Landmine Rogue... The MOST TOXIC Build Got BUFFED in Dark and Darker! Complete Guide

[@cship_8554]

@5:48 saying there is no counter play to rogue hide is a blatant lie to your viewers. Multiple classes have counter play to hide. Wizard light orb, warlock hydra, ranger chase perk, bard din of darkness, Etc. You are only speaking from a cleric mains perspective. I’ve revealed and defeated many stacked rogues using those simple tools mentioned. Now, what you should have said was not every class has a counter to rogue’s hide and then listed the classes who can most effectively. Hell, at @9:05 , the only reason that barb lost was because he missed every single shot on you but one, which took you under half health. Skill plays the biggest factor in this game. It isn’t the landmine that’s the problem, but it will always be the complaint. This vid is just another scream for rogue nerfs because their class isn’t as effective against them as others are.

[@Naxirian]

Bards man, I hate being lit up by those damn musical notes even if I'm just chilling in the dark haha

[@cship_8554]

@@Naxirian Yup very effective too. It’s wild to me that this streamer would go out of his way to lie to people simply because he forgets rogues are in his lobby.

[@BlazeScapes]

He’s a noob

[@cship_8554]

@@BlazeScapes He’s definitely not a noob, but, he clearly has an issue with remaining aware at all times. Lying to viewers is no excuse for that.

[@TatsuYahu]

When the rogue uses stealth to surprise his opponents 😯

[@mediandirt]

An under-valued aspect of Stiletto dagger that i dont hear about enough is the attack pattern. Because of the arm raise during stiletto animations its essentially giving you damage reduction and headshot protection because of forcing limb hits. If you dont have a poke weapon you are very very likely to hit their arm Compare it to the animation of rondel and kris and theres a reason it feels so good.

[@Firebox720]

@@mediandirt that's huge never considered this

[@Demorted604]

amazing point, i never thought of this

[@rudoku14]

now if only i didnt somehow wiff the stileto wayy more than the rondel i might get somewhere XD

[@ArtoriasDub]

@@rudoku14 fuckin SAME BRO lol

[@dankmeimes4274]

The most toxic builds are god mode cleric and perma kite warlock i fear This isnt even top 5

[@sordmasta6646]

not as toxic as a shirtless warlock slowly chipping away at you, then when he miscalculates and you catch him, he just ghosts away. meanwhile, blocks the doors and heals to full whenever he wants. at least with the rogue it is over fast.

[@petruradu7242]

Exactly and both are highly played in solos😭

[@MrHydra12]

@@petruradu7242swapped to rogue last night due to locks

[@Skorm.]

Cleric builds deff arent toxic and forsure are a lot of fun for people to play against though.

[@Firebox720]

More counterplay to them than landmine rogue. I'll gladly fight clerics over rogue any day.

[@Skorm.]

@@Firebox720 both are pretty cringe.

[@Firebox720]

@@Skorm. I find it hilarious no one cared about cleric until I started playing it. I saw some videos/people playing it sure, but the moment it becomes popular (regardless if it was me or not) all of a sudden its cringe. I did a poll just a week or so ago and tons of people were putting cleric down in bottom tier for solos. Prices of cleric gear doubled overnight after my initial no-spell build. I don't think it's nearly as OP as some of you are crying about, which is why I swapped builds that I feel counter the cleric build rather than complain about it or use it. Crazy how this cleric-hate train is going lol

[@Skorm.]

@@Firebox720 not only did i say that cleric build is cringe, I said landmine rogue is too. I agreed with you. This cleric build becoming popular is not what I ( I can't speak for others) think is cringe. Its the lack of counter play IMO most classes don't have available and how oppressive it can be. I play double crossbow weak point and cut throat rogue, no hide. I literally am the counter to clerics but only if I run that exact build. The reason I commented is because IMO the lack of counter play you were "crying" about is the same way people feel about the cleric builds you play. I was just pointing out the irony I see is all.

[@DrJesus-st9rk]

me trying to counter the 108% 65% PDR cleric with a 2 tap mace that stops me dead in my tracks..... yea no its not less toxic nor more fun

[@user-mw6ib8qo8j]

Landmine Rogues are crucial to the game's ecosystem. They keep the top-tier classes in check and require an insane amount of skill to play well.

[@DamienCloud]

I despise this rogue "playstyle" so much, when I get landmined I usually stop playing for days

[@WuHendrix]

cool story bruh

[@jakegray6577]

@@WuHendrix u must be a rouge lmao

[@DamienCloud]

@@WuHendrix play something that makes use of your 2 braincells pls

[@WuHendrix]

@@DamienCloud big mad cause ur big bad

[@WuHendrix]

@@jakegray6577 a rouge? I think it's called a rogue... And no, but I don't cry when i die to one

[@ReaperPlaysTv]

I think we just need the previous version of invisibility. Where your outline can be seen if you move. This change seemed balanced and wouldn't kill the class

[@r3sp0n2]

it killed the class outside of the

[@Piercemxpx]

repoze also says this is the best rogue build but i have been playing rogue for over 1000 hours and i have over 2000 hours in the game. i personally like thrust over ambush. you only get the benefits of ambush right after hide, but thrust benefits you at all times, including clearing mobs. it helps tremendously with that plus, it makes your weakpoint SHRED.

