TIMEMORE SCULPTOR REVIEW: 064, 064s, 078, 078s

[@LanceHedrick]

Hope you all enjoyed! 2 months, about 35kg of coffee ground, hundreds of espressos and filters, and more, and it is here. I hope you enjoy it! Also, I forgot to note that sometimes, the 064s and 078s would make slightly clumpy grounds not found in other grinders. It wasn't anything WDT couldn't handle, but still should be noted. I am kicking myself for not mentioning it. Hope the video was helpful! Any questions in the comments! Cheers

[@Phil_OG]

Did you also put some dark roasted coffee through them? I wonder if retention could be worse if a darker coffee is used.

[@LanceHedrick]

@@Phil_OGyes and it was minimal

[@peshmerge44]

so for someone who only wants to drink espresso the 078s is gucci?

[@Huevoos]

For someone who will brew both espresso and filter. Would you recommend the O78s? Or just the O78 and getting a different grinder for espresso?

[@danhcu]

I keep my Niche after your review the 78S. Thank Lance👍

[@EYYQCiHTfAGTV7O96y]

Thank you, Lance! One quick thing to note: many of us listen to your videos as we’re vision impaired, out and about etc. So replacing “this one” “that one” with short names would go a long ways. Keep up the awesome work! 🎉

[@LanceHedrick]

Oh so sorry! That's a great point. I'll do better

[@EYYQCiHTfAGTV7O96y]

@@LanceHedrick thanks my man!

[@RichardTongeman]

I tend to listen to KZbin videos more than watch them also, so I can get on with chores

[@baselsalam]

Even thought I can see, I often got confused because some of these were the same color and indistinguishable on video. I actually need to go back and watch a few parts because I wasn't sure which of the two 078 grinders he meant.

[@catacgc]

And which one did he meant? I still cannot tell 😂

[@SuperDogWannabe]

I dont understand 99% of this as a beginner, but I appreciate your attention to detail! Makes it easier to navigate purchasing

[@CoffeeNo0b0514]

I actually like the opaque hoppers so much more. Makes the device look more seamless overall because it's more color matched from top to bottom. Both look fine though

[@LanceHedrick]

That's great! I just feel like it looks... odd. lol

[@CoffeeNo0b0514]

@@LanceHedrick we all have our stylistic preferences, and there isn't anything wrong with that!

[@barjee8965]

@@LanceHedrick Same here, hopefully someone on etsy will make clear ones lol

[@bprayogo2000]

“This is giving the coffes full potential” thats enough for me to be really confident getting the 078s and ignore other overprice sd grinders out there 🎉

[@KelvinWong-sd2ik]

Did u hear his recommendation at the end?

[@bprayogo2000]

I did. Did you read my comment😛 hearing him said that Im confident to back the 078s. And i prefer vertically mounted flatburr for single dosing. And did you watch about the retention? 🎉

[@meph137]

Yeh I’m a bit confused with those two comments. They seem contradictory

[@tagheuer02]

@@meph137 lots of things he said are contradictory.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

He said DF83 with SSP burrs but that's more $$ 83mm SSP burrs are pricey. 078s seems like a great value. Sure the 078 with it's brew optimized burr is going to be better for pour overs most likely but then you sacrafice the ability to brew espresso on the grinder (until you swap burrs which doesn't seem toooo difficult). 078s for Pour over is going to be a lot better than using a Niche Zero, it's kinda sad I see people saying they're cancelling their Timemore 078s FOR A NICHE ZERO! :O Stock DF83 and Niche DUO are some competitors to the 078 models not sure why niche ZERO was included at all besides being another cute nice looking easy to use grinder and It's still more expensive!

[@arthurskudra50]

For those still debating whether to get the 064s vs 078s, see Kyle Rowsell's very thorough youtube review. I'm sticking with backing the 078S as an all around filter and espresso grinder. If I'm not happy with the burr choice, I'm sure the market will offer alternate burr options, I wouldn't let a few screws deter anyone from swapping them out. If you have the budget, getting a stepless 78mm grinder this good for the price is a no-brainer IMHO.

[@greghazell4214]

I wouldn’t put too much stock into his views as his videos are basically paid advertisements

[@arthurskudra50]

@@greghazell4214 and honestly who isn’t biased in some way these days, lance included? I find that Kyle strikes a good balance, provides a fair viewpoint and gives constructive criticism where it’s due.

[@classicrockonly]

For me, if I’m not happy with the pour over results I’ll save up and get an Ode 2 to have alongside the 078s. The 078s sounds like it will offer what I’m looking for. I want more clarity in my light roast espressos

[@xenodrake4008]

Why not get the 078 instead wich seems exceptional and then something like opus for espresso?​@@classicrockonly

[@classicrockonly]

@@xenodrake4008 that would be a dream. But I don’t have counter space or money, for one. I went with the DF64V and haven’t been happier with a coffee grinder. I’ve had both great espressos and pour overs with the stock burrs :) and retention is incredibly low

[@franksimms6311]

Some people have dismissed the 078s because Lance said he prefers the 0de Gen 2 burrs to the 078s for filter coffee. I think that dismissal is unfair to the 078s. The Ode Gen 2 is a filter oriented grinder and considered one of the best for filter anywhere near the price. Considering that the 078s expresso oriented burrs come in close is outstanding! Kyle Rowsell even prefered the 078s burrs to the Ode Gen 2 burrs for filtered coffee!

