Why Dutch Kickboxing Dominates

[@LawrenceKenshin]

What do you think of the Dutch Kickboxing style and how does it do against Muay Thai? The legend of Dutch Kickboxing is as epic as it comes. Their elite fighters fight with their whole heart, giving awe to every spectator with their powerful combination striking. To understand how it became so dominant in all full contact combat sports, we need to understand the history and the way they train. This episode is a tribute to that. Free Legendary Strategies: www.lawrencekenshin.com/

[@PHATT_TV]

@Lawrence Kenshin Striking Breakdowns When I trained at a gym in Melbourne (Hangar 4 MMA) we trained Muay Thai & Dutch style interchangeably. Our head Coach & gym owner fought in both & found both Arts to have their pros & cons so then we would be prepared for whatever came our way in the ring. Primarily the way we usually trained was majority Thai techniques most days & Dutch 1-2 days a week, and each day starting from Monday onwards our sparring amped up. By Friday, Saturday etc we were having full gym wars. Great for advancing quicker than Thai’s who trained from 5-6 years old, not great for CTE though 😂.

[@SkreltNL]

Against Muay Thai? Horrible! Ramon Dekkers was great because he walked through everything. Example, Dekkers had 2 fights within 13 days against Thai's. Yes, 5-10 kilo weight advantage BUT he broke his ankle in the first fight. Went to hospital were the doctor gave him 2 choices. 1) normal cast, meant no fight. Ramon chose 2) well the foot to the shin. I am not kidding. The guy fought the 2nd fight, 13 days later with his foot welded to his shin and he kickd... he kicked like his life depended on it. That is Ramon Dekkers, Heart of a Lion. In general, and you can ask this to the Thai's, Dutch fighters are afraid off elbows, hate clinching & get swept easy. And now look at Glory's ruleset. Its tailor made to make dutch kickboxing look good.

[@PHATT_TV]

@@SkreltNL 100% there is a lot of truth to this. Doesn’t hurt to learn your opponents style though. I still to this day use some Dutch style(aggressive) blocking towards kicks, & aggression but you are correct with less rules Thai’s dominate majority of the time. Hence why if I had to choose 1, Muay Thai all the way.

[@SkreltNL]

@@PHATT_TV 100% agreed

[@Kzany42]

@@PHATT_TV but dutch kickboxing is superior in combinations the rest muay thai is better

[@Lionheart_Kickboxing]

Hard sparring the way the Dutch tend to is what caused so many injuries that ended my career when I was competing. My team hard sparred every day and after 5 years I burned out. I didn’t want to fight or compete anymore after 5-6 concussion, a torn cornea in my right eye, fracture ribs, broke nose and loss of smell, dislocated elbow and blown right knee. Not one of those injuries came from my matches. It came from bad training practices where we did full mma with small gloves and no shin guards and ALL techniques allowed at fight intensity.

[@henryhoover3953]

Thanks for your perspective! Mabye i will go thailand instead 👍

[@TreyCuskey]

it's all money in the bank my friend.

[@TreyCuskey]

@joe blogs what?

[@TreyCuskey]

@@brandonholsather2171 a lot of “dojos” as they’re called in the us are just a money grab. But look at the Thais and the way they touch spar for timing/accuracy and conditioning. It’s phenomenal. However I don’t think there is one correct way of training champs come from all disciplines and backgrounds

[@Lionheart_Kickboxing]

@@brandonholsather2171 It did toughen me up To a point and that carried me through life and my military time but it also killed my passion for competition. And now being older and teaching I realize there where better methods to get you to the same place without as much damage. Now my students start light and careful and we increase intensity over time as they reach milestone. I have 1 student who went firm no kickboxing experience at all. To now going 70-80 percent every session with me and higher level people and has suffer only minor injuries and no concussions. All within 2 years. He will be doing his first kickboxing competition this year with a couple others. They are just as tough and fierce as I was when I started competing but they have so much less damage and they work smarter than I ever did.

[@joecantrell4734]

I just came back from the Netherlands training for 2 weeks heading back in August for a month I love it

[@Casloveskim]

Nice, what gym you visited

[@joecantrell4734]

Sb Gym Sityodtong Amsterdam El Otmani and Patrick’s Gym

[@EricvanDorp191]

So you went to fight the Dutch. How many days do you stayed horizontal to recover?

[@joecantrell4734]

@@EricvanDorp191 I am not sure if you are trying to be an ass or not but I said trained never said fight and I was fine

[@ca-jf3ey]

Part of the success story is that the Dutch kickboxing pioneers were very eclectic. As they were not bound to tradition, they just picked what worked and only kept the effective parts of different styles.

[@owenwright4927]

Well not exactly there still pretty bad at clinching and elbows but yeah if they continue adapting like they are doing now they’ll be a huge contender for the Thais

[@andymudhoney]

I’ve trained with couple of guys who had the mentality of going all in “Dutch style” in sparring. Typically they would say “let’s go easy” and then suddenly explode. I used to hate that, it only made us wanna revenge on each other all the time. Needles to say that some bones were sacrificed for regular sparring sessions. Going all in is fine as long as it’s mutually agreed and doesn’t “just randomly happen”. If you’re experienced, you can naturally take it but for some it means game over for good.

[@Maeggoel]

Hard sparring is fine. But saying "let's go light", and then don't. Fuck those guys. I'm fine with going hard, but don't say we go light first. That's the sparring equivalent of a suckerpunch.

[@ghengiskhan9308]

the dutch training reminds me of the bulgarian weightlifting program lol

[@kaizenproductions00]

@@ghengiskhan9308 Basically "If he dies, he dies"

[@psychshift]

Sparring should never be daunting, always look after your sparring partner. Train hard but smart and safe. Save hurting each other for actual fight/competition.

