LATENCY TEST: 23 amp modelling pedalboards compared! Quad Cortex vs, FM3 vs Helix vs BOSS vs NUX....

[@OlaEnglund]

I know this is a year old, but I just wanted to thank you for this video. This is something that's not talked about enough...

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Thank you so much, really appreciated. I'm really happy that you like the video!!!

[@giuliodanelon6945]

Hi, can you make Boss pedals sound like metal drives? Can they chug? To my ears, from the Boss GT-10, GT-100, GT-1000, GX-100, all the high-gain drives sound like a bee box.

[@SirCrashaLot]

You are a hero Leo. Coming from Drone racing I am very sensitive to latency, typically it means being able to avoid a wall or smashing into it. I am shopping for modeller to replace my analog setup and I find your content very informative. Thanks.

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

You welcome! I'm super happy that you find the videos useful!!!

[@peterallen964]

Bare in mind that it takes sound 3ms to travel a meter in air, so if you are capable of playing 3m from your amp (if it's on the floor, that's you standing at a person distance) away from it while keeping time, you should be fine with 10ms latency. It gets really messed up when you think about how far you are from different members of your average band, or even the latency difference between different drums

[@SirCrashaLot]

@@peterallen964 interesting input. thanks.

[@nostalgia-for-infinity]

@@peterallen964 I don’t disagree with your point, however, when playing with a modeler live, that audio-through-air latency exists on top on the modeler latency unless you are using IEMs. As others have pointed out, it gets worse if you are using 4CM too. Add wireless and things are a little more latent too.

[@JohnShalamskas]

@@nostalgia-for-infinity All digital modeller FX loops have D/A and A/D conversion, which adds a few ms of latency if you use it, 4CM being one such usage. Wireless connections and "digital" pedals in the signal path also do A/D and D/A conversion, adding more latency. On the HX Stomp and Stomp XL, the FX loop adds around 3ms. The HX Stomp has about 3ms latency on the primary signal path. Add 5ms for wireless guitar connection. Add 5ms for one external digital pedal, like an IR for speaker and cabinet. Now you are up to 16 ms, which might be noticeable and annoying to the guitar player.

[@firatyildirim2288]

You make ultimate modeler tests, nothing compares in youtube or forums, thanks.

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Thank you so much, I'm happy that you appreciate the video!

[@allboutthemojo]

@@LeoGibsonGtr it's a very interesting and useful test you posted. Thanks. Have been considering buying the GE 300 but when you look on Facebook groups, many people complain that the unit freezes and malfunctions during updates and Mooer doesn't release any fixes.

[@DogdaySunrise]

Wow, I cannot say how happy I am about this video. I was searching far and wide to get information on modeler latency and came back empty handed or with questionable sources. Thank you for this tremendous amount of work. Your content is always high quality but this time you have really outdone yourself. Bravo! :)

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Grazie mille!!! I'm super happy that you like the video and that you find it useful!!!

[@berndkiltz]

Thank you again for those videos. I am one of those latency-sensitive people... for example, I feel it when my signal from my FM9 is going through a digital mixer. Those things have terrible latency, and add to that the latency of the FM9 (2-3ms I suppose) and it is nearing 9-11. 11 I can feel in any blindtest. So your values here are GOLD! I recommend your channel in a lot of my videos.

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

You are welcome Bernd and I'm really honored that you mention my channel in your videos: really appreciated! I'm also happy to have been of some help!!!

[@TheHcSilva]

Just wanted to stop by and thank you for your effort in this regard. This isn't something that gets discussed normally and it's critical in so many rigs. Gracias Leo!

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

You are welcome and I'm really happy that you appreciate the video!!

[@lares1982]

Great Leo! This is one of those videos that you don't think anyone ever does and Leo did a great job. Excellent channel, every video is very good.

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Thank you so much!!! I'm really happy that you appreciate the work, the video and the channel !!!

[@egogreen2045]

sound is subjective and latency is the truth very helpful video mr.Leo

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Thank you so much, really appreciated!

[@egogreen2045]

@@LeoGibsonGtr curious with Boss IR-200

[@mathumphreys]

This amazing Leo. Thank you for putting in so much work and for being so thorough with your process. Also, your explanation is really excellent, every question that came in to my head was answered by you. Excellent work!! I'm really looking forward to your comparison of "true bypass" or pass-through if you think it would make an interesting topic. Once again thanks so much for the effort.

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Thank you, I'm super happy that you like the video! Yes, maybe I will go in more details with one or two modellers. Thank you!

[@V.Drouin]

Thanks for the video, very informative! Your videos helped a lot in my search for the best amp modeller for me and I ended up with an FM3. It's absolutely amazing!

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Thank you so much Vincent, I'm happy to have been of some help!!! Thank you also for sharing your final choice...

[@digitalchris6681]

What a useful and interesting video - thanks Leo. I guess I'm not the only one right now scratching my head trying to interpret the results!

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Thank you Chris, I was also surprised, but then the results started to make sense...I mean, QC, FM3 and Kemper all at around 3ms...in my opinion there is a balance to be found between the latency / fastness and the quality (converters and algorithms) and maybe the right spot is around 3 ms...

