Kwasi Kwarteng's Side of The Disastrous Mini-budget

Why did the Tory Party choose to make Liz Truss and Boris Johnson prime minister? How does it feel to be the second shortest-serving chancellor in post-war history? What was the true thinking behind the disastrous Truss-Kwarteng mini-budget?
Rory and Alastair speak to Kwasi Kwarteng, former Chancellor of the Exchequer, about the future of the Tory Party, New Labour's conservatism, Rishi Sunak, Rwanda, Brexit, Liz Truss, diversity in politics, the British Empire, and much, much more.
00:00 Intro
04:50 Would you pass the Eton entry exam today?
06:36 Parental heritage and upbringing
11:25 In simple terms what was good and bad about the British Empire
13:29 Why has the British Empire taken such a hold on the right wing psyche
19:33 Rory and Kwasi weren't popular at Eton
21:05 What are the pros of Liz Truss?
23:58 How Boris Johnson's premiership started good but lost its way
28:18 Why did you want a career in politics?
33:08 Would you give advice to Rachel Reeves?
36:32 Thoughts on Keir Starmer going more left and now being more right
40:41 Why there has to be an element of populism in the Conservative Party
41:46 Talk us through ethnicity in British Politics
45:23 Do you think the Rwanda plan is working?
46:25 Net Zero climate goals and how can we financially make it
49:46 Importance of not being so reliant on China
51:15 Rory and Kwasi entered parliament at the same time but had different experiences, one is a romantic and the other a realist
1:00:06 What was a bigger mistake, backing Liz Truss or backing Boris Johnson?
1:00:55 Did you not have an operation to become Prime Minister?
1:02:45 Role as Chancellor - the pace was absurd and it moved 150 mph
1:22:14 Why didn't you support Rishi Sunak?
1:23:48 Can you see a way that Labour won't win at the next General Election?
1:30:30 Who are the historians that have impacted you?
1:36:54 Do you believe in virtue?
1:38:23 Outro
1:39:27 Debrief

[@dddddbbb]

A great example of one of those politicians that sees it all as a game.

[@MyMongo100]

Yes, he came across as pretty arrogant

[@MayorMcC666]

so someone like you?

[@heyhonpuds]

Yes that famous politician dddddbbb. Just like him

[@dddddbbb]

@@heyhonpuds And so it was my life was diverted from that point onwards to become a politician. But not just any politician, the greatest game player of all time!

[@PermaBear-bi9jk]

Campbell included, still not an ounce of remorse or guilt. Just carries on trying to accumulate as much money as possible…

[@MrTomwazere]

Fascinating interview. Two things: 1. Kwasi seems like a really really intelligent and nice person. 2. Kwasi sounded like he didn’t give a damn about anything. He made it sound like a big game.

[@terminallybill7073]

Nice? He shorted the pound for his rich buddies, he deserves prison. Absolute scumbag.

[@russodoni5331]

It is all a big game. For all his and Truss' pretence of being radical political disruptors, their entire mini-budget was really just 'let's do neoliberalism, but even more'; it wasn't actually a huge set of changes and absolutely wasn't some serious attempt to shift the foundations of the economic order. He's really just the epitome of the Blair/Cameron neoliberal consensus politician, who operates in such a very small window of possible moves (low tax, minimal state spending, privatize everything) that politics is just a distracting reality TV show with very little positive impact on anything. Politics in this world view is simply a matter of playing out party games and making enough noise to get people to look at you, with no real program for changing or improving anything. The reason the Tories have basically nothing to show for 14 years in power is because their entire philosophy of government is to do nothing.

[@Red1Green2Blue3]

And that's why he's more dangerous than the likes of Suella. It's easy to oppose people you find distasteful

[@FranzBieberkopf]

A textbook example of the difference between education and intelligence

[@chrisspencer6502]

Yes it’s the accents don’t be taking in. He’s making about as much sense as a manic crack addict

[@nicka3697]

I was surprised how much I liked Kwarti while being horrified at his view of politics as a game where positioning wins over substance.

[@DrakenKorin140]

It is a bit depressing to hear, but looking at all the infighting in the UK and US. It makes a degree of sense if longer term prosperity is the goal

[@kwabenaakuamoa9897]

He’s a realist and a pragmatist

[@plasticsstrings]

Charisma is the killer of the people

[@chortler]

Agree. Really awful man.

