LBJ and Robert F. Kennedy, 7/21/64, 12:25p.

Telephone Conversation between President Johnson and Robert F. Kennedy.
Citation No.: 4288
July 21, 1964.
Time: 12:25P
Speakers: President Johnson and Robert F. Kennedy
General Topics: Civil Disorders; Civil Rights; Crime & Law Enforcement; Investigations; Speeches
Topics: Discussion Of Federal Protection For MLK At Upcoming Speech In Greenwood, Mississippi; Relations Between J. Edgar Hoover, RFK, Justice Dept; NYC Riots, Need For FBI Investigation, Comparison With Situation In South; LBJ Reads Proposed Statement On Riots
More info on the LBJ telephone conversations: www.lbjlib.utex...
President Johnson assigned his copyright to the United States government; however, the copyright of the President may not extend beyond statements made by President Johnson. Statements uttered by officials of the United States government in the course of their duties are considered to be in the public domain. Users of the recordings and transcripts are cautioned, however, that not all persons recorded were government officials. A number of the people recorded were, at the time of recording, private citizens. Therefore, those intending to quote from this material beyond the accepted limits of fair use are cautioned to determine the copyright implications of any intended publication.

[@ahill9477]

Fascinating. Civil discourse between two men that disliked each other immensely.

[@donovanstone4959]

RFK sounds depressed, dispirited, and very cautious in this conversation, to my mind.

[@mattneal5257]

Donovan Stone I had that same thought. Of course I don’t really know- but that’s my impression as well

[@CocoTaveras8975]

Donovan Stone Because he likely most certainly was.

[@karanveersingh6367]

Yes he is depressed and broken.

[@johnfarr2738]

Only 9 months after his brother was killed.

[@onegirlrev]

Agree.

[@akumar7366]

Incredible to think Robert Kennedy was already concered about the real risk of Martin Luther king getting assinated barely few months after the loss of JFK.

[@christianaspell3627]

How Bobby K got through an enormous amount of pressure is a miracle.

[@sofiatheone7]

It sounds as if, RFK had to walk on eggshells after JFK died. Seemed like he was gonna burst into tears during this conversation. I can’t imagine how he must have felt, having to see, and work with LBJ everyday after.

[@100texan2]

Old LBJ put those hoity toity Yankees in their place. LBJ was a political powerhouse you didn’t mess with. Those high stepping Kennedy’s found out right quick how the cow eats the cabbage.

[@robertgoldy679]

@@100texan2 dude your realy mest up in the head do you know that?

[@johncovert3140]

This is fascinating. Thank you for posting.

[@sumbeech1484]

LBJ would fit into today's world perfectly ! A phone in his hand at all times !!!

[@theblogger7697]

Rfk voice is so soothing

[@danschreffler1280]

Obviously RFK knows that Hoover had given LBJ a report on him. This is a very strained relationship.

[@Michaelbos]

Hoover also gave LBJ and report on himself. That’s how Hoover stayed in power. The Hoover files were good to keep for real enemies of the country, but not on entertainers and others in general.

[@graceandpeace4414]

How can two people who 'hated each other,' have a civil conversation?

[@johnkopacka5420]

they hated each other..that is a fact...

[@CocoTaveras8975]

John Kopacka Yes, yes it is.

[@slimcutz2081]

#TooRealSomePplToUnderstand💯💯💡

[@paulsimon8269]

Very similar to the politics of ancient Rome...clouded in mystery and obscured by time.with a truth stranger than fiction

[@slimcutz2081]

👍💯

[@ronniebishop2496]

If it was just a lone nut it wouldn’t still be going on.

[@timmckeown1313]

Bobby sounds so bereft in this call. You can tell in his voice how painful it is for him to speak to anyone, let alone Johnson.

[@mikeingersoll4466]

Tim McKeown Johnson hated him and had him killed in 68

[@Qwsgwx]

Mike Ingersoll no proof

[@adamredfield]

Yo Yo you are right. I don't like LBJ at all but the idea that he had RFK killed is absolutely without any evidence at all. It's a rank calumny. Jerks like Mike Ingersoll should be ashamed of themselves.

