You're Wrong About COPPA (Real Law Review)

[@LegalEagle]

⚖️What do you think about COPPA? ✏️Make copyright work for you with CopyrightCourse bit.ly/2Yt5p6M

[@alex_ad111]

Love your videos 😄

[@thispersonhere7538]

I feel like COPPA won't affect all of us like people think it will.

[@FreeminderXIII]

Dude , what about the Elon Musk's case?

[@alvinwhitehead1069]

Can someone send u fan mail?

[@DCMarvelMultiverse]

Would you take a case on the behalf of creators if this is challenged? There are too many maybes and ifs here. I don't want a kid audiences. i don't know who sees my channel. I wish I could select the ads i want to prove that.

[@prim16]

Can we all just take a moment to thank LegalEagle for making a full-length video explaining this? 49 minutes is a pain in the butt to watch, but it's sure of a lot better than reading the entire COPPA document, interpreting it like a lawyer, and gathering real-world context to draw inferences.

[@Samanosuke1138]

Primaski sustained.

[@robbiewalker2831]

Primaski Thankfully, FTC took this into account.

[@aikifox85]

Agreed! Thank You!!!!

[@melissagrenier2200]

@@TechnoGeek18023 That's true but it's nice to have it explained. I read through the whole thing but there were some things I misinterpreted. I read "actual knowledge" as "knowledge of the possibility that there might be children watching" for some reason. As opposed to "knowledge of the fact that there are children watching". So this video helped clear that up.

[@Lionheartwolf135]

I actually liked the length. If this was a pain in the butt to watch maybe your watching the wrong channel...

[@morningcoffee3121]

"I'm 10 and I want to be a lowyer like you" LegalEagle: *sweat intensifies*

[@Navarp]

I came to the comments just to post this.

[@Firegen1]

Why would he panic? He's work is not inappropriate by and large and is not intended to engage children in the first place. This is a weird joke.

[@mikeharris1987]

@@Firegen1 because then LegalEagle would have "actual knowledge" that children are watching its videos

[@Firegen1]

@@mikeharris1987 Even then as he says KZbin may well suspend the account. He could he take active steps to avoid such a situation by ignoring the comments which he tends to do unless they state the term objection. He could make it policy in his content. If he did and someone went "Objection! I'm 10" there may still be actions he could take to show he is being actively trolled by those who wish to put his work into disrepute. If I remember rightly he's done this before with someone who was a jackass and copyright claimed his videos.

[@codrinmoisa4290]

I mean... Legal Eagle kinda uses some complicated language and terms, and even when transformed into actual human words from that legal gibberish, I don't think a child could stop and think about what he's/she's hearing since they just won't understand anything.

[@LexieAssassin]

So, lemme get this straight... > Channel run by an actual lawyer > Rando: *Files bogus copyright claim against channel* Sounds like the legal equivalent of stepping out in front of a bus or something.

[@rajaamsyhar1120]

Legal Eagle: It appears that you have chosen death

[@musicmaster417]

Wait? What happend?

[@Nerazmus]

Yep, legal equivalent of invading Russia during winter.

[@HovektheArtist]

Thats like going to a fight and giving your gun to the other gun

[@giantmastersword]

And yet, under the current system, they can very easily get away with it

[@JediMasterBaiter]

*Here's* *why* *your* *channel* *wasn't* *approved* *for* *monetisation:* • Content deemed suitable for children

[@frankg2790]

Yeah, KZbin is basically throwing content creators under the bus instead of actually fixing the problem.

[@Christopher_TG]

@@frankg2790 Honestly, based on the language of the law and regulation, I don't know what KZbin is supposed to do other than what they're doing.

[@LarryInNM]

@@Christopher_TG Which is the problem with oppressive laws, the law makes the provider become the enforcer or else.

[@neurofiedyamato8763]

We get demonetized for having mature adult topics and now we going to get demonetized for having safe children content. You just can't win.

[@pokemonlore4959]

Christopher G stop demonetizing stuff for cursing and other stuff for children.

[@zephy64]

The more I hear about this the less I think law makers understand how the internet works.

[@TheItzal11]

They never have

[@atlantahunter4401]

To be fair this law was written in the 90s. The deeper issue is that our legislative system just isn't set up to handle something that changes as fast as the Internet does. A situation not aided by the fact that most lawmakers are in their sixties and, yes, do not understand the internet.

[@GaussianEntity]

It's that and the fact that we have been slow to update the laws to better fit the era.

[@Junosensei]

@@atlantahunter4401 - Laws have been struggling to keep up with capitalism in general. Late stage capitalism is a mess and big business has incentive to influence politics, including against regulation. Loopholes are the game and anyone attempting to close those loopholes can be bought with money. Any loopholes already closed can be open, or alternatives can be found. Capitalism is successful not because it is humane, but because it is so flexible. The internet has grown as a result of capitalism, for better or worse. Thus, it follows that the law has struggled to keep up with it like the rest of the markets.

[@stevethepocket]

Well, how _does_ it work, then? Because from what I can tell, the internet is just total anarchy. It's kind of a big ask for a government to let it stay that way.

[@LegalEagle]

Apologies for typos. And there are fewer graphics than usual because this monster turned out to be 50 minutes long. I really wanted to get this out by December 9th so there was still time to comment with the FTC. Please make your voice heard!

[@user-ei9ns9hq6b]

OK boomer

[@simonkimberly6956]

We forgive you.

[@chrisedwards3866]

One technical part that you didn't cover: if KZbin can't make a cookie identifying a computer user as a child, how do they remember that the user is a child? They would need to age-gate every visit to the website and app. They would need to make non-unique cookies, which they could do. Those would still need age and nationality info.

[@daltonio6001]

Anthropogenic Climate Change is a BOOMER Fairytale that doesn’t even make sense with his comment

[@taotuhao5969]

@@user-ei9ns9hq6b When you are one of the progenitors of the "Ok Boomer" comment, then it's use is possibly funny. Otherwise, you are just jumping on the bandwagon of mediocrity. The phrase is lazy.

[@bobstevenson3130]

"KZbin is also going to develop an AI to determine if content is child directed or not" *oh no*

[@lars1228]

I cant wait for a repeat of the demonetization thing wherein they would sometimes (and way too often) wrongly flag videos for demonetization.

[@yodoodler5951]

Big uh oh

[@DCNRS90YT]

That's a horrible idea, considering how dumb the Ai is for KZbin's site.

[@sayvionwashington1939]

Keep in mind that the AI and bots were what got them in this position in the first place

[@MohdTaufiq91]

Seriously, why can't KZbin just hire humans?

[@Kay_213_]

The people with authority who think animation automatically means it’s directed towards children have clearly never been on the internet

[@mennograafmans1595]

Indeed. Animation is not a genre or something like that. It's a style like live-action. What is portrayed is importent, not how it's made. Sadly the 80ties cartoons have ruined the image of animation in the west. But things are turning around with the rise of geek-culture. Shows like Southpark have kept it from falling to far, but Rick & Morty, Bojack horseman and the rise of anime are bringing animation back. Sadly Disney is throwing it away with their remakes. Maybe we should make a #makehentaigreatagain or something to show those older folks animation is not only for kids ;)

[@superbeltman6197]

Law makers are affecting people they don't understand 85% of the time

[@superbeltman6197]

@@mennograafmans1595 I enjoy corrections in title association but I'm really not feeling M.H.G.A.

[@catsatemycookies8988]

Nani!!!

[@ghostfacegirl180]

Or heard of South Park.

[@Treblaine]

KZbin has entered the special kind of hell where all content must be simultaneously kid friendly (no swearing, nothing sexy, nothing dangerous, etc) yet despite sanitizing it for small kids it also cannot be of any appeal to them. AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

[@Gooberpatrol66]

Cool, maybe the internet will return to being stuffy and academic like it was in the beginning.

[@orange_sauce5951]

@@Gooberpatrol66 wait, what? The internet was never NOT a den of villainy, sure it took us a while to get one pornographic gif, but we did it anyways.

[@esyphillis101]

Nathan Dehnel You should be careful what you wish for.

[@Fauxassassin]

Even if they made it 18+ so you could swear and have sexual content kids would still lie and still get there data collected

[@Gooberpatrol66]

@@orange_sauce5951 I'm sure they posted CP on arpanet and told each other to kill themselves.

[@Wouldyoukindly4545]

Legal Eagle: "Obviously this channel is not child directed" ...Bold of you to assume that.

[@thejohnlocke]

And guess who determines what is child directed and what is not.....?

[@danielfay8963]

Children these days are studying law at earlier and earlier ages

[@operationlockout5774]

How would even children who are not yet Stock Brokers or Lawyers yet can comprehend this? Lots of schooling made for them while they go to the next grade level.

[@nuttypotatoe1210]

@@danielfay8963 in these days Kids are capable of learning anything they are interested in.

[@seanbyrne5313]

lol. it's a fact that teachers use this channel in middle school. I wonder what % of this video is watched by children.

[@jose41811]

KZbin: *about to slam coppa on legaleagle* LegalEagle: *piano starts playing*

[@Saikoes]

I, Legaleagle, have a dream!

[@chimichangas1432]

legalegale?

[@gaiusjuliuspleaser]

@Ordonity OI ORDONITY

[@thesecondguywhoknowsthings7154]

Your lack of knowledge on how to spell eagle triggers me especially since you did twice

[@aanesijr]

KZbin: Why do I hear boss music?

[@jacquelinemackie4395]

Children can lie about their age and anyone can lie about the following; "I have read and accepted the terms of conditions"...

[@tommyt7555]

As someone who has worked in protocol bureaucracy hell, I can promise you the incentive is not the children. It’s not really money either. It’s just covering their ass and “doing their job.” So much of this crap is just “I’m doing something.” That’s why the implementation of so many of these initiatives is so trash. The idea comes from someone trying to appease the masses, then is implemented by people who could not care less other than appeasing their higher up’s. It doesn’t have to be good. Just good enough to convince their boss come review time.

[@TheDawnofVanlife]

Playing devil’s advocate, I think there is a difference between a 5 year old and a 12 year old. A five year old that just wants to watch thing with bright colors is likely not lying about there age and there may be targeted ads at kids based on very true profile issue. Like family vlogging appeals to kids cause kids are often in them. This often corrupted targeting has nothing to do with necessarily swearing or what we would consider ‘adult’ or ´naughty’ content that a kid (usually on the older end) lies to access.

[@xxGreenRoblox]

Do not forget this "I accept the terms of service."

