Legend of Vox Machina S2 - Table to Screen - Where does your Strength come from?

[@j-dawg4774]

"You will learn what you lack" A subtle way of saying "don't split up from the party"

[@R_Caine]

subtlety isn't quite Grog's strong suit.

[@cryptowatcher5963]

Groon was the main reason the monk class became my favorite. Thank you, Matt.

[@nivyan]

I'd highly recommend an Arcane Trickster Rogue if you like the playstyle, but want a bit more magic. They're surprisingly similar, they just achieve things differently. And some people might prefer Spellslots over Ki points. With Arcane Trickster, you should take a lot of utility - which, I think, is the reason Arcane Trickster are limited to Enchantment and Illusion spells. I played one for 5 years in a massive campaign, and was never bored because Spells were almost always more flexible than Ki points. Finally, I think the Arcane Trickster Rogue is the ultimate 1 on 1 class - their flexibility and ability to manipulate the battlefield is just insane. Fighting an evil wizard? Steal his spellbook with an invisible Mage Hand within 60 feet. Fighting a barbarian? Just outrun them and hold your distance - you're faster in every way. Fighting a monk? Steal their weapon, use simple spells to distract them. I do think you'd need to be the instigator against Monks, as a monk is *technically* able to completely disable any character - assuming the dice is in their favor. How about a giant, ancient Dragon? My character researched red dragons heavily and even went to a plane that's basically hell and talked with the former red dragons. Then he got a specific poison made. When he arrived at the dragon' lair, he used Gaseous Form to go throug the dragons' mouth as a mist while it was sleeping. Then he unleashed the potion and started killing it from the inside. The red dragon was unable to act. And while my character took quiet a few hits, he ended up *soloing a dragon*

[@NoahofWill]

@@nivyan I like your enthusiasm for your favorite thing, but please don't frame it as "this is why I think my fave is better than your fave." That's very much what this comment came across as from an outsider's perspective, and people have a right to like what they like without having others try to convince them otherwise.

[@nivyan]

@@NoahofWill Just because you interpret my comment as negative or arrogant, doesn't mean it was or that everyone else does. I literally said: [...] if you like the playstyle, but want a bit more magic If you interpret that as me saying arcane trickster is better, then you fail to understand what I said. Assuming I'm hostile is extremely self-destructive. On the other hand, if you're genuinely just making an observation and giving out advice: Thank you! Seriously. That's really nice of you. But I made the decision long ago to be willing to step on people' toes to get my point across. I will then apologise if I've accidentally said something hurtful or ignorant - but more often than not, I'll quickly identify who understands what I'm trying to say and who are just looking for a fight or being idiots.

[@TheRifild]

Mine is Anji from Rurouni Kenshin (or Samurai X), they even look a little bit similar

[@nicholassmieleski9710]

@@nivyanguy just said he has a new favorite class. There’s no need to “um actually this is better” him with a 5 paragraph essay. He didn’t ask for alternatives

[@nay-knee7779]

I feel tears in my eyes each time I watch this from the show. An actual improvement from the stream.

[@psyberian]

I think Grog doing it alone makes it more personal and more character growth for him

[@scepta101]

For me, season 1 was a good adaptation, but season 2 was an elevation of the source material

[@jimmymiller1313]

I agree with all the takes here so far!

[@nivyan]

@@scepta101 Agreed! It feels like the first season was for the fans. Then they realised they got something really good going and went all-in on telling the best story possible. Critters/fans would have a really hard time to argue that changes are bad when they're this good.

[@danwest9628]

*tears in my eyes* shut up bro no you're crying.

[@dylanking6871]

GS: My strength comes from my heart! EG: Wrong. ...... GS: My strength comes from my friends! EG: Correct. Countless Anime Protagonist: My friends ARE my heart!