[@stopthelies3973]

It is a bunch or republicon propaganda, started by Oinky Jones,

[@firgasz2920]

4 years earlier RFK yelled at him after the Democratic convention when his brother offered him the vice presidency. RFK did not want LBJ to be vice-president so he went to his room and yelled at him and demanded that johnson would have to declare in public that he would not accept the offer. During is years as vice president RFK tried to humiliate Johnson where ever he could. When LBJ was visiting the United Kingdom RFK send an not encrypted cable to the american embassy in London declaring that the vice presidency of the united states would in no way speak for the Kennedy-Administration.

[@MDJ-wb1pn]

Bobby sounds shaken but that stands to reason. He knew who he was dealing with and it shook him to the core. JFK would have had a second term for sure.

Running against Goldwater, yes. Polls showed JFK not too strong against Nixon or Rockefeller.

[@bradleyholt9805]

Except he went to Texas

[@vannieloumarshall7505]

Not if Marilyn had anything to say about it. And she would have, had she lived.

[@vincentlussier8264]

JFK would have served a second term hands down! That's why they gunned him Down.He was too good to the people and he angered the powers around him! His killing was a message of warning to all future presidents, "We can get you!"

[@dlamiss]

@@bradleyholt9805 great line

[@ebeegeebeefofeebee3181]

Robert Kennedy sounds like he is very leary of talking with Johnson. And for good reason I think.

[@derekgallardo9065]

I sense a tone in RFK where he has moved passed his grief, gotten back into his role as Attorney General, and has begun exploration into issues that would guide him into the Senate, and into his candidacy. What is bizarre is all of the historical commentary of how these two men did not like each other. When you hear a declassified conversation between them, it displays the exact opposite. Kennedy is a cabinet member fully advising and working with the new president, without the implied hatred historians claim existed between these two.

[@brucewalters8635]

I respect RFK for not only confronting LBJ but for striving to continue doing his job the best he can regardless of whether or not he has to work with his new superior a direct member of the coup against his brother John. Classy doesn't cover it.

[@DrCarr-nb1tf]

This must be a very trying moment for Kennedy! Kennedy sound tired

[@paulgleitman7754]

How they hated each other.

[@JimChilders1]

For all interested in history I find these conversations now available for everyone to be extremely educational, informative and in some cases disturbing. This conversation nine months after Kennedy's assassination strange concerning the Attorney Generals conflicts with FBI Director, J. Edgar Hoover. Although a department under the Justice Dept. and the authority of the Attorney General Hoover has managed to take his orders only from the President. In this conversation that is confirmed and shows Bobby Kennedy's reluctance to spell out some of the demeaning issues to a President who relies on Hoover and considers him one of his closest allies. This he openly expresses to Hoover in other phone conversations.

[@jln55]

Jim Childers And don't forget, Hoover had dirt on everybody including LBJ. So even if LBJ considers Hoover a friend, he also has to worry about what Hoover might do if LBJ displeases him.

[@stopthelies3973]

This is the forst I've heard of that 'relationship' and I have read a great deal on LBJ.

[@chynnadoll3277]

It’s hard to believe that LBJ was only 64 when he died. He looked much older. Maybe it was guilt.

[@teresalinton5898]

bad heart

[@ebeegeebeefofeebee3181]

That and the fact that Vietnam was falling apart so bad he knew he would never be re-elected. This after the landslide victory of 1964.

[@eddylauterback1312]

Heart, temper, ancestors, he tried to correct race problems but God knows Vietnam speeded up his death. Lady Bird had her hands full. She was a Saint.

[@Colt-ii4qn]

Looked 70 plus , stress

[@nollyfkennedy]

Bobby's voice... 💔

[@billiejones8602]

Bobby sounded so much like his brother. It's almost like hearing JFK's voice

[@tonemerc2]

RFK, LBJ, MLK, wow history!!

[@davesuiter]

Even though RFK was J Edgar Hoover's boss, it was in name only. Hoover was the defecto most powerful man in the United States arguably; with his secret files and pillow talk with Clyde Tolson.

[@paulbentley1705]

Yea he was that. Too bad we don't have him today to keep the FbI in line.

[@trickeydick5024]

They let all the freaks out of the bag and the USA went downhill quicker than the Titanic.

[@darkangelmichael6148]

Bobby was Hoover's boss, but when his brother died and Johnson took over...well.....

[@benschlechter]

There was talk about replacing Hoover when JFK died.

