Landis Surface Grinder Gear Box Repair: Cylindrical Grinding on the Horizontal Mill

[@kensherwin4544]

I just have to say this.....Keith, YOU WERE WRONG !! You said 10 people would tell you 10 different ways to do this fix but they didn't. We're all standing here in admiration for getting your task accomplished. Very well done and that you for sharing.As for the rethinking needed to address the taper, you didn't make a mistake. You just weren't done yet.

[@jamesdavis8021]

Great job,Keith. The ability to do accurate work on a worn machine,separates the men from the boys.😎

[@ROBRENZ]

Nice work Keith! That grinding grit gets everywhere. Draping old towels or sheets misted with WD40 works well at keeping the grit off the machine. ATB, Robin

[@artt3165]

Kieth, Nice Job!!! There will aways be people who think they can do it better, faster, more accurately or by some "better" methods. Problem is most of them have *never* worked in a shop or had to actually repair something with available tooling. It's always easy to do a job in someone else's shop using *their* checkbook. With what you had available you got it done and it didn't cost you a ton of money. And, *that* is the lesson here.

[@jamesciampi6392]

Keith, Don't be concerned with the naysayers just do it your way.Those people just criticize those who can,because they can't do it themselves Thank you for taking your valuable time to video your expert way of doing it. Many of us don't have all the proper equipment,but we get the job done.Thank you, Thank you.

[@robertbamford8266]

Rummaging around in history for videos I missed. I was impressed with the weight the table could handle - wear slop or not. Thanks for the video.

[@Kenjiro5775]

"Use what you got." No better motto has been coined than that! Awesome application of the phrase and a great example of clearing obstacles.

[@fredbloggs4829]

Here is my 2 cents worth. That was a super interesting approach to solving the problem at hand. And let's be honest, that was a really cool way to solve the problem. The boring approach (maybe simpler) would have been to leave the taper in the shaft and make a bushing for the pulley with the same taper. In any case, another great video, Keith.

[@laurenceporter9354]

... shows that creativity is not the exclusive property of the artist ... nice one Keith!

[@hemipatton7799]

Keith my friend, you did an amazing job figuring out this one! Those naysayers, are those that have PERFECT tools, PERFECT EVERYTHING hat would just "program" the dang machine and let a computer do it! YOU however is anything but a "programmer" your the REAL in-field, hands ON machinist... far from a program machine operator (NOT a "TRUE" Machinist by any stretch of imagination! LIE all true machinist, you use what you got at hand to get the job done! THAT Sir, is a job WELL DONE, and WELL thought through!

[@farmalltomf]

Keith, well done. As far as calculating your movements ahead of time, you essentially "sneaked up on it", which in cases of older machines is exactly what it takes. I do a lot of work on old hit n miss engines, repairing and making parts. 90% of what I do is to "sneak up" on a target measurement. From my perspective, absolutely no shame in doing that. Again, well done.

[@ron827]

Ingenious and as we all know, creating the setup can take much longer than doing the actual job. Because Keith is an exceptional machinist, he was not satisfied until he solved the mystery pertaining to the shaft taper. GREAT work as usual.

[@84953]

I suspect that he knew it was not quite right the way he was doing it, but didn't realize just how much he was going to be off. LOL Great job Keith! For those interested in getting into this stuff, this is why you need to know geometry. LOL

[@PeterWMeek]

Great solution to fixing the munged shaft without needing to completely disassemble the gearbox. I was happy to see you explain the effect of the long pivot length on the change of angle. (I was expecting something like 1/30 of the desired change from the initial 0.0015" adjustment.)

[@JesusvonNazaret]

This shows again, how important it is to know how to measure and fix errors as you go along

[@BobPegram]

This video was better than most, partly because you were enjoying the challenge and that was infectious. If you ever make a list or a composite video of your best videos, this should be on it.

[@ThunderDog]

Keith, you had me glued to the screen for this whole repair. Well done. And the fact you shared the hiccup on the pivot point adds authenticity to your content. Thanks for sharing.

[@warrenjones744]

Keith, this is the kind of stuff that I like to see, cleaver use of what you have in the shop to get the job done. I like repair work.

