The Nelons Airplane Crash | NTSB Preliminary Report | In-Flight Breakup | Simulator Reenactment

[@Williamb612]

Something not quite right about the Pilatus…Granted there are explanations for each accident: icing, wind sheer, spatial disorientation,pilot negligence, auto pilot disconnect etc…but the aircraft seems to be a bit overly unforgiving…at least for low to moderately experienced pilots. It is a high performance aircraft with enormous amounts of speed and torque…only 2 in the cockpit, or a seasoned pilot should fly these, otherwise do not go up in one. I have a friend who owns one, he is low to moderate experienced… and I will not go up with him.

[@michaelmavity8008]

I fly the PC12 professionally, both the legacy and NG models. You are absolutely correct in seeing the airplane as unforgiving, it’s a great single pilot airplane when professionally flown, the aircraft’s high level of automation makes the pilot’s workload manageable. An amateur will often mistake automation for ease of operation but that is an illusion, an often fatal one when the automation fails. My company spends a huge amount of money sending me to Flightsafety for recurrent training twice a year, there is a reason for this and that reason often escapes the amateur pilot.

[@smal1393]

"I have a friend who owns one, he is low to moderate experienced… will not go up with him." Excellent choice. I have declined to fly with several pilots in high performance aircraft for the same reasons.

[@alphalunamare]

Essentially there is a problem as yet unidentified. What is needed is for the testimonies of Pilots who have suffered similar problems to explain how they got out of it. Full exposure from honest pilots without fear of censure. Tell it as it is, for the sake of those who 'think' that they are capable.

[@TheFlightLevel]

Unforgiving is a very appropriate word especially for the single pilot operation. Perhaps mandatory re-current training twice a year for operators would dampen the track record for the single pilots flying the PC-12. Blue skies. PS. I've been prompted to do a video on the PC-12 single pilot track record to raise awareness of this issue.

[@StrongDreamsWaitHere]

The “problem” is that it is too much plane for someone who only flies a few hours a year.

[@lbowsk]

If not having an AutoPilot results in an emergency then the problem is not with the Pilatus. It's with the pilot.

[@TheFlightLevel]

Definitely confirmed! Cheers!

[@bingosunnoon9341]

You don't fly high performance turbo prop singles

[@regionalflyer]

@@bingosunnoon9341 I have. In fact I have 3,000 hours in the PC-12 and was a check airman. lbowsk is 100% correct.

[@lbowsk]

@@bingosunnoon9341 You're right, I don't. But I do have 9-Types. 7 of them jet. If not having an AutoPilot results in an emergency then the problem is not with the airplane, it's with the pilot.

[@flyinkiwi01]

There must be additional factors here. It can’t just be simply the autopilot faulting leading to this, surely. Shall we consider the pilot appropriately punished for his failings then @blowski

[@clinpsydoc]

God rest and bless all souls in that aircraft. We have lost those sweet angelic voices. We mourn for such a great loss.

[@46bovine]

I worked for a Part 135 operator for about 10 years. We flew a number of single pilot aircraft; C-310R’s, C-402B &C, BE-100 & BE-200’s. The owner always assigned two pilots to all flights, just in case.

[@pixieanna2058]

Pilot and wife also had just buried their daughter ten days earlier. Maybe not in the mindset for flying?

[@ericstevens8744]

I never knew that 😭

[@sdb87149]

😭😭 Absolutely tragic

[@pixieanna2058]

It wasn’t really made public at the time of the crash. Her name was Larissa and she was in her early 40’s. I don’t know any other details. She was their second child they’d lost, too. They buried a son killed in a motorcycle accident many years ago, as well.

[@Behrzad]

⁠what a cursed, tragic family existence…

[@TheOsfania]

Oh, well...

[@GrumpyOldMan9]

Actually, a low and even moderate experience pilot has no business piloting a high power airplane alone.

[@Cruiser777]

You definitely need a good checkout on it. I've flown from Kansas City to Miami, Florida, in a Cherokee 140 in thunderstorms IFR and no autopilot pilot training. And God's help

[@rogerdsmith]

Years ago had a close friend who was a real estate developer. He owned a small Learjet. he told me that he was up one time and found himself momentarily thinking about something other than flying. He said when he landed that was the last time he flew. His take away was that you never take your mind off the flying. Not even for a moment.

[@igclapp]

In a Learjet, at least he would have had a co-pilot to keep an eye on things.

[@jeffhathorn3400]

If you can afford a multi million dollar aircraft, you are a fool not to have a two qualified pilots in real time up there flying the plane. So many people have died died 3:12 in crashes in one way or another that could have been prevented with that extra margin of safety.

[@igclapp]

@@jeffhathorn3400 The reality is that it's often hard to schedule a second pilot exactly when you need him/her. Part of the attraction of owning your own plane is being able to go where and when you want to go.

[@Karan-th8td]

Wise decision!

[@TaylorGrinerOneal]

@@igclapp at what cost?

