Lead Belchin' Time! Ogre Kingdoms vs Warriors of Chaos - Total War Warhammer 3

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[@-nav-398]

8:45 That's when you know they've upgraded from Ogre kingdoms to Ogre Empire. Steel, Fat, and Guns all day.

[@NatesMiniatures]

Awesome, love to see some Ogres get some air time

[@majormoolah5056]

Community: We're starving! We've had nothing but maggoty bread for three stinking months! CA: Here is a big, free expansion for Total War Pharaoh. Community: Looks like maggoty bread's back on the menu, boys!

[@PeterButchens]

Prof had a solid build and control of the battle, but I guess the boys were just too hungry/distracted to go for the objectives :P

[@S73wy]

Pretty easy to have a solid build vs ogres, just spam spears and halberds

[@cringelord4204]

Damm pown rly played it so well just he didn't get those objectives else he would win big time

[@corsair831]

Really good game, fun to see a Tyrant at work

[@lordcatpotato]

the devastating gnoblars missile flank , yes yes

[@ashisunblade]

Tyrant and Leadbelchers, what a fun build!

[@emultra759]

Would a Stonehorn have been useful here? For the disruption and terror, with no ranged to focus it down.

[@turinRTS]

Maybe yeah!

[@dds9312]

A stonehorn would have meant less infantry for ogre and more chaos halberds for the big boy then

[@Kollektivable]

We really need more content 😅 Love you're stuff❤

[@climax050]

I love me some orges, are they in a more balanced state where they're allowed into competitive play nowadays?

[@cachalot12]

Does this mean the issue that caused you to ban ogres has been fixed? Also Happy Birthday Turin!

[@sentinellevail8313]

damn these maps look so good why cant we get more maps for multiplayer in the base game

[@ndukwui]

Always nice to see Ogres. I wish they could get more variety in their roster by now

[@kylemorin3945]

What a glorious showing by the Golden Shogun!

[@nicklindberg90]

Lords, my ogres!

[@AlonbF9182]

Do u have playlist for land battles?

[@Jekalmat]

Please cast more live ones Turin.

[@crowwellan741]

1:44 "unless you're a deamon of nurgle in which case he can bring you back" Is that just lore-talk or can we actually resurect deamon units?

[@corteaz2793]

That might just be the ROR festering stooges. Not sure about normal units.

[@crowwellan741]

@@corteaz2793 oh yeah right, thanks

[@ProphetoftheMetal]

Oh man! I was going to head back to work, but ogres…

[@Luizguilherme-iz9yl]

does the 2v2 work already? my god 2v2 tournaments would be so great! the amount of combinations of factions that could be done. I miss the old 2v2 ultra funds

[@profpwn9446]

2v2 still suffers from the eternal problem of TW, that they usually become quite laggy

[@Luizguilherme-iz9yl]

@@profpwn9446 that makes me sad man, my favorite thing was watching 2v2s ultra funds, the amount of possibilities and strategies that could be employed by sinergysing both factions

[@christianweibrecht6555]

Hooray for Tyrants

[@moesversicherungsbet]

imagine if he brought the big maw aoe punishment spell

[@profpwn9446]

I thought about it! I was so afraid of a mutalith beast build I decided against it

[@Anvilarm07]

Cool batrep. Good to see the Ogres in action again not they they've been nerfed back down to earth.

[@will7466]

This map consistently has the most lag

[@user-lj2xr9de6e]

Seems like Ogres are not OP any more. That's nice !!

[@wangson3241]

Hellya ogre

[@hailhydra7959]

Generous of the mighty Pwn to not go for the objectives and give Subutai a chance.

[@heinz8233]

8:15 Turin you've been saying that mortis engine effects are bad against monstrous units for YEARS but why is that?? As far as I know mortis engine effects max out at very low model counts, so it will do pretty much full damage to a 16 model monstrous unit. It will probably be more cost effective than against infantry given the higher price per HP point of most monstrous stuff. Mortis effects are only meh against single entities or units with extremely few models left. Clearing this up is slowly becoming a personal crusade of mine over the years lmao.

[@florians9949]

Doesn’t mortis engine do damages per model? This is a question I always had but I can’t find an answer to that. Because if it does then I can see why Turin say it is bag against low entities models.

[@heinz8233]

@@florians9949 as far as I know it rolls for damage for every model on a unit, but the actual damage that goes through is capped at 4-6 models depending on the ability. The damage roll is like 50% so a 16 model unit has 90% to 99% chance of receiving full damage every second.

