Do Not Buy an Island Packet - CHAINPLATES! - Episode 224 - Lady K Sailing

[@LadyKSailing]

Watching this and my recent episodes, I am SERIOUSLY wishing I had a teleprompter. If anyone wants to be super generous and help take Lady K Sailing to the next level, the cheapest option seems to be the D T2 Teleprompter for a little over $100 and it would be AMAZING!!! www.amazon.ca/hz/wishlist/ls/HGZDOPX6ZVUZ?ref_=wl_share

[@ionizer24]

Your videos are good without a teleprompter. Very happy you do not use a tremendous amount of those annoying mid-sentence jump cut edits!

[@CommentRedacted]

I agree with the above commenter, the way you structure your videos is great I find.

[@davidparadis490]

They have teleprompter programs that will run on your computer screen if thats an option for you

[@rickkwitkoski1976]

@@davidparadis490 Yes! The all purpose desktop computer is amazing!

[@andrewvisser5805]

@@ionizer24 yes

[@speakeasyusa]

Hope everyone watches the whole video for its great info! Any IP before the year 2000ish should get new chainplates AND new water and holding tanks. Many have already had these fixes/updates/upgrades done and the listing usually says so. We chose not to deal with that at all, because we could do so budget-wise. For a lower-budget option, and older IP is an awesome choice if you make sure the plates and tanks are done. ANY make/model with interior plates requires maintenance regularly (bedding). We absolutely LOVE our 2005 Island Packet 370 and are very often the only ones out on the water because she takes heavy wind like a boss, when that same wind keeps the Beneteaus at the dock. The IP is incredibly rock solid, which I'll take over winning races any day. We chartered a Beneteau in the Caribbean and were laughing at how early we had to reef when the wind speed was increasing. If you want a cheap boat that can't handle heavy wind and with interiors of particle board and veneer, buy a Beneteau. You can still have fun sailing it!

[@jimmystacy8952]

I purchased my 1990 Island Packet in 2018. Yes I knew the chainplates needed to be replaced with 316L and the factory had guys at the marina replacing the chainplates that week. No problem, and she is basically just like a brand new boat, other than all the upgraded electronics. There are few other brands I would consider.

[@gnsmk357]

Very Well Done. Not only is this good insight into buying smart, you could save a life with this information. Great Video.

[@thylacine1962]

As usual your research is impeccable. Very informative episode.

[@WillN2Go1]

Hi Tim (from the South China Sea! a day out of Subic Bay. Stick that pin in your fan map.) That $18,000 number is interesting. In many cases it might be a "Well it's time to sell the boat" number. Not so much, 'let's dump this on the next owner,' but just the last straw in a fading sailing career (age mostly, divorce, kids grown up...) as in, Sure $18k is doable.... but what'll the next $18k be? Factored in buying such a boat isn't being burned. If the potential owner is aware it's just a factor. (How many great boats were purchased as 'needs work,' or as salvage and the new owner(s) had the sweat equity to turn a problem into a boat they might not have been able to afford. I can immediately think of Expedition Evans, David Shih, Parlay Revival, Sailing Trieteia, there's a long list. Just these four KZbinrs wound up with amazing boats mostly for sweat equity. Two Lagoons! a Beneteau and a 'real' boat an Allberg, but now all solid.) I think the two factors are 1. What will have to be done? and what will it cost? but critically 2. Who's going to do the work? Is this something we can DIY or do we need professionals? And is there anyone in our area? And when can they do it?

[@captainrehab2047]

BTW 304L is made for improved weldability and has less Carbon. It is not stronger or more corrosion resitance. 316 adds Moly for corrosion resistance but still suffers from crevice corrosion ( just replaced all my shackles after 10 years due to corrosion of the pins). an Alpha phase Titanium would work but the old Naval bronze would too. Retired Mechanical Engineer and Materials Scientist

[@chaddeciantis]

You educate and entertain. Well done

[@mariossaraiva]

Best sailing channel so far! You sir do exactly what you claim to do , help more people feel confident about getting in the water. Learning so much from your channel

[@LadyKSailing]

Welcome aboard! Thanks for watching!

[@johnhairston1851]

Owned a 1986 IP 38 that we bought in 2009. Had a refit done in 2015 and made the decision at that point because of all the commotion to have the chainplates replaced. When they were removed, the old ones they looked as good as new with nary a sign of corrosion. What are you gonna do with that point though? I remember being somewhat perturbed at all the hysteria. But yes, the biggest problem is that they are glass them and you can’t inspect them. It was a fantastic boat otherwise and safely took us places. It was nowhere near as slow as the reputation, but maybe that was just our setup (asymmetrical on the top down, furler for light air.) And it’s true, we were out and comfortable when it was gnarly, and all the other production boats stuck in the harbor.

