League's huge anti cheat drama...

[@CHNO-kl9bn]

this would not be as bad if it was not on 24/7 and if riot wasnt hacked multiple times by now

[@fernandogonzalez6759]

yeah, idk why is 24/7 tho? when you aren't playing why is still monitorizing my PC? and if I wanted a chinese spyware I would instal genchin impact

[@sinistressdreams7243]

@@fernandogonzalez6759 You genuinely dont know? Because it makes scripting/hacking way more difficult. If it only starts when playing the game, it will only scan when the game is running and scripter could do anything they want before they launch the game. Which means way more freedom for scripters to do stuff.

[@ImaskarDono]

No, it would be just as bad. If it can hack everything you have, but only 1hr a day, does it make it better?

[@Vinoyl]

@@sinistressdreams7243 You're completely wrong lol stop talking out of your ass. By that logic I can just set up a fresh windows install, go crazy installing a million scripts or hacks and only then install league or valorant. Seems like a pretty easy exploit dont you think?

[@fernandogonzalez6759]

@@sinistressdreams7243 and for that I have to permit a chinese company to have access to my PC 24/7 even when my PC isn't running their game AAAAAAAND when vanguard is a joke? were the valorant pros CHEATED ON FUKING STAGE?

[@trumpwastaken6779]

I'm a Linux user and this really sucks. Riot stated multiple times that they were aware that around 4% of their players ran Linux and even though they did not support it (the project is entirely community driven), they did not mean to shut it down. The vanguard announcement just came out of the blue and the fact that on Mac is not even required (purely out of lazyness of recreating vanguard from scratch to work in unix systems) just adds salt to injury. Needless to say, I'm not going to forfeit my privacy and freedom for a game

[@cloud-wr1hs]

Riot singlehandedly increased the size of Mac users 📈

[@NoAlias_]

Soooo a mac vm it is ?

[@trumpwastaken6779]

@@NoAlias_ Some guys managed to run lol in windows vm when 13.23 patch broke wine with gpu and hw passthrough so it could be, theoretically speaking, possible to run it on a Mac vm. Obviously performances will be terribile though on average PCs

[@wnsjimbo2863]

you can dual boot is not that hard

[@NoAlias_]

I know but not a option for me since the pc needs to run 24/7

[@pingusdingus99]

yeah I'm honestly thankful for riot taking away my ability to play the game, perfect opportunity

[@Eventzz0]

why because ur a scripter?

[@caramelldeus8532]

​@@Eventzz0Linux user probably

[@Veldrusara]

@@Eventzz0 Stick up your butt much? Anyone who uses Linux is borked.

[@nigel5317]

​​@@Eventzz0 Safe yourself your stupid comments. Vanguard is completely incompatible with linux. And also incompatible with a lot of virtualization technologies which are often needed if you do IT stuff and can only be disabled through bios changes and a reboot. Also lets not forget the enormous list of software which gets falsely identified as cheating software by Vanguard, as well as many well-justified privacy concerns because of their always-on approach. Vanguard makes the game simply inaccessible or a hassle to deal with for a lot of users, even independent of their operating system.

[@treebranch6488]

deserved for using linux honestly

[@neesuman3759]

6:11 What Will said about Riot having access to enabling and disabling drivers is very true and has affected me I played Valorant when it came out. For some reason, vanguard was disabling my network adapter one day and I couldn't do anything but to uninstall Vanguard to fix this issue(even simply disabling Vanguard after every boot up did not fix this)

[@Vetaa]

Yikes thats scary

[@gregoryjoiner8468]

Yo I had that exact issue and could never figure out why. My NIC stopped working, but I could still connect via ethernet on the motherboard. The driver was deleted and would not reinstall. Uninstalled Valorant and Vanguard, and it let me get the driver and it started working again.

[@xNemesis_]

Yeah if it mess up with drivers f that

[@hyd3334]

Same issue for me, i tried playing valorant after like a year of quiting cs:go and i couldnt even play, everytime i launched my pc while having vanguard my mouse would barely work or just straight up die, had to delete vanguard and it worked perfectly. Time to quit LoL

[@toxy3580]

Vanguard breaks my PC too. My fan control and temperature monitoring doesn't work.

[@taylesz]

Riot literally had a security breach earlier, and now they want to install a 24/7 Rootkit on your PC. Its like giving your House Keys to any random on the street and letting them know where you live.

[@Alatreon22]

And you probably have already done this with a ton of different anti cheats used in other games without knowing lol

[@gondoravalon7540]

@@Alatreon22 Even if they did, doesn't mean that it's wrong to not want to pile on even more onto the heap.

[@taylesz]

@@Alatreon22 I don't play a single one of those games shown with kernel anti cheat

[@Pinat885]

@@taylesz Doubt, there are a lot of popular anti cheats with kernel access.

[@taylesz]

@Pinat885 okay, didn't know you knew more about my life and activities than I did, sorry!

[@huangGQ]

I can't wait to see the reactions when Riot announces Vanguard will also be in the MMO.

[@zerghunter3545]

Lol it would be so fun to watch

[@dankmemes8254]

Dead on arrival on me dwag Wouldn't be fucking funny if vanguard got triggered in this year LCS

[@Lyricaon]

Easy one: There are so many games on the market I don't need Riots games

[@strawhatJ]

they'll play like everyone else, and will give cope excuses when asked about "but i thought vanguard was too much?"

[@NyppaahClips]

Well, cheat in an MMORPG is quite different, it's generally currency glitches and such, which don't need vanguard to check, tbf.

[@SorasGreenTea]

These guys haven't fixed 5+ year old bugs, are constantly letting new bugs make it to live servers, have been getting hacked, and have already had source code stolen. Now they want us to give kernel level access to their proprietary anti cheat that runs 24/7. If they can't even avoid/fix bugs in their game what's stopping them from having the same issues with their anticheat?

[@thefriendlyfool]

The Problem with Vanguard over something like EAC (Easy Anti-Cheat) is that EAC only is active while the game is running. With Vanguard, it always being on, even when not playing the game, is an issue. Also, if you Disable Vanguard, you have to completely reboot your PC for Vanguard to relaunch and to access LoL. I really think this'll be an issue for a lot of people, given how most people like their privacy and....you know...Riot being hacked last year a few times isn't exactly a vote of confidence for this kind of thing being put into a person's computer, given their own security problems.

[@Eventzz0]

privacy? as if the govt cares about ur porn files.

[@dumbassdude8372]

People doesnt like their privacy. That's why every device has some social media appp. People just love to take the high road in preaching privacy and security

[@EeveeRealSenpai]

Yeah that would be annoying, some people want to cut down on CPU usage while doing other things, not being able to casually turn on and off vanguard without a reboot is gonna be crappy.

[@timercolen1586]

Them being hacked does not equate to vanguard being taken over. That's not really how hacking works. The only way for that to happen would be for multiple people at riot to circumvent the company to target data gathering at its users and they would have to hide it from others in the company. Your data isn't being stored so a hack couldn't steal it.

[@Salmagros]

@@Eventzz0 Personal informations for Ads, Scammers , Hackers and censorship to control what you said and is it in the line with the State. Not to mention all the other security risk since There can be works emails on your computer, Your Bank account info, Your Safety code for your other things.

[@kouriichi]

I love how Riot went from, "hackers and scripters are so rare, its not a problem!" to "We need access to everything in your PC at a level not even your protection does because this is such a big problem". I dunno. Seems kind of extreme? Instead of just building better serverside software to catch hackers/scripters, they'd rather just put a potential ticking timebomb on everyone's PC and alienate large portions who no longer can/want to play it.

[@LeTim013]

You know how many games use Vanguard?

[@dampintellect]

The only game that uses Vanguard currently is Valorant, soon to include League of Legends.

[@Bellicose]

@@LeTim013 There's only one game that uses Vanguard and that's Valorant, cybersecurity experts openly called it a rootkit btw. Idk what you're even trying to imply, but the only thing you did is expose that you're stupid.

[@philipchouliaras5879]

​@@LeTim0132

[@joaoteodororeis2051]

Serverside software cannot deal with modern day scripter and hackers. So much so, that Kernel level anti-cheat has become the norm for a LOT of games. They are just not as open about it as riot it being.

