TIMEMORE SCULPTOR REVIEW: 064, 064s, 078, 078s

[@LanceHedrick]

Hope you all enjoyed! 2 months, about 35kg of coffee ground, hundreds of espressos and filters, and more, and it is here. I hope you enjoy it! Also, I forgot to note that sometimes, the 064s and 078s would make slightly clumpy grounds not found in other grinders. It wasn't anything WDT couldn't handle, but still should be noted. I am kicking myself for not mentioning it. Hope the video was helpful! Any questions in the comments! Cheers

[@Phil_OG]

Did you also put some dark roasted coffee through them? I wonder if retention could be worse if a darker coffee is used.

[@LanceHedrick]

@@Phil_OGyes and it was minimal

[@peshmerge44]

so for someone who only wants to drink espresso the 078s is gucci?

[@Huevoos]

For someone who will brew both espresso and filter. Would you recommend the O78s? Or just the O78 and getting a different grinder for espresso?

[@danhcu]

I keep my Niche after your review the 78S. Thank Lance👍

[@EYYQCiHTfAGTV7O96y]

Thank you, Lance! One quick thing to note: many of us listen to your videos as we’re vision impaired, out and about etc. So replacing “this one” “that one” with short names would go a long ways. Keep up the awesome work! 🎉

[@LanceHedrick]

Oh so sorry! That's a great point. I'll do better

[@EYYQCiHTfAGTV7O96y]

@@LanceHedrick thanks my man!

[@RichardTongeman]

I tend to listen to KZbin videos more than watch them also, so I can get on with chores

[@baselsalam]

Even thought I can see, I often got confused because some of these were the same color and indistinguishable on video. I actually need to go back and watch a few parts because I wasn't sure which of the two 078 grinders he meant.

[@catacgc]

And which one did he meant? I still cannot tell 😂

[@SuperDogWannabe]

I dont understand 99% of this as a beginner, but I appreciate your attention to detail! Makes it easier to navigate purchasing

[@seanvettoor2858]

Thanks

[@CoffeeNo0b0514]

I actually like the opaque hoppers so much more. Makes the device look more seamless overall because it's more color matched from top to bottom. Both look fine though

[@LanceHedrick]

That's great! I just feel like it looks... odd. lol

[@CoffeeNo0b0514]

@@LanceHedrick we all have our stylistic preferences, and there isn't anything wrong with that!

[@barjee]

@@LanceHedrick Same here, hopefully someone on etsy will make clear ones lol

[@bprayogo2000]

“This is giving the coffes full potential” thats enough for me to be really confident getting the 078s and ignore other overprice sd grinders out there 🎉

[@KelvinWong-sd2ik]

Did u hear his recommendation at the end?

[@bprayogo2000]

I did. Did you read my comment😛 hearing him said that Im confident to back the 078s. And i prefer vertically mounted flatburr for single dosing. And did you watch about the retention? 🎉

[@meph137]

Yeh I’m a bit confused with those two comments. They seem contradictory

[@tagheuer02]

@@meph137 lots of things he said are contradictory.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

He said DF83 with SSP burrs but that's more $$ 83mm SSP burrs are pricey. 078s seems like a great value. Sure the 078 with it's brew optimized burr is going to be better for pour overs most likely but then you sacrafice the ability to brew espresso on the grinder (until you swap burrs which doesn't seem toooo difficult). 078s for Pour over is going to be a lot better than using a Niche Zero, it's kinda sad I see people saying they're cancelling their Timemore 078s FOR A NICHE ZERO! :O Stock DF83 and Niche DUO are some competitors to the 078 models not sure why niche ZERO was included at all besides being another cute nice looking easy to use grinder and It's still more expensive!

[@davidfrankel9267]

The title of this review does not do the content justice. A lot more about Ode 2 comparisons than I thought. Very Helpful. Thanks.

[@arthurskudra50]

For those still debating whether to get the 064s vs 078s, see Kyle Rowsell's very thorough youtube review. I'm sticking with backing the 078S as an all around filter and espresso grinder. If I'm not happy with the burr choice, I'm sure the market will offer alternate burr options, I wouldn't let a few screws deter anyone from swapping them out. If you have the budget, getting a stepless 78mm grinder this good for the price is a no-brainer IMHO.

[@greghazell4214]

I wouldn’t put too much stock into his views as his videos are basically paid advertisements

[@arthurskudra50]

@@greghazell4214 and honestly who isn’t biased in some way these days, lance included? I find that Kyle strikes a good balance, provides a fair viewpoint and gives constructive criticism where it’s due.

[@classicrockonly]

For me, if I’m not happy with the pour over results I’ll save up and get an Ode 2 to have alongside the 078s. The 078s sounds like it will offer what I’m looking for. I want more clarity in my light roast espressos

[@xenodrake4008]

Why not get the 078 instead wich seems exceptional and then something like opus for espresso?​@@classicrockonly

[@classicrockonly]

@@xenodrake4008 that would be a dream. But I don’t have counter space or money, for one. I went with the DF64V and haven’t been happier with a coffee grinder. I’ve had both great espressos and pour overs with the stock burrs :) and retention is incredibly low

[@franksimms6311]

Some people have dismissed the 078s because Lance said he prefers the 0de Gen 2 burrs to the 078s for filter coffee. I think that dismissal is unfair to the 078s. The Ode Gen 2 is a filter oriented grinder and considered one of the best for filter anywhere near the price. Considering that the 078s expresso oriented burrs come in close is outstanding! Kyle Rowsell even prefered the 078s burrs to the Ode Gen 2 burrs for filtered coffee!

