Why a misty mirror led to many marriages

[@NadirAgha]

I'm with Tom on this. This looks like one of the fake "origin stories", which is created well after the thing (in this case app) itself is made

[@lateralcast]

Here's the direct quotes from the creator: www.cnbc.com/2017/01/06/how-a-tinder-founder-came-up-with-swiping-and-changed-dating-forever.html

[@NadirAgha]

@@lateralcast thanks for the source ✌

[@Schmidtelpunkt]

@@davidanderson5310 The thing is not about inventing it, but to base the app on the gesture. It looks like something one would get to in brainstorming: what is an intuitive way to use the (young) device the app is supposed to be used on, binding app and device and setting it apart from old and unsexy devices? The next question then was "What narrative is sexier than this question - what feels intimate and can be swiped?" and the answer was bathroom mirror.

[@xCorvus7x]

This is also a very spurious causal relation.

[@fariesz6786]

plus maybe Badeen's own narrative (as in how he remembers it happening) is this story, we may never know.. object truth is really hard to find

[@kentslocum]

I thought it was because 250,000 Americans are trying to wipe condensation off the screens of their smartphones, and accidentally match.

[@literallyjustgrass]

This is my headcanon now

[@Vinemaple]

I'm just happy that Tom's irritated incredulity about the Tinder origin story made it onto KZbin... "I don't believe that for a SECOND!" is now one of my all-time favorite Tom Scott quotes! Also, what they all didn't seem to catch was that this statistic is for Americans who GET married, not who STAY married. Everything I've heard agrees that marriages based on dating app matches are far less likely to last than the average of all marriages.

[@SolomonUcko]

How much of that is just due to the users being younger, though? Or in general, some factor that causes both dating app use and shorter marriages, rather than dating app use itself causing shorter marriages?

[@lancepeterson7997]

@@SolomonUcko Like, the people that would use something like that are usually not wanting to be commited in a serious relationship? (Generally)

[@ishashka]

​@@SolomonUckoIIRC age isn't that big of a factor when it comes to divorces. What is one though is the number of sexual partners. Even sleeping with only your future spouse before marriage increases the likelihood of divorce, but with every partner the risk goes up drastically. And tinder is primarily used for hookups

[@Martykun36]

@@ishashka I mean there's a high correlation between waiting until marriage and being overly religious and not ever admitting divorce as an option. I would guess people who meet on dating apps live in larger cities, move around more, know more people and are more educated (read it as less religious), and all of those sound like they increase the likelihood of divorce.

[@xtremeiceman]

So great to see Jenny Draper!

[@TomOConnor-BlobOpera]

Funnily enough, I had an email this weekend from ULC saying I've been ordained for 13 years now.

[@macdjord]

I wish the video titles didn't sometimes give away a twist of the question that doesn't actually show up until halfway through.

[@curtismmichaels]

I was ordained through ULC (Universal Life Church) for $1.00 in the late 90's and have officiated dozens of marriages. I did it because I could perform same-sex marriages before the US allowed them, but I've married all sorts of adult couples. Their philosophy is that humans are ordained by virtue of being children of God. I met my husband when he moved here to meet a guy on Myspace and moved here. They had no chemistry. When I met him, we did. We're at 14 years and going strong. I was 44 when we married, btw.

[@GryphLane]

Brilliant to see Geoff Marshall on here!

[@anttibjorklund1869]

I listened to the podcast version earlier and this bit was funny in that. Also: Yay, JDraper!

[@dragonboyjgh]

Could I ask you stop including hints in the thumbnail or title? I enjoy guessing along with the cast, and the title here gives away something they don't catch on to until 3 minutes into the 9 minute clip.

[@theadamabrams]

@@simon_patterson Because there needs to be _something_ in the title and thumbnail. They could say say "Episode #38" or whatever, but that's quite boring and wouldn't not bring in anyone who has the video recommended to them (which is how I found Lateral initially). Usually the titles pick on some ultimately-fruitless part of the conversation. I am surprised this title didn't involve "moldy" (incorrect but it was discussed) instead of "misty" (which was actually important to the right answer).

