Learn Catalan language: difference and pronounciation of "L·L" and "LL"

[@JoaoP.434]

The "ll" sound in Catalan is the same as the "lh" sound in Portuguese. Interesting

[@IrvingBeatle]

¡Salve! :) El sonido de la «ll» catalana SÍ EXISTE en castellano, pues así suena la doble ele en la pronunciación no yeísta. Es, digamos, el sonido original de la doble ele en español. Es bastante normal que se ignore la existencia de tal sonido en la lengua española, pues el yeísmo, es decir, la pronunciación de la doble ele como ye (fenómeno fonético que, me parece, también existe en la lengua hermana catalana), está extendidísimo hoy en día en el mundo hispanohablante. No obstante, sobrevive aún en varios países, entre ellos, Paraguay, Bolivia y partes de España. Menciono que dicho fonema también existe en otras lenguas románicas, como el portugués (representado por «lh», como en «olhos», «trabalhar», «mulher») o el italiano (representado por «gli»), pues es un rasgo fonético de la evolución de la lengua latina al romance. Además, como ejemplo de su correspondencia sonora, en este caso con el italiano, escribimos el verbo «pillar» con elle y no con i griega porque se tomó del italiano «pigliare». O, sin ir más lejos, en castellano decimos «lengua castellana», lo cual en italiano se dice «lingua castigliana». Aquí dejo algunos ejemplos de hispanohablantes no yeístas: kzbin.info/www/bejne/d3K1o6l5fL10bsk (varios ejemplos durante todo el video). kzbin.info/www/bejne/h53Vgoauicdgma8 kzbin.info/www/bejne/qpClnq2enaqcbM0 (minuto 3:40). kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z3KrnIyor5WNpJo kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z5C8Znd8qauiobc (minuto 10:20 y más ejemplos a lo largo del video). kzbin.info/www/bejne/bIekend7pb1gZqc (minuto 2:28). kzbin.info/www/bejne/lWXMlZmEj711rJI (minuto 32:34). kzbin.info/www/bejne/hZqygnh_fducqNU (minuto 1:05 y más ejemplos a lo largo del video).

[@pietrobattistolo]

y no solo en lenguas romances: el quechua también tiene ese fonema y la diferencia al pronunciarlo es bien notoria ya que no hay yeísmo entre los quechuahablantes. ¡saludos!

[@hiskakun2276]

Basicamente. El yeísmo en el castellano está tan extendido que practicamente se considera la pronunciación correcta. Pero la verdad es que originalmente la pronunciación es la misma que en catalán. En Perú la pronuncian correctamente sin yeísmos (es decir, como la ll catalana) porque el quechua también tiene este sonido, por lo que se diferencian sin confusiones.

[@IrvingBeatle]

Salve, @@pietrobattistolo.También existe en el guaraní, por eso los paraguayos aún mantienen la pronunciación no yeísta.

[@IrvingBeatle]

@@hiskakun2276 Por supuestos, ambas pronunciaciones son igual de correctas, pues el yeísmo es solo resultado de la evolución natural de la lengua.

[@kame9]

@@IrvingBeatle igual que la B y V, algunos catalanoparlantes si la diferencian, y otras no, los hispanos directamente todo la pronuncian B.

[@fasmus17]

Hi! Olá! Hola!, from Portugal. Because of this video, I finally understood this subject. Thank you, Maria! Obrigado! Gràcies!

[@learncatalanfrombarcelona7756]

De res :)

[@tatumlenore1089]

Hi Maria, I am studying in Barcelona now and taking Intro to Catalan! Thank you for sharing your videos :) This topic was particularly helpful for me because I really didn't understand how to pronounce LL! Thank you!

