Led Zeppelin ll Vinyl Record Sound Comparison RL Hot Mix Sterling Sound Monarch Needle Drops. Killer

[@wickedexile4531]

Just semantics, but masterings are not a MIX. Masterings at specific louder levels are not necessarily advantageous. Dynamics are more important, the difference from the loudest to the softest passages really impact most in imparting a natural live feel to music. Mastering engineers have no way to MIX the tape that they are given to produce a lacquer. They can boost frequencies by equalization (not really a good thing) or limit the dynamics with compression (another bad thing) The original production by the recording engineer is the most important factor in ultimate sound quality.

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

@@wickedexile4531 Thanks for the technical play by play. I admit I know next to zero about recording engineering and record manufacturing, other than a lot of it happens at the mixing board. Nevertheless what you shared made complete sense to me. Whatever Ludwig did to this pressing, my ears are truly enjoy. Thank you for giving me a more clear understanding of what I should be focusing on regarding this pressing. Much appreciated. 👍🏽👍🏽✌🏽

[@wickedexile4531]

@@TheVinylRecordMission thank you for being receptive. The original recording engineers , Eddie Kramer and Andy Johns are the real geniuses behind the spectacular sound. Ludwig probably did very little to the master tape given to him thus allowing the full recording to shine in the manner you are hearing. Other masterings may have limited or equalized the tape for a safer transfer to lacquer. The magic that you hear is the immersion into the artistry recorded in those original sessions. It’s wonderful that you get such enjoyment from your music. Cheers, Tony

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

@@wickedexile4531 I pinned your comment because you touched on something that I failed to recognize. Your statement “The true genius behind the great sound of this iconic Zeppelin album goes to Eddie Kramer and Andy Johns.” That statement is powerful! Robert Ludwig merely shined a bright light on what was a masterpiece from the beginning. Much respect 🫡 for way of thinking. 💪🏽👍🏽👍🏽 Steve

[@wickedexile4531]

@@TheVinylRecordMission unfortunately today most of the credit seems to be directed at the mastering engineers. Kind of like crediting the picture framers in the louvre for the masterpieces within.

[@wickedexile4531]

@@TheVinylRecordMission thanks for being open to dialog

[@Universityofvinyl]

Found a NM one in a shop 3 yrs ago for $30! They had no clue! Astounding sound! 💯

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

Congrats on your find, Tim. Truly a massive sound quality to this pressing! ✌🏽

[@3dimensionsofmusic3D]

Its amazing back in the day when this was purchased how significant it would become 😊 Congratulations on the find 🎉. Love to hear it on my rig. 👍. Greg

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

Thank you, Greg. I greatly appreciate your kind words. It’s a real joy to listen to this baby! ✌🏽 Steve

[@dimebagdave77]

Many, many thanks Steve and Co! I live for videos of this caliber..✌️🤘

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

Too kind, Dave, too kind. You’re so appreciated brother. I’m glad you dig our videos as much as we love creating them for you! This one is especially enjoyable as I finally get to drop the needle on a banger RL Zeppelin ll! 🤘🏽🤘🏽💪🏽💪🏽✌🏽✌🏽

[@dimebagdave77]

​@@TheVinylRecordMission rocking horse Duder...

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

@@dimebagdave77 🤣👍🏽🤘🏽

[@ab3000x]

I know some people have scratched in “RL” to try to boost the price but you can’t fake the visual difference of the groove(s). I’d be happy to find one.

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

That’s downright sinister lolRL 🤣 My ears can hear the RL in this pressing.

[@SonicPVC]

The deadwax space is smaller on a genuine RL cut.

[@R3TR0R4V3]

Small deadwax on both sides, aggressive looking grooves.. It's pretty hard to mistake a RL for a non RL cut.

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

@@R3TR0R4V3 Those RL grooves are intense!

[@carjo512]

wow sound of the RL hot mix does jump out at you, .very nice .

