Why overpay $1,000 for a phone?

Annie Rauwerda (@depthsofwiki on Twitter), J. Draper and Geoff Marshall face a question about a mispriced mobile.
LATERAL is a weekly podcast about interesting questions and even more interesting answers, hosted by Tom Scott. For business enquiries, contestant appearances or question submissions, visit www.lateralcas...
GUESTS:
Annie Rauwerda: / depthsofwiki
J. Draper: ‪@JDraper‬ / jdraperlondon
Geoff Marshall: ‪@geofftech2‬ / geofftech
HOST: Tom Scott.
QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe.
RECORDED AT: The Podcast Studios, Dublin.
EDITED BY: Julie Hassett.
GRAPHICS: Chris Hanel at Support Class. Assistant: Dillon Pentz.
MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com).
FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd.
EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott.
© Pad 26 Limited (www.pad26.com) / Labyrinth Games Ltd. 2023.

[@cheeseninja1115]

Just to make Tom feel even older. People born in 2005 can now vote this year

[@hairyneil]

2007 in Scotland!

[@johnbee7729]

Heck, that ain't old - I am still trying to figure out what Flappy Bird is.

[@PouLS]

People born in 2007 can vote this year too.

[@route2070]

Or that in the US, they can tell you are of drinking age just by seeing your birth year starts with a 19.

[@singerofsongs468]

@@route2070You’re a few years off for that one! I was born in 2000, which gave me the extra gift of an entire years’ worth of alarmed cashiers handing me back my ID lol

[@ch48_]

I love how every time Emojli comes up Tom just says "NEVER BUILD AN APP" like an automated response. I mean, to be fair, it's a good automated response

[@sponge1234ify]

"Hello, this is your automated build-an-app response; 'NEVER BUILD AN APP'. Good day!"

[@Megan4434]

Request for Tom and crew: Could you put what episode number each clip is from please? Some older episodes reference non-KZbin clips and there’s no easy way to find the exact episode

[@karolispigaga8219]

As soon as Annie said about the limited app, i knew what is the reason. great video as always Tom!

[@punor]

i thought this was about the i am rich app because that cost a thousand dollars too as i remember

[@packradtpackradt4581]

I'm listening to it in real time; I sit this out and remember like it was yesterday.

[@bjmand6236]

I knew what it was about when i read the title xD or at least was pretty sure

[@mowkikowski]

really enjoyed how tom illustrated how old he felt with an allusion from the 80s

[@lordtraust]

The look on Annie's face when she hears the highest score is priceless

[@narfharder]

Over nine thousand!!!

[@Epinardscaramel]

“I’m sorry this is how you had to find out!” 🤣🤣🤣

[@hadinossanosam4459]

Alternate title: "I regret being the host of this, Episode 2" xD

[@blindleader42]

As a late adopter (first mobile phone 2017), I've never heard of Flappy Bird. After hearing this edition of Lateral, I've _still_ never heard of Flappy Bird. edit: speaking of old age (I think). re: the opening question of the podcast: I've never been a musician, took some piano lessons before the first electronic piano was invented, So how is it that I looked down at my qwerty for about three seconds and said "F#".

[@beth12svist]

I've had mobile phones for a while, but got my first smartphone I think at the end of 2015, which means apps before that passed me by. And they still kind of do. Never heard of it, either, and much like you, I still don't know what it is. 😁

[@narfharder]

I waited for somebody to _pitch_ in "G flat".

[@singerofsongs468]

Oh man, I knew this one from the thumbnail question. I too was the perfect age to have experienced this event, and the other commenters describing the fallout pretty much nailed it. I remember in the wake of that app, the new obsession at my school became a game called Crossy Road(?) which was like infinite frogger. I also have been unable to get rid of the U2 album. I _hate_ that album. I don’t want to talk about it. Thinking about it actually ruins my whole mood.

[@TheDisplacerBeast]

Its like the ps4s they sold with PT

[@SakamotoIbuki]

It’s funny how quickly I got this just from the question alone, but to discover that it was 2014… I’m starting to feel my age

[@samguillen4529]

I used to do AQA - Any Question Answered - for a while. Where people would text in questions, and I’d type the answer. Easiest work ever!