[@HiddenAgendas777]

Unintended consequence: a Minecraft creator, leaves, a Sky Rim creator stays. This repeats. An animation that is gross, sexual or violent - not aimed at kids. Animation that is cute and wholesome - at risk for being aimed at kids. Result: KZbin becomes less wholesome and kids still come here.

[@Yora21]

Reminds me of: "Rare bird is bothering nobody. Bird gets protected, farmers are not allowed to work on the land close to its nesting site. Now farmers want to get rid of it."

[@Siaman668]

Did you watched the video? Like at all? He covered the animation section. It isn't going to picked for kids just because it hits some factors. It will be individually reviewed.

[@truthiseverything9511]

@@Siaman668 "Individually reviewed" by whom? We all know how well these social media review process go.

[@Siaman668]

@@truthiseverything9511 it's the government. This has happened before. Google the court cases for coppa. There not gonna judge a video because it has let's say 6 out of nine factors.

[@userJohnSmith]

The original comment is still accurate. The incentive (financial) to produce wholesome kids' content like the "little snowflake" song or "Lucas the spider" will be greatly reduced. Going viral will be more difficult (baby shark) and pouring tons of hours into a well produced short is less likely to pay off (Lucas or the song I mentioned) even if kids and parents love what you've made. Educational content is also a mixed bag and depending on FTC whims some channels could take a hit because some videos walk the line between both worlds. This all means the good wholesome stuff my son watches will be less likely to be produced. It also incentivises modifying otherwise PG content that isn't specifically kids oriented and making it more mature just to be safe. Pretending like this isn't a bad thing for kids content in the near and mid term is ridiculous.

[@deathhog]

Considering that the personalized ads are almost never accurate for me, it's amazing that they even try.

[@Woffenhorst]

Considering advertisers are willing to spend up to 10 times as much for personalized ads, I disagree. It may not work for you specifically, but it clearly works well enough to warrant that cost.

[@HollyAndMistletoe]

Exactly. I get a lot of "stop smoking" products and I have never smoked. And "male enhancement" when I am female. And airline ads when I don't fly. And Disneyland/Disney World/Disney Cruise ads showing excited young kids. My kids are 37 and 40. And I have no grandkids. Same with all those goofy toys, games, and clothing for very young kids.

[@goldstandard2039]

@@HollyAndMistletoe for some reason.I constantly get womens underwear advertised at me despite mostly looking up videos like this, or things that are comic book related.

[@magica3526]

@@goldstandard2039 its not just your KZbin activity

[@lostcolonyforge5792]

They think I’m old enough for alcohol

[@demonmachinegunner]

Part of me can't wait to see Happy Tree Friends getting mislabeled as child-oriented.

[@weirdoneontheblock]

I want it to happen at this point, and have the child of a Karen see it while the Karen is in the room.

[@michaellin4553]

Perfect. Payback for the copyright BS they put creators through.

[@lemonlite_]

Yet, as aforementioned, subject matter and such can overpower other factors, and will be unlikely to be marked as such.

[@CathrineMacNiel]

Uh, how about SaladFingers ? Or Llamas with Hats? That would be fun!

[@0ut1and3r]

😂😂😂😂😂

[@shannonolivas9524]

This makes me worry that channels with "family friendly" language will start swearing like sailors to avoid that "directed at children" qualifier.

[@tealkerberus748]

Shannon Olivas a win for all Aussie channels. We can swear like a bloody Australian and win out. Of course, Aussie kids won't be put off by that, they hear worse in the schoolyard, but it should work to fend off the yanks.

[@qrxmes2073]

Teal Kerberus HAHA I LOVE THIS

[@4TheRecord]

You can choose yourself to make all videos not child friendly. That's what I had to do rather than sit there and go through every video.

[@SeanWheeler100]

@@4TheRecord But if you have a video that you didn't bother to check when you mark your entire channel as not child friendly, and that video happened to be child friendly, the FDA is going to fine you over 42 thousand dollars. If you can't afford that fine, you have to check and make sure you don't have any videos that qualify as child friendly.

[@PetriBass]

@@SeanWheeler100 In addition to this, KZbin will still demonetize videos for that kind of content. So content creators are essentially forced into a narrow box where they can't create kid-friendly or kid-unfriendly content. Just another good product the government is killing off in the name of "protecting the children"... (that, in the end, will only harm children when creators create more kid-unfriendly content and kids watch it anyway).

[@xileets]

As someone who studied constitutional law, before steering away from law-school, my initial response was "IS this even constitutional?" Glad you brought up that point. =)

[@Robocline]

Critical Hit my gut says no. It has already had a chilling effect on the 1st amendment. People have already quit KZbin in fear of what may happen to them when their constitutionally protected content gets on the radar of the FTC.

[@aarongoddard2642]

It is absolutely unconstitutional

[@sandylief3024]

@@aarongoddard2642 THAT DDONT STOP TRUMP

[@Hhhhhh-sz9ud]

The having data collected on your behalf part is very sketchy.

[@IkeOkerekeNews]

@@Robocline It is constitutional.

[@Ostentatiousnessness]

I feel like the reason no one’s done a deep dive into the language itself is because none of us are lawyers like you who can read it and translate it into a text readable by humans. Thank you for the in-depth look! [Edit: Oh my, what a can of worm’s I’ve opened up]

[@HellecticMojo]

It's also because the language is actually kinda meaningless because KZbin's doing it via automated algorithm rather than case by case and it's hard for content creators to regulate the algorithm since their content can get flagged regardless whether they label it or not. The actual enemy isn't Congress or any agency, but youtube itself for putting the burden of self regulation on content creators while giving them zero management tools.

[@phoenixnoire2435]

Isn't it curious laypeople aren't legally allowed to understand the law but we're still expected to follow it?

[@RobotDCLXVI]

Why does everyone say that? Lawyers are human too. I can read legal briefs and legislation and perfectly comprehend it and I didn't go to law school.

[@supersizesenpai]

@@RobotDCLXVI then you are a rare creature or a liar.

[@cizd]

A lot of creators did little research and there were "lawyers" that looked at this in the past, but I have to question if they're actually lawyers or alternatively how good they're at their job.

[@Icalasari]

"There could be a channel out there that hits all the checkboxes but still is for adults" Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss. Animated, bright colours, uses cartoon stock sound effects, even has famous voice actors like the one for Invader Zim ...And it's adult as hell

[@Herowebcomics]

"...And it's adult as hell." Literally!

[@beeble2003]

“Famous voice actors” isn’t a COPPA checkbox. To hit all the COPPA criteria, the voice actors would have to include both child celebrities and celebrities who specifically appeal to children.

[@CaseyDplays]

And the first song isn't really bad for kids. The rest of it is of course.

[@gentleshark9209]

@@beeble2003 Idk what thing you on but I'm pretty sure invader Zim is pretty appealing to children

[@Mr.Plant1994]

Hentai Heaven checks all those boxes

[@ojtheaviator1795]

When I was around 12, I remember watching educational content on KZbin. Think stuff in the style of Cody's Lab or Nile Red. If all this applied back then, I doubt that would have happened. Imagine if all libraries had a system in place that kept kids inside the children section, and didn't allow them to use library cards. No kid could check out a book, and no kid would be able to look up a fact in a book from the "adult" section of the library if curious about something. Now, also assume that adults cannot check out kids books, even if they have a library card. No kid could bring a kids book home, regardless of adult endorsement. This is effectively what KZbin is doing. KZbin is such a diverse platform. Lumping the educational channels in with "Peppa Pig" and "Call of Duty" disregards the intelligence of many children, and keeps them from accessing content that allows them to grow in their knowledge.

[@literallyanangrymoose7717]

That's actually massively well thought out.

[@TheDawnofVanlife]

I don’t think this is 100% true. Take into account R rated movies. Or even PG 13. A supervisory adult can decide to allow the ´child’ to access said content. It’s more legal parental controls then anything. That being said, COPPA is certainly complicated when it comes to something like KZbin. It’s pretty easy to content sort things in a library. Harder with videos.

[@GoldenPenHD]

This sounds like doing my taxes. I have to find out how much I owe to the government, and if I get that number wrong I go to jail.

[@Strideo1]

Nah. Unless your return is blatantly fraudulent the IRS is just gonna go after your money rather than trying to put you in jail.

[@johndimarzio8966]

this is way more complicated. And more importantly, permits a subjective review of a third party to levy thousands of dollars in fines. Additionally it requires content creators to basically gamble on a completely ambiguous regulation and hope it doesn't get picked off. Pretty scary government overreach here.

[@exantiuse497]

How many people have actually gone to jail for mistakenly miscalculating their taxes? I don't mean tax evasion, like making a million dollars and "by accident" saying you made 50 000, but people actually making mistakes. Where I live the procedure is simple: you make a mistake and pay too little, you must pay the missing amount, and I imagine it's the same in America

[@johndimarzio8966]

@@exantiuse497 people should not* go to jail for simply making a mistake on their taxes. They simply would need to pay the difference. Now if it is proven you KNEW beforehand, then you go to jail for fraud.

[@exantiuse497]

@@johndimarzio8966 Do you mean people shouldn't go but they do and it's wrong, or they shouldn't as in they don't go?

[@MrMcBlamEntertainment]

So if we're considered site operators, then there are responsibilities that we have in order to be COPPA compliant. KZbin as a platform does not supply the tools or information we need in order to for us to adhere to these responsibilities. We don't have access to any of the information collected, so we can't even do what would be required of a site operator to be COPPA compliant. We can't modify KZbin's site in any way shape or form. What have unreliable age analytics information (mine in particular has been stuck on the 34-44 all year and that can't be right) and even then, the analytics do not go below the age of 13. So without proper factual black and white information and without the ability to perform the responsibilities required by COPPA to be complaint if we come across viewers under 13, how is it just to sue a content creator? The "fish in a barrel" statement could be true under this lens because the FTC could potentially be going after people who can't defend themselves. Isn't this the equivalent of suing a grocery store employee because the grocery store facility does not adhere to some building code when the employee didn't know about the issue, nor does the employee have the means to fix it ? Are not content creators in the same boat? Lack of information and lack of a means to rectify the situation? Now I understand that KZbin will still terminate channels and mark videos as children's content (resulting in the actions you've specified) at their leisure. KZbin reserves that right and that has been made clear to content creators. Whether we like it or not, it's "their" platform (kudos if you see what I was getting at there). However I'm failing to see how suing content creators is just. I'm not going to say they won't, because anyone can sue anyone (doesn't mean they'll win), but how is this just? How is this not a content creation deterrent? If I'm missing something or oversimplifying something, please correct me.