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

Thanks Carjo.,The phone really doesn’t do it justice but you can still hear the difference. I’m glad you could hear it too. In person it’s really obvious. Thanks for checking it out. ✌🏽

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

Steve here with a correction thanks to a few of our knowledgeable viewers. It’s a ‘W’ in the dead wax not an ‘M’ as I thought and stated in the video. The Monarch stamp is in the circle just below the RL and SS stamps. The SS stands for Sterling Sound and the ‘W’ stands for Winchester Hybrid I was told.

[@SonicPVC]

Winchester is the little triangle with a stem symbol. I don't think the 'w' indicates Winchester.

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

@@SonicPVC Hi SonicPVC. I’ll have a look for triangle. There are so many things in the dead wax of this RL cut I never knew about. Thanks for the information.

[@R3TR0R4V3]

Yeah, I don't know about the Winchester thing either, but there's no mistaking a Winchester pressing.. You'll see a little stick figure looking riffle etched in the deadwax, like this "─◁"

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

@@R3TR0R4V3 I’ll look for that Winchester marking and report back. Thanks for the info. I greatly appreciate it. 👍🏽👍🏽✌🏽

[@R3TR0R4V3]

Wow, I'm really surprised you never had an RL before! I've only landed myself a copy recently on Discogs... It was always a grail for me. It's cut _super_ hot, probably the loudest record I have. Once you really study these, you can pretty much tell if it's an RL or not, just at a glance.. The aggressive looking grooves, and the small deadwax area, then of course the runout etchings. The next best thing is probably a George Piros "xxx" cut from around '77.. It's about 90% of an RL cut - sounds incredible. The "poor man's RL" they sometimes call it, super affordable. The copy I have is a Presswell. Anyway, I highly recommend trying to track down one of those too.. It's a lot fun comparing the two pressings. BTW - it's been a common misconception, but Ahmet Ertegun never had children, so maybe it was a niece or something that experienced the skip...who knows! Lol 🙂

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

@@R3TR0R4V3 Good to know all these specificities about the history of this amazing pressing. I will definitely take this great information you shared with me on my digging adventures. Thanks for setting the record straight about Ahmet. ✌🏽

[@jlouis4407]

What a beautiful record!

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

Thanks jlouis. I’m really lucky to have this now. Thanks for digging with us. ✌🏽

[@djjoeykmusic]

Great video Great find, enjoyed my brother

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@ronmartin4212]

I've had 2 in my collection-one current and past one are Specialty/Olyphant,Pa.plant copies(light lime green/deep red label hues,small font artist listing,similar to the Immigrant Song 45 label font.The A side has a narrow dead wax where the wind down groove runs 3 times around to the dead groove,side 2's is 3/4 in revolution to the dead groove.My first one skipped right at the 4th stomp/guitar call/response section.That section is heavy bassed,and that is really the key in noting the hotness of the whole program,and noting the difference in the Ludwig pressing,and Robert's vocals are more in your face on the Ludwig.

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

“Robert’s vocals are more in your face on the Ludwig” That is so spot on Ron! Plant literally sounds like he’s in my listening room. And Bonham’s drums!! So crystal clear and live sounding. Thanks for sharing about the copies you’ve had. ✌🏽

[@ronmartin4212]

Thanks,Steve!The stomps are where you really notice the deepness/power in the mix(and where the stylus will usually skip,like on my first copy,of course,I keep the tone arm tracking extremely light,though-keeps the grooves in good shape.

[@ronmartin4212]

The song I refer to with the stomps section I'm talking about and Robert's"in your face"singing I referred to, are on" Whole Lotta Love".

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

@@ronmartin4212 I haven’t experienced any skipping yet but I didn’t have time to go through every track in their entirety. It’s been a crazy week with the dig on Monday, work Tuesday, Wednesday and my daughter’s wedding tomorrow 😳 lol. I’ll sit and listen to the entire record when the dust settles and report back to you about Whole Lotta Love. The spot listening I did yielded no skipping thus far. Have a great weekend, Ron.

[@jerrywatt6813]

Mastering also involves the frequency response of the recording as you know dB is mostly just volume but can push the volume up in some midrange frequencies as well mastering is critical to the over all sound and can help or hurt a recording !

