Vegan Gains Debates Destiny Into Using The Nazi Label...

[@kingz7151]

Can't wait to see them talk again in 2 years.

[@randybobandy9828]

Why? Vegan gains is an insufferable dbag.

[@Clydegraves]

Same….. :(

[@timmiller516]

Love this comment

[@zilch2653]

LOL

[@dead_speedrunner]

I was hoping vegan gains came back stronger after the poor performance in their last debate but this was NOT the topic to go in on imo

[@YeedaQiu]

Vegan Gains is legit the definition of a "filler villian"

[@ryanmahaffey5891]

Hilarious, thanks for the laugh.

[@nathancasey7712]

Lmao

[@brandonsobremisana6681]

An unfair narrative that u formed to draw attention away from the fact that destiny is a female name

[@auto1nfanticid3]

"If the villain gets a cameo or Flashback appearance afterward, they're probably not an example of this trope, as a Filler Villain, by and large, is a One-Shot Character." this is a quote from tv tropes. also, you misspelled villain.

[@ab-hx8qe]

@@brandonsobremisana6681 gtfo with that shit, that’s some main arc story development. That b like goku unlocking super saiyan agains a siba-man.

[@Clos_Goldstienburg-III]

I know it’s a hot take but 6 million people during the WW2 would easily sit down together and agree that Destiny is in fact a girls name.

[@Rego-xn7kn]

You bitch, you got me lmao

[@seabar6902]

God tier comment

[@christofferthorsen3821]

Or 1.5 mil, tops! 😎

[@stevemagic5358]

Bars 😂

[@BenjaminBadbrother]

I had no idea where that was going, and great comment.

[@Big-Papa-Smurf]

It's amazing how VG's debate style hasn't changed at all within the 5 years that I've been aware of his existence.

[@justinpurcell3717]

I know, I ran into him like 6-8 years ago (idk) through fitness videos and he was a scumbag then and he's still a scumbag today. Anybody who video tapes a dying family member just to push a rhetoric (veganism) is a sociopath and probably doesn't deserve to live amongst humans.

[@Gopherzooka]

Ive known about him for over 10, has never changed.

[@TeaNoSugar87]

World Champion Shadowboxer

[@paul_de_groote275]

i mean to be fair destiny argued his point terribly.

[@Gopherzooka]

@@paul_de_groote275 yeah, but Vegan gains is so bad it made destiny look good. actually this debate is a pretty good example of what destiny is talking about when he says throwing labels around in debates is counterproductive

[@Shlumpledink]

Dude is an infinity debater. He is willing to go around in the same circles and say the same shit repeatedly no matter what is said to him in response

[@ryanthompson3446]

He is Uber annoying and his world view generated by an algorithm.

[@thepubquiz3198]

I think his problem is, is that he needs to eat some meat.

[@kayak1984]

Ya when someone dodges and doesn't answer simple questions that becomes necessary.

[@ryanthompson3446]

@@kayak1984 it's not dodging, he is not giving the answer vg wants, and does not hate people because of basic labels like vg does. Very simple.

[@kayak1984]

@@ryanthompson3446 nope wrong, want to try again? Or are you going to keep coping 🤔 🙂.

[@connorfinnerty1366]

I love that less than 24 hours after this debate, Fuentes went on one of the most explicit conspiratorial antisemitic, palligenetic ultranationalist rants of his entire career

[@GBGB000]

What should I search to find this rant?

[@randybobandy9828]

Learn how to spell.

[@andrewcox5873]

@@randybobandy9828 bro the only word he misspelled was “Palingenetic” which 99% of the population doesn’t even know the definition of, much less the spelling. You’re really having to reach if that’s all you can find to criticize

[@fixitfelix718]

@@andrewcox5873 no he also misspelled "fuentes" its supposed to be"nazi"

[@fixitfelix718]

Also nick is wondering why hes not a nazi in destiny eyes so he decided to go hard...

[@limitedhangoutlive]

Imagine having to defend Nick Fuentes because people are literally too stupid to understand simple concepts regarding deradicalization and meeting people at their actual ideas so they can’t obfuscate. Keep it up, Destiny. Anyone with a brain understands what you’re saying.

[@drdaddydarkie164]

No but holy shit for real. This entire conversation VG could not actually engage meaningfully with anything being said because he had his own investment on how he wanted the conversation to go

[@PandaWarriorTT]

Hold on. Is destiny deradicalizing me?!?!? I thought I was being entertained!!?!

[@Gopherzooka]

I heard destiny's fans are radicilizing him so im here to do that.

[@xp7575]

As a descendent of Holocaust survivors it def bothers me that he won't fully acknowledge that groypers are nazis but I do appreciate all of the work Destiny puts in debating against Nick and his ideas, Destiny does far more for the Left by attacking right wing ideas directly in front of right wing audiences than people like Vaush does by hiding in the hug box fortress of their own echo chambers refusing to debate them

[@gonzo7758]

i hope you realize that destiny has mentioned, on several instances, that he has no plan to deradicalize nick, he is aware nick's position isn't grounded in reality, and he knows he's too invested to start batting for another team, destiny just has nick on because that brings him the views.

[@deathvalleydruids892]

Destiny has been handling this controversy really well. Three points: 1) The term "Nazi" is based upon the historical movement founded and led by Hitler. Any effort to formulate a rigid definition of this term must be judged on the basis of the historical record. The "What if Hitler didn't believe x" hypothetical is entirely detached from this criterion, and so it's a misleading waste of time. 2) The term "neo-Nazi" is a more appropriate label than "Nazi" to identify someone who holds the views VG and others ascribe to Fuentes. In most cases, this isn't an important distinction. In this context, though, it shows how those who suppose they're using a word correctly can inadvertently contribute to its etymological corruption. 3) The etymological corruption of the word "Nazi" was inevitable. This is true of every political label that lends itself to repeated misuse by those who wish to invoke a negative connotation. If I understand him right, this is why Destiny avoids using the word in reference to Fuentes. It's become too easy to ignore those who throw the label around, and this is why Destiny is in a better position to influence Fuentes's audience than the likes of Vegan Gains. The moment he starts calling Fuentes a "Nazi" will be the same moment countless young groypers tune him out.

[@lukeinvictus]

Exactly that first Hitler point that VG made was so fucking weird. Its like "do you consider yourself a stalinist?" "no", "well what if Stalin was different would you be a stalinist then?" It's such a meaningless hypothetical.

[@synchronium24]

"The term "neo-Nazi" is a more appropriate label than "Nazi" to identify someone who holds the views VG and others ascribe to Fuentes." This is splitting hairs so fine that even our most sensitive scientific instruments can no longer detect them.

[@toby9364]

Tru

[@Syberz2]

This is the problem with being a debate bro. If you insist on grounding each individual word down to a definition, you can then do anything you want with the definitions you're ascribing to fit the arguments you're trying to make. Destiny is clearly wants to appeal to Nick's audience, but not at the cost of making them evaluate their ideologies that make them groypers. He's going to cater to them regardless which is why all the Left people are freaking out.

[@narutolikestoes9028]

HOLY 🤓

[@purplefyrus5370]

Destiny? The Videogame? Why would they name a videogame after a girl’s name?

[@greasedlightning4344]

do you know anyone with that as their real name?

[@cptweed3717]

@@greasedlightning4344 i knew a girl named tyranny.

[@FirstLast-dh8ks]

@@cptweed3717 Tyranny? oof how she doing? these names connote some bad upbringing.

[@azurezerox8392]

@@greasedlightning4344 have you never met somebody with the name destiny? I have met two that I can recall off hand. Probably more that I'm not thinking about. But none of them were men.

[@couldyou4745]

Well you tried at least..

[@tumtoes]

His arm was in the same spot for so long 💀

[@ubuu7]

[theory] vegan gains are so hard to achieve, you need hours long yoga poses 23 hours a day to not shrivel into a raison

[@TheMijoAaron]

@@ubuu7 it’s just the same joke every time

[@tumtoes]

@@ubuu7 I omegalul'd

[@AndrewNajash]

The problem is Destiny is so soy that this vegan dude could eat him without breaking his diet

[@tunnelman5756]

LMFAO

[@Kain1805]

Destiny is the soy one here? VG is crying for an hour about a topic that is so irrelevant except for woke snowflakes, repeating the same argument over and over in a voice that is close to a bat's frequency, it's hilariously obvious he's so mad and tries to tickle any approval out of him while Destiny is cockblocking him with "Yeah maybe but who cares lulz", really funny

[@rafiqjennings5262]

But Vegan Gains eats way more soy than Destiny and Destiny eats meat. The so soy person is Vegan Gains.

[@famitsus987]

T.vegan on his fake account

[@WarningBFG-isHiring]

@@famitsus987 what?

