Why Karate Dominates.

[@LawrenceKenshin]

Karate completely transformed combat sports. They were able to usher the golden era of kickboxing due to the willingness to test themselves in the ring. However, not every karate style is made equal. Mas Oyama rejected shotokan in favor of full contact strikes, leading to Kyokushin. Kenji Kurosaki further added strikes to the head, creating the Japanese kickboxing and Dutch kickboxing style. This history is as legendary as it comes. Free Legendary Strategies: www.lawrencekenshin.com/

[@nickalmazan471]

Awesome video! You should look into the influence of the goju ryu style on kyokushin.

[@LawrenceKenshin]

@@nickalmazan471 thanks, do share what you'd like to hear from the goju ryu side :)

[@nickalmazan471]

@@LawrenceKenshin from what ive read before mas oyama was a student of shotokan and traveled to Okinawa to study goju ryu with his friend gojen yamaguchi who had brought the style from Okinawa to japan. Kyokushin is a mix between shotokan and gojuryu. Goju itself has a very unique history itself having its roots in China. It means hard and soft style where they classify techniques such as strikes as hard and grappling moves like sweeps or joint locks as soft. Its sort of a proto-mma. It also emphasizes body conditioning that goes back to china as well. Its closer to real kung fu than anything that exist in China today.

[@killaben85]

@@LawrenceKenshin well Goju-Ryu was famous for it's conditioning and high emphasis on Jiyu-Kumite or Free Fighting. I think it was Mas Oyama's time training with Gogen Yamaguchi that helped shaped his philosophy even if he went into his own direction. Giga Chikadze did train in Kyokushin but Goju-Ryu is his main Karate background competing in Irikumi Go competitions which is similar to MMA. Goju-Ryu traditional favors more circular lateral movements and tai sabaki to get the angle on your opponent when defending and hard linear movements while attacking. As a Goju-Ryu practitioner I found transitioning to Muay Thai much easier then someone with a Shotokan background.

[@nickalmazan471]

@@killaben85 yes, I grew up doing goju ryu and am now a Muay Thai fighter in Thailand. There's a lot of things like catches and sweeps in Muay Thai are are exactly like goju ryu. The way kyokushin guys do the goju katas though is too linear and not with enough hip movement and ryhthm.

[@franskoster9572]

At the roughly 4:25 mark there is footage of my old instructor, William Oliver. He had a massive impact on my life, to the degree I named my child after him. He accompanied Kaicho Tadashi Nakamura when Seido split off from Kyokushin, and then in the early 2000s he himself split from Seido. He died in 2004 at the rank of 7th dan (Shuseki Shihan) and not a day goes by that I don't think of him. His dojo in NYC still exists, run by people he taught to this day. I still train there myself. It is always a strange thing to see him suddenly and unexpectedly. But after the shock wears off, it never fails to make me smile. So thank you, not just for this video, but for the opportunity to see Shuseki again, if ever so briefly.

[@antant06]

What an awesome story thanks for sharing!!

[@FaceFamous]

Nice story man. Good luck on your continued journey. What an honor to name your child after him. Sorry for your loss. I can read that he meant alot to you

[@TheRealSquidgy]

Respect!

[@amospizzey1]

Oliver Sensie is a legend. Respect 🙏🏻🥋

[@azlaroc12]

William Oliver was one of my Karate heroes when I was a young teen studying Tang Soo Do in the 70's. There will never be another quite like him. 🙏

[@ronnysudiono315]

Oyama had considered blows to the head to be allowed in Kyokushin kumite's but after testing it he decided not to do so. Asked why not wearing gloves he answered than it is exactly Muay Thai, so he decided not to wear gloves and hit the head. Another considerations of his is the fact that their bodies and legs will be harder conditioned because all blows and kicks will come to this part of the body. He saw this point as a positive factor in hardening the spirit, too.... with some kind of reduced risks because we all know that our head is the most important part of the body. I love these considerations.

[@OkurkaBinLadin]

Well, frankly I never hear about karate fighters with "boxer fractures". Wearing heavy gloves all the times, promotes bad habits.

[@saddemgargouri]

@@OkurkaBinLadin i knew one guy from my gym that went to a street fight and broke the 5th metacarpal ( a common fracture ) when i was a teen . I don't think you understand how it works , no matter how well trained you are there is always the chance of incident of your punch landing at the wrong angle and your 5th finger is the point of impact , with enough velocity it will fracture . Now about wrist yeah probably good technique you will be fine . The correct straight punching technique doesn't put the wrist at an angle that can be fractured in but maybe scaphoid might fracture , i don't know .

[@Lcky-gu2gi]

@Pete Testube they still get kicked in the head of course they still gonna block their head

[@darthclone7]

@@Lcky-gu2gi yes they block high kicks well, but when the jab comes is when it becomes evident.. non the less kyokushin is a very hard art made to create strong men

[@notmyname3681]

​@@Lcky-gu2gi learning to block high kicks does not train you to defend against punches to the head, totally different. In sport that's a major disadvantage. In 'street' fights you're better using elbows, punches aren't worth the risk a lot of the time and you don't have gloves to cover up. The old traditional Okinawan techniques from the kata work best there.

[@oversipelio983]

I just started Kyokushin, my heart fills with joy seeing it regain popularity, we do train with k1 rules here as well when using gloves.

[@unknowninfinium4353]

Including punches to the head?

[@oversipelio983]

@@unknowninfinium4353 yes but only when using gloves

[@yoelkanchelov1898]

Where do you train?

[@oversipelio983]

@@yoelkanchelov1898 Northeast of Brazil

[@wesleyjackson7487]

Do you guys train kata and if so how much time spent on it ?

[@1988jeffy]

Anyone who has done Kyokushin will understand why... hard sparring and conditioning and relatively little flash. The adaptation to other combat sports is helped by this. Throwing body shots at close range you learn to get head kicks on target, and defend them, with real small windows of opportunity.

[@mizutxko]

I did Kyokushin (Head punches added head punches sometimes), Judo, Muay Thai, Boxing, and Wrestling

[@budoka_gaijin]

As someone who trains in both Kyokushin and Kudo, thank you. The arts really help me in my MMA. The constant toughness and hardcore training really make me conditioned to deal with fighting at its toughest.

[@combatsportsarchive7632]

@@Sakattack2023 Hey, go to my channel then watch my second oldest video (title: Full Contact Karate in Early MMA) and my first oldesr video (title: Muay Thai VS Karate in MMA matches) for context. Then argue with me there if you dare. You're the one making up BS arguments.

[@sorenpx]

I've wanted for years to have access to a Kudo school. (Though I prefer to call it by it's older name, Daido Juku. Just sounds cooler!) Sadly, Kudo schools seem almost nonexistent in the US.

[@Sakattack2023]

@@sorenpx because it’s trash. You look around the world and you won’t find many bud. Theirs a reason for that.

[@sorenpx]

@@Sakattack2023 Kyokushin + Judo and competition rules that are a lot like MMA is trash?

[@Sakattack2023]

@@sorenpx yeah, because 1. It’s not like MMA, 2. The techniques in both those martial arts are trash. AGAIN theirs a reason those schools suck and are dying. Theirs a reason judo isn’t popular and no one does it. Theirs a reasons kyokushinshitsu or whatever isn’t popular and no one does it. Theirs a reason non of those disciplines are successful in any fighting sport. It’s because they suck and theirs a million better options.

[@44excalibur]

You sort of forgot to mention that Kyokushin founder Mas Oyama didn't only train in Shotokan with Gigo Funakoshi, he also trained in Goju Ryu karate with Nei-Chu So, who was a fellow Korean from Oyama's native province and a senior student of the Goju Ryu's founder, Chojun Miyagi.

[@duanemiller567]

Good comment you made, another point on that "topic" is the Shotokan kata's are the beginner kata's in the Kyokushin system, while the Goju kata's are more for advanced students of Kyokushin. To add to that, the Goju fighter who lost to Muay Thai was of Japanese Goju Ryu (Goju-Kai), not Okinawan Goju (Chojun Miyagi).

[@Robert-fx8ei]

he was also a judo master

[@duanemiller567]

@@Robert-fx8ei Yes sir, besides that Sosai Mas Oyama was skilled in Daito-Ryu Aiki Jitsu.

[@GabAssbreaker]

I had a friend in school who trained Kyokushin, he was one of the thoughest guy i met, his legs were like made of stone, he kicked trees and steel bars like they were pillows

[@Thongsai]

In 1998 I fought a Kyokushin fighter in a open style tournament. We were in the Finals. I remember unlike my opponents before. Taekwondo, Kajukembo, the Kyokushin guy had a very strong base. And he wasn't afraid to trade leg kicks. He stood right in front of me I was confused I was like what type of Karate is this? To me it was more similar to Muay Thai. Even tho I won. Kyokushin is the only Karate I respect 🙏 OSU

[@combatsportsarchive7632]

I watched a documentary KZbin video called "Georges St-Pierre(GSP) UFC Welterweight Champion with TMT Trainers Yod and Lamsongkram" and it's about a MMA fighter with a Kyokushin background who went to 'Tiger Muay Thai' gym for cross training. At 6:35 - 6:50 of that specific video, one of the Thai instructors made this statement: "First of all, it was hard for me how to train GSP because he doesn't really use Muay Thai style. His style is more Karate and kickboxing. So we just changed a little bit and then got into a flow. He is very smart and a fast learner."

