Laning versus Nightmarish Matchups

[@jasoncruz3074]

In the lower bracket, if you’re mid with this kind of matchup and try to ask politely for supports to rotate, you’ll just get a “fail mid lol”

[@VinniePaul91]

Yeah I usually tell my team beforehand if my lane is going to go really bad, like Void vs Huskarr or Puck vs Sniper. It's a problem because they usually won't show up untill sniper is like level 7 at which point a sniper easily 1v2s a Puck + a lvl 3 or 4 support.

[@Ohanrahan]

Reply is 5 days old but just wanna say thats exactly it, im floating between Legend 1-3 and all i get if im mid is - go F*ck yourself Then again i mostly play support anyway, but even if i would rotate mid, i dont think my mid would pay attention and set-up to get a kill anyway. Just doesnt happen in 3K bracket unfortunately, would be cool to see plays like that happen, but it just aint happening lmao.

[@CayoxBgt]

It's SEA server 😅

[@Teinve]

Luckily bsj says you just can just rotate to side lanes yourself if you get no help mid

[@grimonce]

@@Ohanrahan true, but the people playing these heroes like huskar, viper or bane tend to overextend cause they always get ahead and once you're in midgame and stick as 5 they're basically useless..

[@ChainOfCommand12]

The bounty rune is low-key a great recovery tool for a losing lane because it sets you up to gank the enemy offlane, which is typically pushed in and exposed. Also the ability to stack two camps is an alternative money making tool that will be difficult for the enemy mid to contest. Would feel really bad if you didn't have a hero that could clear camps fast though, but typically heroes that cannot clear fast are better gankers, hence the bounty rune. This is a great video to showcase what to do when things aren't going your way. Too much content nowadays is "how to exploit a lead".

[@Cricket0021]

Thats why i never get the bounty runes when i play 5. My mid might need the rune eventually. I see a lot of 5's leave the lane to get 50 gold worth of bounty

[@asasipogi]

I do get the bounty rune as a support if i see my mid is not and does not have a bottle. Is that ok?

[@thiag0d]

If he doesn’t have bottle, yes, but if he does, eventually he will need the regen, even if delays a little bit to take it, so you should leave to him.

[@Cricket0021]

@@asasipogi yes. I think its totally fine if your mid doesn't buy a bottle. Because bounties are sort of a plan b if they don't secure the first power runes.

[@parham1023]

While letting them having the lane is the move, as a huskar player, you should try to gank him if you can as supports. Huskar can actually farm decently thanks to burning spear, so he will spiral outta control eventually. Also be mindful that OD can rotate, while a viper or a huskar are "sit mid" heroes. Also Necro is great against OD and Bane. Not so much against Huskar and Viper cause they have insane magic resistance. And before any captain obvious talks about necro syth: good huskar players wont die to that shit.

[@urielnascimento3567]

Viper can also be a pain if he tanks well enough. His ult on sidelanes is a very good initiation considering he has the lvl advantage and, thanks to that, higher damage + poison attack

[@joshuamcc8612]

Can you please do one of these but in regards to nightmare side lanes, like versing a veno and viper lane and what to do when you can’t even get near the creeps

[@DUKEHadToDoItToEm]

Leave the lane if you can't sap xp without dying. Stack camps, go for runes and try to gank other lanes, or go walk up to the cores in the other lanes and make them unable to CS or sap xp in their lane If you literally cannot gain in any way in your own lane, the next best thing is usually to go make sure the enemy cores are just as annoyed as you are Also if you're playing any sort of gank or invisible hero (Bounty, Pudge, Earth Spirit, etc) you can play mind games by just disappearing from your lane early, it'll make the other two lanes play cautious and scared and therefore they'll get less XP less CS etc.

[@leexingha]

if u cant farm or leech exp, why not apply same thing to other enemy core? to beginwith, u nid to consider smart picking

[@Cricket0021]

Leave lane if you are support. Try to not feed them kills and stack for your carry or something. Only pull the small camp if the wave is really close in the enemy tower, otherwise play with your carry in lane as much as possible until the lane is unplayable anymore. Thats when you retreat to your jungle as carry and roam as support and force enemy support to rotate giving your carry breathing room to catch creepwave.

[@EbolaBearr]

Sumail still such a goat mid laner, beating topsons toxic bane twice in winning and losing matchup. Great video BSJ!

