Scanning Film With VueScan + Epson Scan Comparison

[@MichaelAngeloMacias]

The reason the color looks desaturated when set to Adobe RGB is because your display is not set to the correct color space. Your image's gamut isn't being mapped to the intended gamut, because as you mentioned, Vuescan is not managing color, it is expecting you to have it set up already.If your display offered Adobe RGB, switching to it would correct this. To maximize conversion quality, Adobe Lightroom manages color by converting all images on the Develop module into ProPhoto RGB (available in VueScan) before it get converted to your display profile. You may already know this and chose not to mention this but I thought of bringing this up for anyone curious

[@szolotuhin]

I have v850 and i tried Epson Scan, VueScan, Silverfast. Spent many hours to understand, how to scan negatives more stable. VueScan + Auto Levels gets good results. But there is one method, that get the best result - a lot of information in shadows and highlights, best and accurate color. With v850 i have the IT8 slide target, it`s useless thing for scanning negatives, but there is one good way. I scan with VueScan, slide mode, RAW TIFF file output, i scanned my IT8 target, get ICC profile. I just scan with raw tiff, open in photoshop, apply my icc, invert + curves = the best results. No other software show my colors like this, i have SilverFast AI Studio and it`s worse.

[@Tehdits]

Yep, also the method ive found works best.

[@KyleMcDougall]

Very interesting Stanislav. I’ll keep that in mind for the future. Looking to upgrade to an 800 series at some point.

[@szolotuhin]

I think no big difference between Epson scanners, but the price and bundle is another. It`s not necessarily to buy target or top scanner with bundled. Good way is to find from friends IT8 Slide Target, spend one evening, make icc profiles with i1Profiler from different software. it`s need to do one time for scanner and the target no longer need. I tried to calibrate vuescan in normal mode, epson scan and silverfast in slide mode, but results were not improved. Calibration after color correction gets loss of information. VueScan generates RAW TIFF without profile or color correction, another gamma, and icc calibration helps with it, it`s not transform the colors, just assign a profile.

[@JohnnyMcMillan]

Interesting way, is it possible to just use the same ICC profile you got from that slide target each and every time?

[@szolotuhin]

Yes, need to make ICC profile just once, the scanner does not change the characteristics during lifetime. The only one thing, that ICC calibrating works only for Slide mode. And need to make profiles for every software that you use - Epson Scan, Vuescan, Silverfast. Because every software gives different result.

[@alangauld6079]

The great thing about Vuscan is it works with almost any scanner regardless of make. I started using it in the 90's with my HP film scanner, but since then I've used it on about 5 or 6 different models and on Windows, MacOs and Linux computers. And continuous upgrades none of which have cost me a cent after the initial purchase. Plus the author Ed Hamrick is pretty good at answering questions and sorting out issues. I currently use it on my Linux box with an Epson multifunction print/scanner, a Canon flatbed and my Plustek film scanner. At the same time I use it on my Windows box with both Plustek and Canon. One piece of software regardless of device or computer. One purchase. ~30 years ago. The fact that the results are actually better than the makers software is a bonus!

[@JRileyStewart]

I hope everyone understands, but every time you make a post-scan processing change, you potentially decrement the quality of the image via processing artifacts. There are only two pre-scan settings in VueScan: Exposure (which alters the amount of light transmitting through the transparency and therefore affects the sensor) and Color Gain settings (which does the same thing on an R-G-B channel basis). Every other setting is actually done ON the scanned image (i.e., post-scan). Arbitrarily changing the post-scan settings, only to later plan to change them again in PS or other software, adds to the processing burden inflicted on the image, and therefore the quality of the final image/print. So the question becomes, is scanning software "better" at making those adjustments than PS or LR? You only want to adjust once...where should you do that? I personally make very few post-scan adjustments in VueScan (e.g., adjustments are limited to Exposure and R-G-B Gains (both pre-scan) to set my black point on the film base, R-G-B levels to set white point to avoid clipping any, a GEN COLOR profile, No Color Balance correction, and a wide Output Colorspace (ProPhoto). I then make make all color corrections, curves, filters, etc, in LR or PS. I expect this reduces the processing burden on my images and reduces processing artifacts, aliasing of grain, and otherwise technically shitty images. I explain it here: www.jrileystewart.com/blog/unlocking-your-scanner/, which is slightly different for B&W negatives and Color negatives. Hope this helps. BTW, the ability to reduce scanner processing burdens to bare minimum and reduce post-scanning manipulations is FAR better in VueScan than Epson Scan. And that gives me the power to get every bit of information possible from the negatives I make.

[@gordmills1983]

Correct, been doing it this way for 20 years just about with VS.

[@igormkovalchuk]

thanks for that! i’ve been struggling scanning in epson scan too and when i was in school years ago we used the pro version; completely couldn’t figure it out as i thought it was the only software for the v500 🥴 all the things you can do in there are immaculate compared to just the basic one. worth the money and now time to dive into scanning all my colored stuff that i’ve been putting off for years because of not liking any results. my friend was dealing with the same so sending this to her haha you made this years ago obv. but glad it’s helping me now!

[@mazeones]

God bless you brother. Very helpful especially when Epson abandoned all Mac users for V500.

[@jasonhowe388]

I have enjoyed all your uploads Kyle, this one included so thanks. I currently have an Imacon 848, in the past I've had an Epson V700, FS4000US, Reflecta Pro Scan.......I've used Silverfast, Vuescan, Epson Scan, you name it I've tried it. What I've learnt is that to date I have not found one workflow that works consistently well across all media. In my experience of scanning, you can always get a result but the level of pain will vary from roll to roll. Even having one of the best scanners around is not free of hassle, the Flexcolor software with the Imacon is painful, I miss Vuescan and Silverfast and I'm currently weighing up a V800 just to get that option back..... Anyway, I've seen you comment a couple of times that you are happy with the results you are getting here, it would be really useful to be able to view the file. Not sure if that's possible. Thanks again and look forward to the next upload.