[@randalllewis2434]

The entire Nelon family were dear friends of mine!! How terrifying to be in that aircraft feeling it come apart, knowing that your fate was sealed…. Thx for this preliminary rpt….

[@TheFlightLevel]

Thanks for the visit. Very sad and very sorry for your circumstances. All the best.

[@HoundDogMech]

If you can't fly an aircraft without the auto pilot especially in IMC then maybe you shouldn't b PIC.

[@TheFlightLevel]

That’s very true and even more so carrying passengers! Thanks for watching!

[@PInk77W1]

How about Kobe’s pilot? I’m not arguing, I’m curious

[@wandachapman2403]

Yes please have respect, people loved the ones that lost their lives plus there’s still a daughter left that lost her whole family that may be reading this !

[@japc4326]

Structural failure is mainly caused by a pilot overcompensating the control surfaces. This could be due to ice buildup and the pilot not recognizing the situation till the aircraft starts acting sloppy, but then it is too late. Losing the auto pilot is not a major issue, but one you should be familiar with. IFR training and knowing your aircraft is a must with this aircraft.

[@anna121ist]

The only comfort is in knowing they’re waiting in heaven now, & Amber & Jason are holding the precious babies she lost

[@aprince4u]

The absolute terror in that plane going into dive

[@markhilsen2528]

High time ATP jet pilot with 500 hours PIC in PC-12 here: What was the autopilot trim doing in the last 30 seconds before the crash? If the cruise trim "runs away--the relay welds itself to the closed [running] position--the trim "fighting the autopilot" will cause the autopilot to disconnect, make noise, and when the pilot tries to take over, hand fly, and recover, discovers the trim is WAAAYYY out of whack and the airplane almost unflyable. Or perhaps if the pilot is too slow to find and move the "TRIM INTERRUPT" switch from NORMAL to INTERRUPT, then the airplane becomes utterly unflyable and an inflight breakup crash is [almost] inevitable. -- The PC-12's trim is 100% electric and there is no manual override. There are two parallel trims available: the pilots' yoke trim (bigger motor, higher trim speed) and the cruise/autopilot trim (slower). Each system has a separate circuit breaker. If the trim runs away, the pilot has to immediately (and I mean immediately) reach down to the pedestal, left edge just aft and full forward by his or her right knee, find the TRIMJ INTERRUPT switch plastic cover, flip it out of the way, and move the switch to INTERRUPT. You are going to live but the trim is now way out of position and you'll have to recover to straight and level flight but with a heavy push forward or pull aft to hold the nose more or less level. Next, you have to KNOW where the two circuit breakers are and pill them. You must be able to do this blindfolded because you might be in turbulence and at night. Left cockpit side, top row of circuit breakers, full forward: PULL; right cockpit side, top row of circuit breakers, full forward PULL. Return to TRIM INTERRUPT switch and reinstate it to NORMAL. -- You now need to troubleshoot but it will probably be the copilot's right side circuit breaker that is causing the problem. LEFT SEAT PILOT carefully reinstates his/her left side circuit breaker and stays prepared to pull it immediately if the trim starts running away again. TRIM DOESN'T RUN AWAY? Then it was the cruise trim that failed. Pilots use yoke trim to re-trim flight. Autopilot can be used but know it can't trim anymore so pilot uses autopilot sparingly. LAND AS SOON AS PRACTICABLE. Cruise trim gets a workout when the autopilot in ON and there is turbulence, bouncing, and a natural vertical shear going on. Lots of uSe might cause a weak cruise trim to overheat, weld, fail on. On every leg I ever flew after checking out, reaching cruise I ran the training drill for TRIM RUNAWAY. This is the single biggest way the PC-12 can kill you. Since we flew with copilots, I had the copilots run the same drill so they'd learn, too. If a manual trim wheel backup was ever offered, I'd tell the owners "Order one immediately." Three other ways to die not covered further here: UNCOMMANDED STICK PUSHER ACTIVATION, SUDDEN DEPRESSURIZATION OXYGEN MASK AND HIGH DIVE DESCENT, and finally, ENGINE FAILURE YOU'RE A 9000 lbs GLIDER drills. If you know anyone who flies the PC-12 and doesn't know this stuff, recommend they hit that part of the checklist system and make it an automatic reaction drill.

[@markhilsen2528]

Don't know how I switched type font to "cross through" but it happened. I did not mean to cross out any of the above.

[@turboromy]

@@markhilsen2528 I copied and pasted into another text editor to read without cross out and was wondering why. I'm no where near your expertise, but I have experienced full down elevator trim on a DA20. Trim is button controlled and I saw LEDs suddenly moving toward nose down trim to the max. Button never responded. Pulled elevator more and landed with no incident, and I was expecting my CFI would praise my skill. He instead questioned me why I didn't recycle main/batt switches. Ah, wouldn't that kill the engine ? He demonstrated it works differently from a car on next training flight. Just wondering if trim runaway is anything like what I experienced and solution is anything similar on PC-12.