[@digitalchris6681]

@@LeoGibsonGtr Hi Leo. The biggest anomaly was the GT1000 but I always thought it sounded 'digital' so perhaps as you say, this is the trade-off.... so if your 3ms observation is correct (and I think it is) in order to move the whole digital movement forwards, we need a big quantum leap in technology ! By the way (I will delete this post when you have read it): "sensible to latency" should be "sensitive to latency" and "3 dot 5" should be "3 point 5".

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Yes, I think you are right...to drastically improve latency we probably need a big step forward in term of processing power...another possibility is to drastically change the approach...and I'm really curious to see what BluGuitar with the AMP X is gonna do... Thank you for the corrections...I need to improve my English... 😀... but I put all the time I have in making music or videos...so no time left for improve my English... no need to delete the post...you are just right...and the polite suggestions (like yours) are welcome!

[@KrishinPillay]

I can't appreciate your work enough Leo .... this is so informative and helps a ton when making a decision

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Thank you soooo much, I'm really happy that you appreciate the video!!!

[@ashthegreat1]

I love any review that starts with a methodology. Youve provided a very useful service here. Thank you 🙏

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

You are welcome and I'm really happy that you have appreciated the video!!!

[@stormyandcold]

It's no wonder Boss feels so good to play. This video is such a great asset to the community, thank you so much Leo!

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

You are welcome, and I'm happy to have been of some help!

[@giuliodanelon6945]

Unfortunately, Boss metal distortions are trash. Can anyone explain why?

[@Drumming_Monkey]

Makes me happy again that I bought the NUX MG 30. So incredible what you get for that price. Thanks for the video, amazing work.

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Thank you, I'm really happy that you like the video! Thank you also for sharing your opinion!

[@Stoffendous]

You are the hero we don't deserve Leo.

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Thank yo so much....I even don't know how to answer...this is a great compliment!!!!

[@AchSeverIne]

Thank you Leo! That is really interesting. Thanks also for the very qualified test setup. For an even more reliable result, a series of tests with different amp models and effects would be a dream.

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Thank you! Yes, adding amp models and effect would be interesting...but it would be almost impossible with all these pedalboards...as it would take ages...On the other hand I can do a specific latency video focused on one device...checking out how the latency vary according to the signal chain... Thank you!

[@funkymonksrockband2187]

Grazie Leo per i tuoi video! Da possessore di Nux Mg-30 e Hx Stomp non posso che essere soddisfatto! Ciao!

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Grazie a te e grazie anche per aver condiviso la tua attrezzatura!!

[@khaldounj]

Thanks Leo, I was considering buying Nux AmpAcademy. after this test I"m sold. I'm buying it. very informative videos.

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

You are welcome, and I'm happy to have been of some help!!! Thank you also for sharing your final choice!

[@soekma_aoeliea]

I just bought Nux Amp Academy and amazed by its Audio Interface performance. I mean, at that price point you've got such low latency audio. I wonder how another Modelling at higher price can achieve and this video shows it all. Such a great content! Thanks!

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Thank you, I'm happy that you like the content!!!

[@97guitarzan]

This is very interesting...very extensive. Must have taken you a lot of time. I too am used to dealing with latency..I use a Fishman Tripleplay MIDI Controller and I've used ampsims on and off a lot over the years and with less than ideal systems. As a guitar player the main reason I got a Thunderbolt 3 audio interface, after I put my new (was new) computer together was to get best latency possible. I' ve been looking at hardware modellers lately and this information that you've put together is valuable and appreciated. Thanks once again Leo.

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

You are welcome Kim, I'm happy that you find the info useful!! Thank you also for sharing your experience!

[@BingsBuddery]

Subbed. Fantastic content. It's just sublime to have a video to quick reference for latency in modelers. Really excellent work, Mr. Gibson. Please continue!

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Thank you so much, I'm really happy that you appreciate the video and your sub means a lot to me!!!

[@jcoulter43]

As always Leo, your analysis is spot-on. I too was very surprised at the results. I would have thought conventional wisdom would have said The more you paid the lower the latency would be, but that was not to be the case. Great video and very informative as always. God bless and rock on 🎸😎👍

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Thank you! Yes, the more you spend the less latency you would expect...but in my opinion the more you spend, the more the converters are refined and the more the algorithms could be complex..thus adding latency...so it's a kind of balance to be found between latency and quality...that's maybe why the high end amp modeller are not at the top, but still with pretty good latency time at 3 ms. Thank you!

[@nostalgia-for-infinity]

@@LeoGibsonGtr I would also add, the more you pay, the more other features you get as well, which may-or-may-not be important to you. There are a lot of trade-offs in what features each brand brings to the table. Latency is just one. For example, in the case of Fractal, you are getting a ton of flexibility around customization, regular firmware updates for years, one of the best desktop editors out there, etc. In the case of Neural, you are getting really good profiling, a fantastic UI, and microphone inputs, etc.

[@peterbrusch1493]

Latency is always a theme for me and so this test very, very useful and surprising. Thank You so much!

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

You are welcome Peter, I'm happy to have been of some help!