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

Great point, Jerry. Yes I wanted to see what the volume difference was in the natural state of each pressing. Reason being, some say we just need to turn the volume up on the none RL pressing and it will sound just as good as the RL. I don’t believe that to be the case. I heard a difference in more ways than just volume might create.

[@LouisMazzei]

A few years ago I was lucky to find a G+ copy for $40 at a record show, I was happy to find one just to hear what all the hype was about even in that condition, I went to another dealer right after that who had a VG for $160 but he gave it to me for 100 because I’d bought from him before, they sound amazing and I think the G+ might even have an advantage over the VG if not for the surface noise. I’ll soon be getting an ultrasonic cleaner, I’m looking forward to running them through it and listening to them again!

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

Hi Louis. How cool that you picked up 2 copies at one show! Nice! I’m having mine run through an $2,000 ultrasonic cleaning machine the Wednesday. I can hardly wait to hear it after a good cleaning. Good luck with yours too. ✌🏽 Steve

[@twofromthetrunk9932]

Yes you can hear the difference. That is something!!!

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

Glad you enjoyed it, Tony! Thanks 🙏🏽

[@jstevenj1]

More tonal depth / resonance / clarity on the RL version. Nice...

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

@@jstevenj1 I could hear all of those things. It is a great sounding record. I’m lucky to have found this one. Thanks for listening and sharing your thoughts.

[@Grooverski]

Awesome find Steve. Have no pleasure of owning one myself so I’m little jelly. 😂

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

Hi brother, Mariusz! I wish you could hear this on your incredible system! It blows my mind even on my nominal system. My video sound clips don’t do justice. It’s definitely a crown jewel in my Zeppelin collection. 🤘🏽🤘🏽✌🏽👍🏽💪🏽💪🏽🫶🏽 BTW my daughter is getting married tomorrow! 😃❤️💎

[@7BobbyGaylor7]

Hey Steve. Great snag!!! 😎

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

Thank you, Bobby! I know it wasn’t much of a sound clip but I hoped people could hear the difference in the tonality and vibrancy of those drums. Appreciate you, Bobby! ✌🏽

[@MikeGervasi]

I own an RL pressing. NOTHING touches it, not even the Page remaster. "The Lemon Song" lets you hear JPJ for the first time clearly. Also RL's fade outs are longer/later. You can visually spot his cut by the small deadwax space. In my own shootout the George Spiros cut comes in second.

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

Very cool, Mike. I’ll keep my eyes open for that Spiros cut. I love The Lemon Song! ✌🏽👍🏽👍🏽

[@jaycoleman8062]

I have an early German pressing that is RL side one and a later mix for side 2. The difference is quite noticeable. A also managed to get a VG+ RL 2 sided and paid $250.00 because the guy wrote his name on the label.

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

Hi Jay. WOW that’s a fantastic deal for a VG+ copy! Congrats on that. Interesting about the German pressing. Now that seems rare. Do you know if they press a lot of those one sided RL German pressings? Thanks for stopping by and sharing with us. ✌🏽 Steve

[@jaycoleman8062]

@TheVinylRecordMission I just looked and the cover is a darker brown. 40 037 and (SD 8236) are printed underneath it

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

@@jaycoleman8062 right on 👍🏽 thanks for the info.

[@PeterTea]

I wonder if they’ll ever rerelease the RL pressing. Someone get Jimmy on the bat phone. ☎️

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

🤣🤣 That should be on the top of Chad Kassem’s list of reissues

[@ConglomerationCat]

I hope they don't re release it in any form because it would take away the uniqueness and the special attachments it has.

[@jobeonetwothree2126]

I have a reel to reel copy of this with "The only way to fly" on the spine, what mix was used for it?