[@KyleMcDougall]

Hey Jason. Thanks for watching! Sounds like you've had your fair share of experience with different scanners and programs. I'm curious to see what I think of my VueScan workflow after using it for a couple more months. As for a test file, when I have a chance I'll post up a link in the description that way you can download it. Cheers!

[@ghosttownsentinel5288]

It's interesting to see other people's scanning workflow. The picture was natural and neutral at timeline 7:30 before you invoked the Portra 400NC profile. I am trying to understand why you need to embed that profile if it looked fine to begin with. Is it a case of, use it because it is there? It took the image from NICE! to YIKES!!! Why do you need to embed the profile and then combat the unsightly blue/cyan cast? It's a warm sunny morning (or perhaps midday in Canada), and the color of the light on the white car paint looked natural without the profile. Just needed some levels and curves adjustments is all. So I am wondering, why use the profile? The Vuescan's final output looks gaudy to be honest, compared to the Epson scan. Old cars in an old western town makes for a fantastic shot! Great find, man!

[@KyleMcDougall]

All comes down to personal preference. I chose that profile and tweaked it the way I did because it's what looked good to me. And I completely understand that other people may not like it, or may prefer a different version. Not trying to tell people what to do, rather just show them what I do, and maybe it helps, maybe it doesn't. As for the pic, thank you! This is from Bisbee in Arizona. Such a cool spot to explore.

[@jonesmom5]

Thank you for making this video. I was able to follow along and try out the steps in Vue scan. It was a great tutorial. I know that wasn't your intent for making this video but you did a great job.

[@TerraMagnus]

Thanks for this walk-through! Just a couple of quick notes, maybe this will improve your workflow further? * TIFF Compression is lossless, so by turning it on you don’t lose anything. But you save disk space, and you save time moving those files around. The only reason to not use compression would be if you’re importing into software that doesn’t understand TIFF compression. Lightroom doesn’t have that problem. * DNG file format... your file system can only handle a certain number of files (this is separate from how much space you have... think of it like entries in a little black book, names to phone numbers... the black book can only hold so many names and numbers before it runs out of lines to write in). DNG is just a wrapper around the TIFF. You still have a compressed TIFF in there. But Lightroom can bundle the sidecar metadata it builds right into the DNG file. This can save extra metadata like the IR channel. Give it a try and see if it doesn’t improve your workflow. (NOT the same as RAW DNG, which I’m not suggesting trying)

[@UNOCASTILLO]

i just finish the video and i was about to ask about this. thanks for your answer

[@UNOCASTILLO]

i still wondering. why not to use raw?

[@MichaelAngeloMacias]

@@UNOCASTILLO Saving your images as Raw would bypass any adjustments on the color tab, you would be left with an image that is Gamma Linear and would appear too dark and contrasty. This is used for archiving and can be thought of as a true digital negative much like CR2 NEF ARW, etc. If you were interested in saving the archive, remember to set your bit depth to 64bit**. Kyle didn't seem too sure but 64bit is used to retain the alpha channel that contains the dust information necessary for Digital ICE. with it, you could reprocess the color in VueScan by changing the scanner input to "File" and even batch process image sequences and apply dust removal. **make sure that your scanner is able to record an alpha channel.

[@steve55619]

I tried this and the output TIFF files actually came out larger with compression turned on. Not sure what is going on with that

Tiff compression is lossless. Use it! It saves you a lot of diskspace and will not mess up with any information or quality.

[@richardg6109]

Nice job. But to my eye, I'd rather work from an image that looks more like Portra (Epson scan) than Ektar (Vuescan). Of couse, I don't know what the scene looked like when you took the shot.

[@KyleMcDougall]

Thanks Richard. The scene was quite contrasty to begin with. Funny enough, the VueScan image looks very similar to the lab scan I had done of this image on a Fuji Frontier. I should have posted that in the review as well.

[@lopescorte104]

Theres no such thing as a "ektar or portra look" Every image printed or enlarged we already see of film was in one way or another touched to give some caracter

[@richardg6109]

Loppes Well, I guess you set us all straight. Thanks for the education, Professor Loppes.

[@thesavicouple]

After making the switch to Mac Silicon from Windows a couple of months ago I found myself unable to scan as Epson scan isn't compatible and Epson scan 2 doesn't support my 4490 or 4990. This is the video that convinced me to put my hand in my pocket and purchase Vuescan, I'm only a day into using it and finding it confusing as hell in comparison to the Epson software, but I'll get there eventually. Thanks for posting this.

[@KyleMcDougall]

Cheers, Johnny. Give VueScan some time and I’m sure you’ll love it.

[@nicorobin2019]

Hello! How did you connect your v500 to your computer? I recently got a v500 but I can't tell if it's faulty because it won't appear on Epson Connect Printer Setup.

[@donalddodson7365]

Thank you, Kyle. Getting ready to buy my first slide digitizer and am now leaning toward flat bed Epson. Well done, not too much over my head and nice examples of "A" or "B" views.

[@KyleMcDougall]

Glad you enjoyed, Donald.

