LEAD ARM Questions Answered!

[@arhshields]

Can we get a Data Series vid on shoulder angle? I'm interested in seeing the differences between 90~115 (Lizotte/Gibson style). You keep flashing the tracker in this vid, WE NEED THE DATA!

[@mortenhalkjrjacobsen3621]

These last three videos, the grip one, the lead arm one and this is absolute gold thanks Josh

[@Theorose80]

This video explained a lot to me. Some random guy told me on a course "Concentrate on turning the hips and the rest will follow". That gave me a slight increase in speed for a while but I deteriorated very fast into throwing everything to the right. The arm followed the body and the harder I turned, the wider the arc became. I worked hard on getting out of that before finding this channel and kind of figured out by myself that I needed to use the arm more explicitly. It is a throw, after all. But it seldom looks like that when I watch people on the course. A lot of them look like they are spinning around 360 degrees and the disc just magically exists at the right moment.

[@clevelandthomsen7042]

I worked on this a little and picked up some GOOD distance. I was def focusing on lagging behind before and that made this husky boi throw weak. Messing around with slowing down my shoulders helped soooooo much. Thanks!

[@officerJswat]

Thanks Josh. Love the videos. This video really brought a few things together for me. Especially the final question. This may have just been the answer I was looking for, or not, we’ll see.

[@Hammis82]

These latest drills has had the best affect on my game in a long while. Im getting a lot more spin, which has increased my distance quite a bit, but also makes the discs behave the way they're supposed to. A flippy driver will still turn, even if I throw it soft. I used to think power came from the rotation and would basically throw myself into it and start rotating way to early. It wasn't until I recorded myself that I realised my disc was always leaving my hand while the elbow was still bent. So much energy wasted, and would often lead to discs not flying how I wanted to. Thank you so much for helping me figure out this part

[@alexanderbeebe5169]

I watch one of your videos and you completely breaks my form for 2 weeks but then I watch another one and you fix everyhting (I was trying to help the redirect with my wrist and it ruined my release point). This is a very stressfull process but thanks for going back and addressing the little details!

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

Sports are tough

[@dlewisfl]

@@OverthrowDiscGolf Simple, but not easy

[@fronkjd8853]

Looking healthy man, I see some forearm muscles showing. Anyways, loved the last analogy about throwing the trash away. I used to not actively throw the disc out because I was worried about "muscling it". I was told "it looks like you're not even throwing it". I'd get good results from athleticism and good footwork/lower, but I'm much more confident now that I throw the disc where I want it by actually using the arm within the appropriate timing and effort window. Thanks for these new videos!

[@octojunkapa2607]

This is great, please keep doing this after each video.

[@paulwetzel3.14]

Throwing the trash bag... I think that that statement right there may have helped me visualize what I should be doing a bit more. I think that I may have been letting my disc hand lag a bit more than it should. I'll have to give it a try the next time I head out for field work. 600 feet, here I come!

[@overfiend75]

Answer to last question is a service to the community. I'm only a few years into this sport but had a couple decades of experience in other disc sports. It was clear to me that the throw/swing had a different mechanic in DG so I tried to listen carefully to what was being taught. Messaging around leave the disc behind you, engage hips first, lag and so on ... I followed this faithfully and my form turned into exactly what you demonstrate at 5:30 ; collapsed pocket and disc either smashing into the left shoulder/chest or massively rounding to avoid that. Practiced and cemented all of this into muscle memory. Oy. I was able to make this work fairly well, but wasn't improving. So I tried just watching and self-teaching by emulating what good throwers do, and it turned out my existing form would have been a better base on which to build DG throwing form. Oh well. This sounds like a rant but I don't mean it that way. The truth is that better advice was out there, I just didn't know where to look. Over the past couple years there has been explosive growth in accessibility of good teaching around form. I don't agree with each and every thing taught by any one person. I appreciate very much, though, when good communicators demonstrate how one can go wrong by taking 'tips' too literally. What you are doing at 5:30 is one such example and it's important.

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

I copy and pasted other sports mechanics on the backhand side for a while. Once you see it, it’s so blatantly obvious that you don’t want to do that. It’s one of those eureka moments

[@nickytfor3]

Mikey with the fire outro tune. Great stuff Josh!

[@Joe_Handsome]

I've been spending a lot of my free time practicing these drills, and it's been a great help. I still can't launch a disc 400+, yet, but I can consistently send out a fairway driver(usually a Leopard) 280-320 feet with decent accuracy. I'm almost 40, and I've always been decently athletic and strong, so my natural inclination was to try to use strength to throw far, which, as you can imagine, doesn't translate well into disc golf consistency. When I used play, years ago, I wouldn't even bother throwing back hand, because I would always try to crank it, and it would hurt, because I didn't know how to actually transfer force into the disc and let it dissipate with a follow-through. I would just throw 200 foot forehand flicks, because that's all I could do without tweaking my shoulders. Now, years later, after a long time off, I am trying to correct my bad habits. Backhands finally feel decent. I still feel clunky, some times, but I'm never in pain. I had my best round ever(3 under par) at my local course yesterday. Felt good. I know I can get that down a lot more if I can keep working on my form and really solidify my consistency. Thanks for the videos.