[@markhilsen2528]

@@turboromy Good for you! I have no idea what or whether you should cycle the DA20’s Battery/Master switches ON or OFF - wait for a guy who knows. But the PC-12 trims via stabilizer movement and the stabilizer (“stab”) has several multiples of pitch authority more than the elevator. If the stabilizer runs away full up or full down, Hulk Hogan couldn’t pull hard enough to override it. You’re going to die unless you run the PC-12 procedure correctly (as o described above) and soon enough. The radar track to me looks consistent with trim runaway but that is far from saying runaway is certain. This is a situation similar to the Boeing 737 Max MCAS stab runaways. No amount of strength will save you when the stab is full +ANU or full -ANU (airplane nose up) position. Good luck!

[@turboromy]

@@markhilsen2528 Thanks. I haven't flown for 2 decades. I rather experience worst case scenarios like this than being on the ground much safer.

[@igclapp]

Thanks for the excellent description, Mark. The Piaggio P180 also lacks a manual trim wheel and also has two independent electric trims for pitch. But it seems to have an excellent safety record.

[@jlvandat69]

PC-12's are going down under similar circumstances somewhat regularly. Multiple common denominators....single pilot operation, autopilot sudden disconnect, flying in weather, etc. Best guess is the pilot was relying heavily on the AP in weather and after disconnect the pilot lacked skills needed to regain control (probably in low/no visibility) resulting in extreme decent/airspeed and subsequent breakup. Tragic. If you can afford a PC-12, you can afford good training and a copilot.

[@TheFlightLevel]

Thanks for watching. I think this is definitely the best scenario at this point from what we know. Cheers!

[@StrongDreamsWaitHere]

That’s why they’re called doctor/lawyer killers. The buyer can afford the money for the extra training but they can’t afford the **time**.

[@igclapp]

​@@StrongDreamsWaitHereVery few doctors or lawyers own PC-12's. Too expensive. A Piper Meridian or maybe a TBM.

[@cydkriletich6538]

Those poor passengers. There was time for terror. May they now each be resting in peace. 🥀

[@davidbarnes4586]

What is it with these Pilots whom cant fly an Aircraft without the Auto Pilot? They should not be allowed to fly the aircraft without an instructor until they can hand fly it.

[@TheFlightLevel]

I think many pilots are definitely onside with your suggestion. Prompts me to make another video just on this theme. Blue skies!

[@NeroontheGoon]

I’ve got pilots at my airline that are so heads up their own asses they scare me and I’m just a lead mechanic. Some of the ignorant shit that comes out of their mouths absolutely terrifies me and reinforces my opinion that aviation in the United States is fatally and terminally broken!

[@AlbertHess-xy7ky]

@@NeroontheGoon They have the same opinion of your mechanical skills.

[@letuswalkinthelightofthelo5350]

It’s similar to people who ride an e-bike compared to those who don’t ride an e-bike.

[@christerry1773]

@@NeroontheGoonsome pilots have similar viewpoints of mechanics.

[@charleygarner5616]

What a sad loss for those of us who grew up with Kelly. Prayers for Autumn.

[@westsparks6844]

Sounds like the pilot was in over his head. RIP to all 7

[@jerryumfress9030]

I'm from West Tennessee and the Nelons were very well known in the Mid South. Our Praise leader was a personal friend of the ones who perished, as were many praise team leaders and choir directors. Such a terrible loss

[@TheFlightLevel]

Thanks for watching and commenting. Definitely hits home a little harder when friends are involved. Kind regards!

[@TUPELO_HUNNY]

Im from the MidSouth and I've never heard of them....maybe not as well known as you'd like to believe

[@allenhughes12]

​@@TUPELO_HUNNYnobody gives a fuck.

[@ourlifeinwyoming4654]

My cousin shared a stage with them 3 days prior. Incredibly sad and tragic. God rest their souls.

[@jenntread6617]

What's wrong with you? You don't have to be ugly and make an uncalled for response. Perhaps you don't listen to Southern gospel music. These were beautiful kind souls. I knew the Nelons. Such a tragedy.

[@janeddins400]

So very sad, My family and I have been attending the Nelon concerts for decades, There death was so devastating, We loved their singing, They were our favorite gospel group, Our love for the Nelons, goes way back, to the early 80s, when we attended a concert of The Nelons, when Rex Nelon was the bass singer, and Jerry Thompson was the tenor singer and Kelly's first husband and Karen Peck Gooch and Todd Nelon was the bass guitarist of the group, We loved the Nelons so much and we miss them so much, Rest in Peace, We wont ever forget you, you will always have a special place in our hearts forever.

[@kathiewool4292]

Gotta love all the keyboard know it alls. Show some respect and compassion people lost their lives.

[@ElleJay-y7h]

Got that right. I have no doubt they’ll regret their comments. No doubt.

[@jamesgeorge4874]

That last mile must have been harrowing.