[@TheRockyBalboa100]

Exactly

[@Tobyjrn6297]

Yeah i hadn't considered this. Excellent point

[@davidfrankel9267]

The title of this review does not do the content justice. A lot more about Ode 2 comparisons than I thought. Very Helpful. Thanks.

[@patriciusottilius9819]

My 078s arrived and I just aligned it after doing the marker test. I also moved the pin 3 holes counterclockwise for the new zero point. After watching a video from Hoons's Coffee, where he aligned the DF64 simply by changing the orientation of the burrs, I did the same thing with my 078s, although the burrs are only hold by 2 screws. This worked well for the outer and the inner burr and I didnt need to use aluminium foil, so maybe I was just lucky or the burrs were mounted with wrong orientation (chance by 50% because of 2 screws). Another thing I took from Hoon's video is to spin the outer burr by hand. To achieve that you have to remove the spring from the shaft, so that the burrs can touch and than carefully spin the outer burr with the handle. By doing that you can save the whole (re-)assembly process and the aligning process is simplified. Unfortunately I'm not 100% sure if spinning the burr by hand leads to the same result of the marker test when compared to the marker test with a fully assembled 078s. What do you think?

[@Phil_OG]

I think it doesn't matter. The real question is how the alignment is while it's grinding

[@scheissami]

Thanks for making the effort to get this out for us to make decisions about our order before the KS window closes, very much appreciated. I chose 78s as I drink 50/50 filter and espresso, primarily light roast. If I had to pick a preference at gunpoint, it would be filter coffee. But, I have a DE1 and I’d like to explore the options available to me with profiles oriented to large flat burrs and my Niche isn’t great for that. I suppose my thought is that I can see how I like the espresso/profiles with the 78s; if I do, keep it and consider getting a 78 dedicated for filter (if I think there is room for improvement over the 78s, as you obviously do). If I don’t fancy the espresso with the 78s, buy the Turbo burrs (when available, or another aftermarket set if/once they become available) and swap the burrs. Then I’m only out the cost of a burr set. Don’t think I can justify two additional grinders at this point, though I suppose I could sell the Niche and get both 78/78s…

[@danielchin8073]

Thanks for spending the time to make this for us. I know it's a ton of work. It was great for Emilee to make an appearance too, she's super cool.

[@LanceHedrick]

thank you! And yes- she rocks

[@huntdonger]

Fantastic review! I think this was really fair. The hype train was starting to expect too much from these grinders and I think you showed that they're great for the price but have flaws. I'm happy I backed the 078s and 064s at the early-bird pricing, although I'm now considering switching to the 078.

[@LanceHedrick]

yes! great for the KS price. They aren't revolutionizing grinding, by any means (except maybe 078... I really love that one)

[@b0nes95]

@@LanceHedrick So the 078 is only for filter coffee, right? It seems you really love that one but I'm mainly interested in espresso.

[@haakhell]

This what we all been waiting for 🔥🔥

[@LanceHedrick]

hope it is worth the wait!

[@Robinzorz]

Thanks for this! Was kind of hoping the conclusion would be that the 078s was great for filter and espresso but now I might change my backing from 078s to a 078 and just find another solution for my espresso. Great and full review!!

[@SpektrikMusic]

I don't think the 78s would be bad for filter, maybe if you compare it side by side you'll taste a difference

[@D1PHAM]

Same here. Also checking to see if and when the turbo burrs will be made available.

[@edgarari8497]

I wouldn’t stress about that. He has amazing sense of taste and probably notices things 99% of people don’t notice. Others have stated they really enjoyed the S for filter and there was one review saying they preferred the taste profile from the S burrs for filter over the regular 078. Gotta remember some people HATE lighter coffees and think Italian roast is the best.

[@edgarari8497]

And they plan on releasing the burrs separately too

[@T_OneOneSeven]

​@@edgarari8497 My thoughts exactly. Should be a great flat burr all rounder for anyone.

[@mindfulawareness1]

64s worth the wait. I'm new to the espresso-only game, but getting very nice shots (I believe) partnered with the Gaggia Classic. Very impressed with the 64s thus far.

[@Phil_OG]

Really enjoy my 078s. Amazing grinder

[@BenjaminSweetnam]

Alright im now content with my purchase thanks lance. I'm excited to get my 78s and I'll use it for espresso and pour overs.

[@LanceHedrick]

so glad you are content! NO BUYER'S REMORSE!

[@TheDusty0ne]

Wow. Yeah I think your review is within expectations. Nice performance from all of them especially at the kickstarter price. I backed the 078S as a replacement for my Niche (really got a taste for the lighter stuff now) and it seems like it is the right decision:).

[@LanceHedrick]

exactly! Cheers

[@chinmayvashishth]

“Of coz it’s a well pulled shot” got me 😂 Great review! Thanks a lot

[@LanceHedrick]

hahahah thank you! Glad you enjoyed it.