[@pineapplegamer6986]

I personally don’t overly care about the vanguard BUT my friends care a lot about installing vanguard. I only play league with my friends and have lost interest playing solo. This will seriously kill their player base if there are a lot of friend groups that play like mine

[@KrytykPan]

yep, not isolated case

[@timercolen1586]

Most people will probably forget about it in a few month. The fact that valorant is popular with vanguard means most users don't care. It will be like every other riot drama.

[@Myosotis5255]

valorant came with vanguard which is the reason many people including me didnt care about valorant but lol is gonna loose the current playerbase it has valorant cant loose something they never had.@@timercolen1586

[@fistofram5526]

@@timercolen1586 Somewhat, but you're delusional if you think not many people won't care about having a fucking CHINESE company spying on their shit.

[@darwinjackson3560]

no, people in the valorant community still complain about vanguard, some people can't even uninstall it without formatting their pc lmao @@timercolen1586

[@LegioXXI]

I actually think that the TPM 2.0 requirement will alienate even more players than Vanguard itself. One big advantage of LoL was always that basically every toaster could run it, often even with outdated operating systems. The hardcore playerbase will on average have more modern and powerful PCs, but the casual players (which are actually the majority, most don't even play ranked) are more likely to use some old Office PC from the early 2010s. They all either need to upgrade, or stop playing league.

[@sinistressdreams7243]

But then again, security gets more and more important these days. The attacks to compromise a system are getting more sophisticated each day and the damage which can be done is also rising from day to day. Its just the flow of time. We get more and more connected each day which makes us also more vulnerable. To tackle this problem the security has also to get tighter. An old PC´s and especially Software are a weak spot. So yeah, you either go with the flow of time or get left behind. It was always this way and will be. Look at old people with IT Stuff. They are a prime target for criminals since they dont know anything about it and are easy to deceive

[@Alatreon22]

Unfortunately Ryscu didn't really put it into the right context and that's why its a bit misleading. The Windows users that are affected by TMP 2.0 are ONLY Windows 11 users and to install Windows 11 you do need TMP 2.0 anyway. Windows 10 users are NOT affected by this as of now. So even with your 2010 office PC you should in theory be able to run League as good as before.

[@FMCoding]

I would love to continue playing League but I literally wouldn't be able to since my Mainboard (which is only 6 years old) doesn't support TPM 2.0 and Secure Boot.... Had the same issue with Valorant already, I would love to play the game but I'm just not able to. Same with my Girlfriend, she has a gaming laptop and its not compatible... One of my friends would be able to play Valorant, but he just doesn't want to go into his Bios and change one setting. As soon as you are required to do something "complicated" other than just creating an Account and installing the game, many of my friends just dump the game. The same will happen with league, he wont continue playing the game after the Anticheat will be implemented, same with me.

[@FMCoding]

@@Alatreon22 No that is wrong. I am on Windows 10 and I am required to have TPM 2.0 enabled. I have seen several other people on Windows 10 complaining about the same issue. It seems like that depending on your System, if something looks suspicious somehow or your Account gets flagged, you are also required to enable TPM 2.0 on Windows 10 too and they already announced that TPM 2.0 will also be a requirement on Windows 10 within the next few months.

[@Alatreon22]

@@FMCoding Can you link or tell me where they said it will become a requirement? TMP 2.0 is certainly not a requirement right now, unless you may be using a very old version of Windows 10 that is so old not even Microsoft supports it anymore. Then they probably also put you under TMP 2.0 requirement but that's on you in this case. If that's not the case, the only thing you actually had to do was disable "Virtualization-based security" and you were good to go which is something that can be done within Windows in a few seconds. I can still play Valorant just fine and don't have TMP 2.0 activated, my motherboard doesn't even support it.

[@lyanruss4103]

There's also another issue that you probably don't know is that vanguard also messes up your pc performance, even when you are not playing, just when you use your pc on a regular basis, the vanguard eats everything up, i had a new pc just 3 months and when i played valorant, i noticed my pc was running slowly, and it turns out it was the vanguard's fault, even making my pc froze into bluescreen, so when hearing they are gonna force this app into league, i just immediately uninstalled it, because i play LoL casually and have fun not deter my PC for the sake of it.

[@BygoneHope]

I don’t trust riot enough for this…

[@andrew_h6]

Then you shouldn’t have ever installed League in the first place. Computer safety 101 is to never download anything from a source you don’t trust. Riot, if they held malicious intent, could’ve bricked your PC long before they even thought about mandating Vanguard.

[@paulojose7568]

@@andrew_h6 Bruh don't be lazy and actually use your head. If they want to steal data they won't act "out loud". They wouldn't brick your pc. They would be there. 24/7. in the background. Having access to ANYTHING. While also self declaring as just for your safety. This is what someone who wants your data would do, not "brick your system" lol. Now if they actually want to do that, we CAN'T know

[@BygoneHope]

Kernel level programs work completely differently than base level software. It gives the program the highest credentials. It could literally pull all info from your machine. Especially if it runs 24/7. And it’s not trusting them not to do something. It’s trusting them to prevent someone else from doing it

[@andrew_h6]

@@paulojose7568 If you don’t trust Riot with data then you shouldn’t install or use any of their services. Just because this one has higher privilege doesn’t mean that it is significantly riskier. A program does not need kernel-level access to do the things you fear Vanguard will do. You’re buying into fearmongering

[@andrew_h6]

@@BygoneHope I know that kernel level programs are given 0th level access. But that doesn’t change the fact that it’s not inherently more dangerous than 1st-3rd level access. Cybersecurity for a consumer is about trust, and if you do not trust a company (which is fine), you shouldn’t install any of their services. Like I said, it doesn’t take 0th level access to get your information or brick your pc.

[@edgelordtv]

So, my biggest issue with Vanguard is not Riot doing dodgy shit, because monetarily if they get caught, they'll lose more than they'll gain (and some serious arrest warrants on all of the people working there) but because if any exploit is found in a 24/7 running kernel rootkit, essentially any hacker that pushes a 0-day can affect millions of players and infect them. The probably is super low, but I don't want to risk it. At least other games have it run while they are running, this is a time ticking bomb.

[@nixsnowsong6732]

This is by far the most sensible response I've seen from the playerbase. Thank you for critically thinking. It's low-risk but it isn't no-risk. And in the small case a breach happens it would be devastating.

[@edgelordtv]

@@nixsnowsong6732 yeah, I used to have Vanguard when I played Valorant at launch, I haven't considered it backed in the day and wasn't so conscious about it. After the breach however, I'm not so sure about it. The fact that their solution was to drop in Vanguard on League, when a lot of its community plays on hardware which does not support TPM 2.0 as a quick way to fix the scripter problem that has been on the rise, says something about how willing they are to keep their original user base. Whatever happens, it's been a good journey, it's time to move on from this game.

[@Sinzari]

A lot of people think this, but the reality is that Vanguard can't be exploited to hack a computer by itself, it's not possible. What it CAN do if an exploit or vulnerability is found, is allow a virus to gain more access to your computer than it would've otherwise had, but you would have to have downloaded the virus yourself in the first place.

[@edgelordtv]

@@Sinzari oh yeah, definitely. It's just that sometimes you wouldn't know that it was malicious until too late. Either that or do a double exploit.

[@lv4715]

Yeah, Riot wouldn't completely destroy your computer themselves, its not worth it.

[@pinkpuff8562]

Ah yes. I feel could confident in letting a faceless company gain completely access to my files, especially after their hack last year. Such a confidence booster.

[@cloud-wr1hs]

I sure hope nothing happens this early 2024 💀

[@Sinzari]

faceless?

[@sugar4936]

ur using YT bud

[@bebeyakkk]

​@@Sinzari Tencent

[@CC-INV]

@@sugar4936 youtube doesn't have kernel access, can read all my files, and is running 24/7 regardless of whether I am using the app.

[@petulikan1]

The fact that Riot Games is going to make us use a Vanguard anticheat to play League while also keeping in the League client a memory leak is quite concerning.