[@curingd]

Precisely. I get the impression that everything is an intellectual game to him with no real world consequence (which he has been mostly shielded from).

[@midnightwolfee2128]

A fabulous example of how intellect without emotional IQ can be so dangerous.

[@oldschool3670]

I only see pseudo intellect

[@paulwalker797]

There is no intellect. Just a tired rehash of old failed ideas. An intellect learns from failure rather than repeating failure in the hope that things will turn out different.

[@Newerasamearea]

​@oldschool3670 the guy was a kings scholar and phd'd at Cambridge. Also smashed his exams at eton. EQ, Leadership, common sense maybe but tough to doubt his intellect.

[@paulwalker797]

@@Newerasamearea You don't have to be an 'intellectual' to pass an exam. You only need application under given circumstances. Many super-smart people are crap at exams and tests and many dumb people have passed endless exams...I know, I saw it firsthand when I spent 25 years teaching. Don't respect someone's background or training, respect what they do.

[@paulwalker797]

@@Newerasamearea As a teacher of 25 years I can assure you that you don't have to be an 'intellectual' to pass upwards through a system of testing. Plenty of the smartest, most creative people struggle with testing and the examination system while their below par classmates sail through. We have enough evidence in the current conservative party of 'well educated' fools destroying the country.

[@knightsnight5929]

Kamikaze Kwarteng! What a guy! Did more damage to the UK economy in the least amount of time than anyone before! Quite an achievement!

[@jagchahal1393]

Liz helped

[@NomadLovesUs]

That was more Liz Truss lmao

[@andrewjohnston9115]

Probably not actually.

[@bou7990]

Pretty sure it was a team effort

[@ravenofra1114]

Very likable though

[@Xesgoodness]

So grateful for Rory. I’m incredibly thankful for pausing the conversation and breaking down what’s been discussed in layman’s terms. Incredibly. Pls keep it up!

[@xavierhucklenbruch1798]

It's good to hear from somebody I do not agree with at all

[@Jablicek]

Absolutely. Especially when they're chasismatic and have a way with words. They're the ones to really look out for.

[@lamarnolan6727]

We need more guests who bring out this antagonistic side of Rory😂

[@samuelmelton8353]

'You spaffed tens of billions' Kwasi: AHAHHHAHHAHA 🤣

[@samuelmelton8353]

Rory: 😬

[@rigs7748]

It's really not an overstatement when it is said that it is all a big joke to these people. This being just another in the long list of blatant confirmations. Awful.

[@samuelmelton8353]

@@daves301 For all of it that went to average people, it was probably cancelled out by the damage to our economy they inflicted.

[@chadvader974]

whats the timestamp please?

[@janethornton3834]

God and these people were in power...a big game and doesn't impact their own finances but the idiots like me who work for s living

[@m00plank90]

He’s financially comfortable, so it’s all a game. He has no real existential skin in the game. Win some/lose some/move on. While millions suffer for his part. The glibness about it is concerning.

[@yoginid672]

All of this.

[@NessieAndrew]

Probably one of the best interviews you've done.

[@kicorse]

I do appreciate his honesty, which Campbell lacks when discussing Iraq, for example. At the same time he comes across as the opposite of a footballer still having nightmares about a missed penalty from two years ago. His mistakes have had devastating consequences for many people, but to him he just lost a game. Probably the best attitude for his own mental health, but politicians should really appreciate the gravity of the decisions they're making.

[@zt2019]

Very good point

[@MyFluXx]

Very insightful, I was thinking the same thing but could not articulate the thought!

[@jakestevenson6388]

Really interesting to compare him to people like Theresa May. For her, as much as she did terrible things in power, there was a sense of public service. For Kwasi, it's all about getting into power and holding it. There's a terrifying lack of empathy here.

[@acheampongkf]

He pronounces his name incorrectly. Its pronounced Kwehsi (its an A but quickly overtaken by an E sound and its an S, not a Z)

[@maxhaughton1964]

It would surprise me if Theresa May did better than him on some kind of empathy test. She's more sympathetic but he's probably a better read of a person and smarter (there being a massive difference between "IQ" and "EQ" isn't particularly useful IME - it's just personality differences).