[@onijester56]

There's a different between "Just" and "Legal". As you point out, KZbin doesn't provide content-creators the information or tools needed to ensure that their created content complies with COPPA. However, when KZbin got hit with the charge they came to an agreement that allows them to say THEY are compliant in what THEY do...which pushes non-compliance onto the people creating the content and not KZbin as the host of the content. ----- In fact, your example of "Suing a grocery store employee because the store doesn't adhere to some building code"... If we keep it, then the specific code violated is an overt risk to integrity...say, exposed wiring or a water-line break or mold and mildew. And then the grocery store employee CAN BE blamed for not notifying anyone to something that reasonably threatens the safety of others. What the grocery store would do is penalize the employee, up to and including termination, since the grocery store is responsible for fixing the issue. But what KZbin will do is say "We followed the agreement. We are not liable." and even if the FTC charges KZbin as a whole, KZbin will just hand the charges off to the creators that incited the charges. KZbin already fixed the issue and paid the fine, so the only thing left is the 'employee' being penalized for their actions.

[@allenfortenberry653]

@@onijester56 Problem is, the employee had no way of actually knowing about the water-line break. The store can say that it is the employee's responsibility to deal with it all they like, but if they do not provide the tools needed to access and fix the break, then it is the store's fault. You should not blame the employee for something like that, especially after they have noted their lack of access and requested that the store give them the proper tools to follow the regulation multiple times

[@nnelg8139]

@@onijester56 but content creators aren't employees to KZbin; in fact they're closer to clients. If a leased building has faulty wiring, fixing that is the responsibility of the landlord.

[@samsadowitz1724]

@@nnelg8139 the grocery store argument still stands if the store's general manager doesn't own the space. If faulty wiring (or some other violation) is spotted by a consumer or employee, the store manager must make requests to the landlord for repairs. If repairs arent ordered/made, the store manager is out of options to resolve the issue.

[@MrMcBlamEntertainment]

@@nnelg8139 and Allen have really expanded on the point I'm trying to make. Thank you both, and thank you for your reply Anthony. I understand what KZbin is trying to do and that they're going to try to wipe their hands of it, as I said, they will likely delete a bunch of videos, etc. etc.. However, I don't see how we can be defined as site operators if we don't have the ability to perform site operator functions, specifically to be compliant with said law. I would argue that content creators are users of the platform, not operators. In the same way someone can post a video to Twitter, we can post the videos here but Twitter users aren't considered Twitter site operators. This seems like a mislabeling due to a lack of understanding of how the platform works.

[@klikkolee]

26:40 "Children can simply lie" I don't understand how any aspect of COPPA can work if lying children puts the site in the hot seat. I also don't understand how the FTC can forbid the age gate given the wording of the mixed-audience exception criteria

[@thevioletskull8158]

The ftc have a general aduince option.

[@NsanityGamez]

@@thevioletskull8158 KZbin does not add that option though unless that falls under not for kids.

[@ScooterinAB]

It takes two to tango. Kids lied about their ages. That's on the kids. KZbin knew they were lying, collected their data anyways, and then bragged about it. That's KZbin's fault. That's why they were fined.

[@jonasstrzyz2469]

@@ScooterinAB Oh, I agree, but based on my understanding of COPPA a content creator could be fined regardless of their knowledge or lack thereof that the are collecting data from children. Though I could be wrong.

[@ScooterinAB]

@@jonasstrzyz2469 That is definitely a concern. There are channels that are going to have to pump the brakes on community engagement, but there is a concern about creators being unaware of children in their audience. When I wrote to the FTC, I explained that KZbin needs to be the "operator," not the creators because it is KZbin and collects and controls that data. A creator should not be penalized for something they are unaware of and have no control over. It's unlikely to happen, as the FTC has said that can't and won't be going after minor offenses, and they have only acted on COPPA a few times and for major offenses, but that line dies need to be drawn and made clear.

[@shikurokasuki5388]

*KZbinKids: Exists* *KZbin: Let's pretend we didn't make that*

[@goldstandard2039]

Genuinly I don't understand the point of making a kid centric version of your website and then going ahead and trying to make your main website more child friendly as well. Seems quite redundant imo.

[@shikurokasuki5388]

@@goldstandard2039 Ikr. It's like they are trying to make them the same. What's the point making the other website?

[@OmegaX5000]

@gold standard It's because KZbin Kids is a total flop. As far as I'm aware, they only advertised it when it debuted and forgot about it afterwards.

[@dancorps1388]

Also the same content on YT kids is also on YT main. So it has to be treated the same.

[@TheAsvarduilProject]

@@goldstandard2039 It's almost like YT Kids was just a transparent attempt to get around COPPA or something.

[@MrCptjsparrow]

Objection: Careful Legal Eagle. My 19 month old was in the room while watching this video and kept yelling “Ironman!” This could be considered child-directed due to your vague likeness to Tony Stark lol

[@Muzer0]

Thanks to your sharing this anecdote, this presumably now means that Legal Eagle now has "actual knowledge" that a child has watched the video and therefore has to mark this video as child directed? What a stupid law...

[@SevenDayGaming]

@@Muzer0 Yes, this is the most destructively ignorant regulation of all time. What do you expect, though, from an internet regulation made in 1998 by people already in their 70s? They knew nothing about the internet, I doubt most of them had ever even USED the internet in 1998, or even a personal computer for that matter.

[@exantiuse497]

Muzer0 What about mixed audience exeption?

[@erickhernandezcrispin9671]

Seven Day matpat in his video said something about that saying that even now, people making laws dont even have a phone xD

[@BanditLeader]

@@erickhernandezcrispin9671 the old men either dont have a phone, or they still have a flip phone

[@alejandrocastellanos3936]

well, "i'm baby" got a whole lot more dangerous

[@ZenFr0g]

So did the "I am 12 and what is this" meme.

[@Fuzzycuffsqt]

@@ZenFr0g thank joke has been bannable on sites that enforce COPPA for about a decade now. Sucks that YT may go that route =/

[@cosmicmelon9305]

"Johnny Johnny" "Yes COPPA?" "Advertising towards children?" "No COPPA." "Telling lies?" " NO COPPA!" "Open your account!" *LEWD LAWSUIT NOISES*

[@shalice7784]

Why does this comment not have more likes

[@MultiTripleRainbow]

@Jastin Guzman this one

[@MASTEROFEVIL]

400th like

[@trinitech6868]

lol smart XD

[@voidgirl7811]

XD

[@onyx8231]

I'm tired if always having to _"Think of the children."_ That's what parents are for. If children are lying about their age, it's the parent's fault.

[@AStageForTheKingdom]

Or it's the fault of the child doing the lying. I know we as a society don't like to acknowledge that though.

[@kharnthebetrayer8251]

Children will always lie about their age online. Unless the parent makes the account for them, and the kid does not know how to make an account themselves (which is bassically no-one now), the child can make an account saying they're older. Which, every kid does. I always set my age to be 18 when I was younger. Because I knew that there was stuff that I liked that wasn't allowed to be seen if my account was under 16 or 18, so I just lied and watched them. Frankly, people need to stop freaking out about 'Think of the Children' Call of Duty is a 16/18+ game (depending on several things), but play any of them online, and you'll hear 10 year olds playing it. Kids are messed up, and are quite happy to run around shooting people in the face in a game, hearing swears, etc. And its not something that messes kids up forever. Frankly, with the amount of access to information, children are going to see shit that parents might prefer they don't. People get internet-savvy very young, and it's not hard to change safe search settings

[@5678sothourn]

Parents can be idiot, which is why CPS exists. This is CPS for the internet

[@lilkaicrazo6386]

Same

[@bitset3741]

@@kharnthebetrayer8251 The problem is when personally identifiable, and physically identifiable information is acquired by people or companies will use that info to steal identities, sign kids up for credit cards, predators going and finding kids to attack etc. Coppa isn't just about KZbin, and what kids might see online.

[@dmkatelyn]

I'm suddenly very concerned "I'm twelve and what is this" will go from meme to weapon. Also, what does the FTC actually think is acceptable validation of age?

[@kingcobalt4175]

Katelyn Kivel Textbook Catch 22: Data can’t be collected from children, but proving otherwise needs data collection.

[@Breadcrochets]

I imagine it’s the same as the requirements for parental permission: forms faxed or mailed to the FTC office or by in person appointment

[@chrisxd146]

@Katelyn A Blockbuster membership card.

[@cdgonepotatoes4219]

Worst that could happen is the user saying that gets banned from the channel by the owner themselves if they read said comment. You still can't report a video for improper rating or at least I have yet to notice that, false copyright remains as the biggest weapon to be used improperly.

[@s1r285]

Fr, 12 yrs old is considered a kid in the US, but the majority of FPS games are made up of 12 yr olds... so are FPS games kids games? They have guns tho...

[@trevordavison4078]

Dont hug me I’m scared is definitely the example of... “checks all 10 boxes but is certainly not for children”

[@tbana2396]

What's your favorite idea? Mine is being creative.

[@SSirloiNN]

@@tbana2396 Change your profile. Green is not a creative colour.

[@creppersaurusrex2300]

@@SSirloiNN nice reference

[@CemeteryDriveClown]

Creppersaurus Rex *OH MY GOD YOU NEED TO HELP ME I LOST THE LOG AND IM LOOKING EVERYWHERE AND I NEED IT TO MAKE PIE, DO YOU KNOW WHERE THE LOG IS????*

[@andoryuubushido7191]

@@tbana2396 I might paint a picture of a clown!

[@protoclone138]

See, this is why I wanted to see this channel tackle this topic. He knows how to dispense info without histrionics, unlike other channels.

[@KontrolStyle]

me too, im glad he found time to do it. we thank you, guy who loves to read.. :)

[@LordOfSilense]

And as far as he's said, COPPA won't really affect people in any meaningful way- it's up to KZbin themselves to have to act properly.

[@rubyy.7374]

Sile Animus Problem is that with KZbin being KZbin, they’ll find some way to screw it up.

[@syntaxusdogmata3333]

@@LordOfSilense Ugh, God help us!

[@agiammarco94]

I saw another Lawyer channel talking about it but he went into histrionics

[@jaketurner8109]

So how do I use this information to stop seeing ads for Raid: Shadow Legends

[@creppersaurusrex2300]

Simple: Stop using YT

[@errorlooo8124]

vanced.app and ublock origin

[@Registered_Simp]

@@errorlooo8124 Sponsorships would like to know your location

[@mercimande8766]

And those weird puzzle games where a guy is drowning in sharks

[@chicharon8171]

Sponsorblock

[@michaelwinter742]

Impact of COPPA on KZbin: now all videos start with a splash screen, “This video is NOT directed to children.”