[@bobdelellis]

Thank you, Leo. Great video with some surprising results. I'm sure most of us expected the high-end units (Fractal, Kemper & Quad Cortex) to be more toward the top. I have a Kemper Stage, an HX Stomp and just got a Quad Cortex. The only difference I've noticed between the Kemper and QC is when pitching down. The QC seems faster when you start giving it some complex things to do. One thing that makes sense is the units that do more and sound better are working harder and, therefore, might take longer to do the additional tasks. I would like to know how this latency compares to a real amp. There has to be a very small amount of latency even in amp for the tubes to respond to the input. I'm sure some of these units are so fast that humans can't really detect the latency. I've been playing the Kemper Stage almost exclusively for almost 3 years, so that is my new normal, anyway, and I either don't detect any latency or I've just gotten used to it.

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

You are welcome, and I'm happy that you like the video! Actually I think that analog gear has basically no latency, as the signal should travel at the speed of light...the only latency is the one needed for the wave produced by the speaker to reach your ears... Thank you!

[@stevenvandemsky7290]

Analog equipment doesn’t have any latency at all, that’s the nature of analog!

[@angrybuzzy]

Such an interesting test and results. Thanks, Leo!

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

You are welcome and I'm happy that you like the video!!!

[@CL_Audio_Tuning]

Truly a monumental test Leo! This is really really surprising and impressive, thank you for the info. Im enjoying a GP200 right now and really have not sat down to see if the latency is a problem for me, but so far im not too worried. Keep up the great content!

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Hi Claudio, thank you so much, I'm super happy that you like the video!!! Thank you also for sharing your experience!!

[@CL_Audio_Tuning]

Hey @@LeoGibsonGtr! A bit of info on this, which im sure you might know already, there was a user post in one of the Facebook groups for the GP a sample of the switching between presets to see what the unit was doing, and he noticed that there is a "fade in" effect applied to the sound to bring it in which seems to add a bit to the gap between effect or preset switching, im sure that fade in could be reduced and improve the overall experience and minimize the latency, im not sure if you detected that in any of your tests, but it would be interesting in see if Valeton at least could do something there. Thanks!

[@monstermania...]

Thanks Leo for this updated latency comparison. It’s great to see that the GX-100 has the same low latency as the GT-1000. Your work is excellent and very much appreciated!

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

You are welcome and I'm super happy that you have found the video useful!!

[@giuliodanelon6945]

Unfortunately, Boss metal distortions are trash. Can anyone explain why?

[@jorgeband1111]

Hi Leo, Latency is very important, in my case affects very much to my playing. Thanks for making this great video ! , very helpful

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

You are welcome and I'm happy that you like the video!!!

[@aaronwalker5493]

I can't thank you enough for everything you do! You deserve way more subscribers than this.

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Thank you so much for such an amazing compliment!!!

[@peterfindorff6891]

Thanks Leo for your intensive and exact work, this video is an eye opener. It´s always good to get infos about gear from your videos.

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

You are welcome, I'm happy that you find the video useful!!!

[@jesuzleonardo]

Hi Leo, I was going to buy hotone ampero 2 or Pod Go, now I will go for separate pedals, thank you so much for explaining this topic as well as for making all this hard work for the community.

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Hi, let me just say that after the video Ampero has update the firmware and improved the latency. For more info you can check out this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hKqzfKSFfb-Ym80 Thank you!

[@arthuralexander4687]

Thanks a lot for the video. Huge amount of work done for addressing the very important issue. 🤘

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

You are welcome and I'm really happy to have been of some help!!!!

[@rubenmedina5050]

Thank you Leo, I have Valeton GP100 & GP200 and I'm happy with both units, hope future firmware updates improve the latency 🤘🎸

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Hi Ruben, thank you for sharing!!!

[@dddddddd9870]

you mean 3,3ms is too much?

[@gallp13]

Wonderful video. Full of useful information presented in a professional and charming manner. Thank you Leo.

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Thank you so much!!! I'm super happy that you like the video!!!

[@Dupdopy]

Huge work done here, sir! Thank you for the insight!

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

You are welcome, I'm happy that you like the video!

[@neocampus9043]

Great work, Leo, that is super helpful! I am also one of those nerds who measures the latency of every digital device I buy because I am, in fact, pretty sensitive to it. It's good to see, too, that for those 2 components we had in common (Line 6 Helix, Boss GT1000) we are in +- 0.1 ms (!) agreement. In case anybody is interested: I found that at a total latency of 12 ms I notice that something is "different", above 14ms I start feeling disconnected. (I am more tolerant to latency, though, when I play in a band than when I am at home hearing only the guitar.) The total latency I have mentioned includes approx. 6ms for the sound to travel to my ears (distance of ~2m), leaving 6-8 ms for digital components before it starts to bother me. Please forgive me for all that number crunching, I am a physicist, after all ... ;-)

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Thank you so much, I'm happy that the video has been of some help! Thank you also for sharing those numbers....very interesting indeed!!!

[@razznote7586]

One of the better replies here right now. We may now introduce the term "Latency Budget", the delay limit before you start to notice latency (or disconnectedness).

[@giuliodanelon6945]

Unfortunately, Boss metal distortions are trash. Can anyone explain why?

[@Neuroanalisis]

​@@giuliodanelon6945I don't think they are, they get a bad rep from people that don't know how to eq them properly. The metal zone is basically a meme, but you can make it sound great if you know what you are doing.

