GIANT GRINDER SHOWDOWN - Sculptor 078S, Zerno Z1, Niche Duo, DF83

Review and Comparison of Zerno, Sculptor 078 078s, Niche Duo, DF83, and aftermarket burrs in the SSP MP, SSP HU, DLC, Mazzer and Italmills burrs. Which is best? What is the best premium grinder?
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Timecodes:
0:00 - Intro
1:54 - Sculptor Overview
4:04 - Duo Overview
5:27 - Df83 Overview
8:05 - Zerno Overview
9:39 - Standart
11:14 - Taste test (Sculptor)
15:47 - Niche Taste
17:22 - Df83 Taste
19:28 - Zerno Taste
21:17 - Burr Talk
27:54 - Final Thoughts
31:52 - Recommendations

[@kencoleman5686]

Congratulations Kyle - because this was a really well done review of grinders in the price range that many coffee nerds are willing to pay and are interested in - and you were able to be thorough yet concise at the same time which is hard to do. Great job.

[@erikngomez]

Can't wait for my 078 and 078s to come in especially after this video! The fact that the 078 is on your September table for roast profile speaks volumes to its taste and how well I will enjoy it being a huge purchaser of your coffee :)

[@BensCoffeeRants]

Great summary. I forget if I mentioned this earlier but on my original V1 DF83 I have modded the declumper to open it up and get coffee to flow out easier, because the burrs are so quick to grind, I think the declumper held coffee back and reground coffee leading to more fines. I noticed more clarity but less body after opening it up more, but also a lot less retention and I don't usually bother even using the bellows.

[@ryanbrown9778]

Thanks for all your reviews Kyle! You helped me pull the trigger on the Eureka Oro Mignon then eventually returning that and buying the Weber Workshops Key! I love it! I roast my own coffee on a San Fransiscan SF-1. I get my green beans from my local roaster Rocabilly Roasting Company here in Kennewick, WA.

[@Zirassi]

Thank you for testing the new SSP 83mm MPs! I have been waiting to hear about how they do in the DF83 and Niche Duo since they were released. It's hard not to feel vindicated about my grinder purchasing choices now- my generation 2 Zerno should be arriving in a few weeks! One small correction- the version of the grinder that's about to ship with blind burrs, ionizer, etc. is still just called the Zerno Z1, not the Z2 (that will probably be the big Zerno- which Vel wants to make compatible with 80mm and 83mm burrs!!!). It's actually the 100 Zernos from the first run (lacking the new features) that got the alternate naming- they are technically called "Zerno Z1 Launch Edition." When you review the Generation 2 Zerno, I would love to see you try Espresso from both the SSP 64mm Brew burrs and the Ode Gen 2 burrs. The Zerno will do espresso with both, and I'd love to get your opinion on it (especially since I ordered my Zerno with Blind Brew burrs for Espresso). If feasible, it would also be cool to hear about how the Gorilla Gear burrs compare (one Zerno owner on reddit told me they make shots quite similar to the Ode Gen 2 actually).

[@astronomical13]

Just used my new DF83 v2 for the first time yesterday so the timing on this video is perfect. Very happy with my purchase!

[@KyleRowsell]

Happy to hear it!

[@WTFA54]

Love these big review and comparison videos! Right now my morning coffee is a Tanzania Peaberry from a local roaster called Prestogeorge and my afternoon decaf is a light-medium roast Swiss Water processed Ethiopian from another roaster a block down from them called Allegheny Coffee and Tea Exchange. The Ethiopian in particular is maybe the best decaf ive tried so far locally or online!

[@varunshetty6810]

You’re one of the few reviewers who clearly talks about whether the grinder is for filter or espresso. Thank you! Great review

[@bolerkai]

Thank you for this excellent review. I just received the Sculptor 078 to replace my Niche Zero, much as I love the Niche, I only drink pour-over! Also, looking forward to some nice coffees from September! Keep up the good work on all fronts, we coffee hobbyists (aka Wierd Coffee Persons) appreciate what you do.

[@TheStaniG]

Well-presented, well edited, great delivery, and great detail as well as differentiating espresso vs filter (I only care about espresso so this helps alot!) subbed!

[@themrgumbatron]

Great review mate, love the burr discussion towards the end of your video. ✌

[@KyleRowsell]

Thanks for watching

[@bleezal]

Nice Kyle! Appreciate your insights and comments on these grinders... So I'm brewing with a DF83 V1 with HU SSP REDS and my go to beans for espresso are Malabar Gold from Josuma Coffee Company out here in Menlo Park CA. I do pour overs with lighter roasts but use a Timemore Chestnut for better control and consistency.... Thanks for what you do. And if that Ethiopian is what you say, I may need to grab a few bags!