[@BB8enjoyer]

They don't kill your tower. And they don't farm. In that reckoning, bring back min 5 meme hammer OD with 14 HP regen

[@sebastianGunnarson71]

Yes bane cant flash farm but he stops you from killing his tower which is impactful and then he gets every cs mid becasue hes dominating

[@leexingha]

@@sebastianGunnarson71 that bane is a hard matchup

[@anarmustafayev1555]

This is a valuable lesson in life as well, sometimes you are outmatched by the circumstances or more powerful people, take the small efficiencies, do the best you can and wait for your moment.

[@alexandrosgkagkatsis3871]

Had a same matchup at 5k yesterday where I played VS and Leshrac against Viper 2 times in a row. Implied this exact patterns and was able to be top net worth in both games with no sweat and no interaction on mid at all. Managed a kill with VS on Viper level 2 and that was it. Such good videos to be honest. Especially where you talk about giving up rune and stacking ur mid camps to be functionable.

[@121gonzalo]

@0:25 that laugh sounded so miserable lmao (nice video as always)

[@YugenDota]

I really needed this mindset shift, thank you.

[@horodhorod509]

Thank you, BSJ. That works. I did died in mid like 3-4 times before I realised that I couldn’t match up, so started to rotate to my teammates and farm for myself. Eventually, we won. It’s like to hide your ego and start doing decent things required. Well..😅

[@ivandaykov904]

yea good but both of the times sumail plays radiant. if you are dire and you are getting owend i think it will be a little bit harder becouse of the position of the camps and the bounty rune

[@GoblinFiend-]

This was the most informative video! BSJ rocks!! I love this kind of content!

[@EthosMalak]

Very helpful video, thank you. Could you do a similar topic targeting the side lanes?

[@adamhero459]

I hope people on my mmr see this. It seems like people just play the same way no matter how good or bad the matchup is. And then they blame others when they are being way too aggressive and die non stop.

[@zainfutureali4269]

what should i do when i have a pos5 sniper with mbk first item? plus he don't gives a f about team

[@AmirulAsyraf-mq7bx]

In hindsight, if you win mid lane, you have options to rotate or continue farming and take the tower.

[@ramonsohal2404]

I just don't know how to play the game vs OD. It's impossible to lane most of the time and when you let him alone he farms up pike/witchblade and goes into hex/bkb next. I feel there is nothing I or my team can usually do at that point. He kills everyone with 3-4 autos and litteraly never lets a teammate die because of astral. Obviously people are less coordiated in pubs and to me it seams that when you let OD farm it just gets even worse. If any of you guys have any useful advice, I'd be grateful - there has to be a way to win against this hero... Out of all heroes OD seems to be the one I struggle most with.

[@thomashill4380]

BKB linkens

[@badrinath5306]

Nice. Can u make a video for changing from ranged heroes to melee heroes? Asking for myself.

[@KiDQute]

In low skill brackets once you lose mid the entire team just gives up. I've done this. Died in mid lane once and I tell team, "lane is lost" I'm going to jungle and roam. And then they get upset and tilt.

[@leexingha]

because u r getting selfish. ur teammates are the ones who will suffer in return. while they r taking the brunt of rampaging uncontested mid, u r trying to catch up by farming endlessly in ur jungle away from enemy sight with no care watsover to ur teammate getting raped left and right. these are always the case in low bracket be it the mid or carry

[@lock3265]

I will say for what its worth, viper is a bit different than the other single target murderers. A moderately ahead viper 6+ in laning stage with viper strike up can usually at least get a return kill if ganked, or a 1v2

[@leexingha]

this is wat i love with viper. depends on wat u r facing, it can go toe to toe 1v2 when theres a roaming sup

[@BB8enjoyer]

There's also this case of Maybe ember destroying an OD mid. Both in CS and killing him 3x. And nope OD was rank 25

[@tosanaji5185]

Yeah maybe is kinda goated tho Idk

[@nutellabrah6718]

Thank you for naming the actual strongest mids luv u

[@Mr.Who-to-blame]

Bane with enfeeble instead of nightmare is just broken ... Especially if bane got soul ring to spam it with brain sap ... Theres no way u can lane to last hit or even cast ur spells due to the cast range reduction of enfeeble ... No idea why topson didn't actually go that route against DK since his main kit revolves around physical dmg and with enfeeble u get dmg per sec / dmg reduction up to 75% and cast range reduction of 50%.

[@edwardr791]

Kinda wish you covered more of the Huskars and Vipers instead of Bane because it’s not that common to see Bane mid especially on non-pro pubs

[@isaacsiew7620]

Welcome back sensei. Good content as always

[@Yonny316]

Shouldnt topson max q against dk instead of brain sap so dk cant cs for shit?