[@ScooterinAB]

Pretty much. Though there is a higher degree of oversight and accountability that some channels are going to need to start using (and should have already) when it comes to their community, the reality seems that this will have little meaningful effect.

[@5folklore]

The content of this program is intended for mature audiences, TV-MA for Sexual References, Dirty Jokes, Drug Reference, and Foul Language. KZbin, needs to allow creators to curse and swear in their videos without censorship... it's time to shift gears and focus on that older audience, F-Bombs are now allowed. Adult content is now allowed. Nudity and Sex are not allowed though. XD

[@devrajsengupta9979]

@@FlameOnTheBeat ok boomer

[@soarinskies1105]

Michael Winter I think the bigger problem is the belief that the FTC will abuse the COOPA law in order to get to somebody even when they aren’t breaking the law. It’s happened before and people have been audited, fined, and sent to prison for tax fraud or tax evasion because of it even though they had done nothing wrong.

[@tianasparklez]

Flame Beats nobody is at school 24/7 bruh

[@tranquilXshorts]

KZbin: Online Creators are on their own when it comes to navigating COPPA LegalEagle: Hold my reasonable affordable tailored suit.

[@boydstephensmithjr]

Indochino always makes LegalEagle look great!

[@beemoney19]

..., fantastic hair product, and killer grizzled beard.

[@zkarebear]

☝️this comment 👏👏

[@RingoYote]

I N D O C H I N O

[@TheItzal11]

@@beemoney19 god I wish I could grow a beard like that, for some reason even though I'm a dirty blond my facial hair comes in in different colors, red, brown, and bleached level white ( to the point you can't tell if I'm growing a goatee unless you touch my chin cause it's so white it's almost invisible). Dude looks damn good

[@Atlasworkinprogress]

This seems to have a chilling similarity to the PMRC hearings in the 80s. Using the guise of protecting children to punish creators. PMRC resulted in the Parental Advisory sticker that ended up making music much more risque and less child friendly than it was before because once creators knew they were going to get the sticker on their albums, the chains were off. Of course this resulted in higher explicit album sales to children anyways, so the content that was trying to be walled off was just made more accessible. The same thing is going to happen here. Children are going to watch adult oriented videos, plain and simple, now all they will see on their feed is adult oriented videos. Frank Zappa said it right. This is akin to treating Dandruff with Decapitation.

[@futuza]

Yep, by trying to curb content creators who make content for children and punish them (by not allowing decent financial compensation), they will just turn toward making more adult content. This will result in an over saturation in more adult oriented videos and making the end results worse.

[@danielbutters3129]

Darth Futuza Exactly. When that grey area is no longer safe, you gotta either go black or white, and many will take the black side since you at least have freedom there.

[@rastavolt]

@@danielbutters3129 you not only have more freedom you also have financial solvency. If you go down the other path your ad revenue essentially evaporates as KZbin has been pushing targeted advertising as it has far better financial returns for them. KZbin is effectively saying that if you have a channel that is directed towards children you must now rely on sponsorships to stay solvent.

[@PhillyphilC3]

I remember using parental advisory labels in the 90s to determine the music that was "cool". No label? Don't want the album then. Completely agree with you. "Will Smith Doesn't have to cuss in his raps to sell records, but I do." - Eminem

[@manicmarauder]

@@rastavolt Also don't forget, KZbin at the same time stated they reserve the right to shut down channels that aren't financially viable *to them*. So even as a content creator if you're perfectly fine with your income from sponsors that's still not a safe position to be in. Since KZbin isn't getting any cut of that money themselves they may still cut you off.

[@jungwolf]

“Meet all of the other factors but the content is sooo adult it counteracts all the rest.” Porn, he’s talking about porn.

[@leaderofcommunistchina1427]

Or happy tree friends

[@saneiac]

I was thinking Team America: World Police. But porn works, too.

[@fytscosmic841]

HENTAI

[@rookieman329]

or murder, rape, violence

[@finnrock5558]

or shows like "rick and morty" or "hasbeen hotel" or "wundershozen"

[@ericwsmith7722]

Lets face it, Walt Disney movies are not aimed at children, they are aimed at their parents money.

[@MustraOrdo]

Replace "Walt Disney" with "every media conglomerate" and we can stop pretending that these businesses would give a single shit about the general consumers.

[@MrHamiltonShihTzu]

this is so true

[@ericwsmith7722]

What I learned early on, is if you do not have a KZbin account, you do not have access to "adult videos " as deemed by KZbin . I am sure no minors would have figured out to click *yes I am at least 18. As for copyright infringement , if its not yours,,,,,its not yours.

[@wahlex841]

Lets face it, no commercial product is really aimed at children.

[@giabarrone7422]

LegalEagle Per your own advice in this video, since Eeybui Vee has declared that he is an 11 yr old viewer in your comment section, you would now be subject to COPPA. Will you change the designation of this video to "child directed", when it clearly isn't, simply because you "have knowledge" that children under 13 are watching your video? Or will you keep it as is, and try to argue a "mixed company exception" if the FTC determines you are in violation? I know that this video is one of the most unlikely to be pursued by the FTC, but there a number of "family friendly channels" that have been getting these types of underage user comments too, and it is not so clear cut for them. Should one comment automatically flip the switch to "child directed" for that video? How many to designate the whole channel as "child directed"? Also, what is to stop unscrupulous people from intentional sabotage by either posing as a child, or having a child comment on a competitor's videos?

[@Kardia_of_Rhodes]

"Desperation and Trust are seldom allies." - Apollyon

[@thefoundation4837]

That's [REDACTED]

[@a-s-greig]

LaHaye Jenkins is one of my favorite Sci-Fi writers too.

[@iKiwed]

KZbin: You're going to pay for *COPPA.* LegalEagle: No that's wrong! --- BREAK ---

[@antianslider4636]

@Samantha Sadhmadhi "I'll cut through those words" -Hajime

[@thenextgeneration9030]

Hold on KZbin...what did you just say?

[@MrTrees]

Wait... It was Leon??

[@punipuniclips.6591]

Your deductions are fiction

[@fatuusdottore]

OBJECTION!

[@NikaraWolf]

I find the fact that the FTC is “punishing KZbin for children lying” as he put it is awful. To me that would be the equivalent of some 20 or younger faking an ID, getting into a bar and drinking, and then having the bar pay fines for letting someone underage getting into the bar. It should be the perpetrator (or in the KZbin case) the parents of the perpetrator being punished for faking information

[@frankg2790]

The new KZbin policy is more akin to bar management throwing the bartender under a speeding bus because they can't be bothered to actually fix the problem.

[@mennograafmans1595]

The thing is, in the USA, it's the providers fault if anything happens to the consumer. No matter the stupidity of the consumer. Like the person putting her dog in a microwave, killing it. It was considered the fault of the microwavecompany for not stating to never put living things in a microwave, not the fault of the killer that just wanted money. So the companies have to do the craziest shit to avoid people being stupid.

[@LarryInNM]

It should be unless the goal of a puritanical state is to close all the bars.

[@neurofiedyamato8763]

Yea the logic is flawed. There's no way of having a secure age gate without getting said private information of the person submitting their age. That means also getting information of kids which contradicts on not getting information of kids to begin with. Catch 22 much? And since youtube can't catch the lying kids, they are getting punished for the kids lying? So youtube have to pay the price for some kids not telling the truth. Why do others have to pay the price for someone else's mistake?

[@rextyrran5644]

I could be mistaken, but I do believe that serving alcohol to a minor, regardless of whether or not they have a fake ID, would still get a bar in trouble on the grounds that they should have recognized the ID as false.

[@Breadcrochets]

Why is coppa so focused on KZbin and creators, meanwhile the advertisers that are actually “ unfairly targeting children” are getting off Scott free? If a serial killer uses craigslist to find victims, we wouldn’t fine craigslist and let the murderer walk. I think the solution is instead of age gating the content or use of the platform, we should require an opt-in for receiving targeted ads. That way children wouldn’t feel motivated to lie about their age to access KZbin

[@jendubay3782]

Bread Doughlas fun fact, that’s legitimately what happened to Craigslist. That’s why there isn’t a personals ad anymore.

[@Breadcrochets]

Jen DuBay oh, didn’t know that. But the point remains that advertisers are as much at fault as the platform. The creators (except maybe algorithm cheaters like Elsa/Spider-Man channels) aren’t trying exploit children, and shouldn’t be punished by coppa. If companies weren’t allowed to advertise to children in the first place then this wouldn’t be an issue. Also I don’t see how this is any different from commercials that play during children’s shows on traditional tv

[@Nikifuj908]

@@Breadcrochets Legally, it's different because data isn't collected through your TV. Morally, though, I agree with you that KZbin is no different.

[@ZTanMURReneRs]

@@lunascythe6927 - The problem is, COPPA isn't about advertising to children. It's only about not collecting information about a child that can be used to track them online, ie cookies. As a consequence, specifically personally targeted ads are illegal, simply because they need to know who they are personally targeting, and that knowing is illegal. The personally part is important. It isn't ads that are targeted at "children" in general that are illegal, but specifically those targeted at a specific singular child, because of knowledge about that child.

[@bro748]

From what I understand, they are seeking to amend COPPA so that ad networks are responsible for advertising to kids too.

[@GreebleClown]

"- that I've used to defend my channel against dozens of bogus copyright claims." ... I kinda wanna hear about those..

[@TheNeilBlack]

Imagine filing false copyright claims against a lawyer. I think he's actually a copyright lawyer, too, isn't he?

[@reveranttangent1771]

He's not a copyright lawyer

[@TheNeilBlack]

@@reveranttangent1771 Thanks for the correction.

[@reveranttangent1771]

@@TheNeilBlack you're welcome

[@citrusblast4372]

I wonder how he dealt with copyright trolls

[@leakingamps2050]

Second question: If the FTC is saying that an "Are you over 13 yes/no" barrier is not good enough, what implications, if any, does this have for "Are you over 18 yes/no" barriers? Is is possible that any sites with adult content would need to institute some form of verifiable check for age (such as credit card, State ID/Drivers license, etc?). This seems like it could make the entire internet less safe by normalizing the request of such documents, ESPECIALLY for those too young to protect themselves, and would be only slightly more effective, as there's nothing stopping an underage user from borrowing their parent's information without consent.

[@MacAndSwiss]

The UK, if I recall correctly, attempted something like that with adult websites. It failed miserably.

[@EmulatorNoob]

@@MacAndSwiss That's because people are way too paranoid. "I don't want government to watch my every step". News flash, they already do

[@boooster101]

@@MacAndSwiss That will always because as Dr. Cox in Scrubs said so eloquently; "I'm fairly sure if they took porn off the internet, there'd only be one website left, and it'd be called Bring back the porn!"