[@onenote6619]

Kwarteng made one serious mistake. He listened to Liz Truss and ignored everyone who knows anything about economics. But if you can make that mistake, you can make any mistake.

[@0_________________]

he was desperate for power even he knew he made a mistake.

[@TheYoungVeganUK]

I didn't realise how much I had wanted him to explain himself and his reasoning

[@davidfoote9088]

His openness to be a part of, and to welcome, popular politics convinces me that he will not be missed from parliament. Why does he think that so many of the electorate admire being told lies and half truths in a bid to capture their votes. Such arrogance to believe that we are not intelligent enough to interpret an honest debate. I agree with Alastair, such populism has had its day

[@accountnamewithheld]

Why do you think Reform polls so well? They are flat out honest

[@StopTheRot]

@@accountnamewithheldI agree. They are Nazi sympathisers and - while not quite happy to admit it - they don’t deny it either. People respect that they haven’t sacked Gribbin because it shows they are willing to stand by their opinions. Their opinions aren’t for me though. Hell no.

[@niyiawe8804]

​@accountnamewithheld and they will shaft you properly cos they keep saying whay you wanna hear😅😅

[@largesatsuma]

I loved Rory’s reaction when Kwasi said he thought Boris would be reigned in 😂

[@acheampongkf]

He pronounces his name incorrectly. Its pronounced Kwehsi (its an A but quickly overtaken by an E sound and its an S, not a Z)

[@hustlinmagic]

After listening to this, it becomes quite clear that Kwasi Kwarteng is part of the problem with our politics. Too much ego, too much Eton confidence, but not an ounce of common sense and very little genuine understanding of what public service actually is.

[@larslarsen5414]

Exactly. I have been following Brexit way too much sitting here in Denmark for eight years (my youngest childs entire life!). What I have seen is this endless stream of extremely well-educated, very articulate, very smart, very confident men ... very charming also.... but with absolutely no realistic political project. They are living in fantasy land. The real worlds problems are just not very interesting to them. They are aiming higher...

[@Jaaj2009]

100% agree, statements like Boris was the right man for the job at the time because he was a good campaigner, when he got to office clearly had no idea what he was doing. This over confidence they have that they can make big statements on paper to attract attention and that's all you need to get in government. He says himself that governing is totally different, but the idea that if you are in the right crowd you can have a go and take your turn and then walk away from it and pursue other projects like its not your problem. It's honestly repulsive, he has no interest in seriously building a good country, its all about career ambitions and getting to the top.

[@JK-zx3go]

Its all about him.

[@NoNo-we6mp]

⁠​⁠@@larslarsen5414I think a lot them are just in it for the status and don’t actually care. There are a lot of these office seeking types in the uk.

[@whtwht]

Most UK politicians don't give a damn about the public and helping towards a we'll run society .They should look at well run countries but hubris is quite a thing.

[@colinseeney471]

It's a really interesting podcast. Kwasi was much more thoughtful than I expected

[@MouldyCheesePie]

Thoughtful but doesn't appear to have learned much, or care much. It's like he lacks the real world understanding.

[@benglishman]

Kwasi comes across as someone who thinks that making "bold" statements, doing something "different", making headlines and campaigning well are all that matters in politics. Exactly the sort of person who shouldn't be in politics and not surprising that when he was in government it was a total disaster.

[@carltontweedle5724]

14 years of trickle down economics where the bloody money gone. Not on the people we are ripped off by the gas the electric the water. If you drive a car your goosed.

[@tomblackwell6374]

Yeah, time for trickle up, universal income for all with a cap on pricing so the markets don't jack prices up. That way businesses and services which working people actually want will thrive not credit and debt buy now pay later trampy shells

[@boas7742]

We have not had trickle down economics for the past 10 years though, nothing about conservative economic policy has been conservative or neo-liberal economics in nature they have repeatedly raised income tax in order to try and fix an inflation and debt crisis that they fundamentally misunderstood and anyone suggesting trickle up economics is a socialist and border line communist who if they got their way would entirely collapse the economy

[@fl-ri-]

I would say 27 years of socialism ruined the country

[@twelvebears1971]

I don’t understand why everyone is being so forgiving. It’s not a bloody game and the consequences of his actions and those of his party have seriously affected thousands. This is just arrogance of the worst kind.