[@kiro253]

I think he tot he could kill dk at some point since sumail actually got pretty low many times...but turn out dk really just scale faster than bane damage

[@Yonny316]

@kiro253 yea my thoughts of why I would go q instead

[@playdota2CS4fun]

Nice to see u back again bananaman )

[@bioticgod]

This is the thing that enrages me the most about low level pubs. Supports will never tp to refil your bottle, they'll never try to guarantee runes, they'll never gank if your lane is hard (unless it is a spirit breaker).

[@invven2750]

Other problem is that they always expect you to win the lane

[@zpokie123]

Yeah if you ask for help they just call you bad mute you and greif.

[@imfinishedgrinding638]

I think whenever I play support I always start rotating to to help mid contest the first power rune nearing min 6 and whether I fail or succeed on that I'll bolt straight towards enemy's wisdom rune spawn even if I have to die for it. It's generally much easier to do so when I'm playing 5 when I'm already laning to where the wisdom spawn. The one think I keep forgetting though is making meaningful trades in lane to chip away the enemy lanes HP and try for a kill even if I have to trade kill for it which is the perfect scenario to be able to tp refill bottle for mid. Walking back to base when low and then tping to mid to refill their bottle is too time consuming.

[@TherealBDL]

Then move out of herald. Problem solved

[@Pratee10k]

I tp mid and ping on empty bottle as well but my mid doesn’t know about refilling the bottle.

[@Library4Lich]

What an insanely good video this is

[@thed4rknss673]

What i see in my games is that my mid laner understand that he can't stay in lane and start to rotate, but he forget that he need to come back mid and farm a wave that was pushed into his tower, the enemy eventually get more gold and create space on the map and we eventually lose the game bc my mid was bot for 6 minutes straight and farmed 1 camp and got a assist for the HC 🤡

[@KingGR]

Man the pauses of the video are killing me, jesuz christ

[@MuhammadAbdullah-rf2il]

Dont know about other matchups but kotl specifically good against viper and maybe huskar

[@SkateFallen1424]

huskar is horrible against viper. viper is a hard counter

[@SkateFallen1424]

oh nvm i see what youre saying

[@avaragegrandsummonerenjoye8552]

Can’t have a nightmare lane if you’re barely laning at all

[@shuubham_555]

I think specifically for bane mid, invoker quas wex works great. Bane has amazing spells for early cs and denying u cs with his q but he is heavy mana reliant. Voker qw can fuck him up and also rotate to other lanes with ghost

[@MuhammadAbdullah-rf2il]

Qojqva picks are godlike in these cases. He just picks Kotl and stacks for himself and nuke creepwave from the tower

[@TokyoSwan.]

Who is a great support player I can learn from on youtube?

[@TheGlenn8]

zquixotix

[@erickfiori]

Welcome back! Long time no see.

[@thenorthmen3148]

Can you post a video of your pos5 griefing lane?.. not you losing lane, while your pos5 is doing their job. I wanna see how a carry recovers after the first 4-5 minutes of your pos5 not dewarding, pulling, helping secure range or harassing. This is 50% of archon/legend games. It’s so incredibly hard to want to play.. knowing you’ll be playing from behind. I know you can just jungle.. but that’s still difficult if you have zero farm.

[@tobijadoll1641]

I would love to see the crown back on sumail.

[@ApexFungi]

@BSJ why so may "air quotes" ? " " " ? ooh, and great video.

[@ejicint]

I've played sf against marci one time and i died like 4 times in lane (because of my stupid ass and marci has supports rotating to his side). I just farmed while evading enemy rotations (i bought myself obs and sents cause our supports can't safely ward/deward) until I closed the exp and gold gap, we won that game although it's more because of my teammates.

[@cr1ticaL-]

Thank you. Very cool video

[@azaz6951]

I had a support spec in one game lol

[@mondaymoon4993]

brotha why no post for 8 days :(

[@raijinvortex7855]

Nice content. Would like to see someof your brian canavan channel uploads. You inspire me

[@zywoousedtobesosimple7584]

Thank you

[@BB8enjoyer]

Sumail playing the prime topson way. I see lose lane, gank, doesn't hit neutrals win game.