[@helmoloti]

Could’ve definitely kept watching this if it had been +45 min! So much to dip into and it’s almost rushed.. Can we get the “extended directors cut” 😂 Jokes aside I applaud your hard work and thank you for it! Backed the 078s and with limited counter space and finances i still think after this video it just might be one of the better allaround grinders. So stickin with it 💪🏼 Even if wrong it’s beans not machines right 😉

[@LanceHedrick]

thank you! appreciate the comment, friend

[@peterjacobkang]

Yesss some numbers. So helpful. Keep on with the full throttles and also found the tidbit about a character not being inherent to the grinder but how it's being pulled so valuable. Too many people blame the grinder.

[@jericharding-barns1053]

We have just ordered the 78 for the cafe I work in, just waiting for it to arrive! So watching your videos is only getting me more hyped to taste all the yummie brown bean water my heart can desire! Keep rockin broski, love the vids 😘

[@LanceHedrick]

you're going to love it. I have no doubt.

[@yongzhenkit6622]

Tldr all 4 are great grinders, especially if you got them via the initial KS price. If you wanna brew both espresso and filter and dont plan to have any fomo on slight differences that you may or may not have the expert tastebuds to notice just get the S models.

[@Ang_R17]

Precisely what I did. I don't do much espresso nowadays, mostly pour over, though it seems the s is the most complete of all to cover everything. I don't want to put myself on that hassle of switching burrs, s it is for me

[@yongzhenkit6622]

@AngelloIReidM exactly same here, i prob do more filter but i dont want to switch burrs or get another grinder whenever i make espresso, so S it is for me.

[@paul-1124]

You saved my day 😂 will continue my pre order of 64s as i also do filters for the most part with my Jx-pro and the initial KS price is just unbeatable

[@yongzhenkit6622]

@@paul-1124 since I got an electric grinder I've stopped using my jx pro lol. Too lazy to hand grind

[@LanceHedrick]

very good comment and I largely agree. I would argue the difference between 78mm turbo and 078s, 064s, 064 is VAST. Like, I think most people would tell the difference if all dialed in. No joke.

[@Kevinmageddon]

I've never been more excited for a review

[@LanceHedrick]

hope you enjoyed!

[@Kevinmageddon]

@@LanceHedrick Review was so detailed and entertaining. The beatboxing was also a welcome addition, you should definitely incorporate it into more videos 👍

[@liamthompson9342]

Glad I watched this. I was nearly ready to buy the 064s but I do like light roasts and the motor already seemed a little bit insipid to me after watching James Hoffman's review. There's always something!

[@bradenb]

Great review. Glad it's finally here. The one question I was hoping you'd answer (or at least give your opinion on) was what you would recommend for people that frequently drink both espresso and filter coffee? I have the 078S preordered and while the majority of drinks in my home are espresso my true love is filter coffee and I want to make sure there's not a massive gap between the 078 and 078S in taste. FOMO is tough.

[@mikni4069]

I think he demonstrated well the issue with the dual use you get limited range in espresso and you tend to get results that aren’t top performance on any of said categories. it’s a noticeable compromise.

[@LanceHedrick]

Mik is correct. It will do espresso quite well at its price. The 078s does underperform IMO at the price. But, it really boils down to expectations at those KS prices.

[@DanHakeem]

I’m sorry, I didn’t understand. Did he mean perform well at its price for espresso and underperform at its price for filter?

[@bradenb]

@@DanHakeem I think he means that it’s fine but for both espresso and filter it underperforms for the price (though not sure if he means KS or retail price, that’s subjective anyway). But he clearly thinks the 078 is great and worth it.

[@Urzrkymn]

@@DanHakeem God knows. Man is a walking contradiction.

[@ryansiol]

thanks for the deep dive as usual, super appreciated as one of the day one backers of the 078s. looking forward to buying a set of turbo burrs for filter use in the future!

[@LanceHedrick]

definitely! The turbo burrs are insane.

[@phildando5640]

In the same boat. 078s early backer. But I’m doing as much pour over as espresso now.. so debating switching to the 078. (And sticking with my jmax / sette for espresso for now) Wonder if if did that if the reverse is possible. Buy the espresso burrs later… but I guess then I wouldn’t have the finer graduations on the front wheel for setting espresso….

[@19Vegi91]

Thank you for the review! I was hoping it would help my decision more than it actually did... So what I understand from this is for filter: 064s = 078s < Ode Gen 2 < 064 < Ode 2 SSP < 078? I was backing all 3 waiting for your review and am now wondering if I should get the 064 or ode gen 2 standard or SSP if I do almost exclusively light roasted filter. Or go big on manual (still cheaper than the electric ones) and get a K Max or C40? Unfortunately, getting the 078 is not an option for me because its likely too expensive getting it outside of the kickstarter and too much of a hassle.

[@user-yv8qd7fb2y]

It's tough because in the blind testing he preferred the 064 to the Ode 2 with SSP, but then you exclusively drink light roast and the grinding sound on the 064 just isn't good. I would say if you don't mind the work, you can consider manual.