[@kanedaku]

Flappy Bird. I never got if they would work properly on iOS, as when you sign out of your Apple ID apps wont work. Did the buyers continue to use the sellers ID?

[@fredoverflow]

0:50 I can see the "Blue" logo on the front of the microphone 😥 She is speaking into the _back_ of the microphone. The "Blue" logo is supposed to face the _speaker_ for optimal audio quality (and you should select the heart-shaped "cardioid" pickup pattern).

[@Yamzstoned]

initial guess from the title is flappy bird, perfect question for the older generation I think it’s a very topical one

[@milkycowboy]

i find this very funny considering i myself am gen z (i submitted the question) and sorta play tested it with my classmates (alongside many others) to determine which were good enough to send off lol.

[@OblivionWonderlust]

It took me 2 seconds to realise its flappybird

[@ALFIE19]

i contemplated selling my ipod touch when this happened

[@thardin1719]

I know someone who still has flappy bird on their phone. It doesn’t work (since they’ve gotten a new phone since 2014) but the icon is still on their phone and they refuse to delete it

[@vetleallum2965]

I figured out the answer as soon as Tom mentioned that it wasnt originally limited edition..😊

[@zacm.2342]

..Oh I got it as soon as she said "an app".

[@Joeseanag24]

Flappy Bird was a monumental event in our lives, and it was sadly cut short all too soon

[@dcltdw]

Okay, the outtakes compilation of "guests yanking Tom's chain": when does that come out? :D

[@Perfectkid197]

so glad tom get get rid of his iron lung now

[@PianoKwanMan]

I thought it was the game where you jump up as far as you can. Doodleboog or something Also, the ending is like Technical Difficulties winding Tom up

[@woodfur00]

Doodle Jump

[@Ghiaman1334]

Oh I thought it was that stupid app that cost an ungodly amount just to say 'I Am Rich' or whatever, but then why would you buy the app to sell the phone at a higher price, lol

[@ethangrossi2286]

I still have an iPod touch that has it on it haha

[@sio2y]

Got it the second that Annie said it was an app.

[@nialltracey2599]

I can't be bothered watching because I'm certain I know it. Lateral has truly jumped the shark

[@nialltracey2599]

Just Googled and I'm pretty confident that I'm right.

[@sirprintalot]

wait I think my old iPad still has Flappy Bird on it...

[@munjee2]

Of course, _this_ is the only one I know just from the title ...

[@kiro9291]

I knew it!!!!!!!!!!

[@panda4247]

I hate newer apps and the fact that the old apps update automatically and get worse every time. I used to play fruit ninja... now it won't even start if I am not connected to the internet... and I don't give a rat's ass about comparing my high score with random people on the internet... I just wanted to slice some fruits to let off some steam..

[@hexandcube]

I knew the answer before I even clicked on the video, and I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not

[@behramcooper3691]

But that would mean the seller had to give away his whole apple or gmail account with the phone. I don't understand.

[@zbigniewg339]

Songs Of Innocence is a great album, not their best, but very solid for a 2014 release after a 35 year career. But yeah, the marketing was terrible, that‘s true. Though I may be biased by the nostalgia for this record, not having any WiFi access at home and no broadband mobile internet connection, not wanting to spend any money digitally and just being excited to listen to an album for free back in the years

[@AJarOfYams]

Lest you want the answer to be revealed to you, do not read the comments before watching the video

[@Dreju78]

Same thing with phones with some (taken off app store, due to sanctions) bank apps in Russia. No sympathy there, from me.

[@jenniferburgess7668]

Flappy bird

[@atimelord852]

I got the wrong app. I thought it was Fortnite but when the year was said, then I got it just before the reveal

[@daniel_z_johnson]

A super salty Tom today, nice

[@Wreneye1]

Software

[@alveolate]

wait, so there were DEFINITELY people rich AND dumb enough to drop 1k+ on a USED phone just to have flappy bird? and then it later came back into the app store for free???

[@MyRegardsToTheDodo]

And surprisingly this wasn't even the last time something like that happened. After Konami removed the PT demo from the Sony Play Store PS4 consoles that had it installed exploded in value.