[@psionicdreams]

About the dpi- my thoughts are to scan at the highest dpi your computer can work with or, if scanning to make prints, scan at a dpi that is good enough for the chosen print size. For personal work I scan at 2400 as this is more than adequate for my needs. However, when scanning negs for custom who want prints making I'll scan at 1200 as this big enough for 5x7 inch prints and is quicker to scan. I'd add that for me 3200 or more is overkill but I'd also add that bigger is better with imaging so scan at the biggest size your computer can handle. And you have the patience of a saint waiting on the scan 😉 Oh, I should also mention that we use an Epson v700 photo.

[@aaronmoiche330]

Loved the video so much. Usually these kinds of tutorials are hard for me to watch because I don’t understand much of what they talk about but you made it clearer. I was pretty ignorant on the subject thinking shooting film didn’t require you to do any kind of editing or tweaking afterwards so your video was very informative. Thanks for sharing man

[@KyleMcDougall]

Aaron, thank you. I always appreciate the support man!

[@seitil]

Awesome vid, I really enjoy all of your work. I've used my V600 for scanning my 120 negs for a few years and have always been interested with VueScan but could never get really good results so I have stuck with epson scan. I may have to give VueScan another shot! Super informative and top notch production. Keep it up!

[@KyleMcDougall]

Thanks, Austin! Really appreciate that.

[@vuescan5578]

Hi Austin - We have made many improvements so please download VueScan and test it out.. full version to download and test for as long as you like - it has watermarks on all outputs before purchase. Thanks!

[@aumortis]

Just so you know - TIFF supports lossless compression like LZW and ZIP, I'm guessing that compression setting uses that - so you get same image, smaller files, slower saving/loading ;) and looks like VueScan has some color management issues (since you can select monitor color space, it looks like it does color managment in it's own quirky way).

[@Microwaved_Nachos]

To be honest if you spent the same amount of time making those adjustments in vue scan on the epson software you would’ve gotten a similar result. Both programs do the same thing, just with a different UI. It almost felt like you wanted to epson scan to be a worse outcome. I don’t feel like it was quite a fair comparison. Either way I appreciate the time it took to make the video.

[@skakdosmer]

The VueScan result looks more spectacular, but also quite phony. And even though I wasn't there when the picture was taken, I feel pretty sure the Epson scan looks more like the real world.

[@michaell4598]

;P lol

[@Bass-guitarist]

I scan my 4x5 negs with a Nikon D800 and sigma FX105 macro lens. I purchased Vuescan specifically to invert colour negs which it does really well. Been very impressed with it. Thanks for the vid. Film is catching on again.....

[@levithomasorourke3117]

Great video, I really recommend colour perfect plug in for Photoshop used along side vue scan, definitely give it a go sometime ☺️

[@KyleMcDougall]

Thanks, Levi. I've had a couple of recommendations for that one and may explore it more in depth in the future.

[@jordanlaine7412]

My a7RIV with a 100mm 1:2 macro has given me some incredible home scans with a stupid amount of dynamic range to work with. My old director who took a class from Ansel Adams at Brooks in the 70s was like "oh you can shoot an under, a normal, and an over and get all the dynamic range you could get from the negative!" No need for that, this produces some better scans than the best drum scanners in the mid 2000s.

[@KyleMcDougall]

Yep, I've been very happy with 'camera scanning'. Has some quirks to work out, but once you get a setup dialled in, you're good to go.

[@jordanlaine7412]

@@KyleMcDougall Yeah, film advancers make digitizing a roll super fast! Nailing that focus the first time is the quirky thing I'm still working on.

[@davidrichards6718]

just bought vuescan to use on an old epson scanner, this has helped hugely, thanks

[@KyleMcDougall]

You're welcome.

[@capry777]

what version has negafix ?

[@thenexthobby]

@@capry777 That's a Silverfast name for their film profile presets.

[@alexanderhakimi8297]

look into creating RAW scans and using Silverfast HDR. Faster workflow, better colors.

[@SeanKobiSandoval]

In the Input tab two things you didn't mention that I heard elsewhere... From what I understand, number of passes is basically scanning more times to reduce less noise (highest value being 16 passes); and multi-scan is scanning twice to get a better scan quality from the shadows.

[@ChrisKonieczny]

This was probably the most helpful VueScan video I have seen. Thank you.

[@KyleMcDougall]

Glad you enjoyed it, Chris.

[@AlexeyAmelyushkin]

Man, you spent like most of your time adjusting the picture in vuescan and 30 seconds in epson scan program, and hope that the results will be the same? Seriously?

[@squarz]

He did almost the same things

[@j.q.b.9119]

notice that their settings were pretty much the same.

[@jonnoMoto]

He hasn't actually used the best feature I find with vuescan. Scan an empty section (unexposed) of the reel/roll and lock the exposure and base colour. Saves so much time on subsequent scans. I don't bother with any of the colour adjustments of vuescan and set the colour balance to "None". Also, being able to profile the scanner is definitely a feature worth paying for.

[@clauskunckel]

Thank you for the informative video. I've just downloaded the Vuescan software and will give it a try since I've never been happy with the Epson software.