[@HikerBikerMoter]

360 or 316 steel?

[@travistucker7317]

​@@HikerBikerMoter86 Like above and all older are 304.

[@jeffp2142]

From Jerry Swartz at IPY: The question of how likely there is chainplate corrosion on the Island Packets is dependent on both the material used and the maintenance of the sealant under the chainplate covers. There is really no way to determine how well the sealant has been maintained over the years so the only clue available is the material. The material is not dependent on the model or model year but on the time when it was upgraded. Before early 1995, the chainplates were built using 304 stainless. From early 1995 to early 1999 they were built using 304L, which is a more corrosion resistant grade. From early 1999 to present they are built with 316L, the best of the three grades. Over the years, various improvements to the installation procedure, such as eliminating a fiberglass cover over the chainplates, so as to allow any water that gets in to drain, were implemented. At one point, IP started having the builder of the chainplates anneal the metal as part of the manufacturing process. The gray area in all this is that when the material changes were made, IP did not keep track of the hull numbers that got the improved material and there was no guarantee that parts on the shelf were rotated. Sometimes two or more models had the same design and some of the new parts could have been used up while some old parts were still on the shelf. Going from 316 to 316L was an improvement but not as dramatic as going from 304 to 316. Having said that, there is no way to check the integrity of the chainplates without removing them so if you do that you may as well replace them. Keep in mind that with poor chainplate cover maintenance, even 316L can corrode. It just takes more time.

[@johnmayer3433]

Yes, even 316L can corrode. To understand what can happen you need to understand crevice corrosion. This will occur as soon as you cover stainless steel in a way that air cannot flow across it anymore. A typical bad design was used by many yards, on deck the protruding part was made watertight by slipping a plate of stainless steel over it using sika around the chainplate to seal it. Now we have perfect conditions for crevice corrosion and the chainplate will fail sooner or later. It may take 20 years or more but fail it will.

[@jeffp2142]

I do think this video is a bit of alarmist. Yes, chain plates could fail (on all boats). Why are we seeing pre-2000 IPs for sale? Shouldn’t there chainplates have failed already? For some, maybe they are and others are just fine. Much like the keels falling off Beneateus, etc. Does it happen, yes. Is it common that one should avoid that brand? Take a walk in a marina and you’ll get your answer.

[@beorbeorian150]

Wow - watched so many videos on island packet and this issue has n it come up. Good information. Saving my pennies for a boat when I retire. Island packet is top on the list.

[@familyatsea3621]

A machine shop will do that for a fraction of the price. 316 will still get crevice corrosion, a lot of people are switching to titanium as it doesn't suffer from this.

[@danielx40]

I have a CNC machine shop. Let me know if anyone need to make anything.

[@paulreed7818]

Is there a huge price difference for titanium?

[@familyatsea3621]

@@paulreed7818 Not for the number of chainplates you'd need. The fabrication is easy too since it's typically a straight piece of metal with a few holes.

[@jamesweaver891]

My 1984 IP 31 has chainplates that are non magnetic. So its unlikely that they're the least expensive 304. When/if they need replacement , I'll switch to titanium external plates. The hardest plate of that project is removing the interior to access the existing chain plates. Although the easy solution would be to leave the old ones in place, i wouldnt want corroding metal inside the hull. Remember that adding external chainplates means adding a backing plate for each chain plate! I would heartily recommend comsulting a metallugical engineer for recommendations before starting the project so you get the best possible material for external corrosion resistance, the proper bolts and backing plates to avoid galvanic corrosion.

[@rosewood1]

Great video. I think the reality is that all stainless on any boat that lives in salt water becomes suspect after 15 years. The Island Packets are way stronger than most although perhaps not as strong as people might think if they use displacement as a guide because they use concrete not lead as ballast. Ie lead lower has greater righting moment than concrete. So you have use more weight to achieve same result. I have disassembled many stainless bolts especially and found deep black fissure electrolytic corrosion. And there may not be rust streaks. For me the answer is simple. My boat relies on being able to sail off a lee shore in bad conditions. Check the chainplates and renew anything that's critical.