[@SethMcFartlane]

What a crazy time, people being assassinated left right and center. But Hoover and LBJ were fine.

[@gesseofbloodclan405]

Am I the only one who can hear it in only one ear on headphones?

[@tiredofthelies5490]

It is 1964. It is a simple recorder.They did not have "Stereo" sound yet. Most radios, and tape players only had one speaker.

[@paraconti]

Plug in your headset cable HALFWAY into your PC port and it'll work fine.

[@Nominay]

This has got to be the most awkward and bizarre conversation by phone on record between the two.

[@mhschreiner7908]

Go Bobby!

[@CocoTaveras8975]

MH Schreiner He's awesome!

[@ronniebishop2496]

This same thing had been going on for years and years. I guess there’s nothing to do about it.

[@tony84.]

Awkward conversation, knowing how much these two men disliked one another. 1:57, Discussing Hoover.

[@doomgloom8414]

RFK calls Johnson's and Hoover's bluff right at your timestamp. That's the climax of the call for sure.

[@MapleSyrupPoet]

Bobby has a good heart ❤ ❤🤍💙

[@stanhankins3175]

Wow. They hated each other bad.

[@onegirlrev]

I think RFK felt LBJ had some role in his brother’s assassination. LBJ was a bit too ready to assume command.

[@ronniebishop2496]

Absolutely and Johnson didn’t run again and Bobby was killed.

[@relicman]

Well the fact that RFK was killed in 68 when LBJ had decided to not run makes me wonder if it's all just a conspiracy. I could see if he took RFK out to make sure he had no more Kennedys in his way, then I could see something there.

[@TipToe67]

Knew it was coming. Not one of the architects.

[@robertsmith5744]

It's amazing that no one has questioned whether or not Hoover was involved in the Kennedy deaths.....

[@stopthelies3973]

Santo Trafficante confessed to killing him, long ago.

[@holymoses1744]

Hoover's certainly been accused of being involved in a cover-up.

[@nymets9559]

Stephanie W. Yeah I mean a mobster would never lie to further his legend would he? 🤔

[@annlittlefield1922]

It does not surprise me at LBJ killing JFK, I don't blame Jackie at the remarks made on the blame.

[@nazur72]

Awkward

[@delavalmilker]

LBJ and RFK were like matter meeting anti-matter.

[@jimmcaleenan7243]

Rfk could have saved the USA

[@Nominay]

I've actually studied this. If anyone has any questions, my opinions are informed and you'll get educated answers.

[@rogershepherd2696]

Was rfk/s statement about a report sent over to LBJ about rfk proven true or proven unfounded?

[@makiavelli999]

J Edgar Hoover was in LBJ´s pocket.

[@donovanstone4959]

Everyone was in Hoover's pocket. He had dirt on everyone- he was on every phone line.

[@phillane6666]

makiavelli999 0

[@vincentlussier8264]

Yes Mr. Hendrix!

[@jimjones1374]

The other way around

[@Michaelbos]

No, it was the other way around if you knew true history.

[@jerryboucher5622]

Can t help but think this guy was in on the MLK and RFK murders.That was his thing and he was so good at it.

[@notnilccm]

"I shall not seek and I shall not accept my party's nomination" But I'm gonna plot the assassinations of MLK and RFK! Really?

[@Nominay]

@@notnilccm Yeah, it provides the perfect cover.

[@johnfarr2738]

Don’t think he was involved in either. It’s more plausible that the CIA or more likely Hoover who hated RFK and MLK was involved, especially with the MLK assassination.

[@johnhariton7432]

Jerry, you're gettin warmer.

[@johnhariton7432]

@@notnilccm bingo.

[@euanelliott3613]

Bobby Kennedy never understood the depth that Johnson had come to dislike him. They had clashed over JFK offering the vice presidency to LBJ and Bobby tried to persuade Johnson that Jack didn't want him on the ticket. When Johnson complained bitterly JFK said Bobby was out of touch, but it was later assumed that Jack got RFK to take the fall for it. Johnson saw Kennedy as a child of privilege who was handed everything on a plate, while LBJ had to fight his way to the top. Their personalities were inflammatory to one another but Bobby was devoted to duty, hoping to steer the President in the way his brother would have gone. Clearly this became impossible, and RFK resigned as Att. Gen. in 1964. Johnson also had Hoover feeding him stories about Bobby to give himself leverage. Whether these stories were true or not depends on who you prefer to believe. Personally I think RFK was a very evolved human being, and Johnson an insecure man who did his best as President in difficult circumstances.