[@lforlight]

I would assume it's more about people listing phones at a high price and less people buying them. Anyone can list anything at any price. It doesn't say anything about the demand, and it doesn't inherently mean anyone bought or will buy it. Especially given how pretty much every application APK is backed up somewhere, even when the game was pulled you could download it.

[@sophiamarchildon3998]

Initial thoughts: if the phones are really identical, it also means what's stored or allowed on/by those phones. Unless if some law changed that made those specific phones, made/sold in some place or period, have a grandfather exemption or some such, like rights to repair, or not subject to even more spying. If we allow serial numbers, IDs, and similar to change what's possible with them, and still be considered "identical", it could be that they were a "limited edition" that granted some perks.

[@sophiamarchildon3998]

Results: the phone's storage was not identical/default, and thus the phones were not default/identical. The wording could have been better. Kind of a let down on this one.

[@MrTandtrollet]

Imidiate guess: Some firmware update that people didn't like and so phones with the of FW are selling at a premium, maybe iPhones (new iOS)?

[@MrTandtrollet]

As soon as she said App... yeah gotta be flappy bird, right?

[@jamesaditya5254]

I'm pretty sure the reason the dev took it away was because he was getting backlash from frustrated players (nothing new from the gaming world, just that more people have involuntarily become "gamers") and he decided that he "didn't need the attention"

[@ttipekul]

Annie needs to clean her mic. There's a white substance it.

[@hcblue]

The way Annie checked for the answer at the beginning ("does it have to do with an app?") was kind of perfect. It didn't give away the answer, but at the same time, it confirmed my suspicion that I, too, knew the answer.

[@romainsavioz5466]

And they didn't get it from that clue

[@PassiveDestroyer]

Yeah, me too. It brought back all of the memories of people getting swept up by it.

[@stevezpj]

I thought it was Flappy Bird straight away but also thought "there was no way that was 9 years ago!!" as I remember my panic to get it downloaded and backed up before it was taken down :D

[@emdivine]

@@stevezpj Ah so I take it you forgot to account for the time hole in between known as covid

[@stevezpj]

​@@emdivine I don't think I have the same time hole most people do since COVID hardly changed anything for me. I've had to come into the office every single day, regardless, due to working on a key network that can only be accessed from specific secured locations :(

[@JoeBleasdaleReal]

I can attest to Annie’s comment about this being a traumatic event. I was 16 at the time - it was like a disease, people turned into monsters, constantly trying to one-up each other at all cost. I fell out with so many friends over that stupid game, but we can laugh about it now 😂 Not too delighted that means Tom would consider me a “little ruddy whippersnapper” but there you go

[@IceMetalPunk]

@@kg4wwn I think you may have met my 17-year-old nephew, because you sound just like him when he talks to me 😒

[@foogriffy]

​@@IceMetalPunk i was 17 at the time. my high score was over 500

[@Winchestersammy11]

I literally yelled, “Flappy Bird!” at the kitchen table. Admittedly, it did take me a few seconds, but Annie’s mentioning of “apps” near the start of the video made my pupils dilate. XDXDXD

[@WillBinge]

Same, it was the same thing for me and the elevator one a few weeks ago

[@Bomsanchu]

exactly the same, I came down to the comments after 2 minutes of watching to check if someone else came to the same conclusion this fast

[@hebl47]

7:54 Tom wondering whether this is still Lateral or is he back on Technical Difficulties. Because he's used to getting this kind of shade thrown at him from Gary, but not here.

[@brssnkl]

I would have said "Were these phones used but not reset before being sold" to not give too much away but it's easy when you are not in a live show :D

[@random832]

I have Flappy Bird in my google account and it follows me to each new phone, did the Apple side not get that, and it's just tied to physical devices from that era only?

[@MrDannyDetail]

I also didn't know that Flappy Bird had been removed from sale at any point, but if it was quickly returned to sale again then it's understandable not to have known. I think I've only ever seen it on the large arcade machines on piers and in holiday park arcades, and not on anybody's phones tbh.

[@JasonZakrajsek]

It was never returned to sale. It’s been removed forever.