[@TheRockyBalboa100]

Exactly

[@Tobyjrn6297]

Yeah i hadn't considered this. Excellent point

[@Inserico]

Yea I was going to go with the 078S as I drink espresso drinks exclusively (moka pot/aeropress on an extremely rare request by my guests) until he said he'd go for the 078 (non-S). But going through the comments, the S still seems to be fairly popular choice for many

[@danielchin8073]

Thanks for spending the time to make this for us. I know it's a ton of work. It was great for Emilee to make an appearance too, she's super cool.

[@LanceHedrick]

thank you! And yes- she rocks

[@scheissami]

Thanks for making the effort to get this out for us to make decisions about our order before the KS window closes, very much appreciated. I chose 78s as I drink 50/50 filter and espresso, primarily light roast. If I had to pick a preference at gunpoint, it would be filter coffee. But, I have a DE1 and I’d like to explore the options available to me with profiles oriented to large flat burrs and my Niche isn’t great for that. I suppose my thought is that I can see how I like the espresso/profiles with the 78s; if I do, keep it and consider getting a 78 dedicated for filter (if I think there is room for improvement over the 78s, as you obviously do). If I don’t fancy the espresso with the 78s, buy the Turbo burrs (when available, or another aftermarket set if/once they become available) and swap the burrs. Then I’m only out the cost of a burr set. Don’t think I can justify two additional grinders at this point, though I suppose I could sell the Niche and get both 78/78s…

[@Robinzorz]

Thanks for this! Was kind of hoping the conclusion would be that the 078s was great for filter and espresso but now I might change my backing from 078s to a 078 and just find another solution for my espresso. Great and full review!!

[@SpektrikMusic]

I don't think the 78s would be bad for filter, maybe if you compare it side by side you'll taste a difference

[@D1PHAM]

Same here. Also checking to see if and when the turbo burrs will be made available.

[@edgarari8497]

I wouldn’t stress about that. He has amazing sense of taste and probably notices things 99% of people don’t notice. Others have stated they really enjoyed the S for filter and there was one review saying they preferred the taste profile from the S burrs for filter over the regular 078. Gotta remember some people HATE lighter coffees and think Italian roast is the best.

[@edgarari8497]

And they plan on releasing the burrs separately too

[@T_OneOneSeven]

​@@edgarari8497 My thoughts exactly. Should be a great flat burr all rounder for anyone.

[@huntdonger]

Fantastic review! I think this was really fair. The hype train was starting to expect too much from these grinders and I think you showed that they're great for the price but have flaws. I'm happy I backed the 078s and 064s at the early-bird pricing, although I'm now considering switching to the 078.

[@LanceHedrick]

yes! great for the KS price. They aren't revolutionizing grinding, by any means (except maybe 078... I really love that one)

[@b0nes95]

@@LanceHedrick So the 078 is only for filter coffee, right? It seems you really love that one but I'm mainly interested in espresso.

[@19Vegi91]

Thank you for the review! I was hoping it would help my decision more than it actually did... So what I understand from this is for filter: 064s = 078s < Ode Gen 2 < 064 < Ode 2 SSP < 078? I was backing all 3 waiting for your review and am now wondering if I should get the 064 or ode gen 2 standard or SSP if I do almost exclusively light roasted filter. Or go big on manual (still cheaper than the electric ones) and get a K Max or C40? Unfortunately, getting the 078 is not an option for me because its likely too expensive getting it outside of the kickstarter and too much of a hassle.

[@Arzudeus]

It's tough because in the blind testing he preferred the 064 to the Ode 2 with SSP, but then you exclusively drink light roast and the grinding sound on the 064 just isn't good. I would say if you don't mind the work, you can consider manual.

[@corymorhart123]

Maybe it’s just me but I felt it wasn’t clear on taste for the 078s. On one hand it was giving the coffee its full potential but at the end the summary felt like you were less than enthused about it, recommending something in the 83mm space. Can you clarify? I’m looking for best espresso grinder without spending EG1 money. So far the favorite I have is 64mm ssp lab cast red speed burrs.

[@peshmerge44]

not just you. It confused me as well 😆.

[@peshmerge44]

the way i understood it is, that he doesn't like the burr size on the 078s. and he would choose a DF83 with SSP HU burrs for people who drink espresso AND filter. I think if you only drink espresso, the 078s is a great choice. let's see if he clarifies and if my thinking was right :D

[@patriciusottilius9819]

My 078s arrived and I just aligned it after doing the marker test. I also moved the pin 3 holes counterclockwise for the new zero point. After watching a video from Hoons's Coffee, where he aligned the DF64 simply by changing the orientation of the burrs, I did the same thing with my 078s, although the burrs are only hold by 2 screws. This worked well for the outer and the inner burr and I didnt need to use aluminium foil, so maybe I was just lucky or the burrs were mounted with wrong orientation (chance by 50% because of 2 screws). Another thing I took from Hoon's video is to spin the outer burr by hand. To achieve that you have to remove the spring from the shaft, so that the burrs can touch and than carefully spin the outer burr with the handle. By doing that you can save the whole (re-)assembly process and the aligning process is simplified. Unfortunately I'm not 100% sure if spinning the burr by hand leads to the same result of the marker test when compared to the marker test with a fully assembled 078s. What do you think?

[@Phil_OG]

I think it doesn't matter. The real question is how the alignment is while it's grinding

[@mindfulawareness1]

64s worth the wait. I'm new to the espresso-only game, but getting very nice shots (I believe) partnered with the Gaggia Classic. Very impressed with the 64s thus far.

