Laowa 20mm F4 C-Dreamer Shift Lens Review | DA

[@kuremotokyo]

I have the 12mm F2.8 (17mm with Shift converter) and it's my favorite lens. The image quality is better in 12mm (without the converter). So when i use it in 17mm with the 42MP of my Sony 7R3 i reduce the size by 51% in post production to achieve a really sharp image with a width of 4000px. Another big advantage of a Shift lens is to make straight pan shots in video! With a normal lens if you're tilted a little bit upwards because you want to include the top of buildings or trees in your footage, when you make the pan it's not straight, it's an arc of circle...

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

Exactly.

[@wandererstraining]

The 12mm f/2.8 + MSC is also one of my favorites! Whenever I go in the city and don't bring it along, I regret not doing so. Love the perspective, and I find its rendering quite nice.

[@EvanWisheropp]

Thanks for the video. I’ve got a ponderance, with the 65mm image circle, would it work to get the canon EF mount, then put a EF to FE tilt/shift adapter in between? Then we’d have tilt, and shift in both directions.

[@chirsd666]

Thanks Dustin, another great review of an interesting lens. Based on a number of recommendations, including yours, I picked up the Laowa 12mm with magic shift converter, which together provides a 17mm FOV, so Laowa really has 3 shift lenses now - 15mm, 17mm, 20mm. I would like to see you include the 12mm + MSC in the (hopefully) upcoming comparison. Message me if you need to borrow one (I can loan you mine). An important tip for panoramic shots with shift lenses is to use the available tripod foot, which keeps the lens stationary and shifts the camera. These will completely eliminate parallax stitching issues, especially if there are near foreground elements.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

If Laowa sends me the 15mm to do a comparison, I may just take you up on that. I do have some chart tests from that combo previously, but it would be good to do some live side-by-side tests.

[@colbybundy6082]

Nice, I thought of the MSC too, I wonder what the 20F4 would look like if the EF mount version was put on it. Double shift? Or unuseable?

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

I would think you would introduce mechanical vignette. The mount opening is only so big.

[@wandererstraining]

@@colbybundy6082 I bet you'd get an awesome 28mm f/5.6 shift lens! Not sure how far you'd be able to shift it and how good the IQ would be, tho. Would be an interesting experiment for sure!

[@Bayonet1809]

Perhaps just getting the EF mount version is the best choice, as it can then be adapted to every mirrorless mount with widely accessible adapters.

[@josephasghar]

I hadn’t though of that. I purchased wisely, in spite of myself!

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

That's not a bad approach, but only if you think you might use it on multiple systems. Otherwise it is more convenient to get it in the actual mount you are using.

[@josephasghar]

@@DustinAbbottTWI I went from Canon to a Sony, to LUMIX, back to Canon. Same lenses all the way. I can’t imagine the inconvenience and cost it would otherwise have been.

[@gregsullivan7408]

You say that the keystoning can be corrected "even if you are looking up". That's incorrect - the camera's sensor has to be parallel to the surfaces of interest, so for vertical walls, the camera must be vertical.

[@twbrkfd1733]

As of 12/2/2022, there are newer versions of Laowa shift lenses that do not have than 20mm "extension". Some sellers are still selling this older model. For example the VE1540SFE is similar to this model which has about 20mm of "extension", its new model is VEN1540SFE which does NOT have the extension. The Laowa website does not show any of these older models. however, they are still being sold as the ONLY version of the model; no doubt to rid themselves of old inventory!

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

I assume you're talking about mirrorless mounts that come without the extension?

[@MacM545]

Great channel which I discovered. Frequent videos on your channel, I can more easily find what's most interesting and relevant for my camera-relevant interest.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

Welcome aboard!

[@alanm.4298]

I think it's important to note one difference between the Laowa lenses and the Canon TS-E or Nikon PC lenses... The Laowa has one movement: shift. The Canon and Nikon lenses have two movements: shift and tilt. Your video demonstrates well the uses of the shift movement, but for obvious reasons doesn't touch on what can be done with tilt. Primarily tilt gives you additional control over the plane of focus. That can be used to help keep important aspects of an image in focus. Or it can be used in the opposite manner, to deliberately throw features out of focus. Due to their naturally greater depth of field and reduced background blur, the tilt movement may be less important on very wide lenses like 15 and 20mm, than it is on 45 or 50mm and longer focal lengths. An example where I've used tilt is a tabletop product shot where the item being photographed isn't arranged parallel to the plane of the image sensor, but the entire object needs to be kept in sharp focus. There also can be situations where tilt and shift are both used, such as when the object isn't parallel with the image sensor plane and you also need to control or dodge a reflection. This isn't a knock against the Laowa lenses in any way. They're brilliant for what they can do and might be all that's needed for a lot of work.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

This is entirely true, Alan, though obviously my videos on these shift lenses are focused more on what they are than what they aren't.