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

Congratulations on the new personal best!

[@Audiot4pe]

That first question was what I was wondering as well. I assumed I was suppose to be death grip it and the disc ended up never ripping out of my hand. I should have realized that you also meant that I should correctly adjust my grip, which seems kinda obvious to me now lol 😅

[@ciromassa7322]

Hello Josh, first of all, Thank You for using your time to help people with this sport that wr love so much! That said, I'm so confused about the way your telling us to use the lead arm now. So, where back to starting the lawnmower and knocking down doors with our elbow, lol. I thought we moved away from that and we are now focusing on creating space by REACHING OUT, then in and out again. If we are supposed to still.use the reach out method, I wish you would clarify. Thanks bro

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

I never liked the reach out idea. Out in out, which i previously used, is probably better said as wide tight wide. In other words when you extend in the backswing you create space and then get the disc in tight through the pocket then back out/wide with the extension. Same thing different (and I think better) way of explaining it.

[@rickman17x16]

Thanks!

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

Thanks for the donation Rick!

[@joethorpe7141]

Thank you Josh! 57 years old, playing for 2 years and your videos have been an absolute game changer. I am having a problem hitting early tight gaps. I hit the tree on the left a lot. Is this more of a touch shot? I try to power down and early release. Just wondering if you have advice. Thanks again.

[@shawnkimball5019]

Can you contextualize your comments about how the arm leads the throw with slow-mo video of pro's where the leading knee and foot are already pointing a little forward by the time the disc reaches the pocket? It seems the lower body does lead the throw, or am I way off? Maybe you'll cover this in the footwork video? Love your vids and your engagement with viewers!

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

I can. It can be said in a very strict sense that the hips lead the throw. It is so small and happens so quickly though that the damage caused by trying to engage the hips actively takes a bit of working out. The simplest way to understand the lower body’s involvement, imho, is as a base to throw the upper body forward from. I kind of think of it as the wheels of a trebuchet. We roll it forward with our walkup, then lock the wheels, then the arm goes with that support underneath. More to come

[@jovanlouis4791]

Cloud breaker held its line after these tips 🤯 subbed!!

[@christofferstahre133]

So, you don’t teach the out-in-out v-shaped lead arm movement anymore? Or do I misunderstand?

[@tonydavila2606]

He’s still doing the v shape because he’s reaching straight out of his chest and releasing straight out of his chest. The disc is just pivoting around his hand. If he wasn’t doing the V shape. He would be reaching behind his left shoulder which would cause him to round.

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

^this

[@christofferstahre133]

@@tonydavila2606 Well, I can see what you mean, but still there is (imo) quite a difference between the box drill-era and this lead arm movement. The reachback is the same but I think there’s quite a different view on the hit point and the power pocket. He used to say that the disc should be close to the back pec in the power pocket etc. I guess that coaches evolve their theories and drills but just wanted to know if josh has left the talk about a out-in-out v-shape arm movement.

[@itlnstln]

It’s not that much different, it’s that the elbow is sliding forward a bit for more efficiency. It’s still out-in-out with the hit at 10:00

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

@@christofferstahre133 we left box drill a while back when we upgraded it to box drill 2.0. The out-in-out is still there and can be used to describe the arm extension in the backswing and out of the pocket. The issue with box drill was that it kept people on the back pec. That I corrected with box drill 2.0. Probably a better way of saying it is wide-tight-wide. But I do believe this is a clearer way of explaining how to get into the positions. I still use out in out for some people who collapse pocket on the backswing.

[@happyboyeeeee]

Josh, for those of us with a wide angle pull, would we need to pull with the arm too? Practicing timing with a straight pull like what’s shown, you definitely need to pull your arm or else it’s too far back like you said. But for a wide angle pull, I’m getting into the pocket with no pull of the arm. It also feels real awkward trying to pull from a wide angle versus from straight back.

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

There’s a chance your arm is too wide, but there is a world where the natural collapse probably works. I’m not 100% against it.

