorites in the present, though. Vastly outnumbered. And remember that Nick was bullied as a kid. Judy's fox repellent isn't fear of the privileged, it's a fear of those who do not harm.

[@ridhosamudro2199]

Woah, did you say black people have the inherent instinct to hunt down and consume white people? You can't equate predation to racism man, that's missing the point.

[@ericjacobson3305]

It's Louis not Rouis. (Dang it Netflix)

[@deltafox757]

exactly my thoughts.

[@lynxiiee]

Rouis is the Japanese spelling, while Louis is the English spelling. I think it has something to do with pronunciation of certain letters being difficult or something? I can't remember off the top of my head

[@BJ-no2oe]

@@lynxiiee Japanese doesn't have a specific L or R sound, and the closest thing to those sounds is kinda like a mixture of an R and an L. Because of that, Louis's name can technically be translated as either Louis ot Rouis, though the latter is obviously incorrect. Its also the reason why a lot of Japanese people struggle with pronouncing Rs and Ls when they learn English.

[@Mai57]

Since I feel like being *that* annoying butt nugget... If you take the katakana written version of his name, ルイ, and write it in romaji, then it's Rui. So... I wasn't really bothered by Netlix's "mistake"... It felt like they couldn't decide if it should be "Rui" or "Louis" and just kinda combined them lol

[@braanch]

Japanese doesn’t have a L sound and R is the closest letter to it

[@mysticalkeyblade759]

I’m a male and I don’t want to rape or do drugs of any kind. I never have had any thoughts nor instinct on raping someone. Rape is fucked up

[@morgansholes]

i had been looking for a video for a while that compared and discussed the differences/similarities of zootopia and beastars for a while. Thank you so much, this was exactly what i was looking for and you summed it up beautifully!

[@RaskaTheFurry]

personally... Beastars is better. The world feels a tiny bit more detailed and realistic. Also, it asks more questions imo. And I think... more humanoid ... can be a con. they are part animals, if they have very little animalistic features... why arent they just people, right ? Also... Legosi isnt Just a grey wolf... but thats spoiler

[@chiarouchka1507]

yeah maybe don't spoil people like that bruv just modify that part of the comment (i already knew cuz ive read the chapters past that point but like please thats lame just change your comment please)

[@minniebabi1555]

The pfp is a no

[@stick3rbatz]

Ok as someome who hasn't/can't read the manga, thanks for the spoiler dude. I really fucking appreciate it.

[@Piccolospm]

As a person once said, “if zootopia lightly touches on it, Beastars completely f****** floors it.”

[@arthursemeghinigallo3336]

What this mean?

[@sofialuna6210]

Honestly, I feel like the predator-herbivore part of Legoshi and Haru's relationship has to do with the complete commitment to the world-building, which is not very common in the western way of telling a story. I feel like our way of telling a story is to come up with an idea, a point, establish a premise that suits it, and then leave out all the things that don't really help you reach that goal. In contrast, it would appear to me that mangas work a different way, or at least Beastars does. It's almost like they create characters, put them in situations, and then let them roam free. You establish a base, and then let the story evolve without a clear end point. It makes the story go into unintended consequences, sure. But it also feels more real. It feels as you are actually watching a person going through their life and struggles in a pretty human -- and sometimes non-sensical -- way. In the case of Beastars, you established a world with carnivores and herbivores, and want to see how a relationship could blossom between members of both groups. You think how it could work within the rules you've already created, and then you go: "You know what, I think the carnivore would want to eat the other" and so it's included and explored.

[@_JUSTWoW_]

The thing that got me the most in Beaststars was when the mayor spoke about having plastic surgery to make himself approachable and loving in order to get the vote, basically saying no one would vote for a vicious lion with sharp fangs

[@pip-tizzle8597]

I loved zootopia when I was younger and I remember sitting at my sketchbook and thinking of how I just wanted to draw a humanoid bunny.... Yeahhh....I'm a furry.

[@disky1784]

Rouis Because that's definitely a real name that exists and isn't just a translation error.

[@braanch]

In Japanese L doesn’t exist

[@tvbugss]

when translating a name like louis in to japanese it would be pronounced like rouis because the "l" sound in english doesn't exist in japanese, they use something similar to our "r". we do this all the time in english with foreign names, that's not a translation error that's just how you translate it ^^ (sorry if this came off as rude! im just a linguistics nerd!!)