[@MouldyCheesePie]

They're allowing him to speak and giving him a false sense of security, which makes him open up more and more 🤦‍♂ At least we now know what was going through their heads.

[@chukwudiilozue9171]

@@MouldyCheesePie Air. Air was in their heads.

[@lachd2261]

When I listened to this, I did hear someone who was thoughtful and intelligent, as well as apologetic, but at the same time strangely disconnected from the terrible impact of the policy he implemented.

[@TheYoungVeganUK]

I didn't hear someone who was apologetic at all

[@lighting7508]

idk where youre getting apologetic from chief

[@herewegoo2677]

Agreed, he wasn't apologetic. He agreed that he made mistakes, yet he's unable to say, "I am sorry, I am idiot who toyed with the lives of 60 million people." He will never be apologetic because he's an egotistical etonian who doesn't care

[@accountnamewithheld]

"Fuck their pensions"

[@user-uf4rx5ih3v]

When you say intelligent, what do you mean? It's quite clear to me he has no emotional intelligence, nor does he have any common sense, or much understanding of the UK economy. Perhaps you mean well-read? Sure he is, so what?

[@xxteresaxx9227]

Bad, bad, bad. Everything is poor: morals, accountability, competence, values. I'm horrified we have had someone like him in government

[@juliangilbert5465]

The last Eton entrance question is extraordinary . This is dystopian .

[@stephenderry9488]

That's why they call it a Prepare-a-Tory school.

[@philipvjones397]

It's meant as a written q. Not easy for a 12 year old admittedly, but it depends on how your brain works. It's the sort of thing you would have had in an 11+ back in the day - when there were actually decent schools.

[@juliangilbert5465]

@@philipvjones397 I passed the 11 Plus and went to a grammar school. We were never asked how we would react to protestors being shot. Get your head out of your backside.

[@battina]

Alastair: “You spaffed tens of billions.” Kwasi: *Laughs like it’s the best day of his life*. Total sociopath lacking compassion or respect.

[@acheampongkf]

He pronounces his name incorrectly. Its pronounced Kwehsi (its an A but quickly overtaken by an E sound and its an S, not a Z)

[@danielkarmy4893]

@@acheampongkf To be fair to him, when you consider the job he did as Chancellor, expecting him to be able to pronounce his own name may be getting ahead of ourselves ever so slightly!

[@julianroberts8760]

Wonderful example of disagreeing agreeably. A really enjoyable episode to watch in spite of the seriousness of what was talked about.

[@acheampongkf]

He pronounces his name incorrectly. Its pronounced Kwehsi (its an A but quickly overtaken by an E sound and its an S, not a Z)

[@spanishinquisition8678]

Really appreciated Rory pointing out when Kwarteng was being incredibly blasé. And I still think Rory was in the wrong party!

[@MouldyCheesePie]

Rory was naive to not realise what that party was like behind the scenes.

[@davebryant7114]

fascinating, he came across far more human, likeable and interesting than I had expected.

[@Brokout]

We don’t need those traits in a public servant, we just need them to not ruin the country. Judge someone by their record, not how interesting they are in an interview

[@gdwe1831]

​@Brokout whilst I agree with you, I don't think we practice what we preach

[@acheampongkf]

He pronounces his name incorrectly. Its pronounced Kwehsi (its an A but quickly overtaken by an E sound and its an S, not a Z)

[@alanb9443]

I feel that it was all just some big experiment for him. He comes across as slightly sarcastic rather than vindictive. He just doesn’t seem to compute that what he did had a major affect of people’s lives. ‘We got it wrong’, yeah but it’s more than that. This isn’t some math problem in an exam u didn’t get right.. peoples lost their homes over this… family members from sucide etc. he doesn’t seem to fully grasp what happened outside his direct world.

[@alanb9443]

Sorry that’s was auto correct, I meant to say he was narcissistic.

[@sluglife9785]

Arguably people like that are more likely to end up in government, as it exists. If you were deeply affected by the results of your actions as a minister, you'd have a great deal of difficulty acting at all. I often think of it with the Police. Sensitive people don't become cops, because how can you live with yourself taking these giant interventions in other people's lives?

[@InsanitiesBrother]

What he did didn't actually have much effect. It's more media stuff than actual long term economic damage. What he did 'sounds bad' and is a good attack from a political perspective. But in the grand scheme of Ukraine and the subsequent energy crisis... his budget did next to nothing. You could argue it was less than Gordon selling our gold for instance.

