Bat Stack

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[@cheesus7672]

"We can't stop here. This is bat country."

[@skyesfury8511]

It's criminal that this comment is not the top rated comment on this video.

[@PuckeredMeatball]

awful weird that the journo binge I've been on brought me a '75 Hunter Thompson interview just before this.

[@davidenko2468]

These poor bastards will see them soon enough

[@DamianoGheri]

*Bruce Wayne approves this doomstack*

[@anthonyhunkowski115]

The first thing I thought when I saw the doomstack was batman been reading too much DC comics I guess?

[@incelstar]

Bruce wayne is batman? 🙉

[@willzwiadowca7316]

@@incelstar there is not single proof for thay

[@Scorpion122178]

take my like you bastard lol

[@cobrazax]

ISABELLA IS BATMAN

[@Aceofkiwi]

The correct term is "Guano Stack", given it is composed of bats

[@jerubaal101]

Dangit, I had to delete my comment after I saw you beat me to it.

[@werrkowalski2985]

Covid Stack

[@alilhard]

Let's just start a new series boys, "Rate my crapstack. The more painful, the better. And for our first contender let's introduce you to the free zombie army led by a no magic necromancer !"

[@LordAlucard454]

Stack have to be able to win at least something

[@alilhard]

@@LordAlucard454 Well yeah, it does win... against lvl 1 minor settlement garrisons :')

[@attila2246]

We already had the grail reliquae 'doomstack'

[@Ahrone1586]

@@attila2246 where

[@DestroyerRyan]

@@Ahrone1586 Video was called 0/10

[@Javier-rm5cr]

So basically they are flying piranhas, hmm interesting.

[@beneficent2557]

With ebola

[@Hookahitter]

You could cut the discust with a knife when Legend looked at the tech tree.

[@Okoii]

SKREEEEEE That being said, i minmaxed this army and it performes insanely well on normal. I could send you the army i used and it would probably do better than this but on Very Hard battle difficulty they will still probably under perform.

[@arewe9647]

Hey, it normal difficult, meaning no AI cheat. It is not baby difficulty , it NORMAL difficulty

[@devidbaguetta4803]

I also prefer normal because you can use all units and don't have to overrely on range or SE Doomstacks

[@charlesdean2781]

There are 3 difficulty settings to me. 1. Melee king 2. Fair and balanced 3. Range oNly please Very hard feels like it just means “I prefer range units and spells only.”

[@Garret007]

@@charlesdean2781 Yea, definitely think you could describe the difficulties as exactly those 3 :P

[@dark_side_cookies]

​@@charlesdean2781 I'm currently playing a Vlad VC game on Hard battle difficulty with mostly melee armies and it's still a lot of fun. When you get a horde of Grave Guard with Great Weapons and a Mortis Engine plowing forward, the enemy tends to melt fairly quickly. Throw in some rear charges with Blood Knights, Vargheists, or Terrorgheists, and it's pretty much GG. Tactical casts with Wind of Death, Pit of Shades, and Penumbral Pendulum can really soften them up as well. On the most difficult battles I do usually resort to corner camping or spell spam, but I don't mind that. Getting off a Wind of Death while the enemy is stuck on your blob of troops and causing 500+ casualties is sooooo satisfying. >:)

[@PitchBlackYeti]

How to make the best out of a bat situation I'll see myself out

[@discountdavyjones5002]

Now that’s a real flock of Doom.

[@mbm3155]

The strength of bats is when they clump they all pretty much still hit. 2v1 or 3 with skeletons isn’t hard but bats can 6v1 without any positioning

[@danmartinac3266]

Ya 157 speed is jetting. Can maneuver on anybody. And 52 melee defense is stout

[@Lopezalicous]

Its not a crapstack, it's a flapstack.

[@ashisunblade]

Legend getting internal errors when he sees someone who doesn't like skeletons :D

[@stevestarplosius2587]

Legend uses cheese to break AI: Very nice! Players makes an army that breaks AI: ' The AI performed extremely badly, they could have won that battle'

[@deni140492deni]

Bats: weak against armour. Oh well, let's fight the dwarfs.