[@richardmiddleton7770]

FWIW, on the 078s, the grip ridges on the burr adjustment dial correspond to the individual marks on the front, this means if you put the grinder sideways on your table, it's easier to see how many marks you're moving. Having the grinder sideways also solves the issue of seeing the rpm control, makes getting to the power button easier, and means it can go right up against a back wall which you can't do if it's facing forward because of the power cable. Also PLEASE tamp light till your burrs are run in! It'll solve the channeling issue and you won't be chasing grind settings as a result!

[@chunting89]

Very fair review from Lance. Very objective and thorough review which i could count on. And would like to point out for expresso user that lack of portafilter holder and the larger chute (considering the knocker part) will limit your choice of workflow.

[@diogoafonso7506]

Hi Lance, really appreciated your video! With all the questions that emerged I think you could make a follow up video and reply to some! Most would certainly watch! My question would be: Would the 078s be a good pairing with the Niche, being one a conical and the other a flat?

[@HansProbs]

Yes this!!! It was like an episode of Lost. Highly entertaining but many unanswered questions.

[@LanceHedrick]

yes absolutely!

[@corymorhart123]

Maybe it’s just me but I felt it wasn’t clear on taste for the 078s. On one hand it was giving the coffee its full potential but at the end the summary felt like you were less than enthused about it, recommending something in the 83mm space. Can you clarify? I’m looking for best espresso grinder without spending EG1 money. So far the favorite I have is 64mm ssp lab cast red speed burrs.

[@peshmerge44]

not just you. It confused me as well 😆.

[@peshmerge44]

the way i understood it is, that he doesn't like the burr size on the 078s. and he would choose a DF83 with SSP HU burrs for people who drink espresso AND filter. I think if you only drink espresso, the 078s is a great choice. let's see if he clarifies and if my thinking was right :D

[@easline404]

Thank you so much that you uploaded the most important video you've ever made before uploading this one, reduced my FOMO quite a lot :D

[@ShuhDonk]

I bought a 078 and a 078S, looking forward to receiving them. Will be selling my ode gen 2 with ssp burrs, my niche zero and femobook once they arrive after some testing to determine my 2 favorites.

[@pomidorowa6]

Great review! I'm still a litle bit torn between 078 and 078s - currently I'm almost only brewing pour over or aeropress but I'm planning on expanding to espresso. It seams that 078 would be perfect for "current me" but If I want to get the best allrounder I was curious what would be better - turbo burrs for espresso or espresso burs for pourover? Thanks in advance!

[@luke9822]

I'm in your boat, wanting to eventually have an espresso setup, but not wanting to diminish my pour-over experience. I'm not sure the turbo burrs can do espresso grind though, so I don't think you have that option.

[@jjevans1511]

Amazing thanks! Lance, did you do the filter TASTING comparison with REMOVING THE GROUNDS FROM THE FINES CLEANER or did you use all the coffee? WHITE or BLACK, Lance? In camera lighting it’s hard to tell. @Fellow KZbinrs: Please like the comment if you have the same questions

[@siphawtia4647]

Thank you sir nice video ❤ I'll stick with O78S I believe is better then df83 or niche duo 😉

[@jbstans]

Thank you! Excited for my 078s. I’d love to try the ghost burrs some time. Presumably you can fit them to the 078s? If so I’ll probably try and pick up a set in future.

[@LanceHedrick]

yes! completely changeable.

[@ColinHuth]

After (accidentally) getting my father to back an 064 too, it felt great to say *“and Lance will put it through its paces, if there are issues he’ll definitely find them.”* Thanks so much for the exhaustiveness of your testing, Lance, it really does give us way more buying confidence.

[@seanvettoor2858]

Hi Lance, have been waiting for this video! Have backed the 078s and am still happy with my decision. Im upgrading from an entry level Breville Smart Grinder Pro. Would be good to see a review from your end so we can compare it to some of the mid level grinders a lot of us upgrade to!

[@slenkhar]

Same grinder here. Could be cool to get a quick idea.

[@chrisdturner]

I think it'll be a decent upgrade for sure. I started off with that then upgraded to a niche zero, which was a noticeable bump in quality (though the breville is pretty good for the price). Hoping the 78s will be another small upgrade from the niche

[@seanvettoor2858]

Good to hear thanks Chris!

[@jwingsfay]

On the same wagon, hoping it'll be a good upgrade.

[@Harry-cg5gs]

Hey Lance. Thank you for following up with the review! You have the 078 on 6 for filter tasting. Would that be the grind size you recommend for your go-to 1~2min bloom, single pour recipe?

[@b34k97]

Well, this is making me feel pretty good about snagging the 078 at the start of the kickstarter.

[@LanceHedrick]

heck yeah! Great price there.

[@ziggyggs3468]

Glad we got a real review of these grinders (specifically the 078S) instead of just blowing smoke up Timemore. Product looks solid, nice features and good workflow...but I'm starting to think it may be time to cancel the pre-order and pre-order a Zerno instead

[@tagheuer02]

these were way overhyped. the review was kind of meh.

[@dukhwanee]

YAAS KING, watching this now.! been waiting for this, thank you Lance!

