LEAKED TRANSCRIPT! Is it authentic? An engineering perspective.

[@christosvoskresye]

Agreed. That said, I am more bothered by the "expert" who said that it "plummeted" for about a minute; some sources even describe this as "free fall". Even if the pressure vessel were entirely filled with water, it would not be in "free fall"!

[@theeverydayengineer1]

I saw that one and was like what the heck is that guy on?!?!

[@christosvoskresye]

@@theeverydayengineer1 That "expert" seemed to put great emphasis on the supposed change of orientation of the submersible, from horizontal to nearly vertical. That would make sense if it were an airplane or, to a lesser extent, a submarine that controlled its rate of descent using dive planes. The submersible is more like a blimp than an airplane, though.

[@theeverydayengineer1]

@@christosvoskresye that guy sounds like a real “expert” for sure.🤣

[@markfernee3842]

Agreed. The reported buoyancy problems do not make physical sense. The only way to lose buoyancy is to displace air, and the pressure vessel seems to be the only place where this is possible. That said, there may have been other pressure vessels in the tail section, such as the electronics housings. This might be required to prevent possible turning moments due to the heavy equipment in the tail section.

[@theeverydayengineer1]

It looks like there was one or maybe two small pressure vessels in the tail section, but there would not be nearly enough volume with the amount of water that would need to replace air to present the buoyancy conundrum of the leaked transcript. And whatever was in those pressure vessels would have certainly made problems for the crew.

[@robvale1]

They said they had an A Bus failures, so it was probably a slow leak from the jump into that A Bus battery compt and NOT in the pressure vessel.

[@theeverydayengineer1]

The problem with that thought is that batteries are made out of solid materials and or a mix of solid and liquid materials. There is virtually no air space in a battery. So even if a battery bank got ruined, that would have virtually no impact on the buoyancy problem the leaked transcript describes.

[@robvale1]

@@theeverydayengineer1 it would short both short out the A BUss, snd the container encasing the baTeries, plural. That make up the A Buss would fill with water which prob couldn’t be offset by dropping ballast, as the water=weight…..a cubic foot of water weighs around 60 pounds…..and every pound of weight really mattered on the Titan……not knowing how much water can fill the sealed battery compartment (dont know the size of the container, nor how much water it displaces when sealed, its hard to figure……but they weighed everyone before boarding, including their phones, etc…..though if you saw the KZbinr’s vid of this, Stockton weighed him on CARPET….but, at least they were somewhat trying to control ballast and trim……think of those upside-down horseshoe looking weights that were on the skids…..and not all in a row, but a few were separated to help trim the craft……curious how movement of the suckers, i mean mission specialists inside would affect grime as they trade places to look outside, use the toilet (nasty)….whatever…..though it would probably be minimal, as the space is tight, and they are just rotating around……thus the weird way to dump ballast in an emergency- having everyone get to one side to roll the sub a bit to drop ballast…….weird. I’d love to know how much water the battery compt could hold if there was a leak.

[@lstnlne7399]

right on brother! calling them out on fake news to cover their butt when the sues are filed !

[@theeverydayengineer1]

My thoughts are that someone thought it would be a good joke to make up a fake transcript like this. It's just too easy in the world today. And to think just how few people would have had access to an official transcript? Likely a few employees on the boat out at sea. So which one of the few crew would have caved and "leaked" the information to the world?

[@Tsteinlauf]

Well thought out presentation, but I still don't agree with your conclusion. The Titan was slowly taking on water, therefore weight, from the beginning of this final dive. It was totally waterlogged by the time ascent was attempted. Where could the water have been? Perhaps in the non pressurized tail section, perhaps in the layers of wound fiberglass, like a sponge filled with water, still maintaining its outward shape, but becoming ever less buoyant. I don't think that anyone is clever enough to construct this scenario. I think that a sicko trying to gain media attention would have rejected this stream of events as too far out to be believed. However, in my experience, and I have lived longer than anyone aboard that submersible, truth is often stranger than fiction. I will be very surprised if it turns out, when the report is finally released, that this Transcript is fraudulent.