[@setiarinilubis2363]

@@psychshift that why Thai Sparring is way safety.

[@WolframtheBlessed3499]

I read a book by Tris Dixon called "Damage: the Untold truth of Brain damage in Boxing" where he mentions that a lot of the damage that comes to boxer's brain is done in the countless hours of hard sparring that show up later in his life. A case in point is Wilfredo Benitez who became the youngest world champion at 17 and couldn't feed himself from the brain injury in his mid thirties.

[@Shinreetlegna]

Yeah I've been thinking about these type of things. I've seen some of the people who done conditioning in their earlier years have uncontrollable shaking in their older years. Understandle to train a certain way if your environment requires you to be able to defend yourself. But ultimately nowdays people watch combat sports because of the entertainment factor. At the end of the day is a persons health and well being worth going through all the training, fighting only to end up in a situation as you mentioned. I think of Ronnie Coleman, he says he doesn't regret that he is in the condition he is now, but surely he wishes that he could go hiking with kids or grandchildren, and enjoy the beauty of this world. I slowed down on my training because I started becoming antisocial, using the gym as an excuse not to enteract with people, but I eventually came to the realisation that it wasn't good for me. It's an interesting aspect to Martial Arts, the discipline, fitness and mental health rewards are good, but I now I question life long consequences for the individual or those they may injure or even kill.

[@LawrenceKenshin]

Thanks for sharing

[@LECityLECLEC]

really important intel thanks for this! :( how is he atm?

[@fteambjj]

This is why i just do bjj now days. Sore body and joints but i wont have brain damage. I do miss stand up, i might try do kyokushin just for the body conditioning training but avoid the head kick training if possible

[@omegasquad868]

the funny thing is the Thais do not have these types of common trauma and they fight more overall but spar very light in contact other than just boxing only

[@ianmpena]

Can you guys create Comparing video about different types of kickboxing like Muay Thai and American kickboxing and dutch kickboxing and sanda like what's the difference between their kicks and stance and techniques

[@LawrenceKenshin]

yes absolutely, thanks for the great suggestion

[@PHATT_TV]

Excellent suggestion!

[@macacofrito]

Yes, Sanda would be a great topic

[@iROChakri]

Pretty much all the same with Muay thai (kick boxing). All of them have Muay thai basic and they differentiate by adding other techniques. The comment above mine is pretty accurate.

[@Tempest2228]

American kickboxing is very interesting as well. As from what I can see is an amalgamation of many different ways of striking influenced by boxing, karate (shotokan, goju ryu, and many others), taekwondo (hapkido, kuksool won, etc and kung-fu (northern shaolin, southern shaolin etc)

[@BlakeMcCringleberry]

Buakaw eating a spinning heel kick at the end and just shaking it off is insane.

[@LawrenceKenshin]

For sure

[@neokimchi]

my kyokushin gym also teaches Dutch style--but we keep the hard sparring to the kyokushin where we can go hard without as much risk of head trauma, and our kickboxing classes teach dutch style technique and drills but with a more flowy sparring style. imo it's the best of both worlds

[@hecbec]

As it should be.

[@TheMathPipe]

As beneficial as the hard sparring may be it’s also the styles detriment. Most Dutch kickboxers don’t have long careers and if they do they are highly susceptible to losing via KO later in their careers. Not to mention the CTE that can affect one later.

[@funnyv6048]

This is basically Badr Hari in a nutshell, started really young, but racked up too much damage on the chin, now all his last fights even thought he dominates from the start, as soon as he gets hit with one significant strike he is done

[@Brandovichie]

@@funnyv6048 who do you think will win the upcoming badr/overeem fight

[@funnyv6048]

@@Brandovichie Whoever gets clocked on the chin first loses I guess, they are both glass cannons

[@unknownentity8256]

@@funnyv6048 Yeah it's sudden death match 😂💀

[@IceCubE4425]

@@funnyv6048 Dont know why if they sparr that hard, they wear headgear, like a majority of boxers do for hard sparring. Not like the Dutch style is known for head kicks, it wont obscure their vision that much

[@carlospaloma9324]

As a former student from Perry Ubeda I read a lot of comments that I do not confirm. "Dutch" kickboxing is of high level, but it can be executed at every level. Beginners or amateurs don't spar hard if they don't want to. I do apreciate the regognition of the hard work our Dutch fighters put in.

[@JW-Handle]

Another great video, awesome! I'll add my thoughts to the many already posted here. I'm Dutch, have been training mma and kickboxing for close to seven years, train mma at a gym in Amsterdam (grappling oriented) and kickboxing in another gym close to Amsterdam. The trainer is a good buddy of Ernesto Hoost, 'old school' guy. The kickboxing trainings are extreme in the sense of conditioning and mental toughness, the trainer is rarely satisfied and you are always pushed to the extreme. (but I guess thats sport coaches for you :-) Every training we practice Dutch drills as shown in the video, you pair up mostly randomly with others, it can be a dude the size of a windmill, or a teenage girl a head shorter than you. The combinations start simple and are gradually expanded every time, a lot of focus on countering, at least where I train. And yes, ending a combo with a low kick (and then backing off to create distance) is very common. We spar every training, especially when tired, those Dutch drills at high pace/intensity wear you down. We do not however, (always) spar at a 100% as shown in some of the clips! It's usually its hard to the body, 30-40% to the head. Also it will depend on your sparring partner, usually you spar 30-60 seconds, then switch to someone else. You are expected to adjust intensity based on your next sparring partner (age/sex/skill level) The groups consist of both competitive fighters and those who train recreational to stay fit /sharp. The hard sparring you see in some clips is usually guys who are training for fights, there is a difference between gyms as well, but most gyms have seperate training classes for competitive fighters. Here the sparring can be brutal, I've sometimes joined and was absolutely battered after. Of course, sparring sometimes gets a bit venomous, when someone hits you just a little too hard, tempers can flare and you counter back, and this can have a stacking effect. I'm typing this with one black eye, as just this occurred last training. However, this is not the norm!! You are expected to behave respectfully and you can expect a high lvl guy to sort you out during sparring if you keep up being a douchebag 😅 Anyhow, this turned into a wall of text, hoping it is of interest to you. By all means, if you ever have the chance to train here in the Netherlands, go for it!! Like I said, the extreme hard sparring clips online are definitely not the norm, and we have plenty of foreigners train with us and they are always pleasantly surprised. Also, the NL has one the highest percentage of English speakers, so don't worry about not speaking Dutch. Have fun, osu! 👊