[@cloud-wr1hs]

"Fair play is vital to any competitive pastime, and League is no exception. While we've always worked to stay ahead of scripters, bots, and bot-leveled accounts, this became particularly challenging after the security breach in early 2023." -Riot Games I sure hope nothing happens in early 2024 💀

[@NoAlias_]

I mean if league and the client were rock solid i wouldnt have such a trust issue with a kernel software from the same company

[@Shirosaki_Ichigo]

​@@NoAlias_they already have a shit track record lmao getting all their data leaked, valorant still having so many hackers wtf is the point of us even installing this 24/7 rootkit malware vanguard

[@VenerabIe]

I'm sad to go, but I think this will be my nail-in-the-coffin for League. 9 years and a run to Grandmaster makes for some good memories. Only way I see myself coming back to this game is if I eventually upgrade my PC and use my old one strictly as a League machine, but even then, I worry that a vulnerability that grants access to your PC has the potential to grant access to your network devices as well... and even if not, it's sort of ridiculous to have a PC just for League. Guess this is it. I'll miss this game.

[@Alatreon22]

So you now quit gaming entirely since basically every concern you mentioned here can already happen with ANY anti cheat that runs on kernel level and those are the ones used in the far majority of online games :D

[@VenerabIe]

@@Alatreon22 Presumptuous. I play pretty much exclusively League. Anything else I play is offline, or, on the rare occasion I play Minecraft with the boys, doesn't require anticheat. Not everyone plays a bunch of triple A games.

[@Alatreon22]

@@VenerabIe Then you are one of the few that may not have those kind of anti cheats already installed but this is more the exception and not the norm.

[@Whietie]

​@@Alatreon22i don't have any of these anticheats too. I'm going to quit league if they will require Vanguard for it.

[@aquiledelrosa]

@@Alatreon22 i just play LOL / LOR and minecraft too

[@Kittytravel]

Know what would also do away with scripters? Server side anticheat. The same method with AI but on server side that monitors your play style so it can tell when you begin acting abnormally. This has already been used in games like Runescape to detect account sharing, bot accounts, and people selling runescape accounts. And its pretty effecting over there without being this invasive.

[@leslyschafer1879]

Selling accounts and scripting is a completely different thing. You know what other game has their server side ai anti-cheat? CS:GO That worked out well for them...

[@testtest-qr6sx]

@@leslyschafer1879 fortnite has never had cheater drama in history of its platform

[@Sinzari]

Runescape is infinitely simpler of a game than League of Legends. Server side anticheat is logistically impossible in League of Legends.

[@suerte1392]

@@Sinzari But they could detect when a botting account is sold and it starts winning, hitting more skill shoots etc... among other things.

[@VitandusEBK]

@@suerte1392not a very well thought out, effective, nor realistic approach.

[@heyjustchillin]

Dear Riot, Since cheating is such a big scandal in competitive that you are willing to out a chunk of the player base, how about you just make vanguard a requirement for competitive only? Sweats get their favorite excuse for losing taken away and the 90% of the player base that doesn't play ranked doesn't have to download your Chinese malware.

[@虎瀬野]

agreed ,, idont even play ranked

[@MlaskiMlask]

That would be the best compromise in my opinion.

[@ImaskarDono]

Could be even required for Emerald+

[@natanstunes]

its not about competitive, its about scripters in high elo in general

[@cloud-wr1hs]

Not to mention League's source code also got hacked last year??? Goodluck having people trust this.

[@sebastian.c7222]

My biggest gripe with Vanguard is that it made my pc act weird, then I uninstalled Valorant and Vanguard and it went back to normal

[@demonkingrigaldo-2456]

Yeah, that's gonna be my issue too. Vanguard is kinda resource hungry and this also effects performance when you quit league and play other games. I'm probably just uninstalling league tbh

[@ATomicAstronaut]

no you won't, you'll be back@@demonkingrigaldo-2456

[@alvemaster]

You can close Vanguard completely through the task manager. This forces you to restart your PC whenever you want to play league, but it is certainly possible to not be affected by Vanguard. So it won't eat your resources, and most likely won't cause problems for your PC, especially while closed.

[@Shuyin128MK4]

Please go into more detail, too many people are ignoring this kind of information.

[@WOAHdatsalowprce]

Vanguard literally fucking BRICKED my PC. BRICKED. I says. I'm scared to install this.

[@ImaskarDono]

Thank you for covering this issue. One important thing missing is the difference between what Vanguard promises to do (trust me, bros) versus what it will have the ability to do. The access is much more massive than anything else. You severely underestimated it in this video. Long version: Level 1. If your system is compromised by a virus, it is still restricted, it can access shared and current user's files, do internet calls. Basically calln leak photos of your personal documents or encrypt them for ransom. Level 2: If a virus also uses a privilege escalation, it would be able to do it for all users, gp to encrypted and protected folders (vaults, other users). It can now also access your devices like camera and keyboard (reading your passwords and credit vard data as you type). It can also read memory of userspace (inkl admin) processes (so, get your saved passwords, current credentials) Level 3. If a virus can additionally compromise your OS, it can brick your hardware and can access the hardware more sneakily (like without camera lamp turning on). And it now has access to driver memory (so can leak your hardware authentication keys). So Vanguard immediately starts at level 3. And despite it promises to not touch anything, it will have access to do all of it. Now imagine if either Tencent needing something from you, or hackers hacking it like this year.

[@koutsioj4762]

yeah I am really hesitating to download this shit. I think Riot's best course of action would be an anti-cheat that is NOT kernel level. Even if it's not as a effective I imagine it will still help a lot and it would be much more easily accepted from us users.

[@vyyr]

We will totally not use your computer in a chinese goverment funded botnet. We promise teehee. Meanwhile half of "smart" home appliences having obscene ammount of network traffic for no reason.

[@Sinzari]

Hackers hacking it wouldn't be able to affect anything though, unless they manage to change the code in Riot's own repos and then Riot ships it without noticing the change at all, which is nigh impossible.

[@justinjakeashton]

They've launched patches without properly implementing balance changes before. You think they won't fuck this up too?@@Sinzari

[@colenayson]

I don't get it, literally nobody cares about your guys' lives lmao

[@Jakos01]

Like others have mentioned the big reason I hate Vanguard is the fact that it’s running 100% of the time since system boot, I understand the need for an anti cheat, I really do, I just think companies need to look at alternatives rather than installing malware on everyone’s computer. Look at Genshin Impact, their anti cheat driver was used by malicious actors to disable antivirus and launch payloads to people’s computer, and the game didn’t even need to be installed for this shit to happen. My only saving grace is that if I’m really wanting to play league, I have my old computer which is only 4.5 years old to do this exact thing, all this computer has installed is League, Steam and a web browser, so I can isolate Vanguard as much as possible. To all those people saying, “the government already has access to all your files” or “you already use social media get over it “, you’re an idiot and part of the problem, leave your front door wide open from now on and never lock anything since you have nothing to hide.

[@tine1012]

There is no alternative. Without kernel level anti-cheat there is no preventing people from cheating. Hackers are willing to go invasive levels, so anti-cheat has to as well. Your choice is either welcoming cheaters in the game, or welcoming kernel level anti-cheat. Most games have kernel level anti-cheat, easy anti-cheat does as well. So there is no difference there. The only one being that Vanguard runs from boot, but you can just turn it off after you booted your PC if you do not intend on playing league.

[@DJ-fb9cf]

@@tine1012 Use a different kind of anti-cheat so it's not running 24/7? Only require vanguard for Emerald or higher? Just make the tryhards deal with it since they want a challenge anyway?

[@ehqwk]

⁠@@DJ-fb9cf 1. You can disable the anticheat when you don't plan to play and just restart your PC when you do. 2. Anticheats that only run after the game starts are ineffective, Easy Anti Cheat does this and its easily bypassed even as a Kernel anticheat. 3. Even if the Anticheat is only active in ranked you'd still need to download it, which practically is no different from how people like you complain now.

[@tine1012]

@@DJ-fb9cf That allows anyone willing to cheat still to cheat. And falls into the category of welcoming cheating into the games. That's an option, but at least acknowledge that is the choice you are making.

[@wnsjimbo2863]

there is no problem , you can CLOSE vanguard after you close the game

[@Goopy731]

The reasons why this is a problem: Riot's been hacked several times before by now. The shady corpo as you've said. Vanguard having firsthand accounts of bricking a PC and vast amounts of evidence of destroying hardware.

[@RassionellMaddman]

hacked isn't the issue, they're a CCP shill company, Tencent is CCP enslaved.

[@Shuyin128MK4]

You just know that Riot is going to push the numbers of people leaving the game into the number of hackers to make the impact of forcing Vanguard onto the playerbase not seem nearly as bad as it will be. "We have seen a drastic drop off in scripting and bot accounts" meanwhile, only like maybe 5-10% of the number of "scripting and bot" accounts they'll statistically show will actually be scripting and bot accounts, with the other 90-95% being players that left not to deal with Vanguard bs.