[@themysticsupreme5946]

RFK's thoughts before the call: He killed my big brother and now he's my boss. I'll just play along for a few more years and then get pay back in a major way.

[@ronniebishop2496]

Oh yes you can hear it in his voice he hated Johnson.

[@redjirachi1]

I don't believe in that conspiracy theory, but the two despised each other since the 1960 primaries so much I think Bobby did believe in it

[@jamesl5500]

@@redjirachi1 they hated each other since Johnson was a senator

[@jt7638]

You are all being ridiculous. Counterfactoral: If Robert Kennedy really thought a conspiracy WITH LBJ murdered his brother - then why didn't he have the best imaginable personal security before running for president? He was running to succeed Johnson??? Does not make sense does it? Kennedy's death was pointless and every conspiracy theorist just cannot deal with that pointlessness.

[@100texan2]

That didn’t work out too well for Bobby.

[@georgeterryzealots]

Notice the tone...Does it remind you of recent events ?

[@PaulDoe79]

Like Obama talking to his AG about Fast & Furious?

[@_dave4460]

a thoroughly depressed bobby; knowing silently he was next. his power removed by the assasination of jfk and a long time enemy now his boss. a boss who would resist his every action and intent while taking credit for his brothers work, a boss likely deeply involved in the killing of his brother john kennedy...

[@Caperhere]

Who taped the conversation?

[@gingervsginger]

Kelly Hudson Nixon installed a recorder for every call to the Oval Office back when he was VP for Eisenhower.

[@rogershepherd2696]

The presidents phone conversations are taped....its customary

[@Michaelbos]

The White House.

[@deanbritt9131]

Robert Kennedy knew to much the poor bugger. His voice sounds like someone who's scared

[@westyraviz]

People enjoy slandering the dead. I wish LBJ could come back from the dead and sue all of you. Does this conversation sound like Bobby had any animus towards LBJ because he blamed him for his brother’s killing? Yes, we know about their difficult relationship during JFK’s presidency. But LBJ & RFK were grown men, you think he’d have kept Bobby around if he killed JFK? You think that RFK would have stayed around to serve under a man that got his brother killed? Bobby even wanted to be his running mate in 1964. And he campaigned for Bobby for senate. People like to make up nonsense.

[@markpotvin7119]

Some people just hate Lyndon Baines Johnson, but he seems to have succeeded in getting more done than any President in the United States history

[@williamcurry2708]

Lol...

[@chrissnyder3430]

Mark Potvin ya sure, more useless welfare encouraging poverty and low life goals. "Let the gov't take care of you". One of the worst pieces of trash in American history. Woodrow Wilson being the absolute worst.

[@stopthelies3973]

He did get more done that any President in history and what he did was for the average American people, not big business or the NRA.

[@mhschreiner7908]

Johnson killed Kennedy. Enough said. The Kennedy’s have sacrificed and given more to this country than anyone. If the Kennedys had lived, things would be so different. No one has the right to say anything bad about them unless they have sacrificed or been in public service ...given as much as they have. Lady Bird would have been a great President. She was smart and kind.

[@Blackdiamond9668]

Mark Potvin Well, I guess LBJ did do more than JFK, seeing as he had a hand in shortening JFK’s life (presidency).

[@ShaneMcBryde]

The more I learn about JFK & RFK, the less enamored with them I become.

[@James-qk3nh]

We sure don’t want um to to think we’d just jump on a SOW .

[@costadelsolkinahan8813]

What kind of coup would have been hatched from the mind of Bobby?

[@donovanstone4959]

He may have said something, or have been believed to have said something, characterizing his brother's murder in those terms. Here he is cautiously backpedaling away from any such interpretation, particularly in a defensive sense of what J. Edgar Hoover might be alleging.

[@OreoCookie29]

why are there so many views on LBJ?

[@TheVideomaker2341]

Dianne Lo Took you 5 years to answer

[@coreycox2345]

That means she has given the matter a lot of thought and finally feels that she has enough information @@TheVideomaker2341 Identity is a big issue. Nobody else would know that much about geopolitics.