[@cabaretampere]

Do you regret predicting that the 078 with espresso capability will dominate everything under 1500 bucks? I'm not being an asshole, I'm genuinely interested and appreciate how honest you are in your reviews.

[@tzetv]

Thanks again @LanceHerick - I think one of the fascinating questions for those who drink both Filter and Espresso equally is whether a combination of a 078 for filter + either an 064S with SSP or 078S for Espresso produces a result that betters more expensive options than a P64, Weber etc trying to run as a Espresso/Filter combined grinder

[@CornusXelor]

Good video but feel like more info on the 78s would be good. The review gives the impression that you are not a fan of it overall. While it is probably the best espresso grinder at its kickstarter price it would of been nice if you gave it a range....

[@BensCoffeeRants]

Yeah seems a bit negative focusing on filter and comparing to filter oriented grinders /burrs. When it was the best for espresso of the group. But I feel a comparison with the DF83 or Niche DUO (not ZERO) would be a better comparison. Both of which are currently MORE expensive. So Regardless the 078s is a great deal.

[@morning91]

I thought the same thing. Would love a bit more on the 78s, especially about the range

[@BensCoffeeRants]

@@morning91 the thing is this isnt the actual 078s here. The 078s has a different dial with more fine points on it for dialing in espresso and maybe a different range of adjustment. Not sure but hopefully can still go coarse for non espresso brewing. My other concern would be if the 078 turbo burrs would work in the 078s body if they change the burr adjustment towards espresso. We know it works the other way with 078s burrs working decently in the 078 body which is what we see here and in other reviews so far.

[@rohittkrr]

quick feedback - it will be good to label them when you have similar looking products or use power of video editing. Otherwise great video as always

[@Max-ss2gy]

What's your opinion on stock DF83 v2 vs the 078s as an all purpose grinder for filter and espresso? Which would you recommend? Thanks for the awesome video of course!

[@morning91]

I'm also really keen to know this comparison, especially the comment about limited espresso range on the 78s

[@HansProbs]

The video is so cool and it blows by so fast for a 30 min video!! But all of the folllow-up Lance is doing is astounding and the reason why Lance is easily the #1 resource in specialty coffee right now. Someone give this man a hug.

[@mattw1428]

Thanks for doing this review Lance! I’m so happy that you took your time on this one to deliver another fantastic video. Keep up the stellar work!

[@LanceHedrick]

appreciate you! So glad you enjoyed it.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

Finally Time-MORE :D That threw me off. 7:12 Another review said they also had some stalling on the stock burrs but NOT on the SSPs for the 64s. I forget but I think it was the SSP MP burrs they put in. So the stalling was even with it on the highest RPM? It's kinda odd they limited it on the higher end. I feel like with the higher power motor on the 78 models, the RPM range COULD go lower. 10:30 Ahh that sucks, I was wondering WHY Timemore seemed so against swapping burrs, like that's what we do now, especially with 64mms get with the times! :D Tight tolerances are good though! It doesn't actually look that hard, just a lot of locking and loading! Also probably helps if you don't have coffee left in the chamber! 17:46 Not a great indication of quality control :O Which is basically my one main concern about these grinders especially with so many people backing them (and them needing to ship out a whole bunch quick!). Seems like the 78 models are better built at least. Really considering the price difference isn't so great, they should be built to the same (high) quality level. 24:30 Kinda weird everyone talks about the Niche Zero and it being so Rich / heavy body and very traditional conical burr espresso profile. I had one a while ago, I don't remember disagreeing that it had good body, but not sure I really paid much attention to body, I do notice the lack of it sometimes with burrs like the 64mm SSP MP, or even when I made the initial jump from a Specialita to a DF64 with stock italmill burrs! I noticed a big jump in clarity but then was kinda missing that body I previously took for granted (although I think I got used to the lack of body now, having a some higher end / higher clarity burrs/grinders). Why compare to the Niche Zero which is a very different grinder, and one I didn't think you were too fond, and not an DF83 or something more similar to the Timemore078/s?

[@DiegoNunes]

Lance, thanks for the super effort to release this incredible review in such short time.

[@LanceHedrick]

I appreciate it! Hope you all enjoy ;)

[@bilalsyed1542]

Lance, please compare 078S with the DF64V. Is the 078S a better grinder than DF64V with the stock burrs?

[@joanmorera7452]

Hey Lance. Purely for espresso, how the 078s compare to others? What would be better than that, stock, without changing burrs?

[@R1.Allan1]

I second this question @lance felt like this was maybe omitted on purpose but would like to know

[@jackharington3126]

Nothing at this time. The 78s on the current kickstarter is by far the best deal out there, it’s punching way above it’s price point and is built to last. Plus, Lance is very particular about filter, but what some other reviewers and most although preferring the turbos have still loved the s burrs for filter from the 78s. Don’t be the guy who wishes he backed the niche back at the start before the massive price hikes and waiting lists. Back the 78s and stop thinking about grinders.

[@LanceHedrick]

078s is incredible at its price point. I wanted to put people in check. There has been a craze envisioning that this grinder will solve all problems. With the expectations so high, there is a big fear loads would be dissatisfied with their purchase. be STOKED!