[@coffeenerdaaron]

Great comparison video man!!! Currently on my bar I've got a Colombia Sidra from Pair Cupworks, a Frinsa Sundra Natural Anaerobic Sigarar Indonesia from Friedhats, a Diego Robelo Natural Anaerobic Costa Rica from Nomad, a Los Rodriguez Natural Caturra from Coffee Collectif, and a Nemba Burundi from Apollon's Gold.

[@HansProbs]

The morning just got a whole lot better

[@KyleRowsell]

Enjoy!

[@cade5400]

Same 😂

[@KyleRowsell]

@@cade5400 🙏

[@born2dangle7]

@@KyleRowsell curious to know what you'd pick if you had to pick between P100 with HU or two Zernos (1 with MP and one with HU)

[@ham9458]

Love the comparisons! Trying to decide on what to upgrade to from my Eureka Perfetto. I haven’t seen many mention their coffee, but I’m currently using EastPole Coffee’s (Atlanta Ga) traffic blend for my daily espresso.

[@briers9]

Great review. 078s, I have one on order. I am looking forward to aftermarket burrs when they are ready, with alignment I'm sure it will be the best bang for buck.

[@therealmekkor8643]

My wife accidentally broke our 1zpresso K ultra. To be fair to her it was having some troubles switching sizes but she switched sizes mid grind and it just locked up. All said and done the threading was stripped. I put down on the Time More Sculptor 078S and I’ve been watching every review to make sure it was a good investment. She likes pour over in a porous ceramic filter, I like black straight espresso or lungo shots. Thank you for your comparisons, I feel better about my choice. I don’t think I’ll ever find a perfect multi-purpose grinder. But I’ll settle for getting good enough for both of us.

[@rvagalaxy7233]

Perfect timing! Swapping my entire coffee bar and starting with Fellow Stagg kettle, replacing Vario W grinder. Drinking Blanchards Coffee Richmond VA Kenyan Kiri AA. Fantastic local roaster. Can’t wait to try September!

[@roseheda8170]

I‘m in the process of finally upgrading my home coffee set up from a Nespresso machine to the real deal, and have found your comparison and review videos to be incredibly valuable. I have learned so much about the different features to look for, and now have a better idea what I want and how much I will need to spend. So, thank you! To answer your question, I would undoubtedly buy the Niche if I didn’t have to pay import tax on it (19% here in Germany). Which means that I’m currently leaning towards the DF64 or 83.

[@t0bistr]

hey, hast du dich schon für eine Mühle entschieden? Bin kurz davor mir die 83v2 zu holen. Will damit Espresso und Café Creme mit sämtlichen Röstgraden versuchen. Hast du da vllt schon Erfahrungen machen können, ob das gut funktioniert? Liebe Grüße aus Nürnberg

[@flamehead213]

I have 2 DF83s one dedicated for espresso (SSP HU) and the second one dedicated for pour over with standard burrs. I was hoping to get a review for the SSP cast burrs before buying them for my second one , but I guess I’m going to have to just hit the plunge and order them 😅. Great video man!

[@barbsdee3831]

Hi I’m from the uk and just ordered a Wilfa Uniform grinder. I hope I’m not going to regret it after watching your video 🤦🏼‍♀️ I live in the UK, my son got me onto grinding beans, so much better than the instant most of us Brits drink! But now after 2 years I have learnt I can get so much more from my coffee beans if I upgrade to a better grinder. I usually buy my beans online from ‘rave’ and recently from ‘Square mile’ owned partly by James Hoffman (my knowledge on brewing coffee gained from his KZbin channel) I use a clever dripper and although this takes a little longer that putting a teaspoon of coffee from a jar into a mug and pouring over hot water, I love my morning ritual and the coffee. I’ve recently started watching your channel so thank you for all the tips, advice and reviews 👍🏼

[@noxnext]

That‘s funny. I wanted better coffee and just got my Niche Zero delivered from the UK two days ago. Just loving it so far! I was a bit jealous because for people living in the UK, the Niche only would have cost me £449,-. Now, with shipping, customs and taxes I paid a total amount of around €707,-. 🙈

[@arianyazdannik968]

Amazing video Kyle. Can't wait for Zerno full review. And for coffee I rocked milky cake today from DAK.

[@KyleRowsell]

Right on! Enjoy, and thanks as always!

[@conoryoutubing]

Awesome Job Kyle. When you transitioned to talking about the burrs, my first. thought was: "No... stay focused on the grinders, talk about workflow, burrs could be another video... " Then you proceeded to talk about the performance of those burrs in the grinders and the impact of tolerance / alignment that varies in the grinders. Seriously, we'll done. Haven't seem much content like that and very much appreciate how you went about it. Tis why you're up there in front of the camera and I'm just some dude in front of a keyboard. Very much looking forward the Zerno Z1v1 vs Z1v2 comparison. Hopefully you'll get your hands on the three pre-breakers and can compare their impacts on the cup. Oh and the noise differential given the gearbox tweaks. Keep up the great work mate!