[@stbsole]

I feel like VG is trying to debate a point that misses the whole point of what Destiny is trying to do with Nick and other Right wingers. If you become obsessed with labeling people or categorizing them, you basically give the other person an out on their beliefs because they will just pick apart the given label and you effectively lose the crowd. I think I gain more from Destiny asking Nick to elaborate on his antisemetic beliefs to out him over just saying “you’re a Nazi so I know everything you believe in” when in fact that’s the furthest things from the truth. If VG or MrGirl want to use that label if they debate Nick, Destiny won’t argue with them but it just gives Nick a platform to refute that label and make him look better.

[@jovonn8303]

"your a Nazi so I know everything.." who said this??? Like if you want to argue argue against what mr girl and vg said don't strawman them.

[@MrBakedBagel]

@@jovonn8303 By calling people nazi's without evidence of such (no clips from 2 years ago, is simply not on the same level as engagement that Destiny is recieving right now) does count as "i know everything" If you LEGITIMATELY think there are LEGIT Nazi's running around, BOY is your mind fucking WARPED. Because you have 0 idea of what a Nazi actually is.

[@noahthenormal]

@@jovonn8303 OP gave you the correct version of your/you're, and you still got it wrong lol?

[@avenger1915]

Do you have a timestamp? I don't recall Mr Girl or VG saying “you’re a Nazi so I know everything you believe in”. The video link would be helpful as well! It was under my impression that this was neither Mr Girl's or VG's position.

[@Xakanis]

He's not missing the point, because in his view, labelling people good or bad is the entire point. For vegan gains and his people, countering the actual arguments these bad people have is less effective than just getting people to deplatform/cancel them in their eyes. For them debate is just basically a way to farm clips that you can send to youtube moderation or twitter to have them removed from the platform.

[@willschreck88]

Mao Zedong literally killed all the birds because he thought it was bad for crops, and then insects ate all the crops because there were no birds. He also wanted loads of metal, so he also told all farmers to turn in their metal tools for the good of the country. And then there were extreme famines because the farmers couldn't plant or harvest crops without their tools.

[@shuggoth8793]

Mustache man bad. Leap guy good. SORE-y

[@anguishedcarpet]

In retrospect Mao was particularly retarded for someone who killed so many

[@Pheonixess]

its funny he brought up Mao when destiny asked specifically whats the smartest Fascist leader. Mao unarguably did more damage to his people than any of the fascists Destiny listed lmao

[@randybobandy9828]

So he was re-tarded... Got it

[@donniedewitt9878]

And don’t forget his explicit mass murders

[@Karachsingstrue]

God imagine spending so much energy to call someone something that is just so slightly worse than what he actually is. The passion wasted on this. So fucking funny.

[@ntpbenny5714]

But yet you’re wasting your time watching something you call pointless? Doesn’t that make your time valueless

[@Mermayydman]

@@ntpbenny5714 not if you refute the point that wasted everyone's time. That's literally how a silly point has to be refuted. Someone has to waste time listening to it.

[@ntpbenny5714]

@@Mermayydman fair point

[@andrewcox5873]

@@ntpbenny5714 Not if you’re listening on your drive home from work

[@Topher.86]

Well they have to. The left has to have their labels.

[@thunderwatch8463]

Okay, seriously, this is exhausting already. Why the fuck do these people care so much that Destiny won't call Nick a Nazi? He criticizes Nicks ideas all the time--isn't that enough?

[@russelld2925]

No. It’s not enough for them. Labels are so much more important to them then actual detailed discussions of beliefs and ideas. If they don’t have labels to hurl at the ‘bad’ people then how will they signal their virtue? They might actually have to become good people then.

[@Doeexist]

@@russelld2925 and if he admits he’s a Nazi then people can say without context. DEsTiNy TaLkS To NaZiS

[@MrFelixify]

They need to fit him in a box, if they don't it drives them crazy

[@smokydave]

TBC, when Hitler was elected to office in 1932, he was LESS anti-Semitic than Nick Fuentes. At that time he was working towards the Havara agreement which most German Jewish leaders signed on for, and there was NO POINT between 1932 and the end of WW2 where the nazis agreed to mass genocide. What made this possible was that in 1933, through a series of possible 'false flags' (that people believed cause anti-facistas were bombing shit) he was able to dissolve the democracy and become a dictator. This is why anyone, left, right, center, or whatever, who is advocating for ending democracy is, for me, the real danger. As long as there are protected political groups who can call out the other party(s) there are checks. Democracy is flawed, but the alternative is horrific.

[@justanothernick3984]

@Lukas Massey He should come ask you. He literally said in the last sentence a summation of what you are asking. You just got demoted to the average voter.

[@at5203]

​@Lukas Massey "Bro, why let the people vote when we can just appoint the bestest politician everytime, all the time! No one thought of this, I must be a genius"

[@Antwon_The_Damaja]

Bruh, Hitler wrote Mein Kampf in like 1925. He was not less anti-Semitic than Nick, just more pragmatic about his beliefs.

[@smokydave]

@@Antwon_The_Damaja have you read mein kampf? Could you give me a quote from mein kampf that doesn't fit with Nick's current ideology?

[@Antwon_The_Damaja]

@@smokydave Bruh moment

[@100timezcooler]

frustrating to hear destiny say the cookie analogy is "just a joke" when presented with the context of nick being pretty honestly anti-semitic.

[@Gopherzooka]

his point is if you are going to peg someone as an antisemite you need something more solid than something told as a joke, because the person accused have an easy out. Destiny prefers to have someone pegged on a beleif so such dodges can't be used. I do think he is being overly evasive on this topic, but at least on that i get his logic.

[@nunnie768]

@@Gopherzooka That would be fine but I vaguely remember him making very definitive opinions on: Vaush, hasan, keffels, mike from PA etc.. on much less information, no?

[@googley98]

@@Gopherzooka He's pegged people for far less before.

[@Gopherzooka]

@@nunnie768 no.

[@nunnie768]

@@Gopherzooka Did he not call mike from PA a tankie? I pretty sure he looked at his entire esthetic and presence online to come to that conclusion

[@MrSemanticprison]

This is getting pretty weaselly. We don't use these standards with anyone else or any other label. Destiny doesn't pretend he can't possibly know what anyone else believes or at least have a reasonable assumption. We don't have to read tea leaves or search for OK signs to know Fuentes beliefs. We wouldn't hesitate to label someone "conservative" or "far right" based on reasonable assumptions of their beliefs based on their statements, and those labels are both normative and indistinct but still cohesive.

[@catmanmanson799]

Exactly. I knew it was fucked when destiny wouldn't admit that holocaust revisionism wasn't technically a Jewish conspiracy, just absurd

[@HauntedHarmonics]

Yeah, I was mostly on board w/ Destiny‘s take before this, tho MrGirl at least made me seriously consider & empathize with the opposing perspective. But Vegan Gains basically won me over in the first 10 mins here. Kind of feels like splitting hairs when you’re arguing that a fascist who’s antisemitic & genocidal isn’t a Nazi. Or that holocaust denial wouldn’t be considered “conspiratorial”. I understand wanting to be precise in your language, but at that point you’ve probably gone too far in the opposite direction _EDIT:_ Aight VG gets super cringe & dishonest at the end

[@net28573]

He's trying to convert people in communities that he will lose access to if he sticks to the short term game of name calling. He's thinking long-term. No one else gives a damn about what these people have to say. They're immediately dismissed and attacked so they dig a hole and further entrench themselves in their own messed up beliefs. Destiny is doing the hard work no one else is doing by opening a door back to rational discussion for them when everyone else slams it shut.

[@catmanmanson799]

@@net28573 This is a naive child's way of thinking. These people have a more complicated political agenda beyond "have good conversations", they are intentionally using these people that are willing to run cover for them, whether they mean to do it or not, to spread their personable and affable personalities to snatch up anyone who thinks they might find a more agreeable community than where they are. These chucklefucks like sneako and destiny are being used and they refuse to acknowledge it.

[@goaheadmr.jostar4490]

I agree with the idea that he doesn’t always provide the same charity to other people. Sometimes he tries and will usually say something like “I can’t know what’s in your/their head” but it’s really problematic bc he will give a clear opinion about what he thinks they are and he has done the same with Nick but rather than just saying “yah he might be or that he thinks he is a nazi. It’s annoying mainly bc he has said it before but alway keeps going through all the defensive points every time Nick comes up.

[@aeiouaeiou100]

Destiny should start using neonazi instead of nazi as a definition. Neonazi is well defined in Germany.

[@raidermaxx2324]

its all well defined in the US. And its "Neo Nazi" .. two words

[@JayJayMehdi]

And what is that definition?

[@uranumbnuts]

For a guy that used to "joke" about killing people for eating meat, he sure can't understand an "edgy joke" when someone else makes it... VG's level of debate is "But i said the magic words.... why aren't you agreeing with me...?"