[@Anonymous-it5jw]

For those who want to use VueScan, which is my choice, be sure to buy the lifetime subscription when you buy your license, and you will get lifetime updates instead of having to buy a new license every year, and the cost difference is negligible if you consider the time and effort you are going to put in to scan your images. VueScan was developed by a guy who was tired of perfectly good scanners being left useless by manufacturers who either didn't update the software that came with the scanner as computer operating systems kept getting "improved" over the years, or who just stopped making scanners. Accordingly, if you have any kind of negative or print scanner sitting in a closet or attic that you think you can't use anymore, well, you can use VueScan with virtually any scanner ever made, and if yours is not on the list, the owner of VueScan may be able to do a little programming and make VueScan work with your scanner, if you contact him. If you have an old computer that can no longer be upgraded, like an old iMac, and an old scanner, you can use the combination to scan things with VueScan, although usually at a slower rate, but you can let it run while you're doing other things or using your new fast computer and your Epson V-850 Pro to scan fluid-mounted critical images, for example. Finally, the instructions provided online are a little slim, so you will want to buy a book called the "The VueScan Bible: Everything You Need To Know For Perfect Scanning" which goes into great detail on how to use every feature incorporated into the program. It's not the kind of book you're likely to find locally, so I suggest the usual online book sellers, and if you are cheap, like me, you can often find used copies available from sellers such as Amazon, who will connect you with small booksellers all over the place who have what you are looking for and handle the transaction for you and the book seller. I have had great luck buying used books this way. The print price for a new printed version of this book has gone way up since I bought mine, but using free Kindle software, you can buy the Kindle version on Amazon for a lot less than the print price.

[@brineb58]

I have the same scanner and use Vuesan for Polaroids/Instax pics ... nice to see your workflow ... I went to Vuescan because the scanner isn't supported in the newer Mac OS!!!

[@theDeitz]

Yep, I had to purchase VueScan V 9.7.45 being my Canon 5600F would not work with macOS Big Sur. Only issue right now is it dosen't have Infrared Clean, that I really like.

[@schragkraft]

A V500 scanning walk-through in 2018? Thank you! I'd been using Epson Scan as I initially found the Vuescan demo to be clunkier and less intuitive, but this had some great information. Haven't shot any film in a few years, but I came across a box of Kodak Ektar in my house, and feel like giving the shutter in my Rolleicord Va some exercise!

[@KyleMcDougall]

Glad you found it useful! Definitely run some film through that Rolleicord!

[@robertodolza]

Thank you so much Kyle, great tutorial and exceptional work. Thank you for clearing up a lot of doubts! 👍

[@KyleMcDougall]

Glad you found it helpful! :)

[@andrealivieri]

Really great video Kyle! Vuescan is absolutely amazing, I use it from about three years and I'm more than happy on the results. As always, brilliant video and pretty nice images. Cheers :)

[@KyleMcDougall]

Thanks, Andrea!

[@PJ-ku5lp]

Using the timeline on the video, you just spent 7 minutes configuring one image in VueScan (and that's with at least a couple video edits visible, so probably longer) and 55 seconds configuring Epson Scan. Moreover, the edits you made via Epson Scan actually blew away the color that Auto Exposure gave you, and then you used the washed out image quality as a negative against Epson. I mean I don't work for them, have no dog in the fight, but if you're going to do a comparison, do a comparison (or at least don't title your video as such). :) I've used both, and actually find each of them to be obnoxious in their own way. The only saving grace for Epson in my experience is that it will auto-select the images from 35mm negatives, whereas I was only able to find the manual option (drawing borders around each image) in VueScan. It may be there, but it wasn't apparent in the version I used. When you've got a large catalog of negatives to scan, this is huge, because every next negative will have shifted from the last and you have to adjust the borders every single time. It's awful... The Epson allowed me to scan them all with perfectly fine quality for the library, and now I can go back and re-scan individuals for further editing as needed. Just my two cents.

[@KyleMcDougall]

Like I mentioned in the video multiple times, I don't doubt that people can get better results out of Epson Scan than me. This is based purely on my workflow and how I use the program. I like the results that I can get out of VueScan better than the ones that I can get out of Epson Scan. I wanted to show the comparison with Epson Scan based off of my workflow only, that's it. It's what I'm choosing to use for the time being based. No dog in this fight either, just trying to help. :)

[@eladbari]

Exactly. The hassle with Vuescan is just too much. On the other hand, I actually don't use the plastic templates of my Epson V600, since ive found the scans to look uber-sharpened and with too contrasty colors when i let Epson scan automatically find & scan my frames. So, it's annoying & takes shitload of time, but I now scan negatives without that plastic template. I manually mark my frames on Epson scan and i get nice softer results with nicer colors. Probably softer cause the film is layed right on the glass and isn't in razor sharp focus. May sound bad but i totally hate super those sharpened scans with the plastic template! Even the grain is sharpened and it looks bad. If i could only control the focus and still use that plastic template...

[@peterjosvai9804]

@@eladbari I haven't done one scan with this yet, but I'm curious, couldn't you use a pane of glass to get it in focus?

[@eladbari]

@@peterjosvai9804 there are "anti-newton-rings" pieces of glass being sold. I dont think they control focus, though, and i think focus is fixed on those Epson flatbed scanners. Ah, there's also a plastic template being sold from 3rd party, where you can control it's height. so maybe that one could help. The biggest problem is film curl. gotta control that somehow...to get it flat...

[@andydreadsbmx]

I have personally been using the lomography digitaliza 35 and 120 with epson scan on the V600 and after watching this I personally feel that epson scan gives me a great baseline to start with and definitely more user friendly. Vuescan scan "seems" to get you closer to the end result with less work in the editing but I prefer the more flat image that I can adjust later from epson scan. This is coming from someone who has not used Vuescan.

