Kyogre VS Groudon Solo Challenge - Pokémon FireRed

Challenge Rules:
- I can only use my starter in battle.
- No items in trainer battles except held items.
- No glitches, exploits, or RNG manipulations.
- Accuracy moves aren’t explicitly banned but will be avoided.
- I will be playing these runs at 4x game speed
My footage will be edited to give what I consider a better viewing experience. This includes making cuts, fades, and adjusting the speed of the footage to match my commentary.
I use a software called "PKHeX" to edit my starter, setting things like it's Nature, and IVs to be perfect 31s, or marginally reduced to give specific Hidden Power typing to optimize strategy. All of the Pokémon I use are 100% attainable in the base game. The software allows me to create my "perfect" egg Pokémon in a much shorter timeframe.
PKHeX also allows me to set my Pokédex total to max after the Round 1 Elite 4. A requirement of Round 2 is catching 60 species and I am only interested in the potential of the Pokémon that I'm running instead of my ability to catch Pokémon optimally.
Pokémon music, images, & names © 1995-2023 Nintendo/Game Freak.
Support my content through KZbin Memberships: www.youtube.com/@Eggsceptiona...
Support my content through Patreon: / eggsceptional

[@pikarceuseternamax6269]

As I see it, Kyogre is surrounded, as guess what's under the ocean, that's right, MORE GROUND

[@Eggsceptional]

Solid point... But Ocean does cover 71% of the Earth's surface.... Assuming of course that Poke-Earth is similar to ours. Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald was like 90% water.

[@treyparkerofficial]

​@@Eggsceptionalyeah. 7.8/10. Too much water.

[@ironmanandspidyroc]

and ...still not weak to ground... ?

[@xbuttonsx]

The legendaries almost need their own tier list, they're just so far beyond what a normal pokemon can do. I wonder what a Regigigas run would be, I feel like it would just be brutal with the slow start on every single battle.

[@Eggsceptional]

I actually completely forgot about the Regis being in Gen 3! Once I get to it Regigigas is going to be a unique run that's for sure. It'll have to wait until I'm into Gen 4 though, or find a good way to bring later Gen Pokémon back to FireRed without altering the mechanics too much.

[@zaclittlejohn2701]

The regis only start with explosion till level 10 where they learn their first actual move, so they will need some help to start.

[@Eggsceptional]

@@zaclittlejohn2701 It's not a pressing issue but everytime it comes up I try to think of solutions. The best I can come up with is changing explosion to a weather effect or some low PP inert ability to get us over that initial hump

[@ziccy2]

Kyogre is my nostalgia pokemon

[@zaclittlejohn2701]

@Eggsceptional all the Regis learn lock on at a pretty high level, and it's useless till you get other moves. It might benefit regirock more if used once it gets to level 9 and learns rock throw(90%acc), while the others get metal claw (95% accurate), and icy wind (95%), but since you get rock tomb which is strictly better rock throw after you beat Roxanne it seems OK to swap lock on and explosion. The weather moves aren't ideal since 2 are weak to fire and 1 is weak to water, and sandstorm does damage.

[@really_named_dan]

Found your channel about 2 weeks ago when KZbin recommended the politoed vs poliwrath race I just want to say your videos are eggcellent especially given how small your channel is it’s great to see more fire red solo runs especially the round 2 fights

[@Eggsceptional]

I'm glad you're enjoying the content. I love putting out the Round 2 content! I've had a few comments mentioning that they didn't even know Round 2 existed. I love being able to spread awareness about mechanics in a game that's almost 20 years old :)

[@composur3]

I’ve never witnessed a channel grow as much as yours has since I first subscribed! The universe has big things planned for you and I’m excited to see what’s in store 😻

[@Eggsceptional]

As am I :)

[@corymurphy4459]

Congratulations on more than 750 subscribers! Another good weekly jump :) Thanks for the shoutout :) The reduced save menus make the footage a lot less distracting - thanks for making the change! Kyogre definitely seemed like a more intuitive 'mon - and when you mentioned the problem with Agatha and ghosts for Groudon, I felt so bad for it. They are really tough opponents for physical attackers, and rock type moves are typically inaccurate. And another week of limited sub strats (for one Pokemon, at least)!! Also, I appreciate the honesty with Groudon's game time. Mistakes are fine to make, especially if you own up to them. And keep your health as your primary focus. Burnout is a real chore. Great work on the video!