[@J4CKOID]

Thanks for bringing attention to this, would be good to see the shimmer come back to Hide.

[@Eclipsle]

So chase straight up shows me foot prints as a ranger, so landmine rogues are rather obvious when the footprints lead to a spot or are moving around. This is a direct counter to a landmine rogue as i can essentially see them

[@CrizzyEyes]

there's also light orb, people keep whining about it taking up a spell slot but if it leads to you getting a kill then it's not a waste

[@GrayeManeGaming]

@@CrizzyEyes wait what does light orb do against rogues?

[@CrizzyEyes]

@@GrayeManeGaming reveals invis

[@TheForestChannel1]

This build isn;t toxic. But taking their loot and dropping it if you don't intend to sell or use it, IS. Please don't do that, give people a chance to buy back their loses

[@Sorenguard98]

I just wanted to say, I DESPISE encountering landmine rogues. And it happens WAY too often, almost every other match if I'm not a rogue myself I get land mined by a rogue. Though I do want to thank you for putting out this video so that I can attempt to join the ranks of rogues. As that old saying goes, "If you can't beat them, join them"

[@Firebox720]

I think complete invisibility isn't fun to fight against. This also includes invis potions to landmine (as seen with cleric smite + faith combo). The lack of counterplay is my biggest issue. I would love to see a Rogue re-work to make them focused around other abilities instead and completely remove all invis from the game. Let me know what your thoughts are!

[@jeffblazos]

cope

[@aCID990]

Lmfao okaY

[@ddclips75]

Agree. This game is fun because of intuitive gameplay, fair fight stimulating the weapon switch etc. (As a chest game) the invis is too unpredictable and lead to frustration. They need to rework the rogue. Invis in shadow only, make him double jump again without huge malus ?

[@Euthafro]

I think they should lean into the damage over time, armor pen, and mobility side of rogue. Double hand cross is sorta toxic in a different way but at least there is counterplay. Hide/ambush also slows the game down in a way that I don’t find very fun. The fact that a rogue is in your lobby changes the way you have to play the entire match just because they could be around the next corner

[@Firebox720]

​@@Euthafro agreed

[@OceansDomain.]

Isn't that the point of rogue? Stealth assassin, that catches you off guard? lol

[@Naxirian]

It is, but people like to salt about rogues. You need to be attacking from stealth, if you aren't, you'll lose against most classes assuming they're equally geared and know what they're doing.

[@Demorted604]

The 100% jump scare tactic works; it's definitely worked on me in the past.

[@strelok64bit23]

I think rogue should be reworked to become less stealth and ambush style and more about combat team utility. For example, if rogue use smokes, he and his teammates will see enemies through it, while enemies will be effectively blinded in a fog. This is okay to play against, you know that fighting in melee or make a ranged firefight in/through smoke will be a huge disadvantage. Or giving you and your teammates poisoned weapon for the time being, so rogue can somewhat buff his teammates. Or make throwing knifes ignore PDR if you hit head, so rogues so be rewarded for their aim. Completely remove invisibility for rogues or make it possible only in shadows. Its unfair and unfun when rogue can sit in the middle of well-lighted room and pop up out of nowhere. Make more abilities to increase mobility. Jump away, grappling hook, door closing and lever activation in a distance, maybe even a double jump again. Something to make rogues playable on their own and playable as a party member, instead of just landmine camping style.

[@pepper1boy35]

Ok but rouges as it stand have very little health, their only good damage comes from needing to use several stacking buffs (so against two people? Forget it.) and the fact that stealth even WITH hide is just terrible in PvE, it made me quit playing rogue. Genuinely felt like I was trying to squeeze any amount of viability out of this class when I can just pick barbarian and get the same thing, and the only thing I'll miss is hide.

[@luisgerold6835]

What happened to Kripparrian

[@atwxll]

Honestly a big reason why I love druid right now. Dream walk has saved me from so many landmines.

[@rexyrek9010]

I have a druid build that specifically hard counters landmind rogues. I've never died to one and have killed rogues with better gear than me. If you stack will and debuff duration bonus your dreamwalk cooldown can get as low as 4 seconds from 12 seconds.

[@Joojinho]

@@rexyrek9010 wait, Will make your cooldowns smaller????