[@nickpaglia543]

I'm thinking to buy a new IP439, and am told that the ballast is LEAD, not concrete. I like a Hallberg-Rassy 57 too, but not the bolt-on bulbed- fin keel, exposed rudders and propeller, and they won't build a full-keeled boat, not even for the money. Retired last year, got nothin' to do, and all day to do it, so just want to sail away with my Wife. Not looking for speed, any Hallberg-Rassy is faster than any Island Packet, in the same wind, side-by-side, but when we get caught in "the shit" I'd want the STIX over speed, and if a person is REALLY going to do a circumnavigation, that person is going to get caught in the shit, several times. I do, though, wish Island Packet offered something in the 50-60 foot range.

[@rosewood1]

@@nickpaglia543 Perhaps things have changed from the earlier models. cheers enjoy your sailing.

[@curtkuhns]

A scholarly presentation.

[@SaltyDougSailing]

I owned an early 90s Island Packet and kept it for… 18 years! Yep, it was the longest relationship of my life. :) As you mentioned, the safety and quality aspects were my primary purchase decision factors. When I sold her late last year, the chain plates were certainly a focus of the buyer. Unfortunately, there is no way to inspect the chain plates without opening up the boat. Proper maintenance of the bedding was essential. Keeping good records of all that maintenance is what helped alleviate the concern.

[@waltobringer2928]

Words of wisdom from this guy....last time, this time and every time. Cudos!

[@twanda1999]

Really exceptional episode! I like learning about good and bad of various boat brands. I see it as an opportunity to just know more and be a better educated buyer/viewer/dreamer.

[@MrZucchinis]

very informative video with so much to take in but maybe not quite as balanced. so to try to address this please see the The statement below which was written in 2022 Keep in mind, however, that the failure rate of even the oldest chainplates is still very low (less than 2%) so an immediate call for replacement may be unnecessary for well-maintained, lightly sailed vessels. But if you are headed off in an older model for blue water adventures, new chainplates are cheap insurance. Hope this helps! Bill Bolin, President Island Packet Ancestry, Inc.

[@sailingyoumeandjosapea6770]

I think it’s great you talked about something negative on a particular brand . It’s good to talk about which boats have certain issues and save a lot of heartache for some people. Well done another great episode well done 👏

[@dennism808]

A great deal of info. Keep up the good work

[@davidboily2424]

Good vid. We were in the market for a iP31, event putting an offer on one. However our offer included the cost of redoing the chainplates. Unfortunately the sellers are in denial about the problem. In the end we bought a Caliber. Sooo happy we did.

[@michaelmarcinek1256]

Excellent and thoughtful video! We previously owned a 1994 IP35, Colin and his crew at Mack Yacht Services replaced our chainplates and did a fantastic job. The new 316L chainplates they are putting in are more robust than the old plates that came out, so those new plates are likely good for another 20-25 years. The new glassing technique is also more secure and doesn't completely encapsulate the plates in fiberglass, so it addresses the issues that came up from the plates being "oxygen starved" as well as trapping salt water if the sealant had failed. Personally, I think the latter point was the bigger cause for premature failure than the oxidation issues, and the later designs of IP's allowed for water to flush, so my guess is IP would agree. I think the only criticism(probably the wrong word) I would have for this video is, unless you are talking bronze or titanium, no chainplate is a "forever" chainplate. If you are looking at a boat from the 80's or 90 and even the early 2000's you should 100% be interested in what the condition of the chainplates as they are past their serviceable life unless they have been replaced. The late great Brian Toss recommended replacing chainplates, if stainless steel, every 8-10 years when you replace the rest of the rig, and if I had a boat with bolted on plates, I would head that caution. He also recommends pulling and inspected the plates annually... So there is that to consider. If someone is interested in buying an IP, they should seriously consider your recommendation to negotiate the cost of replacement into the purchase price. If the seller doesn't want to talk, and unless the boat is severely under market, they should walk away! There are plenty of IP's on the market and the price of these boats used should fully consider the difficulty of maintaining their rig. Love your videos, keep em coming!

[@kevinlytle6215]

Very solid advice. The external comment is what I was waiting for. Get better access for inspection, safety on the side decks for crew and possibly better geometry.

[@donmcneal233]

Hey. This helped a lot. Looked @ a '87(?) IP Catamaran 35' a couple week back. Now to go back & scrutinize those chain-plates & other concerns brought to m'attention. Thanks & fair winds...

[@CommentRedacted]

Love these video's Tim. As a new sailor myself this type of information is beyond priceless. Your delivery is always spot on. Keep up the great work! I'm really looking forward to getting my Hunter 23 in the water for a full season this year; I only bought it last year and only got a couple weeks sailing in.

[@BlackheartCharlie]

Thanks for a well balanced presentation of the issue. I own a 1988 IP38 and have sailed her many thousands of miles. I'm going to switch to external chainplates - the condition of the original internal chainplates is unknowable. I don't have the comfort level that I used to in 40+ kt winds that the boat is not going to have a problem.