[@giuliodanelon6945]

​@@Neuroanalisis The pedalboard's gain channel simulations are trash.

[@AlexWBKK]

Wow. What a test. Thanks a lot! Exactly what i was looking for.

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

You are welcome and I'm happy that you like the test!

[@jjadams1000]

Great video! I have the Nux MG30 and the Ampero MP 100. I haven’t noticed any latency in either units and am pleased the MG30 rated so highly, especially as it’s sort of a budget-priced modeler. Thanks for providing all this info…

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Hi George , you are welcome and thank you for sharing! yes the difference is hard to notice….

[@scprojack83]

Hi George, which would you recommend me between mg30 and ampero for the quality of the simulations? I am very undecided between the two ... thanks!

[@jjadams1000]

@@scprojack83 I’m leaning towards the MG30. Both units are great.

[@svenson745]

very extensive comparison, thank you so much for your effort!

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

You are welcome and I'm really happy that you like the video!!!

[@JamesJLaRue]

Excellent work. Noone else is providing this information.

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Thank you so much, I'm really happy that you like the video!!!

[@flyguyty33]

Thank you for your hard work. I’ve just recently decided to indulge into newer multi effects pedals since they have really progressed.

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

You are welcome Taylor, I'm happy to have been of some help!

[@AdrianoMariot]

Suggestion! Make a video about latency on those digital amps, like blackstar, boss katana and line 6. I always have the filling that they don't play the same as the analog ones. I love the way you put your content on videos, very objective and don't waste in comments... Keep up 💯 🎉🎉

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Thank you so much, I'm really happy that you appreciate the videos! Yes, it would be interesting...even if so far I don't own those amps...maybe in the future... Thanks!

[@markpeam8549]

Wow - thanks for all that hard work. 10ms is no good for me, but anything under 5ms works fine. Interesting to see MX5 and Gigboard give different results - I thought it was the same processor/etc, as with the Pedlaboard.

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Hi Mark, thank you for sharing! Please, take into consideration that the Ampero Stomp II can be improved a lot in terms of latency using IRs and not the internal Cabs, that seem to require a lot of processing power. Thank you!

[@Serkan.Korkmaz]

@@LeoGibsonGtr Hi Leo I thinking you give wrong answer. He asking about Headrush. Headrush Mx5 and Headrush Gigboard completely same processor and electronics how can be different results ?

[@juancarlosprevostzarate7077]

I tried pairing my mooer ge250 even with my iPad running amplitube 4 and connecting through iRig HD2 in FX loop for that lovely Dimebag Darrel tone... And it was pretty comfortable to play and nice sounding.... Now with your test I know the low latency of the mooer ge250 helps a lot and so I am ready to buy a one Tonex One for a very affordable great sounding rig... Thank you very much Leo!!

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

You are welcome and thank you for sharing your experience!

[@jmann6830]

Hi Leo, the comparisons you provide for pedals, particularly this range are fantastic. Along with this and the other reviews of these units I purchased the Line 6 HX stomp. Other review sites were referenced during my research, but yours helped seal the deal. Great Job . Oh , let not forget your considerable skill as a guitarist. Thanks Leo !

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

You are welcome, I'm super happy to have been of some help!!! Thank you for letting me know and for sharing your final choice!

[@deigonz]

i just unboxed a GX100 today. i don't mind latency too much, but i did not expect it to rank so high up on the chart. I guess Boss's A.I.R.D. tech is not hype, but the real deal.

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Hi, thank you for sharing!

[@jhellert1]

No manufacturer makes a multi FX unit that can switch between two completely unrelated presets as fast as a Boss GT unit. Everything is always as seamless as stomping a single Boss pedal. That's been true for at least 20 years. Fractal Audio's tones in the FM3 blow the doors off everyone else's on that list but its switching speed can be problematic. That's why there are so many videos about workarounds to the problem on KZbin.

[@giuliodanelon6945]

Unfortunately, Boss metal distortions are trash. Can anyone explain why?

[@MrX-tv7mh]

Thanks for this Leo, it's so hard getting real world measurements from the Manufacturers themselves. If you have a live setup and are using fx loops for favourite fx it can quickly add up, add in a wireless transmitter and they can become unplayable 🤕 You're the consummate go-to guy for all things 'guitar'' 👌

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Hi, thank you so much, I'm really happy to have been of some help!!! Thank you also for sharing your findings!

[@acasadiluca]

Ciao Leo. A parte il fatto che per questo video meriti il nobel per la pace..... 👍 Detto questo... Sono molto contento di vedere il mio iridium sul podio e estremamente sorpreso da alcune posizioni della classifica! Non sono molto sensibile alla latenza (se non davvero pesante). Direi quindi che nel 2022 per me è tutto sopportabile. Di sicuro però questo video aiuterà tanti indecisi... Quindi sei stato davvero grande!

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Grazie mille! sono contento che il video ti piaccia! Concordo con te....sono tutti accettabili! Grazie ancora!

[@guitaristinterrupted3558]

Wow just wow! You take the cake as always! Keep up the good work!

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Thank you, really appreciated!!!

