Leadership gloves or boots for Archer [How stats work] Rise of Kingdoms

To clarify on the conclusion,
There is a break even point where gaining attack will outpace gaining defense or even health. In this case the benefits of +6 health and + 7.5% attack does not outweigh +13% defense. The math also backs that up if you run the updated troop count numbers going into turn 2 and beyond.
0:00 Intro
1:38 Primer on Stats
7:52 The Results
10:23 How being tanky actually helps with your offense
13:00 The Conclusion: craft the gloves
#riseofkingdoms #rok

[@hasibulhasan2064]

Wick gaming was truly ahead of his time. My guy made everything easier for us single handed!!

[@soulstart89]

Very true. I still check his discord hoping he comes back lol.

[@tsyforka]

I was thinking about that past 2 weeks, thanks for the video!!

[@davidw.5185]

Thank you for the content. 👍

[@68Busdriver]

Thank you!

[@greenhorighzonz]

great breakdown! I made leadership boots/pants as well because these were the blueprints I had... always have thought the gloves would've been better since archers are so squishy... but my impatience got the better of me and crafted what was available...

[@68Busdriver]

It’s a micro optimization. Not that big of a deal.

[@Razznaz]

That your damage goes down with your troop count doesn't really effect attack in the way you are saying i think. More attack still is going to increase the damage you do by a certain % compared to what it would have been. The idea that more tanky stats means higher troop count for longer, which means more damage does make sense but i would say it can depend how often you tank. If you often are positioning and hitting marches that are not hitting you back then attack is bringing you more value than more toughness imo. It likely depends how you play and I am sure some players are underrating attack. Also keep in mind that sqrt with troop count at the end of the formula does decrease the damage you get from troop count a bit.

[@68Busdriver]

If you ran the same pair against each other and gave one a 5% attack token and the other a 5% defense token, what do you think would happen? The one with defense would win and if you track the reports, you'll also see a point where the one with the defense token starts doing more damage than the one with the attack token. The math also checks out according to the formula. There is a break even point when +attack and +health will outweigh +defense. That break even point will vary based on the base stats of the unit, in addition to the health, defense and attack of you and the enemy....if you use the same amount of troops. If you plug in the numbers into the formula and run it out....even by the second turn you can see the +13.5 defense start gaining on the +attk/defense side where it is taking less less damage relative to the +attk/defense side and the damage it is dealing is getting closer and closer to the side with more attk. I chose to explain it in layman's terms so the idea is easier to digest an grasp but the math also backs up what I am saying.

[@dukepr]

Wick had some vids on the best equipment based on troop type, too bad he retired before the iconic and leadership set arrived. Also the 6 piece set gives that extra %5hp while the 2 piece leadership gives %3def.

[@juliens.2616]

I do have a full archer set for my 1st archer march. For the second one, I’ll go with 312 setup: 3 - Leadership gloves, pants and boots 1 - Milkyway 2 - Set weapon and helm (I won’t take KvK weapon and helm, cause I already have thing such as sacred dominion and pride of the khan that will suck up all my KvK coins, along with inscriptions)

[@samerabbassi1218]

I like your suggestion. How is your 2nd march doing in the field ?

[@pokerchannel6991]

nope. you are approaching it incorrectly. nope. good god. no. keep the golden sword weapon until you can get the set weapon. Furthermroe, I don't care if you have the archer kvk helm or not, because that piece is not that important. But, to do 3 piece leadership is not ideal. So, do this: Pride of Khan, Golden Age, Milky way, leadership pants, leadership gloves (as per this video--this vid is right about leadership glove and leadership pants); then, get the set weapon, set boots. Do not go 3 piece leadership. Go 2, 2, 1,1. 2 set pieces (set weapon, set boots; Leaderhip pants, leadership gloves). On top of that, get the milky way. [as for helm, it doesn't matter. you can do revival helm; or pride of khan helm, or the KVK archer helm. It don't matter).

[@jaimehoshino5859]

I have almost the same set, but I've got KvK Weapon and Helm. According to this Wick Gaming Formula, we get less Dmg with this set than 2/2/2.