[@KyleRowsell]

Appreciate that! All the best!

[@MistaDJ2532]

Thank you for the video, Kyle! Currently sipping on the espresso blend from Bluebeard coffee roasters from Tacoma WA state, USA!

[@NoZenith]

Pulling a shot with my need zero and Breville Bambino plus so I'm solidly in the mid / entry level class but still appreciate the stuff. Your straightway take actually helped remind me that I'm already so far above everything entry level by comparing things to a Niche Zero and there's always gong to be something else coming out... so I went for it. Thanks

[@full_metal2452]

Niche zero is a $550-$700 grinder😂 This is entry to mid?

[@marcozammit9608]

Awesome review video! I think you nailed it highlighting how important the grinder-burr combo is with the Zerno. Question, are you still using your P100 and if so have your thoughts on it as an end game grinder still hold?

[@masika6867]

Thank you Kyle! I would love to see how these stack up in a blind taste test versus some of the premium but significantly cheaper hand grinders (Commadante, 1zpresso). Feels like reviews tend to avoid directly comparing electric to hand grinders but price, especially these days, is not something to totally ignore especially if an X-pro at 130 USD could match or be like 90% the quality of these 600-1 grand grinders.

[@emmanuelvanderschelden9474]

Oh yes! I would pay for a direct comparison like this!

[@bluemystic7501]

Let me guess, you want to hear that your cheap hand grinder gives you similar results to something expensive and electric, right? lol It probably does.

[@masika6867]

@@bluemystic7501 I backed the 064s and have the VS3. But it would be awesome to be able to recommend hand grinders to friends and family instead of the usual reddit / youtube content that pretends that 400 dollars is “budget friendly” for all people. Why the aggression? You good?

[@frederickateng3779]

here are some information if you curious as i used EK43 - the 3 grand usd - top of food chain flat burr grinder comandante (300ish usd) and Q2 7 axis version (99usd), similar bur with x-pro, but with smaller size if u used them for filter at same grind size, all of them have very similar complexity, clarity, and aroma, i can said, its 99% similar, even pro wont be able to know which is which on blind cup if u use them for espresso.... well its another story and zp6... well... its topple all of above

[@kencoleman5686]

@@frederickateng3779 not clear what you are trying to say about the ZP6. It is specifically designed for pour-overs.

[@gandkaidos]

This is exactly the content I’ve been looking for! Moving on from a niche zero and looking for a grinder to pair with a de1 pro. Very helpful!

[@KyleRowsell]

Glad I could help!

[@juzzadood4419]

Exactly same for me! Moving from the Niche Zero, stuck between the Duo/DF83+SSP MP or Zerno. Leaning towards Zerno, just seems prettier with better workflow.

[@JonFairhurst]

A bit loud though. Might it be worth it to save for an Option-O Lagom P???

[@BensCoffeeRants]

​@@JonFairhurst Gearbox is supposedly a bit quieter on the 2nd batch of Zernos coming out soon, I'll compare with my P64 which has the nicest sounding motor of all my grinders I've tried.

[@gandkaidos]

@@juzzadood4419 I intend to go with the zerno. If budget wasn’t an issue, Weber sg1 would be the choice, but that’s way, way into diminishing returns. If you’re moving from a ~600 dollar grinder to a sub 2k grinder, I think Zerno is the move. Especially that it holds up or beats bigger burrs. Maybe in 4-5 years there will be a zerno z2 with big burr energy that the wife will get behind ;)

[@TomAmbar]

Great video, thanks Kyle! And I'm currently drinking a coffee from Ethiopia's Worka Wuri, with a very special processing method - Anaerobic Natural, with strawberries (!) in the fermentation barrel, roasted by Nahat.

[@mikni4069]

This got to show the importance of alignment. Prebreakers definitely makes a difference, I once swapped on the EK43. The old that was a feeder and didn’t do much of breaking and then to a Titus, this made a rather noticeable improvement on the quality of the coffee. I know Frank of Titus had a focus on this for some years. And even Mahlkönig went from feeder to prebreaker. I personally think Timemore missed out on this, as they could have made a prebreaker rather then just a feeder in their grinders I’m very convinced it would have improved on especially the multipurpose burrs. Hopefully this will come in some later versions. The thing about price being equal. Once you toss third part in the other, do depend on the country that you live in. Where I live the last batch would have been around €1600 the Niche Duo with SSP would be around €1285 and DF83 + SSP €1055. However once it get in full production I’ll bet on it ends near the €1900 of P64 & Orbit with SSP, making thirdpart options definitely a cheaper option. For North Americans yes it definitely isn’t worth it.