[@ArlanKels]

Yup, one of the reasons I went for them. Strong melee units with strong armor.

[@MrWyald]

I was amazed at seeing how powerful these could be in Okoii’s video. Compared to free buffed skeletons not all that much better besides mobility. However compared to every time I used them it was a huge improvement that could be fun to switch up for an Isabella army.

[@DerRusher]

well, in sieges they would outperform skellies, i am pretty sure. just fly over the wall and wipe the 2-3 units in the settlement center, fly away, repeat.

[@nicholasgonzalez531]

Wasn't it harpies and under rakarth?

[@Sumlildood]

@@nicholasgonzalez531 Nope, hes done both but his most recent was just bats being buffed to high hell lol

[@mikabakker1]

What if you have 4 full bat armies together. 4 bats on every unit. Ez win

[@CapybaraConnoisseur89]

He didn't use full potential of Bats yet probably

[@kortez7744]

Absolutely love that comedically petty "Suck on that!" that he said after getting Close Victory, when the submitter had gotten a Pyrrhic one 😂

[@ArlanKels]

Yeah, I just threw the bats into melee and went in with bella and started smacking dwarves. I'm a very impatient player on the battlefield.

[@MrSpartanspud]

Probably explains why you play on normal.

[@krom4773]

@@MrSpartanspud so do you lol

[@ArlanKels]

@@MrSpartanspud Hell to the yeah.

[@MrSpartanspud]

@@krom4773 I'm a giga Chad Uber difficulty. They enabled it just for me.

[@almasyelesbayev736]

Not the stack that we need, but the one we deserve!

[@fawi9155]

I really like that "non-efficient" armies get covered as well. Seeing other options beside the usual armies is very nice imo (eaven though i will probably never recruit armies like that :D).

[@krausercruz2780]

its good to explore them every now and then because you never know when a new doomstack may appear

[@Ludvik789]

I play on normal difficulty because I don't buy into the AI units just getting stronger. Their spearmen shouldn't beat my greatswords. If the AI had gotten smarter or more units that had been something else. And I've been in some rough fights too, so I'm not getting bored.

[@torum6448]

Yep same, i bump the campaign difficulty if i want something more challenging or occasionally play on hard battle difficulty if i play a faction that has tons of ranged firepower. I want the enemy skavenslaves to behave like skavenslaves not like chosen, and the enemy chosen to behave like chosen not like chaos space marines.

[@BittermanAndy]

Very Hard campaign / Normal battles. It's the best way to play IMO.

[@GeraltofRivia22]

@@BittermanAndy 100% agree. The game is so boring on very hard battle difficulty because if you want to win, you have to spam ranged, magic or single entities in every army for every faction.

[@Arbaaltheundefeated]

@@GeraltofRivia22 Exactly, or even having to employ stupid AI exploits like baiting out all their ammunition by running lords back and forth in front of them, or corner/border cheesing... I don't even understand how anyone can enjoy playing like that, and yet there are many who not only do so but will try to ridicule anyone who doesn't play on their 'elite haxxor gamer' level... smh. Honestly the much-maligned AI of these games are perfectly fine too if you just play like a normal damned person using sensible tactics instead of cheesy tricks and exploits.

[@Debilinside]

​@UCLUvz-WbSigQj_EQIXvq1RA On very hard its a much closer fight than it should be. As Legend says in almost every video melee is crap on very hard. You need some serious cheese and stacking to get anything worthwhile. (like 95% resistance or extremely high 100+ melee defense) 2 units of clanrat can bog down black guards or phoenix guard for a very long time, even anti infantry units have trouble with trash if they dont have mass to move around. I feel playing on very hard simply limits and narrows down your tactical options as for most faction a balanced army simply doesnt work. Magic>Monsters>Ranged>..........>even more......>.a bit more......>the rest 70% of the units.