[@theeverydayengineer1]

The entire descent was as expected of not taking on any water, perfectly uniform. To take on water to affect the rate of descent it would have to be inside the pressure vessel. Even a small leak would have been audible. There is simply no other large spaces of atmospheric air to hold a massive amount of water to affect buoyancy outside the pressure vessel. Unfortunately there are a lot of ruthless people out there.

[@Tsteinlauf]

Not necessarily true. There was the whole non pressurized tail section. There is also the possibility that water was seeping into the outer layers of the fiber. The hull was 5 inches thick. Also something shorted out the batteries. Water is heavy and this would have been water added to a submersible which was in the descending mode. By the time they tried to ascend they could only slowly overcome the problem. The pressure on the already over compromised hull didn't give them enough time.

[@shooterqqqq]

I don't believe it was taking on any water at that point. I think the descent was so fast, it need to come to a complete stop which was not mentioned on the text, Then it had to start it's ascent which was going from a complete standstill which would have taken a few more minutes which they didn't have. System A was gone by that time and it's possible System B shared the same fate.

[@theeverydayengineer1]

Yes, the tail section was not a pressure vessel, and as such it also was not water-tight and easily was filled with water as soon as it got into the ocean. Carbon fiber composites is not like a sponge, it is mostly solid with microscopic air bubbles from the assembly process. Even if it could possibly take on water, it would be a very tiny amount. The depth vs time log of the descent shows no signs of taking on water that would affect buoyancy as it fell at a constant velocity. Stockton would absolutely knew if they were taking on water during the descent and would have scrubbed the mission.

[@markfernee3842]

The problem is that for water ingress, it has to displace something with a lower density. That almost certainly means something containing air. This can only be the pressure vessel, as non pressurised structures would fill with water in all cases. The same goes with the idea of delamination allowing water ingress. Unless the water is displacing a lower density medium, it will not affect the buoyancy. In other words, a waterlogged outer structure would not change the buoyancy.

[@Treys_Waterboy]

I don’t understand why they don’t deny it then.

[@theeverydayengineer1]

Most times there is an event resulting in death the quickest legal action taken is say nothing about everything. Plus, denying some "leaked" document floating around on social media is probably low in their list of concerns.

[@robvale1]

@@theeverydayengineer1In addition, there is probably no real “company” left since the CEO got crushed, there also probably isn’t anyone around who is allowed to say anything, nor would, for fear of being attached to this disaster….would you hire someone who worked there? Maybe in my custodial or janitorial dept.

[@juliaanderson2621]

He probably had the thrusters backwards! Speeding descent slowing Ascent!

[@Tsteinlauf]

Thrusters wouldn't work anymore without battery power.

[@juliaanderson2621]

They did have battery! All the alarms were going off!

[@shooterqqqq]

It's possible system A was a total failure and the frame was never jettisoned. The panic set in when the ascent was too slow and they couldn't explain that. If it was faked, I don't think the fakers would have added that.

[@theeverydayengineer1]

The occupants would have felt every single one of the ballasts being released. It being a sudden change of the buoyant force there would be an acceleration until the Titan hit a new terminal velocity with the new forces at play, and this would have been a particularly noticeable acceleration with the very heavy frame.

[@shooterqqqq]

@@theeverydayengineer1 Except they didn't notice a significant change in the ascent. If the frame had been jettisoned the ascent rate would have been noticed. They had no idea why the ascent was going so slow. In support of your theory, the recovery team seems to have a photographed undamaged frame.

[@jimw1615]

@@shooterqqqq The recovered landing frame legs are clearly damaged (one gusset is separated along one edge) and the horizontal members (skids) connecting the two legs are missing altogether. I have to believe that the landing legs did not detach from Titan and may have been hung up by the partial release of one of the straps holding it to the titanium rings at each end of the carbon fiber hull. And that is why they only recorded (?) the slow ascent shown in the transcript.