[@Eggsceptional]

Thanks Cory :) I always look forward to reading your comments. I'm glad that the change in footage made the video an easier watch. It's the small, and simple things that sometimes make all of the difference. The difficulties that physical attackers face in Gen 3 is real - I've been trying really hard not to rely solely on things like HP Rock because Rock Slide's 90% accuracy deters me so much from using it. I appreciate your support concerning burnout. I've experienced it enough in the past that I really need to temper my ambition with this channel. All good things in time :) Thanks again!

[@willlllllllb]

- finds a new pokemon solo challenge channel - checks description to see if location is listed - Canada First Mah Dry Bread, then Jrose11, then Scott's Thoughts, and now Eggsceptional. Canadians truly carry this subcommunity

[@Eggsceptional]

Yeah, eh? We spent a lot of long winters on our GameBoys growing up :)

[@Alekranidos09]

I am a Kyogre fan, sapphire was my first pokemon game, but i don't know why i was rooting for Groudon here. Underdog effect maybe? Hahah loved the vid!

[@Eggsceptional]

It's so weird considering such a powerful Pokémon as an underdog. Groudon definitely was though in this game. Thanks :)

[@blueash7077]

Also I would love to see a butterfree vs beedrill video at some point I love both of them should be interesting I think

[@Eggsceptional]

Coming up with good Bug matchups will be a lot of fun. I really want to experiment with them across generations. Like Butterfree vs Beautifly. More research is definitely required :) Love the suggestion!

[@AKingofBacon]

I love myself the landboi, but I think we all know Kyogre has the edge in challenges like this

[@Eggsceptional]

In Gen 3 especially! But Groudon is objectively cooler :)

[@kangaskdan]

Great race!! And so close!

[@Eggsceptional]

Closer than I imagined it would be! I was stoked about that, too. Groudon is awesome! I thought Kyogre was going to wipe the floor with Grou in Gen 3 anyway

[@chefgrizz6284]

The VS battle options for FRLG are endless. I can’t wait to see you grow good sir. Rodents v rodents or birds v birds could be insane too!

[@Eggsceptional]

Thank you :) I've had so many suggestions for runs that I don't think I'll be able to sleep for the next few years. Rodents and birds are definitely on the list.

[@katchtree]

Congrats on over 750!!!

[@Eggsceptional]

Thank you, #60 ;)

[@highwaystar4518]

that dnd plug wasnt even an ad 😂 same dude dnd is life

[@Eggsceptional]

It definitely changed mine! I don't need them to pay me for me to tell the world that I love their game :)

[@bananaspice1967]

Groudawg and lil Ogre facing off in the most epic rap battle in history

[@Eggsceptional]

Kyogre, the ocean's wrath, fierce and blue, Groudon, the land's fury, blazing through. Elements collide, skies filled with thunder, Witness the clash, this battle of wonder.

[@somerandomgoblin2583]

my bet's on kyogre- honestly, not for any particular reason other than that i played alpha sapphire a lot as a kid, and i loved being able to dive/surf on it! gen vi might not be the most difficult games in the series, but they have some of the best aesthetics by far! let's go, kyogre!

[@Eggsceptional]

As a kid I always thought Groudon had a cooler design and name, but playing Kyogre was my jam! Groudon needs the physical/special split introduced in Gen 4 to really being to shine.

[@MusicHavenSG]

Great thing about Kyogre is that using it is super intuitive and can easily counter type disadvantages without needing much optimisation. Being a special attacker makes intimidating ability completely useless, and having access to Water, Ice and even Electric types' strongest attacks gives it all the coverage you need with calm mind to further boost their damage and Kyogre's already sufficient bulk against Special attacks. Doesn't take away that Groudon is also strong, but it needs to address a few more weaknesses especially against Levitate and Intimidate.

[@Eggsceptional]

Good points all around! I'm looking forward to running them again in Gen 4 to see how much of an impact that phys/spec split makes. I predict a lot. Thanks :)

[@Rahikaine123]

Solid content, noice that i found your channel!

[@Eggsceptional]

Thank you I appreciate that! Glad to have you here :)

[@tylerhartman3034]

I definitely think you should have named Kyogre Oceanus the greek promordial god that personafies the sea! But im glad you finally did a run with both of them!!