[@Smuggler1234]

I think by avoiding the Nazi question Nick is allowed to pass himself off as a run of the mill Conservative. Destiny isn’t just “engaging with the ideas”. He’s engaging with the ideas Nick wants him to engage with and ignoring the stuff Nick wants him to ignore. It allows Nick to have a large audience. From that large audience there will inevitably (just based on statistics) some that are radicalized. Nick is a radical so getting more radicals is better for his movement. Whereas Nick doesn’t care about losing a few normies to destiny’s side that never would have followed through with the ideology anyway.

[@aa-qx1cg]

Nick has an audience because people agree with him.

[@gumballwatterson3231]

@@aa-qx1cg that's the case with almost every political audience; the issue is when someone like Nick is provided access to a substantially larger audience through someone like Destiny, he will be able to reach people who wouldn't have otherwise known who he is. Also, it's not like the people who agree with him did so immediately after hearing his thoughts, it's probably the case that he had basic points that most people (probably mostly conservatives) are able to agree with, then he slowly begins to lead them down further into his more extreme positions.

[@aa-qx1cg]

@@gumballwatterson3231 Shouldn't the best ideas rise to the top? Why is your primary motivation shielding people from hearing ideas? This is why Destiny said "If Nazis are right I'd want my whole audience to go to Nick and become Nazis."

[@MrJpc1234]

You have identified the problem that Destiny has also identified the same problem except your solution won't work because the Nazi label has now been overused that it doesn't work to identify him as a radical....indeed calling him a nazi makes him seems MORE like a normal Conservative because that's what normal conservatives have been called....however if Destiny engages him on his actual policy position such as Race realism or interracial marriage he is going to be able to more effectively check him from any subterfuge

[@herzeleid9525]

The point of being a “Holocaust revisionist” isn’t because you’re trying to get a better understanding of the Holocaust. Revisionists want to start “asking questions” so that they can undermine the idea that it actually happened in the first place.

[@boogie8586]

Vegan gains is a name I haven't thought or heard of in a long time tbh

[@randybobandy9828]

Because he's a terrible person and boring.

[@moonie1825]

@Ryan still is

[@yoboiboy4182]

@Ryan lol

[@Shellybelly778]

Destiny just watched Nick talking to Sneako about his antisemtic conspiracy theories, and he wasn't joking. So Destiny saying he does know if Nick believes these things now is not true.

[@famitsus987]

Cope

[@honorablegigachad6946]

This comment is bad faith beyond believe. Does Nick Fuentes advocate for genocide? Does Nick Fuentes believe that Germanic tribes are superior to French and Slavs? Does Nick Fuentes want a lebensraum for those Germanic peoples?

[@donkoltz1]

Honest question: Could you link to the video? I have never seen Nick speak without 'joking' (or more accurately being facetious, sarcastic, or chevalier). Thanks in advance.

[@VIEWITIS]

@@donkoltz1 Fuentes loves speaking like low tier French nobility.

[@Randompersondoesntmatter]

Dude it's more complicated than that lol. Destiny just too smart for you guys xD

[@c001pers0n]

The Yearly Vegan Gains debate

[@rep-vile]

I totally agree that using labels when debating is kinda useless or even detrimental, but it's annoying how Steven reverts to "I can't know what's in his brain", even though Steven knows this doesn't matter. We can only know what is physically available. At the end of the day, what you put out with your own hands is on you, you can't tell people to mind read you. So if Nick obfuscates what he puts out from what he actually believes, then he can only blame himself. We don't have to soy hand-hold him, and keep telling him clarify clarify clarify, he said what he said. If he's supposedly so bad at communicating after years and years of publicly speaking making videos and streaming, at some point it's on him.

[@yami2227]

Well, the reason Steven keeps going to "I can't know what's in his brain" is because people are stupid and can't accept the simple fact that Steven wants to debate ideas and not just throw around labels because that literally doesn't do anything. If you hear Nick's ideas and viewpoints I think everyone can form their own opinion without Steven having to throw a label around.

[@know3459]

@@yami2227 is it really just about the label or getting Steven to acknowledge that Nick is pushing the same dangerous rhetoric that lead to the holocaust? Denying even the severity of the holocaust is so far down the antisemitic rabbit hole that it's literally illegal to say in Germany. Waving away all the problematic things Nick says as "jokes" seems uncharacteristically charitable at best.

[@yami2227]

@@know3459 yea, I'd say the "joke" part is problematic in characterising it as such even if you believe it so. I personally think he is saying those things in a joking manner while believing a majority of it.

[@MrPerfume1979]

@@yami2227 and yet everyone keeps taking the worst possible interpretation, simply verify their preconceived notions. People like vegan gains that happen to think he knows which he couldn’t, calling Nicks followers dumb is ironic. I look forward to this space becoming more mature and being more charitable in what exactly is being said.

[@know3459]

@@yami2227 try to get Steven even to admit that much. He'll just say "oh I can't look inside his brain and we haven't talked about it". I see it as him being so committed to his "right wingers make good friends and won't cancel me"-arc that he's refusing to honestly engage with the problems that come with their beliefs.

[@Keviamaya]

Come on... Destiny comparing Nick's holocaust denying speech to an okay sign is pretty disingenuous. Those two don't compare at all and that's just him trying to diminish what he said. Dude he is holocaust revisionist, accept that and move on. Also Destiny kept saying that he hasn't gotten around to talking about it with him. Just ask him privately or debate him. This could be solved with a two message conversation lol.

[@itsreallydna]

Exactly what I thought when I saw that. It really seemed like destiny was pushing the context argument bc he didn't want to yeild to the fact that nicks behavior is definitely conspiratorial, after he had previously established that nick already fufills 2 of his 3 pillars. Maybe a cognitive dissonance?

[@Alex_Johnson_]

"Dude he is holocaust revisionist, accept that and move on." He literally says, multiple times in this debate, that he's pretty sure Fuentes is a Holocaust Revisionist.

[@xeedflarian9748]

@@Alex_Johnson_ they don't care it's 100% or nothing with these types.

[@Keviamaya]

@@Alex_Johnson_ He keeps walking back from that position. He never say he is, "he might be" is as far as he willing to take it.

[@bleederboss]

@@xeedflarian9748 dude 1 destiny definition is 100 or nothing 2 you say that but you are una le to take 15% you cant cope this much. Soubding like a vaush fan

[@doodledee3348]

While I don't think Destiny is spite driven in general, I think the fact that he's willing to give this much good faith to Nick and try and hold onto a friendship of sorts with him is definitely... Odd. Edit: Also, if anyone remembers Andy Warski, this kind of behavior is something Destiny called out Andy for. Being super chummy with far right people and viciously attacking people on the left over the most minor of infractions because the right "treat them well." I don't even care whether Nick is a Nazi or not. He's a terrible human being who shouldn't be given the time of day, not someone who should be cradled and go out for a bite with.

[@yami2227]

There are odd people out there, Steven said multiple times that he'd rather interact with someone abusive than someone normal because that is what is fun for him. If Nick is bad even more reason for Steven to stay around him because he likes being challenged and this also works in his favour because he might be able to chip away at some of his fan base even if he won't outright convert Nick, who I don't think he ever will haha.

[@KiuHayakari]

its funny to me how this entire thing can be solved with destiny calling nick and asking "hey are you?...". Instead he would rather waste his time debating others about labels or whatever. bruh.

[@Cosimate]

Much easier to vilify, denigrate, and persecute an individual the further away you are from having to get your hands dirty. Interesting is the type of folk that wouldn't even piss on you if you were set ablaze.

[@herzeleid9525]

He said Hitler was smart. He assumes that because you can use brute force & demagoguery to occupy most of Europe that means you’re intelligent. It doesn’t take a smart man to f*** the World. That’s precisely why Hitler was so dangerous. He was out of his mind. That’s why nobody expected him to do what he did. Because it was nuts.

[@yami2227]

@@herzeleid9525 being psychotic or deranged has nothing to do with how smart you are. If you listen to his speaches he at least has high emotional intelligence, albeit using it for bad, because he convinces millions to follow him.

[@vukasinjosic9719]

destiny is weird about this issue: he uses administrative-bureaucratic language to defend nick, and asks for firm evidence, but then mixes that with ''i don't really care''. it's just awkward

[@jellyfishbrained]

Right, it seems like he's just debating to create a hedge to protect his public-image, but as he says, he doesn't actually care (about the premise of the debate). Think about like this, by defending the reputations of those he associates with, he's trying to minimize the downstream potential for others to attack him. Any character assassinations on Destiny and his peers will impact his "political project." He's trying to cultivate plausible and pragmatic narratives, rather than win internet debates. We're in the PRstiny Arc. It's clever and tracks with his recent rhetoric about appealing to people's senses of narrative and subjective interpretations.