[@rexyrek9010]

@@Joojinho Yes it reduces debuff duration (aka spirit walk cooldown) so if you get 60% debuff duration bonus it will only be 4 seconds instead of 12. which means you are invincible as long as you dont get killed within the 4 seconds and dont run out of spells. Extreme hard counter to rogues if played right. they are litterally helpless little insects with this build. nobody is talking about this build or using it so your lucky you are one of the very few that know xd

[@stanislavp1739]

@@rexyrek9010can you recommend a beginner-friendly Druid KZbinr? Any time I meet a player I kinda panic and lost what to do

[@rexyrek9010]

@@stanislavp1739 poshypop is a good druid player and has videos on how to play it. hes one of the top druids in the leaderboard

[@minstrel7210]

"Most Toxic" Man, you know how many rogues I've had jump on me out of nowhere as a fighter just to get two shot? Honestly, playing rogue felt bad. Playing literally anything else made me feel like a god in comparison.

[@demolishweaklings]

exactly. as a rogue newbie playing mostly

[@pyrosupreme4473]

Yeah getting "landmined" can be seen coming in most cases, mobs pulled, lights out etc. If someone is worried about getting land mined they should clear towards unpulled mobs and close doors behind them so creep rogues are still forced to give a sound queue if they walk up behind you.

[@minstrel7210]

@@pyrosupreme4473 I actually did this last night and got a rogue to follow me. Little did he know, I was also thinking rat thoughts and was literally just around the corner waiting to ambush him 😂

[@CrizzyEyes]

as someone who plays rogue and fighter, rogue feels great if you don't go toe to toe with someone who has every advantage over you after you've wasted the surprise advantage

[@minstrel7210]

@@CrizzyEyes Yeah, in high gear lobbies, with the right stuff, they at least hit hard enough to kill someone during the surprise. But man, when almost every class is running move speed, you have to outplay them pretty hard past that point.

[@Cervantes420]

I killed a 3 man who just all sat down for a campfire with creep and invis lmao so much fun

[@AaronDoWrk]

I don’t know why people get mad at landmine it’s a part of the game rogue gets Nerfed so much.. He does no damage and you have to play so cautious because you get one or two tapped by every single player.

[@shelteringyou]

I think you forget a good warlock counters this type of play style specifically

[@datswassup9902]

@@ttsvoicewizard hydra is a good spell that you should be using often, do you run non hydra?

[@CrizzyEyes]

@@ttsvoicewizard don't see what's funny about it, i play with a wizard that uses light orb constantly and it's very valuable, we never get landmined

[@loganh8323]

People hate on it but I play like they’re always around cause I’m used to playing as one. Paranoid but I rarely die to them on any class

[@robforskinstein]

The second barbarian was trying to do a landmine thing.

[@wjwphoenix]

As u stated rogues are forced to play this as most of their skills just blow ass with the exception of like 3 of them, which is the armor pen one , cutthroat , hide and maybe rupture (if you go mosquito build which still isnt that great imo) everything else is just useless. Also doesn't help your as weak as tissue paper if you dont have BIS items. I think the only thing which needs to get nerfed / removed is creep....i just dont think it belongs in this game...especially when sound is SOOOO important for awareness. Invis has counterplay which comes from map and skill knowledge but once you have creep it just throws all of it out the window.

[@Alax-yy9od]

Anytime rogue can 100-0 geared fighters/barbs out of stealth hr is just all landmines Weve been through this like 5x idk why they gave them so much pen

[@votuzi3272]

Glad to know when I'm mining Cobalt this guy is gonna stab me in the back

[@RedX1II]

Clarification here, weak point is 40% of ARMOR BONUS - not Damage Reduction - realistically its more like 8-15% tops - + daggers = 25%/35%

[@FalchionEdge]

The playerbase is mostly new so yes hide beats all the new players instantly. Experienced players can easily deal with hide.

[@acr5917]

how do they deal with it lol just today a popular streamer in Solos died with a legendary kit. u cant deal with something u dont hear or cant see

[@FalchionEdge]

@acr5917 hide only lasts 6 seconds they are otherwise always visible. Face doors when looting a chest. When moving to a new room see if mobs are already dead, if so assume a rogue is waiting and bait out hide. It takes a high level of awareness.

[@CrizzyEyes]

@@acr5917 1. literally wait ~20 seconds after opening a door 2. any of the newer counter abilities (dreamwalk, hydra, light orb) 3. obvious tells like dead mobs

[@jevohnpurdham673]

I agree with getting rid if invis but to me being kited by a warlock that can cast as much as he wants is a way bigger problem. 1000 hydras blocking doors is getting old

[@GeorgeWKush-tl5do]

It's called jump. Also invis is fine

[@pyrosupreme4473]

Hydra block into the phantomize if the warlock was bad enough to let you get on him

[@twistedbrother]

> You can't meet players under 125 gs in your games if you're geared above that. Kills a guy with a grey chest couple minutes after that. Surely he was under 125 when he loaded.