[@east30]

Exactly they have a lot of urban about training here

[@giorgiociaravolol1998]

I'd really like to train dutch styles, but I fear a lot these type of gyms and their notorious gym bullies. Plus I'm an engineer so I really need that brain lol

[@bunnyofdoom4501]

Yooo... you nailed it. Dutch style with clinch and elbows is my favorite. Way to break it down for those who need a clearer understanding.

[@LawrenceKenshin]

cheers!

[@GeertTheys]

I was doing Thai boxing in the glory days. As Belgian we went a lot to Holland to their gyms. To come home battered and bruised after training sessions. Bloody nose, black eyes, bruised legs even had bruised ribs on occasion. Going back to high school looking like that many questions were asked ;) I was a 67kg fighter and sparred against heavy weights wo knocked my out even when I was covering up. Mental fortitude is build which still serves me in later life.

[@lebell79]

yup, geen gewichtsklasses in sparren, gewoon gaan. is goed voor je karakter.haha.

[@crisalcantara7671]

@@lebell79 klopt

[@paulusborg243]

I trained for years in the Netherlands, I am a Dutchman. muay thai kickboxing. KB Arnhem , Trained by Fred Royers. There was respect for each other. But we heard of Kickbox schools where you were not allowed to train with shin guards for the first two months because it made you hard. Big nonsense, because you will get injuries. There are very good schools where people train very hard and there are schools where people beat hard. But the nature of this sport means that, with exceptions, you don't have a long career. It is intensive, explosive and very hard.

[@apexcroix1307]

I'm thankful that I learned this style of striking. The combinations of this style is super effective.

[@LawrenceKenshin]

nice brother, who did you learn from?

[@markmessi9020]

@@LawrenceKenshin From Lawrence Kenshin 😉

[@apexcroix1307]

@@LawrenceKenshin I learned from Mr. Stroeven, who trained at Mejiro Gym before moving to the Philippines.

[@kermit1211]

@@apexcroix1307 he’s here in the Philippines right now? Where can I find him?

[@apexcroix1307]

@@kermit1211 Cebu City

[@aaronwalker9988]

I’m loving this series going into each styles effectiveness and history, keep it up 👍

[@LawrenceKenshin]

thank you for sharing!

[@iROChakri]

Duct kickboxing is pretty much a combination if Muay thai, Boxing, and Karate. If you learn Muay thai. You can choose and adapt your style easily. For example, 1. You focus on elbow and clinch as well as knee, you're still doing Muay thai. 2. You focus more on boxing, you pretty much are already doing Dutch kickboxing. 3. You fight with bare hands, you are now doing Kyukushin. Put gloves on again, and then it becomes Japanese kickboxing. 4. You throw your opponent a lot in a kickboxing match, you already know how to do Chinese kickboxing Sanda. Muay thai being one of the oldest kickboxing styles with very old footage influences a lot of other kickboxing styles. Most modern kickboxings have Muay thai foundation built on it. Thats why most people cant see much differences between all kickboxings 👌

[@combatsportsarchive7632]

Diablo, I'd recommend you to check out my second video which titled "Full Contact Karate in Early MMA" for further investigation. Back then, I thought the original version of Kyokushin Karate and other hard styles of Karate are just made of punches and kicks. It turns out that they have other stuff such as open-hand strikes, throws, takedowns, grabbing/clinch fighting with the gi uniform and even joint locks. They wrecked a bunch of competitors in that open tournament ('All Nihon Martial Arts Championship' 1995) with very few rules that allowed full-contact strikes and grappling. It was somewhat similar to old Pancrase which was a prototype format for early MMA. However, the Karate dudes in that old footage either came from a breakaway group of Kyokushin Karate or its descendant arts such as Shidokan Karate and Seidokaikan Karate. The main federations of Kyokushin Karate don't use those other methods in their standard tournaments for some reason.

[@yongjiean9980]

Bro good analysis but do note that Sanshou, boxing, Dutch kickboxing and Kyokushin (and Japanese kickboxing) are different sports in their own right with different techniques, skills, stances, fight strategies in themselves which are outside of Muay Thai. Just a word - my gym teaches Muay Thai with a strong emphasis on kickboxing. The chief instructor is Dutch trained. So this Muay Thai is not traditional but we do learn elbow striking and clinching to throw knee kicks. I am not a fan of clinching but I learn as well to clinch and to deal with the clinch coz they are useful.

[@aym7n_10]

Knees are in kickboxing too

[@owenwright4927]

Spot on dude although I’d say Dutch kick-boxing is very similar to the muay matt style I personally am a muay matt and I think drawing from Dutch kickboxing combinations are a very lethal combination whilst training clinging and elbows

[@Havre_Chithra]

This is why I tell most people to train muay thai! Their sparring is more playful and less risky.