[@Eggsceptional]

I was originally thinking about Poseidon but I wanted a naming scheme that would fit both Kyogre and Groudon. Hades and Zeus fell short for Groudon nicknames :P Oceanus was 100% a contender with Gaius for for Groudon.

[@Neoxalfa]

Now we need a rayquaza run to see how it compares to groudon and kyogre ☺️

[@Eggsceptional]

I'm so interested in it! Especially with the lack of the weather textbox at the start of every battle.

[@antoniolara9004]

Ohhh you did not disappoint when you said you had something in the works!!! Let's get it on! Team Groudon!!!

[@Eggsceptional]

These two were so much fun to play!! Groudon is so much cooler. In this generation, especially this game, Kyogre is just too strong though.

[@antoniolara9004]

@@Eggsceptional to be fair without the split Groudon playing one arm behind his back lol. After having watched the video I concede gen 3 to Kyogre but, if you ever decide to do later Gen runs, I would be very interested in a rematch. Great vid as always. Very eggceptional 😂

[@Eggsceptional]

@@antoniolara9004 Thank you :) I do intend to break into Gen 4 at some time in the not too distant future starting with a nuzlocke to learn the game. I'm stoked to rematch these two with more updated mechanics! It'll be eggsquisite!

[@YycAdrian]

Cant wait !! 🎉❤

[@Eggsceptional]

Neither can I!! I had so much fun making this video :)

[@benpickett2267]

I absolutely LOVE the reference to Ms Frizzle from the original Magic School bus series

[@Eggsceptional]

It's so fitting!! Love the Friz :) Thanks!

[@benpickett2267]

@@Eggsceptional love your videos btw been watching for a while

[@Eggsceptional]

@@benpickett2267 Thank you!! Plenty more to come :D I just need more time in a day....

[@benpickett2267]

@@Eggsceptional trust and believe I understand that. Keep truckin mate. You got this

[@Eggsceptional]

@@benpickett2267 ​ @benpickett2267 I appreciate it. Thank you :)

[@jptheflipper3825]

Eggcellent as always sir. you did my boy Groudon justice, he is not easy in Gen 3, the Gen 4 physical special split did it a lot of favors, but you did what you could with him. I like the moveset you gave it, Rock Slide and Earthquake are a killer combo and swords dance is one of the best for boosts. I might of gone with a different nature, something like careful to boost the Special Defense, with bulk up instead of swords dance, it could of been a hard hitting tank. I look forward to what you have next. the Nidos in particular of course, but also some bug type runs. I have an idea for a VS as well. Tentacruel VS Quilfish, both poison water types, just one is special and the other physical, it could be cool to compare

[@Eggsceptional]

Thank you :) I agree that the physical/special split would have helped Groudon a ton. I'm imagining something like Fire Punch with Drought and actually using the 150 base Atk instead of (somehow) lacking 90 SpA. I had considered a different Nature but I felt that tankiness wasn't an issue - I had a need for speed. The Nidos will come.. in time! Tentacruel vs Quilfish would be interesting. In FireRed I'd put my money on Tenta simply because Water is such an incredible type and Quilfish might be found wanting with its higher Atk. I've added it to the list!

[@jptheflipper3825]

​@@Eggsceptional Special Groudon isn't so bad, 90 bass Special is better than both Ndios and a lot of the Special bugs you'll be running. with the right EV training and nature a moveset of solarbeam, flamethrower, dragon Claw (or thunderbolt) with earthquake for STAB could be deadly, but you are right, a post physical special split would be better, Groudon at its best. I look forward to the Nidos immensely as for the Tentacruel VS Quilfish, I think Quilfish will surprise you, its quite different to Tentacruel in more than just its Stats, its movepool is unusual, but effective, my last one had Pin missile, HP Rock, Sludge Bomb and Waterfall for Fire Red and was kind of a beast. I'm in the middle of a Poison only challenge, Fire Red vs Leaf Green, a full time of poison types vs a completely different full team of poison types and this included King Vs Queen and Tentacruel vs Quilfish and Quilfish felt easier, easier to EV train for physical than SpA I guess

[@Eggsceptional]

@@jptheflipper3825 Physical is definitely easier to train. In Kyogre VS Groudon I didn't do any specific EV training, only the vitamins and Groudon's Atk had 150 EVs whereas Kyogre's SpA only had 111 EVs by the end of the runs. FireRed is just such an odd game but that makes it so fun to play with. There have been a few people commenting about a Special Groudon but I think my biggest hold back was the lack of a Special set up move. That Quilfish set sounds super cool I'm looking forward to doing that run. Eventually... so many things to do :)