[@picksalot1]

I find that latency around 6ms or higher affects my playing, but I don't notice it below 4ms. I have an HX Stomp, and I don't notice any latency on it, and I don't use any IRs. The HX Stomp was listed in your chart, but you didn't announce its latency. It looks like it was probably around 1.8-1.9ms. Please let me know. I hadn't really thought about latency within a Modeler, as I had never noticed it in my old Boss Gt-6 or in my current HX Stomp, and had assumed it was a non-issue. So, your video was very interesting, and I was quite surprised at the high latency rates of some of the Modelers. I appreciate the time it must have taken to conduct this interesting and thorough test. Thanks 👍 On an unrelated topic, I saw something that you might find useful on your beautiful Archtop. There was a recent video on the 5 Watt World channel featuring Tim Lerch called "Teles and L-5s" in which he used "Rubber Grommets" on the strings in front of the tailpiece of his L5 to deaden unwanted string vibrations behind the Bridge. He talks about them at about 58 minutes into the video. They are are much more elegant looking solution to wrapping something through or around the strings behind the Bridge. I plan on getting them for my Archtop, as they they look to be an inexpensive and effective solution available from hardware stores. 😉

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Ah... you are right...I didn't announce the latency of the HX Stomp...I'm sorry...it's around 2ms... Thank you for sharing the video...I actually use a handkerchief....which is for sure not elegant...😀....even if I'm so used to it...that I miss it when removed...😀

[@rderfa]

Awesome video!!! Thanks for sharing this data. It is invaluable information. Cheers!

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

You are welcome and I'm very happy that you appreciate the video!!!!

[@juliensamara3857]

Tank you very much ! I was hesitating about boss fx 100, it was important for me in live situation 🙏

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

You are welcome and I'm happy to have been of some help!

[@maxwellalmeida7299]

Leo's channel is a wonderland for gear nerd like me

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Thank you soooooo much!!!!!

[@KeberMaknaan]

Hi Leo. you do crazy hardwork with high values offer. thank you for making this video. lets it be known that latency is definitely vital issue in digital products… coming from analog, pod go (with 3ms+) can be quite annoying. i feel the need to come closer to 1ms… fast and furious! (yet many products struggle in latency over 3ms yet charging so expensive… they are shameless companies, supplying bad experience gears)

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

You are welcome and I'm really happy that you find the video valuable!!! Thank you also for sharing your experience!

[@anantsaxena02]

Thanks for this Leo! I tried the HX Stomp and Strymon Iridium before deciding to purchase the NuX Amp Academy as it was at the price point I preferred. I am sensitive to latency and was worried about my choice (still waiting for delivery) if I compromised on a 'quality' feature like latency. This took away much anxiety, hope the Amp Academy lives up to this and other features you highlighted in your review! Cheers from Toronto :)

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

You are welcome, and I hope to have been of some help!

[@yairkozo9117]

You have very useful content! Thank you Leo!

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Thank you so much for such amazing compliment that really makes me happy!!!

[@bitdevice]

Great content, thanks Leo! I'm happy with my GE250.

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Thank you, I'm happy that you like the video!

[@JuanHoya]

Finally somebody addresses the elephant in the room. You may look the other way but...a latency of 5+ms is very much a problem. Thanks a bunch!

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

You are welcome and I'm happy that you appreciate the video!!

[@PlayFloyd_IN]

Amazing! Thanks for the video, Leo!

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

You are welcome, I'm happy that you like the video!

[@PlayFloyd_IN]

@@LeoGibsonGtr - I'm pursuing my master's degree in data science at City, University of London and topics such as machine learning, digital signal processing, neural computing and computer vision are fascinating to me. What the guys at Mooer, line6, Nux and boss have done over the years is remarkable.

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Yes, I do agree... Thank you for sharing your experience!

[@janluszczek1223]

Great video, as usual. Thanks for adding an important metric to the choices on the market. In case no one has said it (and I did not look through the comments), it's pronounced ley-ten-cy, kind of like the title of the song "Layla" by Derek and the Dominoes.

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Hi Jan, thank you I'm happy that you like the video! Thank you also for your "English correction" !

[@georgesabitpol]

I have had helix, fm3 , mooer 300 and boss gt1000. Of the lot the ones I enjoyed playing the most were in order the gt1000, the mooer , the fractal and the helix. Seems latency is an important one for me.

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Hi, thank you for sharing!!! Interesting findings!

[@mevlutmertcil6105]

how does it feel? people say it affect the playing dynamics. the instant response seems to make people perceive the sound as if it is coming from an amp. is that true? compared to low latency processor, the higher latency processor feels like a dull machine, or so people write on the internet. how is your experience among so many modelers?

[@dannysullivan3951]

Thank your very much. Great info for us latency sensitive types.

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

You are welcome and I'm happy that you appreciate the video!

[@RaphaBraga]

Great video ! Thanks for sharing this process you’re great !

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

You are welcome and I'm really happy that you like the video!!! Thank you!

[@arale2k]

Thanks!

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

You are welcome!

[@Aletheia_Z]

Great tests! thanks for this info as most reviewers skip this vital information

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Hi, yes, almost nobody talks about latency...but for some of us is a pretty important info... Thank you!