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

I know nothing about the reel to reel but maybe someone else in the comments will see your question and have some information for you. A reel to reel of this great album is really cool, especially I you have a nice set up. Congratulations on have such a cool piece of music history. ✌🏽👍🏽👍🏽

[@raymondbrucehansel3119]

My understanding is that the RL version was perhaps adding a lot more GAIN in the mastering. I'd be interested to know if you were to adjust the volume of each record was the same. Is there a noticeable difference? Let's say each record was playing at a nominal 90 db.

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

Hi Raymond. I will probably test the two out the way you mentioned to see if they sound the same. There is a noticeable difference in clarity and imaging and an incredible brightness and richness of depth on the RL cut that is not achievable on my other pressing. Thanks for submitting a great question. ✌🏽

[@raymondbrucehansel3119]

@@TheVinylRecordMission I do know this from my time spent in a recording studio. The way you EQ ANYTHING in the mastering process can have a HUGE difference in how the record sounds. To verify this you might want to talk to a professional recording engineer to get the skinny. But then again the recording engineer is usually removed from the process of mastering. Anyhow, check with a studio near you.

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

@@raymondbrucehansel3119 Appreciate the information, Raymond. Great contribution to the thread. Thank you 🙏🏽

[@jackstonehenge]

Do you happen to have a 1977 pressing? How do you think this compares to that? That’s what I have and it sounds good to me. curious about your opinion on this. Thanks.

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

Hi Jack. Sorry do not have a 77 pressing, not yet anything 😂. I’ll definitely be on the lookout for one. Thank you for the suggestion. 👍🏽👍🏽✌🏽✌🏽

[@jackstonehenge]

@@TheVinylRecordMission ok thx, I do have the 2014 reissue and I think the 1977 sounds better btw.

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

@@jackstonehenge Good to know. Thanks 🙏🏽

[@crazyprayingmantis5596]

It's sounds great but not that much better than the next best, especially for the price of a clean RL. A Piros gets you 94% there for 1/8th of the price

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

Great to know. I’ll keep my eyes open for GP. I like the sound of an 1/8 of the price. Quite a few others have recommended the GP pressing as well. We always appreciate your recommendations. ✌🏽👍🏽👍🏽

[@petermarchesi]

Hi, I believe You were thinking of Ahmet Ertegun the President of Aylantic Records.To dispel this "rumor" and report the facts Ahmet had No Children.Some people claim it was His Niece playing the record.However,Leila Ertegun was not born until 1979 Great story though.

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

Hi Peter. Thanks for the correction. I appreciate you informing us. Glad you enjoyed the story anyway 😂 Appreciate you, buddy.

[@petermarchesi]

@@TheVinylRecordMission No problem,please spread the word.I have owned and sold more than 50 of the Ludwig pressings.I have heard the story hundreds of times but found out none of it was true only by doing My own research If I state something I usually have the receipts to back it up Best of Luck PM

[@ronmartin4212]

Hey,Steve-Im transferring my Ludwig to CD I have a recorder.Transfer yours over,as well.If you have a stand alone CD recorder,or your computer.Great way to play it and keep the record preserved.

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

@@ronmartin4212 I can do that! Great idea, Ron! Thanks for the suggestion. 💪🏽👍🏽👍🏽

[@R3TR0R4V3]

I have a RL Monarch vinyl rip by PBTHAL.. it kicks major ass, def worth downloading. Dig around a bit, I'm sure you'll find it out there on the net.

[@ronmartin4212]

Great idea,too,with that Monarch vinyl rip,in comments below.Get a 3 way plug,with android phone jack on one end,two plug on the other,transfer that to the CD recorder.I do that ,now,with You Tube videos.

[@Stonecutter334]

My friend brought one over and we compared it to my 1977 reissue. Eh. Not big deal really. If you want to turn the bass up a tad you’re pretty much right there.

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

You are one of the very few who feel that way about this amazing mastering job and there’s nothing wrong with that. We all hear differently. It’s the same with food. We all taste something differently. I’m happy to trade you a 1977 reissue for your friend’s RL. What do you say? 😉

[@topekasub]

I gotta get me one of those!😂

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

You won’t regret it! 👍🏽👍🏽✌🏽

[@wobblinwheel]

I just looked at my album that I purchased in 1969. It has the "RL" on it and the "M", and an "A"...AND the album looks (and sounds) BRAND NEW! Is it "valuable"??