[@endorPK]

Moreso, big sites would be literally unable to make viable check for age. Because of the different countries having different documents. If you make mandatory State ID check you cut users that living not in the States.

[@ZeldagigafanMatthew]

The UK has been trying to implement a similar age-gate and it keeps getting slammed. And if we are forced to put in such a check, I wouldn't be surprised if people do it in the most half-assed way possible, such as simply asking for the ID number but not performing ANY check on validity other than a digit count.

[@MartinLeong25]

Creators dont collect information Why are we getting fined

[@changhyon92]

^this

[@frankg2790]

KZbin has been screwing content creators over since WMG were the ones associated with abusing the copyright system. The only difference is that you can either swear and get demonetized or be family friendly and get fined.

[@asdfpoop33921]

@@frankg2790 There is a third option: No more content. KZbin dies, the end.

[@LadyBeritanavatarius]

@@asdfpoop33921 Then COPPA and similar future legislation is then turned towards platform after platform. This can go well beyond KZbin over time. Your option might lead you with nothing in the end. It would all be gone... what then? This won't stop with KZbin's death.

[@ivetterodriguez1994]

Because we are the "website" according to the FTC. The individual channels are all their own "website". Thus we're all inidvidually accountable since KZbin is basically a collection of several "websites (youtube channels). And those behind these "websites" are the one's determining if their channels are "for kids" or "not for kids". Which most agree feels very shaky and muddling. We're all concerned about how loose or austere the FTC will be when deciding to fine us or if they'll just make this "mixed audience" deemed content also lose channel features because "there could be kids watching". Some of us are slightly upset that if it weren't for kids lying about their age to make a google account to then make a youtube account then this never would have happened. Also, we're unsure or at least I'm not sure how this will keep kids from watching "not for kids" content. Couldn't they still find some loopholes and work the system? I mean, if KZbin said in their blog post that they will deem all of those watching kids content as kids and all of those watching 13+ content --not for kids-- as "adults, then that implies won't actually be able keep kids from accessing "not for kids" content defeating the whole purpose of not collecting data on them.

[@guitargodthor2]

I wonder how this will effect porn sites lol "Are you over 18?" 12 year old: "Yes"

[@xilrondo2907]

well..as the head said it'll be used pornhub will be fine, that random amateur doing porn will be fined 45k per video

[@TheRandomChatSeries]

I love my podcast from KZbin to Pornhub

[@randomstuff-qu7sh]

Clearly, porn will be ruled "child attractive" because of natural curiosity and the appeal of the forbidden.

[@breck1637]

It really shouldn’t affect them at all. Porn sites don’t collect the kind of information KZbin does, and most people don’t make accounts on porn sites in the first place. COPPA isn’t about what children should/shouldn’t see, it’s about websites tracking, storing, and using data and/or personal info gathered from kids.

[@joyphobic]

@@breck1637 instead of Coppa, how about improving kids from abusive household,like actual problem rather than this

[@spinningbackkick6021]

"When you say teenage, how old we talking?" - R. Kelly

[@edgarordaz4798]

Lmao!!

[@pitobrain]

"How old is 15 really?" - Dave Chappelle

[@AC3handle]

I dunno. Lets go ask Mr Epstien here. Oh wait...

[@1dogissky]

AC3 💀💀💀

[@DahVoozel]

"It depends on the child." - Sargon

[@sunnyrainyday6820]

Objection: KZbin does use persistent identifiers on children, but they can only discover or even suspect that a child is on the platform through those persistent identifiers.

[@unclecreepy7025]

Me: KZbin suggestions never match my viewing habits and downvoting videos does nothing to show my disinterest in them. Also me: I’m so glad I have ad blockers so I never have to watch a KZbin ad.

[@SeanWheeler100]

I've got ad blockers too.

[@vakancy]

How do you get add block

[@unclecreepy7025]

Download the app. I use Legacy.

[@Adplusamequalsadam]

You can access your google account and manually select what types of ads you’d be interested in. I forget how but I did it years ago, google also thought I was 40 when I was only 20 or something like that and I changed that too.

[@electrowave114]

Downvoting just tells KZbin that you were ENGAGED in the video, which is all the algorithm cares about. It doesn't care about if you *liked* the video, just about if you were ENGAGED enough to interact with it. So downvoting/upvoting are basically the same thing so far as the algorithm itself is concerned. (Pardon the necro-posting.)

[@RedwoodTheElf]

"Animated Characters" does NOT equal "Child Focussed." There is a LOT of adult animation out there, from the movie "Heavy Metal" at the mild end, to "Fritz the Cat" at the X-rated end. And that's just American examples, ignoring the japanese end of the spectrum of adult animation.

[@bolbyballinger]

The problem is that they have to make some sort of definition of what counts as "for kids". While "for kids" is an easy thing to know when you see it, it's pretty much impossible to properly define.

[@AlexZandor24]

@@polocatfan No, but the FTC did. Or probably might. Or said they could and wanted to and we will just have to see how "flexible" they decide to be.

[@eji]

@@polocatfan 21:10

[@huesername7476]

@@polocatfan He didn't. Listen to this part 21:24, he even says that he doesn't think that TheOdd1sOut is a child-directed channel. Tempted to say this, so I might as well... It's pretty unfunny though... "did polocatfan not pay attention to the video. that's actually a yikes. gonna have to reply and post a timestamp so this commenter can confirm that legaleagle did not say that."

[@citrusblast4372]

He did not say they were, did you watch the video without bias?

[@Convolva]

The real problem with the FTC's interpretations is that content creators cannot be termed as operators who track data regarding children as KZbin itself is the one who collects data on children. I don't know of any place in youtube analytics where it shows any information about anyone under the age of 13. That information is tracked solely by KZbin for their own targeted advertisement which content creators have no control over. KZbin is the one that's at fault here!

[@Trirosmos]

This! KZbin is collecting data mostly for their own use and letting content creators see a very filtered version of it kinda as a courtesy. Saying the data is being collected in behalf of the creators is just B.S

[@pokepress]

It is possible in analytics (old version, at least), to see what percentage of certain metrics is coming from KZbin Kids.

[@Idran]

KZbin is the one pushing the idea that channels could be directly at risk more so than the FTC itself; they want to gin up fear in the userbase so users start going after the FTC. They're leveraging the userbase as a weapon in order to get the FTC to go easier on KZbin, because KZbin was getting so much money from agreements with corporations like Hasbro that they had directed ad contracts with. Like for another example, this machine learning algorithm they're implementing to try and identify child-directed videos? The FTC panel specifically recommended _against_ that, for the exact reasons users are worried: they knew that the false positive rate would be an issue, both in terms of misapplying the intention of the law and in terms of overloading the FTC with complaints that would end up being invalid. But KZbin's going ahead with it anyway and claiming it's to abide with COPPA in order to terrify their users even more. (That's also why KZbin doesn't provide those analytics to users, honestly; by putting more uncertainty in the userbase, it means this fear can be even more established amongst creators)

[@trashcatlinol]

@@Idran This is the entire reason we need to keep repeating why it's KZbin's fault. I'm always a bit suspicious of the intent of authority figures, and it's completely reasonable to think youtube would be trying to weaponize its userbase against the ones who told them to stop. thanks for helping to spread the truth!

[@richardurwin4432]

But the creator benefits from targeted adds. Therefore it could be argued that You Tube is collecting the data on behalf of the creator, even if they don't let the creator see that data. Since the FTC has said that they could (and maybe will) prosecute creators, then they must believe that the creators benefit from collection of the data. It seems to me that by forbidding the use of cookies, the FTC is shooting the law in its foot. If Google could collect data on a particular user that said they had a child's viewing preferences, then it could stop advertising (etc) to that user. But the very fact that it determines that the user is under 13 demands that they then not track that user. It seems to me that cookies should be allowed for the sole purpose of determining if a user is a child. Parental consent is a huge problem. A twelve year-old is perfectly capable of pretending to be their own parent, even to the extent of borrowing their driver's license. About the only way to stop that is like Paypal does it -- make a couple of transactions to the user's bank account and have them read back the transaction IDs. Even that could be worked around if the parent is sufficiently lax with their personal security. It is fundamentally impossible to prove the identity of anyone on the Internet from moment to moment beyond all doubt.

[@kd8663]

I nearly spat out my drink at "employees who interact with creators." If you're Pewdiepie, you communicate with KZbin, but if their horrendous relationship with false copyright claims levied against creators is anything to go by, KZbin either has no ability or no interest in communicating clearly with creators about legal issues as they arise on an individual, channel level. The lack of liason between KZbin and its creators has been a growing problem, between copyright law infringements and multiple ad-pocolypses, that's now coming into sharp relief with the new Coppa enforcement. Not that I envy KZbin the task of effectively communicating with millions of creators- but if they want to continue their growth competing with cable television, that's a department that needs to grow with them. It's something I'm surprised to see they didn't try to get out ahead of. Now it seems they're playing catch up to deal with a problem that affects every creator on the platform to some degree, and it will likely be those middling creators, too big to avoid attention but too small to have KZbin's ear, who suffer the most.

[@joshualeroy6618]

"KZbin is directed for only the people above the age of 13." PG13 baby shark music get louder

[@dancorps1388]

Daddy shark do do do, daddy skark *KILLS* (insert Jaws screen here)

[@odeofdespair]

"the content may not be child oriented but you check all the other boxes" immediately thinks of Happy Tree Friends

[@justintimeleave1360]

Was fun watching Happy Tree Friends at the secondary school level. Seems like a restriction on freedom and essentially a distortion of the world for kids in the long run. Arkangel (Black Mirror)

[@bradypostma5167]

21:20

[@Redmanticore]

fren & stimpy

[@goldstandard2039]

I forgot about happy tree friends. I remember showing a friend of mine it in high school, I can still see their horrified expression when it went from child friendly to bloody massacre.

[@eboomer]

28:47 This is the problem - KZbin will roll out a hastily made algorithm that will mis-classify MANY channels because of things like the usage of animation. Algorithms don't do well with 10 point subjective human judgement call criteria written by politicians and interpreted years later by judges, and KZbin will error on the side of self-preservation, at the detriment of many content creators.

[@Herowebcomics]

And a BUNCH of their cash flow!

[@eboomer]

@@Herowebcomics Yep. I would expect it to end the careers of many content creators, in some cases before they even get off the ground. What is needed is a feedback loop to keep KZbin from viewing that as just an externality. They need competition that is able to take KZbin down a notch or two when they botch things badly.