[@mikni4069]

@@Zirassi if you noticed I wrote in Euros and I specifically mentioned my location, this typically means that poster include all other expenses, meaning shipping, import duties, handling fee and VAT. €1900 with a resale price of $1400 would not really be all thar far off as shipping of such heavy items is typically an expensive affair, typically around $150-200. In lower VAT countries like Germany it might get €100-200 below that. What ever price is in US is those rather irrelevant. There reasons why p64 is also around the €1800-1900 imported, and why the Orbit is sold in Europe at a similar amount, a grinder also around $1400 in the US. You can only use street prices in US if you live in the US, many people dos not. This means this grinders will stop being all that affordable. Why you don’t really see tons of these grinders here, because after all is done prices is easily added with 30% on top! So Europeans should expect it to end around €1800-1900 depending on location and what burrs they choose it to come stock with. This makes it a noticeable step up in price comparison to DF83 and Niche Duo with SSP burrs.

[@Zirassi]

@@mikni4069 Oh when you said "last batch" did you mean the launch edition grinders that went for 1100 with SSP burrs? I thought you meant the most recent 3rd batch of orders they took, which IIRC were priced at $1399. Thus, I thought you were implying that Zerno were going to raise their prices further. If you say $1399 before options and shipping means 1900 euros for you, I believe you. This was simply a misunderstanding it appears.

[@Ajom1795]

Enjoyed the comparisons while drinking a cap made with the line street blend from Broadsheet coffee roasters

[@KyleRowsell]

Enjoy!

[@chrislange1354]

So excited about this video!

[@KyleRowsell]

Enjoy!

[@LegoDude389]

sup Kyle. Great video. I am drinking Caffe Lusso Ethiopia Sidama. Highly recommend this roaster from Redmond Wa. I currently have the Niche Zero and I am expecting to receive the 078S by the end of the year from the Kickstarter campaign. I am having second thoughts on the 078S though based on the insane amount of seasoning required and some of the workflow issues people are having. Thank you for taking the time to read the comments and for putting this video together. It will help me make a decision (hopefully)

[@annoniem1177]

Thanks for the great review, well done! To my understanding the difference between the DF83 v1 and v2 was only the addition of a plasma generator to the latter. You mentioned tighter tolerances as a v2 improvement. It would be interesting to learn more about this.

[@philyb3883]

I have a DF83 V1 and I will say, it was a bit messy but after adding a plasma generator kit to it, it's WAY better. I don't even need to RDT anymore.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

I haven't heard of tolerances being improved on the DF83 v2, but it's possible. I believe they changed the declumper, included metal cup, as well for the v2 which is nice, but I'm enjoying my V1 DF83, I did mod the declumper and with it more opened up I actually think it may be one of my neatest grinders. It grinds fast and comes out in a neat pile mostly without as much static as my other grinders for some reason!

[@annoniem1177]

@@BensCoffeeRants Interesting and thanks for your reply, are you considering to add the plasma generator upgrade?

[@BensCoffeeRants]

@@annoniem1177 no point for me. Installation doesn't look like fun and I don't think mine needs it.

[@pdxrunner]

Beans are September Coffee Subscription and Atlas Subscription. Fill in Water Ave. I love how the 64mm are described as Small Burrs, vs 1 year ago. I had your DF64E ,after months of use, there is very little static and definitely better shots. I added a Plug-in Negative Ion Air Purifier. There is now almost no coffee "mess" outside the doser.

[@KyleRowsell]

Enjoy!

[@stillnessnmindelaine8810]

I in my 3d month of DF83 v2 from Joe Kolb’s espresso outlet. It’s been exceptional. Never more than .2 mg. Usually 0.1 to 0 retention. This has been its performance out of the box. I’m strictly espresso and using it stock. Could not be happier!

[@KyleRowsell]

Happy to hear it

[@christopherschmitz1804]

I own a Bentwood V63 which will give most of those grinders a run (but much more expensive). It also uses a pre-breaker so there is obviously something to the concept. I backed the 78s on KS and deliberately went with it, as I want the stepless settings. Will upgrade it to Turbo burrs once they become available. And then cup it against the BV63. Will be interesting to see where this will lead me.

[@cpakkie]

Today I’m drinking: Lilo Coffee Roasters, Osaka, Japan Region: Finca Genesis, Las Flores, Santa Barbara, Honduras Process: Honey Anaerobic Variety: Paraneima Got this from the Kumquat Coffee subscription and it’s great.

[@alexgj3956]

Today I was drinking a Washed Pacamara from Tanzania!! Grown in Acacia Hills by Leon Christianakis and roasted By Nomad. I brew'd this coffee using a Kalita 185 with Flat Fast filters by Sibarist at the morning and in the evening I used a v60 with Fast Cone filters, also by Sibarist, made in Spain!!