[@lforlight]

"Why overpay $1,000 for a phone?" is exactly what I ask myself every time I see someone with an iPhone

[@alphazero924]

Eh, nowadays it's actually not that crazy that modern phones cost as much as they do if, and only if, you're specifically wanting it for the camera. The way that the flagship iPhone and Galaxy phones keep pushing mobile cameras forward is absolutely worth the price of admission, but for the vast majority of people it's not necessary.

[@paulnieuwkamp8067]

Have you seen how much Samsung asks for their flagships?

[@MaxIronsThird]

@@alphazero924 Meanwhile Windows Phones in 2014 with their great cameras, seling for $250.

[@alphazero924]

@@MaxIronsThird In 2014, an 8MP camera was great for a phone, but the s23 and iPhone 14 cameras can compete with DSLRs at this point. They don't have quite the range of possibilities as a DSLR just because you're stuck with the lens you've got, but with multiple cameras in each phone now, you've got a lot of versatility that you didn't have in 2014 in any phone.

[@MaxIronsThird]

@@alphazero924 Dude, you've never had a Lumia phone for sure, their cameras were as good as modern midrange phone's, a decade later. Apple and Samsung needed half a decade to match them with their most overpriced models. Microsoft shouldn't have killed the brand, just like Mixer, they get cold feet way too fast.

[@lastnamefirstname8655]

i'm so glad i knew of this as well. it was so well known before, and when it disappeared, those that still had it became so valuable. even if nowadays there are so many similar/ripoff games, it's still played so much everywhere amongst the matching generations.

[@MyRegardsToTheDodo]

Good old Flappy Bird. I am 46 seconds into the video and basically knew the answer (I hope the rest of the video doesn't prove me wrong). He could have used PS4s for the question too (they exploded in value once Konami removed the PT demo from the store). But I am actually surprised this was in 2014, I hadn't expected it to be that long ago.

[@MarylandFarmer.]

Tom isn't the only one who aged rapidly at the end. I felt it too

[@CatherineKimport]

As soon as I saw the title my first thought was "oh my god that's gotta be that [SPOILER, CORRECT ANSWER] thing..."

[@danielchong5032]

There was a very, very recent case of deja vu similar to this one. When the Apple vs Epic Games spat over the Fortnite iOS app monetization first blew up, the game was pulled from the App Store. Those who still had the app installed in their phones could still play them, so some people took advantage of the situation and sold their phones with Fortnite still installed at a high markup.

[@spelcheak]

I remember he pulled it because ONE “mother” emailed him saying her son had missed a week of school because he was so addicted, it had only been out long enough for that to just be technically possible but not realistically true. He needed to have downloaded it getting ready for school the moment it dropped and then become instantly crippling addicted, which might have happened but it’s not the app that was the problem if true.

[@kvarts314]

Flappy bird had only been on google play (android) for 12 days when it was removed, but had been on app store (iOS) for over 8 months. So it's definitely possible for him to have been addicted to the game for over a week

[@tomcardale5596]

Do you mean portable telephones? What's this "mobile" you're talking about?

[@2tri749]

I've heard of this before, so I was familiar with it and got it once the question was read out. Excellent question Tom!

[@FrostyButter]

If only the inventor of TikTok felt the same way about an addictive product causing harm 😩

[@klassmagicker]

I don't think it's even possible at this point. Flappy Bird was made by one person (Nguyễn Hà Đông) so he has all the executive power to just take it down whenever he pleases. And good for him for having a conscience and not letting greed get in the way. But Tiktok is massive. It's an entire corporation. Even if every single employee of Tiktok became guilty, I don't think they'd take it down.

[@jfb-]

that's the goal

[@jpe1]

So many of the Lateral questions seem to me to be trivial, things that _everybody_ should know, this is the first one where I had absolutely no idea, and yet, based on the comments, lots of people knew this one. 🤔

[@UnknowinglyDerpy]

Dont be too hung up about pieces of trivia like this, not everyone has to know everything about everything

[@Lilly-Gorney]

i knew this as soon as i saw february 2014. i was also in the perfect age range to know this

[@samtherat6]

Thinking I remember this one, but was this right after Flappy Bird was removed from the App Store?

[@VonOzbourne]

Getting vibes of when Disney ended the licensing contract for the Tiny Death Star mobile game and forced the developer to remove it from any online store, effectively gutting NimbleBit's biggest revenue stream. [Waited until the end to submit just to make sure that this wasn't the answer]

[@lck0ut348]

I miss that game ...