[@literalghost929]

Very interesting! It would also be interesting to compare the latency given different effects; it's possible for instance that if you introduced a distortion, delay, chorus, compressor, etc., some of the less powerful units might have more latency that the units with the more powerful DSPs. But yeah that becomes much harder to compare as all the effects differ in different units, so ex; out of the 12 Helix compressors, some might be faster/slower than others, but at the same time demand more power; be of higher quality... Making direct comparisons much more difficult...

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Thank you, I'm happy that you have found the video useful! Yes, that's a good point and actually I'm currently doing some follow up videos to check out also the latency of the other effects. For instance here you can check out one of them: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pJemmH-VgqyHadE Thank you!

[@everennui1]

Holy shit! This is MASSIVE! You're literally the best!

[@everennui1]

Man! I have the Stomp II. That's so sad. I'll never get those milliseconds back.

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Please take into consideration that with IRs the response time is much quicker. Thank you!

[@razznote7586]

The quality of BOSS products, demonstrated from durability to build quality and now to latency is stellar. Some features that are being overlooked, always looking for quantity and other features.

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Thank you so much for sharing.

[@teknical100]

Excellent as ever Leo. Thank you.

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

You are welcome, I'm happy that you like the video!

[@dtrietsch]

Thanks, Leo! This is something I've wondered about for a long time, because I *really* wanted to use a Helix with headphones, but I had to let it go because the latency. This also explains why I don't have a problem w/ the Strymon Iridium. Thanks again! Cheers!

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

You are welcome Dan, and I'm happy to have been of some help!

[@lucasbelloni]

Thank you for such unique content. Great video.

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

You are welcome, I'm happy that you like the video!!

[@IamMusicNerd]

I would love to see where the Boss GT-1 would be. It’s a low cost budget portable unit, but Boss clearly makes very low latency products. So it might be the best value one out there.

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Hi, unfortunately I don't have a GT 1, therefore I can't tell. Thank you for your message and your suggestion!

[@blackmanx5845]

Thank you very much for this Leo, what an incredible video subject and comparisons. Personally, I am very sensitive to latency and it used to bug me to no end back in the days of low CPU power when trying to pile on the guitar effects and playing "real-time" (cough), while recording. I suppose that our brains are able to compensate for this while playing over time, meaning you get used to it and don't even realize you are playing ever so slightly, ahead of the beat. I wonder, since most reviewers have a short time to review new units, the lower latency units may be more "comfortable" to play and in the human brain it's rolled into the overall "sensation" of the reviewers experience. This brings me to the Boss GX-100 and it's many favorable reviews. So many reviewers could not pinpoint why they liked the unit so much even though there are better modeling units out there. Granted it does have a lot going for it, but I am wondering if the nature of it's low latency played into this. I do have a GX-100 and love it for so many reasons, but I don't have other units to compare it with. Your thoughts?

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Hi, thank you so much, I'm happy that you like the video!!! It's for sure an interesting topic....there is a very subjective and personal way of choosing gear, I mean I would say that it's like a guitar...you may test many of them and you may find that one stand out, but you don't know exactly the reason why...In my experience, the modellers I like the most are the ones that better manage the dynamic range of my touch..I mean the ones that can give me back the nuances of how I pick the string, how I incline the pick, how strong or soft I play...we put so much effort practicing and trying to express emotion with the way we play, that we need modellers able to respond to our touch in a proper way. To me latency is not an issue anymore with modern modellers: I love the Ampero Stomp II as I love the BOSS GX 100, because they are both able to respond pretty well to my touch. And after this test I'm even more sure that latency is not a problem for me...obviously this is totally personal, but for some of us latency could be the number one thing to search for, and therefore what your are saying could be absolute right..I mean they can feel, maybe unconsciously, that a modeller is better, as it respond quicker to their touch. Thank you once more!

[@blackmanx5845]

@@LeoGibsonGtr Thank you sir for your response. Agreed, it could be very subjective, and putting your finger on the "why" is as elusive as it's not the guitar, but the player. These are things that fascinate me since it borders on the intangible zone when it comes to music and playing the guitar. I guess we are strange creatures as players, I mean people that really notice, or care about the difference. Kinda funny when you think about it, the fuss we make but the 99% of the others, listeners, would never know the difference. I really enjoy your videos and please keep on keeping on!

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Thank you so much, I'm super happy that you enjoy the videos!!!

[@samuelpeinado1267]

Before buying my GT-1000 I tried all the high end modelers. I went with the GT-1000 because it felt the best. It felt the most real, and immediate. This was over 3 years ago, so it’s nice to see that this wasn’t just snake oil and wishes. Also it’s smaller than the others and has a built in expression pedal. I’m still happy with it about 3 years later.

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Hi, thank you so much for sharing your experience!

[@blessedheavyelements8544]

Damn man! Respect! Best Regards and Best Wishes!

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Thank you so much!!!

[@zaporoshti3392]

Boss GX-100 latency is based on MONO signal. The effect loop is MONO. Therefore, the only stereo effect is due to the effects on the unit itself which probably has some shifting algorithm.

[@mpp7836]

Good job! Thanks from Brazil.

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

You are welcome and thank you!!!