[@LawrenceKenshin]

legit!

[@Thongsai]

To be honest if you talk to the Best Kyokushin fighters today they all have (Thai Ties). I'm not going to name any names Lawrence knows. Alot of them trained in Thailand 🇹🇭 especially the Seido Kaikan guys. I know Lam very well too🙏

[@combatsportsarchive7632]

@@Thongsai Right, they have those ties with the Thai folks. I just wanted to point out you aren't the only one who experienced that something is different yet somewhat similar about that hard style of Karate and its offshoots like Seidokaikan Karate and Shidokan Karate. It's a matter of sharing perspective. In fact, they are more in align with Motobu Choki's aim for practical Karate rather than traditional Karate's approach from Funakoshi. It's kinda like when the Brazilian practitioners studied Judo and then formulated what they learned to form into Jiu Jitsu. There is nothing wrong with cross training.

[@Thongsai]

@@combatsportsarchive7632 You are absolutely right. It was so similar but slightly different. After that many years later. I had about 4 legit kyokushin black belts. They showed me their routines and kick drills.

[@powerbar1981]

Choi Yeung-Eui (Choi Bae-Dal) aka Masutatsu Oyama. I learned this from the movie "Fighter In The Wind" and since then I have interested to knowing more about Kyokushin Karate history. Truly the only one person who save Karate World from my perspective view. Mas Oyama truly legend.

[@LawrenceKenshin]

cheers alvin!

[@flip1sba]

I'm a Kyokushin practitioner myself but have high respect for the other systems of Karate and other martial arts. Training is really tough but managed to get through and it's benefits weigh more than its hardship. OSU!

[@mauriceshapero7200]

Another brilliant video - thank you. There is another side to this. Karate was designed for everyday average people. I did kyokushin in my twenties and it was brutal. Now in my mid fifties, the training and fighting would be useless to me as I just don’t have the same power or explosiveness. Traditional karate is superb for people who aren’t athletes and only train two or three times a week. The techniques of tradition karate can be ingrained into the body slowly over many years. 99.99% of people want do something that’s attainable and could never compete or even train in kyokushin or Muay Thai. Obviously that kind of training is superior, but most of us don’t have the time or the inclination to stand toe toe with young killers!

[@LawrenceKenshin]

thanks for sharing!

[@UKPREPPINGSHOP]

Just started kyokushin at 52 after 20 years off the mat trying various martial arts and loving it...

[@JavierRomero-jp7hy]

Tienes razón, yo tengo 64, hice kyokushin desde los 16 y llegué a tercer dan , ha partir de hay , el resto de los danés eran más burocráticos, los que Competíamos , al contacto total nunca representamos más haya del 5 por ciento, como en la mayoría de los deportes de contacto, y el que se crea que en el kyokushin no llaves y agarres desconoce mucho de nuestro karate , los katas , se basan mucho en la defensa personal, hace mucho que no sigo el karate de gimnasio y no me interesa saber hacia donde deriva, me imagino que a la parte económica, a la gente le diría, que para lo que sirve no es para pegarse en la calle sino para permitirte usarlo o no usarlo , porque las peleas , es muy raro que se produzcan ha no ser que las vaya buscando uno , entonces te puedes pegar todos los días, sigo practicando, un abrazo y un saludo 🫂 Lo de las peleas no va por tí, es para los que si leen esto, se pregunten que es lo que buscan, ous

[@elindioedwards7041]

After initially training in TKD under Cha Sok Park in the 1970s and then getting to Muay Thai and boxing much later in life I believe that all karate styles benefit tremendously from a merger with boxing. I have yet to see Karate with good head coverage that has not been paired somewhat with western boxing. I would say that Muay Thai also benefits greatly when paired with some exclusive western boxing training. Great video as usual from Kenshin.

[@LawrenceKenshin]

cheers! Japanese kickboxing is karate merged with muay thai and boxing

[@nacktheslayer9882]

Taekwondo as well. TKD/Karate with muay thai and boxing is great for stand up.

[@markmessi9020]

Me! That's literally my style is karate with boxing. Obviously I trained MMA as well but out of the four pillars for MMA, boxing is definitely the one I gravitate to the most. He who rules with his hands rules the world...with some spinning kicks sprinkled in

[@DeathWithinTenSteps]

@@LawrenceKenshin As a former Karateka and Nak Muay my experience has been that karate is an inferior combat sport. However, during my time in the armed forces and law enforcement I’ve had more use of karate techniques. As a martial art and fighting system karate is great as long as the Karateka is pressure tested often.

[@SenseiEli]

Boxing is a very simple game compared to MMA or even Karate. 1 year of Boxing you get a lot of valid abilities! But you have to take care and choose the right place to learn...Getting knocked down in practice is not a game....In 90 minutes Karate lesson you get about 5 minutes sparring.. in 90 minutes boxing lesson you sometimes do more than 20 minutes sparring.. After a year or two that sums up to a lot of time learning how to avoid getting hit And hitting. Not all classes are the same. This is from my experience. All that said I do prefer Karate with a touch of Boxing. For the long run for my life for a healthy body it gives me personally much more.

[@AroundElvesWatchUrselves96]

You forgot to mention that Kurosaki came in as replacement for another fighter. Also, Sawamura was a Goju Ryu fighter turned kickboxer.

[@LawrenceKenshin]

didn't forget, just didn't think it was a significant detail here. replacements happen all the time

[@Mustard_Dispenser]

@@LawrenceKenshin preach

[@sebastianmiranda5076]

Add the fact that Kenji Kurosaki is the co-founder of Kyokushin itself. It is well known among The International Kyokushin Budokai of Jon Bluming from Holland, which is one of the first systems of mma ever created. Jon Bluming called it All Round Fighting.

[@SaikouKarate]

​@@sebastianmiranda5076 There is no co-founder of Kyokushin. I would take everything Bluming has said with a pinch of salt, he's known for making inaccurate statements.

[@rileyjohnporter4274]

@@sebastianmiranda5076 the first MMA style was panktation like 1600 years before karate was a thing.

[@adhdmed]

I wouldn't say other karate styles are useless. One of my BJJ grappling buddies is Shotokan black belt and it's very difficult to take him down although I come from a wrestling background. Because Shotokan trains takedowns and throwing like Judo. They move in and out to avoid getting thrown. In Kuyokushin you not allowed to grab and throw, only forward trips are allowed but no grabbing. Street fights has lots of grabbing mixed with hitting to the face.

[@attritionwarrior]

Exactly.

[@egaluel]

People often overlook this part from shotokan, I always argue that its the best style against untrained people, if you fail the punch you know what type of grappling to do, you dont focus on going to the ground, you dont expose your back a lot, you just cover distance quick, throw to the ground and run.

[@yogsothoth-tz2bu]

For me shotokan is more like leg defense boxing (like paquiao or Ali) hit ,get out with legs , hit again ,space /distance etc and kyokushin is like Chávez or tyson styles ,always attacking and trading. Both approaches are legit but i think it depends how are you built.

[@attritionwarrior]

@@yogsothoth-tz2bu accurate analysis

[@chrishooper8260]

Geez. Another who knows what he's talking about. I wonder if people ever think where did these other styles after Shotokan got their punches kicks strikes throws locks holds. No one is better. It's the person standing out the front who makes it good a bad. Karateka are what they see.

[@amazed2341]

From what I remember reading ages ago, the kyokushin fighters used lots of throws and sweeps, and this lead to the Thais to remove throws from MT, and only keeping the sweeps and trips

[@LawrenceKenshin]

i heard its the judo guys

[@urssoz]

Not sure this is exclusive for Kyokushin, I trained Shito-ryu for a couple of years before going to Kyokushin and even in Shito-ryu we practiced some throws. There are some katas that have throws included like Pinan Sandan and Passai.

[@joshuabrant3487]

@@LawrenceKenshin Most accomplished judoka and karateka cross trained in the other Japanese martial arts especially back then. Even Kimura used to do 100s of knife hand strikes as a part of his daily routine... And yes it was common for kyokushin guys whenever they would fight thai boxers to avoid getting beat up in the clinch they would just throw them. Even Benny Urquidez did this as well because he had a judo background too lol.

[@Mszaanisko]

Oyama himself had a 5th black belt in Kodokan Judo. KK + Judo is very nice combination, and in KK katas many times you see judo throws, if you now where to look :)

[@niwamura]

You forgot to mention Peter Smit, a Dutch Kyokushin karateka. He was the first westerner that beat a Thai champion on Muay Thai rules in Thailand by the way of knock out. On August 31, 1990 he fought against Changpuek Kiatsongrit in Lumpinee stadium. And knocked him out in the 2nd round. The match can be watched on KZbin.