[@user-uf4rx5ih3v]

@@sluglife9785 Being sensitive and having morals have nothing to do with each other. This man is not particularly emotional, he is also morally deficient and an idiot. He got in government because he was well connected.

[@sbing7]

Brilliant interview! Thank you all. Kwasi was open, relatively honest and not defensive, which is saying a lot about any politician! But the key to the success of the discussion, in my opinion, was Rory's constant push toward the meaning and morality of our actions. He was , in a word, tough and that makes it so much more interesting. Good work for all 3 guys!

[@jdg9999]

Honestly pathetic that he tries to suggest that you had to be yearning for the British Empire to want to be a sovereign independent country. Wanting to be free of foreign rule is the opposite of imperialism.

[@stephengreen6683]

I got through this interview and at the end, upon reflection, it was the word WOW! that kept coming to mind. Total lack of empathy for the seriousness of the impact of his actions, all just a game and every time he backed a candidate for leadership was based on who he thought would win. A fantastic insight into why conservatives need to be ejected on the 4th July

[@fplyerbs5251]

Alistair flippantly moving away from the Iraq war... Almost joking about it... disgusting!

[@PermaBear-bi9jk]

The brass neck on him to be constantly accusing other people of lying is extraordinary too…

[@barry013]

We were going at 150 mph - into a brick wall…

[@charlespilgrim9318]

One of the best podcasts to date

[@fateenshareef8716]

It was a great episode to watch for me as non-Brit, but I can't blame the brits in the comment section abusing and seething at him. This is the man who single handedly spiked their mortgage rates. Doing the crazy things, he knew were crazy because he wanted the top job.

[@davidbaker5561]

Your parents should be proud of you Kwasi, you’ve done a lot more to destroy the Tory Party than most 🥳

[@nickbarton3191]

Kwateng, although obviously intelligent, showed an incredible lack of judgement on hitching himself to Truss. She is a fruit loop, that was obvious years ago. A rational PM would have reined him in, and conceived feasible plan. What they seemed to do was blurt out perhaps their final objective, rather than step-wise moves. Who doesn't want lower taxes, but that has to go in hand with a growing economy. Their reasoning that low taxation of itself causes a growing economy, is incredibly naive.

[@lynxo5695]

Absolute fascinating discussion. Really enjoyed it 👏 👏 👏

[@AM-gy5xg]

Thanks for my morgage costs going up not voting Tory ever

[@piccalillipit9211]

*WE WERE GOING 150MPH* yeah, the wrong way up the motorway on your phone whilst pissed....!!!

[@StopTheRot]

The reason I’m NOT voting Conservative is populism. I hate this right wing BS: it’s so patronising.

[@nw988]

Good afternoon gentlemen!

[@andypicken7848]

Gents thank you for making this available. I had no idea how how intersting as well as entertaining this man is. A really good informative podcaste

[@lakedistrict9450]

Does he have a fearsome intellect? He’s learned some Etonian phrases, but clearly lacking qualities needed for public service.

[@odin3158]

he does -- otherwise he wouldn't have topped his classes (as here described by a classmate of his). I don't know what 'lacking qualities needed for public service' has to do with intellect.

[@lakedistrict9450]

@@odin3158 Are the classes he topped a measure of fearsome intellect? Doesn’t seem so in the light of his poor judgment when in high office. Intelligence is one element of public service is it not?

[@odin3158]

@@lakedistrict9450 being at the top of your class in eton and cambridge is a more accurate measure of intelligence than your (in)ability to perform in public office. He obviously failed engaged in the latter, but there are different qualities necessary to excel.

[@lakedistrict9450]

@@odin3158 I understand the distinction you are making. Would you conclude that that being top of one’s class at Eaton, and a humanities degree is not a reliable indicator for the workplace?

[@odin3158]

@@lakedistrict9450 Yes. However that wasn't the original question, it was concerned specifically with his 'fearsome intellect'. I dont't want to argue semantics however -- if your last reply was what you were initially intending i'll apologize for unnecessarily splitting hairs.

[@susanbaker7282]

Intelligent without any feelings nothing will affect this man. Thank goodness he was stopped

[@stuartmcloughlin]

Great interview chaps. Glued from start to finish. As usual.