[@korganrocks3995]

@@theadamabrams "Why a bathroom fan led to many marriages" would work just as well and doesn't contain spoilers.

[@ForeverHobbit]

@@theadamabrams say "how a broken bathroom fan led to many marriages" You spoil the question, not the answer

[@PaulCotterCanada]

Just part of the question would do. "A mirror lead to 125 US marriages last year". I watch Tom on a TV attached to my computers, not interested in a podcast. The picture of the mirror gave part of the story away. Didn't intuit the Tinder bit as I don't use it.

[@lateralcast]

Hard to illustrate as a thumbnail, though.

[@YasuTaniina]

My parents are in their 60's, and my mom told me decades ago that someone she went to school with was one of the first people to meet and marry their wife online. As far as I know from what she told me a few years ago, they're still happily married. Because of that digital courtship never weirded me out. Granted, I personally never did online or app dating. I just didn't feel the need

[@Archgeek0]

As a fellow early millennial (slightly younger than Tom), I concur with that "ouch". Also, as for the surprise at them working that well, they really don't! You may wish to look up divorce rates cross-referenced with the app. I forget the number but I remember I found it depressing. It's almost like a short blurb and an over-produced photo make a for a shallow and ineffectual way to find people that really match up long-term. (Moreover, I here there's some kind carp issue?)

[@Vinemaple]

Agreed, I was surprised that none of them knew that!

[@desaturated-firefox]

I don't know, I feel like by the time you get married you should know each other really well. If two people don't, and only find out once they're married that they're a bad match, then that's not the fault of the app they met on. If the divorce rates are higher, it might be because they don't have a common circle of friends or other social obligation that would incentivize them staying together. Maybe they match well in terms of personality but come from really different backgrounds, so there's less social pressure to "make it work". Just speculation on my part though.

[@Blue-Maned_Hawk]

Carp?

[@Archgeek0]

@@Blue-Maned_Hawk an oblique reference to catfish.

[@EricaGamet]

In my head, the question was that it happened whenever he turned on his bathroom fan. Note to self, don't watch these when first waking up and listen to the question carefully. Also, I'm with Tom (and much older than either Tom or Geoff) and don't like the idea of dating apps for myself. I tried them a few times and each time I end up deleting them. I feel like I'm shopping for a person and that just seems very wrong haha!

[@Queleb1]

Wow so crazy to see Annie on this! Thanks for uploading

[@randrazor]

I've only watched occasionally, but this group is one of my favorite

[@comicus01]

Geoff! I've been watching him for a few years now (and I'm American) And I just discovered Jenny Draper's channel 2 weeks ago. Very cool to see 3 people I like on here, now I have to learn about the other lady whom I don't know at all.

[@davidshi451]

I remember seeing a pre-pandemic picture of a completely empty speed dating event! Even before 2020 it was outmoded. I guess using dating apps really is just easier 🤷‍♂

[@CrimsonKage]

Doesn't surprise me, Tinder makes me cringe, but speed dating is meme-level 'people actually do this? it's not a joke?' types of cringe. If I ever used it, I absolutely expect that, should I get a match, I'd absolutely refuse to meet anyone anyway, because it's too awkward.

[@pbe6965]

@@CrimsonKage I'm kind of the same, but I have friends' couples who found themselves through those apps, so maybe one day I'll put my prejudices behind me ...

[@JBLewis]

I think the new "speed dating" event is the "pet adoption event". We happened to go a tap room one evening when, unbeknowst to us, they were having a dog adoption event, and clearly the folks there were looking for more than just pups.

[@AbiGail-ok7fc]

I met my partner on a dating website (apps did not exist at the time) back in 2001. And I am old enough to be from the baby boomer generation. I have enough friends from around my age who met their partner on a dating site. You don't have to be 23 to not be surprised about that a quarter of the people marrying met on a datingsite/app.