[@Tamimzzz]

Thanks, Kyle. I appreciate your valuable thoughts.

[@KyleRowsell]

No worries!

[@caffeinated_slacker]

I’ve been waiting for this one. Excited about the Zerno Z1

[@KyleRowsell]

Hopefully this holds you over until the full review

[@caffeinated_slacker]

@@KyleRowsell I’ll be getting my Zerno in August, the wait is killing me. Looking forward to your full review with the V2 :)

[@jacquesolivierv]

Great video as usual !

[@KyleRowsell]

Thank you

[@coenwouters6808]

Thanks Kyle, still waiting on my 078s (launch day price) I hope it will be here before winter :) Granted there are some quirks with the sculptor worklfow, I did it mostly for the looks, as the zerno is oyt of my budget. And any remaining budget will be spend on beans and maybe a new espresso machine in the future :)

[@KyleRowsell]

Totally fair. I think you’ll be happy!

[@taejaskudva2543]

I'm getting the 78S as well. I feel like people are a little down on it because of sewing machine comparisons, but since I personally think it looks like a hair dryer, I'm much happier with it... 😂

[@joshk528]

Liked and subbed! This is the content we love!

[@KyleRowsell]

Thanks, and I appreciate it 🙏

[@path72]

Very useful review. Top!

[@KyleRowsell]

Glad it was helpful!

[@Deighvid.]

Such a great video!

[@arendhav]

This afternoon, I am enjoying Boundary Roasting Co.'s "Fresh Fields" coffee. It's a washed Ethiopian from the Kaffa Bitta region . It has nice notes of peach and vanilla ice cream.

[@michaelm6522]

Another banger! Thanks Kyle

[@KyleRowsell]

Appreciate it!

[@jamousg]

hey @Kyle well done and thanks for the review! Question, is the 078s filter that much less enjoyable than the 078?

[@VarmDild]

Can't wait for my 078s which I got at the first Kickstarter price, and which will ship "late july" 🤩 Your video showed me, that I made the best choice, since I want a multi purpose grinder, drink light roasted filter coffee and light/medium espresso, and won't spend more than 500 $ on a grinder 😊.

[@KyleRowsell]

Glad this helped!

[@NubRusty]

I'm waiting on my 078S. Can't wait to put it next to my Niche zero! I've now had my conical for almost a year and can't wait for those flat burrs

[@KyleRowsell]

I trust you’ll enjoy it.

[@imstigma]

Amazing video as always Kyle. Thanks! Just ran out of your Pink Lemonade so onto a Barocco Centrale

[@KyleRowsell]

Very nice!

[@calvincheung3955]

Hey Kyle! Another solid video. Succinct and fun. I’m currently running an aligned Vario with steel burrs doing primarily filter. I’m considering the zerno and am wondering if it’s a considerable jump or a small one. The zerno had a lot of amazing things about it but I’m curious mainly for the grind quality. I’d consider the SSP unimodal brew burrs. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance!

[@classicrockonly]

If money wasn't an option and I had to pick from the table, I'd probably pick the Zerno. I just bought a DF64V and am very happy with it though. Today I have a City+ natural Brazil Red Catui from Burman Coffee that I roasted on the BocaBoca250 roaster, made on the Flair 58. I also have a Sulawesi honey process Gowa from Sweet Marias that I roasted to City. Last time it had an interesting apple flavor to it. Can't wait to try it again tomorrow as I changed how I roasted it, and it's my first time trying it with my DF64V and better water

[@thecoffee2820]

Bagus Alat Mesin Kopi nya Terima kasih Sharing nya 👍

[@jdupuis4829]

Just got a big order from Rogue Wave. I had their coffee from Thailand this morning and it was excellent

[@KyleRowsell]

Enjoy!

[@Dogdrulezz]

Espresso Outlet is the 🐝 knees!! I had a great experience ordering my DF64V with them

[@KyleRowsell]

That's awesome! Love them

[@Foolsauce]

Nice video! Very interesting watch as someone who had a hard time choosing between the 078s and the DF83. Did you end up seasoning the new set of 078s burrs too to confirm that seasoning would fix the issues or not? Understandable if you didn't. Really looking forward to getting mine (someday, lol)!

[@bharatagarwal33]

Great video !

[@KyleRowsell]

Thanks!

[@jonathanp4772]

I would have loved a comparison of the 64mm and 83mm SSP Multipurpose burrs in the df64/83v1. IMO this would allow a comparison between the burrs that goes beyond speculation. Loved the video though ❤

[@KyleRowsell]

Hey! I had the 64mm burrs in the df64 and the 83! Sorry if I wasn’t clear on that. In a side by side I preferred the 83mm if that isn’t obvious. But my point was that the grinder body does play a part here - and the zerno did take an advantage for me.