[@realjohnlove]

I’ve been struggling with this. I have Leadership legs & gloves Dragonbreath Bow & Plate The boots have been my debate. Im thinking of waiting for Leadership boots. & Dragonbreath helm

[@vinled2337]

Im considering using Milkyway (talented), Hydras blast and the rest Glorious Godess for the Health , defense and 3% skill dmg reduction on 4 piece bonus. Do you think that would work or not enough attack? I find that my archers are always the ones getting nuked early in the murderball and Id like them to be more tanky

[@68Busdriver]

Honestly I’ve thought about the leadership 4 piece. It’s also flexible to flex to a garrison or leadership commander in the future. In the grand scheme of things these are micro optimizations. How you play actually makes a much bigger difference than choosing between the leadership boots or gloves

[@10tco10]

Thanks for the video. I am curious about your math and how you calculated the 3% difference as it is not fully transparent. Did you plug the numbers in (based on your screenshot of archers) for say 210k vs 210k 197+275+7.5 attack, 192+188 defense, 192+126+6 health vs 197+275 attack, 192+188+13.5 defense, 192+126 health into wick's formula and get 357 vs 346? In which case I believe there may be an error, but I am just wondering as you haven't actually shown the math so I may be mistaken

[@68Busdriver]

The % is based off of the base stats so 7.5% attack actually is 14.775. And the total stats is 197+275+14.775. Hope that makes a difference. I didn’t want to show a bunch of numbers on the slide because I thought it would take away from people understanding what the stats actually translates to. But I tested the number for when the enemy has full gear. For my marches, I tested it with full gear but just flipping the two pieces in question and also no gear except the two pieces in question.

[@10tco10]

Thank you for the response and helping me understand better as it was quite late for me I had made an incorrect assumption. My preference for this type of content next time would be you that show your workings and where your stats come from, for eg. you are using a 5% archer health skin instead of the more meta twilight falls which makes the 13.5% def look better as it helps the balancing. You spend a few minutes in 'The Results' section explaining the maths, but without any numbers. In my opinion, I would suspect if people are watching this type of content they are nerding out and trying to micro-optimized as such would be the type of person who likes to see the numbers. Finally, it also depends on commander pairings. Just to make things simple, I added non-instant proc stats to my calculations for my one turn of 200 damage factor. Boudica/ysg adds 30%att and either 20%def or 50%def (ysg museum and boudica above/below 80%). Compared with ZL/hermann 20%att, 20% def and 30% health. Boudica/ysg exacerbates the imbalance as neither provide health and as such the 6%health and 7.5% attack may optimal whereas the 13.5 def may be optimal with Zhuge due to his 30% health helping to balance the defensive ratio. So yes, set 1 will do more damage as it has attack, set 2 will be more tanky, but I am not convinced you have determined accurately the difference between the overall performance i.e. ~3% more and less damage, as we just have to take your word for it and hope you have correctly done the calculations. However, I enjoyed this one and you other videos, so please keep it up 😅 @@68Busdriver

[@68Busdriver]

@@10tco10 so you did calculations calculating the difference between ZL and YSG? What is the difference? Also post your numbers please 😬

[@pokerchannel6991]

I currently already own DB weapon, kvk helm, milk way, Leadership pants. Since these are legendary, I will not dismantle any of it. So, those are locked down. Therefore: If I get the Leadership Gloves, I will get 6% defense (plus base defense of +3 from iconi, plus a set effect of 3% defense); Then, I add the DB boots (which gives 7.5 defense, plus iconic base health +3, plus set effect of 3% attack). Based on the gear I already own, I 100% think that Leader glove + DB boots is better than the Leadership boots (which gives 6% health, iconic base health +3, and 3% defense set effect) and DB glove (which gives 7.5% attack, iconic base attack +3, and set effect of 3% attack). If you want to pin point the problem child, it is the DB gloves. DB gloves not only gives attack stats, the iconic of it also gives attack. Contrast this with the Leadership glove, it gives bonus defense, and base defense stats. So, the DB glove is the problem child. TLDR: base on my gear, the DB boots, and Leadship gloves is the way to go.