[@Gary.7920]

Nice Job Keith. I love the "Thinking outside the box comment". Keep up the good work and training those of us with less experience. Gary, 75 year-old Home-Shop-Machinist in North West Arknasas

[@ablelock]

Another amazing job done KEYS keep up the good work don’t let anybody tell you that you can’t figure out how to use what you have to get the job done because they are in the wrong. Besides you are the person doing it so you make the best choices. And if they were doing it they could make the best choices.

[@Dan.Whiteford]

I think that what you have shown is one of the best problem solving solutions working with what you have I've ever seen. Congratulations on a great result.

[@lavejim11]

After many years in maintenance and repair, you are correct..."You work with what ya got". Nice setup and good repair

[@cjdixon7132]

A nice example of good planning equals good results. Nice video

[@ebrewste]

Good on you for not cutting out the mistake and explaining what you did wrong and how you fixed it. Makes for a good video.

[@dougguynn2622]

loved it,thumbs UP

[@terrycannon570]

I love the creativity. My old boss used to tell me anybody can do it the easy way. I pay you to get it done with what you have. Excellent thinking Keith. Thanks for sharing with us.

[@ellieprice3396]

Yes, impressive indeed. Had me scratching my head wondering, "how's old Keith gonna do that?" but he did it very well by thinking out of the box. Thumbs up on a really odd and difficult job well done.

[@dennisleadbetter7721]

Hi Keith; You could check the table with a precision level in the position where you trammed the vertical face (which was a bit lumpy anyway) and where it may have deflected with the weight when in a cantilever situation, that would also indicate the sort of wear you may have in the ways, and again that would be a combination of X axis wear, Z axis wear and possibly Y axis as well. As you said there may have been other ways to do it, clearly you could have dismantled it, and a bigger machine, but in the absence of other machines and no need or desire to dismantle it, your solution produced the desired result. Well done. Dennis

[@ksingleton101]

I accomplished what I needed today, that was to learn something new! Thank You Keith! At 59 I'm not to old to learn something new!

[@izzynutz2000]

Absolutely.. improvising is part of the process.... Excellent video

[@petergregory5286]

Heavy maintenance is where I come in and what you had to do was in my mind, kosher. When you talked about the play in your milling machine table you have to add to that a certain amount of slop within your gearbox. Not much but it could have been significant. Anyway, you have the result you needed and that’s the most important outcome in spite of any naysayers with 20-20 vision. Regards.

Necessity is the mother of invention. You cannot use what you have not got. Good video explaining how you got round a problem.

[@oldpup2182]

I used to have to figure out jigs and fixtures for some of the jobs I had and that was fun for me as well. Thanks for the video.

[@jameskerns717]

No one got hurt, nothing got broken, job got done. Can't do better than that.

[@glennmoreland6457]

Hi greetings from England Happen a lot of folk would've stripped down that gearbox and done that grinding on the lathe... What you did here required more thought...and made for a better video...

[@Tafs315]

I think you did a great job as you done it. Remeber this whole system has a multitude of differences in bearings and shims. and some of these have weights of the shafts and torque settings with all that you found the unknown numbers by your knowledge. The only other way was to break in all down to get the shaft by itself and then turn it on a lathe. great job!!

[@ExtantFrodo2]

You could attach a laser pointer to the gear box pointing along the direction of travel of your bed to see how much actual difference there is from the flexing of the bed. Say your pointer puts a spot on a wall 10 feet away. If there was no flexing of the ways, then the spot would not raise up when you crank the bed out to the end. You could probably determine exactly how much to compensate in you adjustments as easily as lowering the gear box front end until the spot is in the original location. Does that sound reasonable?

[@timdouglass9831]

Neat piece of work, Keith! I love these videos where you figure out a way to get it done with what you have. Back many years ago when I was a computer programmer/software engineer part of what I did was brainstorm solutions to problems. I'd just sit there and throw out a dozen or so ways to try to solve the problem and the other programmers would go off and try them. If nothing worked they'd come back and I'd throw another dozen at them. There are always a bunch of different ways to solve any problem. in my opinion whichever one first gets it solved is the best way to do it. (although I have to admit to more than one dope-slap moment when I looked back and a painfully simple solution was right there and I missed it!)

[@brucekoehler276]

Thanks for pointing out the pivot implications, good lesson.

[@johnleake708]

Thanks for showing us your approach to fixing the shaft on your cylindrical grinder

[@michaelhansen1675]

Now this is the real world repair , love the thought process as you worked through it .