[@57thorns]

I am with Tom on the myth aspect.

[@lateralcast]

Here's the creator's interview: www.cnbc.com/2017/01/06/how-a-tinder-founder-came-up-with-swiping-and-changed-dating-forever.html

[@ArdisMeade]

@@lateralcast I don't think anyone is saying you made it up. We just don't trust the creator in the slightest.

[@SamuraiGuy]

I didn't notice Annie the first time I saw this thumbnail, but now I'm so excited!

[@Olleetheowl]

I met my wife on a dating app. We have been married for eight years… I’m 70.

[@lateralcast]

Many congrats!

[@JohnUnit]

Wow this is my dream team of obscure knowledge internet dorks

[@ProfessorMAG]

I'm so glad that I don't need this sort of thing anymore. Online dating seems like such a scam, you have no way of knowing if the representation in any way matches the reality. How does one survive this system?

[@Martykun36]

sure but you literally just heard stats that it's commonplace and it works

[@literallyjustgrass]

It's just like those dating ads in the paper back in the day. It's just a way of finding people that are interested in dating, if the representation doesn't match up with reality, well, there won't be a second date. Obviously there's an added danger, but there always is when you go on a date with someone you barely know

[@zoefschildpad]

The number was too big for it, but my first thought was he was a state senator who had an accident in his bathroom and missed an important vote on gay marriage or common law marriage that only passed because he wasn't there. I think I read a story recently like that, though I think that was about abortion.

[@Vinemaple]

We needed that guess on this episode!

[@DeliveryMcGee]

On the gridiron huddle, before they'd just talk to each other far enough away that the other team couldn't hear. And they've kinda moved past it, with code phrases shouted as the line forms up, everybody has a chart of the codes on the inside of their forehead-sweat-mop armband.

[@SydMakesStuff]

You can get ordained in the Church of Dudeism for free and in almost every state in America you are legally allowed to perform marriages. I'm a Dudeist Priest but I've never performed a wedding because that more work than I can abide.

[@FiXato]

I love how the captions write 'mould' and 'mold' depending on if it's a British person speaking. 😅

[@ShawnGBR]

6:40 - my wife and I are Gen X, have been married for over 20 years, and we met on a pen pal website in the 1990’s. It’s more common than you may imagine!

[@bilalrasool1]

Amazing question.

[@fariesz6786]

i'm pretty much Tom's age -and thus a potential marriage partner- and i am in no way surprised about this. i mean i use grindr and romeo instead of tinder and i'm not using it to find a partner for life but honestly using any form of "dating-focussed social media" is in my eyes at least two orders of magnitude more valid an approach than to hook up with someone at a pub where at least one party is already completely wasted. only just had this when visiting Cologne from Munich where this one bloke seems to think we're in a long-distance relationship already and like.. we don't even really _know_ each other. at least on a dating app or social media you chat and build up a relationship in the broad sense of the word before trying to commit to a romantic one

[@carriebartkowiak]

This video had me grumpily trying to clean a persistent big smudge from my monitor, then finally figuring out it was some kind of smear on the white wall stripe to the left of Tom's face...(or maybe on the lens of his camera).

[@SamAronow]

I always swipe right when I see a friend. It's just polite.

[@UnixTMDev]

i love that the captioner uses the british/american spelling based on the accent of the speaker

[@besserwizard]

I love how every second question for some reason always leads to Tom saying "OUCH" because someone is commenting on his age

[@cuttwice3905]

One of my shirttail relatives met her husband in the Village Voice Personals back in the 1960's. She was in her upper 20s back then. I met the couple when I was 9.

[@ShadowDrakken]

I'm older than you Tom, and every good relationship I've had has been through a dating app, every bad one has been from meeting initially in-person.