[@Kaggiekins]

In Warhammer 2, they had a hit chance that rerolled until it ran out of models or succeeded. So larger model counts generally meant you were guaranteed to do max damage, and small squads (or big squads that had taken 80% losses) were inefficient targets. In warhammer 3, it's guaranteed to succeed (but random 50-100% damage). Most mortis effects cap at 4 models per unit affected. Harbinger of Pestilence is actually the highest model cap mortis (I think) at 4 damage per tick to 6 models per unit, so mortises are generally equally fine against monstrous infantry or normal infantry. Active damage over time abilities vary wildly but some of the most-used apply to as many as 25 models, like Melkoth's, Ushirian's, or the Poison Wind phase, in which case they won't be as effective. The ingame displays are awful for revealing any of these mechanics sadly. You have to read the packfile tables.

[@grandghostchase]

Even if it can hit every single model at once, and only ever hits 16 models from big model units at max, it's still better again big model units. For one, monstrous units have a lot more HP than standard infantry. Meaning that while a mortis engine is killing off models on an infantry unit, it's not reducing any combat effectiveness of a Monstrous unit until it has done enough damage to kill the entire model. Which takes a lot longer, obviously. Secondly, monstrous units are generally a much larger threat to any mortis engine units than infantry units are. This is because low model counts but high weapon strengths allow every single unit to be hitting the mortis engine at once, while with infantry, only about 10 to ~20 units will be engaged with the mortis engine at max, the rest just not having any space to do so. Plus, any nearby infantry units can not help at all against the mortis engine. Two stacked units of infantry will not perform a lot better against a mortis engine than one. Meanwhile, two stacked units of monstrous units will definitely perform a lot better than one. Which means that the mortis engine's best aspect, that being blobfights, is much easier and less threatening when facing infantry compared to monstrous units. And monstrous units generally don't get knocked down, or at least less often, by random attacks by mortis engine type units. During these knockdowns on infantry, I believe - though by no means am sure - that the mortis engine effect can continue ticking down the HP of the infantry unit, while taking much less damage in return since some of the infantry will not be able to fight back. For monstrous units, this is not the case, at least not as often, meaning that while doing the same damage, you are taking MUCH more damage in return. And quicker too. Furthermore, if a mortis engine unit does get in danger, infantry are generally low enough speed that they can't chase them, so the mortis engine is free to continue cycle charging and applying its damage across the battlefield. Meanwhile, if you try that against a lot of monster units, they can turn around and smack your mortis engine. And since monstrous units have more speed, they can choose to chase your mortis engine, or just retreat from the fight and find another avenue to assist in the battle. Also, against any faction that's not ogres, you're going to be hard pressed to find a fight with a lot of monstrous units stacked together, compared to fights with a lot of infantry stacked together. It's not impossible of course, but you'll see it less often. Plus, monstrous units are much more vulnerable to single target fire, whether it be from cannons, magic missiles, direct damage spells, or other such things. To get the equivalent of killing one model out of a 16 model unit, you'd have to kill ~6 model from a 100 model unit. Which is definitely very possible, you see it in this game even. But, generally monstrous units are a lot more expensive than infantry units, and less numerous. Killing one rat ogre might be roughly equivalent to killing ~10 clanrats, for example, but the Skaven player is more likely to have 4 clanrat units than to have 4 rat ogre units. So removing those rat ogres becomes a higher priority than removing those clanrats. Especially since, as stated before, in the later stages of a battle, those clanrats will be unable to stop a mortis engine unit, whereas rat ogres could potentially threaten a low HP mortis engine. And since monstrous units are generally a higher value target, killing them slowly with a mortis engine is not the best way of dealing with them. You want to take them out with something specialised in dealing with them. This does not mean that mortis engines are garbage against monstrous units. Just that the theoretical damage output of a mortis engine being potentially more cost effective against monstrous units does not equal them being strategically better against monstrous units than infantry. You can see this effect in game, if you put up a mortis engine unit, let's just say Festus, against a standard Ogre Bull unit, and a similarly priced infantry unit - let's say standard Chaos Warriors. I don't know the price off the top of my head, but it sounds close enough - Festus will probably take less damage from the Chaos Warriors than from the Ogre Bulls, and slower too. There are probably some exceptions. The two mortis engine units from Shadows of Change probably route an Ogre Bull unit fast enough that they'll perform better than against infantry, especially anti-large infantry. But that's not due to their mortis engine, that's due to the fact that they're big fighty SEMs with anti-large.

[@shinjikurosawa957]

I believe the flaw in your thinking is that mortis engine effects cap out at very low model counts. Where is this information from? Can you provide an example for testing? The classic VC Mortis Engine can be damaging hundreds of models, under the right circumstances, which you can see by the HP drops on the units affected by it.

[@Kodoschannel1]

Sippppppeeeeeee

[@Goony1246]

Are OK still bugged?

[@profpwn9446]

Believe that has been fixed!