[@NoumanKhan-ck7vx]

thanks

[@smol9832]

Thats why hes the king

[@invven2750]

Huskar vs Melee Heroes Or Huskar vs Magic Damage heroes Or Huskar Vs TA Huskar vs anything other than Viper Windranger Death Prophet Sniper Timbersaw AA

[@zanido9073]

u forgot lina

[@kiro253]

Honestly viper is the worst...pretty good ganking can farm fast...lane is soo bad for the enemy...and the late game potential is pretty strong too since he becomes a universal hero

[@jakegrigs7108]

All these videos about “unfair matchups”, always showcase a hero like Sven or lesh and we just see them run into jungle, how about a hero that doesn’t clear creeps instantly at lvl 2

[@Thomas-bq4ed]

You can always gank like he showed. Soak XP and rotate, if you can’t jungle and can’t rotate. Then it’s your fault, your pick was super bad, or you are just losing 3 lanes and goodluck. It’s a big deal that you, yourself pick something that may have to jungle, or make sure you win your lane

[@---we8bx]

You know its your conscious decision when picking a hero, why would you pick an unfavorable hero in the first place? Valve actually have design the game to have more recovery mechanic, such as stacking, neutral items, wider jungles, talents, bounty runes, XP rune, lotus. You just have to learn to play with those.

[@shade4718]

@@---we8bxbrainrot pls stop commenting

[@---we8bx]

@@shade4718 gtfo, you sh*ting on people, while im just sharing ideas.

[@bluejay7058]

@@shade4718He's literally right: if you dislike having your hero choice being dictated by the game state and lane matchups: go fucking play League.

[@stevekno164]

Ha ha! If I ask for help in my game for mid, my team would tip me and report me for dying/losing to a bane mid then proceed to grief

[@leexingha]

communicate PROPERLY. in 1v1 u r suppose to deal it alone as necessary coz ur other teammate is doing 2v2 on their own. if a support has to leave, then that lane will become 1v2 so u can have 2v1. sounds more selfish to me coming from a crying mid coz he is losing 1v1 mid. talking about laning phase incompetentness. to dominate laning phase, counterpicking is one huge determining factor but winning the game is composed of not just winning a laning phase but also includes other factors

[@Paddyhudson]

Kind of you to give Gorgc somebody to else to blame for losing those 2 games.

[@Attham]

Most mid summarised 19 minutes into 2 questions --> 6:06

[@oyaji_sus6882]

Nice video. Reminds me of my friend who went 0-6 on mid and just wouldn't leave until he gets level 6 in lane. We kept on telling him to get out because he's literally feeding the enemy. He just rage quitted so we went 4v5. Still won. Lol

[@Loshyad]

yo, man!! big fat respect and much love from ukrainian fans!!

[@Billy_Herrington1969]

Just jungle cuh

[@takumifujiwara300]

If u play Bane, Sniper, and OD you touch kids.

[@SkateFallen1424]

huskar too

[@samuelsewa7838]

single target fu ...

[@human_being99_3]

there is nothing more tilting than playing a game vs these kinda heroes and you die 1x...2x... and you cant go jungel and u know if you go to the lane again you will die again but u see no other option its so frustrating

[@pcxxy]

Liked, commented, subscribed ;)

[@timandafish]

Mid lion is also cancer

[@pa1nted]

if theres a bane in your lane you must refrain from giving brain know what im sayn

[@nikoskonstantinidis6239]

lone druid make easy work of all those bad boys haha

[@parham1023]

Depends: As a huskar player, I've beaten so many LD.

[@ghosthamster6521]

Lone druid is one of those bad boys. He has the highest base stats in the game.

[@invven2750]

Huskar literally eats Huskar

[@nikoskonstantinidis6239]

@@parham1023 okay, okay, Huskar probably the exception to that list, and probably beats a lone 55/45%, depending on how first couple of lanes go, who puts pressure, some lucky entangles, that kind of stuff, but OD, Viper, bane are just food for lone druid.

[@sonitgorla4125]

Huh ? LD wins viper and Huskar and OD? You know nothing about LD sir , stop talking.

[@lordoftherain]

I thought sumil wasnt the top tier mid anymore XD

[@haidersultan1925]

hes not a top tier player anymore but mid? hes always been the best.

[@horodhorod509]

+

[@myssery984]

9k mmr strat for 1ks lol

[@Martin-ff6zp]

first!!!

[@spectre_00]

Congratz , clap clap -__-

[@DUKEHadToDoItToEm]

Too long didnt watch version: Only play in bad lanes to defend tower or gank, 1v1 heroes won't get anything extra out of you leaving the lane anyhow, if theyre going to CS in your face and theres nothing you can do you might aswell not sit there and watch, go do literally anything else