L-Mount vs Micro Four Thirds, who has the better lenses?

[@williamburkholder769]

Pretty balanced commentary... I believe Micro 4/3 will be around for a long time, even as full frame L-Mount systems continue to expand. Boomers are retiring. As we become more frail, and still want to travel, the appeal of those lighter, smaller M43 lenses becomes HUGE. It's a lot easier to grab a 100-400mm than a 150-600mm full frame lens. The long lens options for M43 are ALL lighter and smaller and more affordable than full frame choices. That said, the applications for M43 are just different enough to justify having two systems. I know some filmmakers seriously thinking about maintaining an S5 IIX and a G9 II and using them for different situations. Arguably, the full frame system shallow depth of field is a great thing to have at focal lengths below 200mm, while Micro 4/3 is a great format for focal lengths longer than 100mm, due to its inherently greater depth of field than the full frame equivalent of 200mm when used at the same apertures. There are good use cases for every format from smartphone cameras to 8x10 film.

[@MoonbearDiedHere]

For me I’m sticking with my Sony a7s iii for FF and using my GH5 again for mft. I have 3 lenses for each. I picked up a Panny/Leica 8 - 18mm a month ago. I almost returned it a few days ago because I wasn’t sure if I wanted to invest further in to mft but then I had a fun day with the lens & kept it. It’s not always about the specs. It’s about using the camera and enjoying it

[@aiseurnae5976]

Seriously, I think the A7SIII and the GH5 are the only camera I should have bought (maybe also the S5 mark I for the ultimate video quality). I have almost every Lumix GH and S cameras like the S5,S1,S5II, the GH6, G9II etc. But these two cameras have amazing features like 4K FF 120fps/very good AF on the A7SIII and great IBIS/zero altered details on the GH5. GH6, S5II and G9II are disappointing for me because of the bad details rendering in 4K.

[@MoonbearDiedHere]

@@aiseurnae5976 Interesting take. I gave myself 3 months starting in Feb before I decide if I still want to buy the g9 ii or continue to wait for a GH7 or baby g9 ii in a smaller body while I keep using the two main cameras I have.

[@azjoe_6310]

When I want ideal bokeh for portraits and everything lines up this is what I do: I put on my 35-100 2.8 lens, dial in 75 mm (actual), aperture set to 2.8, separate my subject from as much of the background as possible, compose and shoot. It's like many things in life: Adapt.

[@RhettThompsonFilm]

I always loved the bokeh on the 35-100! It’s like kinda swirly!

[@Narsuitus]

I shoot micro 4/3 and full frame lenses. For me, the image quality from both sets of lenses is of high quality. In my opinion, when compared to micro 4/3 lenses, there is a larger selection of full-frame lenses. In micro 4/3, I shoot Panasonic and Olympus lenses. I shoot four prime lenses and two zoom lenses. In full-frame, I shoot Leitz, Zeiss, Nikon, and Pentax lenses. I shoot dozens of prime lenses, ten Nikon zooms, and two Pentax zooms. The lenses range in focal length from 14mm to 1000mm.

[@jz_glass]

I have a super 35, full frame and m43. I tend to grab my GH5 7 times out of 10. Mainly for personal use. I am a hybrid shooter and lean towards video. I have the Panasonic 12-35, 35-100 and 100-300. Pretty much a complete kit and I love that I have most bases covered. If I’m going to just shoot photos I grab my full frame.

[@GeekyNerdyTechy]

Great points, Rhett. Spot on man!

[@MichaelGerrard]

I like m43, my favourite lens is the Oly 60mm f2.8 macro. You can't beat the size and weight advantage. Even that new 100mm L lens was still heavier and fatter. As a enthusiast who prefers small kit, do I need a bulky S camera and lenses? I think not. But who knows, if they make a range finder style body, I might be tempted.

[@SLCCWebmaster]

There are certainly great FF lenses, but I've been amazed at the consistently excellent image IQ of MFT lenses from Panasonic and Olympus. I've owned at least 15. Even the cheapest ones (well, maybe not the Oly 15mm bodycap) are very, very good. The 45-150, the 14-140, the 20/1.7, 14/2.5, even the tiny 12-32 are very, very good. I've owned some very mediocre Canon lenses.

[@RhettThompsonFilm]

There’s a few stinkers for MFT but almost all the L mount is pretty good but not much that’s outstanding. The Olympus 1.2 pros and the Leica 1.7 zooms are epic

[@katesavage2001]

LOL - when Rhett started talking about S lenses, my first reaction was "Why is he talking about Nikon?". I mostly use the Panasonic Leica 100-400mm as I love wildlife photography. However this morning one of my first thoughts was that I needed to take the 25-50 out for a walk.

[@RhettThompsonFilm]

I really want to pick up that lens at some point!

[@katesavage2001]

@@RhettThompsonFilm The M2 version of the 100-400 is better than the original. I traded in the original when I got the G9 M2 because the zoom was less stiff. Hunts Photo gave me a good trade-in credit because I had purchased the M1 used from them a few months before.