[@hansjzeller]

Thanks a lot for making this video! I am looking for an alternative for Epson Scan, since it doesn't work anymore under Windows 11 for my V750 scanner, and seeing VueScan was very helpful. May I make two comments about the video: First, when adjusting the histogram in Epson Scan, I always use the "Show Output" button in the middle of that dialog to see the result histogram. That's probably similar to the histogram shown in the lower left of the VueScan screen. I suspect that when you adjusted the black and white triangles outwards, the image became flatter as a result, and the output histogram would have shown by how much the black and white triangles to adjust (this is referring to the "Histogram Adjustment" screen). This is definitely one of the weirder sides of Epson Scan, but over time I got accustomed to pushing the "Show Output" button. Second, compression for TIFF files is lossless in all common cases, so it should have no effect on the image quality. Having said that, 48 bit TIFF files usually don't compress very well, that works better for 24 bits.

[@oldfilmguy9413]

Thanks for a great run-through of VueScan - best I have seen. New subscriber to your channel, enjoying it greatly. Cheers!

[@gottanikoncamera]

Great tutorial. I’ve hated Vuescan for years, it’s the worst UI ever and hardest to figure out. You make me want to blow the dust off my copy and give it another shot. Thank you!

[@KyleMcDougall]

Thanks for watching. I'd love to hear about your results if you decide to give it another go.

[@vuescan5578]

We have made a lot of improvements to the UI (We know some things weren't that easy to follow!). So please download the latest version and try it again :-)

[@gottanikoncamera]

VueScan Thank you for reaching out. I’ll definitely give Vuescan another go.

[@gottanikoncamera]

@@vuescan5578 I gave the latest version another shot and with Kyle's tutorial it worked like a charm on a roll that was giving EpsonScan + NegLabPro real trouble! So, thanks, Kyle! One thing-the Crop tab only shows my last scan and not my current image/crop unless I reboot VueScan. Then Crop shows the current image I am working on. Any ideas @VueScan?

[@vuescan5578]

@@gottanikoncamera Press the "Preview" button to update the crop tab. Any questions at all - just email [e-mail] :-)

[@peterjosvai9804]

love this video, although I find it slightly biased for a comparison - - - - - - - - - - - - - - in details (if I may): love it, very probably owing to the great photo that was scanned, also to the beautiful videography, not to mention the note pronounced that you are no expert of VueScan, which, at that time I was “reading” as no “no bias whatsoever”…. my criticism: A. - in short: if you compare results, your methods should be comparable, too… Imagine someone comparing a scan obtained by using the Epson software, involving 10 mins of preparation, with the results achieved using VueScan in non-expert mode :) The same negative? Yes. Different results? Yes. Similar or even comparable methods? No. okay, the Epson doesn't have the film negative profiles, but we should see you adjusting or trying to adjust the image in a likewise advanced manner… B. - You state in the beginning that before buying the VueScan, you used to use the Epson software… so it must be a fair request that you show the viewers how you would actually use it :) You said you used to “struggle”… this doesn't seem anything close to even trying to achieve the best possible results… C. - You present the Epson result as bad because it was flat - which was the actual goal of your workflow, as you said… in any case, comparison should have been done histogram-to-histogram in the end, in your PP application perhaps, NOT image-with-adjusted-histogram--to--automatic-flat-scan-image PS: In any case… I enjoyed watching this video just like others… cause with one of the tested (compared) apps you just performed a inspiringly good quality scan, from which one can learna great deal - as I did, too… so, thanks!

[@KyleMcDougall]

Hey Peter, fair points. I'm not trying to sell anyone on any particular method of working, just showing what works for me. At the end of the day, all I care about it being able to scan my image and produce something that looks good to me on my screen. The steps I showed in Epson Scan are exactly how I've adjusted my negatives in the past. Auto, then setting black and white points, adjusting the mids. That's it. Maybe my VueScan method seemed more in-depth and complex because I was taking the time to walk through the program and explain each step. Regardless, I'm not claiming to be an expert, or that I know how to use Epson Scan to it's fullest potential. I'm simply showing how I used to use it, versus how I use VueScan. This wasn't meant to be a "showdown" of both pieces of software trying to squeeze every bit of potential out of each one. Glad you enjoyed it overall!

[@DianneCarter]

Thank you very much for this. If I want 11x14 should I change the "Output" "Printed Size" to "11x14" instead of the "4x6"? You skipped over that one adjustment.

[@brooklynswenson9134]

Same question here!

[@rvbsoundfactory]

Silverfast is my preference for my Epson. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

[@KyleMcDougall]

Thanks! I’ve heard good things about Silverfast as well.

[@eladbari]

Can Silverfast do auto invert to the negative within the software? It's annoying trying to recover positive image out of a negative scan. It's an extra step that comes out inaccurate many times

[@grainydaysss]

very informative, I use silverfast and have always had good results from that

[@KyleMcDougall]

I’ve heard good things about silverfast as well.

[@ChinaCameraStyle]

Epson's software IMO gives excellent results (with 120) and is fairly easy to learn and use effectively, which is great because it is free with the scanner. I don't find myself getting underwhelmed by these flat scans; I'm scanning an image, not expecting a finished article. I've never used Vuescan, but I guess it's the same as Silverfast (which I use with my Plustek 8100, as it was free). These are, to some extent, post-processing programs that also scan. Why pay for and learn another post-processing software? As long as I've got the resolution and dynamic range, I'll be happy. I'm going to be running everything through Lightroom anyway. This is just my two pennies, as a relative newb. I really like watching your videos, they're really well made and I learn a lot from them. Thanks!

[@MarkNF1]

Hi Kyle, I recently subscribed and am looking at older videos. I have a Coolscan 5000, use VueScan but have never been really happy with my scans of 35mm slides. Do you use the same color balance, black & white point, and curve settings for positives as you do for negatives? Also, VueScan does not have the wide choice of films for positives as it apparently does for negatives. There are not choices to chose between the several Ektachrome films that were available. I used the SW type. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.