[@jericharding-barns1053]

We have just ordered the 78 for the cafe I work in, just waiting for it to arrive! So watching your videos is only getting me more hyped to taste all the yummie brown bean water my heart can desire! Keep rockin broski, love the vids 😘

[@LanceHedrick]

you're going to love it. I have no doubt.

[@BenjaminSweetnam]

Alright im now content with my purchase thanks lance. I'm excited to get my 78s and I'll use it for espresso and pour overs.

[@LanceHedrick]

so glad you are content! NO BUYER'S REMORSE!

[@richardmiddleton7770]

FWIW, on the 078s, the grip ridges on the burr adjustment dial correspond to the individual marks on the front, this means if you put the grinder sideways on your table, it's easier to see how many marks you're moving. Having the grinder sideways also solves the issue of seeing the rpm control, makes getting to the power button easier, and means it can go right up against a back wall which you can't do if it's facing forward because of the power cable. Also PLEASE tamp light till your burrs are run in! It'll solve the channeling issue and you won't be chasing grind settings as a result!

[@rachidt2764]

How would you rate the 078s vs the 064s with other burrs for espresso?

[@rafayetn]

Very curious about this one/was hopeful this would have been a comparison

[@jonathanp4772]

Same here. I was wondering how the 078s stacks up against the Df64 with ssp multipurpose burrs in Espresso.

[@gammonwalker]

​@@jonathanp4772 same

[@TheFriskyBoy]

I need an answer for this

[@joanmorera7452]

Hey Lance. Purely for espresso, how the 078s compare to others? What would be better than that, stock, without changing burrs?

[@R1.Allan1]

I second this question @lance felt like this was maybe omitted on purpose but would like to know

[@jackharington3126]

Nothing at this time. The 78s on the current kickstarter is by far the best deal out there, it’s punching way above it’s price point and is built to last. Plus, Lance is very particular about filter, but what some other reviewers and most although preferring the turbos have still loved the s burrs for filter from the 78s. Don’t be the guy who wishes he backed the niche back at the start before the massive price hikes and waiting lists. Back the 78s and stop thinking about grinders.

[@LanceHedrick]

078s is incredible at its price point. I wanted to put people in check. There has been a craze envisioning that this grinder will solve all problems. With the expectations so high, there is a big fear loads would be dissatisfied with their purchase. be STOKED!

[@peterjacobkang]

Yesss some numbers. So helpful. Keep on with the full throttles and also found the tidbit about a character not being inherent to the grinder but how it's being pulled so valuable. Too many people blame the grinder.

[@TheDusty0ne]

Wow. Yeah I think your review is within expectations. Nice performance from all of them especially at the kickstarter price. I backed the 078S as a replacement for my Niche (really got a taste for the lighter stuff now) and it seems like it is the right decision:).

[@LanceHedrick]

exactly! Cheers

[@yongzhenkit6622]

Tldr all 4 are great grinders, especially if you got them via the initial KS price. If you wanna brew both espresso and filter and dont plan to have any fomo on slight differences that you may or may not have the expert tastebuds to notice just get the S models.

[@Ang_R17]

Precisely what I did. I don't do much espresso nowadays, mostly pour over, though it seems the s is the most complete of all to cover everything. I don't want to put myself on that hassle of switching burrs, s it is for me

[@yongzhenkit6622]

@AngelloIReidM exactly same here, i prob do more filter but i dont want to switch burrs or get another grinder whenever i make espresso, so S it is for me.

[@paul-1124]

You saved my day 😂 will continue my pre order of 64s as i also do filters for the most part with my Jx-pro and the initial KS price is just unbeatable

[@yongzhenkit6622]

@@paul-1124 since I got an electric grinder I've stopped using my jx pro lol. Too lazy to hand grind

[@LanceHedrick]

very good comment and I largely agree. I would argue the difference between 78mm turbo and 078s, 064s, 064 is VAST. Like, I think most people would tell the difference if all dialed in. No joke.

[@chinmayvashishth]

“Of coz it’s a well pulled shot” got me 😂 Great review! Thanks a lot

[@LanceHedrick]

hahahah thank you! Glad you enjoyed it.

[@bradenb]

Great review. Glad it's finally here. The one question I was hoping you'd answer (or at least give your opinion on) was what you would recommend for people that frequently drink both espresso and filter coffee? I have the 078S preordered and while the majority of drinks in my home are espresso my true love is filter coffee and I want to make sure there's not a massive gap between the 078 and 078S in taste. FOMO is tough.

[@mikni4069]

I think he demonstrated well the issue with the dual use you get limited range in espresso and you tend to get results that aren’t top performance on any of said categories. it’s a noticeable compromise.

[@LanceHedrick]

Mik is correct. It will do espresso quite well at its price. The 078s does underperform IMO at the price. But, it really boils down to expectations at those KS prices.

[@DanHakeem]

I’m sorry, I didn’t understand. Did he mean perform well at its price for espresso and underperform at its price for filter?

[@bradenb]

@@DanHakeem I think he means that it’s fine but for both espresso and filter it underperforms for the price (though not sure if he means KS or retail price, that’s subjective anyway). But he clearly thinks the 078 is great and worth it.

[@Urzrkymn]

@@DanHakeem God knows. Man is a walking contradiction.

[@haakhell]

This what we all been waiting for 🔥🔥

[@LanceHedrick]

hope it is worth the wait!

[@pomidorowa6]

Great review! I'm still a litle bit torn between 078 and 078s - currently I'm almost only brewing pour over or aeropress but I'm planning on expanding to espresso. It seams that 078 would be perfect for "current me" but If I want to get the best allrounder I was curious what would be better - turbo burrs for espresso or espresso burs for pourover? Thanks in advance!