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

@@wobblinwheel Yes especially in that condition. That’s a real gem!

[@wobblinwheel]

@TheVinylRecordMission since I'm getting old (72), I'm willing to sell it, for the right price, say $3500-4000...anybody want it? Let me emphasize again: The album looks and sounds BRAND NEW! However, since I was a very young teenager at the time, I did write my name and date on the inner sleeve...I was very "anal" about taking care of my records 🤣🤣❗

[@wobblinwheel]

I also remember that since I had a "not so good" record player at the time, the extreme bass on this record actually blew up my woofers! Had to get better speakers...just to play this bad-ass album...👍

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

@@wobblinwheel Wish I had that kind of dough lying around. I’d buy it in a second.

[@wobblinwheel]

@@TheVinylRecordMission Make me an offer, if you change your mind...👍 After all, I "can't take it with me" when I leave this world...☠

[@JWD1992]

I am pretty, pretty sure that "W" in the deadwax means the blank lacquer onto which Ludwig cut the master was manufactured by Audio Devices, Inc. There are a lot of releases on Atlantic from this time which have that W denoting an Audio Devices lacquer. However, I admit that those pressings usually had lacquers that were then cut in-house at Atlantic Studios. Could Audio Devices have supplied blank lacquers to Sterling? Sure, but I did want to acknowledge that. I do not think it is a Winchester hybrid. Winchester used that "----

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

Hi JWD! That’s some incredible intel on the variants. More variants than Covid! 😂 I’m now aware of Audio Devices, Inc. I’m going to read up on them. It’s always great to geek out with you. ✌🏽👍🏽👍🏽

[@TullFreak]

I have two Zep II RL's in my collection. One is in G condition that has been "well loved" but it still kicks-ass. The surface noise gets drowned out because the RL pressing is so killer. The other is in VG+ condition which I don't play that often since I prefer to keep it as pristine as I possibly can. I have a bunch of other pressings of Zep II including the 1975 Monarch pressing George Pirros cut which has a very nice mastering (but the RL cut romps over it as well). For people who shy away from the huge asking price of the RL cut I would heartily recommend hunting down a Pirros cut. Finally, I will say that despite it's detractors, primarily because it is digitally sourced, I find that the 2014 Jimmy Page reissue to be a satisfying listen that has plenty of punch.

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

Congrats on the VG+ copy! It must sound amazing. I hope to find others on my digging adventures. Thanks for watching and commenting. ✌🏽

[@R3TR0R4V3]

The GP cut is _very_ good! I have one too, with a faint "xxx" in the deadwax, from approximately '77 or so. It's a nice, cheaper alternative to the RL for sure.

[@Stonecutter334]

I agree in fact the Page cut is the one i tend to play

[@dansharkey5218]

Steve am I correct that Bob Ludwig mastered both copies?

[@petermarchesi]

@@dansharkey5218 He only mastered the copies with an RLor LH (Lee Hulko) in the deadwax.Ludwig and Hulko both worked at Sterling Sound at the time,hence the ss in the dead wax as well.Bob Ludwig has a video here on youtube explaining this.

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

Hi Dan. I believe Lee Hulko mastered my other copy.

[@ronmartin4212]

I want to know,and tried to reach out to Mr.Ludwig, whether Ampex in Illinois received a copy of that mix tape for transfer to make the commercial reel,8-track and cassette copies.I had a clear reel tape(white label)Ampex and wondered whether it contained the Ludwig mix,too.

[@greghawkins229]

Sounded the same but I am half deaf

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

lol. No worries, Greg. It’s really tough to hear the difference in 5 seconds of play. In person you’d definitely be able to pick up on it. Thanks for stopping by. ✌🏽

[@MikeGervasi]

Ahmet Ertegun.

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

Thank you, Mike. ✌🏽

[@TheJoelSwaney]

I still prefer the UK press. The RL pressing to me is tiring... too much base.