[@KyleMcDougall]

I actually never shoot / scan positives. So can't comment on that. Nowadays, my scanning approach is much different. No longer using Vuescan or a flatbed. The current videos on my channel go into depth with the entire process if you're interested.

[@sergeyusik9934]

I I always use Vuescan in order to get a RAW date from a film. In this case, I am confident I get it all I could from a film with a scanner I have. And do the development later in PS.

[@arborems]

Kyle, VueScan's TIFF compression is lossless. From Vuescan's Manual: "Note that both the raw TIFF file and the crop TIFF file can be compressed. VueScan uses CCITT Group-IV compression for 1-bit files, and LZW compression otherwise. This may be slower to write, but takes around 40% less disk space." CCITT & LZW have been around for decades, are well supported and don't affect the image in any way. So you won't lose quality with tiff compression, just save disk space. BTW, looking forward to seeing more about your experiences with your Crown Graphic!

[@KyleMcDougall]

Michael, thanks for this! Good to know. Makes total sense to go that route if there's no visible difference.

[@lukaszbrozek]

Will you make video about editing photos in LR? Btw. Great video as always. Love your work. Keep it up!

[@KyleMcDougall]

Thank you! And yes, absolutely, I’ll make an editing video in the future.

[@david.4445]

An excellent tutorial. Thank you.

[@KyleMcDougall]

Glad it was helpful!

[@NUMB3RL3SS]

Great video, Kyle. Thanks! I'm scanning Kodak Film GC 400-B. What settings should I use for Media under the Input tab and for Negative Vendor and Negative Brand under the. Color tab? Thanks!

[@pidgepagonis]

Thank you! I just started scanning at a local lab here (DIY so you have to do it yourself) and I am using the epson scan software. This is SO helpful. Is there any possibility you will teach us your workflow for scanning black and white film? I would really really appreciate that... thank you for all of your awesome videos!

[@KyleMcDougall]

Thanks! I’m mainly a colour film shooter, so unfortunately I don’t have a black and white scanning workflow.

[@pidgepagonis]

Kyle McDougall oh dang! I love your videos. Please keep up the amazing work.

[@Raychristofer]

My man, good to see you back bro, one of my favorite film channels. Appreciate the scanning tips, I'm using an Epson v600 myself. Respect

[@KyleMcDougall]

Thanks, man! I appreciate the support!

[@francoismadelin3389]

One of the best video on the subject ! Thanks !

[@KyleMcDougall]

Thanks!

[@GerbenWijnja]

6:24 I feel like the strange instant white point shift may have been a bug. It works different now. The black point and white point have their own graph under Image > Graph b/w. It has two triangles below the graph, which you can drag to control the black point and white point values. 6:45 Curve low and curve high also have their own graph now, under Image > Graph curve, with similar controls. (That menu options is not yet visible in this video, it's a newer feature.)

[@steve55619]

actually I think its not a bug, the Graph b/w histogram shows what is happening. When you set the White Point to 0, the slider triangle on the Graph goes out past the end of the image on the histogram. When you click the "up" button once, it jumps the graph's White Point triangle to the edge of the histogram. Not clear to me why the value is always 0.02 when you do this, but it appears to be working correctly.

[@lostinspacestudio]

Awesome to see detailed breakdown of your process. I prefer scanning raw orr 16tiff in epson scan myself just getting a straight Raw style flat scn and then evrrything in LR.. would love to use my neg lab pro but it onoynworks with negarive inages and epson scn doesnt seem to support that.

[@Poppaneedsanap]

I've got a V500 and have raged against Epsonscan for years. I didn't gel with Vuescan either when I tried it years back but I'm going to have to give it another go I guess

[@pippopelo9060]

Epson is far better in my opinion. It allows much more post production being low contrast and is better colour balanced. Both of them are in any case not professional scanners. I'm 54 now and come from a three generations photographers family and I have myself printed on Gretag labs for a decade. I remember when my father leaded me to the dark room printings. It was so amazing to look at his skill in masking overexposed areas moving his hands under the enlarger lights. He tought me how important is working on tonal wide range. Definitely Epson produces more natural contrast.

[@SnazzyGoodTimes]

Love this comparison! Just a really great insight into flatbeds too. Thanks!

[@KyleMcDougall]

Thanks for watching!

[@artharbison1144]

Very well done. Professional looking video. Thank you for the tips on settings.

[@KyleMcDougall]

Thanks! Glad you enjoyed!

[@jakesloot211]

Nice video. Have you heard of the new lightroom plugin Negative Lab Pro? For me, it blows anything else out of the water. You scan the negatives as positives, drop white balance on the film mask, then let the plugin do the color inversion virtually perfectly.

[@KyleMcDougall]

I have heard of it, and tried it briefly and was pretty impressed. Need to give it another shot.

[@valentinrizvan1870]

I use Silverfast as well. I tried both Vuescan (+ Colourperfect) and Silverfast, spent a day scanning with both demos and I bought Silverfast. I felt it gives me better resolution and colour than Vuescan. I get better scans than my lab on a Fuji Frontier so I’m pretty happy with it. I forgot to add that I shoot almost exclusively Fuji 400H

[@KyleMcDougall]

That's awesome. I've heard good things about Silverfast as well.

[@MarcS4R]

which version of SF did you buy ?

[@valentinrizvan1870]

Marc H Silverfast SE 8

[@theresae194]

Dear Kyle :) , I have no negative holder available for my epson 3200 photo. Do you know what happens if I have none? Did you ever bought one on your own ?