[@DanielCooper1]

Universal Life Church Minister Checking in here - Have done 3 weddings. :D It's a solidly good feeling. And fun.

[@Heisenberdy]

I met my wife after just 3 days of using tinder Funny thing is we met through a glitch in tinder where you sometimes come across a profile from way across the globe even though you had your match settings at 50km max But she was actually 600+ km away But all worked out in the end regardless P.S. she was my first match and i was her's

[@lancepeterson7997]

7:55 I can only imagine someone's reaction finding Tom Scott on a dating app.

[@comradeluigi8631]

This is the first time with this show that I pretty much figured out the answer right in the beginning

[@McChes]

I met my now wife on a dating website in 2003, when we were both early 20s, and we know several other couples who did the same. It’s been going on for a long time.

[@joaoleite3433]

for some reason the first thing that came to my head was the song I'm yours by Json Mraz

[@dastm0]

Funnily enough, Jonathan Badeen also starred in a short film called The Proposal in 2008.

[@ndulmillenium]

I've never expected to see Geoff here

[@erictaylor5462]

7:20 On my next birthday, (December 30) I will be the same age my *GRANDPARENTS* were when I was born. The good news there, I was 30 when my grandfather passed away,

[@vaclav_fejt]

I thought this would be a "Will you marry me?" message written on the mirror with a greasy finger.

[@RupertReynolds1962]

I'm a 'Rev.' with the ULC. I don't remember why I did it, though :-)

[@kiro9291]

7:55 new tom scott plus video idea

[@anonnymowse]

My niece and nephew met their spouses on Tinder. I still think it's weird.

[@dawfydd]

Ladies and Gentlemen, How do we force Tom to use a dating app- do a video on it and dating. - by having him go on tinder dates. What is the process for this to happen.

[@mike7002]

Geoff! Great question. I'm wondering what diagram I am in with following Geoff and Tom? With apologies to the ladies who I don't know.

[@milksheihk]

I always thought Google was named that because that's what Googly eyes do, they google, as in so much information before your eyes that they google.

[@PiousMoltar]

What I took from this is Jenny and Tom should get married

[@davidioanhedges]

Ouch! ...

[@10thdoctor15]

I'm 26 and haven't used a dating app. Have thought about it, but can't be bothered. I'm with Geoff, people should go out and socialise.

[@Scorpius1122]

There was a site for Militant Agnosticism that you could get ordained on for free. I did it when I was a teenager.

[@ArdisMeade]

"and I don't think I ever will?" Says the man with multiple where he does new stuff

[@deolic]

I'm almost sure the script that Annie mentioned is a terrible idea - the algorithms are done in a way to prevent this and you see better profiles if you don't swipe right everyone.

[@camsy83]

I, too, love a little bit of alliteration - but the video title here is a slight spoiler for the answer. Not even mad, I couldn't have resisted the wordplay either

[@iamflipachip]

What's on her microphone...

[@vaclav_fejt]

Tom, you're not missing out. Tinder is for psychopaths.

[@JimC]

I'd be more inclined to believe the story if tinder animated the picture appearing with simulated swiping or fog dissipating.

[@allmybasketsinoneegg]

Did he swipe left or right for himself?

[@crazyjoe1540]

I can’t believe the depths of Wikipedia girl is younger than me (I’m not saying she looks old I just thought she was older dunno why)

[@mojosbigsticks]

Cor!

[@ann18o96]

I feel kindof bad for Tom, because I imagine dating and finding a partner isn't easy in his position. His reaction showed that he does seem to really care about it :(

[@desaturated-firefox]

Then again, he also seems like the kind of person who'd keep a relationship or a family out of the eye of the public (wisely so I'd say). Maybe he is married/dating and simply got reminded of the endboss of all living things.

[@sophiamarchildon3998]

Blind guess: well, the title of the video gives a big clue. I guess it blocked/revealed info in unintended ways (mist on the mirror). So gullible or way too involved people just assumed a proposal. But that's quite right on the nose to be the answer, is it? And my explanation is still vague as to why.