[@mmullaley]

You are correct about the chain plates. We had a guy come into our yacht club with broken chain plates...broke at deck level from " out of sight" The boat was "play to live sanblas". Talk to the owner....we put chain plates on outer hull. We did them all. He still sails it. Also told him to put companionway doors in as well when at sea. He later got in a storm...boat did well and I got an email. A green one rolled into the cockpit and he had his doors in...no issue, it drained... The new chain plates never failed. Those were my idea.

[@mmullaley]

We did that in a couple of days...when I was a kid I worked in a boat manufacturing business. .years later, myself a another couple of guys were able to help paul out. Total repair, with machine shop 1/4 chain plates...about 1500 bucks, done at the dock.

[@mmullaley]

We added more glass to the inner side of that hull as well.

[@captainrehab2047]

The Beneteau you featured was my friend’s Martin’s boat in Grenada. 👍

[@kurtsteiner8384]

Having served i n the Royal Navy inthe uk. I know about stainles steel and other material at sea.. it sets up electro acid action corrosion. Therw are ways to offset this, one by fitting sacrificial diodes to the offended area you just replace the diodes not the unit. Another is to put an electric low level charge through tge hull, eithe the whole hull or offending areas, this is expensive. This occurs when alloyslike stainless steel and aluminium come i contact with ferrus metal like mild steel and bave contact with sea water. Hope it helps

[@corvavw6447]

Elke boot of schip heeft plus en minpunten,het gaat om onderhoud en kennis om veilig te varen. Ben altijd dankbaar voor goede raad ❤. Good luck sailor 🎉

[@LadyKSailing]

Thanks for watching!

[@timdunn2257]

Stainless steel has to be in contact with air, because that gives it an oxide coating that protects it. Cracks too small to let air in when they are wet, propagate because there is no oxide layer, and it just keeps rusting until it breaks.

[@toddwever4916]

I have a good friend that just did his chain plates. He's spent about 3k for all the materials. After getting done he said it's worth the 15k to have someone else do it. Alot of work and labor.

[@LadyKSailing]

Holy crap!

[@billfromgermany]

Replace chainplates with NiAl Bronze. Even 316L is susceptible to corrosion where the chainplate passes through the deck. Wet with salt water and oxygen poor. Removing the cabinetry is not that difficult, removing GRP encapsulation even easier. The GRP should NOT be replaced, and the cabinetry reinstalled with screws so that the chainplate can be inspected. The bronze will NEVER corrode, but you do want to check for water ingress every season. Water ingress is more or less guaranteed. Since the chainplate passes through the deck, and the deck is probably cored, this presents a potentially much more serious problem, wet core. When this has been fixed (it can be fixed) the core around the chainplate should be replaced with thickened epoxy.

[@Morrisfactor]

Excluding the chainplate problem (move them outboard) - the thing I prefer about the IPs for extended cruising is their full keels - sooner or later most cruisers hit something - and the grids of the Beneteau/Jeanneau type of boats prove VERY vulnerable in this regard. Also, the weight of the IPs may make them slower and less nimble than the Beneteau's, however, the IP's comfort motion at sea is far better and so is its Capsize Rating - it is just a safer boat if things get nasty in the Indian Ocean. The real problem is COST, though one may retrieve some of that big difference when selling the boat at some point in the future.

[@manmadegods021]

Seems like a lot of Boat Brokers I've come across have limited experience and yet want to advise on offshore sailing. Maybe they spent a couple years cruising in the Caribbean but never crossed an ocean or have any boat building experience. Buying a boat can be a minefield for the ill-advised

[@Morrisfactor]

Our "well respected" marine surveyor totally let us down when we bought our boat. He was always bragging about all the boats he'd surveyed but seemed to sleepwalk through our purchasing survey and passed over dozens of problems. He was so bad that I've often wondered if he was getting a kickback from the broker. Never use a surveyor that the broker recommends!

[@mikenash5702]

I looked at Island Packets and love them and I tried to buy one with for sure chain plate corrosion, the owners poo pooed the chain plate issue and held firm on their price. I was going to go with the outer hull plates as it seems to make less of a mess and (my thought) you are drilling through that extra thick fiberglass covering the original chain plates giving you a great base to bolt to. IMHO.

[@LadyKSailing]

YES exactly!!! people do that a lot

[@MR-yp7mu]

Once I replaced glassed in chainplates on Passport 40. They were all cracked which was not visible from outside. It required demo and rebuilding part of interior. A few weeks of work for what would take a day if the boat would have had external chainplates.