[@roqisas]

all kingdom hearts quotes:

[@HereticalHorus]

Sora off in the distance: "My FrIeNdS aRe My PoWeR" or "YoU'lL nEvEr TaKe KaIrI's HeArT"

[@darkestlight660]

There's a difference in terms I think is quite important Having emotions, or ethics, or care for others vaguely is all nice but it's not actually anything. Like, okay and? Knowing that your strength specifically comes from others- that you became truly strong to protect them- that's specific, that's purpose

[@pumpkin7446]

EG: The FitnessGram™ Pacer Test is a multistage aerobic capacity test that progressively gets more difficult as it continues. The 20 meter pacer test will begin in 30 seconds. Line up at the start. The running speed starts slowly, but gets faster each minute after you hear this signal....

[@elijahhayter3026]

@@HereticalHorusleAD mE uNtO eVeRlAsTiNg DaRkNeSs!

[@peteralexandergraae2830]

Liam O'Brian be like: Raw Power is no substitute for true strength.

[@voicingdragoon7]

I understood that reference!

[@karahtar]

Nothing like a good Tyrande reference to go along the Stormrage brothers

[@peteralexandergraae2830]

Does anyone else think about that his name is Vax-Illidan. His twin is an archer and his love is a druid... who turns into a white tiger

[@VDA19]

​@@peteralexandergraae2830Vax'ildan. He becomes champion of the Raven Queen and Illidan served Kurtalos Ravencrest

[@Jason_Wilhelm]

Some may think that heart and friends are the same. See Grog is the muscle of the party see before he would do a lot of the heavy lifting for the party essentially he would only rely on himself to carry his burdens and theirs. Grog needed to learn to trust in his friends in doing so he could let down the weight and focus his full strength on what was in front of him. The reason heart is wrong is because even though it sounds noble in the end it is still self reliance and not letting the burden down.

[@raytimorason9691]

Well said

[@Jason_Wilhelm]

@@raytimorason9691 thank you

[@GamesAreAHobby]

I love the detail when Groon appears to Grog @8:18. In prior scenes, Groon was noticeably shorter than grog (see @3:28). but this is a vision of how GROG SEES GROON. Imposing, powerful, wise.

[@l0kk016]

Well to be fair this is skinny grog and he's also in a... Situation, so to say

[@sen7826]

Grog was shrunk in this part of the story, remember?

[@cubic_regent]

@@sen7826 was he ever shrunk in the dnd campaign? its been a while I forget

[@ryanjackson6298]

​@@cubic_regentno, but making him slimmer was a visual way of representing that his strength score was reduced in the game

[@cubic_regent]

@@ryanjackson6298 ohh i didnt know he also lost his strength score

[@ShinGallon]

I've never watched the original campaign so seeing these comparisons with the best scenes from S2 are fascinating to me. It's also a little weird hearing the same voices but not seeing the character's faces, but rather the players/actors.

[@savingpyro]

Anyone else see Bumi from ATLA when Matt describes him?

[@ninnusridhar]

Literally what i was gonna comment. Old wizened dude who's built like a tank and will fuck you up. That's my man bumi!

[@anthonysunseri1865]

I never realized it until you pointed it out. I also got a lot of Master Roshi vibes.

[@redwillow1853]

Bumi would be a great visual for a drunken master monk.

[@cyprienramis1304]

Personally I see street fighter 6 Ryu bur black.

[@Frozenkoldfury]

Earthbreaker Groon encapsulates so much of why I love the Monk Class.

[@Melik565]

I was so hyped when I saw the Earthbreaker on screen...actual chills

[@Volgrand]

I just realized a little detail. When Grog asks if he'll show him the next step, he answers "I already have". Immediately, Grog picks up the black sword. Yep, he did show him, but Grog did not see.

[@RuneKatashima]

In the wise words of one of my favorite characters; "The weapon does not make the man."

[@magicalfungi3206]

@@RuneKatashima unless its like super cursed with an ancient bloodthirsty evil....

[@peoswriter1]

@@magicalfungi3206No, that weapon un-makes the man.