[@jptheflipper3825]

@@Eggsceptional you see what I mean with the Special EV training, unless you use a VS Seeker it is very hard properly train a special attacker. for some of my runs I save before every battle and if there are no SpA EV's or too many of other EV's I reset and skip it, not great for times though. and yeah fair point with the lack of Special set up move, I avoid set up if I can, Gen 3 is very status move heavy and set up gives the opponent time to make use of that, Double Team, Weather, their own set up, poison, sleep, confusion, look at Agatha, she is a nightmare to the unprepared, I never go into her without a Berry to help, especially a Lum Berry. Quilfish is going to be fun, I think it gets a boosting move, maybe swords dance and it gets reversal as a level up, I'll have to look up its egg moves, I know you like them for a VS

[@Eggsceptional]

@jptheflipper3825 Very true! I'm trying hard to not abuse the VS Seeker in my runs simply because of the time investment required. There will absolutely be a Pokémon at some point where I really need to nail down optimal EVs to complete the run but I haven't found that yet. Kyogre also didn't do any additional training so if I'd paused to take on the Channelers in Pokémon Tower, and the trainers in Sabrina's gym I'm sure it would have had more SpA. The EVs are definitely skewed towards Atk though. Cycling Road is almost all Atk EVs and even Route 12 on the other side has so many Goldeens that I'd rather take Cycling and skip more trainers. I just found out about a few more berries around the world, including Lums, that I can grab. You're right about the status conditions. It's why Substitute is so darn powerful in FireRed :)

[@deadpool425fjf8]

Been catching up on your videos. Quite nice to see the gen 3 legendaries. If i have some suggestions, i guess either Heracross or a Misdrevious vs. Murkrow race?

[@Eggsceptional]

That's an interesting one. Why Heracross specifically? I really like Misdreavous vs Murkrow! Edit: Wait... Heracross solo? Then the versus. Excuse the lag time of my brain sometimes :)

[@deadpool425fjf8]

@@Eggsceptional Yeah Heracross solo. Just throwing out that idea since it is a favorite Bug type pokemon.

[@Eggsceptional]

@@deadpool425fjf8 I've been looking for an eggscuse to to Heracross since doing my Scyther VS Pinsir run. It's on the list :)

[@valor1omega]

Nice crazy frog by Axle F reference. Didn't think anyone else remember that.

[@Eggsceptional]

It's astounding the little things that rattle around in our brains after all of these years, eh?

[@winek2036]

I dont know if it have any impact with speed up but to save time names should have one letter or in this vs runs be same length. But probably with speedup it saves nearly no time. 2nd run you change them, as always great video.

[@Eggsceptional]

Very true! I always do the first playthroughs blind so I can really get the full experience with the Pokémon. That inefficiency in and of itself is far more than losing some frames to a slightly longer name. But you're right! That's why in the second playthrough I always use 1 character names :)

[@fredsnorgaming]

Heej nice video's a tip i wana give you is use super repels instead of max repel its cheaper over the long run

[@Eggsceptional]

Thank you! That's a great tip. I've discussed Repels in other videos, I tend to stick to Max because it fits my routing better. Money is very rarely an issue for me in these runs :)

[@dunumber1]

When I was a kid I did a challenge like this for myself with Ruby and using only my Torchic and I thought to myself, man this would be so cool if I could do this with whatever Pokémon. 20 years later I’m watching videos of someone doing just that and answering my question of who is the best solo runner Pokemon. Anyway now that my rant is over, I would LOVE to see a Heracross run. The true bug Pokémon champ. I really think Heracross would beat Scyther

[@Eggsceptional]

I'm in the same boat! I remember doing more "challenge" style runs when I got my expansion pack for my N64 control that allowed me to plug my Blue and Yellow cartridges into Pokémon Stadium 2. That 3x "Dodrio" speed modifier changed my life! I'm so happy to be able to make these videos these days. Heracross is definitely in the not too distant future. I've received a lot of requests for it :)

[@pennzilla57soviets]

I loved this. You should do a mewtwo vs mew showdown. Also PICK THE DOME FOSSIL!!!