[@luke9822]

I'm in your boat, wanting to eventually have an espresso setup, but not wanting to diminish my pour-over experience. I'm not sure the turbo burrs can do espresso grind though, so I don't think you have that option.

[@helmoloti]

Could’ve definitely kept watching this if it had been +45 min! So much to dip into and it’s almost rushed.. Can we get the “extended directors cut” 😂 Jokes aside I applaud your hard work and thank you for it! Backed the 078s and with limited counter space and finances i still think after this video it just might be one of the better allaround grinders. So stickin with it 💪🏼 Even if wrong it’s beans not machines right 😉

[@LanceHedrick]

thank you! appreciate the comment, friend

[@Kevinmageddon]

I've never been more excited for a review

[@LanceHedrick]

hope you enjoyed!

[@Kevinmageddon]

@@LanceHedrick Review was so detailed and entertaining. The beatboxing was also a welcome addition, you should definitely incorporate it into more videos 👍

[@Max-ss2gy]

What's your opinion on stock DF83 v2 vs the 078s as an all purpose grinder for filter and espresso? Which would you recommend? Thanks for the awesome video of course!

[@morning91]

I'm also really keen to know this comparison, especially the comment about limited espresso range on the 78s

[@chunting89]

Very fair review from Lance. Very objective and thorough review which i could count on. And would like to point out for expresso user that lack of portafilter holder and the larger chute (considering the knocker part) will limit your choice of workflow.

[@Kevin-dl5ud]

Curious what you consider the best all-around grinder at the price point of an earlybird 078S? I don't have the counter space for more than one grinder, and I'd like something that's really good for filter and espresso, would you say the 078S takes that spot?

[@LanceHedrick]

At early bird price, yes. Absolutely.

[@Kevin-dl5ud]

@@LanceHedrick thanks!

[@kfilbrun]

Would you choose the 078s over a DF64?

[@DannoHung]

Feel like I'm in the same spot as you. I mean, I really love espresso over filter coffee, but I do like having filter sometimes and I don't really have the space for multiple grinders AND an espresso machine. And then getting a DF83 in comparison would be a much bigger outlay over the 78s earlybird. Hmm.

[@JoeSchwa]

@@LanceHedrick What about purely as an espresso grinder?

[@easline404]

Thank you so much that you uploaded the most important video you've ever made before uploading this one, reduced my FOMO quite a lot :D

[@diogoafonso7506]

Hi Lance, really appreciated your video! With all the questions that emerged I think you could make a follow up video and reply to some! Most would certainly watch! My question would be: Would the 078s be a good pairing with the Niche, being one a conical and the other a flat?

[@HansProbs]

Yes this!!! It was like an episode of Lost. Highly entertaining but many unanswered questions.

[@LanceHedrick]

yes absolutely!

[@Phil_OG]

Really enjoy my 078s. Amazing grinder

[@ryansiol]

thanks for the deep dive as usual, super appreciated as one of the day one backers of the 078s. looking forward to buying a set of turbo burrs for filter use in the future!

[@LanceHedrick]

definitely! The turbo burrs are insane.

[@phildando5640]

In the same boat. 078s early backer. But I’m doing as much pour over as espresso now.. so debating switching to the 078. (And sticking with my jmax / sette for espresso for now) Wonder if if did that if the reverse is possible. Buy the espresso burrs later… but I guess then I wouldn’t have the finer graduations on the front wheel for setting espresso….

[@barjee]

28:56 if these dips on the motor affect PSD, for medium - light roast, would it be "better" to go for something like the df64 and slow feed it as it has a more powerful motor? or is the auger feeding/ pre breaking still more beneficial?

[@LurkinOnThis]

Do you feel that the 078s burrs fell short to the core burrs in the EG1? I remember you saying the geometry looked the same, but wondering if the taste was similar after your testing?

[@LanceHedrick]

Fell quite short of the core burrs.

[@LurkinOnThis]

Thanks lance!

[@shihster88]

But you can buy like 8 78s for the price of one eg1 lol

[@LurkinOnThis]

@@shihster88 That is true! Taste and feel definitely matters. I'm hoping ssp makes a EG1 core style burr for a few hundred dollars. Then you would have a great all around grinder for around $700-$800 instead of $3500.

[@kwws]

Hi lance, is there any difference in espresso taste profile of 078S versus the DF64 standard burr? Getting my first flat grinder and would be good to know if there is any significant taste profile upgrade of 78mm burr.

[@TheGroundedCoffee]

A lot of us are curious about this!

[@LanceHedrick]

great question. I would say that DF64 gives more chocolatey profiles (think Niche). 078s gives something more like handgrinders give. think c40 or K plus. but a bit more muddled.

[@jonasmatterne9182]

@@LanceHedrick Do I understand correctly that the 078S is more muddled than the K-plus? I have a K-max and backed the 078S as my first electrical grinder. Could you add the K-max in your comparison please? Thank you for your quality content!!!

[@pablosanmartinvarela1773]

​@@jonasmatterne9182 Same here! I might get the 078 instead. Or a Pietro for the clarity.

[@kwws]

@@LanceHedrick thank you so much for the feedback! this is quite a relevation, I am on 1Zpresso J-Max now and was hoping to have an upgrades taste profile with a flat burr grinder but a little taken back by this comment..!

[@jbstans]

Thank you! Excited for my 078s. I’d love to try the ghost burrs some time. Presumably you can fit them to the 078s? If so I’ll probably try and pick up a set in future.