[@documax123]

Pitch trim runaway, hmn. Interesting. And that must have been unimaginably terrifying in that aircraft for those people.

[@mrsiborg]

I was thinking this myself.

[@DrTWG]

Yes , unimaginably terrifying . If somehow anybody had survived then it would have been a divine miracle of course - especially if the gospel group made it. Unfortunately all relevant omnipotent and omniscient deities were having a day off !

[@barb4866]

No day off. Ever. He doesn't stop the course of all disasters. But He was there.

[@documax123]

@barb4866 that makes absolutely no sense.

[@DrTWG]

@@barb4866 You would think that 'he' could have given these guys a helping hand but no , your deity of choice is a weird , freaky-nasty piece of work

[@nathanc5778]

This is sad. Seems like the pilot was way too inexperienced for the aircraft and was over relying on autopilot.

[@rainerbehrendt9330]

Like TNFlygirl

[@bingosunnoon9341]

You don't fly this plane without autopilot, not even on a check ride

[@rainerbehrendt9330]

@@bingosunnoon9341 Is this not a Sign of a bad Plane? I can dig the AP for a convinient Flight. But the Pilot should control the Plane. Okay, Fly by Wire is a other Story, but the Pilot controls the Input, the FBW checks the Output to the Steering.

[@bingosunnoon9341]

@@rainerbehrendt9330 The CG is too far aft to hand fly. This is a high performance, hi speed, airpln. Ask your teacher.

[@rainerbehrendt9330]

@@bingosunnoon9341 But that is no need for an AP. What you need is a Steeering like a F-16. The F-16 like many Fighter Jets is unstable without Computercorrections.. The AP is not a Part of this.

[@richardkeilig4062]

Very sad. God bless them.

[@lynnscruggs8105]

Such an awful tragedy 😢

[@savagecub]

More money than aeronautical ability. A sad but common theme in aviation.

[@freidamartin3281]

This is still just so freaking sad! I can't!🥺🥺🥺🥺

[@nightwaves3203]

Flying at high altitude leaves the plane in a slimmer power curve making departure from flight faster. Figures the pilot did not have any practice or training at high altitude flying using manual control. If he didn't have any experience at hand flying high altitude it's sad since most flight time is at those higher altitudes.

[@calvinnickel9995]

Not really. You’re still indicating around 200 knots. Plane still stalls at the same IAS regardless of altitude which for a PC-12 is like 63 knots.

[@marcatteberry1361]

On 25 Feb. 2021, I took a Medi-flight from Reno to Palo Alto (Moffit Field) in the PC-12 Tail number N2735SM, which crashed a year and a half later, to unknown causes. I liked the flight. 2 nurses, but only 1 pilot... Smooth flight, new looking/feeling aircraft. No complaints. I even beat Terminal cancer as well!

[@im_agine852]

Why haven't I found your channel before this day? I subbed. Keep on keeping on.

[@TheFlightLevel]

Thanks very much. Many, many channels out there and it is difficult to be aware of all the possible channels that interest you. Lots of good stuff in the queue! Cheers.

[@derekheuring2984]

This is indicative of a bigger issue in the air transport industry: cost cutting pressures on smaller commercial operators means companies needing to cut expenses cut it the only way they can, hiring pilots who will work for less i.e. less experienced. Case in point: a friend of mine flew Twin Otters for a small regional airline in Canada for several years without a pay increase and for surprisingly low pay. When he went into the office to ask for a pay raise his boss showed him a large stack of job applications and told him any one of them would gladly fly for what they were paying him. He eventually became frustrated and quit causing the small operator to lose a very experienced pilot which was very likely replaced by a much less experienced pilot looking to build up their hours. Twin Otters are very forgiving aircraft but the company did lose one to a flap malfunction resulting in fatalities.

[@robinrother1799]

I've experienced autopilot trim runaway a few times for different reasons. I turned it off and hand-flew it as you would expect. Was this a case of needing to reduce power, roll out of a spiral descent, and get the wings level?

[@vandasmith4943]

I am so sorry this happened!!!! I don't know what to say!!!! They will be missed and will always be loved!!!!

[@DA-bp8lf]

Can’t imagine these folks not knowing, that this pilot is incapable of flying this plane without autopilot. If they had known, nobody would’ve boarded.

[@cail171]

I agree i feel these high performance planes need to have 2 pilots as a rule. Pilot & FO. If you're not cool with that, you shouldn't be able to transport passengers, including friends and family

[@TheFlightLevel]

Or at least have mandatory recurrent training twice a year, including the management of a trim runaway emergency. Blue skies!

[@skyboy1956]

so you think 2 private pilots with zero training in a crew environment would be better than 1 professional pilot?

[@elliebellie7816]

Costs more money for two pilots and these rich people don't get that way by paying extra.

[@GBEdmonds-j1i]

So many of these are just sadly people with more money then ability. They think because it is such a wonderful plane somehow it wont kill them based on that single fact alone. The moral to the story? Only buy and fly a plane you plan on getting well over a hundred hours of training by a well seasoned CFI. Especially a pressurized single or twin engine plane. This had to be absolutely terrifying.

