Learning The Expensive Way | Southern Utah Large Format Film Photography

[@chriswraythefineprint8238]

Just something to keep in mind, and maybe run through a phone app or online calculator...At f32 the hyperfocal distance for the 105mm is just under 11 feet, so you would get from 5.5 feet to infinity, which you don't even have in this image. I see a lot of people tilting wide angles when they could just use the depth of field with the f stop. It is good to carry a small card with your basic numbers written on it. Even with a big image circle on a 90mm f8 lens, there would be no need to tilt for that image. A big image wide lens is usually more needed to use rising front to keep buildings vertical.

[@ChrisDarnell]

Thanks Chris, that's great advice and very good points. I admit I don't completely understand hyperfocal just yet, but the last couple times I've been out with the camera I have been working towards using depth of field more instead of trying to contort the camera into perfect focus with the aperture set at f/5.6, haha. Thanks for the tip!

[@SteveShermansPowerofProcess]

Hello Chris, always enjoy the Utah landscape and the infinite possibilities in offers the LF photog. Hopefully my few comments will help not only you but others here who may have heard less than optimum information. First, in your video I heard you say that the front lens was "tipped" forward to gain depth of focus and as a result your negative was vignetted. The exact same near / far focus gain will happen when tipping the rear standard in the "opposite" direction, in other words, pull the top of the rear standard back. Identical movement, the upside is the image circle is not compromised, in fact, mathematically, the film surface shrinks ever so slightly. Secondly, with regard to depth of field, particularly with wide angle lens, the greater f-stops, such as f 32 on a WA lens tend to loose sharpness from their optimum of 2 stops down to a greater degree than normal and longer lens when stopped down to small apertures. Also, there is only one exact optically correct plane of sharpness, f-stops merely allow the the "circle of confusion" to be acceptable @ a normal viewing distance, it's a complicated formula. The take-away should be, there are camera movements on the view camera to be taken advantage of, why wouldn't one use them to gain no only faster shutter speeds but also a sweeter part of the lens. VC movements are quite simple when applying them to the landscape genre. Everyone operates differently, my preference is to maximize the tools and equipment at hand.

[@ChrisDarnell]

Thanks Steve, constructive tips and wisdom are definitely welcome! My hope here is to share my experiences and the lessons I learn as I grow as a photographer so the advice is greatly appreciated!

[@regaling]

Yeah, I like the image with the array of four rocks (bottom image). Nice work. Nice drone work too. Cheers.

[@ChrisDarnell]

Thank you!

[@duncanthomas7431]

I`m new to the world of large format photography having recently purchased an Intrepid 4x5. I've been watching your videos for a wile now and have learnt so much from you. Thanks so much for sharing your experiences and keep those videos coming. I enjoyed the photos of the boulders.

[@ChrisDarnell]

Thank you Duncan, comments like yours are the single greatest source of motivation I have to continue developing my own craft so I will do my best!

[@herbertbradford9579]

You know you have the best 4x5 show out there.

[@ChrisDarnell]

Thanks Herbert, that’s really kind!

[@lensman5762]

The 105s unless they are of AS variety, are usually for the 6X9 format. I have a Fujinon SW105 that easily covers 5X7 with movements. Great shots. The corners are fine and not too distracting .

[@ChrisDarnell]

Thanks! Pretty sure mine is for a 6x9. Oh well, was a great learning experience anyway!

[@brianbeattyphotography]

Great intro video work Chris! That is some spectacular scenery. And I agree that the darker exposure is the much better option. Very natural image that turned out great.

[@ChrisDarnell]

Thanks Brian!

[@ScottWalton]

Good one Chris. That’s a nice image for sure and you were able to fix all the issues in post. You did very well on your trip. Three solid images is great output.

[@ChrisDarnell]

Thanks Scott! I'm still getting used to the lower volume of output on LF but I do feel pretty good about what I was able to accomplish

[@ScottWalton]

@@ChrisDarnell Each one will probably end up more special to you this way, since it takes more time to consider everything and then make the image. Now, you'll get faster over time and especially if you ever get a camera that sets up and tears down a bit more quickly. But there is nothing wrong with a bit less output when you're putting more into each one.

[@michaelofmelrose]

Very interesting capture Chris. I know sheet film ain't cheap, one idea is use the lens a bit more, see if can worked around.

[@ChrisDarnell]

Thanks Michael! I haven't given up on that lens just yet, it might make it into a smaller backpacking kit in the future or something

[@coastalbay4k]

Great video sir!! Glad I found your channel!! Just subbed and looking forward to future videos!!

[@ChrisDarnell]

Thank you!

[@philipculbertson55]

Enjoyed it Chris. Yeah, wet clay is a nightmare. Here in the South, it is red clay and it is like grease when wet. I was curious on the lens, what specs could have provided a heads up on the vignetting when making movements or would you have to count on a reviewer giving that kind of info.