[@ShadonHKW]

Nicely thought out, nicely set up and nicely executed.

[@mk2cnc98]

A perfect example of using what you have, well done.

[@jefferdman5921]

Great job! It was fun watching you set up the milling machine with a post grinder, and then cleaning up a shaft that otherwise would have had to be removed from it's case.

[@britishreaction54]

Very interesting to watch. Patience, care and ingenuity in abundance.

[@tinkermouse-scottrussell3738]

Elliot Lake Ontario Canada. Adapt and succeed well done Keith.

[@johnmcdonnell6109]

Great job! I really like the explanation of what was going wrong.

[@Lakesidearmorer]

Keith, Well done! This is the kind of informative video that we are look for. Glade you didn't by-pass your errors, but helped us by showing how to figure them out and make corrections.

[@mikenixon9164]

Keith one of your best videos I think.

[@holyblood1]

In the end the important thing is that the goal is achieved, and I think it was a very inspired work full of decisive spirit, excellent work.

[@TomTalley]

Very interesting. Dealing with the problems as they come in this case probably was far better than trying to imagine all the problems and trying to fix them beforehand...much more efficient...nicely done.

[@patricksullivan9951]

Hi Keith, yep that was outside the box, but it worked! Nice Job! You are so right, you have to work with what you have. Smart!!

[@tomscorner3838]

I'm impressed. I would have taken the shaft out of the gear box and turned it on the lathe. But how you did it was out standing.

[@WilliamTMusil]

Wow! Worth the wait. Very cool. Way to get the job done.

[@zzzzzzzzzz3799]

Awesome job keith! I like your mentality of admitting when your wrong etc. Its a huge part of ‘job’ shop type work. There are no books for it usually and you have to adapt to what you see during cuts etc... its a fool that just carries on through and ends up with scrap! Nice job 👍

[@SamS-ni9kb]

Excellent video. It took some great problem solving to adapt the milling machine to make this repair. It looked like you had lot of fun working through this puzzle too. Thanks for sharing!

[@glenncpw]

Well Done. I have always made do with what is around the place - a lot of mystery metal in my repairs. As you said it is achieving the end result which really counts.

[@fiorevitola880]

Good innovation on the mill and grinder combination.

[@georgebliss964]

You would make a great trainer. You certainly know your stuff.

[@PhilGoldblum]

Creative Setup Keith. Well Done Sir.

[@johnjohn-ed9qt]

Very nice job. Good setup and excellent explanation of how you lined up and fixtured. I will note that I would be careful slinging like you did to place the part. Even if it is balance, if the sling slips a little and one end drop a fraction of an inch, it will keep going until it hangs vertical or drops the loop at the high end. When we sling that way, we use separate slings on each end to prevent slip when we can, or, if we can't and need to do it as you did, mouse up where the sling goes through the shackle to prevent it from slipping. Friction is sufficient most of the time, but you only need a heavy part to slip once.

[@flatheadronsgarage7345]

Way to use your tools...👍👍👍 this is something I’ll have to watch a few times, repeat, repeat....... thanks for the info

[@1995jug]

I like it Keith, use what you got seems like that what I've had to do all my life.

[@AD4MRick]

Great job Keith. It doesn't matter if you would have used two turnips and a hotdog. You got it right and that is all that matters. Congratulations on some good ole fashioned Southern logic. R

[@Proverbhouse]

I am setting up a Burke # 4 horizontal mill as a small surface / tool grinder. I have a Rockwell univise to hold the tools. In place of a separate grinder like you have I will be mounting my cutting wheel in the arbor. I can get just over 1,000 RPM from the arbor. Great minds think alike ( well if my plans works) lol

[@larrysmall3521]

Glad to see it worked out in the end. A couple of thoughts about the taper in the beginning. 1. Even though the vertical surface was true at the pivot point you still have the multiplier of the length. 2. Could you have used the base of the key to check for level before you started grinding since it should have not been worn?

[@terrylarotonda784]

Keith, this is one of your best videos yet. Lots of information on setup. Good job, thanks.