[@ToddsDiscGolf]

Watching these is turning me into Ricky Wysocki 🔥

[@luftisbollen]

whats up, i am concern about the power pocket, left shoulder or the center , where is 90 degree angle, gannon buhr talk about rotate the shoulder. worked alot to have disc at left shoulder and shoulder rotate more than 45 degree forward to not strongarm the disc, logic is the shoulder slow down after 45 degree, iam not sure duh, if you look at mcbeth he have the disc at left shoulder, and 90 degree elbow and breast is almost forward at release. any idea, thx

[@luftisbollen]

ahh, forgot, the overarm is just stiff before release should not be moved, shoulder and overarm should be like an L shape to not lose energy, and gannon buhr throws pretty faaaaaaar ❤️

[@spork_bender5407]

Any recommendations for wrist tendonitis rehab

[@gosteve1]

Talk to a physical therapist

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

Talk to a physical therapist

[@dlewisfl]

How does an online 1-on-1 lesson work? I saw a Simon quick tip on one of his vdeos where he says you start the pull forward with the elbow, not the shoulder. When you say the arm starts the motion, should the feeling be pulling forward with the elbow or are you pulling with the hand?

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

People send me their form beforehand and we address issues and run through corrections/drills virtually

[@jmvalle91]

Question for the lead arm. On your sloppy bird video you say to leave the elbow loose and let it slap. But here we use the arm. Would that still be pulling or no?

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

This is a different style than slappy bird and would be more in the pulling camp for sure

[@Rydal1]

Hi sir, do i need to think that my elbow should be out and away from the body

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

Yes

[@solidstate90]

I could use more on that last question you answered, this is the Sh#t that i have been trying to fix for idk 3 months+. So your saying I don't need to try to rotate my hips/back shoulder and only should be (for a lack of better word) "Pulling" my arm past my chest and having the other parts follow when the throwing arm makes it impossible to not rotate the hips/back shoulder??

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

Correct. Assuming I’m reading correctly.

[@solidstate90]

@@OverthrowDiscGolf lol ya kind of a hard thing to word properly. IDK if you will see this but recently I watched a loopghost video where he said to guide the disc into the pocket instead of pulling, I have an issue where my lead shoulder will raise up cuz I'm trying to damn hard to pull the disc into the deep pocket. IDK how to "Guide" it tho. Anyway thanks for the reply, love the videos 👍

[@NickCarroll]

@@solidstate90 I think part of the reason why people like you and I raise our lead shoulder when throwing is we are leaning forward, and it's a balancing mechanism to some extent. What apparently combats that is rotating around the spine, not leaning forward and becoming off balance. It's easy to lean back at the start of the throw, then lean forward towards the end. But that lateral movement leaks power.

[@andrewjung6987]

What do you guys think about the “back leg slingshot” disc golf guy having people severely lagging the disc behind? Honestly I’ve only gotten hurt doing what he preaches, but I was curious if that was the method or just me

[@itlnstln]

Seabas22 has a great post on DGCR about this; I'll have to see if I can dig it up. He's basically rounding, but has enough athletic ability to make it work OK

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

We disagree on several aspects of the throw

[@seeballgetball937]

If your less athletic this is the easier form to follow but you’ll max out your distance ceiling quicker doing it this way

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

@@seeballgetball937 we’re gonna disagree on that one

[@seeballgetball937]

⁠@@OverthrowDiscGolfwhy don’t you 2 do a video and debate it? I’m sure I’m not the only one who would love to watch it. You can’t deny the positions he gets in to the pros get in to. Play your videos of Simon and especially drew you filmed a year ago they both fire the opposite side 1st and match slingshot style more than what your teaching here.

[@datrucksdavea2080]

thanks for the recap, how did U know I had all these issues!!! lol

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

I’m a wizard David

[@datrucksdavea2080]

​@@OverthrowDiscGolfThe arm leading the lag is a hard feeling to get, and it kind of boggles the mind that it works better but it does and I'm getting it. Thanks again

[@Rydal1]

hi sir how do I not colpase into the pocket

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

We have a video on the power pocket that we did recently. I would recommend that

[@timeandspacevintage3380]

Day 1 of asking for a pro form video on Niklas, imo one of the cleanest mechanical forms in dg!

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

There’s gonna be a lot of days lol. Would love it but we’d have to have the footage. Which means we’d have to take it. Logistics… le sigh

[@timeandspacevintage3380]

@@OverthrowDiscGolf Niklas confirmed for the twirly bird 3.0 video lets GOOOI

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

@@timeandspacevintage3380 for sure lol

[@miko.mikolaynen]

I've been practicing for a year, technically I think it looks good, but I still can't break the 100 meter on the backhand. :/

[@BookieCrook]

Tech discs are expensive. Can I have yours?

[@OverthrowDiscGolf]

No. But you can have our affiliate link

[@ZeeK33NKS]

LAG IS NOT A POSITION! Sorry for yelling lol. Lag is simply catching your backswing momentum and redirecting it into the downswing. Only way to do that properly is what OT states. #unison

[@mizzougrad001]

Its a fn drill people. Ugh