[@gondoravalon7540]

IMO if they do that, we need to call them out on their data fudging, and lying.

[@krila3978]

​@gondoravalon7540 How? By posting on the insular, Riot controlled Reddit? Forums and boards are gone and most of the playerbase is on that reddit or unreachable entirely. They are already more or less autobanning any post with "vanguard" in the title. No, this is simply a nail in the coffin for some. The riot playerbase is startlingly unsympathetic anyway.

[@colenayson]

Have you ever seen how vanguard actually dropped cheaters? Also they don't care about your porn. Go upgrade your pc as well

[@swe872]

@@colenayson Why are you defending the multimillion dollar company, the fact google and social media already have your data doesnt makes any better Tencent wants to install a kernel level threat in your computer for a problem mostly only in high elo; which even if you dont care about your privacy and the fact they get hacked like twice a week, performance problems shoud be a concern, they will kill casual players forcing them to upgrade when league points of sell is literally the ability to be run easily, vanguard isnt even a good anticheat at all, the numbers they provide are heavily sided to support their claims (you clearly not know how statistics work) and causes a lot and i mean A LOT of problems since its so poorly developed, causing driver or OS malfunction even on high spec machines. Vanguard is just so bad and takes resources for no reason by running 100% on the background, not mentioning ofc all the false flags if you are into modding games like gta V in which vanguard for some reason would detect it as a cheat; and guess what? "just open a ticket bro", most of the time they just give bot generated answers or just tell you to fuck off for no reason.

[@bananasaur5209]

@@colenayson League is designed to be played on a potato. It is specifically designed so anyone of any $$$ can play. Well...not anymore.

[@darkfire1408]

Let's assume that Vanguard functions as advertised. Let's also assume that Riot's security is top notch. Then let's further assume that Tencent has the user's best interests at heart and would never consider spying on them or selling their data to advertisers. Lastly, let's assume that the Chinese Communist Party has no interest in compelling Tencent to acquire user data from abroad. Asuming all of this to be true, it's still an invasive and resource intensive vulnerability for your PC, and cheaters will still find a way around Vanguard.

[@prideless2122]

vanguard already is bypassed xd and the updates do not keep up with the cheaters at all. common riot games coding moment

[@cephalonbob15]

Umm yes, here comes the racism and whataboutism, completely ignoring the USA being the biggest terrorist state in human history.

[@drjamaymay405]

​@@prideless2122that's how anti-cheat works, It's always behind.

[@SY4Artz]

By Chinese Law it is mandatory to copy and redirect every bit of data they have to the Chinese Communist Party. Tencent and Riot have PAID PARTY OFFICIALS in their own company building which only job is it to overview the data stream to the communist party.... If ever a war between China and any US Ally would occur, these are the PC's which will get hacked first...

[@stephen7587]

I wonder just how many people Riot thinks will leave because of this vs how many actually will. I know a ton of people that didn't play Valorant specifically because of this vanguard crap and that's something that just doesn't show up in statistics. Forcing it into League is foolish and short sighted.

[@yorik1006]

They'll get more money from selling user data than they'll lose by losing 50% of their playerbase, worth it, can't you see?

[@drjamaymay405]

Most people don't care. Even less care enough to complain about online. There is no way riot would do this if it risked even 1/5 of their player base.

[@pensato348]

I've always looked at Riot Vanguard being on a system as a sign that the game is meant more for professional play than casual play. (Who would risk installing a Kernal-level piece of software who doesn't absolutely need to?), so I think this season, despite all the cool changes to items and the map... I'll probably keep watching LoL Esports, but stop playing League myself.

[@koutsioj4762]

Many people will risk installing it, I don't think most people realise and care about the potential danger. I just hope Riot will change their minds about using vanguard if people don't want to install it. If they don't then I guess league is over for me too. Honestly, it makes me a little sad but it'd probably be for the best.

[@SleepyStreak]

"Who would install kernel level". Uh, every gamer on the planet? Do you realize how many games run kernel anticheat? Like 90% of online games, and a solid number of single player games if they have any level of online play. Such as Elden Ring or Doom. If you don't want to install kernel-level anticheat, you might as well quit playing video games entirely.

[@JDReC100]

@@SleepyStreak this kernal anti cheat is on 24/7. thats concerning for lowend computers with limited resources. also: "you might as well quit playing video games entirely." honey please, not every (multiplayer) game has or needs anticheat. the people that don't like games with anticheat will just go play games that don't have it. It might be harder with those who are super competitive, but its not impossible.

[@SleepyStreak]

@@JDReC100 All kernel anticheats run 24/7 that's the purpose of them. And no, you can't avoid it. Not every multi-player game has it, but most do. And even single player games that have online play attached, use it. Ex: Doom, Assassins Creed, Elden Ring.

[@salj.5459]

@@SleepyStreakNewsflash, not every gamer has played games that have kernel level anticheat. The only games I've ever downloaded with it are CSGO and Paladins, and I almost never play those games and the anticheat only works while the game is running. So I don't have to worry about it running 24/7 in the background.

[@reinhartdrial8060]

The problem is that its on all the time. Stay in your lane Riot, you dont deserve more access to my files than the government.

[@Eventzz0]

ur files arent important the govt doesnt care nerd.

[@fehyth3400]

soo... you're okay if its the government with all your online data?

[@paradoxcloud4939]

You can actually disable vanguard so it won't start at startup, but another problem came up where you need to restart your pc if you want to play League, honestly if vanguard only run when the game starts like any other anti cheat, it won't be this problematic

[@timercolen1586]

I mean if it was off then cheaters would just use a script before turning it on. It sucks that they have this access but it's the only surefire way to block cheaters. If we had a good government they could pass a law making it safer for us though but the US is trash when it comes to tech law

[@rubefeo]

at this point it's about WHICH government has access

[@gemstone_addict]

The worst part of Vanguard for me was only covered in that huge wall'o'text message from Will. Vanguard fucking sucks at being hard/software friendly, I cannot count how many times did I encounter BSOD or drivers dying due to the presence of this goddamn malware. It was the N1 reason why I gave up on Valorant

[@sudowill]

Yeah Vanguard sucks also, hello it is me!

[@antonioreconquistador]

Yup, people complained about the legacy client when it did something silly like not update. This is a whole other ballgame

[@Some-Rage-Inducing-Provocateur]

@@sinistressdreams7243 Keep being a shill.

[@Some-Rage-Inducing-Provocateur]

@@sinistressdreams7243 Cope and seethe, sister.

[@Alatreon22]

You made a ticket at Riot Support uploading everything they ask for?

[@AdsAreRuiningEverything]

I’d rather play against a scripter (which I’ve still never seen ingame) than being forced to install this shit

[@nicronomici4658]

Ive seen just one and i played for 1 year

[@KatherynneF]

@@nicronomici4658 I've seen one playing for 5. All he did was ping wards for the 5G.

[@iluvatardis8804]

I've played against a Sion that could move his Q while charging, and could steer his R on a dime. It was pretty awful.

[@Brsrk9]

in 8 years of occasional gaming i noticed like 6, the higher i climbed the more frequent they got

[@TheDeathlyG]

​@@iluvatardis8804 I feel like any general game review for this sort of thing would get rid of cheaters after a game or two. I've played since season 2 and I've only seen 1 person explicitly hacking. On the scale of issues, their matchmaking and MMR systems impact me virtually every game, as opposed to 1 in ~4,000 games for cheating.

[@Rancidius56]

See ya league. Thanks for the final push to not play.

[@Tsino69]

Arena brought me back for a while but these dubious directions from RIOT have convinced me to uninstall again.

[@cloud-wr1hs]

Riot do be planning something dubious 🔥🔥

[@SadlyEmbers]

bye bye

[@randomuser8627]

I've said this a few times but im gonna voice my voice again. I'm uncomfortable with riot having this level of anticheat since they lack competence of making stuff work and if it will be like anything ingame the chance of breaking the system is medium to high or least that is what it feels like

[@cloud-wr1hs]

"Fair play is vital to any competitive pastime, and League is no exception. While we've always worked to stay ahead of scripters, bots, and bot-leveled accounts, this became particularly challenging after the security breach in early 2023." Gee I wonder what will happen in early 2024 💀.