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

Hi Joel. I’ve heard some say the bass come on too strong. I didn’t have that issue on my system. The bass was so tight and rich but not over powering. I’ll have to get myself a UK pressing. I keep hearing great things about it. Enjoy. Thanks for sharing! ✌🏽👍🏽👍🏽

[@TheJoelSwaney]

I sold my first RL after hearing a UK press. I would just say it is more balanced. When I listen to Zep 2, it is my go to copy even though I have an RL sitting next to it.

[@VIDSTORAGE]

Ahmet Ertegen executive made a terrible decision based on a kiddie turntable played by an 8 year old child ..Who knows how many were destroyed after the recall of the hot masters .We could be buying them for a whole lot less by now.. What a dork he was ..

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

@@VIDSTORAGE Agreed 👍🏽 Well said. ✌🏽

[@mad4vinyl802]

Ahmet is the most important music executive in the history of contemporary music. He was a champion of jazz and rhythm and blues and was instrumental in the careers of Ray Charles, Ruth Brown, Aretha Franklin, and many others. He is a giant in the industry. Obviously this was a misstep, but he is far from being a dork. With that being said, there is a notable difference. Amazing find, Steve.

[@VIDSTORAGE]

@@mad4vinyl802 I totally agree and know he is great historical figure of music ,I do like him...I wish he would have saved those hot mixed albums for a specialty item lp to be sold to people that had a great turntable instead of recalling them and destroying great LPs that were done so well ..No offence to Ahmet admirers..

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

@@mad4vinyl802 I thought being a dork was a compliment these days. Dork like nerd is now associated with intelligent swag and don’t forget, the geek in the streets is a freak in the sheets. Ahmet is a bad ass mofo! 🤣

[@slowpawstevet3676]

I have an original Atlantic UK copy of LZII, it sounds amazing, i cannot see how a so called "Hot mix" could be sonically superior to a non-hot mix really, can i not have my own hot mix just by turning up my volume control...? Snake oil alert...

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

I can’t argue with ears. Glad you enjoy your UK copy. I’m sure it sounds amazing as a do most UK pressings. Thanks for watching and commenting. ✌🏽

[@SonicPVC]

You have to hear it to believe it.

[@Texeq]

Is your non-RL a 'J" lacquer? Thats the most commonly seen post-RL version from the early 70's. Its so lame in comparison. Nearly 20 years ago I raved about the RL on audio forums along with a few other knowing audio hounds. The record sold pretty well on release and until a few years ago was readily 'findable.' Most were as you noted VG with many lesser and a few higher in grade. I sold probably 200 of them over the decades. Until recently I had a 'Peaches' crate full! Interesting to see the prices now. I had a brief online exchange with Ludwig many years. Interestingly he did not seem to recall that much hullabaloo or drama about the cutting, but the decision was made to reduce it. Lee Hulko cut a new lacquer as well as other engineers later. Ludwig cut three lacquers for the original release. Metal parts were then made and shipped to several plants including Monarch, Presswell, and Capitol records. Columbia records also cut or received a set which are denoted by their own code using a numeral and letter i.e. 1A. I found that even a crackly, hissy, tik laden copy was more fun to listen to than a NM common copy.

[@TheVinylRecordMission]

Hi Tex! I should have examined the other copy closer before doing the video but I was so doggone excited to make the video before I left for my daughter’s wedding I failed to examine the dead wax thoroughly and research everything. But I knew I had you to fall back on 😂. I knew you’d be there for me buddy with all the right answers. Now that you mention it and I recall, I believe there is an LH in the dead wax of the less desirable cut. WOW I’m impressed with the amount of RLs you had and sold. I going to give mine a good ultrasonic cleaning. Thanks again for always being so informative. We greatly appreciate you! ✌🏽

[@ronmartin4212]

And don't forget,which Bob did too,that Specialty in Olyphant Pa.received metal parts,as well.Ive had 2 copies,one is my current one.Pretty nice,too.Im.in Allentown,Pa.so it shows up more here.