[@adidabax6809]

Nice summary. I keep looking for reasons to flip, but so far the gap isn't big enough. I like my small, Leica lenses too much as well... it just doesn't seem the same with the FF lineup yet, at least not at a reasonable cost or lens sizes.

[@RhettThompsonFilm]

Yea the closest you can get to a compact lens for the L mount is those F2 Sigmas although they are much more photo centric I think.

[@_Dibbler_]

I own a GH5M2 and a S5M2 and for photo the S5M2 is just better. For video? I havent decided yet, but the APSC crop in 60p diminishes the advantages of FF vs MFT. I am mainly shooting wildlife and sports and the higher versatility of FF lets me pick FF pretty much all the time. The much smaller weight of MFT does make it attractive though, its a lot easier to hold that GH5M2 steady, so filming without a tri/monopod is just way way more comfortable.

[@ericaceous1652]

How are you finding the S5 II for wildlife - and what lens/lenses are you using?

[@_Dibbler_]

@@ericaceous1652 I am using the Sigma 150-600 Sports. Kind of torn. I sometimes have great pictures and sometimes I struggle to get birds in focus. Black and white birds are a nightmare for the autofocus, it seems the autofocus doesnt know what to do with them. Pictures are often fine while for video the autofocus sucks. You focus a sitting bird, and you often loose focus completely when it starts to move / fly even though there is a box around it. When you have an animal in focus the pictures are great though

[@doctormock1]

Micro four thirds works for me. I go several times a week to my local park where I can photograph wildlife or landscapes. I usually bring two micro four thirds cameras (plus my old Lumix LF1) with me so I can have the 100-400 for wildlife and some shorter lens for landscapes. If a heron, hawk or egret shows up, you don't have time to waste changing lenses.

[@rudolfappel7236]

I changed from Nikon D700 full frame to OM-1 mkii MFT and am able to buy really fast and sharp zooms that I could never afford for full frame. Add the bonus of less weight an smaller sizes and you have enough reasons to compromise the background blur. Which you can get with MFT, but you need to be more creative.

[@BrookStockton]

This! I think you nailed it. When I realized my FF kit was smaller in some cases than my G9/Noct 42.5/1.2 I was like this is the end. I didn't feel confident my old DFD era lenses would preform as well as lens built after Panasonic eventually gave in and implemented phase detect. In the world of "marry the lens, data the camera" it's just really hard to make big bets on premium MFT glass. For sure there will be buyers, especially birders and die hard fans but I don't see MFT growing market share ever again. I'm not willing to invest in that destination.

[@filipmichalsaffray441]

Feel u totally my last MFT body was a used GH5s bought more than 2 years ago...still using it with my P4K...I think the P4K IQ will stay along...but I got almost no use for GH5 ( in multicam live setup) they are my spare cams...I started migrating to S5 2 years ago and actually never looked back...but I am picking sometimes my P4K because I love the image of it which is something special...

[@orfeasch6945]

For me it would be M43 with one annoyance: The sensor. If there was a way to achieve acceptable noise performance and -especially- dynamic range it would be a dream come true! Second to that is size. Considering what a Sony A7c offers in that size, one would guess MFT would be able to fit a little dynamite in there... yet small bodies with high performance are totally abandoned....

[@RhettThompsonFilm]

I disagree. The GH6 and G9ii are getting high end APSC prosumer levels of dynamic range and decent noise performance for a significantly cheaper price point for bodies and lenses plus way more filmmaker oriented features but I am of course a little biased haha

[@orfeasch6945]

@@RhettThompsonFilm i know you are mostly referring to videography, and i agree in that aspect (even though my Gx9 is quite limited on video specs, i won't complain about it). When it comes to photography though... I have very practical, everyday problems with dynamic range, even compared to my Nikon D7200 Dslr. Checking the exposure latitude tool on DPreview i can see the same issue on all Mft sensors. Don't get me wrong, i love Mft, but i see much unexplored potential

[@RhettThompsonFilm]

@@orfeasch6945 this is definitely true and I haven’t done THAT much research into the photo dynamic range although it’s always been serviceable for sure for my uses but I’m not a biggest pro photog out there

[@orfeasch6945]

​@@RhettThompsonFilm Hi Rhett! Exciting news! DPReview just released their test on G9 ii and it is astounding!! Its sensonr's DYNAMIC RANGE performs better than any other mft sensor! By a biiiig margin!!! It even surpasses some flagship aps-c cameras. If you google "Raw DR: Exposure Latitude" you can check the results. Noise performance is also improved but not at the same degree. You can check that ​ "DPReview Studio shot comparison". I'm beyond excited!!! 🤯🤯.Why arent more people talking about this? It is a game changer!!! If this sensor makes it to smaller bodied cameras... OMG!!

[@KathyXie]

The attractivness of the tiny lenses are questionable when the recent m43 bodies gh6, g9m2 are so big, yes the 35 100 2.8 is much lighter compared to sigma or lumix s 70 200 but you almost need to carry some camera bag for the gh6 or g9m2 anyway, there is nothing pocketable anymore from panasonic.