[@Madao_98]

oh shit... I wish I'd have found your videos sooner Right now I have the chest and gloves from the dragon set, leadership pants and Im still with the epic pieces in the weapon, shoes and helmet What should I craft from now on to be the most effective in the field with my archer march? I also only have horn and the blue flag as accesories

[@68Busdriver]

Ring if you can then leadership boots to get the 2 pc bonus

[@Madao_98]

@@68Busdriver got it, thank you very much 🙏🙏

[@Scoxb]

Sorry to comment on an old video, but I have been theory crafting as I am upgrading my 7th march gear (2nd archer set). Don't you think one could argue that doing all three leadership pieces with the milky way and the two kvk pieces is actually best in slot for archers? Sure you lose the set bonus of 3% attack, but you gain the 1% of health on the chest, and get a way better stat distribution in general, coupled with the unique iconic stats of the leadership gloves. I am curious to hear your input, as you are thoughtful on this stuff like me. Lol

[@68Busdriver]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/aqe5YZ-rpK2hjc0si=LOwQZF3W30LlacU7 I talk about it around the 25 min mark.

[@vaynardBG]

Thank you very much, really need this. My 1st archer use the full Dragon Breath set, now I plan to make 2nd archer. Btw how the boots and gloves (+13,5 def), compare with the 2-2-2 (kvk weapon and helm). Or make new video for that =)

[@68Busdriver]

The kvk pieces give more of the same stats than the dragon breath counterpart. You can plug the stat difference into that formula and find out pretty easily

[@pokerchannel6991]

for starters, get the DB chest, DB boots, leadership pants, leadership gloves. Then, get the kvk weapon. The last thing you do is the kvk helm, when all else is done. That is the proper way to do 222

[@MrKleju]

What about 2 kvk items, Milky Way and 3 leadership items ?

[@68Busdriver]

I’m not sure. I didn’t do the math on it. But even if that’s not better…..I think the difference in performance would be pretty small

[@realjohnlove]

Sorry this is so long but wanted your feedback. So I came back because I got frustrated with Egg Event never coming. I ended up crafting Dragonbreath Boots & it crit/talented So now its 10% defense My question is on Dragonbreath Pants (Tassets) vs Revival Legs 11% attack vs 10% defense I do have 3 Dragonbreath pieces (Weapon, Chest & now Boots) I honestly think crafting legs without gloves & helm would be a huge waste Right now this particular march is 1. Revival Helm & Revival Pants for 3% attack bonus both give 10% defense so thats 20% defense 2. Dragonbreath Chest 11% health, Dragonbreath Bow 20% defense & Dragonbreath boots Talented which is 10% defense 3. For now just using Leather Gloves or Revival Gauntlet until I get Dragonbreath Gauntlet Do you think it makes more sense to wait until I have all 6 Dragonbreath pieces & save materials & just run Revival pants instead of Dragonbreath pants? Or is 11% attack worth giving up 10% defense? The stats for this march are 50% Defense, 14.5% health, 6% attack (because of the 2 set bonus) Vs if I do Dragonbreath legs 40% Defense, 14.5% Health & 14% attack + 3% Skill Damage from 4 piece set bonus. Keep in mind I upgraded from Commander Boots which was 8% Attack

[@68Busdriver]

That’s alot…. But if I understand correctly….. if you plan on running 6 piece dragon breath…. Pants should’ve been your second to last upgrade with the boots being your last. Since you already upgraded the boots do the legs last

[@realjohnlove]

@@68Busdriver thanks for the feedback. I was definitely figuring the same thing but wanted to get a second opinion. Very helpful. I’m gonna work on collecting the fragments for Gloves & Helm then craft pants. I haven’t crafted the pants yet so I can save materials for now.

[@cyntai6690]

finally someone who see this... all the experts here who thinks leadership boots are better are just ppl who saw it in another video and think THIS IS IT... wake up guys - btw great video

[@68Busdriver]

Appreciate it

[@Gamblor10]

For the majority of marches, you technically made a mistake. I'm well aware of the ROK battle formula, ROK simulator, and how the diminishing returns on stats work. The nice part about archers is that 6pc works, 2/2/2 works, and 4/2 works. It all works; anything thereafter is truly a micro optimization.