[@charles.neuman18]

Replacing encapsulated chainplates sounds pretty complex. I'm curious how they do it. And I assume you don't end up with new but encapsulated chainplates. But then the question is how it's different than the original (where they are placed, what it looks like from the interior, whether it interrupts any of the existing interior woodwork, etc). New external chainplates make sense. Sounds like it would involve less tearing apart of the boat.

[@montanadan2524]

Charles, to replace the plates, all of the built-in cabinetry and furniture must be uninstalled from the midship area of the saloon. It's a bit of an effort but it can be done and also reassembled to as good of condition. Once the cabinetry is out of the way, the plates are ground out of the inside of the hull. The new plates are installed using long fiberglass strands that spread the load over a large area. In my opinion, refitting external plates is not advisable due to hull modifications required. The chainplates on our boat were replaced prior to our purchase. Only one of the eight side and rear plates was compromised however all were replaced. Maintaining the sealent under the inspection plate is an activity that should take place frequently to avoid this issue and a rig that cannot hold a tunning should be suspect.

[@angeloquintero6252]

Hi Tim. Just wanted to say thanks for all the great content you guys put up. It’s very helpful. I’ll be requesting a consultation soon to buy my next cruiser. Probably about 30 days. I’ll also be dropping something in your Patreon to support all the great videos you guys put up. Thanks again.

[@SuperDirk1965]

My 1973 Dufour has 316 chainplates, 304 would be udeless as it is not salt water resistant, a 304 chainplate would leave streaks of rust on the hull.

[@russellneville7145]

Awesome to see the little boat again. As much as I the free range living, I also really miss the free range sailing. I actually don't know how this one slipped past me. I really thought I'd seen them all. I think I need to put some time aside & check to see if there's any other that I may have missed 👍. SV Kiwi Lady Opua Bay of islands New Zealand 👍

[@jesuschrist-alphaomega]

I still love the IP. Still on my to buy list

[@jimanonymous113]

Thanks for revealing this issue.

[@roadboat9216]

Good to know. Thanks. BTW, the biggest reason for moving chainplates inboard is, as boats got beamier, moving them inboard narrowed the sheeting angle. Also creating outboard chainplates for the IP is a fairly DIY job for a hands on cruiser that does most of their own maintenance. And for much less than 13-18 thousand!

[@LadyKSailing]

Or run a 105-110 and run them in board ;)

[@chuckaddison5134]

I read an article, a couple of years ago about replacing chainplates with Titanium. Although sea conditions seem to require a specific alloy.

[@SuperSventizeMe]

IP's through 1998 have a known chain plate issue. At that time it was addressed. If you are considering buying a 25 year old boat, it is one of the many, many things you will need to get checked out in a survey. As with any other 25 year old boat.

[@CaptainRon1913]

No owner is going to allow a surveyor to disassemble the interior of the boat to check. Actually, no surveyor would do that anyway. If you're buying a 25+ yr old boat, budget for it, or don't buy it. Plain and simple

[@SmartLearningAI]

I had an IP35 from 1989. The previous owner replaced the chaingplates with through-bolted external chainplates that was so strong that they saved the mast even in Cat5 hurricane Ian. We lost the boat and it partially sunk, but the mast stayed up. The other issues are the tanks that often corrode through and the old gearboxes. Great boats overall.

[@SmartLearningAI]

So, could you review the best model Catalina 30 to 34 with the least issues, and best performance in the under $50k price range please. I want to know about its weaknesses and strenghts and which particular one to get Mkii or iii etc. Bahamas cruising for two.

[@carlthor91]

The Cruisernet crowd went over this a few years back. Replace the chainplates with Titanium ones, expensive yes, ~$10Kfor a small one, but NO corrosion. Then you can give the damned boat to the grandchildren.

[@SvMobyduck]

I'm a fan of external chainplates on heavy cruising boats. Island packet is a solid boat, but why they hold their value so well when they still have their own individual issues is a mystery to me. Island packet owners are all kinda different. Like when you go to redo the running rigging all lines must be original colors, it pains them to upgrade to better blocks or clutches. Not financially mind you, then it wont be in original condition...... WT...... To this day ive met one IP owner that I saw eye to eye with of course he lost that boat during ian and bought a Hinterholler. Cool old man he's 82 and about to refit his lost count of them sailboat and still can. Cheers for the insight Guy

[@craigmooney2630]

Sailing project Atticus changed all theirs , good info for potential purchasers, Jordan is pretty handy though