[@jacobpittman1996]

Thank you, Leo Gibson, with your doctorate of tone, once again, you have brought reason to a world of bias and snobbery (😋) through your well-planned comparison. Boss on top was not a huge surprise. In 2002 I started using the Roland VG-88 for work in the orchestra-pit. Boss-Roland has been doing ad/da conversion, creating and fighting latency since the late 1970s. What I am curious to know - what is Leo’s favorite of the 23? Cheers, Leo! Thank you for your detail.

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Thank you Jacob, your compliments really make me happy!!! Well...interesting question about 2023...I have to think about it...I have huge expectations about the BluGuitar Amp X....I can't wait to try out one unit....we will see... Thank you once more!!!

[@SerkanBerksoy]

Thanks for the great comparison, I am watching all your videos also nice playing. I had Helix LT for 2 years. Now I have the Kemper Stage. Really prefer my Kemper Stage over Helix LT. I don't think I ever recognized any differences. Also don't really care with direct tube amp input versus Kemper Stage connected to return of tube amp. Those small differences disappear during band practice or gigging.

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Thank you, I'm super happy that you like the videos and the playing! Thank you also for sharing your opinion and experience!

[@rockstarjazzcat]

Interesting. Internal signal path more or less matters. The higher priced units compromising around 3ms is probably not coincidental. Nice to see Boss pushing the envelope. FM9 would be interesting to see in there. Cheers Leo, Daniel

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Thank you Daniel, I'm happy that you find the video interesting!

[@mojekh]

Excellent comparison❤

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Thank you!!!!

[@boshi9]

Thanks, Leo! It’s possible for an impulse response to introduce latency, as a property of the IR file itself rather than the device doing the processing. Say, if you’re miking the cab from a distance when shooting the IR, there’s going to be some built-in delay that corresponds to the time it took the sound wave to travel through the air. This may potentially be an explanation for the result you’ve observed when testing Ampero. I’m wondering if this affects other devices on the list as well, just to a lesser extent.

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Hi Victor, I've check out almost any device comparing custom IR to internal cabs: there are differences, but very very thin. The Ampero Stomp II was the only device with such a big jump in latency: the internal cab introduces more latency that a custom IR. In my opinion that's because Ampero is making some calculations that are pretty heavy on the CPU, therefore introducing latency. Please notice that I have tested the signal with just the amp block, and it was very quick, then I have tested amp + cab and it was much slower...therefore it's the cab that is introducing latency. Let me also say that adding digitally delay for the wave to travel in the air would be something wrong, as the output of the modeller has to be sent to a speaker, and then the speaker produces the wave that travel to your ears... Thank you

[@boshi9]

@@LeoGibsonGtr It’s impressive how much work you’ve done testing all possibilities. My hypothesis was just that - a hypothesis. It could indeed be some sort of different algorithm running with built-in cabs on Ampero, or perhaps higher resolution IR or interpolation between multiple IRs. And yeah, you’re making a good point, though there use cases when you want that baked-in delay in an IR file. For example, you could mix a standard IR with a “room IR” to add some room flavor to your sound, and the latter IR will need to have the property I’m talking about in order to produce the correct result as it’s meant to add room reflections that come with a delay.

[@JohnShalamskas]

On the more expensive modellers, latency is most likely dominated by the conversion from analog to digital at the input, and from digital to analog at the output of the modeller. Their DSP chips are very fast, and the algorithms employed are highly optimized for low latency.

[@frankjerke]

It would be intersting to see in this list also some amps , like the spark 40, spark mini, nux mighty space,boss katana,.. as they are basicly multieffects with a speaker, but able to connect to the computer. Best wishes from Berlin

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Hi, thank you for sharing and for your suggestion!

[@chusssMusic]

Great video as usual. What about Zoom G6? Is it the same like G11?

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Hi, thank you! I think yes, but I'm not 100% sure...

[@eugengrabovsky3597]

Latency test, wow! Extremely cool material! What do you think about latency on most popular audio interfaces? Which is the best choice?

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Thank you so much! I would say that I prefer the interfaces with internal DSP (like my Apollo twin or Apollo X16)...having internal DSP dedicated to audio processing, they typically allow to reduce latency and still use some effects while recording. Nevertheless I have never measure latency of audio interfaces....as I think it could also depend on the computer we are using.

[@devilontheurn]

Thanks a lot! This is very informative and useful to us. Great work!!! Merci👍🏼

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

You are welcome, I'm happy that you found the video useful!

[@Dabugra]

It’s great review absolutely! Thanks a much, Leo 🤝 I surprised understand what it’s discomfort problem for me, when start try ir play with units, but this parameter unreal to found, ups)) I’m ordered “core” and only thinking- may be better was take “gx”… wherever I saw, in gt a loooong fx chain without actual length, where gx seem very useful. In other parameters they both feeling sound great in nowadays…

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Thank you, I'm happy to have been of some help!

[@chris29308]

Excellent video!, very informative.

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Thank you so much Chris, really appreciated!

[@cyclone159]

thanks for this i was planning on buying the Boss GX-100. Now I'm definitely going to.

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Hi, you are welcome and I'm happy to have been of some help!

[@andy_J_11]

Great video! Thank you for showing such a long list. By the way, am important correction to your English: it's 'sensitive to latency', not 'sensible to latency.'

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

You are welcome, I’m really happy that you appreciate the video! Thank you also for your correction!