[@jamesbrodrickmusic9567]

This guy is so used to hanging out with wronguns he has lost all perspective. Seems he has no idea how awful he sounds

[@gammamaster1894]

Very interesting interview, I'd enjoy more of this kind.

[@josyms7849]

No experience of the real world

[@MachivelianBear]

Do you mean he lives on Mars?

[@samuelmelton8353]

He backed Brexit, Johnson, Truss - does he ever make the right decisions?

[@mikekaaks8501]

I loved Kwasi's couple / few uses of "its the vibe" - memories of that great Aussie movie The Castle

[@benrevell6208]

intellect ≠ competence

[@erongi233]

Another inter Old Etonian discussion , yet another Old Etonian. So well connected,so exclusive ,so annoying to the rest . It is like nation is colonised by a very ,very small elite who all know one another and decide things in discussions between themselves most often behind closed doors decade after decade, century after century.

[@KevenHutchinson-gt1nn]

Blister didn't go to Eaten

[@erongi233]

@@KevenHutchinson-gt1nn Kwatang and Rory Stewart went to Eton.

[@KevenHutchinson-gt1nn]

@@erongi233 Yes, but Alister didn't.

[@erongi233]

@@KevenHutchinson-gt1nn 2 is outrageous but 3 out of 3 would be extreme coincidence gone far too extreme even for Old Etonian dominance.

[@jaexiusnem1267]

30:25 ‘they started to spend a lot more money’ yes, and? New labour had many problems but spending more money was not one of them, yet unsurprisingly Kwarteng acts like this is on par with the illegal Iraq war.

[@dsjwhite]

This has been amazing. All my preconceptions are wrong. Thank you for this insight. I'm still confused.

[@ajw9533]

How the hell could he work with Johnson after his picaninny comment? No dignity at all.

[@PermaBear-bi9jk]

It may shock you to discover that jibes and jokes about skin colour and race are not exclusively said by white people…

[@stevenhodgson4227]

He's the whitest black man we've seen, to paraphrase Gaddafi's remark to Obama.

[@TheYoungVeganUK]

I work in medical testing. Because of brexit, directly, we can no longer get malaria testing kits. Staff have left the country, supplies cost more and are severely delayed. Brexit has definitely changed things for the worse.

[@tonybenson8303]

What a great discussion, thank you

[@acheampongkf]

He pronounces his name incorrectly. Its pronounced Kwehsi (its an A but quickly overtaken by an E sound and its an S, not a Z)

[@tobyjaffe270]

Kwasi mentioning that New Labour was an influence on his entering politics was fascinating and does sort of put Campbell in a little bit of a bind. He is not entirely innocent here in terms of the degradation of politics since the late 20th century.

[@arthursattler2344]

This was a brilliant episode!

[@christopherhutchinson6101]

So mini budget was made and thought at end of announcement was MMMM LETS SEE! and it was the people of this country which suffered on a Lets see. These are the Conservative politicians today and how they operate. We are in such a mess, no wonder.

[@InsanitiesBrother]

How are people so disenengious... The 'hmmm let's see' was his thought on how the rest of the house was going to take the announcement. He even elaborated and said how some people seemed shocked in a good way and some in a bad. The context is clearly that he didn't know if the house was going to overall support it or hate it. Even the question was about how he read the room. You and many others are why our politics are so shite. Someone could say they like the colour red and you would go "OH MY GOD, YOU LIKE SEEING BLOODY MASSACARES"

[@user-uf4rx5ih3v]

@@InsanitiesBrother I think you just argued against yourself, my guy. How are you going in with a budget proposal that your own fucking party might not even support?

[@kwabenaakuamoa9897]

Interesting conversation. It’s refreshing to witness past politicians share their experiences so candidly. Case in point: Rory’s experience of Liz Truss as a manager/leader. As always, Kwasi Kwarteng provides frank, rational and pragmatic insights on modern politics. I look forward to reading his future books.

[@jeremyquantrill4137]

Brilliant interview, thank you.