[@GodsFavoriteBassPlyr]

Would you possibly be able to demonstrate some sort of correlation between wealth and aviation accidents?

[@LouCosmeRC-ov2ol]

agree

[@Williamb612]

@@GBEdmonds-j1i Remember Paul Walker's incineration in the Porsche Carrera GT3? The car was way too much car for his friend to handle, and it got away from him.

[@richardlahan7068]

Aviate, navigate, communicate.

[@Rama41]

Sounds like runaway pitch trim overwhelmed the pilot. It would be interesting to know if there's anything unique about runaway pitch trim and the PC 12.

[@StrongDreamsWaitHere]

Not runaway. The plane will trim itself until it reaches its limits. Then the AP disconnects and the pilot suddenly has to manually fly an out of pitch aircraft without the necessary hand flying experience.

[@lbowsk]

@@StrongDreamsWaitHere Does the pilot then have the option and ability to retrim his plane? Manually or Electrically?

[@StrongDreamsWaitHere]

@@lbowsk Yes, there should be an electric trim switch (usually on the yoke) and a manual trim wheel. The situation (AP disconnecting in turbulence with an out of-trim condition, possibly in IMC) is going to be so chaotic that a pilot needs to practice enough to have some automatic responses, otherwise they are behind the aircraft as soon as the AP disconnects.

[@dwevors]

I have a pilot friend whose autopilot went out at midnight. He made it home safely. We don't teach pilots how to fly anymore!

[@Captain101-x1o]

In over 6000 hours of corporate flying, King Airs (single pilot) & Citations (multi pilot), I have had too many autopilot failures to count! It just means a tough day at work, definitely not an emergency. Auto pilot is often a deferrable defect meaning you can even depart without it under certain circumstances. I have also had 1 trim runaway, now that is in emergency, big time, and you need to be on your A game.

[@ericstevens8744]

That’s ok 👌 I prefer driving It’s not the fall that gets you It’s that sudden stop

[@DoubleMonoLR]

That's an assumption. GA safety has continued on the same gradual improvement for decades.

[@TheFlightLevel]

Thanks for watching. Thanks for your insight! Cheers!

[@1Planenut75]

Just curious. Have all the bad PC 12 accidents been single, low experience pilots? And, have all the accidents involved AP disconnect?

[@TheFlightLevel]

Yes, almost all PC-12 accidents have been single pilot. Not sure about the low experience. Based on ADS-B data, an AP disconnect is also involved. Thanks for watching.

[@pamshewan9181]

@@TheFlightLevelthe PC12 accident earlier at Stagecoach, NV was a professional pilot.

[@skyboy1956]

@@pamshewan9181 It was also known to be nasty weather.

[@Maniac742]

The Pilatus is just too complicated and too workload intensive to be flown by anything but a professional. You have to be flying one all the time in order to be proficient. Given their operating expense, I'd wager most privately owned Pilatus spend 99% of their time on the ground. It's nice to go fast and fly high, but if you can't maintain your proficiency, you're asking for trouble.

[@AllOutFirefighter]

If this plane is that complex, then perhaps the FAA, Pilatus, or any and all responsible parties should set minimum standards for it to be flown…innocent travelers should not be placed into these potential predicaments because of how industry experts “expect” these planes to be flown in, and by whoever “may be qualified” to fly them in. Autopilot should always be treated as a luxury, but it sounds like it’s being accepted as “the norm” these days…the “experts” need to do better as the experts, instead of trying to be better experts at counting money….!

[@johnman8554]

Two rules, don't stall it and don't lose control over it.. That seems to be a challenge

[@skyboy1956]

Loss of control or LOC is the #1 cause of all GA crashes.

[@dashriprock4308]

Another factor might be that it was overweight and possibly aft CG with that many people. They should have just driven to Atlanta and taken an airline flight direct to Seattle. I think they were going on a cruise to Alaska. Just tragic. The pilot apparently was not leery after the crash of the same type of aircraft coming out of Reno earlier this year, also a single pilot op. Looks like he hit turbulence that made the autopilot disengage. Same deal. Both could have encountered light rime ice, too. Need more data from the NTSB and NWS.

[@AlbertHess-xy7ky]

Overweight was unlikely at the time of the accident, perhaps at takeoff.

[@RaincloudmusicTFS6]

Yes. Pastor's kid, here. My Dad's an ordained music pastor. I grew up hearing Kelly Nelon's Dad and Kelly sing a tune, "Come Morning". ("COME morning, I'll walk by the River. I'll rest, 'neath the Evergreen tree, So, I'll carry my Cross, through the midnight....Come Morning, there's Glory for me."). Rex wrote a heckuva hook with that tune. I hope we find out what actually happened. I know they're in the arms of the Creator, but it's still one of those things where I wish they'd have booked a different flight. 😢

[@nidurnevets]

Maybe some wealthy people think that buying an expensive aircraft is like owning a fancy car. It certainly is not. I was just a simple public school teacher, so I certainly didn't have the money to buy an expensive car, never mind an aircraft! So I stuck with the good old Piper Cherokee, Warrior, and Archer. That's probably why I am still here, and get to write comments on You tube. My only flying now is as a sardine packed into a commercial airliner, where I get to watch the real pros fly.