[@SadlyEmbers]

I mean your just wrong. Valorant has substantially less cheaters than CSGO currently does so much so that even the top content creators and pro players will agree with this sentiment. Vanguard is a GODSEND when it comes to anticheats. If you are this insecure about your files then quit league lol

[@colenayson]

and I am uncomfortable having cheaters ruin the game. You should prob play something else man. They don't care about your porn

[@prideless2122]

so glad vanguard never damaged hardware... ah wait@@SadlyEmbers

[@reformed_attempt_1]

​@@colenaysonimagine thinking people care about privacy because of porn 😂

[@draphking]

Custom skin community will also be in shambles unless Riot whitelists the programs. They’ve basically destroyed their entire modding community with this

[@cloud-wr1hs]

They gave up because if custom skins found a way to bypass Vanguard, so do the hackers. They said that they can't promise anything regarding custom skins. With that said custom skins are out of the question for who knows how long.

[@salj.5459]

They never cared about the modding community, they've always been against League mods

[@adamgemesi]

Riot digging its own grave is a sign that nature is indeed healing.

[@MidnightDarkness666]

My partner is a computer programmer. While watching the season 2024 vid that they announced Vanguard on, she was listening along in the background. As soon as "Kernel level" came up she went "Oh hell no!". The more we dug around at what others had been experiencing such as bricking PCs, disabling drives, overclocking, random crashes and one user that got banned for mods they had for a completely unrelated game (the false positives Will mentioned), not to mention Tencent is a sketchy as fuck Chinese state megacorp, we decided, you know what? No! Fuck off with your hackery, we aren't okay with this. My wife ordered me a second hand Mac off eBay and that is what I'll be playing League on from now on. If anyone has around £150 spare and isn't okay with this but still wants to play League, I highly recommend following my example.

[@11wildy63]

But this makes the game more expensive than it is worth honestly. I would only consider this once I buy a new laptop and then factory reset my old one to then play on it. And at this point I'm not even sur eif that will be safe with all the negative messages.

[@oKazaryo]

How does a Mac help? They just don’t give riot Kernal access?

[@JDReC100]

@@oKazaryo correct. atleast, for now.

[@MidnightDarkness666]

@@oKazaryo Yep, RIOT, or anyone for that matter can't put anything Kernel level on MACs

[@bluemio7349]

Just have to thank Riot for pushing me to finally quit League and sell my account. I'll have a great three week trip with the money I'll get from the sale. 15 years of League and it's finally over.

[@gladiatorgamer9502]

U spend how much money in league?

[@firestar5808]

How much does bro think he’s going to get 😭

[@dankmemes8254]

Blud thinks he has pax TF skin

[@MangaGamified]

KZbin DMA card/hardware cheats kernel was the reason a new item was selling.

[@gengar618]

@@dankmemes8254 I have PAX Jax & TF and this change is making me quit league 🤣

[@saw141]

I've never seen a confirmed cheater in any of my games aside from Coop vs. Ai bots in over 10 years of playing League. I can not imagine cheating is a big enough problem where this is necessary. I absolutely do not trust Tencent with this software. I really hate it but if they go through with this but I'm going to have to quit.

[@MangaGamified]

Nah nope it's basically saying "It's your PC anyway"; their assurance of nothing happens is as sure as anyone giving insurance / collateral . How about riot giving insurance / collateral no questions asked if it's so safe then? If they can't even give a cent of insurance, that's how trust worthy their software is. *Edit:* For all unbelievers: I ain't a lawyer, pretty sure ToS was just an outlier, if not the likes like Facebook & Tesla shouldn't be in court right? City laws still triumphs like that right to repair against apple. Laws are always an afterthought of malice a.k.a crimes. ToS could only buy them so much time. I mean you can't just write away your basic rights. Riot was already not too good when CCP didn't passed a law requiring CCP governed companies to cooperate with their spying, what's more now? In any case I already uninstalled League and have other hobbies like 3D modelling and Vtubing, I was already not playing that much and only play RGM from time to time and reminisce old memories , not playing League is not the end of the world. The problem was most people think, players who had quit was not on the borderline of quitting already. And they think everyone has an addiction and were just bluffing. They think they are some kind of psychologist playing 5D chess against everyone.

[@leslyschafer1879]

Well, you've seen how many games use kernel lvl ac... They need it to match cheat devs.

[@MangaGamified]

@@leslyschafer1879 That was not my intention, I mean who uses Vanguard? only riot. Companies like Easy Anti-Cheat still has competitors, so they really have to be strict and have integrity, or else Clients would sue them and they'll find other AC companies. Not to mention their parent company is in CCP land which passed a literal law requiring companies to cooperate in their spying(or whatever) campaign. Maybe I should had mentioned that in the first place right?

[@Pigtigo]

Pretty sure when u accept tos of Vanguard u agree that Riot's wont be liable for any damages.

[@MangaGamified]

@@Pigtigo Not too sure, I ain't a lawyer, pretty sure ToS was just an outlier, if not the likes like Facebook & Tesla shouldn't be in court right? City laws still triumphs like that right to repair against apple. Laws are always an afterthought of malice a.k.a crimes. ToS could only buy them so much time. I mean you can't just write away your basic rights. Riot was already not too good when CCP didn't passed a law requiring CCP governed companies to cooperate with their spying, what's more now? In any case I already uninstalled League and have other hobbies like 3D modelling and Vtubing, I was already not playing that much and only play RGM from time to time and reminisce old memories , not playing League is not the end of the world. The problem was most people think, players who had quit was not on the borderline of quitting already. And they think everyone has an addiction and were just bluffing. They think they are some kind of psychologist playing 5D chess against everyone.

[@kunjunction1]

you forgot the part where it also scans files in the background and reports those names back

[@SK-do5rv]

The subreddit is also deleting any posts related to vanguard

[@PillarofWind]

Shit no way 😢

[@vyyr]

league subreddit has been unironicly paid off by riot for years. There is a Richard Lewis article about it.

[@N_May1]

Kernal clamped software thats attached like a parasite is soo scummy. 😂

[@Xazamas]

From what I heard, the Genshin Impact ransomware thing was MUCH worse. This video left out the part that the ransomware worked even if you NEVER INSTALLED GENSHIN. Their anti-cheat needed to be approved by Microsoft to gain kernel access. Someone was able to forge the certification and apply it to their ransomware. Essentially Microsoft agreed to "install doggy door to their vault" when MiHoYo asked, and bad actors were able to use it as an attack vector.

[@Silver2909]

If vanguard wasn't up 24/7 and worked like EAC, I wouldn't mind, but I had troubles when I played Valorant, like my computer acting weird, booting in 3 minutes instead of 10 seconds. Vanguard is a big no for me. And the worst part is, I don't even play League anymore, I just want to play TFT on PC because it's much more comfortable on desktop than on mobile.

[@SleepyStreak]

It works exactly like EAC. It's on your computer when you startup, collecting data to ensure you're not using cheats, and connects to the servers when the game is open to send that data.

[@Silver2909]

@@SleepyStreak EAC only launches when you launch the game.

[@SleepyStreak]

@@Silver2909 It does, same as Vanguard. If you think it doesn't, you're misguided. Riot is just more open about it.

[@Silver2909]

@@SleepyStreak it doesn't. A simple look to your task manager is enough to realize it.

[@SleepyStreak]

@@Silver2909 Vanguard doesn't show up on task manager either unless you have the tray shortcut open.... are you dumb?

[@KitsonHeart]

Aaayyy you went from your 1 supporter on Patreon to 16, congrats! :D And yeah it being on 24/7 is really not a good thing, besides hogging resources if your system can't handle it properly it is also dumb that you have to modify your bios just to use some games that use vanguard

[@joaoteodororeis2051]

Most people dont have to mod their bios from what I've heard. This issue occured mostly on windows 11.

[@twizzleddoggo]

For me personally and many other people, vanguard loves to simply take up 100% of my CPU even if i havent touched it in weeks. Had to quit valorant for that reason, probably league too now

[@solidale21]

The biggest problem with Vanguard is that Riot is owned by Tencent. I don't trust Tencent at all.

[@LeTim013]

My man, if you don't want your data to be stolen do these 2 things, 1 never use technology 2 they already have acces to all Ur shit BC U used technology.