[@Eggsceptional]

I like it! But I think Mewtwo would kick Mew's butt into next week :) maybe Mewtwo VS Rayquaza and Mew VS Celebi? Alright I've been convinced.. next run will be all about that Dome :)

[@pennzilla57soviets]

@Eggsceptional that would be a good one too. Mewtwo is my personal favorite but he is WAY better than mew. Keep up the good work bro, I can't wait to see your channel hit 1 million. Don't forget us when you get to the top

[@Eggsceptional]

@@pennzilla57soviets I couldn't! It's everyone, such as yourself, lifting me up and showing so much support that motivate me to keep working hard and putting out these videos :) I'll owe every bit of success I achieve to all of you.

[@akagamino_moto]

आप अपने वीडियो में अधिक से अधिक अनुभव साझा करते हो, बहुत अच्छा करते हो!

[@Eggsceptional]

I'm glad you're enjoying the videos :)

[@nahte123456]

Closer than I thought honestly. Back in the older Gens it always felt like Groudon was the more defensive of the two, Drought gets rid of his water weakness basically and while his SpA isn't great Drought also lets him use strong Grass moves like Solar Beam and powered up Fire moves, which lets him deal with Grass, Ice, and Water types. It could be hard at times to really hit Groudon super effectively. Inversely Kyogre's Rain just helps Electric hit it with Thunder and it has to use Ice Beam for grass types. That being said Kyogre was the more offensive and typically in solo runs Offense>Defense because even if your a complete wall you'll get chipped down eventually. So that Groudon could keep up at all is great in my eyes.

[@Eggsceptional]

It was for me as well! I was tempted to have Groudon as a SpAttacker but the ability to set up with Bulk Up/Swords Dance was too hard to pass up. You're right about offense winning the day and for both Pokémon hitting harder was more important that type coverage in my opinion. Kyogre just did it better in this Gen :)

[@Aaron.Seabolt]

Team Kyogre all the way. Love the channel!

[@Eggsceptional]

Kyogre rocked that game! Nothing has even come close to beating it since!

[@Nlbq]

I subscribed bc of the ❤ you rock!

[@Eggsceptional]

Thanks! Glad you enjoyed the video :) and my inner 90s child

[@PurpleRaven300]

good video

[@Eggsceptional]

Thank you :)

[@Flameboythest]

As shit, here we go again! Looking forward to this one!

[@Eggsceptional]

Hope you enjoyed it! I had a ton of fun making this video :)

[@Silvitewolf]

even though one of your comments said you had too many ideas for, versus, heres more to please the YT algorithm Mewtwo vs rayquaza arguably the two best pokemon at the time celebi vs mew -cute mythical the legendary beasts vs the legendary dogs bulbasaur vs chicorita vs treeco the same fir the other starters. good work!

[@Eggsceptional]

Thank you! I've had a ton of suggestions, but there's always room for more! Mewtwo VS Rayquaza - already on the list, now with one more vote Celebi VS Mew - I like it but worry about them being too similar. I've been pondering this one in the back of my mind for a while Legendaries: all in time, likely with cross video statistics comparing Gen 1 birds VS Gen 2 beasts. December is going to be a month of starters :)

[@Speedrunner0218]

I am watching now. I predict Kyogre will win since I've played it before in white 2. Drizzle and surf with thunder and ice beam is downright broken

[@Eggsceptional]

Oh yeah. Kyogre was a steamroller for the entire playthrough

[@rainerabt7911]

I Like the vs challenges most

[@Eggsceptional]

I enjoy creating the VS format a lot but they're incredibly time consuming. I'm building resources to streamline my process so I can hopefully aim to make them as consistently as possible :)

[@SquallLionhart409]

Its so weird to me how coverage moves work for these two. Kyogre deals more damage with Surf than with neutral Ice Beam or Thunder. In fact, it deals more with surf than with SE Ice Beam. That water is not very effective against grass and water means both are still useful. Earthquake deals the same damage as SE Brick Break/Rock Slide. Fire Blast and Sunny Beam are both still good, hitting grass and water types super effectively... but off the lower special attack stat.

[@Eggsceptional]

It was a ton of fun to route honestly. Especially Groudon in the second playthrough. I'm looking forward to eventually facing these two off in Gen 4 once I break into those games so I can play them with more updated mechanics :)

[@adsyboy07]

Here at 825 subs 👏🏻👏🏻

[@Eggsceptional]

Glad to have you here :)

[@gameanalista725]

Gosto muito dos seus vídeos, eu já assisti todos.