[@TheFlightLevel]

Thanks for watching and commenting! Sounds like you have had some wonderful times flying.

[@wonttell4873]

It kinda sounds like the pilot did not know how to fly this plane.

[@Mike-bh7sh]

I was listening to the first responders radio transmissions. I remember it took them a while to even get to the crash site and one officer arrived first because some others had to go around another route (there was also some grass fires started). That officer called in and told them to cancel the medical helicopter that there would be no survivors. I forget his exact wording but I seem to recall him indicating that the cockpit and tail of the plane were mangled together, so that kind of gives the idea of the rate at impact.

[@YolandaPullman]

Couldn't the NTSB make it necessary to have two pilots in the cockpit on every flight? I'd think that would eliminate some of thee issues. The commentator said this is a complex aircraft.

[@TheFlightLevel]

Thanks for watching and commenting. While the aircraft is certified for single pilot operation, the issue is if the single pilot has sufficient recurrent training to manage an in flight emergency. Flying with a continual reliance on the autopilot without proficiency to manually fly the aircraft is the central issue.

[@americangraffiticaroz2082]

The one gentleman on the plane had been working to get his pilot license. Scary that he couldn’t take over either.

[@gcvincent3989]

As a commercial pilot for nearly twenty years and a flight instructor for fifteen after that it is incomprehensible that a individual would take the right seat in any aircraft they cannot fly in all conditions without a autopilot.

[@RusscanFLY]

So sad…

[@clydedonaldson7369]

This is a growing and disturbing trend of wealthy pilot wannabes buying high performance aircraft that they are not properly trained to fly. These persons get a private pilot license flying a Cessna 172 and then purchase an aircraft that is far beyond their abilities to fly. The end results are personal disasters like this!!!

[@msr1116]

JFK Jr. comes to mind.

[@ourlifeinwyoming4654]

Basic airmanship-if flying thru a front, disengage auto pilot and hand fly. Or better yet, don’t fly thru a front with known turbulence.

[@skyboy1956]

what is this "known turbulence?"

[@ourlifeinwyoming4654]

@@skyboy1956 When you get your weather briefing and it mentions turbulence that's being reported by other pilots in the area you plan to fly thru.

[@timothyroberts8347]

Rip to all on board , granted I am only a single engine private pilot but my concern first would be why is auto pilot disconnect a reason to declare emergency ? was there any attempt in reducing power in case of run away trim . these are ONLY MY opinions. I am not questioning the skills of the pilot . I am looking for answers in case I ever encounter this type of incident. Hopefully the NTSB final report will give us the answers needed.

[@theshadow5800]

Probably an airplane bought by pilots that's just too much for them to handle properly, allowing them or seducing them to attempt operations in flying environments beyond their skill levels.

[@Pointers_upland_life]

Great video Matt. Now I’m itching to go back to

[@Darkvirgo88xx]

Ive watched several Pilatus accident investigations and there is a reaccurring theme. If you lose control your going to quickly exceed the maximum maneuvering speed and it is going to come apart. I've seen tons of reviews for them too and you can't rely on autopilot because they are super sensitive to turbulence and it will kick off the autopilot.

[@JLang-bn3hs]

Pilot was too old and inexperienced to be flying a plane this hard to fly. It is a handful for the most experienced pilot and requires the full attention of that pilot. Not really a single pilot aircraft.

[@lindaschad9734]

Also, obviously had more money than brains. And why are we always asked to contribute to a GoFundMe for people who certainly should have been able to provide for themselves: cruise to Alaska, expensive $2 million plane plus operating costs, luxury lifestyle underwritten by church, etc.?

[@JLang-bn3hs]

@@lindaschad9734 Good point.

[@TheFlightLevel]

@@lindaschad9734 Good point and I had thought of this regarding the financial success of the music group. One never knows the actual situation, but certainly you would think money is not an issue here. Perhaps the gesture is done out of respect and consideration. Just a thought.

[@thelugoffgamecock792]

​@lindaschad9734 you have the answers? Was it their plane, or chartered by someone else? You're throwing out garbage, and certainly being very judgmental. No one is forced to buy from the group, or pay to see them perform. Does anyone tell you how to spend your money? Pathetic, ignorant comment. Imagine their income if they were country artists I guarantee they had the talent to cross over and make way above what they were making.

[@popcornjoe3752]

Nothing to do with age

[@hanshans8612]

RIP folks.

[@mikemadden3967]

Prayers...

[@hadleymanmusic]

I have no comlex aircraft training. And my father told me I have no business flying one because I have no training experience.