[@LanceHedrick]

yes! completely changeable.

[@machineslave3]

If I don’t hear “flat burr king” or “niche killer,” I’m unsubbing.

[@lycaondoug]

So.. it's not better than the niche for espresso?

[@JoeSchwa]

@@lycaondoug He said it was. Many consider the Niche overrated and many reviews have been overblown by viewers.

[@machineslave3]

@@lycaondoug I think he’s kinda saying it is especially for the price. It’s $500 at the kickstarter price. The niche is what? $800?

[@tristanwwsd]

😆

[@TheCyclingCardio]

😂

[@seanvettoor2858]

Hi Lance, have been waiting for this video! Have backed the 078s and am still happy with my decision. Im upgrading from an entry level Breville Smart Grinder Pro. Would be good to see a review from your end so we can compare it to some of the mid level grinders a lot of us upgrade to!

[@slenkhar]

Same grinder here. Could be cool to get a quick idea.

[@chrisdturner]

I think it'll be a decent upgrade for sure. I started off with that then upgraded to a niche zero, which was a noticeable bump in quality (though the breville is pretty good for the price). Hoping the 78s will be another small upgrade from the niche

[@seanvettoor2858]

Good to hear thanks Chris!

[@jwingsfay]

On the same wagon, hoping it'll be a good upgrade.

[@randyhou8522]

Hey Lance, thank you so much for your hard work putting this out. How does the 078s fare with medium roasts for espresso vs NZ? for instance Counter Culture Big Trouble. I'm curious about lighter roasts but my go to is a nice medium and wouldn't want to do worse than my current grinder the NZ and hoping to get rid of that bitter edge I get from the NZ. Also, where would DF83 with stock burrs fit in compared to NZ and 078s? That's my other purchase consideration. Thanks!

[@johnspanos3862]

Also curious on this!

[@liamthompson9342]

Glad I watched this. I was nearly ready to buy the 064s but I do like light roasts and the motor already seemed a little bit insipid to me after watching James Hoffman's review. There's always something!

[@chadw6593]

What RPM were you using for filter? Did it matter?

[@ritualresearchcentre4227]

My main not answered question is.. if i already have a Niche Zero, is is worth the change to the 078s? (Mostly espresso, sometimes Filter)

[@bilalsyed1542]

Lance, please compare 078S with the DF64V. Is the 078S a better grinder than DF64V with the stock burrs?

[@Harry-cg5gs]

Hey Lance. Thank you for following up with the review! You have the 078 on 6 for filter tasting. Would that be the grind size you recommend for your go-to 1~2min bloom, single pour recipe?

[@showclassthenstitch]

Do you think that there is a bigger range of usable area for the Zerno in comparison to the 078S?

[@stevencallen8406]

I have the Niche Zero that I use for espresso and a 1Zpresso ZP6 that I use for filter. I’ve currently backed the 078s but am thinking about a switch to the 078. It sounds like I would gain in espresso over the Niche with the 078s (and maybe filter relative to Niche but not to ZP6). I wonder if there are any gains in filter going from the ZP6 to an 078, and, if so, if the gain would be greater than what I would get for espresso between Niche and 078s. In other words, given the same coffee and water, would switching from Niche to 078s improve my espresso (while continuing to use ZP6 for filter) more than switching from ZP6 to 078 would improve my filter (while still using Niche for espresso)?

[@zelcadin]

Hey don't know if you have your machine yet but if I would recommend you switch to the 78. You already have a niche and having both a niche and 78s seems a little redundant. Use niche for espresso and 78 for filter.

[@HansProbs]

The video is so cool and it blows by so fast for a 30 min video!! But all of the folllow-up Lance is doing is astounding and the reason why Lance is easily the #1 resource in specialty coffee right now. Someone give this man a hug.

[@Phil_OG]

How does the 078s for filter compare to a 1zpresso q2 heptagonal or similar?

[@LanceHedrick]

I'm choosing q2

[@Phil_OG]

@@LanceHedrick Alright thanks!

[@pj8752]

@@LanceHedrick And compared to 064 ? Do you feel like it's an upgrade from Q2 ?

[@Yirgamalabar]

@@LanceHedrick What about the K-Plus and K6? I own both and pledged for the 078s, hoping it will not only complement my Sette 270Wi (for higher clarity espresso) but also be great for pourover...

[@EverythingIsPhotogenic]

The video so many have been waiting for! When you say "you can't really switch out the burrs" in the 078S, is that only based on Timemore's conservative stance and lack of alternatives or do you believe the tolerances will truly be prohibative to swapping to their own Turbo burrs or any forthcoming aftermarket options? I understand their stance not wanting to cover warranty replacement for heavy-handed tinkerers, but I am curious about the level of risk.

[@moshter11]

They wrote in KS comment section that they will sell the burrs separately later on. I hope they do something like the niche duo where they'll make it easy to swap the burrs. Bummed to hear Lance say the 078s burrs suck so much at pour overs.😢

[@mcst6969]

I read on reddit someone already switched the stock burrs with the 80mm ssp burrs. They just fit fine. But I think this machine going to be popular, so there are probably going to be some aftermarket 78mm burrs soon.

[@moshter11]

It will probably make sense to get the 078 with the turbo burrs first and then wait for aftermarket espresso-specific burrs to be released later since the 078s seems to be just okay... it's probably going to be USD400 for a 78mm burr set though...

[@chrisdturner]

​@@mcst6969 really? I'm surprised they would fit. If that is possible I'd be very interested. Do you know if this was a straight forward install or did it require some warranty ending jiggery pokery?