[@learncatalanfrombarcelona7756]

Hola Tatum! What an exciting experience 😃 I am very happy the video was helpful and wish you a fab time in Barcelona

[@ningunores9100]

Notice also that catalan simple L is always palatal, like in english. "molt" (=very) sounds as english "mall" [mol]

[@fridasl6506]

@@marinahuizar6067 i am not a catalan speaker bur i perceive the same thing as both of you

[@renardmigrant]

ca.wiktionary.org gives [moɫ]. I don't know what the difference between that and [mol] is.

[@АлексейЮняев-г5о]

Отличные видео. Я начал учить каталанский всего несколько дней назад и уже столкнулся с тем, что трудно найти какой-либо интересный материал на этом языке. А Ваши видео очень простые и не скучные. Moltes gracies!

[@learncatalanfrombarcelona7756]

Google Translate helped me 😉 Moltes gràcies pel comentari!

[@Emile.gorgonZola]

lh in portuguese and gl in italian right?

[@wetboyslippy]

I confirm the Italian 'GL' :)

[@learncatalanfrombarcelona7756]

Sadly my Porguese knowledge is close to non-existent. If there is a Portuguese native speaker in the room, please help :)

[@kevinpuja]

Native Portuguese speaker here. Yes, it's just like our 'lh'. :)

[@learncatalanfrombarcelona7756]

Merci Kevin!

[@felipepinheiro82]

Yo soy brasileño y digo que el LL Catalan me parece igual a la pronunciacion del LH Portugues. Ex: ALHO, PALHAÇO, ABELHA... :)

[@Rombizio]

Two LL together sounds like LH in Portuguese.

[@franpfdez]

Nope. Portuguese LH is like Spanish LL

[@paulocoelhodiaz]

Mais do 90% dos hispano-falalantes do espanhol pronunciam o "Y" e o "LL" da mesma maneira com o som de "Y". Esse fenomeno se chama "Yeísmo" tudo soa com "Y" e isso já vem de seculos... De facto se formos ver a origem da lingua sim há uma distincao fonetica onde antigamente o "LL" soava igual ao "LH"

[@littlewishy6432]

@Fran No, @Rombizio is right. The “ll” in Catalan is like “lh” in Portuguese and “gli” in Italian.

[@fasmus17]

Exactely! Exactamente!

[@dieggosilva9909]

Wow. I’m in love, not gonna lie. Greetings from Texas, doll.

[@wdoering01]

El "LL" en catalan es exactamente igual que el "LH" en portugues. cool

[@lucalatini4360]

the "LL" has the same pronunciation as the Italian trigram "GLI"

[@occihum9115]

Is it true that most Catalans pronounce l•l as a simple l?

[@TypicalRussianGuy]

The sound that is close to the Catalan ll also exists in Spanish, it is just pretty rare. It is pronounced in a similar way in some regions of Peru, and also I've heard some people from Spain say it in the word ''Castellano''. They pronounced it pretty close to ''Castelyano''. I actually believe it used to be more common in the past because most of the older Russian textbooks use ''ль'' for the Spanish ''ll'' instead of the ''й''. And ''ль'' is very close to the Catalan ''ll'', almost identical.

[@learncatalanfrombarcelona7756]

Very interesting background! Merci :)

[@dluckygurl8]

In the Philippines, we also had the Spanish LL in our alphabet but it was removed in the last 50 years. However, a lot of our surnames still has the Spanish LL (e.g. Castillo, Llanes, Llorente, etc.) and we pronounce it similar to some Peruvian regions you know, like 'LY' -- as in, Castilyo, Lyanes, Lyorente, etc.

[@geneberrocal3220]

I've always wondered about this!

[@laurencec09]

Always wondered this since I was at Paral·lel metro station in Barca ;)

[@habeng7208]

Moltes Gracies Maria🤟 You are so right about the subtle difference! I actually never noticed the similarity with the Spanish ‘Ella’, I just thought it was one of those unique aspects of Catalan language. I have heard it before in music, especially when referring to the moon I think (LLuna), and I thought 'I could never pronounce that'. But thanks to your analysis, I am beginning to think ‘it just maybe possible’ 🤞🤞👍👍 Moltes Gracies …. de nou 🙏💝

[@learncatalanfrombarcelona7756]

That's right, "lluna" is another great example! It's a very small difference, so wouldn't worry about it :) Just decided to cover this since it is quite a unique thing and not usually explained.