[@Vention3]

Condolences to all involved... Outright & outspoken should be the mantra of EVERY manufacturer always - enough of the silence routines if anyone has info they should otherwise share. Recurring training is essential in most human activities.. specially whilst hurtling through thin air @ high rates of speed. I KNOW I need to redo my 1st AIDE courses again & again - because when i think about a scenario in my head at any given moment to review how I would react - I KNOW I am behind the 8-ball on many aspects of how to handle instant emergency situations - & THAT is just a primal 1st Aide level thing.. Flying technical high-performance anything simply demands this by default.. May we all get this right & soon.. Again, a heart-felt sympathy & solstice to those living with their memories.

[@megadavis5377]

As bad as this was I have only one comment: who’s next?

[@thewatchfuleyez123]

I have been following the updates since the crash. So sad. I would like to see some pictures of the crash site and plane (not the people).

[@keithmoore4713]

I loved their music. WOW!

[@markcardwell]

RIP.

[@TheOsfania]

I'll bet that impact was quite the sight!

[@Cruiser777]

So, who's flying the airplane? That's what happens when you depend on the autopilot all the time. Fly the plane once in a while. That's the whole fun part of the trip. But who really knows RIP.

[@lawman5511]

If your bank balance allows a PC12, a twice yearly sim ride and recurrent training is also in the budget. We don’t see an accident rate like this in single pilot jets, which require a type rating.

[@TheFlightLevel]

You nailed it big time! The channel will be doing a complete look at the accident rate of the PC-12 since 1991. Cheers.

[@job1778]

Maybe the pilot fell asleep or got complacent and then was not able to control the plane once the weather got rough.

[@NeroontheGoon]

Which cue was missed that something was amiss, ALL OF THEM. A story of complete and utter underachievement.

[@peted5217]

Reads that pilot unfamiliar with solutions to deal with this planes possible fails.

[@davebennett1448]

First, this was an unauthorized charter flight, commonly referred to as a 135 1/2. The FAA defines this as any benefit to the pilot / owner from the flight and not just a monetary compensation. The pilot on his last flight review had trouble flying without an autopilot and he should not have been flying without a current copilot.

[@TheFlightLevel]

Thanks very much for this! Wow, very revealing and troubling information. This one is going to go down as many had suspected. So very, very sad. Thanks again!

[@CP_1413]

​@TheFlightLevel Nathan Kistler was training to get his pilot license, and was seated next to the pilot on this flight.

[@keithcharles2113]

Who owned and operated this aircraft?

[@TheFlightLevel]

The aircraft was owned and operated by Larry Haynie of Haynie Enterprises Inc.

[@DrTWG]

Non-pilot here . How on earth can someone be flying a high-performance turboprop with passengers , who lacks the airmanship to cope with loss of autopilot - why would any pilot put themselves in that position ? Madness .

[@SurviveTheDay]

No mention of this pilots flight hours or type rating, so we don’t know if the pilot was qualified on the type of aircraft. But I’ll assume if he’s flying at flight level 240 or 24,000 feet he’s at least IFR qualified. But regardless of rating or qualifications the pilot should know at the first sign of trouble you aviate, navigate then communicate in this order. These fundamental tenets in aviation are sadly missing in this tragedy.

[@TheFlightLevel]

We hope the NTSB will include the info you refer to in the final report.

[@skyboy1956]

No type rating required.

[@lindabyrd4481]

Go watch Pilot Debrief, Hoover gives the details about the pilots hours and extra stuff like that.

[@skyboy1956]

@@lindabyrd4481 that information has not been released so not even YT heros are not giving details.

[@markfiorentino9757]

At least the lord knew the end plan for them and there now in a better place, I just hope there last minutes on earth were not to terrifying.

[@lisamoore9523]

The Lord knew the end plan for them? Don't be ridiculous! That would mean an extremely cruel Lord to allow that to happen..

[@Pamiej-fp2tj]

We all die -Bible. It was their time. They were prepared for Heaven. Wish everyone knew the Lord. ✝️ 🙏 📖

[@janemartin229]

​@@lisamoore9523 God is omniscient--He knows everything. He didn't plan this, but He knew what would happen. He allows us free will. They made the decision to ride on a private plane with a friend rather than take a commercial flight. This appears to be human error. We don't know what will come as a result of this tragedy. I believe folks who never heard of the Nelons might listen to their music and be saved.

[@jacksonmarshallkramer5087]

This is EXACTLY why I would never get on a plane. Its Russian Roulette.

[@AVIDEOGAL]

YOU MEAN A SECOND PILOT WHO COULD ACTUALLY FLY THE PLANE WHEN THE AUTOPILOT WAS OFF, IS THAT WHAT THEY NEEDED ???

[@americangraffiticaroz2082]

The one gentleman had been working on his pilot license for awhile. Too bad he couldn’t fly either.