[@ChrisDarnell]

Thanks Philip! The main specification to look for on this particular issue is the diameter of the image circle. To cover a sheet of 4x5 film we need an image circle diameter of 162mm or better, but all the information I could find on my lens was showing exactly 162mm. That’s enough to just barely cover the film but as soon as I started applying movements it put the film outside of that coverage area. There’s a few large format websites I’ve been able to find on google that list specifications for common lenses and that’s what I’ve been checking with to help me avoid this in the future. Hope that helps!

[@philipdahl9001]

I ran into exactly the same problem with my 105mm Fujinon lens. I had bought it for my Horseman 980 and it works great on that camera. I have learned that if you use tilt movements on the back standard instead of the front the image circle isn't a problem. I use circular filters and they can cause a little vignetting on this lens, too. So I am in the market for a 90mm as well😉.

[@ChrisDarnell]

Very true, I'm fortunate enough to have a full compliment of movements on the rear standard as well so that is how I'm approaching the lens now also. Between that and being more careful about camera placement. Thanks Philip!

[@rupunzel6299]

Been using a Fujinon 105mm f8 SW on 5x7 for years, no issues with image circle and the image circle of 250mm easily covers 5x7 and 4x5 with the camera and bellows being the limiting factor. The 105mm f5.6 Fujinon W has an image circle of 162mm, barely covers 4x5. If this is the lens in question, that is why the difficulty.

[@waynesimon7096]

"It's all about the boulders" love it Chris... Ya, you certainly have to watch image circle when you purchase. I think everyone who has purchased a large format lens as a newbie has made that mistake. I'm guilty of the same. Didn't hurt the lovely composition of your image. By the way, the opening video footage was brilliant. Keep those 4x5 images coming guy.

[@ChrisDarnell]

Thanks Wayne! I'm certainly going to try!

[@kit441]

Another great vid Chris. Like you I've recently made the leap into LF as I'd become bored with digital. I only shoot black and white as I've set up a darkroom in the garage. I purchased a Wista VX last year and am very happy with the build quality , but having seen your set up, I'm seriously considering the same, having seen how compact you get it all into the F64. About vignetting, once I have set up the image I check all the corner's for vignetting by looking through the front of the lens. Anyway, keep the great work, they're very entertaining. Cheers mate, Kit (UK).

[@ChrisDarnell]

That's an awesome idea.. what are you looking for? Just the corners of the ground glass? Congrats on the leap and thank you!

[@kit441]

@@ChrisDarnell Hi Chris. Yes, I take off the dark cloth exposing the GG, scoot around to the front and look through the wide open lens. If you have shifted, or given to much rise or fall you will see the darkened corner's. It's a pain in the rear having to reset, but at least you get your perfect image.

[@kit441]

@@ChrisDarnell Also, if you don't already have it, you have to read, VIEW CAMERA TECHNIQUE by LESLIE STROEBEL.... It's the LF Bible, but HEAVY reading. Everything you want to know regarding LF will be answered in this book, and I mean everything.

[@ChrisDarnell]

That’s an amazing tip, thanks for that. I’ll check out that book for sure!

[@kit441]

I don't know if you shoot black and white? But if you get the notion too, I have a couple of combinations to get almost grainless seamless negatives you can have. I've been using these, for several years for my medium format work. I used to use Oriental Seagull paper for printing up to 16x12, but sadly can't get it anymore.

[@ducatitastic]

Hi Chris, I've just subscribed to your channel and I have to take my hat off to you for using a monorail camera in the field, keep up the good work.

[@ChrisDarnell]

Thanks Michael!

[@RAHMATSUGIANTO]

The best video👍

[@danieldegennaro5606]

Good work Chris. After spending years behind a 4X5 I learned that good lenses are expensive. Never found a bargain lens to be nearly as good. Borrow from a friend to try out new lenses if you can. Start your own local support group of fellow image makers.

[@ChrisDarnell]

Thanks Daniel, that's a very good point and one that I'm realizing as well. Great ideas on the support group; maybe I'll start a local LF chapter!

[@BillMcCarroll]

Great series Chris, inspires me to get into our local desert.

[@ChrisDarnell]

Thanks Bill! Hopefully the temps will calm down soon so it's a bit more comfortable!

[@kenklontz1945]

Your journey continues 🤙also what light table are you using thanks

[@ChrisDarnell]

Hi Ken, I've just been using a cheap-o from Amazon - ASIN# B01M26S3VY. Honestly, it's not very color accurate and I need to upgrade it but it works fine for reviewing most things. I do notice it's a lot more blue than the scans that come out of my flatbed scanner, even with no adjustments.