[@lyssam100]

So I'm getting the strong impression that this is KZbin's fault, honestly. Bragging that they have a sizeable child audience to advertise to, jesus, no wonder they got smacked down. Furthermore, if they know that, and can target those users, then presumably they know who they are and can just shut off algorithm access to them.

[@Moleoflands]

I don't think they can directly. I think they knew that because the usage of parental accounts and probably surveys

[@KLT-id9nm]

They could certainly suspend or ban accounts suspected to be children until given proof otherwise.

[@blitzofchaosgaming6737]

How about Pewdiepie labeling his audience "The 9 year old Army"?

[@Hhhhhh-sz9ud]

The main issues with that are that they have to track them to find that out and that they're never completely sure, they just highly suspect it. Additionally, what about the accounts of parents?

[@citrusblast4372]

@@blitzofchaosgaming6737 that title was thrust upon him, he simply embraced it. He first used to call them bros.

[@d73w80]

If their demonization bots are any indication, I'm scared of what KZbin's automatic COPPA bot will do.

[@elmateo77]

These changes are going to effectively demonetize and kill all child-directed channels, which will just result in kids watching content meant for adults. Good work FTC.

[@Herowebcomics]

...And that has NOTHING to do with COPPA! Child privacy was the issue, not video content! Good work indeed!

[@woaddragon]

@@Herowebcomics Thank you

[@Cohav-vo6rp]

I have a gut feeling that traditional media, such as cable tv, has lobbied the FTC because they want to hurt their competition.

[@kabobawsome]

Since the late 90s, the FTC has been effectively controlled by media lobbyists, like AT&T and Comcast. You'll note those are also ISPs, taking into account that the FTC also repealed net neutrality.

[@damasterofskitsees]

@@kabobawsome You're thinking of the FCC

[@cryofpaine]

I wouldn't be surprised.

[@RingoYote]

they weren't. those companies own a majority of Hulu and Netflix and other giant like Disney recently launched their own streaming services. They adapted. the FTC is doing this because KZbin has failed to enforce its own TOS for over a decade.

[@RobertoBlake]

I’m convinced of it.

[@ventezcamilo]

I'm 34 years old and youtube still recommends me to use youtube kids, guess because i see a lot of animated and videogame videos. Saddly it is hard to trust in youtube age segregation you mentioned before

[@Call-me-Al]

I watch a lot of doll makers and doll repainters, and other geeky arts and crafts channels. They aren't child directed yet it is easy for KZbin to claim it's for children just because there are bright colors and for instance child marketed dolls like bratz being turned into for instance baby yoda or monsters. You need to be an adult to handle harsh solvents and varnishes, and is aimed at adult crafters. But all those child targetted toys being used as raw material will probably make KZbin claim it is child targetted.

[@Call-me-Al]

I should add that by KZbin I mean KZbin Algorithms. KZbin is already atrocious at handling false copyrights strikes. I have no doubt they will be as bad and worse at handling adult crafting channels.

[@exantiuse497]

I once watched a video by Jim Sterling (a VERY foul-mouthed youtuber) that had a few minutes of footage from a game trailer with pretty colors and childlike characters... and literally all the videos in the recommended tab were actual kids' shows. I mean actual full episodes that someone uploaded on KZbin and I guarantee the uploaders were not the copyright holder. Inappropriate video recommendations and recommending literal piracy, KZbin algorythm in a nutshell

[@QuimBeeLivingstone]

Same, i get that damn pop up asking me to sign up for KZbin for Kids/Kids Premium at least once a week. Maybe 30% of the videos i watch are animated but most of those arent directed at kids. i also see 'recommendations' for incredibly childish cartoons that ive never heard if and arent even in english. Im in my mid-30's. Almost every channel im subscribed to has either the creator worried sick or people in the comments saying can't use intro music in a medical video because you tube will shut the channel down. It has every one so crazy

[@MajinErick]

Right click and tell the algorithm that you are Not Interested. Your preferences will start building.

[@esotericVideos]

"There's a lot that can still be done: You can leave comments with the FTC". Unfortunately that's probably going to be about as effective as all the comments about Net Neutrality were.

[@frankg2790]

The FTC spokesperson made it crystal clear that they are targeting Content Creators in their witch hunt. Leaving a comment with them is like politely asking the NKVD to not send your kid to Siberia.

[@CelticVictory]

Frank They fined KZbin, not content creators.

[@speedtracker9556]

How do I leave comments with the FTC?

[@jaketurner8109]

Because everything is soo much worse now without Net Neutrality and its a miracle the Internet even still exist /s

[@KyrstOak]

@@jaketurner8109 Give it time. The big guys have yet to realise the power of information directing they hold.

[@thecollierreport]

When people have no idea how a law applies, that is tyranny.

[@forcelightningcable9639]

The Collier Report the day I agree with a trump supporter... now I know hell has frozen over. You’re completely right though with that comment.

[@benwillems8584]

Don't tyrants know exactly how laws work and just don't give a damn?

[@Kardia_of_Rhodes]

@@forcelightningcable9639 The worst part about being in a Dystopia is you never realize you're in one until it's already too late.

[@---cr8nw]

@Ben Williams, the law is written in such a way that the SUBJECTS don't understand it and can thus be easily prosecuted.

[@forcelightningcable9639]

Heart of Iron RGF if you study enough historical materialism you’ll realize that this has been going on since the inception of industrialization (and the underlying power relations have never really changed since the “dawn of time”)

[@thecrabmaestro564]

The fact that this guy ends his videos with "see you in court" makes me feel threatened that he might sue me

[@WindowsEater]

I think that was more-or-less referring to KZbin.

[@cdgonepotatoes4219]

Think of it as the opposite, you get sued he'll be on the defense.

[@f4ptr989]

Ugh I could live the rest of my life happily without ever setting foot in a court room again.

[@Zalarys]

@@f4ptr989 ... again?

[@thecrabmaestro564]

Just because he's a defence lawyer doesn't mean he can't sue people

[@kingcole5977]

I've got the *perfect* solution: instead of asking kids for their age, why not ask for identification which can inform their age, like their social security number … wait

[@sad_doggo2504]

Samuel Cole so we can't collect any data on them that would prevent data being collected on them. Well shoot.

[@Totenglocke42]

I've got an actual solution that solves all of it....parents actually do their f-ing job and parent their children instead of just plopping them in front of a TV / computer.

[@Joshua-gt7pz]

The irony is lost on the FTC. Shocker.

[@bolbyballinger]

Here's a better solution. KZbin allows kids under 13 on the site. Kids have no reason to lie about their age and KZbin can now easily stop collecting their data.

[@jorritkroes4977]

@@GeekPsychologist No because that is fine. We can't trace age back to a person or online presence.

[@jeremyshaferorigami]

OBJECTION 13:05 ..."So they created these 10 or so factors that are objective by nature"..... Subject matter, visual content, use of animated characters, music audio content, etc. NO NO NO! Determining whether subject matter is targeted to children is extremely subjective! It's going come down to some FTC reps opinion. That is why we are so frustrated by the guidelines.

[@Justin-tp1mx]

he talked about that, and they're legally objective questions because they can be answered yes or no, not with an opinion like good or bad

[@maxcovfefe]

THIS is why nice restaurants should have "child free" seating.

[@merlin4real]

And planes! People would pay double fpr a ticket if they knew kids and pets were not allowed.

[@adamgray1753]

Sadly enough, @@merlin4real, this is a valid idea for our rapidly dying modern world. My local Brookshire's store outlawed therapy animals to be in their stores. Heck yeah! Now that's a win!

[@irobot9250]

@@adamgray1753 I think therapy animals should be an exception. therapy animals are there for, you know, the person's mental health.

[@adamgray1753]

Screw other people's mental health, @@irobot9250. If you need a therapy animal then you are not fit for real life under any circumstances.

[@fleshymeatsac9371]

@@adamgray1753 what a worthless waste of life you are.

[@moistsnailpoop5295]

So theoretically, someone can assemble an army of actual 9 year olds and have them watch non-child friendly videos, forcing anyone they want to have to be at risk of a $40k fine?

[@jadenn.hernandez7784]

Moist Snail Poop "i like money"

[@thefamouscommenter]

How exactly would that work

[@steamnamebbderinvade__]

umm, that's what the FBI is for? Wouldn't federal appeals court refund then fine them? being from India etc. doesn't necessary give you immunity from such lawsuits.

[@JohnFoley1701]

There might be some legal hurdles involved in assembling an army of 9 year olds.

[@alexanderchristopher6237]

@@JohnFoley1701 forget about the legal hurdles. Gathering an army of 9 years old itself is already near impossible.

[@capiron2316]

The long-awaited analysis is here at last!

[@jaschabull2365]

"So, you have until the 9th to try to stop this." I take it this was the wrong video to put off watching until after Christmas was over...

[@Boundless-Boredom]

So when are they gonna take facebook for all the children on their apps😂

[@stevethepocket]

Facebook really needs to just be shut down. Lock up Zuckerberg for life without parole, take every last cent its shareholders ever made from it and dump it into the "pay off the national debt" fund.

[@this_is_patrick]

This reminds of me a news article saying that some dude on Facebook pretended to be a chicken nugget and actually managed to lure a few kids to meet him. Some of its users are one of the lowest, most subhuman people I've ever seen.

[@yungmahon715]

Facebook is a toxic shit hole circlejerk so I agree

[@robinhood5627]

Why would they take action against their own intelligence gathering platform?

[@readonly2309]

worried about children? answer? lets treat everyone like children, what can go wrong? ::: :

[@irwansyahteam2842]

Children take lead possible cartoon.

[@richardgates7479]

@@MyNontraditionalLife Are we expected to believe that the PBS channels, of which I watched a lot of as a kid, will no longer make any revenue on YT? Maybe PBS doesn't monetize but other similar channels do.

[@richardgates7479]

@@MyNontraditionalLife I doubt it's a legal issue. It's possible that those channels are part of KZbin TV and so get subscription money. I was talking about channels like Physics Girl that are PBS channels. Not necessarily targeted at children under 13 but educational. I really don't care about children's cartoons, never watched them as a kid as I thought most of them stupid.

[@sophiesong8937]

@@MyNontraditionalLife One way children will benefit is because a lot of very low quality childrens content will hopefully disappear since it will no longer be profitable (see 'learn colours shapes numbers with finger family song' there are millions of these videos, they get millions of views and they are cynical rubbish.) I would hope it also disincentivises unboxing and direct advertising videos for kids, and malicious content created for children. If youtube are smart, they will figure out a funding model for childrens content creators who do make quality, thoughtful content.

[@bap3227]

doesnt everyone do it already?