[@C_A_I_N_N]

It's twofold because not only did he make him drop the sword but he showed him that he could beat the shit out of him because he didn't have his friends there to support him and make up for his own weaknesses

[@oddfreaks6452]

I remember my dnd character I played as in my first campaign. A half Orc monk named Fenrir Dryden who sought redemption for his crimes to his monastery and the death of his friends by traveling and trying to help people. He had rage in him that could cloud his mind, like he was born a barbarian but became a Monk as a kid, later on one of the coolest RP/Combat moments I had was during when he had Fear cast on him. At the time he was level 10, 8 monk, 2 Barbarian as to say he’s beginning to regain his old habits and trying to find the balance, and then when faced with his greatest fear he saw his old self, a barbarian criminal, a murderer and a beast. His strength is his friends and the balance in himself he gained by fighting with them. He no longer feared the monster and accepted it )in combat I used that ability Monks have that allows them to break out of charm or frightened conditions) and in Bruce Lee fashion (open hand strength monk, I was kung fu hulk) I killed the one who cast fear on my friends and scared the bejeesus out of the lackeys. I love this game with all my heart.

[@scepta101]

That’s amazing! One of the best things about the game is the ability to twist a beautiful narrative like this out of what is just game mechanics on the surface

[@simdivya]

this is such an amazing character arc! love it

[@ravenburns6600]

Imagine seeing someone kill 3 orcs in 6 seconds with their bare hands. You'd shit your pants. xD

[@aymericrichard6931]

gives me chills each time, one of the best moments & greatest arcs

[@LUGIGGGGGG]

Chills every time i watch Grog and friends battle with his uncle

[@xKade101]

you timed that ending perfectly

[@consolescrub4031]

I get my strength from comedic comments and dad jokes. Also it's interesting that a monk (while naturally serving as a good spiritual NPC) beat the long rest out of a barbarian. Mechanically a barbarian is probably one of the hardest counters to a monk (although the RP interactions between the two will never not be great, especially in a romance arc).

[@The_Crimson_Witch]

Ish. This monk is specifically a way of the open hand monk, and was clearly at least 17th level (probably 18th). Open Hand's 17th level ability is bonkers good, and would allow him to stand toe to toe with a much lower level berserker barbarian no issue. Especially if his high Ki save DC allows him to get stunning strike off, thus preventing Grog from raging (as we saw in the animated show)

[@jeroen92]

Hand to hand a monk shits on a barbarian. With weapon, probably not unless they roll poorly on their con saves.

[@peteralexandergraae2830]

As any Monk, or Liam O'Brian, can tell you: "Raw power is no substitute for true strength"

[@JohnQDarksoul]

@@jeroen92 Depends on the additional, but in 5e a barbarian that's raging has advantage on strength checks, so grappling and shoving a monk prone would basically annihilate them.

[@consolescrub4031]

@@The_Crimson_Witch Oh yes. It's very much a level mismatch but from my admittedly limited experience, barbarian skills and stats translate pretty good against monks. Advantage on initiative should theoretically allow them to rage before most monks act unless they really are taken by surprise like here, their improved moment speed allows them to mostly keep up with the monk if they try to retreat, rage is very effective against most monks due to their requirement for close range and reliance on physical damage (bearbarian is also good against sun soul). Additionally most barbarians would have high constitution and proficiency with constitution saving throws. AFAIK the only class which would be better against stunning strike is a paladin with resilient. Additionally monks defence is their high AC, evasion and ability to deflect missiles which are generally negligible to a reckless barbarian unless they rely on throwing weapons. Grappling also cancels out patient defence and raging barbarians will always be good at that.

[@DiggityBippityDnD]

You've been doing a great job for people like me who don't know much about the campaigns, but are curious about how these specific events played out! Thank you for all of your hard work!

[@TPBurrow]

Most of the animation is very true to the Campaign, there is some creative freedom to accommodate schedules and budgets etc, but having seen both and being one of the Kickstarter backers, I am happy with what we got so far. If I helped you understand and enjoy it a bit more then I pass this beacon to you, go forth and spread the good word of CR. Continue making reactions vids, we adore them and look forward to seeing your journey:)

[@themoviecritic1092]

This scene was so cool

[@themocaw]

I have a man crush on Earthbreaker Groon.

[@lord9279]

So he just sits there all day waiting for someone to walk in so he can beat the living shit out of them hahaha

[@magnetronman298]

Ike Amadi's voice legitimately sent chills down my back, he's so good

[@jacksfacts20]

Earth breaker Groon’s badassery was so great that I come back to this scene at least once a month.