[@miseq4342]

But you need set blooprints for all troop types. I like having chest pretty much for free as archer using milky way😂

[@Rabbit_Gaming4]

2,2,2 is the way to go, boots and legs from leadership.

[@pokerchannel6991]

2,2,1,1 is the way to go: DB chest, DB boots, Leadership pants, Leadership gloves; Kvk Helm, KvK weapon. So, that makes you 100% wrong in your post, on so many levels.. 100%

[@Sosa40706]

@@pokerchannel6991 you just described 2,2,2 except with gloves

[@realjohnlove]

So Dragonbreath boots over Flame Treads talented basically?

[@68Busdriver]

That should be your last or second to last upgrade I think. I think by itself a talented flame tread actually is better than the dragon breath boots.

[@realjohnlove]

@@68Busdriver right now I have Dragonbreath Bow, Dragonbreath Plate, Leadership Legs, Leadership Gloves, Revival Helm, Flame Treads on my first archer march

[@68Busdriver]

@@realjohnlove so it depends on your other marches. Is it more value to upgrade something else first

[@realjohnlove]

@@68Busdriver I don’t really have any blueprints of equipment I need on my Cav & Infantry march. Waiting on Cav chest & boots, Infantry boots & gloves. I was gonna do Leadership boots but dont have the blueprints. I do have Dragonbreath Boots in my bag & Dragonbreath Tassets (Legs) too

[@68Busdriver]

@@realjohnlove then it’s your call. Wait for BP or craft what you have.

[@pokerchannel6991]

if we can't have wick, we will just have to take the reincarnate of wick, which is this vid, which is you. You are the exact same 100% as wick. So, wick is back. officially, in a reincarte. We are very fortunate to have wick back 100%. confirmed.

[@68Busdriver]

Haha thanks but what he did and what I did are completely different levels. He literally figured out the formula.

[@gtownwr]

too bad i already made the gloves and chest from the archer set. so its the pants and boots for me...

[@68Busdriver]

In the grand scheme not that big of a deal

[@pokerchannel6991]

you have to go with the path that has already been locked down. By making those bad gloves, you seriously locked yourself down hopeless. This is why I waited and waited and waited and still never crafted the DB gloves. It just suxored so much arse that I always had higher priorities than the DB gloves. And now, I have a clear path that does not involved that bad glove. Let this be a lesson to you. NEVER prioritize things that are bad. If you were honest with yourself, you would go back have have seen that those gloves were 100% low priority. When in doubt, just craft something that has higher priority. And an easy thing to do is: if you have doubt, craft a ring or a horn. Let that be a future lesson to you.

[@XAND3R29]

Always boots cuz archers have a lack of hp

[@petterkarlsson3627]

Forgetting one approach to all this. Archers are highly targeted, and the no amount of defense saves you from that. Ergo, dealing more dmg until you are targeted has its merits.

[@68Busdriver]

So your point is since they are going to get targeted anyways might as well sacrifice defense for more offense and get the kills while you can?

[@petterkarlsson3627]

Yes. Leaning into what archers are good at, instead of trying to cover their weakness.

[@Andy_Long]

Yeah a lot of bigger spenders use kvk helm+weapon, milky way, ians choice, tassets of the war god, and commanders boots so that you deal a ton more damage going out. Because all the pieces(excluding the kvk ones) come from crystal keys and lucernes they are easier and faster to crit and level up. But realistically most people should do kvk pieces+archer set chest and boots+leadership legs and gloves. Also there could be an argument made to use Pride of the Khan instead of Ancestral Mask of the Night because it gives 8% health rather than 15% attack(for archers). While this route would eliminate all attack from the build I think having the kvk helm for archers is better.

[@68Busdriver]

@@petterkarlsson3627 that’s beyond my experience. If I played that way I would run out of resources way too quick.