[@Eggsceptional]

Google Translate is a wonderful tool. I'm so happy that you've enjoyed them! There are plenty more to come :)

[@mattprice302]

Haven’t watched part 2 yet but looking at it after Lorelei brick break needs to go and then put in Fire blast. One hit exeggutor and heracross immediately.

[@Eggsceptional]

It was a tough choice deciding whether or not to use Groudon as a mixed attacker. I felt that leaning into the physical side more because of Bulk Up was more beneficial.

[@Straven93]

37:36 My guess is it went for poison because the AI saw that it was faster so it didnt need to drop the speed

[@Eggsceptional]

Hmm, that's a likely reason. I'm just so used to being faster by the time I'm gacong Erika, I guess. Poison is a pain, but I'll take it over paralysis :)

[@pennzilla57soviets]

I did not know that thunder did that in the rain

[@Eggsceptional]

Weather is a great mechanic in these games! Unfortunately, it's not as fleshed out as it is in later Gens but still powerful.

[@bazior36]

Video has felt different than the others, kind of like it feels, well different

[@Eggsceptional]

I hope it was in a good way!

[@bazior36]

@@Eggsceptional of course it is always better to brake the mold

[@Eggsceptional]

@@bazior36 Even if Mold Breaker wasn't around until Gen 4? :p

[@dragonspight]

According to the katakana, you're pronouncing both of the names correctly. Except that Groudon is more like... Grawdon for some reason. Gonna go with your pronunciation there

[@Eggsceptional]

Hmm but.. Groudon.. Ground. Not grawnd :)

[@realkiller5428]

It’s unfortunate that groudon has such a bad typing for this gen and no split. I personally prefer Groudon myself but this is such an interesting versus

[@Eggsceptional]

I had a ton of fun with it, especially routing Groudon in the second playthroughs. In the future I'll be doing Gen 4 and beyond and I'm so interested in facing these two off again at some point with newer mechanics :)

[@realkiller5428]

@@Eggsceptional I’m pretty sure groudon will steam roll with gen 4 and beyond bc of the split

[@Eggsceptional]

@@realkiller5428 Only one way to find out! Once I develop the overlays and learn the games of course :)

[@simonmage7710]

It'd be interesting to see what Deoxys attack would do here 🤔

[@Eggsceptional]

Deoxys completely perplexes me. I'll just need to jump into it at some point because yes - that would be wild. We couldn't take a hit at all mind you.. but would we? My next legendary race will likely be Mewtwo VS Rayquaza. One day I'll play 'em all :) Thanks!

[@simonmage7710]

@@Eggsceptional that is exactly my thoughts aswell 😅 with high speed and both attack and special attack through the roof, it'd be interesting 😁 That sounds awesome! Cant wait for the result! 🤩

[@Eggsceptional]

@@simonmage7710 But you have to remember that it has like no defenses. I would be relying so much on our ability to one shot things. Especially in Round 2 that becomes a much harder thing to do without setup. Regardless, I can't wait to play all of these runs :)

[@siajosephmark273]

Ho do u change ivs?

[@Eggsceptional]

In a 3rd party software called "PKHex". Otherwise, with cartridges alone you're breeding and hoping for RNG to line up for many hours :)

[@alexhawkins7674]

Did you forget that Groudon is a ground type and has access to ground type moves? Groudon is primarily a physical attacker, so even if it did use fire type moves it wouldn't benefit from them in any meaningful way according to you. I feel like you just looked at Groudon and automatically assumed that because its red it must be a fire type.

[@Eggsceptional]

That was the entire first part of Groudon's playthrough. I've always KNOWN that it's Ground type, but the stubborn kid in me definitely sees "Red = Fire". I've learned a lot since doing these playthroughs, and Groudon very well might have benefitted from more use of sun boosted Flamethrowers. 100 base SpA isn't to be scoffed at after all. I'm very excited to replay them after the phys/spec split. All things in time, and hopefully more lessons learned along the way :) Thanks for the input!