[@Abstract_zx]

i guarantee you almost everyone under 30 got this instantly

[@x9x9x9x9x9]

I think its kinda sad i knew immediately what the answer was once Tom read it off. Actually because of the flappy bord incident anytime some weird free app starts blowing up. I download it on my main phone and back up just in case its a repeat scenario and I want some money.

[@walker1054]

I know the answer too and Annie decided to give the biggest hint ever within the first few seconds to the others lol. Suprised to see theres still another 7 mins of the video after that. The same happened with Playstation 3s with a discontinued game demo called PT after it got pulled because of some shinanigans

[@dragonslayer050819]

I totally did not need this to tell me that I'm old and flappy bird was almost a decade ago

[@maxhiggs5803]

This is great but why has Tom been slightly yassified in the thumbnail?

[@lateralcast]

Because the thumbnails need to be good enough to view on 4K televisions.

[@bertt646]

This also happened with playstation 4 when PT was removed from the store.

[@wooper4000]

Knew 100% this was the Flappy Bird craze from the first reading of the question.

[@YasuTaniina]

I'm completely out of the loop. I'm only 33, but I had to look up what flappy bird even was. It looked familiar, but I've never played it. Just wasn't interested 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@Quasihamster]

"It's something you either remember the news story about, or you don't." Yeah that's the two options, I guess! :D

[@nfcopier1]

Wait, the Beetles split up?! Why did nobody tell me this?!

[@beth12svist]

In their case, it's spelled Beatles, which was a pun.

[@maruftim]

WHAT?? it was 9 years ago??? and the original Flappy Bird were gone????

[@davidmillen7584]

Paused at 44 seconds... thinking its Flappy Bird preinstalled before it was taken off the store by it's creator.

[@sterben_1647]

I thought of Flappy Bird's cause of removal was for copyright issues. Damn, Dong Nguyen do be responsible. 😮😮😮

[@gr8rw8r]

Okay I'm 2 minutes in the video music and stop in comment this the phones had flappy Bird on them?

[@ymmc]

I had flappy bird on my ipod and my classmates deleted it when I wasn't looking :)))))

[@jblen]

My answer was that the ebay phones were sim free while the regular phones were "free" but with a set sim deal that pays back the phone price over time like you often see for modern phones. Which I guess isnt technically identical but I think it counts as a solution because the sim is not the phone

[@VinnieBartilucci]

Wow, I realized the answer like a PTSD flashback.

[@Devieus]

Well, I got this one right away before the question was finished. It's pretty nuts, and it's not just limited to phones either, playstation consoles with the P.T. demo installed on it go for just as much.

[@Randroth]

haha this is one of the few answers I knew straight away, and I never even played that game

[@sandrosaxel]

At first I thought this was about nokia 1100, which hackers used to intercept banking transactions

[@edwardw92]

I believe Geoff was referring to Virtu, the luxury sub-brand that Nokia owned for a few years.

[@bigsarge2085]

✌️

[@ankitsonariya918]

Don't troll Tom like that. Why would you do that? Respect your elders

[@stephenlee5929]

Spoiler Alert . 8:08 Spoiler alert, Geoff Marshall releases terrible news about a popular 4 piece musical ensemble

[@kylben]

Why overpay $1000 for a phone? It's an iPhone. Video over.

[@Fairyslash]

my first thought was flappy bird. now time to watch it... yup, was right

[@Heisenberdy]

If i was in this episode myself i would immediately tell tom i would have to sit this one out because i myself sold one of those phones with the app still on it I'm being vague not to spoil for people reading the comments early on in the video

[@jamietherelentless2670]

I said flappy bird to myself immediately after hearinf it was about an app, glad I was right lmao

[@cheetahman79]

Fun fact, blooket has flappy bird on it as the pre game distraction

[@jaymo9919]

The moment I saw the video I thought of flappy bird.

[@yoshi-cs6ib]

There's 100 % an APK for the original out there lol

[@R2Y2V2]

I knew the answer just from the title, lol. I never even played the game

[@10thdoctor15]

Never heard of flappy bird, and I was 17 in 2014.