[@lupusincidus]

Yeah, Japanese people can't really pronounce the letter L without great difficulty and it doesn't exist in their language. Thus, names beginning with or containing L become Rs. If you watch the anime in the original Japanese it is pronounced as Rouis, not Louis. Same goes for One Piece. Luffy's canon name IS Luffy but it is pronounced as Ruffy throughout the anime

[@vinch3]

@@lupusincidus So by that logic shouldn't the canon name be "Louis" even if pronounced "Rouis". And you know, that Louis is actually a name that exist. Edit: Just found a scan of the manga and the name used is indeed "Louis" dunno why Netflix decided to go with Rouis :/

[@lupusincidus]

@@vinch3 Yeah, you're absolutely right, the canon name IS Louis because the fact is the author, despite not being able to actually pronounce the name (😂) decided that that was the name. I have noticed though that Netflix are sometimes inconsistent with subs. Like I can't speak to the dub because I watched the sub, but subs even say Rouis and I do find that odd considering in their sub of Attack On Titan Levi is still Levi despite some pronunciation difficulties on that. I think sometimes it's a mistake, sometimes they can't make their mind up, who knows.

[@riderwolfseeker5066]

Zootopia vs Beastars = Chad Nick Wilde vs SIMP Legoshi

[@jetuwu8960]

Rider Wolf Seeker stfu

[@riderwolfseeker5066]

@@jetuwu8960 And why should I do that?

[@selcouthnosvkota6214]

Chad haru.....

[@artbysarf]

this is such a bad take in the manga Haru sees Legosi’s dick and confirms it’s big while Nick Wilde is like 3 feet tall

[@jetuwu8960]

Rider Wolf Seeker how is he a simp lmao

[@rodrigomateodelgadodelacru8154]

the comparassion between carnivours and sexual desires is actually touched on in the manga

[@baasparkopenings851]

I think a better way to phrase your point about rapists/pedophiles is that there are people with those urges who do not necessarily act out on them. Humans are rarely compromised to the point where we aren't in control of our actions unless we do something really fucked up to our bodies (alcohol, drugs - no hate to people who do those, but they lower the natural inhibition humans have by default) which seemed not to be the case with legoshi. I realize mental illness can factor into inhibition as well, but as someone with mental illness and a developmental disorder I feel like legoshi's first meeting with haru isnt comparable to humans, as you said. Even though he actually physically assaulted her, I would compare his actions more to something like tourette's or intrusive thoughts, not rape or pedophilia. Because there are definitely people with those urges/thoughts who hate having them, although they're usually considered intrusive thoughts rather than an attraction at that point. But I don't consider people who don't act on those urges and have no interest in acting out on those interest to be pedos/rapists. (and by "not acting on those urges" I dont mean the no-contact "MAP" positivity shit on twitter, I mean not normalizing it but being allowed to talk about the feelings to vent. Like, when i'm depressed, i dont say "omg im so depressed thats so sexy

[@aquaz_1895]

I enjoyed the review, it was pretty well written and fun to watch. However, if you’ll allow me to toss my opinion in the mix, there were many times where I have to disagree with you. One thing that I think you undermine is the ability to make you actually think and put your own reasons behind the metaphors. With zootopia (don’t get me wrong, I’ve watched it like 15 times) it shoves everything in your face and straight up tells you what is good and what isn’t, it is the opposite of subtle with a lot of its metaphors. Not to mention how muddy it gets about when you are supposed to think about these characters as anthro animals and when it’s shoving its morals on human discrimination in your face. It kinda feels shoehorned in during a lot of these scenes and messes with the flow/focus of the movie, especially towards the end. However, with beastars the morals flow and are directly related to the plot. The usage of predators having an instinct to want to eat carnivores is used in so many ways that go along with the focus. My first two watch throughs I focused on the direct story without ever having to directly think about how things are related to humans, only on my third did I look at it from a metaphorical standpoint. Beastars allows you to do this because it doesn’t shove anything in your face and is actually deep when you have time to think about it. The main idea of the show( the usage of predator vs prey) is exclusive to beastars and isn’t really directly related to anything in real life. It allows you to view it and think about it how you want which is much more interesting and enjoyable in my opinion. I understand how you love the motivational story of Judy and stuff, however I’ve seen that all before and what beastars does is so different which left me thinking about it since it came out. If anything, Beastars makes me think on how everything isn’t always black and white which is something I knew but never looked into the way that beastars made me. Congratulations, you made it to the end of my long ass rant.