[@jonathanp4772]

@@KyleRowsell Thanks for your response! Good to know that you thought of everything. No further questions then! :D

[@johnvanderzwet3615]

Just finished the Genji Challa and awaiting for July subscription from September ❤

[@KyleRowsell]

Some tasty Central America features this month!

[@BenjaminSweetnam]

Today im drinking Portal II from Finca Yamana in Huila columbia and is an anaerobic natural, roasted by common folk on the Mornington peninsula. Tasting notes are passionfruit, ginger snap and mango sorbet. I'm loving it.

[@greeneyedcatwink]

Love your videos! I've learned so much. I mostly like coffee. I found a great little company called Share coffee. Bought at local store, then found them on net and get a subscription now. (Just a loyal customer, no affiliation.). Highly recommend them! Got their espresso for my son and he and his Italian girlfriend love this one.

[@KyleRowsell]

Enjoy! And thanks for the kind words

[@iamjerney]

Marathon of a video. Always here for a zerno video though.

[@KyleRowsell]

Agreed 🫡

[@kevinmarinus4752]

Fantastic systematic comparison

[@KyleRowsell]

Thank you!

[@MSUGoGreen09]

Great video, very helpful information. Super curious if you think it is worth upgrading from a Baratza Virtuoso to the Sculptor for someone who only does filter coffee and is looking to make better pour overs? Thanks!

[@geraintlyons]

Hi Kyle, I appreciate your videos and your effort. I wanted to share my experience with the Timemore 078s that I got a week ago. I upgraded from the Breville Smart Pro and I use the 078s for filter coffee only. I know it's not the best option for filter, but I wanted to be ready for the future. I have another grinder for espresso, but it might break down someday. Then I'll use the 078s for both. I'm still not sure if I made the right choice, but I think the 078s is good for filter and it will get better with time. I also heard that they might sell the turbos separately later. If that happens and I decide to never use it for espresso, I might get the turbos for the 078s. So, I'm happy with my purchase. Thanks again for your helpful videos and hard work.

[@JT-zy2ft]

78s is more for espresso while the 78 is filter only. Burr geometry is very different between the two. Lance has a detailed video on both.

[@markpalmos]

Ive pre-ordered the 078s as I do 90% espresso and then do filter, and aeropress sometimes... also the decent DE-1 espresso machine with the filter v3 basket, you need a grinder that can go coarse enough, 078s can...

[@yesthatenzo]

Had a Kenya Giakanja Nyeri, duet, roasted by myself hehe. Thanks for this vid, been excited for it!

[@KyleRowsell]

Thanks for watching!

[@shawnewaltonify]

Yes, Yes, Yes! Exceptional composition. Review perfection.

[@KyleRowsell]

Thank you

[@damianhbk1]

Thank you Kyle! 🙏 "The" video/upload I've been needing. I appreciate the time and effort you put into making these! I may have to watch it a few more times before making my final decision! I roast my own beans on a sample roaster. Currently roasting El Salvador Cerro Las Ranas Honey Processed, light to medium! Cheers! ☕

[@mateherbay2289]

Todays coffee for me is an El Salvador anaerob natural, from Hungarian specialty roaster Impresso. Very nice plum and red wine notes in V60.

[@citizenkatsphynx]

I love my Niche duo. Got it when it first came out. Prior to that I had df83 and it broke and I was taking it apart every week due to clogging. While waiting for nicks duo, I got the eureka magnifico- it is easy and nice. I hope to upgrade someday to Weber E3!

[@dankuhlwein2752]

Huge Fan of yours! Thanks for all the great content and attention to detail. In a previous video I saw you received the sk40 from Turin. Curious if you have used it at all and have any initial thoughts. Thanks

[@KyleRowsell]

I have and will feature it in the future

[@cs5250]

I’m a us backer waiting for my 78s to show up next year. While I wait I’m drinking a mix of Ethiopian + Honduras beans that I roast myself. I love to put a dime sized dot of olive oil in the cup before brewing the espresso. Glad to hear that the 078s is a capable all arounder. I mostly do espresso so it will fit my life. Now I just need the damn thing to arrive.

[@littledevilz]

Great video Kyle! Can’t wait for the 078s to show up and hopefully by then the turbo burrs are available separately.

[@KyleRowsell]

That would be neat

[@felixaltenbuchinger2607]

Exactly the same here.

[@davidfrankel9267]

He gets a lot of contenders a great run down on this. Great take on a confusing shopping purchase.