[@vukasinjosic9719]

@@jellyfishbrained but it's a mess. it comes off as inconsistent, bad-faith and apologetic of a nazi (nick). is it worth it? i don't know. i don't like the ''PRstiny'' arc or whatever it is

[@jellyfishbrained]

Using flexible narratives with consistent frameworks is a genius strategy. This is what has been so effective about Trump and QAnon. Once people have bought in to a premise of a narrative, it's easier to convince them of all other sorts of things, they're beliefs will then be steadfast and they'll exhibit intellectual resiliency because the validity of the narrative's premise is also their entire interpretive & logical basis. It's difficult to persuade others with disparate facts and theories but a narrative is much more digestible, if well-crafted. Look at Sneako, the basis of his worldview is a specific narrative, so whenever he's confronted with something that causes contradicts it, he can just shrug it off because his heuristics are narratively ordained and self-validating.

[@vukasinjosic9719]

@@jellyfishbrained interesting and very highly ornamental way of saying ''he's just being obtuse''

[@herzeleid9525]

He’s not actually engaging with what VG has to say. He’s playing cover for himself because he knows his critics are right. You can like Destiny as he’s very good at what he does, but sometimes he’s just going to argue because he will never concede an argument.

[@rockstar-made]

I've never listened Destiny weasel this much in a debate, it's very bizarre

[@couldyou4745]

Lmao you just say that because you want so bad to use the term nazi to describe people that you don't like. Its so funny to see people like you moan when someone you follow doesn't accept your ridiculous expectations. Leftists wanting to say nazi so bad is a lot like goofy white people who want to use the N word. Why are you obsessed with this word? Why can't you just accept that nick is a racist anti semite? Why are you so fixated on the N word? Does it really make you feel so good to say the N word? Maybe grow up?

[@Dramahayes]

I wouldn’t necessarily say that he was weaseling a lot in this but that he was being broad and not concrete with his answers. As in he often says probably or likely when most people would say yes or certainly. I’m sure if vegan gains asked Destiny if Nick would fall in line with what most people would consider a nazi he would say yes. I personally think nick would fall into the nazi category based off modern times and how people function today. But that’s not what Destiny is talking about. And when he’s on this topic he usually wants to be using the term nazi only when appropriate because it can turn peoples brains off because of how oversaturated and divisive the word is especially when dealing with those communities. This isn’t weaselly but more like considerate I guess. I do dislike how he doesn’t just state his opinion and is a bit open ended his answers are sometimes. But he uses “probably” all the time in instances where it should almost always be a yes or no answer. So it’s not like he’s doing this just for nick

[@dillonblair6491]

@@couldyou4745 No, lmao this is so stupid. its because he's being bad faith and weaseling 😂 and it's not an obsession, it's just annoying to see people denying the obvious reality of the situation with a standard that would never apply anywhere else. Destiny explicitly applies labels to people such as Miyo who he explicitly called a white nationalist specifically because his ideas aligned with white nationalism, and he's applied the labels of extremist, coward, socialist, to vaush whenever his ideas and behaviors aligned with that. so to have him take the sudden position of "I don't use labels, I use ideas!" Is obvious cope for someone who was his friend at the time. And he was being obviously bad faith and weaseling. Like when he said "if nick said he did believe the holocaust was real, you'd say you didn't believe him" and when vegan gains said that he would believe him, then destiny Says "lol that's all it takes? I'm not gonna engage with politics that way by just taking his statements." So if VG doesn't believe nick he's in the wrong, but if he does, he's still in the wrong??? (Also destiny flat out lied there, because he literally says In this video that the reason he doesn't call him a white nationalist is because nick doesn't claim to be one so he doesn't contend with it. So he does simply use nicks statements to assess his ideology) Also when VG said the cookie analogy wasn't a joke, it's obvious that he means the thing Nick is making an analogy for because nick obvious believes that but doesn't want a clip out of him explicitly saying that he doesn't think the holocaust was real.

[@josevonbuergenwader2]

@@DramahayesBeing broad and not concrete with your answers especially when you are generally known to not do that is the definition of being a weasel. Even Destiny himself applies this definition regular to people.

[@EpsteinYouTubeemployees]

Just turn on any debate he does.

[@robertterrell7057]

This whole arc is the biggest optics lost for no reason ever. Like God dam. Why haven't you asked him questions to clarify if he is a nazi or not?!?!? You ate chicken and waffles the guy.

[@randybobandy9828]

What question? He has asked if he's a nazi

[@robertterrell7057]

@@randybobandy9828 He should ask the question that he has for his definition as a Nazi. Like that's the first fucking thing he should have confirmed. "Does nick hit my definition for being a nazi" then ask

[@andrewcox5873]

@@robertterrell7057 and if Nick says “no I don’t support genocide” do you think the internet will let it go since he’s not a nazi?

[@teargass1849]

He has, he is litertally not a Nazi, he is a Fascist, he considers himself a Christain Nationalist, which to me is about on the same moral level as the Nazi's, but they are just not the same group, the Italians in WW2 where also Fascists and not Nazi's, Nazi is a specific type of fascism, most people dont seem to understand that.

[@moonie1825]

@@teargass1849 then he would be more similar to neo nazis

[@takeshii]

I havent seen vegain gains in forever and god damn he got some gains goin.

[@randybobandy9828]

Maybe in his face 🤣 he looks bloated and fat.

[@justinpurcell3717]

He got some fat going, he's still weak just like he was 5+ years ago.

[@Jolron14]

@@justinpurcell3717 Cope

[@justinpurcell3717]

@@Jolron14 What is there to cope about? I was just stating a fact you nonlifting pimple farming teenager

[@TheRealSamPreece]

@@Jolron14 Steroids are vegan.

[@LoRNMonsterHunter]

I really like the debates between Destiny and VeganGains. Hope to see the next one sooner than 2 years lol.

[@Ebbelwoy]

VeganGains should have asked why Destiny never brought the H topic up with Nick. He had plenty of opportunity

[@liamcragin]

This whole argument was stupid but VG told on himself when he stated that Mao was probably smart but Hitler was dumb. What a joke of a conversation.

[@chrischris7003]

Destiny has to stop telling people that they are morally obsessed with this issue. If they believe Nick says antisemitic stuff and you keep saying you don't care, it doesn't mean THEY are obsessed. All they're doing is talking about something you don't care about. It's not obsession just because you dgaf

[@Mrraerae]

Especially when it's something pretty fucking serious that a lot of people care about. Such as antisemitism

[@kikiRa.]

They are though

[@chrischris7003]

@@kikiRa. caring about the issue, or discussing it isn't an obsession. Especially the way Destiny says it, like you're OBSESSED. we're not even near obsession with this issue. I get it, Destiny doesn't care about the label. Cool, good for him. But mister I want to be tactical and precise with my words, why would you use the word "obsession" about people who care whether or not Nick is seen as or is being antisemitic?

[@kikiRa.]

@@chrischris7003 sure. Just like how conservatives arent obsessed about calling lgbt people groomers, they just care about the issues and discussion

[@OJ_Pimpson]

It’s painful to agree with VG

[@jayess8714]

I know right

[@Roman-jx9ny]

Nah Destiny’s right. The whole quotesniping approach is lame and bad idea. The number of “maybe” quotes don’t make for a good basis to label someone as something. At most it makes for a good reason to look into it more

[@callowaymotorcompany]

@@Roman-jx9ny At a certain point, its not quote sniping. If you say the same things over and over, its probably what you believe.

[@jewelsvermin8866]

@@callowaymotorcompany Possibly but there is always the possibility that the context is bad for the quotes being used. Even if they are bad in context it doesn't mean VG is portraying the quotes accurately. It's better to actually engage the person, ask the question, and go from there.

[@Roman-jx9ny]

@@callowaymotorcompany There is no "at a certain point." All the evidence VG brought up just proves that Nick is MAYBE a Nazi. This is like basic research skills lol

[@skepticinall]

'Why do you need me to do it so much?' This is the core of the issue. The entire rest of the video is just fencing over shit that doesn't matter. That question is the core.