[@JohnSmith-sk1mn]

A very fair assessment 👍

[@simplecountrydrummer]

I am looking at a 1985 Island Packet 27. I like the boat and this is coming from a guy that built Chris Crafts and a certified Mercury Mercruiser tech. First inspection of it has a few deck leaks but form the water line up is in good shape for age. Do not yet know if it runs or runs well but honestly at the accepted offer I gave don't care if it needs a engine. I found NOTHING to deter me from going forward. I know that the bottom was just done so another plus. My problem with it is the price. At my offer it is about $10,000 less than others I see. I know that a bad engine is $10,000 problem for most but not so much for me. This video scares me because you are right. I can not see the chain plates to inspect them.

[@MichaelDeNicola-uz5cy]

Great Video. the IP's are amazing boats I have a friend that has one and owned it for many years. He races with me on my C&C 99. twice a week. I am not much of a cruiser at the moment. We may do some sailing in the Bahamas and BVI in a year or two. as we get ready to retire. Then I would consider either a Catalina 320, 380 or a 42 or a Beneteau 361, 381 or 411. Budget will dictate what I purchase. I have no plan on living on the boat 100%. doing a trip for a month or two twice a year would be great. Thanks for sharing I have been following you for many years on and off. Work and responsibilities of life sometimes get in the way. Safe Sailing.

[@peterhomann2140]

I am watching your videos ust frequently and found that I learn something new and / or hear something that challenges my previous opinions. Truth be told: Many times I disagree with at least some of your points and you will have a particularly hard time to convince me that Hunters are good boats but having said this: I very much appreciate your format, it forces me to (really) listen and reflect on the subject at hand. For that you deserve kudos. Regarding the intro to this Island Packet reel: Shannon "never changed the recipe" either as far as I can tell. My boat neighbor owns an older IP 34, probably from the 90ies and she sure holds up extremely well cosmetically but he also had all kind of problems with the electric systems and even a rudder issue that put a stop to a planned voyage from Rock Hall, MD to Florida at Norfolk, VA... I am not certain if he ever checked on the chainplates but after your explanation I will talk about it with him. Bottom line: Continue doing what you do, it makes one think.

[@Tenright77]

Used Aircraft Sales are no different. As technology changed and things aged "We" learned to be smarter about important aspects. Thx LK

[@1badsteed]

This is a great video and I for one appreciate your research on Island Packets. It would be nice to see what years you mean in your title, but that's a small quibble. I notice there are a bunch of very rude people commenting. Maybe they just aren't used to being around people anymore.

[@Hotzenplotz1]

Discussing Stainless Steel there's NO sort being long term suitable to the marine environment, not a single one. There are reasons why insurances require stainless fittings on the rigg to be exchanged after 20 years, no matter what type of Stainless was used. Hot dip galvanized mild steel is probably more suitable than any type of Stainless as galvanized steel shows corrosion directly and stainless can have many types of corrosion some of them not even visible until the part breaks. And these specific types of corrosion are often to be found on parts above the waterline with some hidden surfaces like press fittings on turnbuckles or chainplates with screw holes and a back side to the hull. As soon as corrosion is visible outside on stainless it's time to change. If I think about how many rusty shrouds are out there...

[@eriksvsirocco]

316 is the best

[@travistucker7317]

​@eriksvsirocco how about titanium

[@Hotzenplotz1]

@@travistucker7317 titanium is electrically isolating. We often use titanium or titanium coated bolts for mounting alloy tracks on steel structure. But it still has an potential voltage of -0.86 Volts according to Wikipedia. In order not to get an electrical current the materials used should be as close together in the electric chemical current table as possible. There positive and negative voltages possible. So if both are negative there are better suited to be combined as if they where on the opposite ends of the scale.

[@Hotzenplotz1]

@@travistucker7317 If used as rigg fittings the issue is less the galvanic corrosion but most likely the strength and other types of corrosion. I'm not firm in types of corrosion on titanium. Galvanic corrosion will occur if the material is more or less constantly under salt water or if the hull is metal itself. In this case all fittings should be isolated from the hull if possible. Of course Stainless Steel fittings are used widely as standard and will not be isolated at all. On aluminum boats galvanic isolation is a must for any metal fitting and electric component.

[@tomfuhs6801]

You can’t, or at least shouldn’t, use external chain plates on an IP. The hull layup in that area is not designed for those point loads. The glassed in unit chain plated are glassed in with long unidirectional glass strands / fibers that distribute the loads over a very large area. This from the engineers at IP and verified by a very knowledgeable and experienced fiberglass tradesman who has done the job. It’s a big job and worth the cost given the problem.