[@stuartbaines2843]

Get hold of a Nikkor 90 f8 classic for 4c5👍

[@sophietucker1255]

One of the other LF sites that I watch says that once you are set up that the vignetting you encountered is very difficult to see on the ground glass but if you look through the front of the lens you will more easily see the vignetting. I was surprised at how much the image circles can vary even for lenses of the same focal length. Some of the 90mm lens have rather small image circles so really do your home work before buying.

[@ChrisDarnell]

Thanks Sophie! Another commenter suggested the same thing so I was playing with this on my camera and it does seem to be a cool trick! I’ll play with it more while out in the field for sure

[@rupunzel6299]

Learn to use the cut corners on the ground glass to check for lens coverage with camera movements added. Basically, the entire lens aperture must be in view at all four cut corners of the ground glass with the lens stopped down to the taking aperture. Modern 90mm f5.6 or f4.5 full aperture view camera lenses typically have an image circle of 235mm or more @f22, this often easily exceeds the camera movement capability of the majority of 4x5 view cameras. Exception would be the 90mm f8 SW nikkor which has the largest image circle for a 90mm wide angle of this size.

[@michaelharmon7162]

Get a 90 or a 75 I have both plus a 65 and love them.

[@ChrisDarnell]

Thanks Michael! How has your experience with the 65 been? What model did you pick up, if I may ask?

[@rupunzel6299]

Color transparency film like Fuji Provia has exposure latitude of maybe 1/2 f-stop within the box speed rating. If the exposure is off, the inherent color balance of the film will shift and overall contrast rendition will be significantly altered. IMO, not a good idea to try "fix-up" in software as if the information was never recorded or distorted on film that information cannot be recovered. This becomes an exercise in replacing lost information. Taking lens apertures for modern lenses should fit between f16 and never more than f45, smaller the taking aperture below f16 reduces resolution recorded on film due to diffraction. This is why applying camera movements to optimize taking aperture and actual plane of focus is SO important. This problem grows with increasing sheet film format size. Calculates hyperfocal length and all those DOF guides are less useful and revealing compared to close examination of the ground glass image with the lens stopped down to the taking lens aperture using a 7x loupe. Focusing with the lens at full aperture, then stopping down to the projected lens taking aperture done not always result in a proper in focus image. Stopping the lens down often does not fix this. "Bargain" view camera lenses are not recommended for those starting out in view camera due to the problems than can cause. Stay with modern proven good view camera lenses from Schneider, Fujinon, Rodenstock, Nikkor. Make sure the shutter is in proven and known good condition with accurate shutter speeds. If the shutter speeds are off, that will become another source of hidden grief. Most common three lens focal lengths for 4x5, 90mm wide, 150-210mm "normal. 300mm long aka tele. Properly made sheet of 4x5 film using good lenses, proper exposure and related will easily exceed the resolution capability of any modern digital camera (yes even those 100MP medium format digital). Color rendition of film can be more accurate and better than any single image sensor digital camera using a Bayer array with Demosaic color recovery math/software.

[@ChrisDarnell]

Wow, that’s a lot to unpack but all seems to ring true. Thanks for the tips!

[@andyvan5692]

good points, but one silver lining!, this will NOT be the case if, say you shoot 6x6 roll film, as the format is smaller, the vignette will not show until a much more extreme movement is applied, so KEEP the 105, BUT designate it for roll film work!!

[@ChrisDarnell]

Thanks Andy, I did end up keeping the 105 for the time being and funny enough I've been looking at 120 backs quite a bit lately so that may become a reality

[@andyvan5692]

@@ChrisDarnell yes, but be wary of these to, as, like the sinar vario back, they can and Do go up to 6x12 or 6x17 panoramic sizes, for those cameras!- then you are just back at square one again.

[@1911geek]

Over by 1 or 1.5 it looks like. I think these images will come alive in BW

[@ChrisDarnell]

Hadn’t considered a B&W conversion, thanks for the idea!

[@olympus2OM]

Large format ist a waste of time, money and film (chemicals). 
 35mm film or medium format is really good enough for almost everything. And you can shoot 35 mm film or medium format very slow too. But you can focus on the subjects, the surroundings, the scene and not mainly who to use and handle the large format gear. 
 And because the large format camera is so heavy and uncomfortable in use you will get only average shots. The best perspective usually isn't there were the tripod stands. This is why the composition sucks too. 
 And the models for portrait shots are waiting and waiting and waiting till the guy is ready with the settings and the tripod. No spontaneity in the portraits only annoyed models from waiting.

[@ChrisDarnell]

The great thing about photography is that you and I can choose completely different formats and approaches and we can both be happy. If the smaller formats and less technical cameras are more your style then I'm happy for you

[@luisoneillteixeira]

Christ !