[@acheampongkf]

He pronounces his name incorrectly. Its pronounced Kwehsi (its an A but quickly overtaken by an E sound and its an S, not a Z)

[@rossa809]

Excellent interview

[@hudsonfrempong224]

Brilliant interview

[@tisFrancesfault]

By all means an Interesting interview. Kwarteng does come off as the type of person that I would love to talk with; though ultimately not the kind of person I'd like to see in a Great office of state. Again though, The idea that Truss and Kwarteng were responsible for the issues following the budget is overly simple. Fiscal conditions at the time were already pushing UK pension funds to a degree of crisis, and that would have played out regardless. Truss and Kwarteng Budget was much like throwing a jerry can into an already burning building. Not helpful, but not the cause.

[@bakerbaker4455]

Well, not really. Thier brand of econimics is outdated and innefective, they also didnt actually know where they were going to get the money to pay for unfunded tax cuts. It was completly inevitable what would happen, which is why the did everything they could to avoid scrutiny before the budget. It was a purely ideoligical move and it was incredibly grim.

[@tisFrancesfault]

@@bakerbaker4455 This is conflation of separate factors. In many respects it stems from the BoE QT in 22 onwards, and the Impact of that on LDIs with pension funds with respect to liquidity and margin calls,. pension funds not typically being fully funned rely on LDIs etc and venerable to the bond markets, and the leveraging of said bonds. Even before the MB, they were having to liquidate Gilts for cash. (Its kinda funny cos high yield rate gilts are typically good* for pensions. ...if not leveraged) All the other crap of the MB, exacerbated not caused. Again BoE was planning on selling more gilts, the Gov was planning on selling gilts all at a time when the market was already dumping gilts. Basically it was a sideshow. Not to defend the MB at all. Though the real stupidity of that was it was striving to be growth based, which during a inflationary crisis ...would/was an interesting approach. (read: Dumb approach) In short, bad policy, implemented at a worse time, thus terrible result.

[@acheampongkf]

He pronounces his name incorrectly. Its pronounced Kwehsi (its an A but quickly overtaken by an E sound and its an S, not a Z)

[@shimrodson5443]

Great interview

[@grantleymorgan8996]

Interesting that we found 4 characteristics for PMs: intellect, experience, temperament, moral compass. If we can move voters to valuing these over ideology and charisma, we'll be far better placed for the next 12 years than the past 14.

[@rocket69218]

I didn't think I even wanted to watch this one... but it was very interesting.

[@adamcourtenay]

£150bn of spending commitments at a time of the energy crisis after the pandemic just absolutely spooked the markets. Britain was exporting over 10% of our electricity production to france who had a much more aggressive energy cap. the serious plan should have been to force France to drop the anti-competitive cap or we'd block energy exports - even if we compensated for loss of profit at the interconnect it'd have been far cheaper than subsidising everyone's energy bill

[@fatfreelondon]

When Kwateng blows £150bn, he's a hero of the right. When Corbyn does it, he's a hero of the left. Takeout: spending makes you a hero, but ends badly

[@MachivelianBear]

And how do you see that going? The British can’t force France to do shit.

[@adamcourtenay]

@@MachivelianBear we should not have been exporting energy to France who were not playing by free market rules - and that goes for Germany and Spain too. British pensioners should not have been suffering so that Macron could heat his pool on the cheap whilst mining bitcoin

[@MachivelianBear]

@@adamcourtenay yes France is in the EU. A Nice protectionist market. Something the UK voted to get out off. Best regards from Denmark:)

[@doghat1619]

@@MachivelianBear well we couldn't force france to do shit whilst in the EU anyway, it's all just a wash

[@thomasoroarke7789]

He is really good speaker .He explains things really well

[@happychappy7115]

It's all a big game for Eton boys😢

[@acheampongkf]

He pronounces his name incorrectly. Its pronounced Kwehsi (its an A but quickly overtaken by an E sound and its an S, not a Z)

[@KevenHutchinson-gt1nn]

Alister didn't go to Eton.

[@akeandersson2672]

Extremely interesting.

[@bradwhiteuk]

Kwasi appeared to believe himself disconnected in some way from the damage he is so deeply responsible for. I think he not only lacks judgement, but also seems unwilling to acknowledge that there IS such a thing as good judgement. Politics is a game to him, and he knows he lost, but he seems vague on the real-world consequences of his defeat.

[@colinbrigham8253]

Thank 😢you for being so open for

[@acheampongkf]

He pronounces his name incorrectly. Its pronounced Kwehsi (its an A but quickly overtaken by an E sound and its an S, not a Z)

[@TonyTsobanis]

Kwasi talks about this tax problem being something complicated. Its not, tax the super wealthy and ensure companies pay their fair share, then you will have to enough to cover your public outgoings. Why is this never on the table?