[@cabaretampere]

@@mcst6969 Do you remember where you saw this?!

[@Inserico]

Thanks Lance for the detailed review. You mentioned you'd go for the 078 (non-S) model, but is that still the case if I drink exclusively espresso drinks? Or would you say the 078S still be more suitable in my case?

[@ColinHuth]

After (accidentally) getting my father to back an 064 too, it felt great to say *“and Lance will put it through its paces, if there are issues he’ll definitely find them.”* Thanks so much for the exhaustiveness of your testing, Lance, it really does give us way more buying confidence.

[@siphawtia4647]

Thank you sir nice video ❤ I'll stick with O78S I believe is better then df83 or niche duo 😉

[@caeitreim]

Thanks Lance, really appreciate the thorough review! Probably switching to an 078 based on your thoughts, but I was wondering, do you think it would be easy to modify the 078 to be stepless? Can the bearings/springs be easily removed? Thinking this would allow me to repurpose the grinder for espresso in the future if I changed the burrs

[@moshter11]

I would love to know this too!

[@michaelbrambram]

solid review! I backed the 78s after watching this video. Do you think that the variable rpm can act as a "micro adjustment" for espresso ?

[@CornusXelor]

Good video but feel like more info on the 78s would be good. The review gives the impression that you are not a fan of it overall. While it is probably the best espresso grinder at its kickstarter price it would of been nice if you gave it a range....

[@BensCoffeeRants]

Yeah seems a bit negative focusing on filter and comparing to filter oriented grinders /burrs. When it was the best for espresso of the group. But I feel a comparison with the DF83 or Niche DUO (not ZERO) would be a better comparison. Both of which are currently MORE expensive. So Regardless the 078s is a great deal.

[@morning91]

I thought the same thing. Would love a bit more on the 78s, especially about the range

[@BensCoffeeRants]

@@morning91 the thing is this isnt the actual 078s here. The 078s has a different dial with more fine points on it for dialing in espresso and maybe a different range of adjustment. Not sure but hopefully can still go coarse for non espresso brewing. My other concern would be if the 078 turbo burrs would work in the 078s body if they change the burr adjustment towards espresso. We know it works the other way with 078s burrs working decently in the 078 body which is what we see here and in other reviews so far.

[@mattw1428]

Thanks for doing this review Lance! I’m so happy that you took your time on this one to deliver another fantastic video. Keep up the stellar work!

[@LanceHedrick]

appreciate you! So glad you enjoyed it.

[@royvangroningen3025]

Would you recommend 078s and swap with turbo burrs later or buy the Ode Gen 2 now?

[@tzetv]

Thanks again @LanceHerick - I think one of the fascinating questions for those who drink both Filter and Espresso equally is whether a combination of a 078 for filter + either an 064S with SSP or 078S for Espresso produces a result that betters more expensive options than a P64, Weber etc trying to run as a Espresso/Filter combined grinder

[@dukhwanee]

YAAS KING, watching this now.! been waiting for this, thank you Lance!

[@peshmerge44]

so for someone who only wants to drink espresso the 078s is gucci?

[@jakeg1117]

Thanks so much for the in depth video. So psyched to get my 078 in the mail, and can't wait to feel FOMO when your next vid comes out :)

[@LanceHedrick]

appreciate you!

[@ShuhDonk]

I bought a 078 and a 078S, looking forward to receiving them. Will be selling my ode gen 2 with ssp burrs, my niche zero and femobook once they arrive after some testing to determine my 2 favorites.

[@jrvergaraa]

Thanks Lance! As someone who will only use the grinder for espresso, do you recommend the 078S or is there anything better for that price in the market? (Fist grinder will not upgrade in 3-5 years) thanks!!!

[@slenkhar]

​​@@Arzudeus Only thing is a DF83 with SSP burrs is like... 2.4x more expensive, so a completely different budget.

[@jrvergaraa]

Thanks! My budget between espresso machine and grinder is 1500-1750 usd, so the 078S looks like a really nice option.

[@slenkhar]

@@jrvergaraa sorry, DF83 may be cheaper in the US, as Lance was pointing out on another comment, you may wanna check locally, in the UK it doesn't make sense. I'm going by UK pricing retail DF83 vs 78s KS pricing.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

@@slenkhar DF83 is well priced, but SSP burrs in 83mm are pretty pricey! Timemore with 78mm burrs which are about the same surface area (maybe larger) is a killer deal for less $$.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

I don't think there's anything better for the price, even if it's not the BEST FILTER grinder :D

[@haakhell]

Which one do you prefer purely for workflow, not concidering taste, 078S or Niche Zero? Also, how do they compare in size. I have not seen the Niche and 078S side by side, so cant tell how big the 078S is 🤔

[@Arzudeus]

I can't say about the overall workflow but Lance said he preferred dialing in with the Niche.

[@jlyt18]

how is the espresso on the 078s compared to the df83 stock? df64v w/ssp MP? niche duo? is the 83 still your sub 1000 king? If I were to go with a 078 turbo for filter, what would be a good pairing for the espresso side of the house? 078s? or Still the DF83? And if i am to get a DF83 +078, thats 1300 in grinders total at that point do you just bite the remaining 300 for the lagom p64? or get the zerno? or are 2 grinders just inevitable? thank you so much for the incredible review lance! i pledged basically all 4 so you are a huge help in my decision making. Very bored of my niche 0.

[@TheGroundedCoffee]

I backed the 078s but I have to say I'm not really sure of it's a good replacement for my DF64. Thinking about pulling out and switch burrs instead. Thank you for grinding this out over 2 months for us, Lance.