[@zdenekburian-bc9hm]

Ernesto Hoost,Ramon Dekkers,Rob Kaman,Remy Bonjasky,Peter Aerts and more legends...

[@bryanwcksn]

I used to train Dutch kickboxing. They almost certainly spar every class. even the drill is a warm up for an actual sparring. In the fighters classes, they spar heavy. Eventually, I couldnt take it anymore. I cant show up to work with stiff neck everyday hahaha..

[@mangoMango-ck3et]

I had one of Rob Kaman's training tapes,,from years ago,,,far out..he's a machine..he's one reason Dutch kickboxing is UP THERE..

[@NuttachaiTipprasert]

Ramon Dekker's name is still being treated with respect in Thailand even today.

[@terrelltownsend8016]

He's long gone, but his legacy lives on.

[@oguzmen5451]

Prefer a gym that doesn't actively hunt for my head, I guess the approach makes the difference. Many failed prospects of Dutch gyms were probably diamonds in the rough, and if communicated differently could've raised the bar for the Art like a shooting star. Flow like water not clank like an engine.

[@LawrenceKenshin]

i can see why you think that

[@1fadf23f]

And other countries can't find their diamonds because the lack of hard training. 2 sides to it. It's clear whats more succesful though

[@oguzmen5451]

@@1fadf23f hard training and Dutch style is different - Thai's do it properly imo

[@batmanfan2005]

Great video i hoped this would talk about it's history (of which i knew very little) and as usual you didn't disappoint with your information.

[@LawrenceKenshin]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@joejacquesschulz8514]

I was raised close to the Netherlands and I had a former Dutch kickboxer as a colleague. I was told that Dutch trainers would even use stun guns (the same things that are used to drive catlle in the slaughterhouse) to teach their kickboxers to avoid getting hit. Also I remember the Netherlands allowed the first MMA fight. That was already in the 80ies and German journal "Karate Revue" reported it. A kickboxer (wearing gloves) fought a bigger wrestler. The wrestler just ate all kicks and blows until the kickboxer tired down. Then the wrestler caught him and eventually strangled him unconscious from behind. The kickboxer elbowed the wrestler as long as he had sufficient oxygene to keep on. However, as expected the wrestler could strangle longer with hurting ribs than the kickboxer could use his elbows without breath. It was reportedly an ugly fight and everybody who watched it agreed they didn't want to see anything like that ever again. Yeah, otherwise MMA would be a Dutch franchise.

[@east30]

That's indian story lol. Training is tough and the level is very high because of the amount of competition. Trainers using stun guns is complete bogus, I live in the Netherlands and have been training for a long time and believe that has never happened anywhere. The trainer would have gotten arrested. This video isn't fully correct either, the sparring isnt what forged so many champions it was the amount of competition. Just like the thais back in the day there were competitions every week all over the country. So fighting a minimum of twice a month from youth was very normal. The difference between thailand and the netherlands is that the youth matches dont count on your professional record, the thais start counting from youth.

[@waterbuffalosick4735]

The Dutch go hard, right from the beginning in every training.

[@metrolinamartialarts]

Love this - it's why I love Dutch Kickboxing and the combos. Don't love the hard sparring but it's hard to argue against the results 😅

[@uso_Jus2SmooTh94]

Personally i prefer Dutch style over Muay Thai. Like the great Ramon Dekkers who imo is the greatest Dutch kickboxer ever. And then second in style tie with MT is sanda. I love to mix in that side kick with my combos and spinning backhand. But overall it's best to mix the best techniques from all styles that actually works. Better to be formless. Like water 👊🏻

[@groenpaardje]

Maybe it's the gym I went to, but even though the sparring was pretty hard, it was still very much not the idea to knock each other out. We'd definitely go pretty hard on the legs and body, but if the coach saw you going full force on somebody's head you'd for sure get a stern talking to or a time out. There is also respect between levels. If you fight a beginner you push them, but you don't overpower them, otherwise they, and you, learn nothing. You go the hardest with the people you know well, so you know what they can and cannot handle. With new people you'd try to keep it light until you understand each others level better. That said, I'm not planning on doing competition, I train for fun, so I prefer a bit more light and technical sparring. Luckily i'm going to Thailand soon, and am very much looking forward to learning that different perspective!

[@TheMylittletony]

Which gym was it?

[@bebephonesamsung7618]

There is only one way ....and thats the way of pain,suffering ,sweat and being exhaust after 5 rounds muay thai.

[@manus6702]

Awesome video as usual! Any chance you could make a video on Japanese kickboxing? I feel like they have a pretty unique style that’s not talked about enough (especially since most people only know the Dutch and Thai styles)

[@LawrenceKenshin]

yes check out my previous video

[@Bonezy1001]

He did it was the kyokushin video

[@predwards8941]

This was incredible. Some insane footage. As a “self taught” Muay Thai guy from Tennessee , this was a treat to watch and the Dutch are such legends in kickboxing!

[@wooptiedoo3538]

I trained Dutch kickboxing and boxing and had several trainers. The punches as opener and then the lowkick at the end is definitely Dutch style. Really enjoyed the hard trainings pushing the body to the maximum. Although the truth is many times I didn't want to train, but because of the discipline you keep going. And usually you're exhausted after a training, however the fulfillment you get afterwards is definitely worth it. Because of the conditioning your body will be able to take more hits. And with that comes a better defense. You won't really learn fighting if you don't feel the pain. Sparring is not always hard, it depends on who you're against and how much skill is involved.