[@altonwhipkey2411]

Wow you are really a machinist Keith

[@swarfrat311]

Way to go, Keith! You were really thinking outside the "gearbox" on this one! Thanks for the video. It was very interesting! Have a good one! Dave

[@bcbloc02]

I love the setup! That is getting it done! :-)

[@davidhyer3404]

When keith was moving the gearbox to the mill was when I realised you had the right idea about how to set up a shop with that overhead crane. That's the most important tool in the shop in my opinion.

[@bcbloc02]

If you are doing heavy stuff it is invaluable. Having struggled without for 15 years in my old shop I knew it was a must have for my new one. I couldn't do what I do without it. :-)

[@iPleinAir]

Great idea for the home shop.

[@vicpatton5286]

Hi Keith Really enjoyed this episode too!! Following along during the square up required paying attention which is always good. You now have a creative new set up to use in the future as well. regards vic

[@JapanPop]

You’re a wonderful teacher, Keith!

[@BobPegram]

Great Job! I enjoyed the lesson on simple geometry used in a practical way. Pretty ingenious solution to this problem.

[@davidcuster4618]

Right attitude! Good video. Learned lots. Thanks. Keep up the good work!

[@russtuff]

Fantastic. Problem solved, so hard to not be perfectly pleased. And it was enjoyable to watch too.

[@daveanderson2316]

Depending on the condition of the keyway, I would assume it is parallel to the shaft and could be used to indicate off of. Like you say at the end of the day, mission accomplished! Very interesting stuff.

[@kenny5174]

Keep up the good work, great video! Looking at a milling machine, one can see where they were designed to accomplish a certain job, or task. Thanks for sharing. Would be cool to see a conference round table discussion, with you, Keith Fenner, Mr. Pete, and about 6 of the others talking about setups. You guys could be presented with a task, and write down the quick setup.

[@bsb0011]

Well done - way to think outside the box to get the job done.

[@andrewfraser4347]

Well done Keith, very clever.

[@hmshopfix6283]

Keith, I used a similar set up to "increase" the width of my BP mill table recently. Nice set up and thanks for a great video! Eric

[@roylucas1027]

What a great video! Use what you've got and be clever enough to know how to use it. Thank you.

[@kenzpenz]

Smoly hokes, I am so impressed . So looking forward to the rest of the project.

[@outsidescrewball]

Great job/video....just a thought...at the start if you had a digital cube level set to zero might have shown you the table drop that you suggested?

[@dietmarsteinhilber169]

The old saying. ( necessity is the mother of invention ) you got it , the right tool ,the right way ,the right job Any one that disagrees shall take a number and move to the complaint department.

[@normesmonde5332]

Thanks Keith, a great problem solving activity for my apprentices. Norm

[@MrBuck295]

I`m not a machinist by any choice of the word ,but I kept thinking your math was off when you indicated it in simply because of where you indicated versus where you needed to do the machining (multiply the length ) but you did finally get there

[@kevinmartin7760]

Some sort of sturdy floor stand could be used to hold the indicator against your reference surface with the X motion way out to the right, properly positioned for making the cut. That way the indicating would be done with the off-center table load and everything sagged and flexed as it would be when doing the machining.

[@combatmedic1980]

Keith, SIMPLY INGENIOUS !!! You the man !!

[@cvmikeray2]

Keith, Great video! Learned a lot on this one. I like to tool post grinder setup and the pivot explanation was great. Look forward to getting back out to visit again soon.

[@Dobbo2958]

Really interesting repair. Thanks for your time. Best wishes to you and your family.

[@63256325N]

All's well that ends well. Good job! Thanks for the video.

[@aldenhoot9967]

Great job. Very helpful coverage of the mistakes especially!

[@lito11111940]

Ingenious, work with what you have indeed.

[@jmhannnon]

I am going through the same business with the pivot points trying to align the spindle on my lathe right now.

[@OldIronLover]

Excellent video to demonstrate an essential machinist skill. How to work with a non-ideal setup, maybe some machine wear, etc. and still make a good part.

[@mectechman1]

Excellent stuff Keith! Well done.

[@larrysperling8801]

interesting workaround keith, thanks for another great video.

[@westischer2110]

Great video Keith, thinking outside the box. I really enjoyed this.

[@R.E.HILL_]

Best tool... using the noodle... pivot point reference... ☺

[@whitecaps775]

Wow, quite a bit of very good info for thought there. Thanks Keith

[@sharkrivermachine]

very elegant solution to an interesting problem.