[@QuixEnd]

Dang.. I don't think destinys handled this argument well at any point. I like what he's trying to do but the tightrope he's walking has endless contradictions

[@DontEatSmurfs]

the issue is, destiny will not accept people calling nick a nazi because he dont fill all the points to being a nazi, nick is a extremist and a fash but not a nazi, what destiny is wanting to do is to bring value to the word again since people are devaluing it like crazy and using it wrongly, just because nick consider himself a catholic he cant be a nazi anymore

[@seanjenkins5505]

Name 2

[@matthewedwards8576]

@@DontEatSmurfs Why can’t you be a catholic and a Nazi? Plenty of Germans managed it

[@QuixEnd]

@@seanjenkins5505 I'd have to write out a whole page, but listening to all his debates on this I'd say it boils down to one issue. Does he refuse to call nick a Nazi because he truly isnt? Or because it does far more harm than good and closes off any beneficial discussions? I don't think he can defend both ways and it's led him into this impossible position where he jumps back and forth between both arguments

[@stbsole]

@@QuixEnd I think people are missing the point. If Destiny goes into any conversation and labels Nick a Nazi, the whole conversation is lost. Nick is smart enough to pick apart the Nazi label and cause Destiny to lose any momentum in his discussions. By attacking the beliefs and stances, Destiny can actually expose Nicks beliefs which is more meaningful than calling him a Nazi

[@YemYum]

I dont think vegan gains knows what "clearly" means, and he is literally just not listening. Destiny said multiple times that nick probably DOES hold anti-Semitic views, but vegan gains just kept yelling "why do you keep denying he has anti-Semitic views? Why are you defending nick? I just dont understand." A literal prime example on how labels rot the brain and any conversation ever.

[@mikecurry6847]

And I don't think you know what "literally" means 🤣🤣🤣

[@YemYum]

@@mikecurry6847 No, i mean what i said. He was legitimately, literally, and obviously not listening to what destiny was saying.

[@xp7575]

As a descendent of Holocaust survivors it def bothers me that he won't fully acknowledge that groypers are nazis but I do appreciate all of the work Destiny puts in debating against Nick and his ideas, Destiny does far more for the Left by attacking right wing ideas directly in front of right wing audiences than people like Vaush does by hiding in the hug box fortress of their own echo chambers refusing to debate them

[@nathanielobinwaiii4139]

Did nobody see when Destiny hopped on the call with Sneako, Aba, and Jidion, for the specific purpose of pushing back on his points and calling him out for calling race-mixing degenerate? Everybody is focused on him being a “nazi” when Destiny will openly call him a racist and fascist. I feel like that should be evidence that he’s not just trying to defend his buddy.

[@neighbourhoodmusician]

This debate lasts forever every time and boils down to: - I believe that you should call Nick a Nazi + I don't believe that is useful to do, so I'm not going to do that - You must + I disagree Repeat ad infinitum. Very boring.

[@dexter2392]

Yeah, the most boring and pointless debate Destiny ever had

[@superusseljames]

This

[@coffeepot3123]

@Media Management Because you're a kid just after the blood sports, go play some Minecraft while the adults are talking.

[@avenger1915]

By Destiny's own definition, Nick would be a nazi. It's fine if Destiny doesn't want to use labels -- there's no reason for him to lie or obfuscate.

[@lordgrey5223]

@@coffeepot3123 you might want to reread what you replied to. You made no sense.

[@awsomeboy360]

This goes to show how most of Destiny audiance don't think and they JUST agrees with EVERYTHING he says. I agree with Destiny a decent amount of time but this debate shows how weasly he is defending his friend Nick.

[@mickeyboy90]

Nick might be a nazi but fighting with him about it in destiny’s mind is less effective than just having a more laid back relationship with him and slowly changing the ideas of the individuals who follow nick since incessantly labelling him a nazi isn’t going to back them away from following nick. Destiny doesnt say there isn’t a place to call him a nazi, just that for him its more worthwhile to persue other types of deradicalisation.

[@phillyphillyyyyy]

VGs has a idea who nick is which he is unmovable on.. i would absolutely not say someone is something over clips without full context or actually talking that person myself and get my own idea n info.. i agree with destiny i would not say anyone is anything with research or talking to that person myself and ask these questions.. the dude has made up his mind and even asking nick and him disagreeing with VGs is saying VGs would still hold the position of nazi fascist ect ect.. VGs should ask nick himself its that simple LOL

[@RedSarGaming]

I'm only 20min in and I 100% agree. I am saying this as somewhat of a Destiny drone that agrees with 85% of the things he says. Destiny does not look good in this debate and VG is making some really great points. Saying that the cookie analogie could have been "just a joke" is something that Destiny has hit back on people saying before. He did this in his debate with Soph when she tired to defend Nick saying the cookie anlogy was a joke. To be fair that debate was a few years ago, but my point is it isn't a foreign concept to him to think the cookie thing is more than an "edgy joke". I do think Destiny is trying to be good faith here, but he is so entrenched in his position at this point that he has a hard time conceding any ground.

[@dominiks5068]

this might be the worst debate I've seen from destiny and I have followed him for almost 5 years

[@younggotti8195]

When vegan gains would lose bodybuilding debates until now, vegan has not become any better at this

[@cognitivedissonance9938]

The problem is not really that Destiny don’t want to use the word. Obesity is a word I would avoid when talking to somebody about their weight problems. It introduces unnecessary emotions and distracts from a productive convo. Just saying that he thinks it is ineffective is enough on that point. The problem is that it suddenly becomes so hard to get him to agree that Nick meets the criteria for the word. That would be like me refusing to admit that somebody has a BMI over 30 in order to avoid calling them obese.

[@Shadowh8ter]

You can determine factually someone has a BMI over 30, just have them stand on a scale. You can also prove Nick meets Destiny's criteria of Nazi, and that's not by going through the tens of thousands of hours of livestreaming he's done and picking out sh*t he said that's funny, it's by bringing him on a stream and debating him about his beliefs which Destiny hasn't done specifically yet.

[@kasaarsedai7692]

stop baiting so hard

[@thepowerofmyth]

Maybe he should just call them obese in a joking matter.. so then it fixes everything

[@JTOG94]

Bruh this debate took me back to so many past memories I lived out while listening to vegan gains and Destiny first go at it. Almost like hearing a song that brings back so many memories instantly. Cool.

[@WhiteRhino.]

Social Contract 😂

[@Gopherzooka]

honestly this debate reminded me of his times on drunken peasants. Vegan gains was half a step from threatening destiny with his big knife.

[@Jun-vr3uk]

Crying this dude annoyed destiny so much to the point he started defending Hitler

[@WarningBFG-isHiring]

Wait, Destiny defend Hitler? Nick is probably happy about that.

[@jonunderscore]

And everyone knows Hitler can’t be defended in any way. Because he was the Naziest Nazi!

[@Jun-vr3uk]

@@jonunderscore Dear redditor, my comment was a joke.

[@owljoe5890]

This whole Nazi argument sounds like a debate on gender

[@WickedHumor]

Let's all take a sigh of relief knowing that VG has had a vasectomy. These beliefs will die one at a time with any luck.

[@IchHalteDichInDerDunkelheit]

In retrospect, Destiny took a big fat L here.

[@rinneganofrage7206]

Destiny is all of a sudden so hesitant/uncertain in labeling when it comes to fuentes "Nick MIGHT be (Blank)" but would be fine doing this in any other context "Lefties are all blank" or "Hasan is a Communist". So its not hard to see why its perceived as Weaselly especially when he keeps answering "I Don't care" when both Vegan Gains/Mr Girl never ask him this nor do they say Destiny can't attack Nick Arguments

[@grandvage]

based destiny

[@leot-j6312]

Right. This was my problem. He had no problem labelling over people as communists, socialist lefties but all of a sudden when it comes to Nick he’s against it.

[@immanuelcunt7296]

Communist as a label doesn't hold as much power as Nazi.

[@Jb-du5xt]

Labeling someone as a nazi is a much heavier claim then accusing someone who identifies as a socialist as a communist

[@rinneganofrage7206]

@@Jb-du5xt The Social Consequences of being Labeled a Nazi is Heavier yes but that doesn't debunk that point that he's super Hesitant and uncertain about labeling Nick but in other contexts with other people...

[@xp7575]

As a descendent of Holocaust survivors it bothers me that Destiny won't acknowledge that Nick is a nazi but I do appreciate all the work Destiny puts in debating against Nick and his ideas, Destiny does far more for the Left by attacking right wing ideas directly in front of right wing audiences than people like Vaush does by hiding out in the hug box fortress of their own echo chambers refusing to debate them

[@midnightsun24c7]

True.

[@silvekin]

He is made very clear that is not so much a matter of whatever he wants to call him a nazi or not... but rather to attack his ideas... because as soon as he is call him a nazi Nick will find a way to avoid it. 🙄 so he is reading ahead of that move and going for something harder to fight back on... such as "policies, ideas, ideology etc" E.i A. Person calls B. Person a nazi B Person sides steps his policies as non nazi because of: Non affiliation "I have a lot of friends of different races" Etc *insert reason here* This often happens when people call others racist and they jump to... "well I have *insert race here* friend so I can't possibly be racist" Vs "Hey so why do you belive x ethnicity is lower IQ? Is this a belive that steams from their *insert race here* or their environment? Etc

[@testtube173]

Destiny and Nick have a conversation for a few hours discussing many different ideas and topics. All internet personalities that lean left talk about the word Nazi for 6 months.