[@klizzt]

Well. We have a Mignon Single Dose next to our espresso machine which is doing a fine job but really struggles with its chute clogging up (i have to use the bellows to keep the grounds moving while grinding). So i was checking out the Timemore 078S while the KS was running. But in the end I've come to work around the quirks of our grinder (if i ever get around to it i might contact the dealer regarding the clogging chute) and cant justify replacing it. If i had to get a new one though, thatd be it

[@AlexanderLabial]

Today I’m drinking the Nolberto espresso roast profile from CoffeeCollective. The coffee is a Java (Natural), and is grown at El Noble in Caranavi (Bolivia) ☕️

[@tt11qj]

Great video, Kyle! Do you think the Vario+ is still worth considering relative to these options?

[@GurgenPB2]

Hello Kyle. Love your videos. Any reason the Kafatek offerings aren’t included?

[@anjalirehan7315]

Great review! How would you compare the taste and texture of espresso between the Niche Duo and the DF83 in stock form - Mazzer burrs vs ItalMil burrs - 530 rpms vs 1400 rpms. Look forward to your response. Thanks.

[@JohnSmith-vx5id]

Great question. Your thoughts Kyle?

[@ksubswithnovideos-fm8el]

I would like to know too!

[@JohnSmith-vx5id]

@@ksubswithnovideos-fm8el I don’t think Kyle knows 😂

[@nicholasgalbraith6470]

Pulling September's July susubscription offerings this morning. Wife loves the Janja Hill and I'm partial to the Genji Challa

[@KyleRowsell]

The June sub! Very nice, enjoy it!

[@taejaskudva2543]

You (and Lance) helped me settle on a K Plus as my literal daily driver, largely because I wanted something small and quiet to make pourovers at work instead of feeling sheepish about bringing my Encore from home and then not having a grinder on the weekends because I didn't want to lug the thing around. I love my K Plus. I finally decided to dip my toes into espresso (well, really a big cannonball jump as I purchased a machine and a 78s), but I'm curious, will the 78s be as good as/better than my K Plus or a Baratza Encore for filter? I'm much more likely to be making a pot of coffee for company than espresso (especially as I currently have zero experience, am not confident about the time frame for my learning curve, and none of my setup has even arrived...). The K Plus is easy to carry back and forth, but during the school year I'd like to just leave it at work. Or maybe the question I am really asking: can I safely give my Encore to my mother-in-law as the 78s should be fine for pots of coffee? Given your comments about the Timemore needing seasoning, would I be better off while learning to just use the K Plus, even if its range for dialing in isn't ideal, because of the flavor issues?

[@Eklektik190]

MPs on the Zerno vs the 078 for filter goes to the 078 for you but are the miles apart or? I want to do mainly modern espresso with the Zerno and the MPs but I will definitely be using it for filter as well.

[@jiaxuanwu8234]

I like this video very much and hope you make more similar videos😁😁😁

[@notme123123]

I really liked this video, but I feel like I’m even further away from making the call to buy a new grinder. If I could make a suggestion, could you make a table showing your rating (maybe 1-5 stars) for each grinder for espresso vs filter and medium/dark roast vs light. That would help.

[@yakofdez4698]

Thank you for comparison Kyle. But if the 078S suffered from than channeling issues before seasoning the burrs it would've been nice that you mentioned in your review a few months ago. Now I wonder if the 064S has the same issue. Also the usable range for espresso seems a bit to narrow, unfortunately. I mean, how, many number are there on the wheel? 16? Being able to use only 1 or below for espresso is a bit disappointing, though you didn't mention how much range you have with the 064S. Thanks again for this comparison.

[@XFallxOfxDarknessX]

Thanks for this, I ended up buying the 78s due to light roasts being so annoying to grind with my JX-Pro so it's good to see that it was a good choice for that. Know it's been a while since you've reviewed it but do you reckon it's a noticeable jump from the JX-Pro to the 78s for espresso taste?

[@BensCoffeeRants]

I think you'll likely see an good improvement.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

2:38 The Timemore's flat / turbo burrs are supposed to be designed or made by "GrindLabs" I believe, but I think people suspect that's just what they're calling their burr division maybe in order to seem like they used a more experienced burr making company for these burrs :D

[@lilteyang]

Niche mob arriving any second now😂 Great review, Kyle~ You just made my night a whole lot better❤

[@KyleRowsell]

Ha why’s that? I said it’s good!

[@lilteyang]

@@KyleRowsell …but you didn't say it's the best😏 j/k

[@KyleRowsell]

@@lilteyang haha it’s not! But it’s very good in many ways

[@BensCoffeeRants]

@@KyleRowsell Does it kill the Niche (Zero) though? :D

[@TheDennzio]

Niche Zero works for everything especially espresso unless one is nit picking. Actually I use an Encore for filter coffee but only because I had it first and it's so convenient

[@NoZenith]

I'm trying Panther Coffee 1985 Espresso... not sure I'm loving it. I went back to my older coffee for a few days to see if it was too fresh but the crema was kind of crust like and broke apart?