[@AB-tc8lx]

I thought that plane would have the range to make the entire flight. I thought the range was 2500.

[@craigsanderson6974]

So sad

[@kazuhira7777]

How easy is it to lose control of an airplane these days it seems more common now then back then

[@Chellz801]

It’s not. The issue is we become more aware with the advent of the internet. Things have always been happening like this. People have always stepped beyond the boundaries of their skills and gotten killed because of it. But we’re more aware because cameras and data is everywhere and easily accessible. Info like this wasn’t spread as widely as now.

[@robertzabel3702]

Sometimes being rich enough to fly a private jet turns deadly.

[@DoubleMonoLR]

It's not a jet.

[@skyboy1956]

what about a Sargent jet?

[@SimonWallwork]

Some pilots use the autopilot, others need it and a few rely on it.

[@TheFlightLevel]

Very cool statement and so true in many ways! I’ll remember this one! Cheers!

[@Standing.W.Israel]

Terrifying

[@enshk79]

How fast are KNOTS?? Wtf is a knot anyway??? Why is that even a measurement??

[@johna.camardojr6199]

RIP 🙏 ❤️

[@gunsaway1]

That airplane was way too much for him with his skill levels. What happened to the 180 turn out of the weather

[@rafterg7]

An very Similar incident in Florida a few years ago.

[@MalachiWhite-tw7hl]

Many envious "pilots" of modest means on this page . . .

[@FFEMTB08]

Did they ever find their bodies?

[@thecitizen49]

Never feel sorry for anyone that owns an airplane.

[@Kevin-wj4ed]

Small planes are a death trap!!!!!!!!!

[@mdbryan9525]

Not so unless spoons make people fat. I’m a retired 747 captain. I’ve seen great pilots and I have seen horrible ones. Every airplane has its quirks. They all want to be flown a certain way. Some even have individual quirks within their model. Small planes are safe provided that you respect their idiosyncrasies and don’t fly them beyond their and your abilities.

[@andre-7423]

not really, smal planes are very forgiving in off-field landings and ditchings, due to low minimum speed, and low mass. Inadequate training and currency, however, IS deadly. There was no reason to crash the plane becuse autopilot disengaged, if the plane just have been flown manually.

[@southernman523]

Best comment.tnx

[@lbowsk]

Oh Horse poop.

[@catsbyondrepair]

This a fairly large plane

[@AB-tc8lx]

I used to fly a little bit in my youth. Even on a long straight run, I was always taught to come off of auto pilot. And fly with your hands and feet. For a few minutes every hour Just to maintain your skills, I sometimes would fly 30 minutes out of a hour. I kind of didn't like auto pilot I preferd doing all the flying.

[@AnthonyBerry-q2m]

RIP to all involved 🙏

[@bsure4]

Flying id just too risky for amateurs. One little error and you and friends gone.

[@RCFLYERDAN]

IMHO….FAA regulations haven’t kept up with technology. A Private Pilot should not be flying a complex turbo prop above FL-180. They do not have the experience for high altitude weather and turbulence. Clearly a situation where money bought more than the Private Pilot could handle. This is the old story of the Bonanza being the doctor and lawyer killer. To me, it also seems like Hainey was running a 135 charter flight, rather then part 91. He probably didn’t get his Commercial Pilot Rating for this reason. If he did the simulator, then high altitude jet upset and recovery would have been trained.

[@skyboy1956]

134.5. It was not quite 135, lol

[@blakeheisler7940]

I am not a pilot but its seems with the amount of altitude he had when the autopilot disengaged he should have had plenty of time to simply do what pilots do, fly the plane. It didn't invert or something off the chart, it simply went nose up and rolled right and then flew straight but not level as it climbed a bit more before its final descent. What the hell. Was he even in the seat or distracted. Turbulence was present but so what, the plane was already doing a 360 so take control and straighten out at 180 and leave the area. Interesting to find out exactly what is meant by "in the last portion of the flight" in minutes / seconds. How long from the autoP disengage to him notifying atc. Was he already at the yoke and realizing the turbulence was too much or was he not on post till it was too late.

[@gusmc01]

Initially I thought the same thing. But if there was icing on the control surfaces, the plane may not have been responding to the pilot's inputs.

[@blakeheisler7940]

@@gusmc01 I agree with you. Its just the habits of people these days like driving highway speed, the entire vehicle is on cruze and one thumb on the wheel. That's pretty much "autopilot". toss in phone use or eating and steering tire blows. Its over. The pilot had a pretty ugly squall line he encountered so that and like you say, icing. May have defeated his every effort to fly the plane.

[@gusmc01]

@@blakeheisler7940 yep, makes me wonder if he was even aware he was flying into weather or even had the de-icing system on

[@mmayes9466]

@@gusmc01why would there be icing on the control surfaces?

[@mmayes9466]

@@blakeheisler7940 or maybe he was simply unable to control the plane by solely by reference to instruments.

[@person-ey2ct]

He lost all hope with his life after loss of child didn't want to live