[@TheGroundedCoffee]

I backed the 078s but I have to say I'm not really sure of it's a good replacement for my DF64. Thinking about pulling out and switch burrs instead. Thank you for grinding this out over 2 months for us, Lance.

[@mberlinger3]

Same here I just hate the workflow on the df64. Do you as well?

[@TheFriskyBoy]

Same

[@erikngomez]

Maybe lance will chime in here but I have the same question and also hate the workflow of my DF64

[@TheRockyBalboa100]

@@mberlinger3 i read that multiple times. What is it with the workflow of the df64?

[@TheGroundedCoffee]

@@mberlinger3 well I don't really hate it, but I dislike bellowing and getting coffee grounds everywhere. What I also don't like is all the fines you get in the end of the grind, so you need to grind straight into a portafilter if you want to avoid clogging up your basket with them, which makes things even more messier.

[@KanielD]

Exciting!!! These, The Meticulous, & the Ratio 4 are the only things that have me excited right now. Thank you!

[@nagarajuarun10]

Ratio 4?? Do you have info on this?

[@KanielD]

@@nagarajuarun10 I only seen it briefly in Kyle Rowsell’s recent SCA expo video

[@EverythingIsPhotogenic]

The video so many have been waiting for! When you say "you can't really switch out the burrs" in the 078S, is that only based on Timemore's conservative stance and lack of alternatives or do you believe the tolerances will truly be prohibative to swapping to their own Turbo burrs or any forthcoming aftermarket options? I understand their stance not wanting to cover warranty replacement for heavy-handed tinkerers, but I am curious about the level of risk.

[@moshter11]

They wrote in KS comment section that they will sell the burrs separately later on. I hope they do something like the niche duo where they'll make it easy to swap the burrs. Bummed to hear Lance say the 078s burrs suck so much at pour overs.😢

[@mcst6969]

I read on reddit someone already switched the stock burrs with the 80mm ssp burrs. They just fit fine. But I think this machine going to be popular, so there are probably going to be some aftermarket 78mm burrs soon.

[@moshter11]

It will probably make sense to get the 078 with the turbo burrs first and then wait for aftermarket espresso-specific burrs to be released later since the 078s seems to be just okay... it's probably going to be USD400 for a 78mm burr set though...

[@chrisdturner]

​@@mcst6969 really? I'm surprised they would fit. If that is possible I'd be very interested. Do you know if this was a straight forward install or did it require some warranty ending jiggery pokery?

[@cabaretampere]

@@mcst6969 Do you remember where you saw this?!

[@peshmerge44]

so for someone who only wants to drink espresso the 078s is gucci?

[@andromedach]

they look good, I admit one of the reasons I went with my Ode V2 was the look, I of course want a good grinder for drip and pour over but I am so tired of grinders that look like they could be blenders

[@LanceHedrick]

hahaha you made a good choice, I think!

[@T_OneOneSeven]

Hey Lance, After seeing two reviews now where people (Kyle was one) say they prefer the filter coffee from the 78s to the Ode Gen2, how much would you say the results from cuppings come down to personal preference? Also for science, how many people did you blind taste with? One small critique, I wish you gave the 78s a little more coverage and had it in the blind filter cupping (seen a lot of coverage of the other models + that one had the most backers by far). Pulling a shot (workflow) and any notes on what changed from pre to production models would have been nice too. Nonetheless I think it would make a lot of sense for backers of the 78s to buy the turbo burrs as well after seeing your review, if they do want to get the best filter they can (it sounds like it's a big difference in your opinion). TM said they would sell them separately! Cheers.

[@LanceHedrick]

I've had 4 people blind cup with me over 8 weeks. Multiple coffees. Multiple extractions. 078s are not better than Gen 2 burrs. And I'd argue i know Gen 2 burrs better than most considering I helped make them lol

[@T_OneOneSeven]

@@LanceHedrick Seems like you did a lot to remain objective then, thanks for the reply! 👍

[@ritualresearchcentre4227]

My main not answered question is.. if i already have a Niche Zero, is is worth the change to the 078s? (Mostly espresso, sometimes Filter)

[@timonagel367]

Lance I would love you to read a good night story. ❤❤❤ Sometimes I hear and not even watch your videos. Love your English-speaking, your jokes and your detailed thoughts about all the technical stuff!

[@exooptik]

I bought a timemore fish kettle because it seemed like a great alternative to ekg at like 75% of the price. Around 8 month in it stopped heating water all the way to 100 and would stop at 95-ish. Another 6 months and it could only reach 85C and would stop heating. Timemore support told me that is a known problem and they suggest to get a new kettle. That felt really terrible and wasteful and I asked to get it fixed. They told me I can only exchange the kettle with a mew one and not fix it. I decided to give in and have them exchange it, but it turns out they have pulled out of my country and closed all the service points. I got an EKG and will never buy timemore products again. It was over a year after purchase so my bank could not do a chargeback or anything. Official ‘warranty’ is 2 years.