[@twistedbrother]

> invis is a problem 3 out of 6 players killed either tanking their hits (barb), sneaking up to them without invis (bard) or straight up pressing W into a fighter. Didn't seem that invis was what was getting you kills. More like the lack of experience of your adversaries and your better gear.

[@demolishweaklings]

There are brackets now dude. He can't outgear them. You can be over 125gs without a chest lol. Literally.

[@Firebox720]

darkanddarker.wiki.spellsandguns.com/Gear_Score#Brackets Here ya go, the brackets on the dark and darker wiki for normals

[@twistedbrother]

@@Firebox720 oh, thank you. That does seem more legit.

[@yothatsmanny7383]

I feel like enough of the community is aware of invis rogues, makes it less affective if they get baited out of invis. Still strong without invis, but if invis is the issue, i think giving other classes a utility to unveil rogues like torch light bringing them out of invis would buff the situation without nerfing the class for the 20th time. I play rogue just fine without invis, so i wouldnt say its the classes identity unless its the only way you can play rogue. Most good rogues dont need invis though

[@Firebox720]

@yothatsmanny7383 the issue for me is a patient rogue is creeping through the dungeon, and you'll never know they are nearby. Once they know you are coming, they go invis, and there really isn't much counter play

[@yothatsmanny7383]

@@Firebox720 i agree, i wish i could spit ideas to the devs but im too far out of reach. If you wanted to bring the torch idea to light in the treb chat or in a video maybe it could get traction. Allow us to throw torches to uncover stealth, or a man with a lantern. We just need counter play, as a warlock with hydra i have counter play, but i cant speak for the rest of the class pool. Counter play feels good, removing stuff always feels bad for someone.

[@yothatsmanny7383]

@@pleasediscord1605 your comment is even wilder if you step back and think about what stealth is. To unveil someone sneaking with light is not a new idea, its actually one of the oldest ideas in the books and im just throwing it out there, there should be counter play. When people die to it they ask themselves "what could i have done" with really little option. If i can throw a torch to unveil hidden characters with a 2-3 meter range it would fit comfortably into the game play of DARK AND DARKER.

[@Shlippies]

I disagree that there is "no counterplay" to invis especially now that it's only 16 seconds max. An experienced player should know that any room with mobs cleared has the potential for a rogue to be waiting in invis. For me it's one of the things I enjoy about the game is learning the different interactions between classes

[@MrHydra12]

Issue is thrust rogue stacking vigor and damage can just dps check toe to toe with anyone not using a falchion or battle axe.

[@swagy6012]

I legit came up with this build by myself a few days ago. I was dominating with it but I didnt think I had cracked some kind of meta. Still very easy to die if you dont get your perfect set up

[@twistedbrother]

The barbarian hit you twice and got only half of your HP. Either you were kitted killing non-kitted players (which they seem to be, based on their reactions like they're seeing the rogue for the first time) or rogue has the most hp and pdr in the game to survive two hits from barbs axe (doubt).

[@kratosdertoten4035]

If you paid attention to the rest of his video, Normals has brackets now, and his gs was above 125 which means its impossible to go against non geared players, low skilled? Sure, but not gearless.

[@Rolf1994]

@@kratosdertoten4035 the gap is 25 not 125 and there is a Huge diffrence in 50-100 to 200+ with right stats on gear. the new +25 normal is the true sweat lobby. expt the barb all off the people he killede were super low geared with not the right stats. a Barb with 250-300 gs with right stats can more or less 1 shot rouge with feling axe :D

[@arthanis7831]

@@Rolf1994 theres new 25-125 bracket stealthily added to the game

[@twistedbrother]

Wiki also says, that there's a new shadow bracket, so the first option is incorrect)

[@CrizzyEyes]

@@kratosdertoten4035 calling all greens "geared" is a stretch it's extremely easy to get 150 gs or higher using only greens

[@Voshkalt]

People crying about pdr cleric , probably never get stabbed in the ass by good rogue even with 70-80% pdr will do nothing . The only thing u can do just wait patiently to die by them . Every goddamn matchmaking praying theres non high skilled rogue in my lobby 🤣

[@CrizzyEyes]

waiting patiently is literally the counter to this class because hide can't last longer than 24 seconds, i'm sorry but people like you sound like utter clowns when you say stuff like this

[@SurgestarFTW]

Babe wake up Firebox dropped a new video!!!!!!

[@ddclips75]

3 brackets system i mean normal for PvP and HighRoller for PvE is a very good move from Ironmace. They solve gear unbalanced problem IMO. Everbody was waiting for this update I think.

[@m5kocur708]

i think rogue is just strong vs bad players and you abuse most broken one cleric

[@CrizzyEyes]

Every class is strong vs bad players. That's kind of a dumb point

[@andreanrik]

The only wrong thing is the "no footsteps spund" .... other then that is fine ! You can hear him get close .... that s it !