[@saleemsuliman3062]

Some say he had Dutch kickboxing experience too

[@niwamura]

@@saleemsuliman3062 He competed in Kyokushin and in kickboxing, but he trained Kyokushin.

[@saleemsuliman3062]

@@niwamura i was wondering if is it possible to compete in a kickboxing match by only training in kyokushin way🤔

[@niwamura]

@@saleemsuliman3062 yes, of course it’s possible. In the Netherlands there is a long relation between Kyokushin and (Dutch) kickboxing. Sem Schilt also came from Kyokushin / Ashihara karate.

[@mitchjames9350]

@@saleemsuliman3062 Dutch Kickboxing is Kyokushin and Boxing. The Dutch Kickboxing pioneers where black belts in Karate.

[@SoloFan87]

As a man who Trains in BJJ under the Double Five team and Dutch Kickboxing under Duane "Bang" Ludwig's association (Bang Muay Thai) I love these videos especially this one. I love how you broke down on how Karate especially Mas Oyama's influence is still alive till this day. One thing I always loved about Mas Oyama's philosophy is Conditioning and Fitness. Something that BJJ stresses a lot on as well. Always love your break down videos.

[@LawrenceKenshin]

thank you brother

[@BianicEpicVideos]

oss 🥋

[@stanclark3992]

Hi Psilord87. Sorry to disappoint, but all styles of traditional karate emphasize fitness & conditioning. It's up to the individual practitioner to realize this, then be guided by competent instruction. True is, many if not most karate practitioners all over the world benefit from less than fully intensive training. Karate tradition sets the highest standards, the journey, on what level one aspires to, is an individual journey. Best of the Best. Here's a clip from the marital arts movie, Best of the Best. kzbin.info/www/bejne/hH60lKekgcyGjbc Insane TKD Skills. Here's a clip of TKD exhibition training, meant to appeal to team sport participation. kzbin.info/www/bejne/inyok6qpababe80 The strength of traditional karate lies not just in physical conditioning, but in whole body conditioning which facilitates the most dynamic physical action. Rather than stand and trade blows with a physical Muay Thai behemoth, the traditionally karateka out moves him. The additional part of the equation, is proper traditional karate training develops the internal strengths far beyond what physical sport training is able. The mind brings the entire musculature of the body, external & internal and brings that strengths to a single point on the opponent, great speed & high accuracy. This is how a female TKD Practitioner, can KO a beefy MMA competitor, aka similar to how Rose Namajunas KO'd a physically stronger opponent in Joanna Jedrzejcyk, and Weili Zhang. Spirit. The internal equation then expands to spiritual strength, which move the contest beyond the physical plane. Boards and even bricks are broken, shattered not by muscular force alone, but by the energy inside us. Strong full contact fighters are a danger to be sure... however, that is precisely what the traditional martial arts are designed to defeat. That is, if one can embrace them 🤗🤗CHEERS.

[@horaceholloway]

Fellow BMT student here. OSU!!

[@GGn00bschell]

I liked how you linked Japan's defeat in WW2 with Oyama's street fighting. One little thing though, Mas Oyama was a Korean who trained in present-day China. So he has a very international background. It is deeply inspiring that he brought a deeply Japanese spirit to Karate with its spiritual focus and inspired many Japanese peopole.

[@wasabi5338]

yeah if i remember correctly, Oyama being Korean earned him alot of hate from the japanese karate masters from other discipline.

[@GGn00bschell]

@@wasabi5338 you can find a video of him speaking in Korean on KZbin too. Seems like he never gave up that Korean side of him

[@caldeandrade69]

Glaube Feitosa, Andy Hug, Francisco Filho, Nicholas Pettas and many Kyokushin fighters came out as legendary when they went in a Kickboxing ring. Indeed, without Kyokushin, K1 Kickboxing wouldn't even be a thing. OSU!

[@LawrenceKenshin]

indeed!

[@СергейМанько-ж7л]

😊

[@Bazilisk_AU]

I can’t wait to meet Nicholas Pettas later this year.. He now runs a KZbin channel called JunkFoodJapan where he goes around sampling some of the best modern Japanese cuisine. He runs a CrossFit gym in Azabu-Jyuuban in Tokyo and he still runs Kyokushin Camps and Workshops. Dude is an absolute beast !

[@edwindavidnavarro5859]

The best thing I do in my life was practice Karate Kyokushin, one of the best fighting style, coming back again to do what I love practicing kyokushin again, thanks to my Shihan he do it practicing with me one more time.

[@LawrenceKenshin]

🙏🙏

[@sunnibird]

I did about 5 years Kyokushin. It was brutal :D Such tough workouts.

[@duanemiller567]

As far as the "no head punches" in Kyokushin goes, head punches, strikes were frequent in the original training.

[@user-cn7wy7xx5k]

but not nowdays. unfortunately

[@duanemiller567]

@@user-cn7wy7xx5k Actually, as you stated "but not nowdays", depends on the particular Kyokushin dojo. I myself started tratning in Kyokushinkai in the mid 70's (1973) and "head punches" were practiced always. We would use "football handguards" so the finger's would be "loose".

[@user-cn7wy7xx5k]

@@duanemiller567 that's cool every dojo should train like that, kyokushin has the potential to be like kickboxing or Muay Thai.

[@duanemiller567]

@@user-cn7wy7xx5k Yeah, but I would like to state, as Mas Oyama said Kyokushin Karate is "budo" ( character building and "self development" ) not just "fighting". I trained boxing before I started Karate, so to me Muay Thai and kickboxing are"sports". Karate , I think is "deeper" at least in my opinion. But as the saying goes ' to each his own',

[@wasabi5338]

@@user-cn7wy7xx5k it depends in the dojo, sometimes in our dojo we usually spar with gloves on and with kickboxing rules. another dojo we visited practiced a freeform of fighting called jissen kumite where grappling and palm strikes to the face were allowed.

[@murilocaruy]

Sawamura was the inspiration for the classic anime Sawamu, about a karate fighter that loses to a Thai fighter and take up Muay Thai. This cartoon is great and it was showcased in Brazil during the 80s. It inspired thousands to take up martial arts. The famous Chute Box academy took it's name from this cartoon, which was the name of Sawamu's new style (kickboxing, translated to Portuguese).

[@LawrenceKenshin]

awesome history!

[@waterlegend72]

People need dramatic examples to shake them out of falsity and I can't do that as Shotokan. As a semi-contact, I'm soft and lacking, I can be ignored, I can be destroyed; but as Kyokushin... as Kyokushin I can be incorruptible, I can be everlasting. - Mas Wayne Oyama (KarateMan)

[@LawrenceKenshin]

awesome

[@ElDrHouse2010]

And now a Kyokushin guy Azuma Takashi evolved Karate even more into Kudo in the 80s. Kudo is the ultimate form of Karate, the recollection of all of the Japanese martial arts into one. The absolute form of Japanese Martial History.

[@akatsuki1.034]

It is true. But it someway faild, because never have enought popular. There is so litle gyms you can actually practice kudo art

[@BurningArt78]

Kyokushin is a pure demonstration of how Martial Arts are about toughness and hardness just as much as ( in fact probably way more than ) purity of technique.

[@y_magaming9798]

I've been saying this for a decade Kenji kurowsaki, mas oyama, and Jan plas are literally the most important martial artist of all time.

[@dstavs]

Another outstanding analysis, Lawrence. I had described in a comment in your "Why Taekwondo Gets Destroyed" video my journey from TKD to Muay Thai and how Muay Thai captivated me with it's brutal efficiency. In the last year my son started Karate at a dojo conveniently located down the street from us. They are practitioners of Okinawan Goju Ryo Karate, which Masutatsu Oyama practiced before creating Kyokushin Karate. I watched for the for the first few months and was impressed with much of what was taught, albeit, catered to small children. I'd been out of training for quite a while so the martial arts bug bit me hard. I decided to try an adult class. I'm 6 months in and can say that I'm very impressed with the style. There is a considerable amount of overlap in the striking styles of Goju Ryu and Muay Thai. There is emphasis on the power generation beginning in the feet: potential energy transformed to kinetic energy, converted to rotational movement through the core, exploding through the strike via the feet/shins, knees, elbows and fists. Even the bouncing step-and-slide cadence ubiquitous with Muay Thai is a part of the curriculum. While there are some small technical differences, I've found the lessons I had learned in Muay Thai (still #1 in my heart) are easily transferred to Goju Ryu. Legends like Andy Hug are a testament to the effectiveness of Karate in real-world striking competitions.

[@neocloudmarts9613]

Let’s be honest , erase the point sparring or semi contact , my experience has seen that all the striking arts are basically the same with some nuances. The other styles are maybe more careful not to permanently injure themselves, “hard men burn brightly and then are extinguished just as easily” as soon as their peak is diminished. What needs to be discussed is the injures

[@neocloudmarts9613]

The techniques that I have found in Muay Thai and K1 kickboxing are the same as in Aikido, hapkido, Juûjutsu , Judo Taekwon do and kung fu. Muay Boran itself looks like every other traditional martial arts system. The hero worship of certain martial systems needs to stop, Muay Thai and kickboxing is effective in the ring and in certain street encounters, not all. Just be open minded. Lawrence Kenshin is a great educational channel but need to be impartial.