[@KyleMcDougall]

Yep, you should be able to find one on ebay or Amazon. Pretty sure I bought one off of Amazon for my old V500.

[@phillipurias9467]

Love this video

[@andyvan5692]

one question, you use epson perfection V500 scanner, but this model doesn't do 4x5" sheet film or up to 8x10", only the V850 model does!!, is THIS model(V850) capable of using this vuescan and epson scan software? and is the workflow simmilar, as you show here for 35 mm?

[@KyleMcDougall]

Hey Andy, yes, VueScan works with almost every scanner, and the Epson's will all come with EpsonScan. Just a note as well, there are older Epson scanners that work with sheet film-v4990, v700/750.

[@cadona8215]

I have a V500 and used the same VueScan settings as shown in the video (including 3200 dpi) and my scan resolution is coming out pretty poorly. Is there something I could be doing wrong or is this just a limitation of these flatbed scanners?

[@KyleMcDougall]

Are you scanning medium format or 35mm?

[@ceritat625]

Very good video Kyle, good topic. I used an Epson V600 before I got a dedicated MF film scanner which I use with Vuescan, which as you say, confusing interface but once you learn the different settings it is very easy to use. Although my WF is different, I only use Vuescan to scan linear raw files. Lately, I have been using Silverfast which came with my film scanner, and after spending some time with it, it's really good too but then again my WF is not the same as most people.

[@KyleMcDougall]

That’s awesome. At some point I’d like to give Silverfast a bit more of an in depth try, just to see how it compares. But this works for me, for now. Which MF scanner did you end up picking up?

[@ceritat625]

I have the Plustek Opticfilm 120. Vuescan is awesome because the price, ease of use and the fact that you can use it with mostly any scanner is just amazing. Silverfast I would try only if it came bundled with a scanner, buying it as a standalone program is expensive.

[@joelstolarski2244]

You didn't change the film type on the tab when you used Epson scan. It showed Color Negative Film. Also, the Vuescan scan, was the flat image. The one from Epson scan was the darker of the two.

[@hrtlsbstrd]

Great video man, thanks for doing the work on this. It's a real bummer that scanner technology is stuck in 2002 - the fact that there's always so much fiddling needed to get passably good colours occasionally makes me give up on colour negative film. I'm working on a project where I shoot calibration targets on film and digital at the same time (several exposure levels to cover the film's dynamic range), then capture the whole roll of film including calibration frames so that I can match the calibration frames to a digital standard using adjustment layers in photoshop, which can then be applied to the rest of the roll. It's a bit tedious right now, and it's tricky to cover all of the film's dynamic range, but the process does give me much more accurate colours than I've ever gotten from an epson. It's too bad that film doesn't come with a calibration frame baked-in from the factory that we can calibrate against at scan in an automated way, then just white balance and adjust exposure like you can do with digital in lightroom...

[@KyleMcDougall]

Thanks for watching. And I agree, scanning colour negative film is definitely a challenging process. It seems like everyone has their own way of working. Your technique sounds really interesting! For me, VueScan is providing me with results that I'm finally happy with, but I am still pretty new to scanning at home and my main goal is just to lock down a process that works so I can focus on creating images.

[@hrtlsbstrd]

Totally, I'd really just love a reliable way of getting accurate colours. The best practical solution that I've found is to use Nikon's coolscan line of film scanners: the algorithms they use to balance colour works very very well 90% of the time, though the dynamic range they can handle is smaller than the Epson flatbeds. Time to get into slide film I suppose 🤷‍♂️

[@alessandrocitterio]

Hi Kyle, I recently got a V550 and having some issues with negatives out of focus. Did you ever experience something similar with your V500?

[@steve55619]

great video but there is one critical piece missing: batch scanning. Otherwise, you are forced to scan each frame individually, way too tedious. But figuring out how to set up batch scanning especially for 120 film in Vuescan is a huge pain! Just spent almost two hours figuring it out. Probably would have been worth a second ~10-15min video just on that topic though.

[@nice9992]

Thank you so much and appreciate it for this Video , it’s so Helpful, because I have a negative film bigger than normally and I really want print it

[@dalkapur]

Interesting video, Kyle. Though, I am not sure whether all you are doing with Vuescan is carrying out the necessary adjustments in Vuescan as opposed to Lightroom. The latter being an easier workflow. They should really have an auto button for white and black points in both Vuescan and Epson Scan. Would make life so much easier.

[@KyleMcDougall]

Hey Richard, like I mentioned in the video, I’m sure you could use LR to get the Epson Scan file to a similar point, but I’m pretty happy with the starting point the VueScan file provides, and for me it’s fairly simple to get it to that point in the software. And yes, auto white and black points would be great!

[@tbedgood]

Thanks for the very informative video! I'm in kind of a pickle. I went to dust off my old Epson 3200 and purchased Vuescan. Then thought I would try and improve things by buying an Epson V600. It seems no matter what settings I use I cannot get more resolution out of the V600 compared with the 3200. Is it possible that an almost 20 year old scanner can do better than a modern one? I mean that's what I'm seeing but keep thinking I'm missing something...I've tried multiple scan resolutions...Vuescan and Epson Scan...any ideas?

[@KyleMcDougall]

From my experience, the cheaper Epson scanners really don't differ from one another that much when it comes to image quality. Also, even though can you buy the V600 new, it was originally released back in 2010 I believe. So it's not new tech. Are you scanning 35mm?

[@tbedgood]

@@KyleMcDougall Yes, 35mm so far but I have 120 to scan, as well.I've since gotten some good results from the SilverFast software, so I may keep the scanner after all.