[@mberlinger3]

Same here I just hate the workflow on the df64. Do you as well?

[@TheFriskyBoy]

Same

[@erikngomez]

Maybe lance will chime in here but I have the same question and also hate the workflow of my DF64

[@TheRockyBalboa100]

@@mberlinger3 i read that multiple times. What is it with the workflow of the df64?

[@TheGroundedCoffee]

@@mberlinger3 well I don't really hate it, but I dislike bellowing and getting coffee grounds everywhere. What I also don't like is all the fines you get in the end of the grind, so you need to grind straight into a portafilter if you want to avoid clogging up your basket with them, which makes things even more messier.

[@cabaretampere]

Do you regret predicting that the 078 with espresso capability will dominate everything under 1500 bucks? I'm not being an asshole, I'm genuinely interested and appreciate how honest you are in your reviews.

[@KanielD]

Exciting!!! These, The Meticulous, & the Ratio 4 are the only things that have me excited right now. Thank you!

[@nagarajuarun10]

Ratio 4?? Do you have info on this?

[@KanielD]

@@nagarajuarun10 I only seen it briefly in Kyle Rowsell’s recent SCA expo video

[@matheuseduardo4334]

Hi Lance, How would you compare the 078s with the zp6(Wich I cunrrently have)? I was thinking of buying the 078s and then switching to the 078 burrs when available (since the 078 is not available in my country, sadly). Thanks for the video, love your content!

[@gabejacobsen8903]

Same question! Wanted something for espresso that would also do well on filter. Sounds like it won’t be super practical switching back and forth between the two burr sets though.

[@paul-1124]

Same! It would be great if the 78s and 64s was tested on filter brews as most of us only have the budget for 1 grinder

[@Jarisuper]

I've got the 64s for the early bird price, I currently own a Eureka Mignon. I wanted a grinder for filter/espresso with a better workflow. Should I reconsider my pledge and go straight for 064 for filter and keep the Eureka or plan on upgrading the burrs later?

[@davidliao2663]

Mahlkoenig x54 or timemore 078s if espresso only or as combo filter/espresso?

[@DriftingJasmine]

The question I need answered. I’m so torn now. Wondering if the timemore is worth it just to get a good price. I don’t plan to buy another grinder anytime soon after getting it 😭

[@pieterpan]

This is my dilemma too, right now... The 078s' limited range for espresso turns me off.

[@atavax3420]

I would say one thing that was left to be desired review wise is I don't really know how good the 064s and 078s is on brew. Like I know they aren't as good as the ode with gen 2 burrs, but like what are they better than at brew? Are they better than the ode with gen 1 burrs?

[@LanceHedrick]

Ode Gen 1 for larger batches does a good job. Just not capable of small batches, really. I'd say it is most comparable to a pourover from something like the kinu

[@wernc.]

@@LanceHedrick i think the Kinu is delicious for pour over - does this mean the 064s actually does brew pretty competently with filter coffee?

[@jjevans1511]

Amazing thanks! Lance, did you do the filter TASTING comparison with REMOVING THE GROUNDS FROM THE FINES CLEANER or did you use all the coffee? WHITE or BLACK, Lance? In camera lighting it’s hard to tell. @Fellow KZbinrs: Please like the comment if you have the same questions

[@JustinCollett-vy4vg]

Thanks for another great video Lance! I’m fairly new to espresso and have spent the last 20mins reading these comments. I watched this video and ordered a 078 with intention of brewing espresso. Can I change burrs to do so?

[@LanceHedrick]

078 cannot do espresso. You can change to 078s burrs for espresso. Also ssp is supposedly working on a pair of burrs for 78mm

[@DiegoNunes]

Lance, thanks for the super effort to release this incredible review in such short time.

[@LanceHedrick]

I appreciate it! Hope you all enjoy ;)

[@noelscruggs5670]

Got my popcorn ready for movie night reviews with Lance! Love how detailed you are!

[@justinham8281]

Hey Lance, for clarity which grinder were you saying you would prefer a df83 with SSP HU to? The 078 or the 078s? I would think you mean the 078s as you seemingly love the filter coffee from the 078

[@slenkhar]

Yes, he was referring to the 78s

[@BensCoffeeRants]

Add up the cost for the DF83+SSP burrs though, from what I've heard the SSP HU burrs are a bit beter than the stock DF83 burrs but don't seem like they're worth the extra cost. They are coming out with MP unimodal burrs in 83mm which may be more worthwhile for those who like super high clarity light roast espresso and pour overs. OR the SSP Cast in 83mm for those who like a more traditional balanced profile, although I hated the 64mm SSP cast, I'm hoping the 83mm version will be better and more similar to the original 80mm lab sweet burrs!

[@teodorgheorghe8881]

Df83 or kinu, which is better for espresso?

[@Durrani1984]

Another fantastic video @LanceHedrick. Really appreciate all the effort that goes into it.. I know it’s super hard to recommend an all around ‘does it all’ grinder.. but if you had to.. what would you recommend for a person that kinda makes espresso and V60 pour over about 50:50 of the time? (The 078 or 078S.. or something else?) Thanks again!

[@ChrisPagliuca]

Would you choose the 64s or 78s over the DF64v?? Mainly being used for espresso

[@JusBThankful]

Here it is. The internet can calm down now finally.