[@neocloudmarts9613]

Just a philosophical opinion from a random martial arts student with experiences , feel free to comment lol

[@matthewwalters6261]

One of the reasons why Kyokushin is so hard is because of the influence of Goju Ryu Karate. Goju ryu means "Hard-Soft Style". Mas Oyama incorporated the "hard" side of Goju Ryu Karate.

[@filipcesnjak2944]

I have trained kyokushin and that mindset helped me in box, kickbox, grappling, bjj and in LIFE ... kyokushin truly is different then other karate ... OSU

[@cepininja1927]

Sir, thank you for showing us this history treasure about the rivalry between karate and Muay Thai. How karate evolve. To the people who played Street Fighter and Street Fighter 2 world warriors is based in this historical moment of martial arts.

[@rednas2.079]

I've trained both Kickboxing and Kyokoshin karate, but I never knew this connection. I am humbled and a bit wiser, thank you!

[@LawrenceKenshin]

👍🏻🙏

[@fahadkelantan]

Another great episode. Thank you very much, Lawrence. I'd like to share some points about Karate. 1. On Shotokan: Ryukyu Islands (Okinawa) are not Japanese. They are their own people with their own original language. The main reason Gichin Funakoshi's Shotokan became popular is because he spoke Japanese. There is a story covered by Jesse Enkamp's channel of Motobu Choki going out to mainland Japan and whopping the crap out of Gichin in front of his students. Motobu like other Okinawan cross trained in all sorts of styles. He'd go out and get into fist fights and learn from this person and that person. That's kind of the Okinawan way. Open culture. Why do I mention this? Because A. Shotokan was never the full form of Karate even for its time. It was taught by a junior Karateka named Gichin. B. Motobu had several very famous students who started their own schools like Kempo and Wado. 2. On Kyokushin: Masutatsu originally studied Goju Ryu under a Korean named So Neichu, then a little bit with So's senior Gogen Yamaguchi. In fact many of Kyokushin's founders with Mas were Goju Ryu guys, not just Shotokan guys. So attributing the huge difference between Mas' students and Gichin's is a false comparison. You have to factor in the huge influence of Goju on Mas' Kyokushin. In fact Tadashi Sawamura one of the three Kyokushin fighters in the video was in fact a Goju Ryu student from childhood. Also, as tough as they are, the style evolved in a bubble world environment. No punches to the head but okay kicks to the head meant these Kyokushin guys developed really bad boxing habits. Their heads were always exposed. There is a good interview with Goshi Yamaguchi the son of Gogen on the early days of Kyokushin. YT won't allow me to post links. 3. Goju Ryu, Shotokan, and other Okinawan styles: They are doing pretty good. Goju Ryu alone has produced UFC champ Robert Whittaker, and mid tier fighters like Chikadze who's KOing some good fighters, and Gunnar Nelson. Shotokan has produced the aforementioned Lyoto, and Kyoji Horiguchi. Both MMA champs with hybrid styles. In fact if you look at Karate Combat, the vast majority including their champions are not Kyokushin fighters. 4. Evolution: Culture including Martial Arts are Memes. Social genes that pass on from individuals to individuals. As things evolve we need to use the lineage method of naming similar to how it is usedin virology. Alpha, Beta, Delta, Omicrons, BA2... haha. Kyokushin is descended from Goju Ryu and Shotokan with an Oyama mutation. Then it failed as demonstrated in the video against Thai. So the next evolution was combining Thai Boxing and Western Boxing into the system. So the new lineage of Kickboxing is in fact not Kyokushin anymore. It mutated or eveloved to be something new. So Lawrence, this video is about the success of Kenji Kurosaki "Mejiro" style in kickboxing, not Kyokushin. Kenji was a student of Goju Ryu under Gogen Yamaguchi. He then learned western boxing and thai boxing into his style. Thus Mejiro style which is what we know as modern kickboxing is actually not just Kyokushin. It is inherently untrue to give credit to Mas Oyama. Kenji was doing what Okinawan Karate folks have been doing for centuries. Learn from everyone. We saw Thai boxers learning western boxing to evolve newer mutations into their style. Like Samart Payakaroon. To call Kyokushin a dominant style above others is not backed up by the records. Thanks again Lawrence. I look forward to more of your video. Fahad

[@mrgsudo]

Lots of good information unfortunately mixed with some fake news mixed in it, please I mean no disrespect, but let me point out what I think you got quite wrong. 1. On Shotokan The main reason Funakoshi succeeded on implemented Karate in mainland Japan and others like Motobu failed (he tried, and ended up going back to Okinawa) is because he was not only a tremendous karateka, but also a scholar and educator. To say that Funakoshi was a "junior karateka" is, I am sorry, pure ignorance of the facts based on the opinion of some jealous Okinawan masters that failed when he succeeded, nothing more than propaganda. Funakoshi trained Karate since his youth under Anko Itosu, in a time that Karate was taught mainly to family members and few selected people. Anko Itosu, one of the top masters of his time took Funakoshi as a student and after years training under him Itosu send Funakoshi to train under another great master of its time, Anko Asato. (1). Itosu would never send him to Asato if he believed Funakoshi was some “junior karateka”, his honor was attached to it, he send it because he saw potential in his student. When the Japanese prince stoped in Okinawa a demonstration of Karate was arranged at the Shuri castle grounds, and the person the local leaders choose to lead the demonstration was Funakoshi. Is crazy to believe that the government of Okinawa would choose someone with bad credentials do lead such an important role. In comparison, Motobu never formally trained Karate. He was actually denied training by Okinawan masters because of his reckless temperament (2) he developed most of his techniques by fighting in brothels and spying on people. He could barely speak Japanese, needed translation during his classes in mainland Japan, had no teaching methods and that was credited as the reason his students abandoned him. Motobu was without a doubt a great fighter but the task to implement a martial art to mainland Japan was beyond the task of a merely fighter, only a warrior (bushi) could do it, and Funakoshi was the man for this task. As evidence of this may I ask you some questions: a. Do you train in a dojo with more than 10 people? b. Do you use a belt? c. Do you use a Gi? d. Your karate style uses high kicks? e. Do your style uses roundhouse kicks? f. Do you train overseas? In other words, are you not part of the elite of Okinawa and train Karate? If you respond “Yes” to those questions you can thank Funakoshi and Shotokan for all of this, as they are all innovations brought by Funakoshi and his son, Gigo, that was retroactively adopted by all karate styles that survived. Motobu simply was not the man to bring all the necessary changes to make Karate acceptable art in Japanese society and to bring it to modernity. 2. Motobu vs Funakoshi. Jesse Enkamp is not a historian, he is a KZbinr, and he clearly put more effort in click-baiting than exposing the facts, you should not take him seriously. How dare I say that? Well, who is saying that is Enkamp itself. In his blog, years ago when clickbaiting was not a thing, Jesse tried to tell the whole story (3). And the hole story is that is at least 3 different accounts of what happened. a. Motobu version, which Jesse adopted as gospel in his recent video. b. A totally different account brought by Konishi Yasuhiro that Jesse also quoted where Motobu did not “challenge” Funakoshi, but tricked him, like some kind of troll: “I heard that Motobu met Funakoshi and they talked about how various attacks could be effectively received, when Motobu asked him to show him a block against a punch. When Funakoshi blocked the technique Motobu seized his hand and threw him about three and a half meters. I’m not sure if this is true or not but I do know that since that time Funakoshi hated Motobu very much, referring to him as an illiterate.” b. An account that I believe is the most believable of all accounts. Brought to you by a student both from Motobu and Funakoshi and founder of Wado ryu, Hiromi Otsuka: “One story recounted in the “Nihon Budo Taikei” tells of a meeting at Konishi’s dojo between Motobu and Funakoshi, also present was Otsuka, and a judo 4th degree who was accompanying Motobu. It was obvious that Motobu was intent on making mischief. Motobu arranged a challenge, in which the judoka took a grip on Funakoshi’s collar and sleeve. Motobu then said, “Now, you are so proud of your basic kata, show me what value they have in this situation. Do what you wish to escape.” It was obvious that the odds were against Funakoshi, the much younger judoka having established a firm grip, but he gamely tried to disengage with soto ukes and uchi ukes, with no success and was finally lifted up and thrown against the wall of the dojo. Otsuka was then asked to try his luck. He rose to the challenge and with his jujitsu background, had no difficulty in dealing with the situation.” (4) The reason this version of the facts is much more believable to me was simply because Otsuka was know as a gentleman and the fact that he had nothing to gain by lying on a subject like this, he was a student of both Funakoshi and Motobu and even Motobu only had good things to talk about Otsuka. But well, those are the facts, people are free to believe in the version they like the better. Again, I have no intent do deny Motobu prowess on fighting, AND his contribution to Karate brought mostly by his students and his approach to practical Karate, but even the old Okinawan masters agree that he was a troublesome individual and lacking on the department of ethics: “Most of karate masters of that time where highly critical of Motobu’s aggressive attitude and his reckless manner of learning karate by street fighting, and they refused to teach him” There is a herculean work ahead of us to rescue Karate history that is cover by myths and legends and also gossip and misinformation. If Master Motobu taught us anything is that a practical approach is necessary to mist that cover the eyes of many. 1. Funakoshi Wiki 2. The History of Karate and the Masters Who Made It: Mark I. Cramer - pg 85 3. Karate by Jesse blog - Motobu & Funakoshi - The Habu & The Mongoose 4. Dojo Update .com - Master Hironori Otsuka

