WI v. Theodore Edgecomb - Motion Hearing

[@jaredmmiller500]

Just curious why in the description of this video it's necessary to list the races of the two parties involved. We really have devolved over the last few years. Yes, the media is largely responsible for this.

[@profiler403]

more views

[@prissouv9995]

This case is not the same as the Rittenhouse case !

[@nancymcdermott5795]

Mr.Heubner YOU ARE THE BEST. I CANT SAY ENOUGH GOOD ABOUT EVERYTHING YOURE PRESENTING IN ALL AREAS. AND YOU EXPLAIN EVERYTHING PERFECTLY.

[@vickiekasafirek9096]

This does not sound like self defense. And certainly is no way like the Rittenhouse case.

[@Rejoice01]

Who approached who first? Who tried run the guy off the street with their car? The deceased was the aggressor. This is just like Rittenhouse case.

[@profiler403]

@@Rejoice01 bs

[@profiler403]

@@Rejoice01 WRONG

[@marcie3032]

If he's so innocent in this why is the defence trying so hard to suppress video evidence, an innocent person welcomes all the video evidence to prove their point like Rittenhouse

[@geoffpoole483]

If he was innocent he wouldn't have fled the state. By the way "community activist" is a longwinded way of saying "unemployed".

[@dtrez3866]

This judge ain't playing.

[@KatyB1113]

Boy, Wisconsin sure has a lot of trials on here right now!

[@retiredroaddog7574]

Maybe it is the water!

[@me7298]

I'm pretty sure Rose Bly is there somewhere

[@dtrez3866]

I think in criminal trials where someone has died, the deceased should always only be referred to as 'the deceased', never "victim", until it is proven that they were the victim of a crime.

[@cb-pc1df]

Judge Schroeder in WI doesn't let people use victim or alleged victim until after it's proven they are. It's been his practice for decades but MSM and blue check marks almost had a heart attack that the state couldn't scream victim every 5 seconds.

[@JudicialMermaid]

I totally agree.

[@SS11660]

I believe legally on documents someone must be listed as a the victim of the crime that is being charged. You cant claim homicide without listing a victim.

[@audreymai2773]

In some states they do not allow the word "victim" to be used in court. But in this case, the descendent was the victim.

[@sallychambers3594]

I love this judge. He ain't playing with the defense. The defense wants an unproven expert to testify. The judge says no. I totally agree. These 2 sides should have said they need more time if they weren't ready. Stop trying to delay justice. That is what the defense is trying to do. The defendant needs a new attorney. This guy is trying to try the victim. It is not allowed. Gossip and heresay is not allowed in court.

[@jesusdaughter4299]

He WILL BE THE CAUSE OF MANY RIOTS IF HE KEEPS BEING BIASED WHICH IS EVIDENT!

[@sallychambers3594]

@@jesusdaughter4299 GET over yourself. The judge is following the law. If you decide to riot you should go to jail. Just because you don't understand the law doesn't mean a thing. Go get an education in Wisconsin law then you have a right to speak. Until then sit down because spoiled children should be seen and not heard.

[@cb-pc1df]

@@jesusdaughter4299 He is not being bias. It's the law, maybe look up some case law up before going out to burn a city down.

[@kalicat9492]

@@jesusdaughter4299 Riots? What would Jesus say?

[@livelife4236]

Its da same expert that the state have used on multiple case for them.

[@ThePsychWardAtCritterville]

I can tell already that I like this judge. This is going to be a wild trial!

[@me7298]

Agree

[@fieryweasel]

UPDATE: It was.

[@marksaunders4149]

Outstanding Judge…we need more like this

[@mistertom2385]

so much plexiglass!

[@Amanda_007]

The defense needs to tighten up!!!! This judge is at his breaking point...one wrong move and it's a wrap 🌯

[@icarus_falling]

This was just the start. Defence flunked it didn't they.

[@marcie3032]

No one can testify to someone else's state of mind. Ever lol Finally a judge that makes decisions on law lately 👍

[@dtrez3866]

I believe the wife's account. That edgecomb was going the wrong way in traffic, the wife had to swerve to miss him. The deceased then said something like "wtf", edgecomb then punches him. They go after edgecomb, and edgecomb shoots cleereman dead. The wife also said that edgecomb then looked at her as if he was contemplating killing her (coz she is a witness to the crime).