[@scott6504]

We're now seeing the consequences in our great society.

[@Davids-fb9ub]

This conversation reminds me what I'm gona sound like when I buy a red rotary phone from the 60s and wirelessly hook it up to my cell phone lol can't wait I'm gona have it in my room on my night table. I'm gona be like johnson sitting with my legs crossed

[@petel3756]

Too bad the sound is terrible.

[@michaelbarrett672]

The Kennedys bugged Martin Luther King Jr. THREE SEPARATE WIRETAPS.

[@Nominay]

You sound personally victimized by it.

[@johnfarr2738]

That was Hoover

[@benschlechter]

They allegedly authorized Hoover to construct the wiretaps. Jesse Helms brought it up on the Senate floor when the MLK holiday was being discussed. Then, Ted Kennedy got into a heated argument with him about it, and Patrick Moynihan of New York, threw the files of MLK on the senate floor, calling them a pack of filth.

[@tylerterry4191]

Listen to this. Robert Kennedy is asking Johnson about a plot from the FBI to kill him. Lol

[@moneyb2010]

+Tyler Terry ---iFEEL SOOO BAD FOR RFK. hIS VOICE IS FULL OF PAIN. i admire his balls in asking lbj point blank.

[@daspoohmunich7235]

the kennedys thought they walked on water they found out that wasn't true bobbys truth has been inflated through history 🤯

[@clairebunt5887]

Tbh I have watched a lot of things about LBJ I have always thought he was involved in the jfk murder but now I have totally changed my mind it wasn't him it wasn't lee Harvey Oswald it was sam giancana and Marcelo it's all connected plus frank Sinatra introduced him it all fits now 😥😥😥😥

[@julianciahaconsulting8663]

You are right Oswald did not kill JFK...and while Giancana and Marcelo certainly wanted JFK dead and likely provided the gunmen (including Jack Ruby)...those two did not have the power to call off Secret Service men on the motorcade route...or have the phone system in Washington go down for 2 hrs immediately after JFK was shpt in Dallas....or the power to select the members of the Warren Commission that pinned everything on Oswald...

[@Patrick-il4es]

You can tell by the conversation that LBJ is well suited as president, RFK would have been somewhat questionable as president, had he lived.

[@Nominay]

LBJ's war led to Nixon. I think not.

[@ryanjansen8605]

You are lost.

[@Michaelbos]

That’s a true fact. Kennedy was too too much with civil rights and was blind to a lot of everything else.

[@sueelliott8085]

People look at history through various lenses. The lens you are looking through seems to be grossly distorted.

[@benschlechter]

If Bobby had lived, Ted would not have ran for President. Nor would Chappaquiddick have taken place.

[@eduardoflores7661]

What a coincidence! JFK choose LBJ a man his brother hate. Ahaaa!

[@eddiedawkins5360]

JFK didn't just choose LBJ, he forced himself on the vice president ticket, by black male...look into it...they both tried to figure a way to stop LBJ...but he had the goods on them to stop JFK to become president

[@jerryboucher5622]

Man are you naive.

[@jerryboucher5622]

@@eddiedawkins5360 And it was a black male who had the goods on him right.

[@Charles-hy6gp]

@@eddiedawkins5360 Basically same history as Abraham Lincoln You can't be an amazing president with an horrible vice-president

[@chaswr]

If JFK wouldnt have chosen LBJ he probably wouldn't have carried Texas

[@MidnightRambler]

Bobby so paranoid haha

[@1-800-NO-FAULT]

+colin moore You are joking right? After JFK, RFK was stripped of all authority over Hoover who was without a doubt a very strange individual. Just listening to Johnson, you can tell that he is lying about Hoover.

[@MidnightRambler]

1800NoFault RFK JFK got their jobs from their rich daddy..who was into crime who helped his sons get into office.

[@marycull3607]

colin moore He was more angry. He knew what LJ was about. And he disposed him. Bobby knew what was going on between Hoover and Johnson.

[@nymets9559]

Midnight Rambler Hilarious isn't it? Weirdo

[@wsx2391]

Midnight Rambler And?They were rich, but they still tried to help the common folk.Yes, JFK won the office because of his dad but it’s not like he did a bad job.