[@andy_J_11]

@@LeoGibsonGtr No worries!

[@HeartcoreMitRA]

This channel is absolutely brilliant! I'd suggest you to look at quite an interesting topic of a pocket modellers, such as Mustang Micro, Nux Mighty Plug, Boss Pocket GT and Mooer Prime P1. I got myself a Nux thing and absolutely happy with it, it sounds better than my POD HD500X and you can take it anywhere with thing like portable JBL speaker(although lot of them has AUX latency and i had to use SoundCore Motion+ wich has no DSP on AUX channel), i even plug it into my car's audio and play sometimes at the parking lot.

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Thank you so much for such a great compliment, that really makes ma happy!!! Yes, this is an interesting topic...actually there is a new device coming out that I can not reveal yet...and then a comparison with these mini devices would be pretty interesting...thank you once more!

[@luckyno888]

Subscribed! Keep up the good work.

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Thank you so much, your sub really means a lot to me!!!!

[@tgchan]

THANK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU/ You and Jim Lill are one of the most important people in the guitar tech world. No one else gets so deep and comprehensive with their research. Thank you so much for your hard work once again/ Also what a nice tie hanging from Mesa :) - is it from your son/daughter?

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

YOU ARE WELCOOOOOME...😀👍 Thank you so much, this is really a great compliment!!! Yes, the tie is a present from my son ... 👍 Thank you once more!

[@tgchan]

@@LeoGibsonGtr I had a chance to help out making similar ties for dads with little fellas :) It's nice to see that other countries are crafting those things for the best dads round world/

[@marcocardona8911]

Great video!

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Thank you Marco!!! Super appreciated!

[@gordospeti]

It is remarkable how much work you usually put in your vids! :) I have been hesitating between a modelling multieffect and an audio interface with PC software about latency. A better audio interface has 5 ms latency, and as I see the latency of modelling multieffects is very similar unluckily. Maybe 5 ms vs 3 ms. This difference is not that big. Thanx for the test!

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

You are welcome and I'm really happy that you find the videos useful. Thank you also for sharing your findings!

[@thedirtyboulevard1805]

Fantastic work Leo! I guess latency can also be a big part of the delay or the time taken to load and respond to a patch when stomping from one patch to another. Which brings me to my question. My needs are simple, I just want to stomp through several patches when performing live as a solo busker, without missing a beat, but I recently found a Zoom G1Four had almost no discernible delay when stomping between patches whereas the Ampero II was unusable. Both were tried with the ‘same’ effects chain - drive-> amp ->cabinet->reverb. Your comments would be appreciated!

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Hi, thank you, I'm happy that you like the video! The type of latency discussed in this video, is related to the gap between the time you hit a note and the time you actually hear the note. The latency between patches is a different story and I should do another video about it, as I noticed a lot of interest. In my opinion there are two things that can "alleviate" this problem: the first one is the scene management (for instance line 6 or NUC manage scene), where the pedalboard allows to change some parameter without gaps, or the trails / spillover, where the time effects basically don't stop when you switch presets. The scene management function is more rare, where the trails/ spillover is more common. To me the trail is essential and finally if it is available, is almost enough...but obviously this is my point of view. Thank you!

[@Pan_Kosmi]

It may one of the reasons i love boss and strymon... but if you load IR as you said to headrush (not a big fun but i love the looper) or other multiffects with big latency you can make it work.. you can still feel it a bit.. it may works better with IRs and less effects :) Thank you for the good job Leo

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

You are welcome!

[@EvanKenobi]

Few years ago I decided to buy a multifx/ modeller. It was at time when GT-1000 showed up in shops for the first time. I compared it to the Helix. The difference was massive. Helix felt like a plugin amp sim in a DAW, while GTK is as fast as real tubes and capacitors (which also need some time to fully saturate).

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Hi, thank you for sharing your experience and your findings!

[@marcinczyz9159]

Wow, the amount of work this must have taken. Much appreciated, Leo. The results are quite surprising, but I think that the majority of players couldn't feel a latency of even 10ms. It is still very little. I wonder what would be the actual threshold of latency, when it would start becoming a problem for the avarage player. I suspect it would have to be closer to 50-100ms.

[@LeoGibsonGtr]

Hi Marcin, well even for me 10ms are not a problem, but some of us are more sensible to latency...so for some of us could be a problem...nevertheless, I think we have to find the right spot between latency and quality...I mean the more you push the algorithms and the converters..the more quality you have and the more you are gonna require in terms of processing power and therefore latency increases...and vice versa...the right spot seems to be around 3 ms, as QC, Fractal and Kemper are all almost there...just suppositions... Thank you!

[@stevenvandemsky7290]

I don’t know if you can hear differences in latency below 10 ms, but I‘m sure you can feel it while playing the guitar. I think I can feel the difference between tube amps and and a simple single channel non master volume amp feels better, more direct and immediate than a multi channel amp with all the bells and whistles like FX send, master volume, graphic eq and such. A „latency“ above let’s say 50 ms wouldn’t be called latency anymore, as it would be a delay, that anybody, even your grandma could hear.

[@Leo_ofRedKeep]

10 ms are like standing 3.43m away from the amplifier. Step back and see how far you can go before it becomes a problem to you.