[@slowburn7765]

I don't believe the wife! She never mentioned that her husband was drunk at the time. Was she drinking also? Was that the reason she had to swerve to miss him? Have to hear her testamony.

[@dtrez3866]

@@slowburn7765 You don't have to believe the wife. What the wife has said is supported by physical evidence. And if you don't believe the wife, I presume that means that you most definitely do not believe anything edgecomb says, as edgecomb has no evidence to support it. "She never mentioned her husband was drunk" What relevance would the status of her husbands alcohol level have on her account of events? Just explain why that must be apart of the story? "Was she drinking as the reason why she had to swerve" Read the video description. Edgecomb was going the wrong way down the road and she had to swerve to miss him. Now that doesn't sound unbelievable as edgecomb was carrying a gun while knowing he was breaking the law. That shows that edgecomb does what wants when he wants and that he doesn't follow the rules. So most likely was travelling the wrong direction on the road. Plus, when the wife said this (you believe she lied), she would have had to have been aware of all the cameras. What would she gain by lying if cameras could show her to be a liar? Also, I bet she has a clean history, unlike edgecomb. If you doubt everything the wife says, how on earth can you believe anything edgecomb says about it? Please explain the rationale?

[@slowburn7765]

@@dtrez3866 Like I said, I have to hear what's presented in court to decide the case as her statement is not fact. I don't know if Edgecomb was traveling in the wrong direction as many streets only have bike lanes on one side of the street. Was she impared and didn't see him? She stated he pulled up next to them at the light any punched him through the open window. Did they Uturn and follow them or did Edgecomb Uturn? Him being intoxicated. Many people are aggressive when they've been drinking and would explain why he aggressively jumped out of the car and I guarantee you he said more than WTH. You find it easy to believe one side without hearing the facts and are clearly biased. I choose to wait to make a decision once the facts are presented! Innocent till proven guilty. Glad you're not on the Jury.

[@FlexGC]

@@slowburn7765 could go both ways. Physical injury on the deads body is consistent with being assaulted. He also ran from police for 6 months before he was caught. Wasn't allowed to carry a gun from previous charges. Isn't good history for the jury. Not the sole factor in determining the self defense aspect though. Could be deemed provocation could maybe not be. Hes gonna go on other charges regardless like felony w a weapon.

[@slowburn7765]

@@FlexGC Agreed! He'll go down for the weapons charges but I feel it's self defense.

[@marcie3032]

@law and crime , could you please remove the ethnicity of those involved from the description, as it irrelevant to the facts of the law as they stand in this case . That'd be great 👍

[@carlyates5382]

It’s not self defence if he chased the car and was the first aggressor (punching him through the window)

[@Goulash45]

@@davidward8892 There’s absolutely no proof that the N word was ever used. The only person claiming it was, is a known liar with a criminal history.

[@SS11660]

Doesnt seem like defense is prepared.

[@me7298]

"You guys figure it out. I'll see you on Tuesday" 🤣

[@LCx829]

Something in the water in WI ? A lot of weird crimes in this state.

[@truville320]

Imagine you following a cop on a bike like that

[@deejay2294]

Imagine you punching a cop sitting in his car at a red light

[@ibelf2465]

It’s the word reasonableness for me. 😳 There sits a man with what I presume has been to high school, college & beyond. Why oh why do we still say “Let me AX you a question “? What is up with them talking about the defendant getting a haircut!?

[@SS11660]

This prosecutor seems to know more about the law than the judge.

[@fieryweasel]

The prosecutor has to make an argument, the judge has to judge the argument, not make his own.

[@jnaehopkins9496]

Why the defendant need a hair cut ?? I mean it’s not neat, but it can be braided 🙃…

[@kikippratt]

This is why you need dash camera on all sides of your car...

[@IzzyMariel]

Use of force constortium? That's not even a word. How about use of force continuum? I don't know much about the case, but with that attorney, this guy is doomed.