[@oscaraldoma4459]

Thanks! Great class!

[@Dimitris5353453]

M'agradan moltisim les cancons en català. Soc de Lima, Perù. Visca la cultura catalana. Tenim una llengua impressionant. Ara amb aquests vídeos puc aprendre mes coses interessants de la seva nació.

[@kame9]

te record que apart de catalunya també es parla a valencia, balears, qualcuna part d´aragó y a cerdenya, així que no domés es cultura catalana, realment el catalá es pot parlar de moltes maneres, l´unic que pasa es que la gent es basa en el catala standart.

[@jackc6506]

Moltes gracies. I love your channel so much

[@renardmigrant]

Re: ella. Wiktionary and two paper dictionaries I have both list the consonant as [ʎ]. They list [ˈe.ʎa] for the Spanish and [ˈe.ʎa] or [ˈe.ʎə]. That doesn't make you wrong, of course. Dictionaries aren't too bothered about trying to transcribe every possible pronunciation variant. There are often too many. You might know whether the difference between Spanish and Catalan is universal in Spain, or just regional.

[@fridasl6506]

Moltes gràcies! Great video! I needed this explanation!

[@badiaakhazzan4430]

Moltes Gracias 🥀🦋

[@DanCretu1752]

Moltes gracies Maria ! I am moving to Barna soon and Im really eager to learn the language. Thank you for your work and keep it up ! Molt de gust :)

[@learncatalanfrombarcelona7756]

Hola Dan! Sounds like an exciting move :D Glad this is helping and surely the vast majority of Catalans will appreciate the effort you put in learning our language

[@danielmorgado3268]

Grácias por el video. Me gustaria hacerte um pedido: un video sobre la pronunciación de los demonstrativos.

[@Rombizio]

LL is the same as LH in Portuguese. Very good explanation. I noticed the word "cop" has many different meanings as well as "cap". Can you explain the different uses for both like Cap de Govern or Cap de Setmane.

[@gonzalo_rosae]

wow your English pronunciation is so good

[@NN-qv7if]

Cool! In Croatian we have a digraph lj (Lj) that is pronounced exactly like in Catalan (ljeto = summer)

[@ryanbeaufort1340]

Hola, María... Moltes gracies! Aquí en Filipinas, cuando pronuncian LL los filipinos, se pronuncian como LY así cómo se pronuncia en catálan y el español de Perú.. Por ejemplo, "calle" se cambió a "Kalye" 😊

[@user-xb3cw7xu7z]

Puedes hacer un vídeo sólo sobre la ll final?

[@learncatalanfrombarcelona7756]

Hay un ejemplo en el momento 3:30 :)

[@sonckad]

Hi Maria, I was wondering if you knew of anyone doing individual online Catalan courses?

[@learncatalanfrombarcelona7756]

Hola sonckad! I don't know anybody giving 1:1 online lessons. However, you may want to check UOC.edu (Open University of Catalonia). I know they offer online language courses, but not sure they also teach in English.

[@proudhon9120]

You're hardly ever going to do spanish teaching videos? I know there is already so much content available for learning spanish but I like your videos 🙌

[@learncatalanfrombarcelona7756]

Moltes gràcies. That is a great compliment! ☺️ For the moment being, I want to stick to my purpose of sharing Catalan with all of you. I’d rather focus on this topic and provide content that is useful :)

[@proudhon9120]

@@learncatalanfrombarcelona7756 Sure, thanks for replying, maybe I'll just switch focus to catalan heh heh

[@Marcel_Audubon]

very good instruction!

[@williambarber404]

Fantastic. Gracies.