[@David-wh7rm]

Great review video! Looking forward to the Zerno review and to see how it compares to the P64. Also rather selfishly I'd be interested to hear how the flat burr Zerno or P64 compare to the 48mm Obsydian conical burrs in the Lagom Mini, but I appreciate this probably doesn't fit into a Zerno review.

[@KyleRowsell]

You and me both! And yeah, likely not. But I’d say the lagom holds its own and you shouldn’t feel the fomo.

[@David-wh7rm]

@@KyleRowsell that's the thing, fomo and is it worth the extra chunk of cash. Sounding like maybe it's not... Thanks!

[@KyleRowsell]

@@David-wh7rm watch my disclaimer at the end if you haven’t. Please put money where most important first

[@David-wh7rm]

@@KyleRowsell understood, will do. Many thanks 🙏

[@DigitalicaEG]

My bean of the day is from a local roaster here in Brussels called “Wide Awake”, they make this Brazilian bean medium dark roast that goes amazingly well with oat milk to make a delightful cappuccino.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

14:00 For Timemore078s I don't think any reviewers really made it seem like a big deal about the espresso grind adjustment range, but a lot of people seemed really concerned that it was too small for espresso dialing in initially. I think somewhere on Facebook or something, someone from Timemore mentioned that the 078s has much smaller tics, where each small tic point represented like 5microns of burr movement (smaller than a red blood cell). However on the filter oriented 078 body the movement is a little larger like 15 microns I believe (I forget the details). So when all the reviewers were mentioning dialing in range for espresso wasn't that big, but using 078s burrs in a 078 body, I'm like no Duh, it's not the 'real' grinder. It's very close / similar I'm sure but that's one thing they're tweaking so it's more espresso oriented, which makes sense. I'm hoping I can swap in the 078 burrs into the 078s body eventually without any issues, or SSP will make some Weber Core or Ultra style burrs in 78mm size for it! (I'm the guy that told you to lend a 078 to Hansung from SSP for getting the measurements needed and testing!).

[@jamousg]

Yes that is true. However my main concern with the 078s is channeling on espresso. Charlie and Our Coffee Shelter mentioned that even after they had put in many KGs they are still facing channeling. It may be due to the burs being too sharp, I am not sure. But it is a valid issue.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

@@jamousg it worked better at lower R.P.M. I believe for him which is weird but at least there's that until someone else makes better burrs or they get seasoned. No other reviews mentioned it so might be a one off case and something was wrong with his grinder (which isn't a good sign either!) or it just needed more seasoning as Kyle discovered. But if there's such a difference pre and post seasoning manufacturers. Really need to start pre seasoning their burrs. Gorilla gear does this with their burrs.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

@@jamousg oh I didn't realize our coffee shelter also mentioned channeling? I'll have to find that one, it was a video?

[@jamousg]

@@BensCoffeeRants I replied to you, but for some reason KZbin is deleting my comment.

[@dvs3308]

Really happy with this great review!! I'm doubting between the DF83, the DF64V and the Timemore 078S. I usually make espresso with my LaPavoni Professional but also filter now and then in a Moccamaster. Also I use V60 but I use a hand grinder for that. I buy freshly roasted beans (medium roasted, 100% Arabica Pulped Natural) @Kyle: How do you see the DF64V with DLC burrs or evt. Lab Sweet compared with the 078S or DF83?

[@BensCoffeeRants]

All good choices. We went from having like no good single dose low retention grinders for home espresso to having WAY TOO many options and more coming out everyday it seems! :D I think we have the Niche Zero and DF64 series grinders to thank for that.

[@dvs3308]

@@BensCoffeeRants Thanks! I agree, all good choices. Which makes it so hard to choose 😉

[@IICor517azr]

Thanks sir. Good bit of information here. Blessings on September venture. I roast my own @sweetmarias typically go for Ethiopian naturals, grind with @1Zpresso K-Plus, brew with Stagg-x or Bloom. Would high uniform or bi-modal profiles be preferred for filter only?

[@iliask.ariston1856]

Hi Kyle thanks for the great content. I purchased a 078 on the kickstarter some months back. I recently got a Cafelat Robot and have been enjoying the espresso workflow. Do you think the 078 will be capable of grinding for turbo shots?

[@KyleRowsell]

Maybe, it’s possible. Hard to say but I think the added depth of the puck should prove to help with this

[@iwouldpayattention]

Did the usability of the Niche change once the SSP MPs were installed? Did you check if the RPM changed (with say slow-mo video) or even if the noise level changed? I’m planning on going for that build but worried as it voids the warranty.