[@warlord5295]

Honestly this guy is what i would consider to be a hybrid of a viking and a shaolin monk like a monk who worships Odin and warriors and unlike shaolin he kills without a problem and basically fights for sake of honor glory and strength.

[@Kishandreth]

In this setting, Kord the Stormlord is the god of storms, battle and warfare. The monk class is heavily based on eastern unarmed martial arts and the stories told about it. So yes, it would be a shaolin monk worshiping something akin to Odin, where greatness comes through battle. They may kill in combat, because that happens when two mortals engage in mortal combat, but one should be merciful when the foe is beaten. If they surrender or are incapacitated, there is not glory in killing them. It's not about how many kills you score in a battle, but how hard the fight was and you still won.

[@centurionquincy3899]

I didn’t realize how much of the show actually came from Matt for this scene. Such good word choices

[@spartaguy5338]

Groon is a character I definitely want to see more of

[@AdKThomas]

When Matt just wanted to put Akuma in the game!

[@lucaswickmansound]

*”hesaidmyfullname* 😳”

[@jefthereaper]

Interesting, so during the tabletop the entire party was there? Usually I'm not all for changes to source material, but surprisingly the team responsible for the animated show is making more good calls then bad ones (from what I can see.)

[@NtoTheM]

Yep. Two of them even got to fight Goon alongside Grog, otherwise the fight would've been over too quick. ^^

[@xanderlaskey2753]

Well Matt is the one who is writing the show also so he is just improving his story

[@alexishayes9935]

The team writing the show is primarily the cast from the game. So they are changing things around slightly to refine from the table improvisation, improve flow and delivery of the story.

[@kingkoch3036]

Nice Editing! LOVE IT ❤

[@crowtsoff]

Ike Amadi is perfect voice for Groon. And I think he can be very good Thordak since Lance passed away

[@MajorUrsa-gw4xf]

Lance got his lines done before he passed, fortunately

[@crowtsoff]

If i wouldn't know it, I'd asum that's not him in trailer

[@norsetexan809]

He looks cooler with a beard.

[@tommasocreatini2513]

Whoever did this theme ‘where does your strength come from ?’ Deserves an award

[@Sootielove]

I loved this arc for Grog

[@k.g.7591]

Look at young Matt Mercer. God has it been so long?

[@thexorode]

Am I the only one who thinks of Gouken from Street Fighter when I see Earthbreaker Groon??

[@sweett3253]

Holy shit I see it

[@dgaan_dragonking]

i look at the legend of vox machina as an alternate timeline from the original campaign. one in which Tiberius Stormwind never joined the group. i can't wait to see how things are altered with the white dragon and draconia because of the missing of Tiberius Stormwind

[@drizzxoxo]

Heya love this stuff binging it all. Could you include which episode(s) these are from in the campaign want to check them out more too. Thanks again!

[@TPBurrow]

Sure thing!

[@Swimmer-ts6yr]

cool so sam has always had crazy things to drink from

[@УильямДефо-э2е]

I'm pretty sure that authors get their inspiration from Kimbo Slice

[@DjVanillaGuerilla]

All these years later of watching these guys..... I just clue in that that is Eric from Boy Meets World 🤦‍♂

[@deacondawg1416]

when they all realise he's turned into punchbag.

[@blaxkstar1431]

This scene was so cold

[@ladslounge2698]

In the game I played in , our paladin and I had a similar scenario, as a life cleric I should rely on the team but I always felt like ai had to be in the front with the paladin and rely on no other and the previous champion of Bahamut humbled me in a 1 on 1, then in our rematch he asled if I had learned my lesson and I entered the dome/battle field with the paladin and the rest of the party and we best him ... just barely. Earned me an Exalted Shield though

[@NoActuallyGo-KCUF-Yourself]

Good talk.

[@hilliajf]

Jesus... nearly missed Talisin... must have been a rough 8 years buddy

[@eddboy7137]

i know a blackstar reference when i see one ahaha nice

[@_Woody_]

What is Groons theme? I simply must know it. These norse tribal chants are doing it for me. Anybody has the wisdom to answer me?