[@DizzyNU]

Turning off light sources and not using potions on ur hip is a good tip for people using this build.

[@SkeletonFootman]

As Wizard main i feel pain by watching this ;.;

[@udontseethetruth]

When is the wizard video coming? Not a beginner guide but a specific build ? Maybe after a rework I assume lol.

[@Firebox720]

@@udontseethetruth wizard is in a seriously rough spot. I personally wouldn't bother with it right now.

[@jenericjoe7565]

rogue existing puts wiz in a terrible spot even without the nerfs that gutted it

[@Mobay18]

Ironmace should debuff the rouge damage from coming out of stealth instead of boosting it. But lower the cooldown to allow the rogue to play more in and out of fights.

[@sordmasta6646]

i'd like rogue to be more of a sneaky evasive thief, less of a burst assassin.

[@aggsolodl]

@@sordmasta6646 i feel landmine rogue used to be even worse but maybe i'm wrong. however theres so many different builds that you can run where you have to be the evasive thief.

[@cerealstealeryt5445]

They need to rebuff invis. For pickpocket I want to be able go be a sneaky rogue and avoid combat. Hide mastery needs to be removed and default invis needs to be1 min again, and 1:30 if weapons are sheathed etc.

[@TheStarfishGaming]

They dont need to get rid of invis they just need to turn the spell into a camouflage like on halo or something so you can see them, but also a lot of the builds youve showcased kinda show that when they buff classes they lose their mind and go crazy. Watching a cleric kill anyone who steps to them because wizard isnt viable anymore was fun to watch but probably not fun gameplay to go against. Im not sure if ive seen you play warlock but same goes for them. If they have move speed they are basically unbeatable and they literally chase you for 10 mins without rest and kill you death by a thousand cuts. The game is unbalanced in more ways than it is balanced to be honest. But I will say it has been a lot more fun than the last couple of patches

[@snaztw7]

The class imo is fine. From that first clip, bards are loud, but they stat check rogues in a head on fight, and kite other melee classes. Rogue is the ambush class. I personally find dying to a MS advantage in a kiting fight, is far more annoying and antifun compared to landmine. Daggers do need a nerf though.

[@christianlandgrave5796]

Agreed. I would rather get assassinated and move on than die due to the shitty movement mechanics of the game. They need to replace the speed boosts of classes like fighter and barbarian to dashes/leaps. That way it comes down to if they manage to dodge/juke instead of just a stat check on movement speed.

[@stealthyturtles]

I’d rather die to a patient player making a calculated play, like how rogues should be, over a fighter in 3/4 max PDR spamming a survival bow with 105% movement still, or a warlock bolting me and running, or just really any ranged kite tactic. That shit is frustrating, you can’t close the distance cause they just bunny hop away, anytime you land anything it’s a closed door into red+blue pots, and if you try to run it’s a flurry of arrows while chasing you down as you are trying to weave through mobs. The kite survival bow spam meta is really lame and it’s been here for far too long but there’s nothing they can really do. It’s poke poke poke poke and only willing to trade if you’re 1/4 hp and they know they win the trade.

[@arTE_]

are you sure about the math on weakpoint? if i read the wiki correctly, weakpoint reduces armor rating of an enemy, so in practice something like from 60% reduction down to 30-40% and from that 30-40% stilletto+thrust calculates armor pen, i dont believe they are additive, from what i played and read on wiki

[@MrFizz27]

I like the gear bracket changes. It let's me and my newish friends run some light gear and greens and not run into the super geared pvp players. And good for them too because they get the geared pvp they're looking for. Win win

[@RockoShaw]

How do you know what to loot? On the first loot you didn't take armor and helmet

[@geneseus]

I think there even is a 4th bracket starting at 400 but I am not sure

[@MiloTCG]

can you no longer see the outline when invis?

[@Firebox720]

@@MiloTCG there is a very brief period you can see them. But when rogue moves they are completely invisible with no audio queues due to creep

[@mediandirt]

So they did remove the shimmer. That's wild.

[@MiloTCG]

@@Firebox720 oh, I hadn’t realized they reverted invis back to complete invisibility. Interesting change to say the least.

[@meat.]

@@MiloTCG right? They don’t even mention this stuff

[@MiloTCG]

@@meat. if they did, I definitely slept on it lol

[@brennanorr2]

I would actually say pdr mdr fighter is def the most toxic build ur invincible and just bully ppl lol this is a good change they fixed pdr meta they need to add more magic pen

[@Swoots275]

longer vids please

[@BuffPachy]

bro when i play rogue it takes me like 20 hits to killa dude, i 1v1'd a cleric and dodged like 90% of his attacks but somehow after i had been hitting him for around 15 seconds i died and he was at 20% hp

[@Firebox720]

You must not be building a kit properly. A geared , even semi geared, rogue would not take this many kits to kill someone.