[@logandaley1544]

Even if it’s kind of crappy seeing a flock of bats descend on a unit and surround it looked freaking scary

[@Achillez098]

"Fly my pretties! Fly, fly! AHAHAHAHA" -Isabella Von Carstein

[@whoaitstiger]

When you have enough Winds left over at the end of a battle, sometimes you just gotta' go "Nehek with it." I'll see myself out.

[@kobeathris4552]

I think one of the big advantages bats had here is how often they were getting rear attacks. It's like the same reason dire wolves are so good chasing things down.

[@sheltoniousmaximus6117]

Alfred: "Why bats, Master Wayne?" Bruce: "Bat's frighten me......it's time my enemies shared my dread"

[@jarnMod]

Years of playing and I've just realized these bats scream like Xenomorphs

[@GrendelJapan]

If 22:30 - 24:00 doesn't make it to your all time greatest hits reel, it'll be an absolute crime! I challenge anyone to listen to that and not break out laughing. and that voice when the cheese master chimes in is serious gold! great video! Also, bonus points for the ending too - "I have no problem with bats in real life" - more gold. Also, I love seeing the videos that are slightly cheese adjacent, especially if the cheese master is going to chime in signaling his displeasure periodically. Videos where you don't use big cheese and have more varied army comps are really interesting and could be like a whole new product line for you. -Cheers!

[@Pitrah]

Honestly that's really impressive, dwarves tend to be really hard to mow down in general due to their natural high armor values and decent magic res stat =0

[@Your_Paramour]

Wind of death would cut right through them.

[@lokistyrbiorn823]

Ai is broken, majority of the army was busy picking up daisies while Legend was picking off units one by one. This type of AI behavior has become much more commen since the last update and it really sucks

[@SpartanRush5th]

@@lokistyrbiorn823 Yeah I just fought a siege battle against dark elves and they didn't put anyone on the walls, just had them all stacked up in a corner. It's getting dumb.

[@lokistyrbiorn823]

@fukuweebsnfurries animeistrash yes, it does not always happen but when it does it is very noticible

[@crhomeboy]

that was enjoyable thx for posting this way more fun to watch than a skeleton stack all blobbed together while watching you wind of death over and over

[@CharliMorganMusic]

Very Hard just isn't fun. I paid for the whole roster and I intend to use the whole roster, damnit. Normal is how the game ought to be played.

[@ramezhachicho1777]

@TheTower TheHermit He's saying that on very hard you need to use cheesy doomstacks and exploitative tactics. Or at the very least there are a lot of units that are simply not competitive enough to use. You don't HAVE to run one trick pony armies. But the less impressive units get left behind by the more demanding difficulty.

[@ttvv88]

Normal just can't keep me awake. I paid for the whole games and I intend to be entertained by the whole games, damnit. Legendary is how the game ought to be played.

[@Borisol]

@TheTower TheHermit Melee infantry is pretty impotent on the higher difficulties, which incentivizes people to use ranged spam or magic spam to make up for it.

[@Scorpion122178]

I usually just play Multiplayer if I ever want to play with the lower tier units.

[@Mario-kf3ej]

you will get what you wanted in Warhammer 3 ... they already said they will rollback bonuses in meele in VH in last part of trilogy so close combat armies like Khorne or Norsca can actually be viable.

[@Lord_Inquisitor_Ignis]

NANANANANANANANANA BATSTACK

[@maciejmatuszewski9736]

Quick! To the Bat-stack! ( Insert music and screen rotation ) :D

[@TheUltrahypnotoad]

KAPOW!

[@danmartinac3266]

157 speed. Better then anything a skeleton can do. Mobility is king

[@Muck006]

The dwarfs are probably "undecided" because the bats are FLYING units which they usually can not initiate an attack against.

[@ArlanKels]

Yup and 'Bella was superior to them all in a 1v1 comparison according to the game code.

[@TheSpaceWomble]

The good thing about playing on normal difficulty is that you can play the campaign however you like, no cheese required (mostly)

[@Charlys787]

It would nice to see how a fully buffed Vargheist army performs. Not that I expect it to be cost effective.