[@helcium_nz]

In Portuguese we use LH for the sound o LL, which is a palatal lateral approximant /ʎ/. I was told that the digraph Lh and Nh (in Castillian and Modern Catalan the ñ is used) was borrowed from Occitan/Provençal (which is the ancestor language of Catalan), but I think under Castillian influence the Catalans use the LL for that sound.

[@learncatalanfrombarcelona7756]

Hola Hélcio! I guess you are talking about these 2 different sounds: [ʎ] for LL and [ɲ] for NY?

[@geneberrocal3220]

Portuguese= nh Spanish= ñ Catalan= ny

[@learncatalanfrombarcelona7756]

Merci Gene 😊

[@learnwithms.a3648]

This is so interesting. Filipinos pronounce the "LL" the Catalan way. We say "Castillo" like "Castilyo" :D Gracias for this video.

[@hiskakun2276]

Spanish also used to have this sound, but now yeísmo (prounounce the ll like y) is so extended that is practically the norm. But in Peru spanish, they still make the difference and pronounce it like in catalan, and as you said, also in Filipinas. I have a Filipino friend and I asked him how do you say street in the Filipines, and he said /calye/, which ly is the catalan ll. In spanish is calle, and should be the same, but as I said before yeísmo is too extended.

[@carltomacruz9138]

@@hiskakun2276: Specifically, it's the Andean part of Peru that preserves lleísmo. In those areas, Quechua and Aymara are natively spoken, and those languages have the /ll/ sound. The coastal parts of Peru, like Lima, observe yeísmo. Then again, there are some non-Andean Peruvians who do pronounce /ll/ the original way. When the writer Mario Vargas Llosa visited Manila, I was fortunate enough to accompany my boss to his lecture in a university. I noticed right away that he interchanged between lleísmo (60%) and yeísmo (40%) in his speech.

[@madamchang3530]

@@hiskakun2276 thanks for the info. I didn't know that the trend of pronouncing ll as y is called "yeísmo" I'm gonna search for that.

[@humpty2460]

Moltes gràcies Maria! I imagine if the "ll" is said incorrectly, it's a dead giveaway that the person speaking is a foreigner, no? To me, it's so subtle that if you hadn't pointed it out, I wouldn't be able to distinguish it from the Spanish pronunciation. I'll have to do more research on this.

[@wetboyslippy]

Hi Jason, I'm sure Maria will be able to add contributions for your research about the difference between the Spanish and Catalan 'll' much better than me - and I apologise if I'm being invasive - I just thought that, as she said, we're part of the same community so it's good if we all contribute to help each other out :) So, I would say that an English speaking person, to highlight this difference, would pronounce ELLA as 'AE-YA' in Castilian and as 'AELIA' in Catalan, but spreading the tongue more widely against the palate (instead of just its tip) when pronouncing the 'LI' in 'AELIA'. Hope this helps and... Maria please, correct me if I'm wrong! Genial diumenge!!

[@learncatalanfrombarcelona7756]

Hola Jason! To be honest (I am being very strict and academic here), not even every Catalan native speaker would perfectly pronounce it. So don't worry too much about it. I decided to make this video since I thought it was quite a particular thing that is not usually explained, but still interesting :)

[@learncatalanfrombarcelona7756]

Hola Alex i merci per contribuir! Very well described ;) I guess it is what I tried to say when I mentioned that in Catalan the tongue plays a "stronger" role ;)

[@renardmigrant]

That's called a shibboleth.

[@ethana.moscoso7293]

Que chévere! No sabía que en catalán había una L'L geminada, estaba pronunciando esas palabras con la 'elle.' De hecho en el castellano de suramérica todavía se usa la pronunciación de la "LL" que tú usas en el catalán hasta el día de hoy, pero más que todo en la región andina (Ecuador, Perú, Bolivia y parte de Argentina). Saludos!

[@learncatalanfrombarcelona7756]

Qué interesante, no lo sabía! Gracias Ethan por el comentario :)

[@razvantudorica3420]

the sound for ll in camell (i hear just an y not an ly) is very different from the ll in the other examples.