[@shooterqqqq]

@@jimw1615 Perfect sense. And anyone faking the transcript wouldn't know that. Thank you.

[@usernamein7560]

​@@jimw1615Fantastic observation! I have had this theory all along that not only is this transcript absolutely true, it also indicates a stage by stage failure of the electrical system which was in fact not engaging or partially disengaging the various ballast systems - a point your observation validates. This failure may have resulted in them not noticing the rapid descent to begin with (until the RTM actually worked, although it was too late). The fact that they were trying to ascend has been corroborated by multiple sources including James Cameron. In any case, the investigation will hopefully reveal the truth.

[@HLZ90]

Any chance that the rapid descent was due to them being caught in a downwelling current?

[@theeverydayengineer1]

Nothing in the leaked transcript mentions anything of the descent being too fast. If it was Stockton would have surely mentioned something, or so would the top. A downward current would however speed up descent compared to still water.

[@shooterqqqq]

@@theeverydayengineer1 The leaked transcript mentions they arrived one hour early. 8:01 to 9:47 . It was supposed to take two and a half hours.

[@theeverydayengineer1]

@@shooterqqqq the rate of decent from that transcript was right about 40m per minute. The titanic at almost 4,000m deep would take about 100 minutes to get there. Plus they woudl slow descent down the last few hundred meters with the air bladders, so that pace would easily have made the descent be at the roughly 2 hour mark that I heard it was expected to take. According to this transcipt they were not near the end depth of the descent. Either way, if the craft was descending too quickly they certainly would scrubbed the mission very early on. That would be one parameter that would have just not been acceptable to proceed as that would have been a sign of a potentially serious problem. It just seems too implausible that the transcript would not acknowledge the anomaly of the rate of descent and just say everything is A-Okay.

[@shooterqqqq]

@@theeverydayengineer1 It should have taken two and a half hours to get there. They were an hour early and 1200 meter deeper than they should have. Please read the transcript and notice they advertised a two and a half trip to the wreck.

[@theeverydayengineer1]

@@shooterqqqq I read what transcripts I could. Can you send me a link to the ones you had? I would be curious to read it. Any which way about the descent rate, if it was taking on water, Stockton would have noticed because he would have had to adjust the descent to keep it at a consistent rate. Absolutely nothing lined up with the titan taking on water anywhere in the initial descent.

[@jimw1615]

So the question becomes how and where did water leak into Titan at a relatively "slow rate" to add weight to Titan that impaired its speedy ascent after shedding ballast and the landing frame?

[@theeverydayengineer1]

There is no way the Titan would have been taking on water under high pressure and the crew never know. If it was somehow taking on water without immediately imploding, it would have eventually filled up to the point they rescue team would have found an intact, water filled submersible at the bottom of the ocean. I am in the camp of people that thinks they may have heard a few cracks and pops in the few seconds before the implosion and had zero time to react. This transcript was just written by someone as a cruel joke.

[@TheScotsalan]

​@@theeverydayengineer1Agree, the noise would have probably been deafening too, if there was even a pin hole leak

[@theeverydayengineer1]

@@TheScotsalan yes, even a tiny pinhole leak at over 5,000psi of pressure would have been audible.

[@Tsteinlauf]

Once the ends popped off in the implosion, the water inside would have joined the rest of the water at the ocean floor. I will be interested to see, if they have any remnants of the hull, if somehow there is any evidence of water within the fiber layers. Also I think the end was caused by both a non buoyant submersible and the implosion of that overstressed hull finally giving way.

[@TheScotsalan]

@@Tsteinlauf Yup. Totally agree, samples of the hull could show the failure mode. But I dont know if its worth it to get the samples. Everyone pretty much agrees the design was bad. I dont think anyone else will be making deep subs from CF. 👍.