[@OpiatesAndTits]

They take a lot of damage because they are large. You want a mix like bats to kill spears and stuff anti large. The real problem I think is the bug that’s killing monstrous cav and regular cav like crazy

[@krayos13]

@@OpiatesAndTits The bug is really not that big of a deal, I've just done a campaign with lizardmen using horned ones in one army and kroxigors in another one and I never saw it, not once in like 20 manually fought battles. The bug should be fixed but people are WILDLY blowing out of proportion how severe it is.

[@gts2550]

​@@krayos13 How do you deal with the stickiness problem of cavalry in such an army? I'm talking about the part where every time they charge, couple units get stuck and then they ignore pull back orders repeatedly. Honestly it's insufferable to me and props to you for your patience.

[@ricex2]

lore wise this is 10/10 Fun wise this is also 10/10, especially for those who had enough of skeleton cheese stacks the conventional free calcium wind of death is powerful, yet VERY boring. every army is the same and you fight almost all battles the same way.

[@MultiEminemguy]

24:51 Correct me if im wrong, but if she was flying her army would just rout due to no ground units?.

[@spartan2051]

Yes

[@MalacayHooves]

You right. But why use fell bats spam in a first place? And Isabella on a hellsteed awesome with skellie spam.

[@user-xu1fp6sp3k]

they would not route but they would crumble and just die

[@Shero1337]

@@MalacayHooves Cuz variety is fun

[@PuckeredMeatball]

A group of fell bats is called a MONCH of fell bats

[@DukeofItaly]

Lmao I remember someone asking on a livestream about doomstacks other than skeletons and he jokingly suggested bats

[@mikabakker1]

Was thinking about this yesterday about a bat stack and today you uploaded one. What a coincidence.

[@quint3ssent1a]

Great minds think alike 🤪🤪🤪🤪

[@DanMcLeodNeptuneUK]

HOLY SHIT that was a VETERAN dwarf stack! Come on don't underplay this, that was an incredible achievement! To be fair though with the lord buffs and tech upgrades, skeletons trade really well with infantry.

[@danmartinac3266]

I like 157 speed vs anything those skellys offer. Speed is the king of battle

[@sokar_rostau]

And those veteran Dwarves were defeated by a tier 1 "Weak Against Armour" unit that can get a whopping +3 AP from tech. Compare this to the time he rated a Blood Knight doomstack 7.5(?). Vlad did about 75% of the damage with magic, then he threw in the Blood Knights and lost about half of them.

[@TheLordPage]

Haven’t seen the end yet but the subtitles said ‘fail bat stack’ 🤔

[@DanMcLeodNeptuneUK]

FAIL BATS haha accurate

[@chapter_brother5437]

18:48 One of your units actually had terror, it was displayed on one of the units card for a split of a second. Not sure which one tho.

[@indrickboreale7381]

This army has got two banners that provide terror

[@ArlanKels]

@@indrickboreale7381 Yup. From all the sacking and sacking and sacking I did and all the fighting I only got a handful of actual things. I was a bit disappointed. Plus the damned bats just refused to level up.

[@futonrevolution7671]

@@ArlanKels With the sheer number of bats that can attack a single unit, that xp is going to be spread pretty thin. *Especially* against garrisons. You're going to need something drastic, like Vladdy Daddy, to level them up.

[@lyrasinclaire1784]

Crap stack? Poop stack? Legend, I think you mean... Guano stack!

[@sliceofbread29yrago52]

Our bats will blot out the sun

[@Legionthecomrade]

The madman actually did it. I remember this being suggested on stream. Fell Bats are one of those units that are just absolute shit against everything. These types of units tends to charge down straight into the blob and as a result are attacked from all angles and just die. Like they completely melt.

[@SpookyGhost999]

*Toccata and Fugue in D Minor sounds*

[@ArlanKels]

I was really curious how well the Bats could do when you pumped them up all the way with everything available, especially in the early game. Took it around to test out different opponents before I finally settled on the Dwarf fight, figuring the Melee heavy dwarf stack would be the toughest foe. Took out forty rats(Mostly skavenslaves) pretty easily and barely had a problem with a 20 stack of Empire squatting in their tier 1 settlement before I threw them at this.