[@MangaGamified]

True many may disagree but I believe they too believe in it cause they won't even give a cent of insurance / collateral xD They would never lose money if it will never happen right?

[@dissidius13]

ppl ignore the fuck that Tencent is a CCP company at this point. Ain't no way I'm giving my privacy to CCP.

[@strawhatJ]

@@MangaGamified lil bro is asking for insurance / collateral for playing a video game 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@MangaGamified]

@@strawhatJ ad hominem really? is that the best you can debate? Your name perfectly suits you. Do you even know what we're talking about kid? StrawhatJ another onepiece weeb with the anime being milked for all eternity.

[@antonioreconquistador]

SkinSpotlights: im not giving my money to xi jhin ping for a chroma when all of jhin's skins are 1350+ Riot: -100,000,000 social credit

[@randomaccount559]

Bro, you do realize that he is affiliated with them right? He is a content creator and he is in contact with riot with when he can release skin videos and early champion gameplay videos.

[@andrelehto152]

I had 14 good years of playing League. Sad to see it come to an end...

[@thestoebz]

Waaahh

[@strawhatJ]

damn, thats a significant portion of your life wasted on a video game brother. Looks like riot did you a favor

[@Koalogy]

⁠@@strawhatJHe said “good years”. If the years were good in his opinion then it was objectively not a waste. I take it you like to waste your life by trolling comment sections? Yikes.

[@AIONBERSERKER]

Not wasted if he enjoyed them. @@strawhatJ

[@gondoravalon7540]

@@strawhatJ > *wasted* Someone's time recreating isn't "wasted" just becaue you have different standards than them. 🙄

[@NotHim113]

Any reasonable person will see this is a ticking time bomb. Has Riot been hacked before? Yes. Has a kernel level anti-cheat do shady stuff in the background happend before? Yes. Is riot connected to a shady entity? Yes

[@sonvay1006]

If anyone wonder, account leveling to lvl 30 can still work, you just need to pick Yuumi, setup a small macro, that constantly presses W on your ally, and maybe use your E ability sometimes too. There's not too much risk for ban, since you are using the same program that controls your mouse (Razer Synapse or Logitech's G-HUB or etc.), it can't really be detected as a cheat software.

[@Yatolc]

actually this brings up another problem with Vanguard because some mouse and keyboard software due end being flagged with some valorant getting banned for using these software.

[@ehqwk]

Yeah instead of being banned for cheating you're just gonna get banned for Botting. Also you can't set up something this advanced like auto targeting your ally and stuff in those programs.

[@wnsjimbo2863]

you will get 100% ban if you do that , you will end up 0/2000

[@jimmyjinx01]

@@ehqwk you easily could set up a script to auto target an ally.

[@ariathgames6068]

Yuu​mi being the thing that bypasses all this would be ironic

[@oui7171]

Man I hope we can get a succesful boycott for once but with the league brainrot it's obviously not happening

[@dumbassdude8372]

Youre mad that you cant play a game and you are calling us "brainrot"?

[@SK-do5rv]

Name checks out

[@joaoteodororeis2051]

Look dude, we are not gonna boycott vanguard. The reason? There is no other choice. This game has never been so full of bots and scripters. At the higher levels of play this is really unhealthy. Players want competitive integrity.

[@dankmemes8254]

​@@dumbassdude8372yes

[@oui7171]

The issue is not having an anti cheat, it's having a kernel level anti cheat that runs constantly no matter what, especially when the company has had hacking issues lately

[@mllhild]

The problem is having it run permanently on your pc, because that can mess with other programs as well. There really is no reason for that.

[@FMCoding]

it's not that people quit because of vanguard, but that vanguard forces us to quit. I would love to continue playing League but I literally wouldn't be able to since my Mainboard (which is only 6 years old) doesn't support TPM 2.0 and Secure Boot.... Had the same issue with Valorant already, I would love to play the game but I'm just not able to. Same with my Girlfriend, she has a gaming laptop and its not compatible...

[@ConZedtration]

Think vanguard is gonna hurt league way harder than without it

[@Bashaka104]

how my man

[@fistofram5526]

@@Bashaka104If you watch the video instead of being dumb you'd understand.

[@sahpphireh]

@@fistofram5526 weird to see riot refusing everyone's money lmao

[@Arigatowo]

All I got from the video is that it's a good thing and that people are way too whiny for what it actually is@@fistofram5526 . The problems that do exist, exist for the big minority, in which case its a skill issue.

[@feranks3211]

​@@Bashaka104 many people will stop playing and it appears for good reasons

[@KesslerCOIL]

yeah... I had far too many issues with vanguard causing some applications to not run correctly. Like I might play another online game and it'd attack the anti-cheat for that game, stopping me from playing it until I force close Vanguard, or sometimes it just sees other games as being cheating software(Star Rail has been repeatedly flagged by vanguard for me) or even sometimes it's disabled the driver for my wifi adapter... So yeah, when it's in? I'm out.

[@Dws974]

gonna quit the moment that malware is on... i stopped playing valorant because of vanguard, it acts as a malware if break your apps and pc like a malware it smells like a malware this is freakin dogshit ...just no never again...

[@hiuwo]

So do i rather have anti cheat so to play the game with the hopes to eliminate bots and cheaters at the cost of exposing myself to a guaranteed history of ransomwares, pc slowing down, driver problems and privacy issues that can really affect my personal and work documents in real life; or play a game with some cheaters that is after all for me just a game? bye bye league

[@tnpcook]

"can't communicate with the outside world unless you run the game" is absolutely meaningless. As if it can't buffer data and then send it when you do.

[@gondoravalon7540]

If the driver is running 24/7, doesn't that mean it absolutely can do shit behind the scenes without the average person knowing?

[@vyyr]

@@gondoravalon7540 yes. it gives them FULL access to your computer, and by full I mean full they can fry every piece of hardware in your case.

[@sb18wlc]

I absolutely hate this, it kept me away from playing valorant and now if this is added on league I'll quit riot games for good. I don't want to restart my PC every single time I have to do something else that vanguard wants to block for literal no reason.

[@ogio1601]

You forgot 2 very big con you shoudl've mentioned: It's made by Riot. Riot already had security breach last year.

[@colenayson]

woah man crazy, there are people that are better out there at coding, who would've thought? And they don't care about your porn dw

[@Bellicose]

Like majority of the player base, I have played League for decades, from when I was in school to now a working adult with my own family. I'm not going through all the hassle for a game that is already a waste of time unless I'm playing with my buddies. Solving the cheater and hacker issue with Vanguard is the same as giving your house permanent access to police just because there are thieves in the neighborhood. Majority of League players are working adults, Riot ain't fooling anyone with their Vanguard explanation especially when there at IT folks playing the game. Anyone with basic knowledge in IT knows how much control you're giving to any software with kernel mode access. Ain't nobody got time to build a burner computer with only League installed. It's a bitter sweet moment for me since it's been majority of me and my friends' gaming lives, from Team Ranked to Ranked Flex, but honestly we'll stop caring in a week or 2 after quitting once we find a game we can play together as 5 again. Gfys Riot

[@thatfrog4104]

"We've tried to be very careful with the security of the driver. We've had multiple external security research teams review it for flaws (we don't want to accidentally decrease the security of the computer like other anti-cheat drivers have done in the past). We're also following a least-privilege approach to the driver where the driver component does as little as possible preferring to let the non-driver component do the majority of work (also the non-driver component doesn't run unless the game is running). The Vanguard driver does not collect or send any information about your computer back to us. Any cheat detection scans will be run by the non-driver component only when the game is running. The Vanguard driver can be uninstalled at any time (it'll be "Riot Vanguard" in Add/Remove programs) and the driver component does not collect any information from your computer or communicate over the network at all." Source: www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/fzxdl7/comment/fn6yqbe/?

[@joaoteodororeis2051]

You demonize kernel access as being such an extreme thing, but the list of games that use Kernel access anti-cheat nowadays is actually huge. Its just necessary to have any meaningful chance agaisnt hackers and scripters.

[@deshawnmartins8206]

basic IT knowledge = I browse reddit and also dabble in conspiracytard videos on youtube

[@tarlin95]

​@@joaoteodororeis2051Is it demonizing, to be concerned about SW that runs on the highest privilege level, while being basically all time on?

[@AcediaRulerOfSloth]

@@joaoteodororeis2051 theres a big difference between having permanent kernel access and having limited kernel access though?