[@gtoger]

Objection! In the video you occasionally refer to creators as "channel owners." Do we actually have any ownership? It's always been my view that this is KZbin's world and we're just allowed to interact in it. We don't "own" anything but are given license to use the platform. Am I wrong?

[@miguelamaton5742]

Yes you're wrong

[@robertkelleher1850]

You have the licensing backwards. You own the content, and license it to KZbin. Granted, the terms are there's not yours.

[@wta1518]

No, you are licensing your content to KZbin in exchange for a cut of their ad revenue.

[@Nater_V]

This is how legally a channel like Drama Alert with Keemstar as the host while being banned off the site. He is the host, not the owner

[@RicardoDelfinGarcia]

You own the videos (and you have full copyright over them), but you don't "own" the channel per-se in that KZbin can choose to stop hosting your content or delete your channel

[@DarkEchoFF]

I started putting the PG-13 logo on my thumbnails and in every video and stream (visible at all times). I also have put a disclaimer at the start of every video and on my start and end screens during my stream. Also when I see someone say they're under 13 I always tell them they need permission from their parents to watch my content. I have a gaming channel and it is family friendly, just NOT directed to children. I hope all of the above I mentioned will do at least something in my advantage of proving I am not a "child directed channel"....

[@ZeldagigafanMatthew]

And COPPA actually has a section for that, unfortunately, the way KZbin went about things, it's a binary system, either you are, or you aren't, and simply claiming to be either is not good enough.

[@tiagotiagot]

If KZbin knows they have children watching to sell those children to advertisers, they know who needs to be blocked from accessing "adult" features. It's ridiculous users and creators are gonna be punished. And if they don't know who the children are, then the only responsibility is left to the parents.

[@williameldridge9382]

Unfortunately, that is not the case in the eyes of the law. COPPA and FOSTA/SESTA both specifically hold companies responsible for EVERYTHING that happens on their platform, regardless of if they are aware of it or not. Prime example is Craig's List. They removed their relationship based ad services from their site because if someone was underage or doing anything else illegal, they would be held liable for that content, even if they were unaware it existed.

[@tiagotiagot]

@@williameldridge9382 How is it legal to punish people for things they couldn't even know was happening and had no control over?

[@CrissaKentavr]

@@tiagotiagot The default is you're responsible whether you know the law or not, for something that happens on your turf. That's why they wrote a law to make it so.

[@sharkwolfdarkwolf2625]

@@CrissaKentavr should be the party that is acting illegally. How is a supermarket responsible for a brawl between customers in it's parking lot?

[@tiagotiagot]

@@CrissaKentavr We're not talking about knowing the law though, but about knowing of a problem.

[@Official930Studios]

You just made COPPA less complicated and made the announcer of COPPA look incompetent. Thank you, I feel less stressed. God bless

[@outsider_in]

FTC: "So you see, with all your animated content, we're going to have to mark all of your content as being for kids." Hentai Creator: "..........excuse me?"

[@IIxIxIv]

The FTC said that not all animation is child directed.

[@theorganizer1273]

IIxIxIv but KZbin bots will...

[@IronycheinPain]

Gore animators: Okay here have a dead drawn cat

[@MegaPompoen]

@@IronycheinPain You mean half of a dead drawn cat

[@IronycheinPain]

@@MegaPompoen No. I mean a shot full of cat gut and the cat itself No I do not have that type of content but damn I'm stepping up my game

[@ExplainingComputers]

Useful video, thanks.

[@samanjj]

Objection: giving my iPad to my child is consent unless you start making sure newspapers, Tv, books, and radio also comply with Coppa

[@QlueDuPlessis]

The (USA)Law requires consent in writing via registered letter or some such archaic method.

[@samanjj]

Aadil Shah exactly. you make another good point. If the law requires digitally connected mediums to have a higher bar for consent, they should take advantage of that medium’s connected nature and avoid paper.

[@crazynightowl]

Those don't gather info on the user so have nothing to do with COPPA

[@samanjj]

@crazynightowl they ask you for your information, ask you to join book clubs, communicate with shows, take listener calls and also take letters to the editor. I don’t want my child reaching out to any of those mediums without my consent.

[@samanjj]

@crazynightowl even when I buy software or products they ask me to register. What stops a child filling those forms out?

[@imamused4819]

I think the concern isn't just the FCC ruling. It's the fact that KZbin has a tendency to over correct for problems.

[@redredmane5544]

Well, they got fined TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS for violating the FTC backed FCC’s COPPA laws!!! So you have to forgive them for panicking and going “overboard!!!”

[@krissisk4163]

Pewd likes to talk up his "9 year old army" so he's probably in trouble based on what you're saying here. I think MatPat can legitimately argue that most of his audience is adults or teens though. I also think that the reason the FTC has denied the swing gate is because KZbin has bragged that there are kids on the platform.

[@EvaHoshizora]

It was a joke and now we are 19 year army lol. He can argue that it was a inside joke with his audience, that would hold up on court as well.

[@shippouma121]

Kris Sisk pewds is too important to KZbin they won’t let me go down.

[@max96779]

But pewdiepie is clearly adult oriented

[@KaoruSF]

Pewds is outside of the US so how do this affect him? If I remember well no country can enforce any law under foreign territories

[@shepherd9217]

If they dare touch mat pat... Smh

[@crunchy_kitkat]

i wonder if pewdiepie calling his fans "the 9 year old army" counts as acknowledgment of child directed content

[@Error763]

They are the 19 year old army now so I think he's good

[@GRBtutorials]

Actually, to be more accurate, a cookie is just a piece of information. Cookies can’t track anything by themselves (otherwise they would be a standard program, and quite literally, spyware), it’s just that they’re used to store an anonymous tracking ID, which the website uses to track your activity. So basically, when you click on a link to a video, the website stores in their servers’ database this ID along with all the relevant information, something like this: “user 19375 is watching LegalEagle” (in DB format, of course), which is what can be used for tracking. However, there are many other uses for cookies, such as storing personal preferences (such as light or dark mode), and most importantly, session IDs. Session IDs are what is used to keep you logged into a website even if you close it. So rejecting all cookies is not a good idea unless you really have the privacy concerns, because you will have to log in every time you visit the website, and in the worst case, not even be able to do so.

[@excitedbox5705]

You can store anything you want in a cookie. You are right though it is just a storage file on the computer and itself doesn´t track anything. You shouldn´t use cookies for login because they can be modified or read by anyone. You should use session variables instead and even then you need to be careful. I only use cookies for tracking watched videos for instance. You can store a list of video IDs and a time stamp for instance to track which videos have been watched and how long, to continue playing at the right spot when they go back to it.

[@commander31able60]

actually a cookie is a kind of snack.

[@Icantchangemyhandlehelp]

@@commander31able60 Compuer cookies

[@ninten_ka]

applesugarplum dont computers taste like apples? i mean... an apple-flavored cookie?

[@commander31able60]

@@ninten_ka if you wanna pay $2000 for just that yeah.

[@InfiniteAnvil]

While I appreciate you walking us through this, I don't think most creators & users are afraid of COPPA per se, or whether the FTC might consider their content to be child-directed. As you say, they don't have a ton of funding right now, and are unlikely to come after individual creators. I think most creators & users are more worried about KZbin using overbroad automated systems that will identify their content as child-directed based on opaque and asinine criteria. This is why animators in particular are scared: animation is easy to identify algorithmically, and after such a big fine, KZbin has every reason to be overzealous in demonstrating compliance.

[@exasperated]

I'm trying to make varied content, from repair vids to Lego reviews. I'm not aiming for, or desiring a child audience. I may make the odd innuendo, or "do a naughty swear", and I get that parents might not want their crotchfruit watching my content. So, I'm happy to mark my stuff as "Why do I have to worry about you failing to properly parent your own damned offspring". But it seems that if I mark a Harry Potter Lego vid as "Seriously, there should be a parenting exam before conception" I could then be in trouble for making content "directed at children" because of the McGuffin, the topic, even if I'm putting a more adult presentation or spin on it. That's what scares me. Trying to do the right thing ending up having me in the mire because someone else judges me to have done the wrong.

[@bolbyballinger]

KZbin got a big fine? When did that happen? Last I heard the fine they got was only the amount they make in 14 hours. The whole thing was just a sick day for them.

[@NotSoProishNoob]

@@bolbyballinger They got fined over a few million because FTC noticed what KZbin did about children ads and shit. It's literally the biggest reason why they started doing this COPPA system madness.

[@bolbyballinger]

@@NotSoProishNoob And that "few million" is the amount they make in 14 hours.

[@KnitGrit]

Bolby Ballinger 170 million 😂😂😂

[@jincyquones]

Objection! 8:05 Cookies don't "watch your activity over time." They allow websites to store small amounts of information and retrieve it later, even if you've started a new browsing session. It's up to a website's back-end systems to use the information to track user activity, and cookies are not strictly meant for that purpose.

[@BigHenFor]

But companies use Cookies for that purpose everyday. What would be easier for KZbin and Alphabet to do? They sell that tracking information to advertisers. That's how they make money.

[@Justanotherconsumer]

BigHenFor that’s the technical definition, but not the reason people are concerned about cookies.

[@burrowowl]

It's how websites manage sessions at all. Each HTTP request springs into existence de novo, a tabula rasa unsullied by previous interactions.

[@burrowowl]

@@BigHenFor - their primary business model isn't selling your information, it's selling your attention. You don't give AdSense $100 for somebody's personal information, you give them $100 to show your ad to a number of people the match your keywords.

[@boydstephensmithjr]

But, a cookie *is* a persistent identifier. So, the fact that persistent identifiers can be used to track a user over time or across websites, it's still at issue for COPPA considerations.

[@richardgates7479]

Raising the defined age of a child is a lot like waiting a few more years before telling them about the Birds and the Bees.

[@MrXemrox]

-“Collects or maintain personal data” KZbinrs had no access to that, so they are not operators.- “On who's behalf.” that is very cheeky of them. KZbin should had enforced their own 13+ rules.

[@Koooo4]

Saying they are doing it "on behalf" of content creators is a bit of a stretch..

[@danieljames1868]

@@Koooo4 statistically speaking, saying KZbin is doing *anything* on behalf of _content creators_ is usually a bit of a stretch.

[@alexatkin]

Sadly as it's used for targeted ads, notifications, etc, that's very much on our behalf.

[@Spectral_Penguin]

@@alexatkin actually it would be on the behalf of advertisers, since that gains KZbin more revenue as advertisers pay more for targeting. The benefit for creators is almost incidental.