[@BuffPachy]

@@Firebox720 it was under 25 lobbies so no rly kits

[@dalej4241]

@@Firebox720190 hp cleric with perserverance easily survives a rogue landmine

[@besusaltin5157]

i thought they still see your pots while invisible? dont they?

[@CrizzyEyes]

that was never a thing

[@rubenortiz6373]

Says the guy walking around with max pdr cleric 😂😂

[@Firebox720]

Haven't played that build in a few days now. Moved on to other classes! Didn't die to a single cleric all day. It's not as OP as everyone likes to cry about, keep coping thanks

[@Gerps]

"This build is TOXIC and I hate it... but I'll play it if it gets me views" would have been a better title

[@Firebox720]

@@Gerps I forgot I was not allowed to try out different classes, sorry! After encountering multiple rogues per lobby I figured I'd see what all the hype was about

[@Gerps]

@@Firebox720 You can absolutely play whatever you want. I'm mostly just trolling.

[@rubenortiz6373]

@@Firebox720 cmon broski, don’t act like you don’t main pdr cleric lol. A “few” days is funny because you have been playing this game for months if not a year or so mostly cleric. It’s all good I’m just trolling no need to get in your feeling.

[@acompyhd347]

last few days ive been landmine rouged on so many times i dont even wanna play anymore

[@KrisAir1]

bro for real, landmine rogues completely ruin my fun for solo play

[@diegoley7700]

Yep

[@evolutionari]

Hey Firebox, I'm a casual player who's trying to get better at this game. The thought processes and the run progression are usually what I lean from, aside from playing. Is it possible for you to also load some full run videos instead of jumping into PvPs? I'd benefit a lot from seeing the start and how to approach a PvP in general.

[@Firebox720]

@evolutionari the best place to see full games is under the "live" tab on my youtube channel which showcases full games from stream

[@evolutionari]

@@Firebox720 Thanks, I appreciate the response!

[@Rammusokay408]

Will you consider doing a bear Druid video

[@venomphilthy5035]

Peculiar how everytime Cleric becomes ridiculously broken Firebox finds another class that’s “broken”

[@Shane11738]

I don't really care how strong other classes are because they at least let you play the game. Rogue is so unfun to play against. Spam light orb in every corner and sit down to get them back every time you walk in a room.

[@CrizzyEyes]

@@Shane11738 or you could just use a single light orb at a chokepoint where the rogue would be forced to creep through and wait there about 20 seconds because that's the maximum time that Hide can last, but that would require actual knowledge of how the game mechanics work

[@Shane11738]

@@CrizzyEyes I had no idea that rouge invis only works in door ways. For those of us that don't like camping a choke point for half the game we have to use a lot more light orbs to clear rooms.

[@CrizzyEyes]

@@Shane11738 wow it took you 5 days to act like a clown and suggest that invis has infinite duration well done

[@Shane11738]

@@CrizzyEyes Took me 5 days because I touch grass occasionally, you should try it :) You know what does have infinite duration? The fucking 0 volume crouch walk. Its not even that good of a class like I said in my original comment its just annoying 0 skill landmines everywhere

[@Bael1993]

This isnt landmine rogue, you have the Stealth perk on and are moving lol. Landmine waits for people to come into them and ambush one taps them. This is just being a rogue brother. But don't worry, we're no clerics.. *Cough cough what class do you main FB?*

[@zackeryhammond4401]

As long as u don’t stop swinging on rogue u win everytime literally no matter what most time just don’t run just swing hunless they r insanely kitted people just be hating and this why classes get shit in the ground for a season warlock is crazy and cleric is crazy af rogue ain’t seeing either one UNLESS they get the drop on them which is the only thing that really makes rogue good kite rogue sucks ass

[@Eldesinstalado]

weakpoint sucks, barely lowers the pdr% , rupture will deal more damage

[@Pkasso89]

If you're looking for the perspective of an experienced player to learn how to jump scare - this is your guy. Firebox knows where to hide, he can also sniff out rogues on the other side of things. This is the Rogue video you're looking for.

[@suat9460]

When theres too many landmine rogues people can always play ranger with chase or warlock hydra every corner or or druid with dreamwalk and bear form if you're daring enough bring out 10 spell wizard with light orb

[@Firebox720]

@suat9460 yeah I guess but that doesn't really make for a good game experience being forced into this. I'd rather them just remove all invis. I've done the Warlock Hydra push but it gets very tedious having to do it at every single corner

[@andersonborges5377]

I prefer to uninstall than to hydra every suspicious corner in the game, it becomes boring very fast

[@robforskinstein]

@@Firebox720if they removed all invis what would rogue look like as a class?