[@andyvan5692]

you use a MAC here, in this tutorial, is this software useable on WINDOWS machines?- aka windows 7/8/10 versions, or what software would you recomend for windows machines.

[@KyleMcDougall]

Yep, also available for windows.

[@radicaleyemag]

Looks like i need VueScan... Great video!

[@terrywbreedlove]

Love your photos

[@KyleMcDougall]

Thanks, Terry!

[@goofeyfoot7276]

I don’t know much about scanning, but I’m trying it out for the first time on an Epson scanner. I’ve got some photographs, mostly Kodacolor 400 which are probably 40 years old. The negatives look like they’re in pretty good shape, but all of the colors seem to gravitate to green and blue. Is there some way to get that out of there? Thanks for your help. Michael

[@rowlandh25]

Love your Work.

[@KyleMcDougall]

Thank you, Roland.

[@theDeitz]

Which version of VueScan are you using? I'm using V 9.7.45 and it dosen't have the Infrared Clean.

[@ghostboy4091]

I started using silver fast 8 and the results were much better then epsonscan

[@kuroexmachina]

wow youtube recent recompression really killed this video

[@Bussmicke2305]

@Kyle McDougall Wonderful video. I like it very much and its useful. Do you have anything with scanning slides with the Epson scanner and Vuescan? Or can you make one?

[@liatfeller]

This videos old so I’m not sure if I’ll get a reply but I figured it was worth a shot. I’ve been tasked with scanning in my all of my family’s slides and have thus far and using epson scan. Like you say - it gets the job done. My biggest frustration is that I have to change the target size and processing settings for every image individually. I can’t just scan using settings I’ve already put in and I have to go through each image in the preview and change all the settings. Am I missing something? Does VueScan have a way to change the settings for all the slides at once?

[@Makuz1988]

10:00 You have to click in the shadows for white balance, cause the (yellow) sunlight hits the street.

[@YvanHarvey]

Thank for the info, I have trying to scan on linux for a long time. just didn't know which software to use. I have an Epson v500 and been using windows 7 pro, But I am trying to get away from Microsoft as much as I can. Love my new ssd drive with Linux Mint 19.

[@HCMBOfficial]

Amazing.....Thanks a ton God bless

[@stephenward5133]

Do you have to go through this process with each individual photo?

[@ManyDoors777]

You have to do all of this for each photo that is scanned?

[@KyleMcDougall]

Yep

[@35mmlove_eric]

best colors you get with wet prints! then scan the prints. true colors!

[@alessandroveronese601]

I am new to the scanner film photography. just purchased Epson v850 pro using epson scan 2...is the film holder being scanned normal? Thank you in advance

[@hieule5132]

Good Job

[@306sisco]

Hey Kyle! Love your channel. What are you running the V500 on? Mac? PC? If mac what model and what iOS? I'm about to buy a V500 second hand and want to be sure it will be compatable. Thanks!

[@KyleMcDougall]

Thanks, Riley. So I'm currently running a Mac with 10.15. Vuescan works no problem.

[@thomaskruger2534]

Hi are you having issues with the new os Catalina? The v500 doesn't have support. Is there a backdoor?

[@KyleMcDougall]

I've been using Vuescan and it seems to be working fine. But I'm using a 4990 now, now the V500.

[@antoine.dutilh]

Very comprehensive, thank you!

[@KyleMcDougall]

Thanks!

[@WillGoodlet]

Thanks for the video - at 11:19 when you change output colour profile and de-saturate the image, this looks to me like the monitor you are using is wide gamut and the image is now just displaying correctly instead of over saturated (on the wide gamut) simply because the colour space was sRGB and the monitor is wide gamut?

[@KyleMcDougall]

Could definitely be that, Will. My monitor is Wide Gamut. Most programs will output a correct looking image regardless of the display type, but maybe VueScan doesn't?

[@Patsesson]

Cool topic! And a cool video! Did you research the "linear scan" method with VueScan, and then using ColorPerfect plugin for Photoshop for film presets and auto inverting the raw image ? That is the way i do my scans now, but i should try also the color corrections in VueScan for a change :) A video about Photoshop/Lightroom editing would be nice to see after this one.

[@KyleMcDougall]

Thanks! I have played around with color perfect, very briefly. Others have mentioned it and seem very happy with it. I may check it out again in the future.

[@Fat-totoro-cat]

I liked the vuescan result before you applied the film profile.

[@vrestall]

I have a view scanner that is almost 10 years old I just recently wanted to use it for scanning slides. I downloaded the software for vuescan they want 99.00 to use the software for film scanning. Is there any other work around?

[@josevegas6876]

Hey Kyle, great videos.. great channel...!! One question please. what make are your negative storage box and sleaves..? could you share the link to purchase them..? I hate those semy translucid sleaves from hama or other manufacturers.. Thanks and keep it up..!!

[@KyleMcDougall]

Hey Jose, I picked both items up from BH Photo. Binder: www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/140932-REG/Besfile_B_9051_Archival_Binder_With_Rings.html Sleeves: www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/43015-REG/Print_File_PF1204UB100_Archival_Storage_Page_for.html Hope this helps!

[@josevegas6876]

Ok great.. found them in UK too. Thanks a lot Kyle.

[@connoratcanada80]

Very insightful

[@KyleMcDougall]

Thanks!

[@andyvan5692]

in this video you only scan one photo at a time, can't the vuescan or epson scan software scan the whole film strip at once?, making individual files out of it?

[@KyleMcDougall]

Yes. It all depends on which scanner you're using. But for example, with my Nikon coolscan, I can batch scan an entire tray of 35mm negatives using Vuescan.