[@DChronosX]

That was also added in 2013 or 2015 when they added "persistent identifiers" which can't actually tell you anything real about a person except what links they happen to be clicking. It really applies to protecting a kid's privacy from internet predators as the law was made for, doesn't it. /sarcasm/

[@michaelheimburger1115]

Objection: Is there any argument against the "on whose behalf" definition and it's application toward KZbin Creators? I would say that KZbin is NOT collecting the data driving the advertising algorithm "on behalf of" Creators. They're doing it on their own behalf for their own ad engine which Creators have no part in or control of. It sounds like the FTC is putting Creators on the wrong side of the "on whose behalf" as though the Creators are doing the collection. The collection is still done by KZbin itself, just piggybacked on the videos created by Creators. Creators have no access to the means of collection or the data itself. Creators do benefit from the data collection in the form of ad revenue, but I think it's silly to say that paying Creators is the purpose of KZbin's ad engine since they would be doing something similar for their own benefit no matter where the content originated.

[@chaosordeal294]

Yeah, it's pretty hard to show that data is collected on my behalf if I have no say in how or what data is collected, and I have no access to that data.

[@hans-joachimbierwirth4727]

Terrorists acting on behalf of Allah -> Allah sued.

[@neurofiedyamato8763]

Video recommendations also use the algorithm which gathers data. That means either your video isn't recommended at all, or it is relying on personalized data gathered by youtube on your behalf. As a youtuber, you earn some of that personalized advertisements too. You earn much less money with contextualized advertisements, though still better than earning no money and being fined by the FTC

[@rextyrran5644]

As the creators benefit from the gathering of the information, the gathering of said information could be, and has been, said to gathered on their behalf.

[@hans-joachimbierwirth4727]

@@rextyrran5644 Has been said... "said" as in drivel. Who cares?

[@Dudeguy217]

im 12 what is this

[@DoctorTopper]

Good question. I'd like to know that too.

[@muggyfox1]

So related videos? Videos that are similar to what you are watching via tags, genre and title? I could see KZbin doing that without needing to place a cookie on your device.

[@warpzone8421]

The really sad part is that advertisers are already trying to convert their precious targeted ads back into de-facto contextual ads by pre-selecting which types of content their ads are eligible for.

[@Dudeguy217]

@MJPK I'd disagree but in either case I'm better off.

[@k.12.24]

My cousin said that coppa wants us to curse in every video but I came to this video to see if it was true

[@dimitri1515]

If I have to see a commercial, I would prefer it be specific to things I would buy. For instance, there is a really nice playhouse in my neighborhood, but I had never been and frankly forgot it was there. Thanks for Facebook, I saw the add and now I'm regularly going to see their plays.

[@GenoRiolu]

i like the thought of that, just... known bogus claimer: do you have a lawyer that would like to dispute this claim? theyre expensive you know. legal eagle: no, but i personally am a licensed lawyer who, if you were somewhat observant to see, is practiced in this specific field and would happily defend myself on this matter.

[@nnelg8139]

"The lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client."

[@GenoRiolu]

@@nnelg8139 this is a fair point that i forgot about, but the counter scare tactic potential is still amusing.

[@mattwo7]

13:58 "KZbin would ban that user immediately" Hahahahahahahaha... Oh wait, you're you're serious? Here, let me laugh harder *_HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!_*

[@Legion849]

HAHAHAHAHAHA

[@ChrisRossiswatching]

If the FTC thinks that cookies identify anything but the device, they all need to be fired.

[@hkr667]

You know damn well that isn't true in practice. Yes the cookie is relevant to the device, but when the vast vast majority of devices, especially internet devices, are personal, that comes down to the same thing. Not to mention other fingerprinting methods that can differentiate different users on the same device, although those are not cookies.

[@evetrevena4309]

animation does not make things child friendly. It really annoys me that that's a factor.

[@AusanIsHere]

Happy tree friends: *confused screaming*

[@LyricalDJ]

Reminds me of the anecdote of the mother who took her child to see Chucky because she thought it'd be a nice flm with a puppet in it.

[@slynx187]

Same with Don't Hug Me I'm Scared

[@hardlybreathe93]

Wow thats gonna be one big irony

[@joneelillard892]

@@LyricalDJ Apparently the same thing happened with the South Park movie

[@IronycheinPain]

@@joneelillard892 and there goes the kids who loved MLP:FiM back in 2010-14 (PONY.MOV by hotdiggitydog)

[@MultiClassGeek]

The whole “Age Gate Isn’t Enough” argument bugs me. In this context, an under-13 signing up to KZbin Main is basically the equivalent of getting served on a bar with a Fake ID. Why are the content providers liable for Bad Faith actions on the part of users? Is there no Due Diligence argument here? Or if one were feeling cantankerous, one might try and push the Knowledge argument from United States v X-Citement Video...

[@leoanything7285]

Not really. It’s more like if you ask someone if they’re 18 and they say yes, you sleep with them, oops turns out their 15. You could definitely still go to jail even though it isn’t necessarily your fault

[@JaeJonson]

@@leoanything7285 Better analogy, good job.

[@Fade2GrayOG]

I think the main problem here was that Google knew people were lying about their age and was openly using that fact to make money. The FTC went after them hard because it was such an obvious violation, and didn't care what the implications would be for things like age gating. The FTC aren't saints here, their eagerness to retain as much power as possible by being as vague as they can possibly be while thing threatening massive fines is making life unnecessarily hard for everyone, but Google are the ones who kicked the hornet's nest with reckless abandon.

[@xilrondo2907]

@@leoanything7285 not really. if you have no reason to believe they're under age taking them at their word is actually a perfectly legal defense infact there was a case in DC awhile back that outright stated it (from the SC) if you solicit a minor without the knowledge that they're a minor it's not constitutional (ie legal) to prosecute as if you engaged in soliciting a minor

[@xilrondo2907]

@@Fade2GrayOG alright..let's pretend they will do anything and everything that the FTC and you can come up with to prevent it what is your solution to minors lying about their age online? how do you solve it?

[@user-eu3hi2vo3e]

Here in Korea there’s a law where kids under a certain age can’t play at game cafes past a certain time. They actually have to use their cellphone number to make a member account and if their at the cafe past that time the computer literally kicks them out. Also... why are we making it KZbin’s fault when parents are the ones who should be regulating what their kid watches..

[@NinjaBearFilms]

That’s new since I was in Korea. Or just a further indicator of how shady of a neighborhood I lived in…

[@Hhhhhh-sz9ud]

Because it's not about what the kids are watching, the issue is that KZbin is tracking children which is super illegal.

[@isaacromo869]

It's KZbin's fault because they were collecting children's info. Indeed the children are responsible for lying, but if you know they are lying and continue to collect their info that's on you. It would be like a pawn shop owner buying stolen goods with the knowledge the goods were stolen

[@user-eu3hi2vo3e]

NinjaBearFilms it’s called the shutdown law - I’m sure there are easy ways to get around it. I mean hell, you could just use someone else’s phone number. But at least it’s something.

[@OlaftheGreat]

The problem with this system is that still 2 years later it doesn't work correctly. False flags are still a huge issue. Also there is quote unquote children's media that appeals to adults that grew up watching it, and the video features are restricted heavily.

[@YonatanZunger]

A footnote: it's not that children are getting a veto on content for adults (39:20); it's that legislators and regulators get a veto on content for adults on the grounds that it may affect children. If you've ever encountered the extremely weird mess that is (say) child porn law in the US, where "we need to fight this obviously bad thing" is used as a tool for all sorts of other things, or obscenity laws in the UK, you can see how this creates a very dangerous mechanism: if KZbin is required to treat content as being aimed at children _by default,_ then can that in turn be used to (say) apply non-COPPA-related obscenity laws, FCC regulations, and the like to all KZbin content as well, perhaps with an exception for "adults-only" content that people need to prove their access to with a driver's license? (Consider that many states consider any discussion of the existence of LGBTQ+ people as inherently sexual; combine that with the "community standards" idea of the Miller test, and a prior legal stance that this material is _per se_ oriented towards children.) This could create a world analogous to that of broadcast TV in the 1960's: everything has to be considered "child-appropriate," and very powerful censors can remove any content which violates _their_ norms of what that is. LGBTQ rights? Cannabis legalization? Discussions that may fail to show the "respect and support that law enforcement deserves," as our Attorney General recently put it? That may all be constitutionally mandated as permissible for adults, but we have long legal precedent (eg Miller v California) for setting entirely different standards for what children can see. That would be _dangerous,_ after all.

[@happycamperds9917]

How are you verified with 100 subs?

[@RobertoBlake]

DekuShrub 99 back in the day you could do it. It wasn’t hard.

[@RobertoBlake]

Yonatan Zunger I’m if the opinion that COPPA is soft censorship and unconstitutionally sound.

[@YonatanZunger]

@@happycamperds9917 Back when G+ and KZbin were merged, I had around 300k subs over there. :) But I'm basically off social media nowadays.

[@YonatanZunger]

@@RobertoBlake I think the law is a train wreck and should be repealed (and perhaps replaced with something written with an understanding of the Internet!), but I'm not convinced it would ever be held unconstitutional. There's a lot of case law that says that "but think of the children!" is a valid punch-through to most things.

[@501ststormtrooper9]

When Matpat was talking to Susan, she even said that 95% of the people behind COPPA had no phones.

[@thewienerdogvlogs6435]

Nick Collins i really dont know how in this day and age that actually works.....

[@pokepress]

The Wiener Dog Vlogs maybe they meant smartphones?

[@thewienerdogvlogs6435]

pokepress maybe....

[@weirdoneontheblock]

@@pokepress Ya she said cell phones.

[@QlueDuPlessis]

There should be a mandatory retirement age for Law makers just like there is for all other Government jobs.

[@Alias_Anybody]

KZbin, some time ago: ALL CONTENT HAS TO BE CHILD FRIENDLY! KZbin, now: IF YOU CAN'T PROVE THAT YOUR CONTENT IS NOT AIMED AT KIDS YOU ARE SCREWED, AND THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM.

[@Kynk]

Did you even watch the video? Just because KZbin has to follow the law doesn't mean this is their fault.

[@Shin_FTW]

@@Kynk Actually since KZbin were the ones pushing creators to be child-friendly when KZbin isn't even for people under 13 in the first place and it was actually illegal to gather data from the audience KZbin was trying to appeal to, it kind of is.

[@Alias_Anybody]

@@Kynk It's absolutely their fault. They refused to pay more human mods, so the adocalypse happened. They deliberately broke the law, now the next one may happen. They f*ck up and the content creators have to deal with the fallout.

[@Kynk]

@@Shin_FTW you did not watch this video....

[@Kynk]

@@Alias_Anybody I agree that KZbin is partly at fault. But I still don't think you watched the video, or if you did you did not understand it.