[@exooptik]

I bought a timemore fish kettle because it seemed like a great alternative to ekg at like 75% of the price. Around 8 month in it stopped heating water all the way to 100 and would stop at 95-ish. Another 6 months and it could only reach 85C and would stop heating. Timemore support told me that is a known problem and they suggest to get a new kettle. That felt really terrible and wasteful and I asked to get it fixed. They told me I can only exchange the kettle with a mew one and not fix it. I decided to give in and have them exchange it, but it turns out they have pulled out of my country and closed all the service points. I got an EKG and will never buy timemore products again. It was over a year after purchase so my bank could not do a chargeback or anything. Official ‘warranty’ is 2 years.

[@mikeontwitie]

Lance, coming from a timemore C2 for filter and a barista express for espresso, you think 064S would be a big improvement making me go "wow"? Or do I need the 078S for that...?

[@mikeontwitie]

Because I've never upgraded before and I have 0 clue on what to expect for the money.

[@S2580ss]

At the kickstarter price of €275 (as of now) the 064 really is a no brainer for me. My next option would be the Lagom mini or ode gen 2 and they’re close to €500 all in

[@adamg.manning6088]

Backed the 78S, and currently own a Niche and Fellow Ode Gen 2. I’m now even more confused as to whether the 78S would compliment either of the two grinders or if I should just cancel and stick.

[@errgo2713]

You have too many grinders

[@adamg.manning6088]

@@errgo2713 Your Dad has too many Grindrs.

[@9secs]

Sounds to me like you need to get rid of the niche. I currently use a vario for filter and espresso and backed the 78s for espresso so I can use the vario for filter only. I bet you can eventually sell the niche for at least what you pay for the 78s.

[@adamg.manning6088]

@@9secs Yeah. That what it looks like. It’s odd. I thought the 78S would compliment the Niche for Espresso and Filter, but it seems it would fall short on the later. You’re right about selling the Niche. I wouldn’t lose much.

[@ahmedkandil1755]

Anyone else a little concerned about the narrow range on the S models for espresso? Personally im upgrading from a Breville Smart Grinder Pro and drink both filter (Moccamaster) and espresso (Breville Dual Boiler). Ive backed the 078s from launch but am wondering if i should be looking elsewhere for a do it all grinder...

[@chrisdturner]

I don't think the range seems that bad but might need slightly more careful adjustment to dial in compared to the niche

[@morning91]

I'm worried about this too. Would love a bit more comparison to the alternative in a similar price (DF83/NZ?)

[@timonagel367]

Lance I would love you to read a good night story. ❤❤❤ Sometimes I hear and not even watch your videos. Love your English-speaking, your jokes and your detailed thoughts about all the technical stuff!

[@jasonlowther1694]

Hey Lance. Thank you for looking out for our best interest with your reviews. I really appreciate it. Quick question. What’s your thoughts of the cup quality for filter from the 78 versus the ZP6? I own the ZP6 (thanks to your influence) and I’m trying to gauge the advantages of moving up to the flat burrs.

[@LanceHedrick]

I prefer 078 but it is marginal enough I think 80% wouldn't appreciate the difference.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

Finally Time-MORE :D That threw me off. 7:12 Another review said they also had some stalling on the stock burrs but NOT on the SSPs for the 64s. I forget but I think it was the SSP MP burrs they put in. So the stalling was even with it on the highest RPM? It's kinda odd they limited it on the higher end. I feel like with the higher power motor on the 78 models, the RPM range COULD go lower. 10:30 Ahh that sucks, I was wondering WHY Timemore seemed so against swapping burrs, like that's what we do now, especially with 64mms get with the times! :D Tight tolerances are good though! It doesn't actually look that hard, just a lot of locking and loading! Also probably helps if you don't have coffee left in the chamber! 17:46 Not a great indication of quality control :O Which is basically my one main concern about these grinders especially with so many people backing them (and them needing to ship out a whole bunch quick!). Seems like the 78 models are better built at least. Really considering the price difference isn't so great, they should be built to the same (high) quality level. 24:30 Kinda weird everyone talks about the Niche Zero and it being so Rich / heavy body and very traditional conical burr espresso profile. I had one a while ago, I don't remember disagreeing that it had good body, but not sure I really paid much attention to body, I do notice the lack of it sometimes with burrs like the 64mm SSP MP, or even when I made the initial jump from a Specialita to a DF64 with stock italmill burrs! I noticed a big jump in clarity but then was kinda missing that body I previously took for granted (although I think I got used to the lack of body now, having a some higher end / higher clarity burrs/grinders). Why compare to the Niche Zero which is a very different grinder, and one I didn't think you were too fond, and not an DF83 or something more similar to the Timemore078/s?

[@florisb1]

I was actually wondering how the 064 compares in taste to the Ode with gen 2 Burrs. Very nice review though! :)

[@luke9822]

3:02 the weight of the cup dragging across the base is a bigger factor for scratches than the speed at which it moves.

[@LanceHedrick]

eh- the magnetization is weaker so it won't be pulling as tightly against the base.

[@b34k97]

Well, this is making me feel pretty good about snagging the 078 at the start of the kickstarter.

[@LanceHedrick]

heck yeah! Great price there.

[@joshuagoulden7467]

Hey man, amazing video, thanks for the effort you put in. I'm a little confused though, perhaps you can help me? I've already pledged for a 078s as I only make espresso, however I prefer to really accentuate the sweet notes in an espresso. With that in mind should I change my pledge to the 078 as the turbo burrs seem to do better at sweet notes? Or get the 078s because it is stepless, then in the future try and get hold of a pair of turbo burrs?

[@Tactim8]

Upgrading from an oxo burr grinder. I was about to get the ode gen 2, but then I came across the 78 kickstarter. I’m so excited to take the first significant upgrade in my coffee set with the 78 (besides a coffee subscription with fresh beans).