[@iraqiwalker1436]

I've had good results with bats, which is why I usually keep them in my armies for quite a while, but I've never built an army solely around bats.

[@ArlanKels]

@@iraqiwalker1436 Yup, I was surprised by how effective they were as I was sacking the one rat settlement over and over again.

[@shipmcgree6367]

Ah yes, the "Wuhan Stack".

[@nasir6r996]

Terminally underrated comment

[@grilledflatbread4692]

CA must have expected it, that's the reason there's even a mechanic to sync the animations to save cycles

[@skyesfury8511]

17:20 I don't care who you are, if you see a sea of giant bats descend on you like that, you're shitting yourself.

[@SimonLevermann]

Crapstack, Poopstack, I suppose with bats you'd call it a guanostack

[@Ichishi5]

Isabella is destroying dwarfs with bats and covid.

[@V3ngal]

it is soooo not-standart that I really love it!

[@feanedhell]

I had my doubts about this doomstack then legend said isabella doesn’t have her magic, well that sealed it for me

[@rizkyhadi6151]

another bat-man in old world shall come from dwarf kin

[@Kamidon74]

OMG Legend, I saw the PCGAMER article! Congratulations man! :) That's gotta be around a 10-15% boost to viewership I'd imagine (to be conservative about it) Great video as usual, thank you for the great content!

[@josedasilva6885]

Izabella casted Flock of Doom.

[@boomknight1015]

Grom with a troll food is funny as hell with nasty skulkers

[@tempestgrav]

Alfred Hitchcocks "The Bats"

[@scoot_tv]

My man is roasting the poor viewer

[@burkesullivan9086]

Our bats blot out the sun.

[@CromulentEmbiggening]

I was surprised that the bats killed that quarrelers unit so quickly at the beginning. I'm amazed this got a close victory on very hard battle difficulty. Divide and conquer I guess

[@guyincognito1406]

That rage grunt when you looked at the research got me dying.

[@LordDarkhelm]

Is this exceptional, no, does it leave me pleasantly surprised, yes.

[@jerondiovis6128]

It should be named "nananananananana BATSTAAAAACK"

[@wilsonaguiar4646]

Why this look like a reenactment of the scene from Valhensing where the babies go to the town to feed with there mommies lol

[@Hemdael]

16:12 Vampire Counts being sick of Skeleton Spears? That's like being sick of breathing!

[@scepticaltortoise5399]

Nice reference there

[@MouldMadeMind]

@@geonik7 cringe

[@futonrevolution7671]

"I don't like bats! I mean, like, in the game, I don't like the bats. I have no problem with bats, in real life." You started and stopped a dozen threads on the Total War reddits, in as many seconds.

[@Erika_Redmark]

With all skinks (a very cheap unit) now getting poison attack on both melee and ranged attacks very early in the tech tree (poison being arguably the strongest modifier in the game) I reckon a skink javelin stack with a kroxigor Lord (purely for seige attacker) is a great cheap early game stack that still carries into the mid game without any buffs. Can carry into the late game if the Kroxigor lord goes down the red line buffing them

[@gthjzby887]

I usually find bats are really good cause they appear in the raise the dead pool often and so you can attack faster if you use them.

[@Ebb0Productions]

Different strokes for different folks. Well said Legend! I have to keep telling myself that every time I see people use a hero to kite the enemy missile ammo! :D Honestly I die a little inside every time I see a free skeleton warrior army with wind of death spamming. Anything to spice things up and make battles a little interesting is welcome in my book.

[@JWootton]

Commenting for the algorithm

[@Max0Effect]

FOR THE ALGORITHM!

[@Assdafflabaff]

Good sheep, baaa louder for your masters.

[@connorkimball5431]

I knew legend was going to lose a bit of his soul when he saw the free skele tech wasn't researched

[@spikertaker]

Do you want a Batdwarf?! This is how you get a Batdwarf!!!!