[@LadyKSailing]

Weird cause the more I read people talking about that being exactly where the load was from the orig chain plates, the more it made sense. Difference of a lot of opinions I suppose

[@bawrytr]

Man, I replaced the outboard chainplates on my Liberty Cutter 28 for less than $500. They were already outboard, but how can it cost $13,000 to patch some holes in the deck and install the chainplates?

[@thomasetchberger8678]

Wish you good luck on your refit and your many voyages.

[@xs6717]

That was awesome information. Thank you.

[@kennethmorris1571]

Excellent video! I really appreciate the advice.

[@LadyKSailing]

Glad it was helpful!

[@rileysgarden8153]

Great info Tim.

[@elainem4025]

We bought an IP40 '94 in 2020. Closely considered the issue of the chainplates, but after much investigation of this issue, it seems to apply mostly to those who are sailed mostly in salt water. Ours had only been freshwater sailed so concern around the chainplates is a non-issue. Check where the boat has been sailed and how it has been maintained, before freaking out about this issue

[@CaptainRon1913]

Stop saying "issue" when you mean problem. Issues are magazines and newspapers. 98% of IP's are in salt water

[@CheekyMonkey1776]

Very informative. Thanks!

[@egis7908]

Really good advice. Thanks

[@oceanscaper]

Excellent report.

[@anthonymiller8989]

Tony & Susan here, Great info

[@dutchflats]

Buyer beware, you've got to do your due diligence when buying any make of boat.

[@billyoung-jn1ow]

He who does the most homework wins

[@svStargate]

Yeah, Mack has right now a six month waiting list for chainplate replacement on IP.. BTW, 316L is not Stronger than 304. Totally the opposite.. less carbon content on 316L means less corrosion but come with a price of a less stronger steel..

[@LadyKSailing]

True - 316 is not as strong but stronger in resistance

[@stevethurlow9059]

On any cape dory, you can lift the boat off the ground with only using the bow and aft chainplates

[@SalingSamantas]

My understanding is grade 5 titanium is the best material for chainplates. But most riggers say 316 is acceptable as long as it can dry out if its below the waterline or encapsulated in the deck moisture can get trapped there a better stainless for that application that begins with the letter M but I can't remember the word.

[@edwardhart8449]

The word is monell .

[@SalingSamantas]

@@edwardhart8449 yup that's the one! Thanks, little brain fart there.

[@bobcornwell403]

Inboard chain plates are for racers. And something as vital as chain plates should never be hidden. This is an example of what I call "yacht mentality". To me a yacht is not merely a pleasure boat (as all cruising boats are), but a boat built more to impress others.

[@willthesinger1]

Ok, so I met the current owner of IP at this years St. Petersburg boat show. I told him I was interested in an IP 27. He told me to replace the chain plates will be a little north of $15000. Even for a 30 year old 27.

[@smallsailboatbigwater3959]

I'll never forget passing an Island Packet during the Harvest Moon Regatta in the Gulf of Mexico. It was a terrible windy night and the Packet was on her ear, showing us her keel. Love your vids. Going to over to checkout and sub your new channel. 👍🏼#231.

[@LadyKSailing]

Thank you!

[@umnojon]

pre 1996 used 304 alloy, even so, only

[@Priidik1524]

I think comfort 30 is just fine for everything, and if you want a sporty boat for a daytime competition i recomend Fareast 28er

[@chefandy72]

Would I be resoundly outcast for using terms like "brick shithouse" in the sailing community. I kinda wonder about the sailing community sometimes, younger and older. I could see myself in a vegabin the Caribbean or a Pearson (the encapsulated keel video was fascinating and noteworthy) or a Hughes maybe an a alhoha or a bayfield. I hope to get there someday, things might be lining up. I'm a chef by trade, and I'm as salty as they come. The nunavute job might get me south every other month at least if I get things right. Biggest question past how much financial pain am I willing to endure will be does it fit and do I belong. You're amazing for knowledge. I might be on my bike riding to southern Ontario soon being newly intentionally homeless. I might say hey here, I might need some experience doing some horrible job on a boat refitting if such thing is available. Once you've done the work life is easy breezy and time to set sails for the next coconut infested beach. Love your stuff here.

[@teddybearisms2505]

The Island Packet SP Cruiser is my fav.

[@jwwebnaut7045]

Chainplates on the outside *press into* the hull, in the inside they are *pulled out* of it.