[@twbrkfd1733]

Most newer cameras have in-camera focus bracketing for post processing, Canon, Nikon, but NOT Sony, with focus stacking software. A few cameras even do the focus stacking, but I'd rather leave the stacking part in the hands of imaging software developers than camera makers.

[@michailxyntarakis1590]

Great Dustin! It seems to me that the Laowa is sharper than the Canon TSE 24mm. When you tested corner performance did you shift the lens? If so then the Laowa is definitely sharper. When I first got the Canon I was stunned how soft it was compared to my Sigma 28mm 1.4 and Loxia 25mm. So much so that I rented another copy to verify that I didn't get a bad lens. I believe the Canon is almost 10 years old and its corners are not comparable to modern day lenses. But until know there wasn't much of an alternative. Excellent review as always.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

My chart tests are not shown shifted in the review, but I did test with the lens shifted, and I didn't really see a difference in the corners from either my chart tests or real world images.

[@Tedwill-home]

Great example with the pano shot losing information when combined. I'm curious if this lens would work well for landscape photographers. I typically use the 24-90 for panos keeping the angle as straight as possible, knowing I'll lose about 30% of the data when combining the photos in Lightroom. I realize this lens is made for architects and builders, but am I wrong to this lens would made a great landscape lens?

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

I definitely think it would, particularly for those who utilize panoramas as a part of their process.

[@openeye126]

Hi there Dustin , so what is the differences between the Blue Ring Version and the Red Ring version of this lens ????

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

I don't know the answer to that.

[@AdvayMengle]

@@DustinAbbottTWI Blue has 5 aperture blades, red has 14.

[@inwardlens]

Thanks for the review, I was eagerly waiting for a lens like this from Laowa. Dustin, do you have any plans to do a comparison on how it performs in the real world vs the Canon 24mm ts-e ii? I am very family with that lens and rent it often, but don't quite need it often enough to want to buy. . . this lens is effectively half the price of the Canon and if it gets close enough to its excellent performance it would be a much easier price to justify.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

Hi Fernando. I don't have any current plans as I'm not sure I have access to the Canon anywhere right now.

[@mjl1958]

What is image quality in the corners like when shifted?

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

They really don't look much different than when not shifted. That's from both my chart tests and real world results. Good question

[@woodysranch2690]

Dustin, something is off with the audio for this video. It seems muffled and harder to understand. You may want to investigate if you made any changes

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

That's odd, as my levels in this are at the exact same level they always are, which is pretty much optimal. I run all audio through an editor, tweak the signal curve, and make sure that it falls inside normal without clipping. When I playback this video it sounds perfect.

[@dougsmit1]

You emphasized heavily using the lens for panoramas but a shift lens also once was used for single frame architecture keeping buildings 'straight'. Considering current software controls that allow such straightening, is there any reason to spend this much money for a shift lens other than using it for panoramas? Large sensors and lenses with better corners used with AI image improvement might make expensive mechanical answers to the problem less important today. Is there really a reason for this lens other than panoramas?

[@Bayonet1809]

Exactly, when correcting perspective distortion in software some resolution is lost, but this lens is not the sharpest to begin with, so just loses the resolution at a different stage of the image making process. Shift lenses only make sense if they are as sharp as regular lenses.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

Hi Doug, that's actually the first thing I discussed in the review (correcting for keystoning). It's very valuable particularly for interiors, where often it is difficult to achieve the same result in software.

[@alanm.4298]

Software correction is only able to do so much and you lose some image quality in the process. While it's possible to do both... shift the lens to some extent and then do further correction in post-processing.... for the best results do as much as possible with the lens.

[@yipkk]

Could be interesting if someone attaches this lens to a m-mount AF adapter and you will get an AF shift lens

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

I've never tested something like that, so I don't really know how well it could/would work.

[@karlnotyourbusiness4429]

The 15mm now has a 14-blade version BTW

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

Interesting

[@twbrkfd1733]

And does NOT have the "extension".

[@twbrkfd1733]

The 14-blade aperture comes from laowa's 15mm wide angle macro lens.

[@jafarkhan1982]

😍

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

You're very happy about this one ;)

[@BearInDespair]

Lens look design seems like Canon EF.

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

Agreed. You basically have to start with the DSLR baseline design if you're going to sell it in both types of mount

[@billzidis2656]

Every time i play some of your videos i scare my wife :D. There is something going on with your volume control,are you actually using something to measure it? Some videos are normal,some others are very loud. The lens now...Yes,i'm a massive fan of Laowa as a company,i do own 3 of their lenses (10-18,12mm and 15mm shift). I'm not very impressed with this one. It doesn't seem like a good deal

[@DustinAbbottTWI]

That's odd, as my levels in this are at the exact same level they always are, which is pretty much optimal. I run all audio through an editor, tweak the signal curve, and make sure that it falls inside normal without clipping.