[@BHisme123]

"I know you're all challenger" damn right.

[@Ahandsomeface]

I think I'm just gonna wait and see what happens with this whole Vanguard issue. The fact that it runs 24/7 is very concerning to me. I'll watch from the sides and see what happens to LoL after Vanguard arrives. Hoping it's not that bad or Riot deicides to use something different. I really am tired of scripters and bots I get in my games, heck I don't play rank yet I see them in normals and sometimes aram games. But I also don't want my PC to explode just to play one game.

[@vilukmusic]

youre not a challenger, what scripters are you talking in your silver elo

[@paulojose7568]

If you can detect someone is cheating with you naked eyes, a machine could instantly get it. It just needs a bit of statistics aligned with matrices and things like that. Get the outliers, hire someone to check them and problem solved

[@ignacioariellopez8491]

@@paulojose7568 You are right, and wrong at the same time. No one can detect scripters or cheaters with the naked eye unless its REALLY blatant. Meaning, most (if not all) those "hackers" and "scripters" people are talking about, are either, truly scripters that are so stpidly blatant (and those get banned pretty much instantly), or just better than them and people cannot cope so they go "its full of scripters!!!!!" just because they dont know how to dodge a skillshot.

[@giswax]

Something not mentioned here is the slippery slope riot has made into a mundane expectation. It is a huge deal expecting your users to just give up complete access to your machine, and passing it off as nothing like this makes me wonder if they will do any other changes in the future with no say from its player base (who is very obviously against it). Sticking with a company who has no issue ignoring their player base and giving that company money to actively make your pc less secure just does not make sense to me.

[@misscharm6844]

its such a shame i hope i can still somehow play it without vanguard since i´m addicted to league but have private photos and use my pc for online banking and i dont trust the ccp with my data

[@OwO-yj2kr]

Vanguard is shit, there's so many anticheats that don't require to be on at all times. It already ruined my pc once by glitching out and booting multiple times on start of the pc and I had to restart it whole.

[@Eventzz0]

making shit up

[@bucket8207]

he's not making shit up xD he's got a valid point vanguard causes so many issues especially when trying to boot up the game I have never played a game except Valorant that needs me to get into Bios to even play it @@Eventzz0

[@ongseungwu4311]

sounds like a skill issue

[@OwO-yj2kr]

@@Eventzz0 nah

[@Myosotis5255]

yep it is actually super buggy and glitchy, I dont know if they fixed it yet but like 2 years ago when i installed valorant, vanguard completely took over my pc controls and wouldnt let me change my fan speed or overclock/undervolt my pc.

[@gengar618]

It’s crazy how many comments here are “this is my concern and why I do not like it” and the responses are just clowns saying things like “why do u care ur personal data is already being used? Who cares about your privacy you already have social medias everything is already out there” it’s wild how much the attitude of people internet has changed so much from the mid 2000’s/early 2010’s where people are actually confused as to why someone would want some kind of privacy

[@gondoravalon7540]

I can't help but be overly reductive, and chalk it up to morons being morons.

[@vyyr]

best part about it is how they conflate your data being spied upon to giving full access to your computer to the chinese goverment. It's even more ridiculous

[@RevuGG]

Good video. But it's a charade calling Vanguard just a Kernel level Anti-Cheat that runs 24/7. Compared to other Anti-Cheats it's very likely that an exploit can be used get unwanted access to your machine/network. Compare it to someone stealing your money while you are shopping vs someone being able to steal your money anytime anywhere. I wouldn't trust a company that already got their source codes leaked to not have possible exploits in their Anti-Cheat. Also having such a tool run constantly is more of a sign of incompetency rather than a good decision on Riots part.

[@Luna-qf2zc]

i'd rather play cs2 and run into a cheater half the matches i play, than sacrifice my privacy and open a huge door for viruses, backdoors and other malware

[@thatfrog4104]

Pretty sure it is not as big of a risk as people claim. "We've tried to be very careful with the security of the driver. We've had multiple external security research teams review it for flaws (we don't want to accidentally decrease the security of the computer like other anti-cheat drivers have done in the past). We're also following a least-privilege approach to the driver where the driver component does as little as possible preferring to let the non-driver component do the majority of work (also the non-driver component doesn't run unless the game is running). The Vanguard driver does not collect or send any information about your computer back to us. Any cheat detection scans will be run by the non-driver component only when the game is running. The Vanguard driver can be uninstalled at any time (it'll be "Riot Vanguard" in Add/Remove programs) and the driver component does not collect any information from your computer or communicate over the network at all." Source: Riot (www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/fzxdl7/comment/fn6yqbe/?)

[@strawhatJ]

if you are getting viruses in the current year it's purely an IQ problem, sorry lil bro

[@gondoravalon7540]

@@strawhatJ > *IQ problem* Says the one who clearly read something OP didn't write.

[@pingusdingus99]

man people really saying "privacy? pfff the govt already spies on you", even if that's true, privacy is a scale meaning you can have more or less privacy not just having it or not, also the privacy is the least of my concerns regarding vanguard if you watch the video you will know what happened with genshin's kernel level anticheat...

[@enneidrarose9645]

The reason i and some others dont like it, is that a good amount of us is that personal information on the pc cause we usually only have one device we do all our work or gaming on(i play most games on a Xbox. League and Minecraft are the only games now i play on pc). Also (this is just my experience with vanguard on valorant) it had some issues with emulators which i use for school (computer science student). Android studio just couldnt run emulators anymore with it. I dont know if the device was old or something but after the restart, the emulator part just wouldnt work.

[@MangaGamified]

Some have work and League all in one PC; and the PC has sensitive company files, well Riot themselves aren't giving insurance / collateral there won't be any spying. If they can't guarantee that other than "just trust us with our propriety software" then that's a deal breaker.

[@enneidrarose9645]

@@MangaGamified I agree. that what I'm saying

[@miorosa318]

They are making it way too complicated for a good amount of people to play the game with having to go into bios and implement things. That in itself will reduce people for them being 1: Lazy. 2: Not so Tech savy / Confused. 3: Afraid. So overall this will effect a good amount of players to be honest and they will most likely never touch it again. Hope they realize this and don't push it through.

[@simpicusmaximus]

I don't think people are against this becuase they are "lazy, not so tech savy and afraid". Just tired of corporations overstepping their boundaries. Say no to being the consumer-worker

[@formaltaliti]

You do realize, this is going to be less than .001% of the players, correct? Unless you're running some extremely old/outdated cracked version of windows, you aren't going to have to mess with the BIOS at all on windows 10/11, especially since win11 requires it now anyway.

[@Mavcjs]

@@formaltaliti You do realize that it's going to be more than 0.001% of players correct? Most people don't like their privacy being removed just because Riot doesn't want to A) remake the game with a better anti-cheat in mind and B) Make actual decent decisions that don't involve forcing the skin department to make more skins.

[@NotLookinGood]

@@formaltaliti clueless, most of the league player base is from 3rd world country my guy which means a bigger portion is not running windows 11(internet cafes)

[@goantasebastian2584]

you do realize that you most certainly already have one or more of this anti-cheats in your computer yes?

[@Jerrnej]

Please do not ever only blur you cmd output. Especially if you gonna show it to a public. Put some solid cover over sensitive data.

[@imperialspacemarine1539]

Its cool that riot now blocks me behind the paywall of "just by a tpm module or a new motherboard 4head!" like f you riot. you cant seriously boot players of your platform for not having the most modern hardware when other working anti cheats wont need this tpm crap. thanks for that (>ლ)

[@elitenoob2141]

Some people are going to be real mad once vanguard kicks in because their computer won't be able to play the game. If you think about it League has the most to suffer from this because it is a 2011 dx9 game that can run on your grandma's toaster and people were using potatoes to run it. Now all of those guys are getting booted out and probably not coming back soon.

[@choojooo8531]

This video is brought to you by tencent

[@mikyas392]

disabling vanguard when not playing and then restarting the pc to play is one of the reason i don't play valorant. it wouldn't matter if it didn't need the restart.

[@RavenAurion]

It is a huge issue because tencent is a Chinese company, bound by chinese law. If the Chinese government says "give us access" guess who gets access. There is NO reason why vaguard cant run just like the others, where it launches when a game launches. Having to reboot your PC if you close vanguard is absolutely clownish.