[@triplettobi4424]

.

[@darkserpent7191]

IKE AMADI!!

[@SilverScribe85]

How do you think the Z Fighters would fare against Groon?

[@Brakkenimation]

why do you think they changed the original line of "Where do you find your strength"? Has more impact and feels almost like a creed of the temple to me, whereas "Where does your strength come from" just sounds like a question. The second season adapted a lot of things really well, but I was confused by this minor change.

[@Exvaris]

Just curious, what happened to the Kill Box Table to Screen video? I was looking for it just now and couldn't find it.

[@TPBurrow]

Yeah that one got deleted, it had the F word in the first 7 seconds, So I re-edited it and uploaded it and YT got upset with that as it was seen as repeat posting of the same material, by then I had already deleted the first one. So sadly its gone for eternity.

[@Exvaris]

Man, that's unfortunate. Thanks for responding in any case!

[@TPBurrow]

But all of them were deceived, for another highlight was made in secret for just one person, rescued from the archives late at night, adjusted to slip past the KZbin watchers on the walls and clipped of feathers so that the Amazonian warriors did not get offended. by the Grace of the almighty edit suite the highlight was forged and passed to @Exvaris with love for a rainy day. ♥ kzbin.info/www/bejne/gXO8pGeCotKYiLM

[@brysonandrews1043]

Is that Eric Matthews?

[@bartoszysak3530]

Anyone knows the name of Groons theme ? Can't find it anywhere.

[@bartoszysak3530]

"temple of the stormlord" - found it!

[@AztonMC]

2:01 Aa-

[@AmazonianBarbarian]

I can tell you where I get mine. I was born with the life I deserved taken from me and now I do the work to rebuild what was stolen so that I can finally find the love and peace that I deserve.

[@AmazonianBarbarian]

For context I survived from being abused by a narcissist

[@UNKNOWN-qh3lh]

what ep was this in the actual campaign?

[@Minifig3D]

What episodes are these from? 🤔

[@TPBurrow]

2.2 "The Rematch" (1x23) 2.3 "Return to Vasselheim" (1x43) 2.4 "Loose Ends" (1x84) 2.5 "A Bard's Lament" (1x85) 2.6 "The Endless Atheneum" (1x106) 2.7 "The Ominous March" (1x109)

[@adastra3147]

Who's the eight player?

[@Celedam]

The _two_ guests are fellow voice actors and friends of the show Mary Elizabeth McGlynn and Will Friedle. They play Zahra and Kashaw, respectively, in both the game and the animated series.

[@JnEricsonx]

@@Celedam Kinda funny I met them for other reasons before I ever even watched CR. I've now met 5/8 of CR cast, 3 to go in 2 months.

[@Celedam]

@@JnEricsonx I don't care.

[@faeeqsolomons8061]

Anybody else notice that groon has goku colours

[@Celedam]

You meant "Anybody else notice that groon is dressed like a buddhist monk, same as goku", right? I really hope that's what you meant, because it'd be rather sad if your knowledge of the world is limited to what you've seen in cartoons…

[@faeeqsolomons8061]

Groon is wearing blue and orange u freaking weirdo also its rather sad that I gotta point out that goku is in an anime and not a cartoon

[@Celedam]

@@faeeqsolomons8061 Okay, let me rephrase: I really hope you're a small child, because you speak like and have the knowledge of a small child. Groon isn't dressed like Goku. Groon and Goku are both dressed like Buddhist monks - specifically, Shaolin. That's the point. The Western idea of heavily stylized, almost superhuman martial arts is based on Shaolin kung fu. If you don't believe me, just do an image search for "Shaolin monk". And there is no meaningful difference between cartoons and anime. "Anime" is just the Japanese word for "animation". It's a medium, not a genre. In Japan, everything from the silliest children's show to the works of Hayao Miyazaki is called "anime". If you keep stamping your little feet and insisting "Anime is better!", then you really are a small child.