[@randyhou8522]

Hey Lance, thank you so much for your hard work putting this out. How does the 078s fare with medium roasts for espresso vs NZ? for instance Counter Culture Big Trouble. I'm curious about lighter roasts but my go to is a nice medium and wouldn't want to do worse than my current grinder the NZ and hoping to get rid of that bitter edge I get from the NZ. Also, where would DF83 with stock burrs fit in compared to NZ and 078s? That's my other purchase consideration. Thanks!

[@johnspanos3862]

Also curious on this!

[@tom_nuyts]

simply great and differentiating...perfect

[@Tactim8]

Upgrading from an oxo burr grinder. I was about to get the ode gen 2, but then I came across the 78 kickstarter. I’m so excited to take the first significant upgrade in my coffee set with the 78 (besides a coffee subscription with fresh beans).

[@jakeg1117]

Thanks so much for the in depth video. So psyched to get my 078 in the mail, and can't wait to feel FOMO when your next vid comes out :)

[@LanceHedrick]

appreciate you!

[@rachidt2764]

How would you rate the 078s vs the 064s with other burrs for espresso?

[@rafayetn]

Very curious about this one/was hopeful this would have been a comparison

[@jonathanp4772]

Same here. I was wondering how the 078s stacks up against the Df64 with ssp multipurpose burrs in Espresso.

[@gammonwalker]

​@@jonathanp4772 same

[@TheFriskyBoy]

I need an answer for this

[@florisb1]

I was actually wondering how the 064 compares in taste to the Ode with gen 2 Burrs. Very nice review though! :)

[@thomprd]

I’m so confused. I have a slot for a 64S at $329. I have no idea whether I should switch out for the bigger one or not. I’m only interested in espresso with a Gaggia Classic Pro that I’m modifying. I’m not trying to chase “end game” for the rest of my life. My Gaggiunio will be able to profile and I think that I’ll be happy with the 64S but I don’t feel any more confident in that now than I did before watching the video. I’m using a $60 Hario hand grinder now. I can make a shot of espresso that to me and my coffee friend tastes as good if not a little better than the one from the coffee shop/roaster that roasts the beans. I think I’m going to go with my gut and say $329 is my price point and it should be good enough.

[@tagheuer02]

I'm in the same boat, he made zero effort to compare the 064s to any competitors. He seemed pretty negative on the 064s so I'm thinking of dropping. we have no way of knowing if it is a good value.

[@rachelsherman1617]

In the same boat here trying to decide between other things in that price point like the Varia VS3 or an open box older model DF64...

[@S2580ss]

At the kickstarter price of €275 (as of now) the 064 really is a no brainer for me. My next option would be the Lagom mini or ode gen 2 and they’re close to €500 all in

[@HappyAccidentVideos]

I got the 064s. It’s cool that the 078 is the best for filter, but I really wanted something for the 64mm platform. The variety of burrs is outstanding. Im looking forward to putting my cast SSP Burrs in there. They seem like a good all rounder for filter and espresso. Right now I’m just rocking them in the Ode for filter only

[@user-yv8qd7fb2y]

Hmm, why not the df64? I backed the 064s too but then the sound when grinding and Timemore's stance on replacing the burrs really put me off, though I've read in a comment here that Timemore stated they will sell SSP separately at a later date implying they can be changed. Edit: I misread the comment I mentioned, Timemore only said they'd be selling their own burrs separately, not SSP.

[@richditieri9877]

@@user-yv8qd7fb2y as a former owner of a DF64 that grinder had a horrible UX and was miserable to live with day to day. I can’t believe people still buy those things anymore. Awful retention, unreliable alignment, difficult alignment process, the bellows is clunky. I was so disappointed.

[@user-yv8qd7fb2y]

​@@richditieri9877 What did you end up with if you don't mind me asking?

[@richditieri9877]

@@user-yv8qd7fb2y I ditched the DF64 for a Niche Zero, which I’m in love with, BUT, I’m still seeking something that makes the lightest of roasts shine, mostly for espresso but occasionally pour over, which is why I backed the 078S

[@chrishutchins8448]

@@richditieri9877oh dude I had no idea. Wow now I feel a heck of a lot better backing the 78s, thanks man!

[@luke9822]

3:02 the weight of the cup dragging across the base is a bigger factor for scratches than the speed at which it moves.

[@LanceHedrick]

eh- the magnetization is weaker so it won't be pulling as tightly against the base.

[@michaelbrambram]

solid review! I backed the 78s after watching this video. Do you think that the variable rpm can act as a "micro adjustment" for espresso ?

[@seanvettoor2858]

Thanks

[@noelscruggs5670]

Got my popcorn ready for movie night reviews with Lance! Love how detailed you are!

[@jermainechan4390]

was looking forward to this one, thanks Lance!

[@_Brewn]

great video! the result was exactly what I had imagined. the star of the show is the 078. Luckily I'm not the only one who finds the 064 & 064s hoppers very ugly 😅 I'm now also a patreon, I think it's fair because your content is one of my main sources for current coffee stuff 💖

[@LanceHedrick]

thank you, Tim! Appreciate you. See ya in discord!