[@marcie3032]

I would urge you to watch actual lawyers explain these terms and further explain why and how the court came to decisions , 3 channels that will probably put out videos explaining this shortly will be 🚩 former prosecutor "nate the law yer 🚩 rek ieta law , he's a lawyer that does live streams of trials, 👍 explaining everything in real time👍 🚩 "the law of Self Defense " Andrew branca, a self defence lawyer that specifies in self defence cases 👍

[@IzzyMariel]

@@marcie3032 I suggest you take an English class. Constortium is not a word

[@otuleja]

@@IzzyMariel Consortium absolutely is a word; it's just not the correct word for this phrase.

[@IzzyMariel]

@@otuleja I know consortium is a word. As I said in my post, he said "constortium"

[@marcie3032]

@@IzzyMariel well at least you can spell since you don't know the law , you got that going for u I guess 👍

[@me7298]

"No more motions in this case"....um I'd file 1...recuse this judge lol.

[@audreymai2773]

He meant no motions when it comes to that same subject.

[@fishsack7779]

"Intentional" No........ "Reckless" Yes.... Amendment of information should be allowed. It will be good for the defense too, but only and only if the defense can cross their (T)s and dot the (i)s......... The prosecution has a very good case, and he will stop at nothing till he reaches the jugular, and he is doing a very good job. The defense has a good chance of lessening the charges. I don't believe that Mr. Edgecomb woke up on September the 22nd from his bed and proclaimed that he is going to kill that day. The defense has a lot of leg work to do. Nevertheless, both sides will need to advocate for their clients properly.

[@cb-pc1df]

Intentional means he meant to kill him. Premeditated is 'waking up thinking about killing that day' but premeditation can happen in a day, minute or even a second. I think the prosecution is trying to bully him into taking a plea, that is not right. The state should charge what they think they can prove, adding lessers if they want to later. Saying if you make us go to trial we will upgrade your charge so you possibly face life is just slimy. The way he said it sounds like blackmail. I wonder what happened to his dream team? Guess that was just a photo op. SMDH

[@fishsack7779]

@@cb-pc1df thanks for replying, so I do agree that the State should only charge what they can prove, which brings me to the "intentional killing charge". I believe the state has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he wanted to end his life by the conduct. The "mens rea" as known in law is one of the most important part of criminal procedure. When we look at the degree of culpability, we see that the act based on the video and the story told, could be weighed on four grounds, first is "strict liability", then there is "negligently", and there is "recklessley", and finally purposefully. The state is risking losing the case if he is charged with "purposefully," which is intent. I am anxious to see what transpires with the amendment of charges.

[@cb-pc1df]

@@fishsack7779 You can't claim self-defense without intent, it's impossible. You have to intend to stop the threat. If you didn't intend to pull the trigger or do what ever action you took to supposedly stop this threat on your life it's just murder or manslaughter. There is also lessers included at the end of the trial in WI so the if the state over charged they do have the chance to add the lessers. So I'm not sure how in this case they over charged. I just think it was almost like blackmail to say we will give you a higher charge if you force us to uphold your constitutional right to a trial.

[@fishsack7779]

@@cb-pc1df hey c b I agree on some of things you said, "Imperfect self defense" does not always require intent though, but Interesting analysis, sure you certainly need some kind of force to stop the threat, however there's a degree of porportionality, reasonable use of force. Was he trying to end the man's life intentionally at that moment based on all circumstances? This is a question for the jury The case is already wrapped up. He took the stand, that was painful to watch. Did you watch the cross exam and recross? 😬 I almost fell out of my chair😳😳😳

[@cb-pc1df]

@@fishsack7779 Imperfect self-defense still requires intent at the start, if you use to much force or over do it (like shooting a person after they are on the ground) then it could result in a murder or manslaughter. Yes, I did watch the trial. I'm catching up on closings right now. He absolutely blew it on the stand. His lawyers are awful! Seems they didn't prep enough and only prepared for the facts they liked and totally ignored the others. I know it's hard to prepare a client to go on the stand when he is in jail but that direct and cross was the worst. People keep comparing this to Rittenhouse and I don't see the comparison. I see the hypocrisy though.