[@DragonDreamVNY]

This is a wonderful thread. Thank you both for the Info and reading. I think Funakoshi knew alot more in terms of application than what was eventually taught to university students in mainland Japan with that big focus on Sport, spirit and Competition. My instructor in England... One of those hard blokes who grew up in 60-70s London always said the only instructor he considered a "master" was Nakayama. He never said even the same about his own teachers and mentors and they are all about application (think Terry ONeill era badasses 💪 if you want to "Hazard" a guess whom it is). One thing telling in his book and seminars... That black belts in the JKA instructor course had some time to go away and dismantle a Kata to think about bunkai was probably a strange thing for most KarateKa who only Do and not Think. Lest we forget some of the early senior Shotokan guys studied Judo and Kendo to a Dan level... Or even cross trained in other systems later in their careers. Whether it's Kung Fu, Aikido, and I bet if Silat was around on Mainland Japan there would have been a lot of cross pollination for applications... And not the long range focus we have today. I do enjoy watching Karate Combat and Rafael Aghayev.. to see him switch between two 🥊 Game rulesets 🤔💪

[@fahadkelantan]

Hello @@mrgsudo. Thank you for sharing. All of your arguments are focused on Shotoakn vs. Motobu. Your discussion is entirely a dispute of Funakoshi's legitimacy. You ignored my main points. Which is Martial Arts evolve from person to person. Just as Genes evolves from virus to virus, Memes evolve from person to person in any given environment. Even if Funakoshi was a junior Karateka compared to higher ranked Karateka, he was still a Karateka. He still had knowledge. So good for him. Your arguments about belts and spreading knowledge. Well.... that's Jigoro Kano, not Funakoshi. Funakoshi had used the principles of Kano who himself was influenced by John Dewey. Funakoshi Kano-fied Karate. That was the project. Belts, ranks, Gi, cross training, open sessions, international locations etc these are all from Kano. Not Funakoshil. Credit where credit is dude Eugenio. Kano is the one who changed all of martial arts. Not these other folks. Everyone else copied what Kano invented. All of these organizational structures are from Kano. Here is a reality check. Pure Shotokan sucks in MMA and kickboxing. It simply sucks. It is weak. Lyoto Machida goes into great lengths on how he changed his training and style to adapt it to MMA. The same with Kyoji Horiguchi when he started training at Krazy Bee. In Shotokan the bubble world created an artificial world where punches to the head and kicks to the legs are made illegal. Points are awarded based on contact and not amplitude. A soft jab to the chest scores the same as a power cross to the chest. These bubble world rules hinder real life fighting. Yes it is effective once adjustments are made, but not in it's raw sport Shotokan form. Sport Shotokan doesn't work. Lawrence in this video here shows that raw Karate was indeed inferior to raw Muay Thai. Raw Muay Thai in its pure form is superior to the Karate fighters that showed up. This is fact. Once the adjustments were made, they were no longer the Alpha Meme version of Shotokan or the Alpha Meme version of Kyokushin. They mutated into something else. Kenji's style was effective after the mutations. Lyoto went through a similar transition as well. Lyoto has a highly accomplished champion in pure Alpha Meme Shotokan. He explains how it did not work for MMA. So he evolved. That's my point. We need to constantly evolve and develop. You have to have a reality check to what the empirical evidence shows. Otherwise you become delusional and don't evolve to be better. If you train in Shotokan that's great. It has lot of cool memes in there. But you must constantly learn to evolve. I wish you the best in your training. Stay safe. Keep your sparring partners safe. Stay away from Monkey Pox. Haha.

[@mrgsudo]

@@fahadkelantan --------------------------------------------------------------- All of your arguments are focused on Shotoakn vs. Motobu. Your discussion is entirely a dispute of Funakoshi's legitimacy. You ignored my main points. Which is Martial Arts evolve from person to person. Just as Genes evolves from virus to virus, Memes evolve from person to person in any given environment. --------------------------------------------------------------- I did not "ignored" your main argument, it was simple not worth mention it because I agree with it and it was not the problem in your text, the problem was your blatant lack of knowledge on something that you are speaking with assumed authority. I simply addressed what, in my view, needed correction and ignored the rest. Simple. -------------------------------------------------------------- Even if Funakoshi was a junior Karateka compared to higher ranked Karateka, he was still a Karateka. He still had knowledge. So good for him. --------------------------------------------------------------- But that was not "the point" was it? The point is your assumption that Funakoshi was a "junior karateka" is not based in reality. And I show you why I think this is completely wrong. Remember Fahad, "the point" that must not be ignored? --------------------------------------------------------------- Your arguments about belts and spreading knowledge. Well.... that's Jigoro Kano, not Funakoshi. Funakoshi had used the principles of Kano who himself was influenced by John Dewey. Funakoshi Kano-fied Karate. That was the project. Belts, ranks, Gi, cross training, open sessions, international locations etc these are all from Kano. Not Funakoshil. Credit where credit is dude Eugenio. Kano is the one who changed all of martial arts. Not these other folks. Everyone else copied what Kano invented. All of these organizational structures are from Kano. --------------------------------------------------------------- Here you come again talking with assumed authority armed with half backed knowledge. Remember, this is not about "looking good on the internet" is about establishing the truth, and the truth is, well, none of the Karate masters back in Okinawa thought about make the necessary changes Karate needed to make to come to the XX century! None of them, none Fahad, none! How many Fahad? N O N E! Comprehende? Who applied all the necessary mesures was Funakoshi, nobody else, and yes, he did borrowed SOME of these changes from Kano, who was his close friend and I am sure he didn't mind let him use it (I dont particularly believe that Kano taught him high kicks, but you seem to love the guy so much that you might believe so). and "the point" (here is this cheeky word again), the point is that even borrowed ideas was too much for the Okinawa masters to apply, they are afraid of change, change is importante remember? Funakoshi could be like all those masters and insist in not changing anything! But he did change and the Okinawan masters like those ideas and so today all of them are wearing a Gi and a Belt. Change is hard Fahad, and take the right man to bring change. That is the point you are missing, Funakoshi did those changes, because he was MORE than a fighter, he was a scholar and educator. Motoku din't not had the necessary credentials and one succeeded and the other failed. You talk a lot about change, here is a good lesson about it. Let me refrase your sentence a little bit taking out you clear bias against Shotokan: --------------------------------------------------------------- Here is a reality check. Pure TRADITIONAL KARATE sucks in MMA and kickboxing. It simply sucks. It is weak. Lyoto Machida goes into great lengths on how he changed his training and style to adapt it to MMA. The same with Kyoji Horiguchi when he started training at Krazy Bee. In TRADITIONAL KARATE the bubble world created an artificial world where punches to the head and kicks to the legs are made illegal. Points are awarded based on contact and not amplitude. A soft jab to the chest scores the same as a power cross to the chest. These bubble world rules hinder real life fighting. Yes it is effective once adjustments are made, but not in it's raw sport TRADITIONAL KARATE form. Sport KARATE doesn't work. Lawrence in this video here shows that raw Karate was indeed inferior to raw Muay Thai. Raw Muay Thai in its pure form is superior to the Karate fighters that showed up. This is fact. Once the adjustments were made, they were no longer the Alpha Meme version of TRADITIONAL KARATE or the Alpha Meme version of Kyokushin. They mutated into something else. Kenji's style was effective after the mutations. Lyoto went through a similar transition as well. Lyoto has a highly accomplished champion in pure Alpha Meme Karate. He explains how it did not work for MMA. So he evolved. That's my point. We need to constantly evolve and develop. You have to have a reality check to what the empirical evidence shows. Otherwise you become delusional and don't evolve to be better. --------------------------------------------------------------- Fahad, if you play pingpong you will need adjustments to play tennis! Simple as that! Dont take a euGenious to know that don't you think? A Muay Thay fighter will have to go trough severe adjustments to play MMA. So what you saying is that Muay Thai is inferior to MMA? Yes, they are in the GAME of MMA, and they are simply put mere rules my friend, change the rules and the game change. Put concrete instead of padding in the ground and all the sudden Judo will become the new King of MMA. Change the time of the rounds to 30 min and BJJ will dominate again like in the 90's. You need to wake up and understand that is all Combat Sport, not reality and "inferior" and "superior" it's just a point of view based in the rules, not "facts". Why something simple like that need to be explained is beyond me. I never said karate don't need to evolve, what I said is that your prejudice against Shotokan is based in ignorance and lack of historical knowledge, a lack of knowledge that you are insisting on, doubling down on it!!! Looks like you need some "evolving" as well. Its really hard to understand why a person that believed in "the point" would take such lengths to write something completely missing "the point". I particularly would spend my time reading the text I send to you, see if makes sense, comparing it with the knowledge I previously had and see if they are "better knowledge", argument against something I found wrong and appreciate the free education I got, but instead lets whrite something completely unrelated to "give the guy a reality check" (looking good in the internet is so important after all). --------------------------------------------------------------- If you train in Shotokan that's great. It has lot of cool memes in there. But you must constantly learn to evolve. I wish you the best in your training. Stay safe. Keep your sparring partners safe. Stay away from Monkey Pox. Haha --------------------------------------------------------------- For me it doesn't matter what you train Falah, or what you dont train, what I really wish its a little bit of research and some healthy dose of skepticism on all information you posses, they are often wrong. The information I gave you is well research with direct quotations attached to them, it will help you to evolve. You talk a lot about memes Fahad. Memes are dumb! They are made by 13yrs old that play with nunchakus and have shurikens on top of their computer desk and mess with photoshop. Research takes time and care. Be well