[@PsykhoPanda]

As a heavy Cav user I do àlways Target Archers the Very Moment instead them lol

[@Adammoooooo]

I don’t think this is true at all. When u deal more damage, u make marches less sustainable making them weaker and making a march going under 50% and making them take more sevs, literally every argument u can use FOR the gloves u can use FOR the boots. Like draining ur enemies of rss faster and making them go red and catching them offguard. Also u don’t get better kills if u are less tanky and deal more damage, it’s an equal balance. The only difference is boots make u get ur kills faster than gloves do. Also the health and attack will do more damage than 2 defense pieces it doesn’t matter how u slice if ur not fighting under 50% therefore that “short time for punching” is all the time u need to do better on the field. I mean idk if ur trying to justify ur gear or ur genuinely curious about this discussion but that’s the difference between 3% increased damage and 3% more damage taken.

[@68Busdriver]

If you ran the same pair against each other and gave one a 5% attack token and the other a 5% defense token, what do you think would happen? The one with defense would win and if you track the reports, you'll also see a point where the one with the defense token starts doing more damage than the one with the attack token. The math also checks out according to the formula. There is a break even point when +attack and +health will outweigh +defense. That break even point will vary based on the base stats of the unit, in addition to the health, defense and attack of you and the enemy....if you use the same amount of troops. If you plug in the numbers into the formula and run it out....even by the second turn you can see the +13.5 defense start gaining on the +attk/defense side where it is taking less less damage relative to the +attk/defense side and the damage it is dealing is getting closer and closer to the side with more attk. I chose to explain it in layman's terms so the idea is easier to digest and grasp but the math also backs up what I am saying.

[@pokerchannel6991]

it depends on how you fight. I like fighting where the damage I deal out is because I have 5 to 6 healthy marches. The damage comes from the synergy of the five marches (i buff and debuff a ton, giving my five marches a synergy where the damage is dealt out not from any one individual marche, but the combination of debuffing the target and my hitting that debuffed target with five marches). So, I don't need my single march (archer, here, in this example, to deal out more damage. I need him to stay alive so that five marches can hit a single enemy target that has been terribly debuffed). In other words, how I do damage is not by having individual high damage dealers (in this example: a high damage dealer would be the 3% extra damage, while taking 3% more damage). I just don't need that. My damage comes from: 1. debuff the target, 2. murder swarm that target with five marches. So, the way I fight, which is the only correctly way to fight: is I swarm the target with five to six marches, debuffing the target, and kill the f out of them. This game is made for 5 to 6 marches. In a five march surround, you gain 15% all damage bonus. That is a free bonus. And on top, you debuff the target with dagger, mora, and other debuffs, and you hit the f out of the target with five marches. That is the only correct way to play this game. So, if you go against that idea, you are not a real good player, making you not so good, ie; amateur.

[@Adammoooooo]

@@68Busdriver right that’s true it may trade better but u send out ur march less often, resources are based on trading in the open field ergo it’s the same. I think boots give more kills and gloves give better trades. Also the defense will do more damage because it trades better but not necessarily dps so resources, trades and damage are all the same thing. Whereas dps is what truly measures damage as trades was already a pro used in the video for why gloves are better.

[@Adammoooooo]

@@pokerchannel6991 alrighty if that’s the only correct way to fight, then being tankier wouldn’t matter as u would get melted by debuffs regardless. Paradoxical paragraph u wrote there bud. I’m more interested in the stats overall as in the formula provided on the screen than some counterintuitive ideology. So based on that, gloves trade better. I still think boots get kills faster as you don’t fight to the death, making it so if you have say 4k less troops than u usually would u would spend more rss to yield more kills. But idk I can see the appeal to gloves more now since most players spend on crystal tech which doesn’t benefit defense. But then again u could argue troop cap multiplies ur attack and focus more on that. Regardless, it doesn’t matter at all but I would say I would rather deal damage and get more kills than take less damage and have better trades, because as I said when u do more damage u reduce enemy troops & their damage making u tankier, just like how when ur tankier u can deal more damage, the same goes for reducing enemy troop cap as it does yours.

[@68Busdriver]

@@Adammoooooo using that logic wouldn’t you just stack all attack and neglect defense and health? Or do you think there is a break even point where one stat outweighs another. Like 1% health is more valuable than 1.2% attack but less valuable than 2% attack?