[@danielxuc1]

Why you didn't put the part when you static camp me (a poor lvl 10 cleric) and then die to a rogue who was following me!!

[@TheCleclement]

wpa and armor pen doesn’t stack it doesn’t work like that unfortunately

[@Firebox720]

@TheCleclement I'm guessing it takes the weapon% then takes the weakpoint %? For example, 10% then 40% of the new number?

[@akokoc3239]

@@Firebox720 I am pretty sure weak point takes off 40% of their pdr, and then after that your armor pen takes effect onto the "nerfed" armor rating they have

[@i_Kodoku]

Rogue is in a great spot. The most "toxic" build is the invincible solos cleric.

[@Mrfaisalariffin89]

Sooo many people complaining bout rogue. Nobody mentions how trash they are as team mates in duos or trios. Yea its great solo. But in a team its pretty useless. Strong in the right situation yes. But go up against an experienced team. Mostly dead weight.

[@erich1380]

Its not the invis element thats the problem. Think about wow pvp. The problem is theres stun/cc mechanics available to other classes so theres no counterplay. Not to mention the numbers work better in a game like wow because you dont die in two seconds. Classic reference is like rogue vs frost mage. You can frost nova blink, ice block etc. priests can physic scream/power word shield. Warriors can intimidating shout. Theres no way to get the rogue away from you once hes on you. Would cc be a good idea to add into this game? Maybe not. Im just saying total invis is possible

[@Baba.Ganoush]

Why do people call it Landmine rogue? makes no sense to me. Isnt it just Ambush Rogue ?

[@greatbregs5429]

oh wait! i watch your live streams!

[@Butch808]

So playing with the tools given to you is "toxic" right...

[@viktor1master]

im after 30+ hours as rogue main and the problem i have is speed and damage i die 2 hits from any other class and ppl are c*unts and kill you even naked x( i suffer sou now its time to be toxica allso creep does not work like that anymore damn im sad

[@Antoan_J]

Yep, I was excited to play Rogue as new player, now i have like 100hours... and after latest nerf etc i feel like ppl see me in dark+in invis.. its crazy shit. I sit in dark spot, nothing on me(pots etc in inv) and there are guys, who just walk to me and straight kill me:)) im like wtf. Also the footsteps, i play with HyperX Cloud 2 headphones, and I totally hear shit, even after some sound tuning etc. i feel like i play my Rogue with plate boots or what :D

[@FrostyyDog]

just died to this.... so I made a rogue

[@ripsy]

Weakpoint is not 40 armor pen

[@CrankRages0127]

BRO wtf do you use to record i cant seem to record without stutter on recording, obs with a "chad" computer shits busted

[@taekwon4980]

These builds keep getting dork and dorker

[@mewni2956]

A rogue is being a rogue... wild. Time to remove the holiness of clerics next, clearly!

[@redlizardfighter]

what your dark and darker server?

[@billiejoewilliams7951]

so if you use stealth you are completely invisible? I thought rogue hide was changed to show a silhouette when moving

[@kidkodex7696]

Yes, they are completely invisible

[@jougetsu]

unless you use esp like 50% of the playerbase (excluding new players)

[@victorv1151]

Lest a make a class that cannot be seen and cannot be heard. Hits you 3 or 4 times before you can react, but hey skill issue.

[@CrizzyEyes]

if you got stabbed 3 times and didn't react, even with max action speed, yes, it is a skill issue

[@victorv1151]

@@CrizzyEyes ayyy found the rogue alright dude go wait in the corner, true skilled gameplay.

[@brandonstephens2607]

Land mine rouge is honestly one of the only ways I die usually and I just log off. I get it. It’s in the kit but it’s cancer.

[@HerbalLeaf]

I think rogue is in a good spot, the game is gaining traction and good reviews where things are. I think gutting the class with the amount of new rogue enjoyers may cause a potential review bomb and reddit drama like we have seen with games like hell divers and could be a devastating move from IM. I recently made high roller off meta tank tumble video and had a blast, but that kit is stupid expensive to create, like 15k+. I wish the tank kits were cheaper as I would run it way more often. I think a bigger focus right now should be nerfing the yeti meta, yes its fun playing the mouse and destroying entire frost cave duo and trio lobbies trying to learn the game. But I think THAT has less counterplay than a solo rogue atm and that specifically impacts a larger number of people at scale and can completely ruin a map experience for them as they try to learn the game with their friends. I recently made a video taking the rat king title from TheSpudHunter and it was just utter chaos for them as I bullied them. IMO I think rogue is performing its role correctly sneaking, patiently waiting for the right moment to strike, and killing your target before they even knew you were there.

[@justly3943]

Rogue is why solo high gear score is unplayable. Almost every other raid you get landmined and 3rd partied by a rat ass rogue thats going to 2 shot you regardless of your armor😂

[@Scriptsx]

i agree, but putall those players and switch the rogue with a barb with 200hp and shout, is it still fair?