[@mbm3155]

Don’t do it with Isabella, a bay doom stack is for the von carstien bloodline like an alt skeleton/zombie spam

[@matthewhall9692]

Quickly!... Swiftly!... Quickly!... Swiftly!...

[@rossdaveni9718]

Worst part about this "doomstack" is the damn noise!

[@ArlanKels]

I play with my game volume set to 0. Makes it a lot easier to use things like these! :D

[@skumfisken]

Whatever their strength may be, the absolute swarm of bats looks real cool!

[@_Meriwether]

_Guano bowls!_ ...collect the whole set!

[@A_Simple_Neurose]

This is the corona stack. Someone should mod poison damage in for these beasties.

[@Icedrake201]

You're saying this would be the one time Helman Ghorst would be useful?

[@BlemmiganGallivanter]

Von Carstein bloodline lord can give free fellbats with the fellnest skill, it makes this stack so easy

[@the1prodig432]

Just imagine being IRL against this. Just a completely dark solid cloud floating over you and then you notice that, “Oh shit, is it…moving?,” but it’s too late. In seconds you can’t see the comrades that were just feet from you. You feel every inch of your body being ripped and torn and it’s complete agony. Begging for your life internally, you close your eyes and swing your battle axe in any direction you can manage to extend your arms but it’s just not enough. For what feels like an eternity you struggle, every part of your body flaring up in pain, yet just as soon as the dark cloud was upon you it is gone. You feel the creatures around you begin to move away and before you know it you can finally extend your arms fully again. Carefully your eyes open and the strength in your knees is almost not enough to keep you standing as your eyes dart around and it comes to you that you are the only one left standing. You look up and the dark cloud is moving away from you, leaving you alone, alone and surrounded by the corpses of those you would have once called brother.

[@MrSehaFi]

hmm yes, a Covid-stack, I see

[@DanMcLeodNeptuneUK]

@13:00 I disagree, I think your bats traded very well in that 'little scuffle'. Look at the damage on the dwarf units. They would have lost if left in melee yes, but considering your units are cheap and healable it was a good trade.

[@Studlybob23]

Might as well just give a score before playing out the video. "This turned out way better than I thought. Still going to give it the same score I had in mind originally though"

[@ulyssestyson6693]

This is how you make bat man

[@EgenSayak]

The anti-epileptic stack...

[@BallsTheDog]

Hearing Isabella shout "SWIFTLY", "QUICKLY" in her dumb accent gives me ptsd flashbacks.

[@sim.frischh9781]

Legend will never become Batman with that attitude XD

[@danpitzer765]

A blanket of bats!

[@Commissarius]

I hope they improve the AI in Warhammer 3 so that they don't just sit back and waste their ammo

[@spartan2051]

In 3K on higher difficulties the AI won’t shoot single entities

[@sonicfan12121]

people hope for better ai since shogun 1

[@futonrevolution7671]

Like Spartan said, they "fixed" that in 3K. It just meant that a single entity could walk up slowly and down-smash. Be careful what you wish for.

[@homelesspirate8404]

the janky AI is the real decider here.

[@Wlerin7]

Cheesing the AI is a valid tactic.

[@kenb7051]

one of the vamp lords reduces fell bats upkeep by 100% they should be using this stack

[@thebrokenmask8304]

swiftly quickly... here goes my isabella campaign ptsd again.

[@7zness]

Wouldn't it be a guano stack?

[@arcadius2569]

I guess the bats being fast flyers kept the dwarves defensive? They can't catch isabella or the bats so the ai just doesn't try at all.

[@ArlanKels]

They can't get to the bats and Isabella was superior to them on an individual basis, so they didn't want to attack her.

[@villepaavolainen1375]

Seems to work really well. Bats won't get stuck so easily and you can herd the enemy around with heroes. Bats are very fast too and can attack in tighter formation. It's like poor vampire's Hippogryph spam

[@alan_clough]

Legend never loses a BATtle.

[@raymoonstar13]

Better tittle: Coronavirus Doomstack Even if this army didn't win, those dwarfs would've died from coronavirus.