[@drearmouse9510]

Right?? It's almost as if they're more interested in hating people rather than understanding them and perhaps pulling em out of a destructive worldview. Just astounding how they've latched onto this one thing.. like, there's missing the forest for the trees, then there's this ridiculous nonsense. >

[@waynewayne8419]

@@drearmouse9510 why would you want to understand a nazi?

[@Dikkefee]

@@waynewayne8419 if you don't understand a problem, how are you going to fix it/prevent it for the next time?

[@waynewayne8419]

@@Dikkefee just like we did last time or how we handle extremists. Life is not a movie where you fuck others and then get a redemption up. If you dont shape up, society will solve that issue real quick.

[@waynewayne8419]

@Boomer Boomer he is literally on record saying he thinks black people are less smart than white people.

[@cheekster2637]

The way vegan gains pronounces everything as Avery thing, fills me with rage

[@disengen]

Destiny defending Fuentes has gotta be in the top 5 worst arcs alongside the mr girl friendship arc

[@PieInTheSky9]

I listened to the cookie analogy, and nick is clearly being serious there about what he actually believes. I think destiny is being a bit weasly here to be honest. I can't stand vegan gains, but I think he's right here.

[@kennyblankenship9044]

absolutely correct. Destiny took a big L on this

[@willgia]

The conclusion of his argument is not “Nick is not a Nazi” He’s arguing “There’s 0 value in calling him a Nazi, and so much to gain by shutting down the dumb ideas one by one.”

[@Casper-Ghost]

What is the "Cookie Analogy"? They didn't explain in this video.

[@heraldofoblivion499]

@@Casper-Ghost Nick doesn't think the Holocaust is real, he made a joke over how "6 million cookies take longer to cook than 6 million bodies". Or something like that.

[@Jekiterio]

Nick got asked that joke by a dono if you pay attention, Its a joke with a true undertone. He isn't an anti-semite or a bad epithet for agreeing with the joke (implying he does), would you Imagine it to be okay if you get a bad nickname everytime you disagree with someone? its just a form of censorship and Vegan gains is playing bad faith knowing those labels have bad ramifications because of the mainstream media which has no sense of nuances, and views everything in black and white.

[@Buluga06]

Destiny trying to weasel out of every criticism thank you vegan for making him squirm

[@justinpurcell3717]

The only person Vegan ever made squirm was his dying grandpa that he recorded while saying "this is why you don't eat meat"... Nothing VG says as far as morals go carries weight after that, dude shouldn't even be allowed into society. I wouldn't be surprised if he was diagnosed borderline sociopathic.

[@TeaCubeds]

I enjoy Destiny's content but he is being way too charitable and defending of Nick and his actions and of what he has said in the past. The cookie analogy was clearly not a joke and he is too easy to dismiss things as "Nick joking around." I think all of this defense is coming from when he has been accused of being transphobic despite being a trans ally and having his actions showing him being an ally. Its also so weasly of him to say "maybe" or "he probably is" when being asked about what Nick believes when its clear what his stances are. He isn't being quote sniped, those are just his positions.

[@SagaciousSap69]

If you think destiny defended nick or any of his beliefs here you are beyond bricked in the head. He clearly explained his reasoning for how he chooses to act, like 50 times when VG would reiterate the same moral monologuing over and over. If you can’t understand at that point the failure to comprehend is wholly on you

[@kikiRa.]

First time I've seen someone try to look smart by pretending not to know what probably means

[@miserycord0666]

Honestly I respect Richard for not backing down on this topic. Steven tried many times to deflect (“why don’t you debate Fuentes then?”) but Richard did his best to get Destiny to commit and say Nick is a Nazi. Also seeing Destiny f up at the end by saying how can you be catholic and a nazi and then Richard immediately pouncing on the fact that Hitler was friendly with the Catholic Church, you could tell Destiny was trying to cope by only responding with “you’re dead wrong”

[@Vogue69]

The catholic church was responsible for enabling high level nazis to flee the country

[@cdubsb3831]

But he was dead wrong. Hitler grew up in and eventually turned on the church. Most historical accounts show this. He appealed to the Christian base but a couple of months into 1933, when the Catholic church asked for concordat, he threatened Pacelli into signing the Reichskonkordat which barred the church from participating in politics.

[@aa-qx1cg]

"Friendly with the Catholic Church" doesn't mean he was Catholic. Hitler was first and foremost a national socialist, which he believed to be a progressive ideology based in science. He tolerated Christianity because most Germans were Christians but he was disdainful of it and makes that clear in his writings.

[@ihatetheantichrist2752]

Pope Pious 12 saved 800K jews and Israel even made a statue to honor him.

[@brandonk.4864]

Destiny can’t be serious that the cookie analogy is the exact same as the ok sign

[@synlion]

Are you one of those people who think two things have to be the same thing to be compared to each other?

[@couldyou4745]

@@synlion why would you attempt to engage with an obviously brain dead person?

[@MiguelAJzplaylist]

Why can’t people just say that nicks political view parallels that of a Nazis political views? Rather than just labeling? That’s all destiny is really arguing for. Americans really need to get rid of the labels and just focus on working together.

[@joshh5353]

Good luck working with Nick Fuentes

[@waynewayne8419]

How exactly am i going to work with someone who believes his race is better than mine. Please educate me

[@MiguelAJzplaylist]

@@waynewayne8419 doing exactly what destiny is doing, slowly changing him. It could be vice versa, but honestly destiny has to much self awareness for that. But I will concede that a lot of people who think this way can’t be convinced otherwise, so my suggestion to you is find someone with views like this that will actually have a conversation with you and dismantle their arguments. Don’t try to change someone if they’re not open for an actual debate of politics.

[@MiguelAJzplaylist]

@@waynewayne8419 I mean what’s the alternative?

[@2jake077]

​@@MiguelAJzplaylist only thing happening here is nick is slowing changing destiny's audience because destiny is too incompetent to actually handle this situation. that's why nick loves talking with destiny so much, he knows he can go on there and get what he wants right under destiny's nose, all the while destiny thinks he's a hyper intellectual next level liberal ideologue for being exploited

[@TimPortantno]

The issue isn't the label, it's if Nick secretly wants to harm people. Both sides are skirting that issue by focusing on definitions.

[@VIEWITIS]

Exactly. The moment I see that Fuentes wants to hurt people I'll be against him. So far his opponents are more destructive on both a ground level at "protests" and a societal level in law. I don't like his language and I think it can stoke ignorant/stupid listeners' bad ideas into fruition, but Vegan Gains and MrGirl fall into this same category of provocative blowhards.

[@andrewcox5873]

@@VIEWITIS which of Fuentes opponents are more destructive? Who even are his “opponents”?

[@VIEWITIS]

@@andrewcox5873 He's a reactionary against the liberal paradigm, which includes almost everyone you can think of in politics and government who plan the daycares, the wars, Wall Street, etc. They're the reason America is in decline and kids are depressed and fucked up and poor. Fuentes might represent a viable political option in the future once he gets a policy team, unless his idiot brigade ruins him first.

[@andrewcox5873]

@@VIEWITIS but the people who plan the wars are also the ones who pave the roads and build the schools and hire the police officers. You're literally taking only the bad things from one side, and comparing them to the totality of another side. Not to mention you're comparing a single individual to an entire political analogy. Apples to oranges doesnt even cover it.

[@ggzyt_livitup3898]

@@andrewcox5873 black folk

[@moshiurrahman3116]

Honestly speaking!! Destiny got clapped in this debate by vegan gains. And this is my first video of vegan gains I have ever seen. Didn’t even know he existed before.

[@albertjohnston1026]

Not sure if VG did beat Destiny logically, I'd probably disagree with you there, but rhetorically almost definitely because IMO this entire arc is going to unavoidably be an L. That said, pretty much all of VG's debates with Destiny in the past have been W's for VG, primarily because they have always been about Veganism and VG is (for obvious reasons) very good at debating for veganism.

[@moshiurrahman3116]

@@albertjohnston1026 yeah I didn’t know about VG prior to this video. Logically neither VG or Destiny won. Destiny’s argument was confusing. He kept going back and forth in his opinion. Destiny is basically saying there is a 100% chance, Nick is fascist, 100% chance, he is antisemite, and 90% chance, he is conspiratorial antisemite (probably). Just because of that 10%, I won’t call him a nazi. Yes I agree rhetorically VG won.