[@kidkodex7696]

That wouldn’t happen if rogue was nerfed… barb isn’t as op as he used to be

[@micky160]

I get you man. Dying in less than two seconds without having any chance to react or do anything shouldn't be considered acceptable gameplay for a player to experience in any scenario, it's why ranger needed a damage drop off nerf so people weren't dying across the room without seeing it coming. I remember dying with a 40% PDR 137 HP Bard in what must have been 1.5 seconds to landmine rogue, even though I was being vigilant enough to use shriek of weakness on the other side of the door beforehand. Rogue just makes the solo's experience unbearable for certain classes at the moment.

[@Firebox720]

You would think this is how most people think. I guess some people enjoy this gameplay strangely enough. I had hoped with the HP boost we would see slower kill times and longer fights, instead I'm met with constant landmines. This isn't to say there are other issues in the game, but pure invis to kill someone instantly is not a fun or engaging game mechanic

[@stanislavp1739]

Also I don’t understand how do you even supposed to play a wizard against this? I mean what’s even the point of playing a class if you can insta-die any second?

[@micky160]

@@Firebox720 I agree. And people will instantly jump on you for suggesting changes that would rectify problems or move the state of the game towards a better path by saying you just want it easier for your certain class to succeed against theirs. Like I'm sure most people who play Cleric even would say that the faithfulness + smite slow on hit interaction is way too oppressive, a perk effect that might of been valid before the movespeed changes is way to powerful now and either should be changed or removed. As bad as it is though, it isn't making an entire gamemode 'solos' not just a matter of having eternal vigilance and playing skittishly all the time to succeed as there still is counterplay involved (albeit very difficult to pull off baiting smite without being hit once). Anyway, I don't have high hopes, the devs tried to fix this before but they always go back eventually on the changes that were meant to fix these issues, although it did used to be much worse before.

[@micky160]

@@stanislavp1739 You can try a wizard staff mastery build with some pdr and max health, haven't died once to a landmine using it. But that build and playstyle is problematic for it's own reasons and kind of needs to go too.

[@seththomas3971]

how are you moving so fast crouched? i feel like im at negative 99 percent MS when im moving crouched

[@tutorialbiz]

creep perk on rogue

[@BathgateToushiru]

i think fighting cleric that deals most dmg, heals is not even slow has heals and really good weapon with high ptr is more toxic then 3 hit rogue that might sneak on you and then 70% he wins if hes geared properly :3

[@jenericjoe7565]

I think cleric is definitely more overpowered since it can basically do the same "no counterplay" type of setup but is viable in every format of solos, duos, trios. That being said rogue is without question more "toxic" since you get stat checked 100% of the time if they're running +true on ur rings, cape, necklace

[@K.G8]

@@jenericjoe7565 rogue is way more broken dont even try to argue, against a cleric u can atleast... nah you cant but atleast you know you're gonna die and not gonna be ambushed while looting some shit

[@CrizzyEyes]

@@K.G8 so you prefer to die slowly rather than quickly? weird take if you feel like the fight is competitive then that's one thing but you're talking about dying 100% of the time here

[@skylermeade]

ranger is way worse, highkey want the class removed, understand its importance tho

[@Painjusu]

Being invis should just get removed and reworked

[@Firebox720]

@@Painjusu yah im with you there

[@NeilBFormy]

While landmine Rogue may not be the most fun thing to die to I think it’s necessary to make people have to think before just stampeding through the map in full purple gear rolling over lower geared players in solos. Sure some changes may need to be made but rogues do add a necessary level of complexity to the game

[@MrHydra12]

The lack of self awareness Rogues can do exactly what you described all day long. Just get lightfoots and one roll of interaction speed and mobs no longer exist.

[@GhostManPRO]

"The problem with rogue" according to you is that he functions exactly like a rogue should... Rogue is the most underpowered class in the game by miles, people like you only complain because they are eternally salty about each time they get landmined. Get over it.

[@DirtyDan95]

you know youve played too much when you try to inspect gear on a youtube video

[@PedroDoderoEscalante]

Yeah, free player here, was just about to buy the game today but then got killed by this build 3 times. Let's just say I didn't purchase the full game after that.

[@CrizzyEyes]

it's a noob stomp build, every PvP game with character builds has them dude

[@PedroDoderoEscalante]

@@CrizzyEyes very true, however that doesn't make it ok. At the very least it tipped the balance for me and decided to not buy the game. Probably not the only one.

[@TheNo1Stunna]

The counter play to this is ESP. it's the reason I quit playing rogue .

[@marinkingprime4931]

RIP pdr :'(

[@michaelluff9694]

Rogue getting nerfed is the funniest thing I have heard in a minute good joke!

[@K.G8]

rogue is most op solo class right now