[@fahadkelantan]

@@mrgsudoThere is clearly a lot of misunderstanding between through text. For example and this is a big one, the word Meme. You wrote: "Memes are dumb! They are made by 13yrs old that play with nunchakus and have shurikens"... I did not mean popular internet photos to be memes. I meant Meme as the original word was meant. The word Meme was coined by Biologist Richard Dawkins. The word Meme is like the word Gene. Genes are "Nature" passed down from generation to generation. He coined the word "Meme" to refer to "Nurture" passed down from generation to generation. You can read more about the scientific topic of Meme. I compared Martial Arts to Biology. Just as Genes evolve, so do Memes. Viruses' genes evolve from generation to generation, so do the Memes of Martial Arts from teacher to student. Lineages intermix, and you end up with hybrid Meme. A thing that is new. It's not Pure A or Pure B, but a hybrid mixture. Nice talking to you. Stay safe Eugenio.

[@madperrot]

Thank you for making these videos about the pursuit of truth in the martial arts. I spent my youth learning TKD, Shotokan Karate, Capoeira and some kung fu concepts a friend showed me. I mixed it all together and thought I could spar with real fighters. I almost got seriously hurt I took a full thai kick to the body, knee to the face, overhand right...it was really bad. So I joined an MMA gym and spent 7 years learning western boxing and muay thai. I was hungry to spar anyone at the gym, even mma fighters(so i was on the ground in seconds flailing trying to grapple). By the end of it I had got what I wanted. I would spar, have fun, learn and just be one of the guys. But as I moved on in life and just trained by myself, I never gave myself any credit for my trial by fire. But after watching your videos on why we get beat up, and the pursuit of truth....I feel confident and proud of my journey as a martial artist. Ive been through a lot lately. My best friend, my older brother and my grandmother have all passed away fairly close in time. Plus financial troubles. Your videos lately have been just what I needed to fight my new battle. Thank you 🥋

[@combatsportsarchive7632]

The most effective styles of Karate for modern era are Kyokushin Karate's upgraded derivatives which retain its hand strikes to the head and throws with a more modernized ruleset, especially Shidokan Karate and Seidokaikan Karate. Those descendant arts of Kyokushin Karate are better suited in the ring and freestyle fighting simply because they have further improved Kyokushin Karate by having a more realistic format (e.g. Jissen Kumite/ 'free fighting' and 'Glove Karate' ruleset) for full - contact strikes with head punches and grappling. Check out video called "Shidokan karate highlights" for example. They are the closest things to Mas Oyama's vision of 'Strongest Karate' but for modern times.

[@MaloneysDigest]

This is by far the best combat sport channel on KZbin

[@mtmatt6111]

Really informative video. I love how they took what they learned from a difficult set back and turned it into success - really good lesson for life.

[@LawrenceKenshin]

Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching!

[@ddjay1363]

I studied Sorinji Kempo. I've sparred with practitioners of Goju Ryu Karate. Those Goju Ryu guys punch and kick HARD, and I mean HARD. I've been launched 'across a room' more than once ! Still, I have caught them out a few times as well, as Sorinji Kempo has a lot more to it than kicks and punches. In all our classes we all had to go through 3 mandatory stages: Techniques Kata Kumite God bless Dohin So. 🙂

[@Slyfox1775]

A lack of training against other styles and only sparing in one system is a bad idea . You need to adapt your art to all training styles and adjust accordingly..

[@LawrenceKenshin]

yes going against other systems important

[@daniel_thefuture8568]

changing the traditional for the functional, is the evolution of martial arts. Good job Lawrence

[@AdamAdamHDL]

Daiko juku (kudo) and Seido karate are also effective full contact styles.

[@LawrenceKenshin]

cheers

[@SeymoreSparda]

I think, to think that Kyokushin is the only single style that works is kinda, ehhh. First, let's not forget all the derivative styles that come from Kyokushin, especially those that have grappling too; Seidokaikan (K-1 base), Ashihara, Enshin, Shidokan, Satojuku, Kudo, etc. Heck, let's not forget how Kyokushin has sneaked its way through Muay Thai onto becoming Dutch Kickboxing, through Mejiro Gym long ago, and K-1. Not to forget, all of the other styles that spar and do full-contact combat, that are not derivatives of Kyokushin. Combat Sambo, Karate Combat. Heck, doesn't Shito-Ryu have quite a dominance in Karate Combat, aside from Kyokushin and Shotokan? Speaking of Shotokan, Lyoto Machida's, tho? If anything, I'd suggest you to create a discord on, in the search to become effective, Kyokushin visionaries have kinda focused on becoming too hard, stand-and-bang? And kinda missed the more nuanced aspects of Muay Thai from Muay Femur, Khao, Sok and Dtae, instead of mostly Muay Maat? I mean, I get it, western boxing works, focusing what you are good at is good strat, but come on. There are more things to fighting, than just fists. Especially in MMA, with grappling comes softness. Even Western Boxing has softness, with the shoulder-rolling, hand-trapping, etc.

[@franskoster9572]

@@SeymoreSparda I get what you're saying, but Seido, Kenshikai, Seido-kaikan, Oyama, and myriad others are offshoots of Kyokushin. No shame in that at all. I figure it's all kind of under a Kyokushin umbrella. Lawrence made specific mention of Machida in this video as an exception, and success in Karate Combat is success under a quite weird (not bad, just weird) rule set that disallows the type of low kick for which Kyokushin and its derivatives are known. (I will say that I really hate fighting people who are good at Shotokan and similar styles - their distance management and timing are superb.) The Mejiro Gym and Dutch kickboxing saga in general is more complicated than that, and if I remember correctly karate actually came before Muay Thai for the Dutch. My sources for this are training Seido and then Kenshikai under Shuseki Shihan William Oliver and, well, being Dutch.

[@SeymoreSparda]

@@franskoster9572 Bro, a full-enlightenment on this whole Kyokushin-Muay Thai-Dutch Kickboxing thing, someone ought to make one, at least! "More complicated" just doesn't cut it!

[@franskoster9572]

@@SeymoreSparda I've thought about doing one myself actually, but I don't know enough yet. Plus there are some contradictory stories out there. Next time I am in Amsterdam I hope to speak to some of the gym owners.

[@prvtthd401]

The video I have requested multiple times. It is by far my most favorite historical development.

[@LawrenceKenshin]

cheers!

[@paulellis8456]

Honestly, no martial art system dominates another it comes down to how much work you put into your self and your craft.

[@sonduong5802]

As a matter of fact Muay Thai dominates other martial arts in the ring

[@paulellis8456]

@@sonduong5802 Andy Hug is a perfect example of what I’m saying. That man ate Thai fighters for a late night snack. Why… cause he worked his @ss off towards his craft. That’s a very closed minded statement friend

[@paulellis8456]

@@sonduong5802 Benny Urquidez. Kenpo… again ate up Thai fighters. Bas Rutten is rooted in taekwondo. Very dangerous man period. I could keep going. And I’m not taking anything away Maui Thai, it’s a good system. But no martial art dominates another one. Let it sink for a second and you see what I mean.

[@chrishooper8260]

@@paulellis8456 I think you'll find Urquidez was Shotokan. Which from what I see many others were derived from and trained by their instructors. He also did a lot of other martial arts. A wonderful martial artist and fighter.

[@paulellis8456]

@@chrishooper8260 yes you are correct, he also is just as good in kenpo as he is in shotokan. But I’m partial to American kenpo 👍

[@dakentaijutsu2010]

One of the most effective styles of Karate (if not the most) Kyokushin, I really love this, and most your videos, especially on Muay Thai!

[@SaikouKarate]

Very nice video, it would have been nice if you included Mas Oyama's reasoning for disallowing hand strikes to the head. To Oyama, Karate is about making your body into a weapon. That fundamentally means that using protective gear (gloves, handwraps) is off the table. At the core that's how the style is meant to be practiced and where the many techniques present in the system have a logical place. However a style with no form of protective gear that allows hand strikes to the head leads to poor longevity, and since he would never compromise on the empty hand nature of the art, this is the direction it went. There are branches of Kyokushin today that allow open-hand strikes to the head, and there are also those that have 2 rulesets - a gloved one with handstrikes to the head alongside the standard bareknuckle knockdown ruleset. Then ofcourse there are many who only do the latter one as well.