[@leonvanwijngaarden2912]

Seems to work since lot's of fighters from other countries train in the Netherlands as well

[@nebu7612]

Hard saparring = injuries. I dont say its not good, but not for every day. Maybe some champs didnt make it to the top if they went for the knockout every single day with their gym mates. Great video!

[@LawrenceKenshin]

I agree with that !

[@bur3aawik141]

As a Dutchman this is my favourite so far. 👏🤜 Kenshin you’re the man

[@trenbear4469]

I'm a Dutch guy myself, and I guess our style of sparring helped our little country to get notorious in the kickboxing world. Personally I don't like the culture where everyone just fights each other, and the new and or/small guys just get beat up by guys who train longer or are bigger. I also train for self defence (in case something ever happens) for fun, and for cardio but don't have competition plans and also need to work the next day. It can be hard to find a kickboxing gym where you can train, let's say, three times a week without getting your ribs caved in, black eyes and a broken nose on a weekly basis. So I don't like the culture too much, but can't say it did not help to produce a lot of champions.

[@LawrenceKenshin]

I get that bro

[@Shinreetlegna]

Ironically it's something I always second guessed about over training, especially for self defense. What if you've over exerted yourself at training, that at the end of it you get onto a situation where you are to exhausted to use said self defense training. There are times where it is safe to do extensive strenuous training, but if you walk home by yourself after training in the evenings it's something to consider.

[@trenbear4469]

It's not the first time I have heard that reasoning. For me it's more of a thing like 'as a man I want to know how to fight', I never feel unsafe on the street, or at work or at home for that matter. But I would be kinda ironic if I get injured in kickboxing training, then run into some crazy attacker later who beats me easily because of my injury 😅

[@JoshAllenberg]

That sounds fun though

[@angelsjoker8190]

@@trenbear4469 Going all in in sparring just ask for CTE in the long run. And body-conditioning wise, it also mainly just filters the top of crop and the rest can't sustain that hard of a training and gets broken bodies.

[@leagreenall5972]

I was learning my craft when Muay Thai hit big time here in Australia at the turn of 1990's. At that time 'full-contact' was kicks above the waist only and they were fully padded. So when Muay Thai came to the fore front, it was a game changer for the genre. Just like Bruce Lee had an impact from tip-tap kung fu movies to full on dynamic 1 or 2 hit knockouts. Now with the Dutch and then later us Aussies, we were not afraid of the elbow and knee to the head. Back then most fights were 'C-Class' that is more like modern K-1 with no clinching and definitely no elbows. Then 'B-Class' became the staple with clinching and knees allowed -even to the head - but no elbows. 'A-Class' or 'World-Rules' was full Muay Thai rules. Here in Australia we had to negotiate our fights if it wasn't C class before B class became mainstream. A class was reserved for title fights or high professional fighters - a novice/amateur was not allowed to fight with elbows to start.... I was lucky that I fought mostly B and A class. The reason why I say this is to show how and why the Dutch and later Aussies became dominant over all others. The reason why you never saw US champions in Muay Thai was because they banned outright the use of elbows as they considered them 'too brutal'. Heck even the low kicks in the Rufus vs Kiatsongrit legendary match was considered too brutal and 'anyone can kick legs'. Rufus' rother later went on to take Muay Thai and adopt low kicks to be a champion in USA. It would ironically take UFC/Pride/MMA to relax those rules and mindset. SO while Dutch and Australia allowed elbows, US didn't, and it shows in the progression of how well the fighters performed on the world stage. Dutch also had a different system in Europe. When a fighter had fought enough fights they HAD TO fight A-Class... and therefore the training and mindset adapted accordingly. And that's what a lot of toughness boils down to; Mindset. Countries and federations that promote A-class fights also promoted the mindset and training required for it. I remember there were states here in Australia that refused to allow A-class rules - but this was very political due to the dominant martial arts and brand was a certain type of Karate and they used to supposedly add Muay Thai to the classes - it was a debacle with students who wanted to fight were trained properly, and when they faced Queensland fighters, they were destroyed, and the cries was brutality. No, it was that Queenslanders were the pioneers of true and faithful Muay Thai that was no holds bar and was closest to the real intensity of authentic Muay Thai training and mindset. Though we had jobs, we still dedicated massive amount of time to be real fighters. Now all of that I mentioned about Australia was concentrated in the Netherlands. It is why Hoost, Aerts, Dekkers, Kaman and the others became so tough and legends.... they adapted and embraced it completely and earlier than others in the west, and as such had the head start in mindset, and becoming culturally accepted and expected.

[@Woudloper]

RIP Ramon Deckers.

[@danirkzundov1996]

Love the technique from P. Aerts & E. Hoost ❤ Bravo

[@jeffwy5164]

It doesn’t hurt that the Dutch are the tallest people in the world. The Dutch are more dominant in the open weight than they are in other divisions, after all. Still, that little country punches way above its weight in producing great fighters. This video focuses on similarities but it’s crazy how diverse the styles of successful kick-boxers to come out of Holland actually are. Semmy Schilt was a classic kyokushin tank, bas ruttan a karate prodigy, Remy Bonjasky was very Thai kickboxing influenced, Hoost and Aearts were brilliant tacticians with very different styles, overeem was, well overeem… and the list goes on. You’d think a little country producing an overwhelming supply of top talent actually had a style that united them, like Thailand or Brazil, but actually, the Dutch dominate using a variety of styles.

[@jamescooke7243]

Perhaps it's their variety that allows them to be so good. You aren't stuck in a style you don't like just because that's the style. They have freedom to find a style that matches

[@cloudlink2542]

It's the style, some of these people aren't white Dutch.