[@TheSoundOfDistantThunder]

So is the LL sound a bit like LY in English?? Sorry I'm still SUPER new.

[@exmilitaramigo]

É o nosso LH do português, mas sem ser aquele dígrafo LH mais pesado do norte do Brasil.

[@tupisamba211]

I've seen this refered to in two different ways. Punt volat and ela geminada. I'm assuming the first is simply the dot, and the second is the dot when used between two Ls.

[@learncatalanfrombarcelona7756]

That's right!

[@renardmigrant]

"I'm not a philologist" made me laugh as 99% of English speakers won't know what that means. In fact, I'm only vaguely sure myself. And I sometimes call myself a 'Romance philologist'.

[@tombartram7384]

99% of the kind of English speakers who would be watching this kind of vid know EXACTLY what a philologist is.

[@eduardroma3305]

Ho dieu molts però "què tal?" no és català. Les versions catalanes del Qué tal? Castellà són: com va? Com anem? Entre d'altres

[@zainzaino8527]

Thank you very much

[@Sirjohnny]

very well done

[@arpitbhadrajulio4207]

Don´t know but have the gut feeling it sounds more like The English LY Maybe we can try pronouncing Elya would that be right? Currently, I am proceeding with this phonetic Any corrections are always welcome.

[@iamvinayaktyagi]

Thanks! Maria

[@ikarly2898]

Is double rr in Catalan pronounced the same way as in Spanish? Like, certain surnames e.g. Torra?

[@guillemmontesmansergas3952]

Ludovic Campos Yes it is! A strong, rolling R. This also works for R’s when they are at the beginning or end of any word, or also in case they are just before another consonant!

[@rajkumarisharma9842]

Great

[@pauljack3183]

Good one

[@learncatalanfrombarcelona7756]

Merci Paul!

[@xubunquin]

Italian's "gl" is just like ella in Catalan!

[@europa_bambaataa]

it's a very catalan sound

[@driftwoodnyc]

The LL sound in Catalan is how most Filipinos learn to say LL, not "ye" like most Spanish speakers. To us, paella is pronounced "paelya" not "paeya"

[@juberahmed9886]

Vous êtes Très belle

[@Nikelaos_Khristianos]

Catalan "LL" sounds like you're pressing the tip of your tongue to the roof of your mouth and then rolling the tip against the back of your teeth. How do they teach kids to make this sound in school? I remember the first years of prep school before we took Afrikaans properly was spent practicing the rolled "r" and phlegmy "g" so we could pronounce the words correctly when we got to third grade.

[@ningunores9100]

*hola és un castellanisme recent. En català és : Ei, ep, uep, uepa, eu, ou, iu. Salut.

[@learncatalanfrombarcelona7756]

Em sembla interessant això que dius. Saps si puc trobar més informació en algun article o publicació online?

[@ningunores9100]

@@learncatalanfrombarcelona7756 Vine al grup de Facebook Aprenguem la nostra pròpia llengua, en el qual obrem à desinterferir el català. Hola no se diu ni en rossellonès ni en balear, ni en alguerès... No és de la llengua antiga, ui molts indicis en vermell...

[@sebastiaanvanwater]

Ah yes, good idea for a video. Very subtle difference. This reminds me of this classic: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z5uQaGmbgd9knsU But seriously... is it possible most of those words that sound like a long L are borrowed words from other languages? Thus that would explain why the other words have a "very catalan sound" because they're original Catalan words? Wild guess.

[@learncatalanfrombarcelona7756]

Hahaha something similar, yes 😂 😂 😂 mmmm good question, I am afraid I do not have the answer!

[@ningunores9100]

The difference is not subtle: LL sounds [l'y] said quickly. In oriental catalan there is also TLL wich sounds [l +l'y]: "espatlla" [ëspal - lyë].

[@blaznfattyz]

will you be my girlfriend?

[@popmerde]

Get a life