[@lukeskywalker8543]

High tax=companies leave

[@TonyTsobanis]

@@lukeskywalker8543 I did not say high tax, I said fair share. Companies use all sorts of loop holes to avoid paying the normal rates the world over. Close the loop holes.

[@lighting7508]

@@TonyTsobanis close the loop holes = companies leave. Horrible but true.

[@MrJTB606]

Listening to this man makes my skin crawl.

[@kiriakoz]

I like how none of these people can admit they were financed by dark money and shady lobbyists rather just making an accidental error. Of course it is often incompetence but more often than that, it’s corruption.

[@Schmexxy]

imagine giving this guy the time of day

[@Symbioticism]

I really came away from this interview thinking Kwasi is a jerk: friendly and amiable, but totally lacking in moral fibre.

[@AB-gi3qy]

I enjoyed listening to this, you should have more people on who you dont necessarily agree with, otherwise you risk turning into an echo chamber.

[@mcode]

insightful

[@andal7404]

You knew what Boris was really like all along. That's unforgivable.

[@Timehasfallenasleep]

I think Rory’s critique of Liz Truss was spot on. But Rory and Alistair were too easy on Kwasi who was patently out of his depth as Chancellor. The big take away from this interview is what useless people our leaders are.

[@bluefarie10]

I have the same reaction listening to Dr Kwarteng that I had to reading Hegel on history. It's akin to Winston Smith's description of talking to O'Brien in the Ministry of Love: how do you argue with someone who is both more intelligent than you are, and mad?

[@BHopper08]

Does anybody else have an issue with the picture not showing? I was hoping to watch rather than just listen …

[@indexfinisher]

Really enjoyed this interview, very insightful. So much so I came back to listen to it again and had difficulty finding it, only realising it's not on the Rest is politics page but Leading..... why?

[@alexm7310]

Really interesting / entertaining and very enjoyable. Useful to hear the rationale behind the mini budget - growth, and breaking out of the doom loop. Lack of growth is a problem - what will be the solution?

[@KevenHutchinson-gt1nn]

Well, Rachel Reeves has been on recently and has put me at ease, and has the answer. We need to grow the economy to get growth.

[@maryconnor6173]

Really enjoyed this discussion. Kwarteng is interesting and very engaging. Surprised by Rory’s comment that they select people for the pod that they admire - George Osborne? I thought they both despised him and his politics.

[@garrybynon6080]

how he talks to his fellow peers and how he spoke to the public, just a game to him, to all of that cabinet

[@odin3158]

You mistranslated 'Victrix causa deis placuit, sed victa Catoni'. 'The victorious cause pleased the gods, but the defeated cause pleased cato'. It is a phrase used in a situation in which ones fundamental principles are correct, but one still fails due to (random) cirumstance. As such it is not a reference to brexit, but rather to his mini-budget.

[@dougtsax]

At the end AC and RS talk about growth needed to pay for needs but there must be a different way of accounting to make the world more sensible and caring. I'll try to think it through.

[@ER1CwC]

1:34:45 - This is very interesting. What they don't realize is that Thatcher, whom they love, was pragmatic, even if she was a conviction politician. She became ideological towards the end, and that's what got her in trouble.

[@xf9068]

Its unbecoming for a politician to talk about Government policies to another politician; extraordinarily candid insight into how it is in Westminster

[@kathrynhatton7851]

Alistair, you were so right to be depressed at the school girls view of politics, but here is the reason why.

[@bakerbaker4455]

shows how fucked up uk politics is when they all went to the same school

[@curingd]

The most revealing bit for me was towards the end where Rory was suggesting he wasn't "virtuous" and he was happy to blur the line between good and evil and people doing good/bad things. I get the impression that it's all a bit of a game for him. Also, my follow up question at Rory's suggestion that he was a bit "wild" would have been "do you think you're a bit wild because you've never had to face the consequences of your actions or beliefs?"

[@TheDave000]

Quite incredible really that he can be so cheery and sail off into the sunset of no doubt enormously paid consulting gigs, after costing us all billions. No shame at all, and a hollow apology. It's really hard not to hate him.