[@splitdragon3004]

@@faeeqsolomons8061clearly you’re under 12. Anime is just Japanese cartoon and a style of cartoon. The two characters are dressed as monks, not everything is Goku

[@lord9279]

@@Celedameven so no need to be a snobby c*nt lol

[@anthonysunseri1865]

I didn't really like how they handled this in the show. I understand they have a lot of story to fit in and have to cut a lot of it for time constraints, but rushing through each character arc made it feel really bland.

[@Fearienify]

?????? All of s1 was for Percy, all of s2 for Grog Tf you mean

[@anthonysunseri1865]

@@Fearienify I misspoke, I meant to say "scene" instead of character arcs.

[@Freshmaker420]

@@anthonysunseri1865 probably impossible to fit all that into a series, i think they handled it pretty well

[@darkestlight660]

Disagree hard, show did it better than the live stream

[@VillainousMuse]

Each has its charm. The livestream is an actual D&D game, thus... is more free form and has the time for that kind of business. A show has to tell a cohesive narrative within a certain window that doesn't have time for improvised humor and dicking around.

[@ArthurTorrias]

I felt like Grog's whole arc in season 2 was really rushed. Grog just randomly stumbles into this place and gets the daylights kicked out of him. Groon criticizes Grog for relying on Craven Edge even though he's never used it up to this point. He kept asking Grog where his strength comes from but nothing up to this point has shown that he was lacking or had no idea where his said strength came from. It was like Groon was forcing an identity crisis on Grog even though he wasn't having one. We get 1 scene of Craven Edge whispering to Grog with him thinking it was Scanlan before he is already talking to it while taking a dookie? The dookie scene was also not nearly as funny this time around. Instead of Grog slowly losing himself to Craven Edge's hunger, it just seems to happen over night. Then he breaks Craven Edge losing all his muscles and it's just 2-3 eps of cringey crybaby Grog. I don't exactly remember. I understand what they were trying to do I think. Groon sows the seeds of Grog's lack of knowing where his true strength comes from. Then he loses his muscles, the things he always felt where his strength came from, only to later realize that his friends are his true strength. I just think it was done really poorly.

[@MrBud1911]

It was a boring, cliche, shōnen-anime moment at best, and the DM neutering a PCs agency to force a story moment at worst. Mercer is usually better than this.

[@anthonysunseri1865]

I agree with you on how it was really rushed, but keep in mind they have a lot of content to cover. The writers probably condensed this part of Grog's story was probably because of a short straw situation, which sucks because it's an important part for Grog in the stream.

[@Super-Saiyan9665]

Primarily due to needing to cut content to prioritize what to animate, it would cost a literal fortune to try and animate and voice act the entirety of the campaign

[@VillainousMuse]

I haven't seen campaign 1 but I thought this was done pretty well. Grog bumbles around like the big idiot he is, therefore he is drawn to a temple of warriors. Groon beats the stuffing out of him - as it is a temple of warriors, that's what they do - therefore showing Grog that his raging Barbarian shtick isn't as potent as he thinks it is. Therefore Grog begins to rely on the evil artifact he found even more, therefore injures Pike by accident. Therefore he realizes he can't go on with Craven Edge and destroys it, therefore taking the false strength with it. Therefore, Grog has some angst before he starts having to think outside the box but being clever will only get him so far. Therefore, he confronts his Uncle but blind courage will only get you so far. Therefore, Uncle kicks the stuffing out of him and threatens his best friend, therefore he gets his strength back. Kevdak still has a vestige of power, therefore Grog still needs help from his friends to kill him. It's all very fluid as far as storytelling goes and has a very logical and in character through line.

[@gravityfel7896]

​@@VillainousMuse The problem with people these days is they don't understand efficiency in storytelling. Just because the story felt "rushed" didn't mean it wasn't well thought-out.

[@nodatesape9124]

Why did they have to write the animation like a shitty marvel movie? Not everything has to be a shit one liner. Grog at the table wasnt a smart ass. He was humble in front of Groon. Anime grog is just... dumb-Thor-lite. COMPLETELY destroys the moment. Because of lazy writing.

[@thefiendish186]

The Table Top Version of Groon sounds kind of like Clone Wars Darth Maul