Learning to SHMUP Part 2: Success, Failure, Lessons Learned and Goals

[@AKTANEARCADE]

You're getting into an excellent discussion which we often have about " what is fundamental shmup skill"... as well as transferrable skills... and I think there's several answers to that question. I won't get into a novel here but I think one of the most interesting things I have found in my journey (starting in Jan 2021) - was that simply playing and overcoming games no matter what kind of bullshit they throw at you, just gaining "experience" and playing more ... that's an under-talked about point. There will be many times where you think your "skill" is specific to the game, while this is true (ikaruga is a great example of that)... I have found the opposite is true in practice. Playing some really odd shmups have somehow improved my performance in others! Keep up the video content as usual!!

[@retrogamingknight]

That's an interesting perspective that I had not considered. I imagine that it comes down to how each individual learns. Thanks for sharing your experiences.

[@AKTANEARCADE]

@@retrogamingknight you're so right. It's highly personalized. You're totally right though overall, some skills taught are more transferrable and get you further in a new game at the onset

[@soratheorangejuicemascot5809]

Playing games with different mechanics taught me how to do resource management. Managing "hypers" might be my favorite thing on shmups and bullet grazing became my nemesis.

[@NCC-0000]

I’m glad to see a video focusing on the struggle of Shmups, as a “Not-So Beginner” myself I finally took the time to watch tutorials and learn how to play shmups and I have done some good 1CCs in a particular list of my favorite shmups, well, right now I have hit a “ceiling” with Trizeal Remix. Probably since it is similar to you, all other shmups I’ve cleared were on Mame, Super Nintendo, or Genesis emus where save states help us to overcome struggle fast, while this game is a X360 / Steam game which only allows you to select stages for practice and not specific points or bosses directly, also it has (A bit simple) rank. Btw also most of my shmups 1CC’d until now were Horizontal shmups but not Vertical shmups. It’s time to change a bit my initial approach so I can progress further, thanks for sharing your experiences!

[@Chinopolis]

Very cool video series, it's refreshing to see a beginner's journey spelled out like this. Also I personally recommend Touhou 11: Subterranean Animism if you are wanting to improve your fundamentals. It's definitely among the harder ones, but in the series that always changes things up I feel that this one focuses the most on pure fundamentals.

[@retrogamingknight]

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll definitely check it out.

[@Shmuptopia]

Another fantastic video man! I decided not to wait until the afternoon to check this out. Thoroughly engaging and refreshing hearing others talk about STGs. Keep it coming!

[@Shmuptopia]

I’d also like to add that you have a great approach to what can be a longer-term grind. It’s something that too few who are newer to the genre implement and part of why I feel people give up on themselves prematurely. I’m eager to hear more about how your SHMUP journey develops! Thanks for another so,I’d production!

[@retrogamingknight]

Thanks. I've only found out about your channel recently, but I've been enjoying the videos you've been making. I think giving up too quickly is one of the biggest challenges for people, not just with shmumps but with any challenging facet of gaming. People are too often looking for instant gratification, but in this case I'm truly looking to develop and improve my skills.

[@Shmuptopia]

@@retrogamingknight Couldn't agree more, we're used to the quick fix mentality and STGs are especially intimidating and punishing so they often push people away. It takes real courage to buckle down and submit to the (sometimes painful) journey but the rewards are great! Glad you've been enjoying some of my videos and please do keep me posted on your progress, otherwise I'll wait for new videos! Have a stellar day and thanks again!

[@BamdTheBamd]

i played touhou 4 for a year and a half without knowing how to savestate and the game has no practice mode. once i learned how to savestate i improved super quickly also fans have made a universal practice tool for every windows touhou games called thprac which is even better than the in-game practice modes

[@retrogamingknight]

No save states and practice mode sounds brutal. That's the toughest thing about going back to older games. Modern games and emulators have really spoiled us. I wasn't aware of thprac, I'll have to check it out.

[@sibbyeskie]

Right on! Glad to hear you stuck with it and got rewarded. The great thing about the genre is the reward ceiling keeps up with you as you improve and add nuance to your repertoire.

[@delsarcade]

Nice series! Thanks for documenting your journey, so we can try it too.

[@NTSTS0]

I randomly stumbled on this series and I'm really enjoying it. My only critique would be that I wish the videos were a bit longer and focused more on particular things you'd experienced, like an individual boss you enjoyed or had trouble with.

[@intenseretrogaming]

I've beaten Steel Empire on the 3DS on normal with 1 continue on the first try. The continue was spent during the last boss. Super lucky given how bad I still am at shmups. I wonder if the 3DS version is any easier.

[@gongryan2984]

Randomly watched this video and the previous shmup video of yours. really enjoyed the journey you are going through. nice video, please keep doing it!!!

[@Misanola]

Awesome video! Hope you do more like this. Shmups can't get enough love.