[@Zen-751]

bro, it's the conditioning that they got from kyukushin. They harden their bones like the thai people do

[@mrkrabs2153]

Nah their not the tallest if compared to some regions like where the Massai people live and the dinaric Alps are 😅 But compared to countries their the tallest

[@jackjohnson424]

@@cloudlink2542 🤡

[@rudyschurmann6211]

The Diamond Ramon Dekkers

[@tomazapat8520]

First dutch kickboxer that i saw was ernesto hoost. He beat cro cop in k1. I was for cro cop at that time but start to admire and discover others. My favoritw is ramon dekkers for sure amd ernesto second favorite

[@adrianblania5565]

The wins of the users of this style says it all. great video.

[@wumbago8910]

I live in the flemish region in Belgium and its practicially the same here. I cant lie that its not effective but only for the top guys imo. I have seen many get concussed and their careers get ruined simply because they are sparring way to brutal, many because of this also get an ego and forget that we're teammates and not enemies. If there is an agreement i see no problem in dutch style sparring but many of these fighters that got an ego will just beat on the newer guys.

[@Felix-bx7fx]

Where do you live in Flanders exactly ? I'll be living in Gent for some time next month and I'm about to join the local MMA gym

[@wumbago8910]

@@Felix-bx7fx i live in Antwerp but dont get me wrong there are alot of nice people who will help you and teach you and some even prefer the light sparring system. However we just have this kind of culture that says to go as hard as possible. If it's a good gym they wont let u get beat up tho

[@e.e.8589]

Its just not smart to train hard all the time.

[@RichardmpayiTnway]

If you’re in Belgium come to our gym in Antwerp Run by me and Cindy Dandois ( ex ufc fighter )

[@joffre55]

@@Felix-bx7fx You have a few but I can recommend "Team Mahanakhon", as a native from Gent.

[@Unknowncurrancy]

Best martial arts analysis channel

[@Justin-xd7zj]

Best style for self defense as well. You can quit training for a couple years but still be fairly effective even if you lose your flexibility.

[@LawrenceKenshin]

good style for sure

[@stianaslaksen5799]

Great homage to Dutch Kickboxing. We've all enjoyed so much entertainment from these fighters. Dekkers is my absolute favorite!

[@LawrenceKenshin]

🙏🙏

[@demogadget]

As a Dutch I can confirm, sparring was brutal :P. But always with respect and easy on the head.

[@Zend2108]

I can absolutely relate. My kickboxing trainer, Alex Liveti, is a Dutch style kickboxer. He emphasize hard training and hard sparring.

[@ujayet]

You should do one on letwei fighting technique..I think it is one of the most effective art as well.

[@LawrenceKenshin]

what do you like about lethwei?

[@pollsayspaul]

@@LawrenceKenshin headbutt and bare knuckle

[@sam-ed8uh]

It's interesting really, I do Muay Thai and my coach is an old school Thai boxer and we focus on mainly light sparring. He says "that's the Thai way, light sparring to perfect your technique." You rarely learn anything by going full power unless you already have the techniques down. Very opposite sparring styles

[@manjitheerratic5127]

Haha, thank to you, now I know why Dutch kickboxing is so famous which many of my foreign friends often mention. I live in a country where people favor Muay Thai more. And accidentally the formula of striking technique of Ducth Kickboxing is what I currently train for self-defense and MMA. Well, honestly to say, it is a combination from two of Jeff Chan MMA Shredded videos. - The Striking part of MMA techniques for Self-Defense video on his channel: continous punching + calf kick/foot sweep. - Why elite strikers lose in MMA presented by Jeff on this channel: Wide stance for power punches, lowkick counter and takedown defense + More utilized head movement ... Those are focus you learn mostly from boxing training. I think those can be learn can be learned from Dutch Kickboxing too since there are aggressive boxing in the style which you mentions in this video. What a great video, Lawrence !!!

[@noahholliday9761]

When you have a God "Ramon Dekkers" in your country there's going to be a million kids looking to carry that title.

[@andrunlowerre245]

"Hardens the body and mind". And calcifies the mind with the amount of brain damage allowing knockouts during daily sparring would cause. Into the trash it goes.

[@LawrenceKenshin]

It’s def not for everyone

[@Mr440c]

The hard Dutch sparring is not a training method. There is no method in this. It's a selection. Survival of the fittest at its finest. That is why Dutch fighters are such legends. We simply don't see all the broken and ripped appart ones that had to end their martial art way and serve as stepping stones to the legends we know. In conclusion the Thai way is the right one as they breed many fighters that can transition from competition to coaching while retaining their health and the ability to demonstrate every technique they did back when they used to step into the ring until they die within the walls of a gym. For Thai Muay Thai is way of life.

[@kerpal321]

the real difference was the addition of western boxing skills to muay thai which gave a the dutch style an advantage over guys who only trained muay thai, not the hard sparring

[@jamesloganhowlett1553]

Combining Kyokushin Karate and western boxing with Muay Thai techniques gave the Dutch edge over the Thai people who trained only in traditional Muay Thai, which didn't had smooth combinations and improper boxing.

[@reinardtopperman6757]

I don't know anything about martial arts but you have a way to help me understand. Excellent presentation

[@heytony4162]

From what we now know about CTE it doesn’t seem like a good idea to do hard sparring but if it’s effective and that is all you care about then there isn’t an issue.

[@LawrenceKenshin]

i agree with your sentiment

[@WolframtheBlessed3499]

I agree. I read a book by Tris Dixon called "Damage: the Untold truth of Brain damage in Boxing" where he mentions that a lot of the damage that comes to boxer's brain is done in the countless hours of hard sparring that show up later in his life. A case in point is Wilfredo Benitez who became the youngest world champion at 17 and couldn't feed himself from the brain injury in his mid thirties.