[@sametekiz3709]

yep,that's it.

[@blackcarnage1435]

Is it going to affect my game performance since its running in the background?

[@philipchouliaras5879]

Yes. If you are running on low ram and an old CPU it might even make it unplayable

[@Vetaa]

Yes,even in other games and even when you turn it off.

[@drjamaymay405]

Not by much. It takes around 0.1% of my cpu. It varies by each machine but you should be fine as long as your rig isn't 15+ years old.

[@elios7623]

well i guess i'm not playing arena anymore

[@aendisth1887]

So, before the anti cheat, my 3090 couldnt handle the vsync at 120hz (with random fps drops) now what? I will play with 20 fps? Best indie company ever.

[@Banter-vw7ck]

Manually installing a Rootkit created by a Chinese owned company to play LoL? I don't see this being popular with many users. But i reckon a vast majority of players will just install it anyway.

[@sametekiz3709]

3:20 no.There is not a misconception about that subject.Vanguard has more access to your computer than you have on average chromebook.

[@salj.5459]

I am not returning to League until this issue is resolved.

[@l4so102]

Ive seen several people have their computers bricked by vanguard specifically, not installing that

[@theoriginalrgbmike]

It's the reason I'm quitting and my whole playgroup is behind me, and I was the most active even in solo play. I kind of hope they backtrack because I really like LoL, but I won't play while vanguard is active.

[@gengar618]

When it was announced this was coming I uninstalled league immediately. I’ve played since season 3 and it’s crazy that this is what got me to kick league to the curb. I refuse to play any game that has a kernel level install.

[@gladiatorgamer9502]

Imagine if all the games have vanguard what u will do then😂

[@LeTim013]

You do know all your data is already being used and sold right ? What does it matter we all have personalised ads, they are even listening to every word you say, and AI is ruining it even further. You have 0 idea how fucked humanity is concerning our private data.

[@thatfrog4104]

More than just Vanguard is kernel level: EasyAntiCheat, PunkBuster, BattlEye, nProtect GameGuard, Xigncode3, EQU8, Activision’s Ricochet, Electronic Arts’ EA AntiCheat, and Blizzard’s Defense Matrix are all Kernel Level as well. Also for atleast PunkBuster, I believe that (used for Battlefield titles and more) run partly on startup. (had 2 services, only A ran on startup)

[@gengar618]

@@gladiatorgamer9502not play them? There’s already a lot of games that use kernel level stuff and I just don’t play them, and if you were smart you wouldn’t either. The risk isn’t worth whatever fun the game has

[@gengar618]

@@thatfrog4104 yeah I’m more than aware of that, that’s why I research games before I play them? If it has a kernel level anything I’m not playing it

[@koutsioj4762]

I think their best course of action would be an anti cheat system that is NOT kernel lvl. Sure, it might not be AS effective but it will probably be much better than what we have now and it wouldn't be nearly as scary for us players. I really hesitate installing vanguard as well.

[@drjamaymay405]

They have to use vanguard. It's their anti-cheat. It's a waste to spend development time on a worse anti-cheat. Outsourcing would be more expensive.

[@brumilton]

even tho i have the obvious privacy concerns, my main problem currently is that i have a pretty bad computer, and league is like the only online game that i can play with my friends, but now with vanguard i will probably be unable to play the game and no im currently not able to upgrade my setup :(

[@joshherring5946]

Im in the same boat :( i dont have hundreds of dollars to slightly upgrade just one component of my pc and wont for a while since i have too many bills to pay, this seems like at least 25% of leagues player base will either quit or wont be able to play any more and what scares me is the fact riot wont even care about it and call it a win because "less cheats and bots"

[@mgmlucy]

Yeah 24/7 is a no go, I got a blue screen once on my old laptop that brought up vanguard had stopped working as the cause of the crash. If I have the pic, somewhere in my library, I’d love to show it.

[@austinshomelab1848]

One of my main concerns is that I use parsec to play league on a remote PC... Parsec uses a virtual mouse and it works great. Vanguard goes out of its way to explicitly deny access to this virtual mouse. Using keyboard, etc works fine. I have created numerous tickets about this with Valorant and Riot refuses to do anything about it.... can't wait to be unable to play league now.

[@dragomaster2422]

Based and cool Ryscu. I think a lot of positives are moot becahse they are strictly for ranked and competitive players while a majority of Riot Games’ audience is casual, but it will still have an affect.

[@strawhatJ]

no one wants scripters in their normal games either. The positives are not moot at all lmfao.

[@andrew_h6]

Computer safety 101 is to only download things you trust. Riot could’ve bricked your PC if they wanted to long before you even thought about installing Vanguard. If you don’t trust Riot to install Vanguard, then you should have never installed anything from Riot at all. And by the same token, you shouldn’t ever have installed any game that uses Battleye or EasyAntiCheat.

[@bielhelp]

@@strawhatJ I play lol 2 times a week, maybe even less, and never seen one scripter in my normal games

[@jimmyjinx01]

@@strawhatJ I've played thousands of games on my account in draft pick alone and I cannot think of a single time I've seen someone and thought he had to be scripting, it just isn't a problem outside of ranked. The bot account are definitely a problem in bot games but those can easily be found using other means, riot just doesn't care enough to stop the botting problem.

[@redeyeskuriboh2839]

@@strawhatJ No one scripts in normal games. The positives are literally moot lmfao.

[@Avgsharkenjoyer]

"If you ever played any games on this list you have already used a kernel anti-cheat" *Planetside Arena* he doesn't know... 🗿

[@salj.5459]

Explain?

[@pangoomb6781]

I remember way back in the day some game was downloading a programm to check if your copy is not a pirate copy and right after that it un-installed itself but while running it checked most of the files on your PC(or something like that) and it got bullied so hard the developers had to remove it entirely

[@santiagoo275]

while i know that ranked is a big selling point of the game , i dont understand why is this much of a security flaw is forced on everyone and not only on those who are affected the most by it , eg: high elo players just let me chose to not play ranked and not install vanguard , boom , problem solved , everytime a company forces its entire playerbase to a change is ALWAYS done in bad faith

[@vyyr]

because riot did not want to solve this issue. For the past 7 years high elo has been "plagued" by wintraders, scripters and griefers, player propsed answer to the problem was very basic just have "admins" capable of observing high elo games. You only really need them in masters - gm +, it would cost peanuts, and provide a sensible solution. But riot didnt want to address the chinese wintrader problem in NA, because that would look bad. Instead of focusing on people soft-griefing or just running it down in high elo, riot cracked down on "bad words", because bad words make them look bad. And when scripting became more prelevant within the last 2-3 years, riot didn't want to introduce people to oversee high elo games, instead use it as a perfect opportunity to install a backdoor into 150 million devices.

[@santiagoo275]

@@vyyr yeah , not wanting to look bad is a staple of chinese companies , gotta wonder why riot is doing the same 🤔 still , im uninstalling it if its mandatoy , its about time i guess.

[@Yoshinko]

Can't wait for half my friend to be unable to play league because of Vanguard fucking around with drivers and impacting performance in general. Some of my friends' pc's already struggle in teamfights, one of them straight up crashes in Project Mordekaiser's ult, so if they have to fuck around with Bios and shit or upgrade their PC for league of all games they sure as hell won't. And if my friends won't be playing league, I won't be either because the only reason I play is because of them. I also can't wait for Vanguard to detect one of my random ass emulators that allows me to play old obscure games as "cheating software", which does not even run in the background during league, to get detected and get hardware banned off of it kekw.

[@antilar4579]

Watching this Video made me feel like riot wants me to install a virus

[@AcediaRulerOfSloth]

Not true that just because vanguard only communicates to the internet when the game is running = safe from malicious attacks when you're not playing You could have stored a bunch of instructions on the offline vanguard and then order it to send all your data over the internet when it has connection (there are malwares like this to hide itself)

[@gondoravalon7540]

Not to mention the amount of "trust me bro" that comes with claiming that it only communicates while the game is running, and/or the assumption that if it were true there wouldn't be any risk of that changing.

[@gibarel]

They have said that there will be no way to play on Linux anymore, so I'll just stop playing then.

[@DefinetlyFamillyFriendly]

Vanguard was the reason I did not play Valorant. I stopped playing league a month ago, waiting for the new season. With Vanguard coming to league I'll just quit entirely. Probably healthier anyway.