[@sophiamarchildon3998]

In retrospective: I was so off. I thought it would have been a simple matter of sharing a single picture or short video. It got out of hand (by the muddled misty message), and reached 250k people "accepting" the involuntary proposal.

[@darkshoxx]

Can we maybe stop putting clues in the Thumbnail or Title? I really like playing along 😥

[@toast_on_toast1270]

What's with the prejudice against dating app users? Considering how much societal interaction has been irrevocably moved online, seems a bit weird, almost prudish, to draw the line at dating.

[@el_es]

7:47 O.o

[@J.C...]

Nobody miswrote a check when they came up with Google. They misspelled googol when checking the domain name, Tom. Come on man.

[@meemkoo]

8:14 bro im too young for this dating apps are weird af

[@callabeth258]

My sister found her wife on tinder

[@markzambelli]

I will also never use a dating ap... a chloroform-soaked rag and a balaclava have never let me down yet😈🤪

[@desaturated-firefox]

Really not funny.

[@zwiadowca13]

Spoiler in the title...

[@drsbhs]

"of the 2 million American couples that marry in a typical year, 23% of them meet on a dating app, of which 27% of those 23% use Tinder." That's not 250,000. It's about 125,000.

[@lateralcast]

*points to the word "couples"*

[@ddbsiblings7265]

​@@lateralcastLMAOOO

[@tuxedobob2]

250,000 Americans get married every year? Damn, I got married once, and that was enough for me.

[@CatherineKimport]

"You're 18, go out and meet people in real life, don't use an app."

[@PaulCotterCanada]

My wife thinks I'm ADHD

[@colmwhateveryoulike3240]

Ehh... how do you think introverts formed relationships before the internet? We weren't just waiting around to fulfil our final form. Sometimes easier isn't best. Not dissing people who meet online but there are many ways it can be less than ideal from the psychology of overwhelming choice, to fomo and its effect on choosing to commit, to it being contrived based on one another's self-perception being the basis of first impressions, interferance with the natural order of getting to know people that we innately understand etc etc. Lots of reasons for introverts to use older fashioned methods based on going out into the world and pursuing interests with a comfortable number of others. Many introverts do best with extroverted partners, even though they wouldn't choose them as an online match while in their private comfort zone. Some of the healthiest marriages I know just wouldn't happen via online dating. Again, not saying it can't, or doesn't work. Just that it's a lot newer than successful introvert romance. 😜

[@2023skidoo]

And what percentage get divorced every year...

[@notthere83]

Oh come off it Tom. People have been using online dating probably since YOU were at university. But also, age isn't an acceptable excuse for pretty much anything that doesn't have to do with physical strength or health.

[@jordanle366]

ripperooni

[@ecchikitty1395]

I was way off. Thinking was a political figure blocking same sex marriage, got ill because of failed ventilation, and missed a critical voting session. Tinder is a much nicer story.

[@myladycasagrande863]

I guessed right away that it was something about a dating app, but didn't think about the swiping.

[@chillies4156]

Rip

[@tttITA10]

I am guessing something related to LGBT weddings, but I can't see what the bathroom or the mirror has to do with it.

[@MrMartinSchou]

Unless the "swipe to unlock" gesture wasn't invented before Tinder came up with it, this doesn't really hold water.

[@wilfriedklaebe]

OpenMoko had "swipe to unlock" in 2007.

[@Skippymabob]

That's not the story, the guy isn't claiming he came up with the gesture. They were making the app and wanted to find something more "emgaging" than just pushing buttons. He then (supposedly) got the idea cleaning his mirror

[@verkhvo]

imаgine seеing tоm cоme uр оn tindеr

[@PaulCotterCanada]

Like an old flame.

[@kenmahoney5255]

Yep we are some dumbass humans 😂

[@InservioLetum]

Yikes.... doesn't feel very official in anybody can just walk in.