[@GrenlandUnderVann]

Lets face it, If I go FF now it would be better to buy Sony as the lens selection is amazing. They have all the fun wide angle lenses I crave for. 😛

[@michaeld5888]

I like Fuji myself but have hung on to my EM10 II as the 30mm macro is not easy to substitute in aps-c. The Fuji affordable macros are not macro and the 30mm 1:1 is very expensive and a short equivalent focal length for macro being more like a compact nose to the subject. Mirrorless aps-c is a bit of a mess really and often very expensive. So difficult to do everything in one brand which I would prefer and m43 definitely is the place for lens choice. This marketing nonsense of trying to persuade amateur users in to the old redundant 35mm film frame size, because it is the standard focal length and is 'full' frame and everything else is apparently a crop has not helped.

[@AlpacoFilms]

Fantastic video! Lots of great points! I agree with you, Full Frame is definitely something that's becoming standard, and MFT is becoming much more specialized and nice ( ultra budget and telephoto)

[@RhettThompsonFilm]

It’s like that for cameras and lenses!

[@CaveLiveMusic]

FF is "becoming a standard"? becoming...?

[@AlpacoFilms]

@@CaveLiveMusic yea maybe not standard but definitely much more easily accessible and becoming something more companies are placing more money towards. Believe me, I'm not someone that advocates for "full frame" but I'm also not ignorant of what more and more companies are asking for.

[@CaveLiveMusic]

@@AlpacoFilms FF (35mm) has been the standard in photography since the late 1890's...

[@AlpacoFilms]

@@CaveLiveMusic oh yea for photography...I'm interested in filmmaking...it's becoming a standard in the film industry. I should have clarified. That's my fault!

[@angeloplayforone]

The problem of Lumix is not the lenses but 1. 2 incompatible system competing with each others in the same pricepoint. 2. Both systems has no low end under $1000 cameras with the latest technology. New users look at the entry level, under $1000 cameras with good PDAF and video. Think that Fuji, Nikon, Sony and Canon are better positioned to get new users into their system. The S series is targeting the Lumix MFT user who want to switch to FF to stay with Lumix.

[@huasheng9695]

that's why I want to have them both 🤣 from a sony 6400 user looking into a second system mainly shoot photo for birding street photography landscape and trying some vlogging g9ii s5iix s5ii

[@TheSannaeriksson]

Left Nikon for panasonic m43, then left panasonic for Olympus, now OM systems. Fantastic cameras and lenses and so versetile. I don’t think m43 will ”die”, there will always be people who want’s smaller camera systems.

[@RhettThompsonFilm]

I hope I get a chance to work with them. Their lenses are great but I’ve NEVER got my hands on a camera.

[@JeffBourke]

The GH7 with PDAF already announced in China.

[@Bigcookfilms]

Lol

[@RhettThompsonFilm]

There were cameras leaked not for sure

[@jimgiraffe5253]

the s series has longer legs and its picking up speed but there will always be m43, thats my view

[@Bigcookfilms]

Left MFT in 2019 and although I miss the fun factor of MFT I could never go back because I can't adapt my S lenses to MFT

[@RhettThompsonFilm]

Have you seen TLDR Filmmakers hopes for a GH camera? An APSC sensor with options to do MFT and L would be pretty epic

[@berndmar]

There is a whole lot of photographers out there, who go out in the field, walking and climbing wer every gram of gear counts. Often exactly those photographers need long reach-lenses 400, 600, 800mm at least. What a difference in weight and money is there between MFT and full frame. Unfortunately you didn't mention that group.

[@tomCGNpics]

Looking on tele lenses there is surely a significant difference on prices and weight. If you do not want to go for highest possible IQ full frame beyond 200mm makes no sense to me. And using a 100mm e.a. instead and crop afterwards is not helpful in comparison to a 100mm on a MFT which would be a 200mm equivalent. I love my 50-200 MFT which feels smaller and lighter than the 2.8 Sigma FF 24-70mm. With a 400mm equivalent in your bag at a city trip you can really make some outstanding shots.

[@ericaceous1652]

I'm souring on Lumix, which is sad. I'm shooting wildlife, photo and video, and the G9 II seems like a good body for that - but then, the long lens choices from Panasonic for m43 leave a lot to be desired, particularly since the 200 2.8 was discontinued. Then full frame, I'm not sure the performance is there in the bodies yet - the lens selection isn't huge either, but the Sigma 500 5.6 is a welcome addition. Im beginning to think that Nikon is the better option for hybrid wildlife shooting. OM seems alright for stills, but lacks the video functionality.

[@RhettThompsonFilm]

Hmmm I mean there’s the 100-400 Leica, the 200 is still widely available, there are a few Olympus lenses that would still work fine and there’s a handful of nice zooms and primes for L mount too

[@JeffBourke]

The S bodies are feature rich and affordable. Lenses still expensive though. I’m going to S

[@RhettThompsonFilm]

Tough call but yea, the bodies are not bad and the lenses vary from medium to high cost but not much that’s actually cheap

[@mathish1477]

Does anyone know if that new 28-200 lens would work on the m43 system if converted

[@RhettThompsonFilm]

Not really possible