[@oguzmen5451]

Thank you Lawrence | For those further interested I severely suggest Master Motobu Choki. Hope you are some day able to delve into Goju Ryu Karate.

[@diegogatjens1728]

I love how one of the most brutal attacks in mixed martial arts is called the "Hug Tornado"....and it has nothing to do with hugs!

[@MrGlobalfugitive]

it has everything to do with Andy Hug ;)

[@diegogatjens1728]

@@MrGlobalfugitive what a legend, real life action movie character.

[@DenshaOtoko2]

Ashihara and Enshin, Kudo and Goju are good fight oriented Karate styles too.

[@dimavlasiuk4220]

good luck finding a dojo for these though

[@dakentaijutsu2010]

@@dimavlasiuk4220 depends on what country, I live in the US, and I think there are very few Ashihara, Enshin, and Kudo dojos here!

[@r1t545]

I am Japanese, and even in Japan, where karate and judo are popular, Muay Thai is recognized as the strongest standing martial art.

[@LawrenceKenshin]

thanks for sharing!!

[@mastertroso]

i love martial arts and i took different martial arts training since my younger years. i trained shotokan for 2 years when i was a teenager. then i took boxing and aikido for about 6 months in my late 20s. aikido was good for street fights but i felt a bit bored because i like hardcore martial arts training. then i stumbled into muay thai and kyokoshin in my mid 30s. i cross trained on both discipline for less than a year before i focused on kyokushin a few years. i wanted to try tae kwon do and judo in my early years but i was not given the opportunity to do so. no disrespect to other martial arts but i based on my experience i think muay thai, kyokushin and boxing would dominate in a one to one combat. i'm not sure about krav maga, wrestling and jujitsu because i didn't train those discipline though i would love the opportunity to train krav maga. muay thai has a very few weakness if no weakness at all. kyokushin karate is tough and powerful but it rarely use the elbow strikes and has little head movement. boxing is very good as well, fast, slick and agile unfortunately it doesn't use the legs for striking. shotokan karate and tae kwon do are fast but i think not that strong enough because they emphasize on quick strikes due to point system in sparring and tournaments, and that is their main flaw especially in a real hand to hand combat or in a kick boxing match. if i can do it all over again i would start training first tae kwon do for at least a year to train my legs for faster kicking. then i would shift to kyokushin for a few years to strengthen and toughen my body. then i would train boxing for about a year for faster punching and good head movement before i switch to muay thai to polish my striking skills. i would also take judo and aikido lessons for basic grappling and possible street fights. in street fights you rarely fight on the ground because you want to finish the fight as fast as possible while standing up so i dont think i would take jujitsu. thanks for your video. peace and respect. OSU

[@dababy4182]

Yes, the world of kickboxing would not be the same without Kyokushin and its offshoots. I agree - Seidokaikan and Kyokushin truly transformed the world of combat sports. As a 1st Dan, I'm proud of what we achieved in the past But it's also time for Kyokushin to move on to the next chapter. I left the dojo to learn boxing and muay thai. I'm sick and tired of most of the KK guys living in the glory of K1 days. It's over, time to move on. Kudo and Shidokan rules should be the future of KK, but majority of KK refuse to adapt. Not the spirit of Sosai Oyama at all. If KK keeps going on its current route, then I will discourage youngsters from learning it. Go do muay thai, judo, wrestling or something.

[@dababy4182]

@bo xer fair enough. doubt we need more lawyers though lol

[@erwinsmit440]

Any form of karate background will be usefull in my opinion. Especially for balance. As a kid karate & taekwondo didn't give me enough possibilities in close up situations. When you were meeting a (kick) boxer or Muay Thai guy it was getting difficult. Savate training helped me a lot in that regard. By the way i love the Kyokushin style of fighting, for me the elite style of Karate. Highly efficiënt.

[@LawrenceKenshin]

Thanks for sharing !

[@IIIIIlllllIIIIIlllllIIIII]

Kyoji Horiguchi and Lyoto Machida are both Shotokan karateka. Whittaker is a Goju-Ryu stylist. Not a single Kyokushin guy has made it as far in MMA. GSP became primarily a wrestler after he transitioned to MMA.

[@enterurnamehere27]

Idk, many top kickboxing fighters have kyokushin-based style

[@IIIIIlllllIIIIIlllllIIIII]

@@enterurnamehere27 Kyokushin and Kyokushin-derived styles generally translate well to kickboxing. As far as pure striking is concerned, it's a great form of karate. But MMA is different. Even in Karate Combat, where takedowns are allowed, Kyokushin fighters haven't found much success compared to fighters from other styles.

[@enterurnamehere27]

@@IIIIIlllllIIIIIlllllIIIII how can Muay Thai do well in MMA tho?

[@MatthewNguyen-zx3de]

@@enterurnamehere27 It doesn't. Very few Nak Muays come into MMA and succeed. The striking of MMA is not even proper Muay Thai, but a washed down version that's more kickboxing with calf kicks. Very few guys actually do the shit we love about MT, like teeps, clinches, legit Thai round kicks and etc. Even Anderson Silva who is vaunted for it, is more of a hybrid boxer TKD guy that dabbles with the the Thai Plum, which you never actually see in real Muay Thai because no one is that weak to fall for it there.

[@MatthewNguyen-zx3de]

@@IIIIIlllllIIIIIlllllIIIII Yep. The cage is big and spacey, which is better for fleet footed point fighters who love to use distance and timing to get their hits in. The preference for staying out of range to potshot and counter is also far better for strikers when takedowns are involved. If you try open up with combos and brawling, you invite the takedown. The knockdown stuff is perfect for the ring though because you don't worry about your opponent running too much or trying to duck and tackle you. You can dogfight and win with your better combinations and committed striking.

[@mizukarate]

I would like to mention that the way you become excellent is in how you train. Simply put train based on your needs.

[@mizukarate]

If your needs are combative sports you need to include head strikes. If your doing self-defense and health based martial arts then head strikes need to be limited.

[@dobiqwolf]

Very good video about karate, its different styles and their respective effectiveness (or lack of it...). I love how you explained the influence it had on modern combat sports. I started with kickboxing then went in Kyokushin, the wrong way :). Kyokushin training is on a different level even for new starters compared to kickboxing.

[@solid_fire9388]

Kyokushin Karate is the best, Osu ! great video

[@DrunkenDarwin]

What I don't get is Karate traditionally trains its punches to the chest because it's actually the same range as the chin so altering the trajectory would be easy. It's just safer for bareknuckle training to aim at the chest as I understood the history.

[@muskratrepairservices7701]

Been a fan for a long time; Iknow you were reluctant to include your voice for a while. Just want to say it really cheers me that you do so now, puts a smile on my face when ai hear it, and that you’re continuing to make such great stuff. Keep it up, buddy!

[@LawrenceKenshin]

Wow, thank you for the long time support!

[@superchili9057]

Bro, it's not the style, it's all about you how well you can perform in a fight using specific style such as Karate, Tae Kwon Do, Khmer Kickboxing, Thai Kickboxing, Chinese Boxing and so on.. Andy Hug and Fedor Emelianeko stated it before

[@vuquanghuy4584]

name one fighter that use Chinese Boxing to deal with Muay Thai and Kickboxing without eating punch and lose to them. And do not mention Sanda - which is a form of kickboxing. It's all about style, human make the style, so if no one can represent their own style in the combat (like wing chun, tai chi....) then that style is a scam

[@superchili9057]

@@vuquanghuy4584 I, Chinese kickboxing and Chinese boxing won 4 fights against Vietnamese and Latinos Muay Thai fighting styles.

[@greekmacedonia7168]

@@vuquanghuy4584 style separate man.. bruce lee

[@bigsarge1982]

Kyokushin is a bare knuckle knockdown karate style, but it's not the only style that way. I came up in Yoshukai which has the same rule sets. You may want to adjust your statement.

[@wingoreviewsboxingandmma3667]

As far as I was taught from elders is that Japanese kickboxing and Dutch kickboxing by extension was a mix of kyokushin karate and western boxing with no inside influence from muay thai other than as rival opponents kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y4WwZneMoKZ_qsU Old school martial artist started in the 60s and 70s explains it in this video

[@vuquanghuy4584]

Uhmah fightcamp pull his so-called history out of his ass, he act like he understand every style and try to explain them like an expert, but when he really show what his student is being taught, everything is MCDOJO

[@itzbebop]

Martial arts is the pursuit of truth Truer words have never been spoken.

[@ZAKU73]

Great video! Kyokushin for life. Osu! Don't forget late Peter Smit KO Changpuek Kiatsongrit in the first match and robbed on points in the rematch also Gerard Gordeau, teammate of Peter Smit from Dutch 1987 Kyokushin World Championship team was a runner up in the UFC 1

[@LawrenceKenshin]

thanks bro!