[@Trippy.j32]

LIFE WITHOUT

[@fieryweasel]

"...the use of force consortium". That's a new one.

[@lillones]

Law and Crime is the worst

[@stevengallant6363]

How did Teddy get Johnnie Cochran to represent him?

[@Catherine.59]

Is that a picture of a Super Hero behind the Judge

[@Urm0mz]

Mad about the motions...in a motion hearing. Tired? Retire

[@raybolden4788]

I see him and the rittenhouse judge and him friends I can tell they act alike defence better request another judge cuz I can tell hes bias already there should be a law against that

[@profiler403]

WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU

[@Donoharm-p7k]

Good ole boys of Wisconsin, a shame

[@KenyanBunnie]

Sad. This is self defense. Anyway, a great reminder to not engage in ridiculous road rage, you can lose your life and ruin a lot of other lives in the process.

[@kalicat9492]

Not self defense. Maybe people who are not legally allowed to own guns should stop taking their guns on a bike ride. Or anywhere else.

[@gypsyjg7686]

Word of the day belabored

[@user-he8su9oq8l]

The Defense better bring more polite and better attorneys because this guy could not deal with the judge's personality. Judge seemed competent. I hope people are not so quick to condemn Edgecomb. Haven't seen most of the evidence yet. What we have seen isn't all against Edgecomb. Most of the evidence against him is circumstances several mins before and his fleeing/record. With self-defense the State must persuade the jury that Edgecomb was not justified acting in self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt. I can find reasonable doubt when: a man is pursued by two individuals in a car, one of whom he had struck in the face several minutes prior (and fled or disengaged after striking); the pursuers' vehicle nearly strikes Edgecomb during the pursuit; the passenger (having been punched before) leaves the vehicle to pursued him, moving quickly, and shouting aggressively while overtly intoxicated. Then Edgecomb leaves the sidewalk and positions himself with a barrier between himself and Mr. Cleereman (separating from your assailant by barrier is consistent with avoiding a knife-wielder). Next Mr. Cleereman continues his pursuit and then appears to lunge at Edgecomb. A knife was found in with Cleereman at the scene and Edgecomb is expected to testify he saw Cleereman searching pockets shortly or during the final moments (at least according to the defense). Don't be so quick to pick a side before we know even half the facts, please.

[@SS11660]

Just a clarification, no witness saw the victim with a knife. The only time the police found it was in his pocket, closed up after be was shot.

[@user-he8su9oq8l]

@@SS11660 This was written before the trial, further emphasizing the final sentence. Important not to pick a side before trial. Those of us who watch the trial say that presumption of innocence go flying out the window.

[@alk315]

Why did the state prosecutor hide the video!!!!!!!!!

[@SS11660]

Which video? The first incident was not caught on any camera.

[@Sdschlief]

If the judge is too tired to deal with documents and motions (from the defense and prosecution) germaine to this case, he should recuse himself and retire from the bench.

[@raybolden4788]

I still say he shouldnt have a got out of the car you can see the judge is bias they need to get rid of him

[@profiler403]

BS he's a good judge

[@audreymai2773]

That gives someone grounds to kill someone? What happened to a good old fist fight? He is a weak man, so he needed to carry a gun.

[@alldaydavis3]

ole boys got spanked at the table in front of everyone

[@princessshenaniganspresent5538]

So this judge is tiring of the defense's vigorous defense strategy on behalf of their client? I need this judge to calm down.

[@truelifestyles]

Agreed!

[@toasted_.coconut]

The video has been released to the media. The 'victim' got out of his car to confront him.

[@cb-pc1df]

NO the video has NOT been fully released! It says right in the description the video of Edgecomb punching him thru the window is not available to the public and will not be released until trial.

[@Goulash45]

So what? You don’t get to shoot someone because they said words that you don’t like.

[@kelliannbyrnes9335]

@@Goulash45 exactly ! I would have hurt many people if I did that to everyone who called me name I didn’t like! Give me a break! This guy is another loser who needs to be in a cell with the rest of the animal criminals!

[@littlelamb-]

This judge is so spicy lmao why are they not streaming this trial now???? They should have started jury selection today 🤨

[@dr.tamikal.johnson6467]

I'm praying for you Malcolm!