[@Sylpharts]

Beastars tackles these difficult subjects better than any live-action series I've ever watched...it just feels realistic, unadulterated, unbiased and refreshing.

[@IkesDaddelbox]

I mean, as a kid I loved to watch the Disney afternoon programm on television. Talespin, DuckTales, Darkwing Duck, the Gummi Bears, all that good stuff. Yes, since my childhood I love cartoons with animals. And many others do too, because we just can identify with them. No one questioned it back in the day. If that makes you a furry these days...yes, okay, I'm a furry. And I'm not ashamed to say it.

[@cookiecat8140]

T-T Rouis is wrong, i hate how Netflix changed the name of a main character. its Louis btw, states so in chapters in the manga that i have fully read through.

[@hervygervy8530]

In Japanese it's written "ルイ," which would be romanized as "Rui." It's pronounced "roo-ee." There is no "L" sound in Japanese, so it's replaced with "R." It's meant to be the name "Louis," but in order to say or write it in Japanese, it would have to be ルイ, or Rui. Does this make sense?

[@jugemujugemugokonosurikire4735]

@@hervygervy8530 Definately. I finally found someone who had read up on the japanese pronunciation

[@haidalover]

Beastars: for adults Gacha kids: This is good. I recommend it to other kids.

[@noxturne16]

“Zootopia is for kids and Beastars is for adults” Me and the the other kids who watched Beastars: 0-0 Also in no way can you compare carnivores and rapists and drug addicts because of Freud’s theory, many people don’t even agree with him. Zootopia is just to show how humans act, while Beastars is how animals act but they have more of a conscience that tells them right from wrong but I’m they end they submit to their instincts. This is why Beastars is so much more interesting and characters evolve. I don’t like how you Haru, who is basically a child, to Judy who is an adult saying Haru is just known for her body when she does have a personality and her flaws that make her interesting, she works through those flaws. The video was kind of a mess in my eyes and I think you took you were biased without fully understanding Beastars

[@themax6218]

I highly recommend watching Aggretsuko. It’s like the office but with anthropomorphic animals.

[@RoninDreamer]

Ok everyone, hear me out for a second. I connected and identified with Beastars because I think it illustrates some of the experiences I have and those that I have heard others have had as psychopaths. Everything from high functioning to the anti-social. If you read up on psychopathy and they way we see the world and how we can be very beneficial or very horrible to society. Just saying.

[@crypticvoid372]

This was an amazing video that I’ve a,ways wanted to discuss with people about the deeper meaning of both of these animations, but everyone just calls me a furry and I never get a chance to explain myself

[@SomeRedDame]

I really appreciate you not shying away from saying everything from 10:56 onward, particularly being (in MY opinion) _brave_ enough to say "Because as much as everyone loves to demonize drug addicts and _especially_ rapists and act like they are in the position that they are in is _completely_ of their own volution- It's important to keep in mind that that ISN'T always the case. And more likely than not, they WISH that they didn't have those urges. Yes, EVEN rapists, even pedophiles are almost certainly accutely aware that their urges are NOT acceptable AND _WANT TO CHANGE_ and[but] since they have absolutely NO chance of being able to openly talk about those urges in efforts to make improvements in themselves, I think that having a fictional characters who can represent these people in a sympathetic manner is a good thing. " Like, this. All of this. And nowhere are you saying ALL of these persons ARE always accutely aware of or regret their desires and actions but the fact you put forth that more self aware predator types exists means the world to me. I've been in some really fucking complicated and painful situations, ones I don't want to go into in this public of a forum (not that I don't want to discuss it, I'm happy to, as painful as it is, but it's impossible to have an open dialogue with people who are still going through their trauamas and may be projecting too narrow of a scope on a broad subject) ANYWAY, just wanted to say, thank you for even just saying this, for acknowledging it. I've not read any comments yet as I first had to get THIS stuff written out first and parsing it all has been a labor intensive effort all its own, but I sincerely hope you don't get shit for stating what you did just because people take umbrage with it. (Not that said umbrage isn't warranted given where the angry person is coming from at their moment in life, just saying) I.. don't know where else I'm going with this and it's 2am.. uh, good vid and commentary and thank you for sharing these creations.

[@Krossxc]

This is exactly the interpretation I hoped people would have of that section. I have gotten a lot of shit for that part but I understand why. I think I could have done a better job making it clear what my stance was. Stuff like doubling down on the "not all" point, etc

[@ffiloi]

This video completes me, It's done so well and explains everything so good, all tho there might've been things you missed, It's still very well done. Thank you