[@ashcliffeable]

Great series. I look forward to part 3 later in the year. As a fellow beginner, please share in the next video how long it takes to 1cc 2022 goals. Best of luck!

[@retrogamingknight]

Thanks. I'm interested in finding out how long it takes myself. Novice Ultra 1CC took somewhere around 15-20 hours, but Normal is an entirely different beast.

[@ashcliffeable]

@@retrogamingknight Oh yeah, a huge beast. You can do it. Did you practice with save states for Mushi or just load stages?

[@retrogamingknight]

@@ashcliffeable I'm playing on an Xbox 360, so I'm just loading stages. You can load from the beginning of the stage, or just practice the boss fight in the training mode.

[@Alfa_425]

This is really brilliant discussion about the fail, process, and mastering the shumps, since I've experienced this genre at 6 y.o.. IMO for the best slot for very beginning journey of shumps (Like easy mode) Raiden 2 is the best. It's not like danmaku styles but when it comes to "Colonel" difficulty, everything you'll see bullets are faster and faster, like you'll have 2s to see the bullets from up to down. Anyway, great video as well!

[@marcianoacuerda]

Not content with with a 1cc on futari, you’re going with no bombs. Props to you! I hope you make it!

[@retrogamingknight]

Thanks, but I may come to regret that declaration. No bombs has been quite difficult, especially in stage 5. I may have to settle with just a 1cc first and make no bombing a future goal.

[@letsblocking]

@@retrogamingknight Yeah, no bomb was definitely unrealistic, I wouldn't worry about it. I'm sure you'll get the 1CC soon though, rooting for you! Futari is such a cool game.

[@arrowviper8882]

Will be fun to follow your shmup journey!

[@soratheorangejuicemascot5809]

Of all the shmups I've played, the few things I didnt manage to properly learn are micro-dodging and bullet grazing. I wanna improve on that part but I feel like I have keep doing something wrong.

[@persona83]

As I commented in part 1, I'm far from being a good shmup player, but I love them. Something that has helped me a lot to improve my longevity in a shmup game is: USE THE FVCKIN' BOMBS! There's some kind of dumb honor code among shmup players to not use bombs but if the developers put them in the game I have good reasons to think they should be used. Of course, the better you get, the less you'll be using bombs but there's nothing cheap about using them specially on a screen with 10.000 bullets flying towards you.

[@retrogamingknight]

I think a lot of it has to do with bombs being a limited resource in many games. You want to save them for when you really need them or at strategic places, but then end up not using them when you're in a bad spot. My idea behind not using bombs is to learn how to get through each segment without that quick out, since bombs cancel all bullets on screen in Futari.

[@persona83]

@@retrogamingknight Yeah, I understand the no-bombs phylosophy is an additional challenge per se. But, for us beginners, I think we should use whatever is at our disposal, so we can have a progress and get the needed confidence to keep practicing until the point of no need to use them. Shmuptopia has a great video about the topic in this link: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gWa5ZoOtfatlgas check it out from 7 minutes onwards. I'm glad I found channels like yours, they renewed my passion for shmups! Thanks man!

[@geauxtama]

I love Dodonpachi Daifakktsu: Black Label's OST. What do you think about Crimson Clover? Or my personal favorite, Ikaruga? Any interest in doing a "set up" video? I play most shmups simply on my gaming laptop and a PS3 controller. Not ideal, but it is what it is. I would love like a list or links to "essentials" to level up your Shmups set ups from casual to "authentic" (if that makes any sense).

[@retrogamingknight]

Sorry about the late replay. I really enjoy Ikaruga, though I'm not very good at it right now. I've played Crimson Clover on the Switch, and I enjoy it but for some reason, I have trouble seeing certain bullets (specifically the purple colored ones). The "setup" video sounds interesting, I'll have to think about it. I'm not sure that I speak definitively about essentials from beginner to pro level difficulty since I'm a relatively a beginner right now.

[@TheBLBShow]

Cool series. Id love to see you go more in depth with the strategies. I played some SHMUPs but usually don't follow any strats. Also did you really get to the end of gradius 3 in 1cc? Gradius 3 always seemed impossibly hard to me. I used to think it was among the hardest videogames in general. But I've heard that there is more than enough shmups alone that are considered more difficult than GR3

[@retrogamingknight]

I have never been able to get through Gradius III 1CC. The best I can do without dying is getting to the stage where you speed through the narrow tunnels.

[@TheBLBShow]

@@retrogamingknight oh I forgot about that. I thought you meant the section at the very end. Still impressive. I can hardly get through the first two stages

[@canticledrawl]

Good series :)

[@retrogamingknight]

Thanks.

[@shmups_hobby]

Added to my "Shmup Beginners Playlist", check out all the videos here: kzbin.info/aero/PLwO70CJqSkyKRNQxkcjP63EpPB1Am8i0V

[@rafresendenrafresenden.1644]

cool