[@josemucarselsacoto5122]

Vamos! Thanks master Kenshin ! 🤜👊🤛⚔️

[@LawrenceKenshin]

🙏🙏

[@darawanchomnok8334]

Oyama vs bull = epic 😂

[@LawrenceKenshin]

super

[@JivecattheMagnificent]

Maaayte, watching this makes me wish there was a Kyokushin school in Bristol, or somewhere close to me. Big props on the video, bro, new sub here.

[@LawrenceKenshin]

thanks a lot! Welcome to the channel

[@JivecattheMagnificent]

@@LawrenceKenshin Cheers mate! What's funny is after that I did actually manage to find a club that's (sort of) local to me, ahahah!

[@kratoscraken5614]

I don't think karate dominates, its the calibers of the person using it 👍

[@LawrenceKenshin]

that is true, but style matters too

[@kratoscraken5614]

@@LawrenceKenshin style as far as what?

[@kratoscraken5614]

@@LawrenceKenshin I've seen guys train for years in the same form and 1 is better at something else then another. I've seen black belts get their asses handed to them so the style or form doesn't matter it's all on the person

[@damien8713]

@@kratoscraken5614 Efficiency of a style, as everything that can be tested in controlled environnement, is matter of statistic. In every discipline, you can find a fighting genius. When someone speak about efficiency of a practice, he must look at the overall results. For crude example, in a grappling competition, do boxers have great results ? It seems not so boxing is not efficiency for grappling according to the results (pretty obvious) even if some boxers can throw their opponents in the ground.

[@kratoscraken5614]

@@damien8713 ok 👌

[@kailokusudai5085]

Some hours ago I was just thinking how Karate can be good, the timing of this upload was helpful, thanks 🙏

[@LawrenceKenshin]

cheers

[@BorninPurple]

Standing in front of each other and just taking shots isn't great, especially when trying to keep those IQ points (something dutch kickboxers do with gloves). I'd rather play smart than play tough.

[@LawrenceKenshin]

you need it to a certain extent! But yes I agree being able to control long range is key to longevity

[@AroundElvesWatchUrselves96]

Dutch Style came from Kyokushin.

[@LawrenceKenshin]

@@AroundElvesWatchUrselves96 yep

[@OpnDoarPlcy]

It’s good to know how to fight in the pocket when you have to but it’s best not to stay there too long if you can manage distance with well aimed shots.

[@craiganbrooks1485]

I absolutely agree with you. Martial arts is more about the individual and how well they can adapt their style to the situation that they are in more than just the style itself. You have to have some knowledge in all things and situations. 💯

[@raresmocanu1743]

After some time training Muay Thai, I kinda wanna switch to something with fancy samurai pajamas again. And a Kyokushin derivative just might be it.

[@rustyshackleford735]

Kyokushin is a top notch style, the punching to the body thing often leaves them vulnerable to head punching attacks, as well as not typically training for sweeps and throws the tend to have weak takedown defense as well, unless they make alterations to their style, I'd argue that enshin karate is the often overlooked, but ultimately most effective singular style of karate.🤷

[@LawrenceKenshin]

KK is awesome!

[@rustyshackleford735]

@@LawrenceKenshin it is, but I'd argue enshin is better, it's just a much newer and less known style.

[@johnathons1789]

@@rustyshackleford735 Damn it Dale

[@rustyshackleford735]

@@johnathons1789 are you attempting to know me?

[@qazmko22]

This was a very interesting video! I didn't realize that maybe people have been trying to update karate for modern combat sports.

[@frankszulakiewicz5826]

That's why we now have Karate Combat, and Shotokan does very well.

[@MaximilianoMendes]

Another great son of kks karate is kudo. Which is not perfect, btw, but getting rid of those kata to add grappling was a great idea.

[@wayneaustin5533]

It doesn't

[@user-cn7wy7xx5k]

exactly kyokushin is bullshit

[@stevenherberts968]

Your videos never fail to impress me Lawrence, thanks again for another interesting video to watch, looking forward to more.

[@exen3980]

Japanese karateka's/kickboxers starting to do well againts Muay thai, also them: *Trains under Muaythai*

[@LawrenceKenshin]

haha yes.

[@iROChakri]

Muay thai is pretty much a foundation of most modern striking arts ... so

[@AroundElvesWatchUrselves96]

False . Most of them train the Japanese style or Dutch style.

[@exen3980]

@@AroundElvesWatchUrselves96 Which one is false?

[@bunnyofdoom4501]

Amaze as always. I can't help but to to think of Ryu and Sagat when watching this.

[@LawrenceKenshin]

thank you brother!

[@Jesusislord4569]

Jesus is the only truth Amen

[@bobbyfischer4557]

Amen

[@mikhailvasiliev6275]

Currently training in kickboxing, but I do one day hope to transition to karate once I become proficient enough at the combat sport.

[@cynfaelalek-walker7003]

Didn't you have a series based entirely on how Muay Thai utterly Annihilates Karate?

[@columodonnell9202]

Most of those karate fighters were point fighters or other kind of semi-contact fighters

[@LawrenceKenshin]

If you think that you haven't actually watched a diversified selection of my vids

[@cynfaelalek-walker7003]

@@LawrenceKenshinsome karate practitioners that you've shown were really great, but most of them implement Kickboxing into their style.

[@cynfaelalek-walker7003]

Hey, so I watched more of your videos and I must say that I regret my previous comments and wish to apologize and thank you for opening my eyes into something that I now am passionate about​@@LawrenceKenshin

[@darekt4613]

Kudo karate imho brings some nice options as well - combination of judo, kyokushinkay and boxing - love it

[@Bigdawg69713]

Muay Thai has the worst fanbase always disrespecting other martial arts and brags about how good mt Is

[@AroundElvesWatchUrselves96]

It's sad lol

[@LawrenceKenshin]

how so

[@Joobkl]

I train Muay Thai and respect other arts. In fact want to learn some Karate

[@alexmercer4515]

Great video man, all Karatékas should watch this video to take to heart the lessons what makes Karate effective

[@OkurkaBinLadin]

Kyokushin is right now likely the ONLY system, that teaches students how to deal and recieve full power bare knuckle punches with relative safety.

[@Stratcatblue]

The biggest problem for all of the traditional martial arts was western boxing and kickboxing. The reason is because there was nothing in the original playbooks to prepare for the elusive footwork, and rapid combinations of a great boxer. The martial artists solved this problem later on when the modern tactical martial arts came onto the scene. Primarily, BJJ, Muay Tai, combined with kickboxing.

[@landoftheninja]

I know every karate guy says this but I really like the kind of shotokan that I took up. It teaches it in more or it's Okinawan form rather than Japanese. Lot's of throws, super heavy lead leg stance, heavy utilization of hikite and being very aggressive when you do come forward after distance control. Been doing some kickboxing too and I have some pretty good luck for my skill level

[@LawrenceKenshin]

it can be effective just not for most people

[@landoftheninja]

@@LawrenceKenshin also let it be said Im not a fighter 😅 just a dude who loves martial arts.

[@싸울희망]

@@landoftheninja kzbin.info/www/bejne/mXnOe2Z3mcZ_ras

[@싸울희망]

@@landoftheninja this kind of karate?

[@rosabraba3345]

still no mention of Francisco Filho: the first to complete the 100 man kumite without needing to be hospitalized, first foreign to win the world kyokushin championship, K-1 champion, he simply demolished Andy Hug every time they fought

[@darthclone7]

wow thank you for this! first time ive heard of Toshio Fujiwara, my god what an amazing dynamic fighter.. so elusive and an agressive switch hitter my new favorite fighter to study!!! im so inspired right now thankyou!

[@BlueMax109]

I have never heard anyone before speaking about martial arts as a pursuit of truth - but it does explain why I have become obsessed with it. Because I am obsessed with the truth.

[@Fenrir-np9js]

Box and karate is a great mix

[@donutcarrotall3258]

Really inspiring video. I appreciate all the details.

[@LawrenceKenshin]

Glad you enjoyed it!!

[@pumkinmuscles1104]

Very informative. The irony that they claimed the pursuit of the truth yet when Kenji suggested more head protection should be prioritized it was rejected and developed his own style.

[@ZenseiRevolution]

Last shots are for MY legendary master Judd Reid,

[@wasabi5338]

kyokushin used to allow bareknuckle punches to the head. Oyama was forced to choose between removing face punches or getting gloves due to amount of injuries.

[@Bazilisk_AU]

“When a martial art allows full contact, delusion is erased from reality” I fucking Love this line.

[@ronki23]

I like Goju Ryu and Kyokushin even though I don't do either. The reason I like the former is it has throws and sweeps while the latter is effective against Muay Thai. I did kickboxing, Goshin Ryu Ju Jitsu, judo, and wrestling.

[@yossefgabay5633]

Actually Muay thai influence on kickboxing resides in rules and system but its mainly a blend of Western boxing and various karate (especially kyokushin but tetsuo yamada was a kempo karate practicioner was the real pioneer of kickboxing)