[@calvinhunt2335]

So glad you made this video.

[@LawrenceKenshin]

Thanks !

[@AllAhabNoMoby]

Very good analysis. And thank you for mentioning Lucien Carbin, one of the most underrated fighters AND coaches we ever had. I trained under him in the early eighties, and he ran a grueling gym. I still benefit from what I learned there to this day.

[@atshabal]

Dutch kick boxing,it is a combination of kyokushin,muay thaï and western boxing . Thé reasons why they spar so hard it is the kyokushin spirit within that style.

[@EricJacobusOfficial]

The Dutch maritime familiarity with Asia definitely helps. It'd be interesting to compare colonial history with fighting styles.

[@wasabi5338]

heyyy whats up Eric? Big fan.

[@skunk12]

5:35 Sparring combined with the next 10 seconds makes this video so much better. 😆🤣😂

[@nickrodriguez3850]

I would like for kenshin to talk more about mma fighters striking

[@LawrenceKenshin]

oh thats a cool topic

[@djvanmaanen]

My name is David van Maanen and I want to thank you for this videoI am almost 60 and have been training since the age of 8

[@tanoiminh8809]

Will you create a comparing video between Japanese kickboxing style and Dutch kickboxing style? The're quite similar in terms of striking but I think there are a few differences like the aggression, the speed and the use of kicks or even the rule.

[@yongjiean9980]

Maybe Japanese Kickboxing uses more kicking and punching combinations plus more varied kicks like side kick and spinning back kick while Dutch uses more boxing combination and mostly roundhouse kicks.

[@Ibnwhitetrashabdullah]

Always much anticipated videos

[@LawrenceKenshin]

thanks for tuning in!

[@BobSaint]

It reminds me of the Bulgarian weightlifting program. Sure, You get olympic champions, but for how long and at what cost? What about the mountain of guys that injured them self out of competition for good? And all of the juices the survivors of the program had to intake just to get through it? Eventually, time caught up with them, and proved that the old Soviet system, or in this case, the Thai way of training is waaay more based in science. Do You need better example than Dekkers? Imagine how much more he could have accomplished if he haven't broke his body so early? Maybe he would even be alive and healthy today?

[@1fadf23f]

What nonsense. There was nothing more Ramon could have accomplished. He accomplished it all

[@BobSaint]

@@1fadf23f Except maybe being healthy and alive, please read more carefully.

[@1fadf23f]

@@BobSaint I did. What else did you mean with what else could he have accomplished? Please pay more attention to what you write.

[@pennywise1682]

Dutch style of training is really tough, but i liked it back in days, when i was training. I come from germany and i live close to the border to netherlands. I trained there for over 2 years and it helped me alot to get stronger. But i was already experienced and know how to handle the pressure and pain.

[@damienthetexasian6827]

Another great video! I always knew the Dutch hit pads light, but spar hard. While the Thai do the opposite, spar light and drill pads hard. The reasoning makes perfect sense. In the states, it seems to become a bit of a hybrid. Drill pads hard, spar hard for some of the same reasoning along with the American impatients.

[@TheMylittletony]

Hitting the pads light is bs.

[@east30]

The video is not entirely true and there are a lot of myths. Hard sparring is what fighters do when they get ready for competition. Most of the times and in most of the gyms sparring isnt that hard. Its very similar to the states. Hitting pads lights is completely untrue I dont know who told you that. Thais only sparring light is myth too, if you are ever able to spar there you will experience it for yourself how "light" they spar

[@damienthetexasian6827]

@@east30 i can't speak for the Dutch. I'm speaking from my experience as a Muay Thai coach of 15+yrs, trained by a Lumpini Champion. We learn to spar light, learn control, and touch spar everyday. "Hard spar" once a week becuz we didn't have regular competition.

[@east30]

@@damienthetexasian6827 thats the way I like teaching too I teach kickboxing(k-1 rules) in the Netherlands. The only sparring hard myth came from a couple videos of(predominantly) Mike's gym who has a day in the week where the (competition) guys spar very hard. However this is not the truth for every gym here and its also not all the time. It is common to spar after every training but you don't bash eachothers head in during every sparring session and there is a big difference in being in competition or just doing it for fun. I think mostly the training style is kinda similar to the way you are doing it.

[@josemucarselsacoto5122]

Glorious! Thank you for your work Mr Lawrence. 🤜🤛

[@LawrenceKenshin]

thank you for watching :)

[@jcleese9651]

The dutch fighters on the international arenas are very tough and strong because of the very hard sparring they do in the gym. There is however a problem or two with this approach imo. First, you are ging to miss out on a lot of potentially really good fighters, who don't have it in them to punch another human hard, but may get there given the correct training and a bit of time. All those are going to be beaten up badly in the gyms and they will never get a chance to grow at their own pace. Second, if you are a pro, you get paid to perform in the ring and staying in shape because a fight may come up in a short notice. You will howver not perform at your best if you have got beaten up in the gym a couple of days before the fight, and your career will suffer from it eventually as the injuries start to stack up. There is also a life after the career has ended, believe it or not, and not being able to function correctly because of the massive head trauma a career like that will inevitably produce or having your joints messed up causintg a limp could not be worth it. I saw Ramon Dekkers at Glory in Rome back in the days, and man, he was not in a very good shape, almost certainly due to his fighting style (and years of mercyless training sessions).

[@amosamwig8394]

thats why is good to communicate with your sparring partner. I do that aswell, when I feel im getting better we step it up.