[@albertjohnston1026]

@@moshiurrahman3116 Fwiw, I think the piece you're missing there is the desire to commit genocide. The conspiratorial antisemite thing was part of the more general "being an antisemite" on the 3 legs. And that's where I think Destiny really needed to drill down. He does not think Nick is, openly at least, interested in genocide. That one leg being gone makes it hard to label Nick a Nazi proper. Close, but just not quite. There was apparently something Nick said about wiping out the gays which could have swayed things but without a clip and context that's not particularly useful as an example in Destiny's eyes (which I think is reasonable). Not to get too into it, I just figured I'd fill in the gap there :)

[@justinhall5102]

@@moshiurrahman3116 BUT THAT IS NOT WHAT H3 IS SAYIN. HE SEEMS TO AGREE THAT NICK IS A NAZI, BUT HE DOES NOT WANT TO USE THE NAZI LABEL BECAUSE HE DOES NOT WANT PEOPLE TO BE TURNED OFF TO HIS MESSAGE BECAUSE OF THE CONNOTATION of "nazi". caps lock was on

[@moshiurrahman3116]

@@justinhall5102 yes it is true! I agree that some people or let’s say most people in Nick’s audience would get turned off when they hear that they are getting called a “Nazi”. Who cares about that. Nick and Nick’s audience is literally saying the worst things imaginable to all races, making antisemitic jokes, racebaiting etc. Why are we giving this people so much thought behind what these people think or have to say or why do we care if they get turned off by it. That’s what I do not understand. You have to call it for what it is sometimes. Let’s say you kill someone and I call you a murderer. Your parents come in and say my boy is sweetest boy ever. He could never have done this. Just because I could offend your parents, I shouldn’t call you a murderer. Logically it doesn’t make sense bro!

[@jessecote3591]

“I don’t want to dwell on this too long.” VG Are you sure about that, champ?

[@Ratatoothie]

VG got rekt. Shame his community thinks he destroyed Destiny.

[@MrWatchowtnow]

He sounds like a squeaky toy

[@Shadowh8ter]

Dude says like 3 times a sentence and ppl think he's smart lol

[@jeremyduke4938]

Ok... seuuuww.... uhmmmmm.... destiny..... when nick sayssss..... i dont like jewsss... ummm... and you say hes jokiiiiinnnng... destinnyyy.... agaaaiiiinnnn....

[@Section8dc]

His community has sided with him on way crazier shit then losing an argument, Richard is crazy as a shit house rat 🐀💩

[@awsomeboy360]

Lmfao. If you had a brain you would know Destiny got rekt. Vegan Gains literally destroy the freaking weasle. Defending a LITERAL Nazi. Nick a historical revisionist and a literal Nazi. Destiny has NO problems labeling dudes in the left as communist sometimes baseless or not, but Nick is apparently not a Nazi? The dude reeks of BAD FAITH.

[@caitlin8349]

I think vegan gains actually did a pretty good job

[@Domskater55]

Totally agree with you. People cuck too much for their favourite influencer without listening to their opponents views.

[@CrestOfArtorias]

Nah the brainrot is strong with that one. You would have to be braindead to not get Destiny's point. Which is: in order to make the world a better place we need to engage with people like Nick and his audience in a manner that challenges their views, without making it impossible to do that. Calling them Nazi, even if true, doesn't help you move their positions. Only a braindead person would think it would.

[@seandandy6115]

How did Vegan Gains do a good job? He accused Nick of being a Nazi when he has no evidence of it. Nick just wants a return to traditional life. He is not a racist.

[@CrestOfArtorias]

@@seandandy6115 Even IF he was, calling him one doesn't further Destiny's goal.

[@seandandy6115]

@@CrestOfArtorias But Nick isn't. So no one should worry.

[@lafxcraft]

Damn haven't heard from vegan gains in a minute. Their first debate was like 5 years ago.

[@MrKristianNorrman]

Drink everytime "cookie analogy" is said

[@LiftedGamingLoL]

I genuinely can't tell if destiny is being purposely obtuse and as ambiguous as possible, or if any mention of Nick genuinely melts his brain. It's weird to watch.

[@Nitsua1201]

VG: Claim! D: Clarifies Position VG: Restates claim with incredulity D: Agrees assuming claim is true VG: Stays mad There's no winning. Stop talking about WW2 bad guys please.

[@goddess_bree]

pretty sure hitler literally declared he was "not a catholic" early in his rule. The Nazis literally rejected most traditional christian doctrines. Amazing how VG is not only wrong on the facts, but he never takes into account things like context, nor does he seem to listen. Poor Destiny wasting him on someone like him.

[@BrendanishLeo]

It's something that circulated (well I'm sure Long before) in early internet super atheist days. I'll be honest I thought it for a while too, but I didn't care to study history at all It's just like how vg claimed Adolf never explicitly called for violence, confidence mixed with an absolute lack of desire to learn.

[@sudafedup]

@@BrendanishLeo yeah I find it weird that he brought that up. Literally a Google search and one can find a plethora of information on Hitler's views on religion, Christianity and particularly Catholicism were things he hated. I don't know where the "Hitler never called for violence" thing came from, though.

[@nicolainrregaard4819]

The Catholic church celebrated Hitlers birthday until he died..

[@sudafedup]

@@nicolainrregaard4819 No, they didn't. Literally trying to find evidence of the Catholic Church celebrating Hitler's birthday and I can't. There aren't and never were any holidays commemorating him in the Catholic Church.

[@bh1935]

Fuentes did literal blood libel on a destiny video with over 300 thousand views. Destiny did zero pushback.

[@jimmyramos1989]

Why can’t Destiny just say “I don’t care what Nick does or says. I like to hang out with him and that’s it.” Nobody is going to change Destiny’s mind on this. I wish he did. But he just doesn’t.

[@synchronium24]

word

[@Gorko88]

This debate is the "Ok, Uh, Destiny, again..." debate. I'm losing my mind every time he repeats that mantra like a robot.

[@spyzebyo9466]

He is right on the cookie thing tho. Something so fleshed out, numbers and all, from someone like nick is not a joke. And I'd call it defending as well.

[@Loneshdo]

@@spyzebyo9466 The specific numbers adds to the humour. If you don't get it then idk what to tell you, you either understand or you don't.

[@spyzebyo9466]

@@Loneshdo come on, don't do that. There are jokes about the Holocaust, racism and what not. And there is this clip. I don't think any of your friends or yourself would ever make a "joke" like this.

[@handsomelyditto4215]

almost like destiny keeps dodging

[@handsomelyditto4215]

@@Loneshdo lol """humour"""

[@individual7046]

This conversation is literially the same argument every 3 minutes.

[@artiekoshtun]

What is his problem? He is talking like he is always tired. Is it a symptom of veganism?

[@mrpumperknuckles1631]

52:44 at this point I have confirmed by psychologically, analyzing vegan gains or as an egomaniac and borderline disabled, and I. I have determined is based upon the evidence that he believes that he’s a more intellectually capable person than some of the most controversial minds of the world throughout the past two centuries. He doesn’t only not understand him history from World War II era politics, and Geo political standpoint but also, I over, conflate his ego as if he won’t walk down the same exact path as he’s killed here accusing of being stupid for. He holds myself into this regard, as if he was a lot more intelligent than some of these world leaders for its time and the guy honestly doesn’t know anything about philosophy.

[@thepowerofmyth]

Did destiny really say the leaders of flat earth theory are smart people?? 😂. Most of them think the earth is 6000 years old and ignore all the diversity of modern sciences. Perhaps that makes them more ignorant than dumb? Idk

[@andrewcox5873]

Does thinking the world is 6000 years old preclude you from being intelligent? Like for example Mitt Romney is Mormon meaning he believes humans came from different planets. Gary Kasparov believes that a supernatural being impregnated a virgin who gave birth to a son that was later resurrected from death. Are these people smart or dumb would you say?

[@davidcampos8032]

What is smart ? Idk I swear sometimes I hear it used like they are dumb because they don’t agree with me. That doesn’t mean flat earth leaders are right but are they stupid? No.

[@bizzzzzzle]

The issue I have is both of them are ok that “Normies” have a definition that’s different then others, and that’s not an issue. The definition the majority use is the correct one in language.

[@randybobandy9828]

Not the point dummy

[@gumballwatterson3231]

I don't know if you can say there is ONE correct definition of a word. There are words that can have a wide variety of meanings depending on the context in which they're used.

[@bizzzzzzle]

@@gumballwatterson3231 yes you can… you put your foot down and say all other a are wrong, this happens in science all the time.

[@JustinWillhoit]

He admits that Nick dodges debates. True. Would you prefer destiny start trying to grill him on two year old tweets and ruin the rapport and ability to talk to him ? If destiny sticks to his guns here, he stays in nick’s arena and is able to push back. The second destiny is like the other lefties that just try to attack him on being a Nazi, he will distance himself and go into his shell. What does destiny benefit there ?

[@lafxcraft]

But he is a nazi. Idk why Destiny has such hard time admitting it. We already all agree Nick is at least a fascist so why so much trouble just labeling him a nazi then when he explicitly expressed views that were aligned with nazi beliefs.