[@Bay0Wulf]

Having dealt with several boats over the years (NE USA) and the Caribbean, I had noticed what seemed to be a lot of problems associated with stainless steel in many applications. I didn’t know why and thought maybe it had been treated “wrong” … overstressed or somehow abused … or faulty manufacturing … it never occurred to me to consider that it might be the material itself failing.

[@markjennings2315]

Why not install external chain plates and just re-rig to those.

[@hurdurdur7rl696]

I would go with external chainplates. Any time.

[@ChrisDavis333]

There’s a 1988 IP 31 for sale at my local marina for 32k. It looks really nice, it has wooden rub rails/cap rails/toe rails, that have seen their better days in a couple small areas but generally speaking it looks to be in very good condition. The sails are newish, and the controls look good. The interior is dated, particularly the appliances, but the general build of the interior looks nice, the bones look clean and solid, it seems like a great boat. Should I hire someone to look it over? That’s a boat I could buy right now and keep my house, also something tells me I could get it for less than what he’s asking, albeit probably just by a few grand. I’ve been looking at sailboats for quite some time, for the most part it was a distant goal of mine, that I’m working towards, maybe sell my home and live full time on a 45 foot cat. The boats I have primarily been looking at are brand new(0-3 years old) production cruisers, cats and mono’s. My budget for this “dream boat” if you will was in the $300-500k range, I don’t need anyone’s judgement on that aspect, financing it won’t be a problem, once the purchase is made, it is made and that’s now my new home for the foreseeable future. But then this cheap IP crossed my nose one day and I started thinking why not go this route, keep my house, become a sailor, refine my skills over these next couple years, make sure it’s a lifestyle I’m ready for before complete irreversible life decisions are made. If the boat checks out, do I buy it? What in particular should I be looking for? And do I hire someone on such a cheap boat(I’m assuming yes)?

[@robertmiller6612]

Good episode. If anyone wants to see what's it's like to remove and replace embedded chainplate let me know. Haha. It's a job!! Slocum43, Passport42, Tayana42. If you are looking at a boat with embedded chainplates replace them....period.

[@aorakiboydog]

External chain plates are definitely the way to go no more leaking,encapsulated keel bolts or chain plates are stupid as crevice corrosion is really a huge problem, out of sight out of mind. Keel bolts are a great topic …what to use ?

[@gunho]

Silicone Bronze

[@edwardhart8449]

You did not mention the tanks, water, fuel and holding. They also will fail on older boats. They will have to be ripped out and replaced with new ones. That means the cabin soul will have to be replaced. Very expensive. .

[@rickkwitkoski1976]

*sole...

[@HikerBikerMoter]

2.5 decades for a mechanical device (306) is excellent. The difficulty is they buried it deep for easy replacement.

[@kenm6231]

Thanks for this. I always wondered if you could move the chainplates outboard with out hurting anything.

[@spharion7988]

Excellent...bravo, bello!

[@jerryruest]

very good to know !!!!!

[@bertram46]

Excellent video. I have been watching you since you started out with your girlfriend. LOL I know that feeling I started out sailing with my girlfriend 20 years my junior now she's married with the baby LOL I have always been a fan of Island packets, tartans and swans. That's probably all I would consider. I have never owned a sailboat I have always been a power boater however I've always gone for quality Bertram Tiara Viking. When you take the chief route you end up paying in more ways than one. Again love your videos keep it going! Steve Naples Florida

[@mikeg7924]

Have you done previously, or have you considered doing an episode about the Seaward brand? IPY currently has the molds for the 26 and 32 RK but won't build them. It's an interesting story.

[@davewarren5263]

Love the new channel..

[@curtisn6980]

1986 bayfield 36 owner here. But we looked at the island packets too. Chain plates aren't terribly expensive, we changed all of ours just last year. I wouldn't hesitate for a minute to buy an IP but you have to price in this known issue. Love the channels. If I can ever bring myself to part with my B36 I'll hire you for a consult. 😉

[@DonaldHammond-w8d]

good info

[@usefulcommunication4516]

A little unfair picking that particular 440 for a price comparison. That thing's been on Yachtworld for at least 2 years, probably much longer, because it's way over-priced.

[@EJL2004]

Have you ever seen a Mark Ellis designed Bruckmann 50 (mk2) ? Canadian made. I grew up sailing a Niagara 35 and it was fantastic. Wife and I are looking at a blue water boat to retire on in 18 years from now (I'm sure everything will be much much different by then!) and I'm feeling like a pilothouse would be ideal for what we'll be wanting especially for Winter sailing. Very curious to hear more about the Bruckmann 50 mk2 as I've never seen one here in British Columbia. Love your channel, keep it up!