[@dragonspight]

Should do a tournament bracket of all the legendaries ;)

[@Eggsceptional]

How would you propose I set that up? A new video per matchup is a lot of playthroughs without significant change, I feel. Like Kyogre might be able to shave off more time, but there's definitely a point of diminishing returns. Especially with this guy playing 😅

[@dragonspight]

@@Eggsceptional Definitely put some time between replaying the same mons. Could be something you revisit later on for the second and third (fourth? How many legendaries are there are this point) rounds. Or maybe just compare them all by time after the fact. I think they should definitely have their own category for tiering, though, so that you don't have to cram so many icons into one list

[@Eggsceptional]

@dragonspight That's a fair point. Creating a legendary specific tierlist may br necessary eventually but I just need more data. Which means more runs, which means more videos! Yes! I was thinking about the legendaries. There are still the Gen 1 birds, Gen 2 dogs, Gen 3 Regis, Mewtwo, Mew, Lugia, Ho-oh, Celebi, Latias/Latios, Raquayza, Jirachi, and Deoxys. That's a lot of videos right there nevermind rematches haha but I like the idea of creating a tournament style bracket for them. Thanks :)

[@dragonspight]

@@Eggsceptional More videos >:) Also 16 legendaries (excluding the regis since they're impossible in gen3 solo runs without some liberal changes) makes for a perfect bracket

[@Eggsceptional]

@dragonspight I've never played with any of the Regis. They seem... not so good 😕 more videos for sure. Once I develop my 3 way overlay I'll definitely start chipping away at that list :) moooaarrr videos!!

[@Joonesyy]

❤

[@Eggsceptional]

[@BlueRedGooGoo]

I just realized that you and I say their names the same

[@Eggsceptional]

I always went with the way that sounded best to me. I'm glad others agree :)

[@adventureoflinkmk2]

17:20 or what about ff4... Cecil... sess-ull and not see-sul

[@Eggsceptional]

There are so many strange pronunciations that I've learned as I've gotten older. Tidus vs Teedus blew me away the most though that's for sure

[@briancaster2876]

I suspect kyogre will win this battle, lets watch and see if im right!

[@Eggsceptional]

Both did incredibly well, but running this in Gen 3 before the pre physical/special split really hurt Groudon. I hope you enjoyed the watch!

[@scipocelah6677]

Great Run! But I noticed that you do something that I've seen Scott's Thoughts suffer from in many of his runs, you underestimate the lesser attacking stat when it comes to super effective hits. The best example is his Flygon run in Emerald, he could have easily swept Wallace by adding Giga Drain to his Flygon's moveset, but because Flygon has lower Special Attack than Attack, Scott completely disregarded it as an option. I ran some calcs, without knowing your Groudon's actual stats at the start of the Round 2 Elite 4 in Playthrough 1, I based the EVs off of perfect IVs and 40 Health EVs to match the HP stat, then just used 40 across the board, so the actual damage ranges may vary, but on Dewgong: 1xSword's Dance + Earthquake/Rock Slide is high chance to ohko, but guaranteed 2HKO, but it's only a 1-2% chance to OHKO Cloyster, due to Cloyster's phenomenal defense stat (even at +4 it's a range on Cloyster). However, Solar Beam, even with an Adamant Nature, is a guaranteed OHKO on Cloyster. 1x Swords Dance + Earthquake is a guaranteed OHKO on the following Piloswine and Jynx, and a likely OHKO against Lapras. So, just by adding Solarbeam to your moveset, you remove a turn of setup against dewgong and get a guaranteed OHKO on the Cloyster. Adding a special move doesn't really help against Bruno, Agatha, Lance, or the Champion, as you'd still need +2/+4 to guarantee OHKO the problem pokemon. and the Fire/Electric/Grass coverage isn't really helpful against their other mons, and even where it IS helpful, having +2 or +4 is more than enough for the attack stat to handle it. Seems like Groudon isn't as big of an offender as Flygon was, as it's coverage and the Elite 4 aren't as tilted as the Emerald Elite 4, but it is helpful to know for future runs, that just because one offensive stat is higher than the other, doesn't mean that the lower stat is worthless when coverage exists. (For example: A neutral natured Groudon using a 100 BP Ground Move against a Wailord is only 3.7% more damage than using a 100 BP Grass Move against the same wailord. Wailord has the matching Def and Sp.Def stats, and despite the 150 Base Atk Stat on Groudon, the 90 Base Sp.Atk with a 2x multiplier is still a force to be reckoned with.