[@RavencrowProductions]

I never want to hear cookie analogy ever again.

[@MADDcartman]

Most scholars understand Hitler to totally reject Christianity in his adult life. He is viewed to see nature as the divine, with social Darwinism as the sword to wield to ultimate reign.

[@daffyuser]

askers?

[@HaseoXth]

Can't believe I'm actually siding with vegan gains... Hell must be frozen

[@ShengFink]

yeah, i get why destiny in particular won't call nick a nazi, he's currently trying to conveert some of nick's audience away from nazism and its hard to do that while calling them nazis but we as an audience can see that if nick isn't a nazi he's the closest thing to it.

[@HaseoXth]

@@ShengFink you know what, that is what I hoped it was but I'm starting to think either Nick is getting bummed and Destiny is trying to rebrand him, OR this controversy is just for the clicks and care not for the ramifications. Starting to think all these folks are clowns with little interest in anything or anyone but the dollar and sh*t stirring.

[@ShengFink]

@@HaseoXth i mean you can be super doomer if u want lol

[@ferrjuan]

All those people saying “Destiny” is a girl’s name get your facts straight it’s not just any girl’s name, it’s a stripper’s name!

[@rafiqjennings5262]

Your side is beating that “you didn’t call him a Nazi“ dead horse. I’m telling you again, if they want to keep talking about this after you have explain your position again and again and again and again and again, just bring on Sneako, have him yell at them, call them all bots and call it a day. As New Age Britney stated, you have stepped out of your comfort zone and we have no idea how it will go. However, I’m sure you know this and I bet she knows is, the people on the other side are far way cooler than the people on your side. How will your stepping out of your comfort zone will go? You’ll have to follow through with it to find out. But there will be growth on all levels.

[@cptweed3717]

he should just ask him if he still thinks about killing crying baby's lmao vegan is a legit nut job.

[@FeldiArts]

And this is why meat in your diet is actually important dear children.

[@spyzebyo9466]

I think gains first point is actually pretty true, and I think that's what all of this is about at the end. While nick might not be as extreme outwards anymore, his views are pretty consistent with what most people would consider a Nazi. He definitely doesn't advocate for violence, but he is anti democratic, implicitly and explicitly and his anti Jewish and anti non white stuff as well as the women views definitely play into Nazi chosen people ideology. I think in the USA, both lefty's and right wingers will be agreeing with him being a Nazi if presented with bullet points of his ideology.

[@jewelsvermin8866]

True. But destiny is correct when he says the labels are unproductive at this point. Nazi, fascist, racist, and phobic have been thrown around so much at this point that their meaningless terms. Nazi has lost its utility as a description. If gains called nick a nazi in general conversation with someone who didn't know who nick is or what he says the person would just think MAGA republican.

[@HyperFocus410]

Destiny lost this argument, but his fans will never admit it. Contrary to what Destiny's chat is saying, Vegan Gains is sharp and was always able to have a comeback that negated Destiny's arguments or made them look half-baked. In the end, Destiny gave up trying.

[@Freerezervex]

"Lost argument" bro literally ran around in an infinite loop

[@tommylehomme8695]

One of the rare cases where I watch the intro, and disagree with Destiny so profoundly on his priorities I don't even have to listen to the debate.

[@markharrison6498]

@@Cumdown nick meets almost every possible definition of the term nazi.

[@markharrison6498]

@@Musaxen watching a video intro is rumours to you?

[@clev5678]

@@markharrison6498 The whole point Destiny is making is that he doesn’t want to interact with the term because it invokes negative connotation and puts Nick in an uncomfortable position. If you’re concerned with having a serious conversation where your opponent will be open with their views, it doesn’t help to shame them for views that you’ve yet to confirm. It makes people feel unheard. He literally says in this video, that by HIS definition of Nazi, Nick probably does fit them. But he 1) doesn’t know how the listeners are interpreting these terms, and 2) and isn’t interesting in shutting down the conversation with Nick because he’s being pressured into using a label. If you think he shouldn’t be platforming Nick in the first place, you have every right to feel that way. But to say “Nick fits every definition of Nazi I can think of so why won’t Destiny call him a Nazi” is a statement that’s clearly made in ignorance to the argument being made. Good morning

[@markharrison6498]

@@clev5678 yeah, I get all that. I’m just salty about the direction destiny’s channel has taken. I’d rather he treat these people with the level of respect they deserve instead of kissing up to them. Destiny definitely has an economic insensitive to appeal to a right wing audience so I can understand why he’s doing it. Again, just disappointed with the boring people destiny hangs around with now but I’ll continue to tune in from time to time in case something interesting happens

[@markharrison6498]

@@Musaxenno I get his point. I just disagree with his current ideology/epistemology

[@ThankYouStayedHere]

holy shit listening to VG just going back and restating every question after not understanding the answer is so aggravating

[@zeedom5848]

because there was no answer. destiny kept on avoiding the question for nearly 30 minutes or so before he finally answered yes to it.

[@zeedom5848]

because there was no answer. destiny kept on avoiding the question for nearly 30 minutes or so before he finally answered yes to it.

[@TheGangsterousG]

I somehow thought he was more intelligent than this

[@azurezerox8392]

@@zeedom5848 there was an answer. and no he didn't avoid it. at first he was trying to clarify the question so that his answer would have a clear meaning. and even after he said "probably" several times, Vegan just went into a full meltdown unable to process what destiny was saying and continued to pretend that the answer was "no".

[@zKrazeM8]

@@azurezerox8392npc

[@SydneyRoc]

When I saw the thumbnail I said "Ooooooooh SOOOOOY!" as a joke and then I realized he's talking to a vegan

[@JMikaelian95]

I forgot VeganGains exists, im also not thankful for being reminded of his existence

[@Zach.C1]

Destiny really went from “no he’s not” to “maybe but idk” to “he probably is but idk” to “yes he’s anti-Semitic

[@AppleOfThineEye]

Not every anti-semite is a newtsee. That's Destiny's point.

[@awsomeboy360]

Destiny can call someone like vaush a communist but refuse to call Nick a Nazi. Goddamn

[@dondon9221]

vaush would say he likes communism though

[@gabriel-uc1uz]

Well Vaush is an open communist. Nick is not a national socialist.

[@chasepalumbo2929]

Nazi is a wayyyyyy more loaded word in today’s culture. Goddamn

[@awsomeboy360]

@@gabriel-uc1uz No he ain't. Nick is even more of a Nazi than Vaush would be a "communist". He absolutely trashes Tankie most of the time. Nick literally agrees with all the talking points of nazi's.

[@awsomeboy360]

@@chasepalumbo2929 He LITERALLY IS. He hangs out with them on a regular. This isn't a miscategorization type of thing. Nick IS A Nazi in EVERY sense of the fucking word.

[@plokky8052]

I had a higher opinion of VG's ability to debate but this was abysmal.

[@MrMentalpuppy]

Bro, why does this vegan guy think he is more virtuous than God? He also seems believes he's the next Socrates. If he likes labels so much, here is one: Legan Lains.

[@gickygackers]

Because he's a vegan lol

[@DiegoRomer0]

Nice

[@MrMentalpuppy]

I faintly recall his name years ago but it wasn't in a positive light lol

[@unikracoon1913]

I don't see why Destiny doesn't just say that nick is probably a Nazi but that doesn't change the fact that his followers can have their minds changed

[@RichardWilliams-bt7ef]

I hate vegan gains so much.

[@thepowerofmyth]

Destiny is trying so hard to diminish Nick's radical beliefs 😂. It's odd, but I have faith it's all apart of his masterplan to get to the groypers.. even though, so far I think it's backfired and has helped Nick more than destiny

[@kennyblankenship9044]

it is beyond odd

[@lamwam5065]

I don't see how his beliefs are extreme or over the top.

[@synchronium24]

@@lamwam5065 That's not a good sign for you.

[@rockstar-made]

@@lamwam5065 Insanity

[@lamwam5065]

@@synchronium24 "That's not a good sign for you." 🤓

[@Karen_Marie]

Whats wrong with being a holocaust revisionist? Are the facts and figures sacred? They can't be debated? How ridiculous and un-American. No historical event should ever be above scrutiny. The reason Nick is dodging a debate isn't because he's afraid he doesn't have the facts on his side, he's clearly afraid of the public reprocussions of from his ideas, which again, is totally un-American.

[@famitsus987]

Oh he has the facts many people do

[@famitsus987]

And they definitely can be debated

[@mandaseesstars]

Shhh, the man who recorded his grandfather dying is trotting on his moral high horse today

[@WarningBFG-isHiring]

@@mandaseesstars Wow, doesn’t change the fact that being a Holocaust “revisionist” is still a stupid position.

[@WarningBFG-isHiring]

Your name is Karen. Take the L.