[@_Brewn]

@@LanceHedrick yes! Will Share all my thoughs on everything 😬✌️

[@thenameiwantedwastaken]

I don’t get sewing machines but I do get Stand Mixer vibes from them

[@richardmiddleton7770]

I'm not sure if it's different with flat burrs but with conical it actually takes LESS torque the finer you grind.

[@aarontsosa]

Cool, dropping my KS pledge, not something I need at the moment. Great review!

[@adamg.manning6088]

Backed the 78S, and currently own a Niche and Fellow Ode Gen 2. I’m now even more confused as to whether the 78S would compliment either of the two grinders or if I should just cancel and stick.

[@errgo2713]

You have too many grinders

[@adamg.manning6088]

@@errgo2713 Your Dad has too many Grindrs.

[@9secs]

Sounds to me like you need to get rid of the niche. I currently use a vario for filter and espresso and backed the 78s for espresso so I can use the vario for filter only. I bet you can eventually sell the niche for at least what you pay for the 78s.

[@adamg.manning6088]

@@9secs Yeah. That what it looks like. It’s odd. I thought the 78S would compliment the Niche for Espresso and Filter, but it seems it would fall short on the later. You’re right about selling the Niche. I wouldn’t lose much.

[@joconnell]

Cancelled my 064s as a result of this - I like traditional syrupy shots and this doesn't sound like a massive jump over an urbanic 070s and gevis. I'll wait on something a bit better to pair with a meticulous arriving in december, maybe a df83, 64v or even a zerno!

[@mrtnmlchr]

🎉 The Burr Master has spoken to us. Listen carefully. Also buy good coffee and choose your water wisely.

[@jasonlowther1694]

Hey Lance. Thank you for looking out for our best interest with your reviews. I really appreciate it. Quick question. What’s your thoughts of the cup quality for filter from the 78 versus the ZP6? I own the ZP6 (thanks to your influence) and I’m trying to gauge the advantages of moving up to the flat burrs.

[@LanceHedrick]

I prefer 078 but it is marginal enough I think 80% wouldn't appreciate the difference.

[@gustavdanielsson6848]

I love your shirt! I am staying with my 78s order I think. Upgrading from a Eureka Silenzio. Thank you :)

[@Hammi4Real]

It's exciting looking at all these new grinders coming out, and I could need a real step up. I've only been able to rely on the built-in grinder in my BBE for four years now and it has as of late started to stall every time I use medium-light roasts or anything South American, which is infuriating as if it wasn't enough with the ever persisting retention gobbling up my grams. Also looking forward to an in-depth review of the DF64V if or whenever that happens, which I'm rather stoked on right now. I deserve a non-muted tasty miracle in my cup, not without expenses on quality beans of course.

[@jlyt18]

how is the espresso on the 078s compared to the df83 stock? df64v w/ssp MP? niche duo? is the 83 still your sub 1000 king? If I were to go with a 078 turbo for filter, what would be a good pairing for the espresso side of the house? 078s? or Still the DF83? And if i am to get a DF83 +078, thats 1300 in grinders total at that point do you just bite the remaining 300 for the lagom p64? or get the zerno? or are 2 grinders just inevitable? thank you so much for the incredible review lance! i pledged basically all 4 so you are a huge help in my decision making. Very bored of my niche 0.

[@chrishutchins8448]

This is what I was waiting for!

[@Mokkatomic]

Thanks, I will forever think of you beatboxing when using the rotary knocker

[@bp060]

Off topic, but I remember a story about the moonraker from you. When there is a video coming I think it's rlly interesting to compare it to 3d printed rotary wdt from etsy which have been out for quite a while, and the bh tool one too :) PS.: rlly great video, very honest. I feel like they are similar with the ode, being overhyped for their design but still a good grinder.

[@criticist0]

Fantastic content! Thank you Lance.

[@scviper]

Thanks for the review Lance!

[@classicrockonly]

After watching this, I don't regret backing the 078s. I am hopeful for a better pour over than what I make now, but I do light roast espresso far more than anything else

[@reactionsok]

Can i cancel my order

[@classicrockonly]

@@reactionsok don’t know

[@reactionsok]

@@classicrockonly I cancelled mine

[@Kahlnen]

Thank you so much Lance.

[@codycantrell2780]

Been waiting so long for this! Woot woot

[@LanceHedrick]

haha! Hope the wait was worth it!

[@codycantrell2780]

This really helped me a lot. Prior to seeing this, I was kicking around the idea of selling my Ode Gen 2 and using the 078s for both espresso and pour over. If strictly used for espresso now, would you purchase the 078s or look elsewhere? P.S. I’m in on the Kickstarter price

[@CoffeeXmusic]

Awesome video man! Can’t wait to receive the 78S

[@beltranybarradavila-armero6821]

Thanks again for this insightful review. It is always a pleasure. Big thanks to Hugo as well! I have a Niche and I find flavors a bit mixed on espresso (95% of my coffee). I’m looking for more clarity. As suggested, I improved my coffee buys. My espresso got better but still far from the espresso produced by roaster. I understand the 078S would be a minor improvement but still an improvement. What improvement would you then recommend without going too far beyond the point of diminishing returns? Are we talking zerno? Lagom P64? Weber?

[@chadw6593]

What RPM were you using for filter? Did it matter?