[@pennzilla57soviets]

What a nerd

[@Eggsceptional]

I'm glad that you've brought this all up. I've definitely noticed some.. narrow-mindedness in my strategies as I do more of these runs. I fall quickly into certain strategic realms and want to be more open to other possibilities. You're absolutely right - I saw 150 base Attack and 90 base SpA and immediately, almost completely, disregarded anything with SpA as a viable option. But if you walk through the damage calcs 150 BP is still less than 90 BPx2 with type effectiveness. I love the way you crunched out the Lorelei fight to optimize 1 turn of set up. I love these games :) If you're curious my IVs were perfect 31s in all stats for both Pokémon and at the end of the runs my EV spreads were as follows: HP, Atk, Def, SpA, SpD, Spe for Kyogre: 44, 92, 93, 111, 36, 134, and for Groudon: 48, 150, 95, 58, 37, 122. I find the EV distribution one of the most challenging things to route effectively, therefore making damage range calcs more difficult to nail down. I'm getting better at it (I hope!!) Thanks for the great comment :)

[@Eggsceptional]

Heck yeah I'm a nerd. Own it :)

[@scipocelah6677]

It's very easy to fall into that trap of "but my attack/special is higher!" but if you think about an average pokemon, 90 base is really good! Charizard has 109 base special attack, so groudon is only slightly weaker that Charizard on the special side. It's great that you're aware of these traps and are trying to avoid them. I know it's one of my big weaknesses in Pokémon games. I find that Mon that I'm like "I'm going to make you work dangit!"

[@Eggsceptional]

@@scipocelah6677 Right? It is super easy to fall into the traps. Like the Substitute trap I've been trying to avoid, but sometimes there truly isn't a better option. I realized too that my biggest deterrent from Special Groudon was the lack of set up while having access to Bulk Up and Swords Dance. I wish Nasty Plot and the like were in these games. Next Gen!

[@cttommy73]

Substitute is like the worse move to learn because it is so cheaty as it breaks the AI.

[@Eggsceptional]

I don't feel it's cheaty. It definitely messes with the AI but it also isn't a cure-all like Double Team. I try not to use it all the time because it is so powerful but since the metric I place the most weight on is Real Time and if it's the fastest strat it's what I'll go for

[@valor1omega]

He talks about how we should treat animals with respect as he is participating in pokemon fighting for money, lol

[@Eggsceptional]

Hey now.. Well. Yeah. But battling Pokémon is like taking your dog for a walk, right? It keeps them active! Please tell me right...

[@Khazuki_]

this is going to be ridiculously lopsided

[@Eggsceptional]

The results surprised me that's for sure.

[@mattprice302]

Kyogre learns Thunder via level up. What happened to that???

[@Eggsceptional]

Not to my knowledge it doesn't. Thunder is TM only for Kyogre as far as I know. Maybe it was in a romhack?

[@mattprice302]

@@Eggsceptional it does in emerald on my mom it does lol. That’s crazy they took it out

[@mattprice302]

@@Eggsceptional def learns it in emerald level up no hack

[@Eggsceptional]

@@mattprice302 Weird! It's been a long time since I've played Emerald so I can't say for sure. Either way Thunder on Kyogre rocks!

[@mattprice302]

@@Eggsceptional Kyogre is broken lol one of my fave legendaries for sure. Love the content man. Subscribed

[@rjagad]

Kyogre is superior to groudon, imo because drizzle

[@Eggsceptional]

In Gen 3 absolutely! I'll be interested to run these two again after the phys/spec split in Gen 4. Thanks ;)

[@rjagad]

I still think Kyogre is superior because It gets Water moves booster and has water spout@@Eggsceptional

[@Eggsceptional]

@@rjagad Fair enough! STAB Surf is something to be reckoned with. I'm hoping that it tilts things in Groudon's favour a least a little more. Physical Fire moves would be nice....

[@rjagad]

12:24 Really? Really??? You had to.

[@Eggsceptional]

I can't help myself! The Frizz was my teacher too!

[@SbflameGaming]

No ancient power omniboost😢

[@Eggsceptional]

They're so satisfying when you get them!!

[@SbflameGaming]

Yeah I had a mirror move blaziken and got Omni boost first try

[@aryana1879]

Hi :)

[@Eggsceptional]

Bonjour! :)

[@davidlee2052]

Grumbar is gnarly!

[@Eggsceptional]

Grumbar shook the ground with every step :)