[@deputybdterry]

Don’t get killed while worrying about others!

[@alk315]

Why did the state hide the video!!!?????????????

[@jesusdaughter4299]

PS: this judge is rude towards the defense, Edgecomb deserves to be wearing a suit like KR, and is "TIRING" a word??? This judge better GET IT RIGHT!🙏🙏

[@cb-pc1df]

This a is motion hearing not trial. It's up to the lawyers to bring a suit for him to wear. If he has no suit come trial it means his lawyer, family didn't bring hin one to wear. Edgecomb is NOT Rittenhouse. The case is nothing like the Rittenhouse case. I know for 2 years I heard Kyle provoked his attack because he had a gun and Rosenbaum was allowed to chase down Kyle but now you got Edgecomb, who reached into a car to punch a man then took off on his bike. WI self-defense law say even if you provoke a person you can regain your right to claim self-defense if you retreat in good faith. People keep flip flopping on the laws but the laws don't change based on the color of someone's skin. Like Binger & Kraus (KR prosecutors) your 5th amendment doesn't matter. Everyone takes a beating and if you bring a gun you lose your right to self-defense. Looks like Edgecomb doesn't have an completely unethical prosecutor but that may change once trial starts.

[@kelliannbyrnes9335]

Yes tiring is a word! It’s an adjective! A sentence example would be “ he finds it very tiring to talk for too long “

[@intuitivebootie7961]

This judge is biased and aggressive.

[@Wheningoubt]

He seems annoyed, some of the things he's said indicate the defense team have been doing things off camera that have him agitated. Not sure how warranted it is for him to feel that way but that's just what it looks like to me.

[@msreneedenice5046]

Saw online they’re trying to get the judge removed 🙃

[@profiler403]

says who? you? wtf

[@milyball]

Geezus! Maybe my judgement is clouded because the last trial I watched was Darrell Brooks, and his judge was Soo patient and kind. But this judge just seems overly angry that the lawyers are DOING THEIR JOBS by filing motions. I've never heard a judge act so irritated that motions were filed. Is that typical?

[@helenmask4605]

This judge is so biased and it's for the prosecution side every time something happens he goes off on the defense but the prosecution does the same thing he says nothing I would try to get another judge stop it or something this is crazy

[@truelifestyles]

Ok we see how the judge is leaning in this case. He’s “tiring of it!” He has a total bias against the defendant. Hopefully Theadore gets to explain what happened and defend himself on the stand. Both men are victims in this case. Both of these men felt they were in danger of deadly force.

[@dtrez3866]

"Both men are victims" One of the men punched the other man. And then shot that man dead. You don't know what was in edgecomb's mind. You have no grounds to label edgecomb a victim. If edgecomb is a victim, he would be a victim of his own actions. No one made edgecomb carry a gun even though he was banned from carrying a firearm. No one made edgecomb punched the deceased in the face. And no one made edgecomb shoot a man in the face. Edgecomb is a reckless person and it was only a matter of time before he killed someone. Presuming edgecomb hasn't already killed before.

[@dtrez3866]

"He is tiring of it" Tiring of what exactly? He is not tired of doing his job. He is tired of the BS.

[@raybolden4788]

Yall better get another judge quick this judge but God have the last say so I ckaim it not guity

[@truville320]

Words exchange one thing, but once car became the aggressor game over

[@kalicat9492]

This criminal could have went his own way instead of punching the victim in the face through the car window. The criminal could have rode away on his bike instead of shooting the victim. The criminal could have stayed at the scene instead of fleeing to another state. Guilty.

[@christineeasley5109]

,

[@Ceinae]

Imagine if Rittenhouse had a bike.

[@Goulash45]

This case bears no similarities to the Rittenhouse case.

[@Ceinae]

@@Goulash45 That was my point?

[@Goulash45]

@@Ceinae Ok. Doesn’t read like that.

[@SwissArmyKnight-o7r]

Fight: bike vs skateboard

[@pudbass]

Biased judge who's also an egomaniac.

[@catdaddy2909]

Its clear the Judge and the STATE are working together Good O boys working together!!