[@xakushonx8798]

The thing is the more hits ur chin gets the faster u go knock out with the time. Dutch fighters have mostly short careers and get ko´d very often in their later years

[@RickyBobby42069]

Joining a new kickboxing gym tomorrow after 6 months of Muay Thai. I'm pumped

[@Xul]

Ahh finally some credit to Bluming :D Nice. Thanks for the great video! But I'm not a big fan of ultra-hard sparring. The cost/benefit ratio is just too bad. It may help the best-of-the-best to get that slight edge for a title but the vast majority of normal fighters will just end up with unnecessary injuries.

[@bikrambaruah7216]

Such an in-depth but short video on the Super Analysis of Dutch Kickboxing. Really thankful for your efforts for giving so much details. 🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓👍👍👍👍👍👌👌👌👌🙏🙏🙏🙏👊👊👊👊👊

[@bobjones1537]

Salam from Casablanca, Morocco Great Episode as always!!! Dutch Moroccan fighters have taken this Style to another level, via their Live or Die attitude. That’s how we fight here in Morocco!!! All or nothing, with technique n flair, obviously!!! I hope you will do an episode about Dutch Moroccan fighters’ impact from the late and pioneer Milo El Guebli to now!!!

[@dobiqwolf]

Another great video, you are on a roll with the videos at the moment.

[@LawrenceKenshin]

Glad you like them!

[@fikriasrofi5312]

The Dutch took Musashi quotes "you can only fight the way you practice" Too far

[@1fadf23f]

Too far for succes?

[@fikriasrofi5312]

@@1fadf23f too far in an effective way

[@1fadf23f]

@@fikriasrofi5312 seems to be working extremely well, so I disagree

[@fikriasrofi5312]

@@1fadf23f i just joking after all

[@kevingonzalez3673]

This how we used to train. I started in TMA and then transitioned into boxing. After boxing for some time, I got into Thai boxing but brought my boxing combos with me along with that low kick. I guess it is not just the Dutch who also learned to fight this way.

[@shanequigley7552]

The Dutch are as hard as nails

[@LawrenceKenshin]

super tough

[@rawke7279]

This was amazing. Great history lesson. Thabkyou so much. Keep up yr great work.

[@Alekth85]

Most important thing should be longevity. I cant see longevity with hard sparring. Its effective, but short. So i lean onto Thai style.

[@LawrenceKenshin]

i like thai style too

[@dstavs]

Haven’t even watched this yet but I know it already deserves a thumbs up! Excited to watch another stellar video.

[@LawrenceKenshin]

Thank you !

[@joshjorissen9656]

I love the Dutch style. I incorporated the back on forth combinations on my muay thai classes and just call them a "dutch drill". Very cool.

[@johnpittsii7524]

Thanks for the amazing video

[@LawrenceKenshin]

thank you for watching john!

[@njdpdv]

EPIC

[@LawrenceKenshin]

yesss epic

[@anandkumargopi6214]

My Compliments to you!! A very good Documentary. Good Explanation.

[@STRANEV]

they train so hard thanks to pharmaceutical companies

[@LawrenceKenshin]

is that all there is

[@rfithawaii]

Wonderful video. Dutch and Muaythai are both amazing.

[@RobbertLobik]

Im Dutch, sparred twice, second guy (towering figure) made me see stars right away though I was new.. Yeah nah yeah, pass..

[@LawrenceKenshin]

ah sorry to hear that

[@999waves]

1:05 he got KO and made a phone call

[@xamenoskli]

Knockouts at sparring.. Sorry but accumulative brain damage never helped anyone.

[@LawrenceKenshin]

thats the way they do it

[@xamenoskli]

@@LawrenceKenshin And they have produced amazing talent/champions. I am not disputing that. It comes with a cost of physical and mental health in laters years though.

[@nicholasmessina6406]

Amazing video. Loved this. Is there anyway you would do a comparison video of different kickboxing styles. Like the origin and mechanics of each. Savate, American kickboxing, Muay Thai, Taekwondo, Sanda...etc?. thanks

[@LIONTAMER3D]

funny how much the Dutch flag resembles the Thai flag lol

[@LawrenceKenshin]

haha

[@LIONTAMER3D]

@@LawrenceKenshin Dutch: "red, white & blue" Thai: "red, white, blue, white & red" Dutch: "we have much to learn"

[@mangoman818]

This is the most badass style of fighting ever.

[@LawrenceKenshin]

one of them for sure

[@murilocaruy]

Brazilian Muay Thai champion Cosmo Alexandre said in an interview Thai boxers train 6 hours a day, while the Dutch train 2 hours a day and still are able to compete in equal footing with the Thais.

[@LawrenceKenshin]

not all of them train 6 hours a day and not all dutch train 2 hours a day

[@indyjonesy6500]

In thai ,duth kickboxing is like muay mat fighters good in boxing and adding it with a powerful lowkicks

[@mgmodp8966]

I love Dutch style, however I still enjoy it more when I see a Thai fighter winning like klinmee vs hoeltzen or Nolan, dunno why...

[@LawrenceKenshin]

Thai style is amazing! that's up next

[@mgmodp8966]

@@LawrenceKenshin man your videos motivates me to go training even when I feel like sh... Thank you!

[@guererodelluz]

Dutch kickboxers dominate until they face a good Muay Thai fighter in the finals of the tournament...Buakaw, Petrosyan, Keaw fairtex, Sittichai..(being some examples who dominated in kickboxing rules) who neutralise them with higher iq and skill. I like to practice both and Dutsh style is more direct for self defence or mma. Thai style much more tricky and technical.

[@JamesJones-ct9nm]

Awesome video. Keep up the good work.

[@LawrenceKenshin]

thanks a lot james!