Rating a Bladesinger (Melee Infantry) Doomstack

[@wisersamson9000]

"Easier to keep my eye on them.....err ummm....eyes" LEGEND CONFIRMED CYGOR

[@markosimunic4770]

Naaaah he is a skaven.........that lost an eye.

[@Ax_Dj0]

@@markosimunic4770 of the even with loalty

[@bigolbearthejammydodger6527]

one eye is replaced with warpstone.

[@futonrevolution7671]

He's secretly been a vtuber, this whole time!

[@jackfondue639]

Legend is a Fimir Warrior

[@MirchiePSNID]

‘This is viable’ is basically heralding them as the second coming of Sigmar coming from Legend about melee infantry. I love Bladesingers so I was glad to watch this!

[@shorewall]

I know, the fact that he had nothing bad to say is the opposite of damning with faint praise. Blessing with no complaints, from a critical person. :D

[@toddhoward3471]

The other melee infantry doomstack wouldve been the Crimson killerz cause they were literally immortal xD

[@gustavosanches3454]

That's actually in another video

[@botanicvelious]

exaclty!

[@vrxyoungeditor7846]

this one seems cheaper though that one also required you to be late game

[@michaelferguson1514]

Honestly, generic black orcs are super underrated. I did a grimgor play through recently and they were up to 90 weapon strength by default in all of my armies.

[@botanicvelious]

@@michaelferguson1514 normally tho they die so easy and are slow... but when they cant die... :D

[@josephwonsetler389]

Legend: First melee infantry doomstack Crimson killers doomstack: am I a joke to you

[@minerva9104]

That wasn't melee infantry that was clearly monstrous infantry.

[@Louiseholm]

@@minerva9104 i like ya pfp (;

[@toxicfireball2690]

I like how legend was genuinely baffled and surprised at how good the bladesingers were.

[@sillyboy9314]

The way bladesingers are balanced are that they melt through units but are fragile af, so making them unkillable would make them really fucking good

[@fuchsmichael93]

similar to savage orcs in wurrzags faction, i also got them up to 60% physical and 30% missile resistanz with over 100 MA, making glasscannons tanky is the best way to use melee infantery

[@JB-xl2jc]

It's lowkey terrifying to see Ariel covered in blood. They did a good job capturing the whole "Wood Elves are not nice" aesthetic with the latest update.

[@shurtgal009]

deffenitly should have used more healing spells on the infantry, they had taken alot of dmg during combat whilst still having a high entity number allwoing you to save them. usually worthless to do this but they seemed very tanky

[@freddymeisner]

Yeah absolutely. Tons of them had like half health but only lost ten or fifteen units, perfect for heals

[@LegendofTotalWar]

probably right. I'm not used to melee infantry being anything other than cannon fodder. I'm far more accustomed to healing single entities.

[@easytanksgaming3238]

And it should be regrowth instead of earthblood, cos earthblood wouldnt take them healed up quick for sure. Plus regrowth give full vigour, that returns infantry effectiveness))

[@GeraltofRivia22]

Yeah, some units were on less than half health while being on like 97/100 models.

[@zonkrt3463]

On the other hand, the healing at the end of the battle is because single entities get less replenishment. But if a unit has say 97/100 units alive at the end of a battle, their HP will be at 97% regardless of how damaged the entities are, so the healing post battle becomes useless (unless it's something like nehek that can resurrect entities)

[@OtterSpace975]

You can hear him wanting so badly to hate it. But he doesn't.

[@sablesword6239]

One thing I would point out about this that Legend didn't notice is that the Glamourweaver office gives all the Bladesingers in the army Stalk, which mitigates most of their potential vulnerability to artillery and also makes them much better in sieges.

[@IAmebAdger]

With Legend's hide in the forest fighting style I would have replaced glamourweaver with darkweaver for the weapon strength buff tbh

[@sablesword6239]

@@IAmebAdger You don't always get a forest at all, much less one that's as big as what this map had.

[@IAmebAdger]

@@sablesword6239 True, idk if you would even want to take this stack into a non-forested area though, seeing how many forest buffs he relied on in the video.

[@sablesword6239]

@@IAmebAdger That's why I prefer Disciplined over Ariel's Chosen when I build this army myself. You can still get them up near 100 MA anywhere, forest or no, even with fewer heroes.

[@Dan-vo7vc]

@@sablesword6239 how? What bonuses do you use?

[@murazortv]

You can close notifications using ESC.

[@johannesschubert7739]

thanks,

[@kristoferson16]

Thanks!!! :D

[@luisaravenawerner41]

Thanks!

[@gustavosanches3454]

I feel like he should have focused on healing those spellsingers, a lot of them were taking just health dmg while not having the entity numbers drop...

[@JarthenGreenmeadow]

1:36 Ladies and Gentlemen. We got him.

[@erensametkaratas6593]

Ah, melee infantry. Legend's favorite

[@alexf1353]

The audio sounds much better today, good to see that whatever it was got fixed.

[@dantheman13371]

"we're not going to fight this stupid" *lets wizard get caught by a bunch of phoenixes*

[@Sofa-King6914]

Eltharion used his prison ability on her, what was he supposed to do lol

[@booradley6832]

Hm...if only there were some abilities that character could use to make itself tougher in that situation....or able to erase hits it took. Its not just that it got caught, its that it got dumpstered without noticing it that is being really criticized.

[@Sofa-King6914]

Ah yes, the typical backseat gamer moment of expecting the youtuber/streamer to just have absolute perfect micro and flawless attention to every unit on the map. Nevermind that he was busy microing other units on the map, he should have just grown another head that could pay attention to everything else going on too!

[@dionisis_]

Veckteek could have handled this on his own so 0/10

[@shirtlessviking9225]

Vecteek is also basicly the great horned one + tzeench = ULTIMATE CHEESE

[@linushasler6380]

i just googled Veckteek and it gave 0 results. Although non here in youtube. wtf is Veckteek

[@aeth4190]

@@linushasler6380 You are not a true follower of the Great Cheese if you do not know nor worship the Great Veckteek. All Hail the Great Unstoppable Cheese lord !

[@principe5104]

@@linushasler6380 He's a lord in Legend's This is total war campaign

[@ikitclaw1913]

Vecteek would have crushed 70% of the army on his own and then he would run to his Ratling Gun that would finish the job xD Vecteek is OP

[@TheNightkunai]

You can get up to 60-70% resistance without forest modifiers, and as long as you can keep casting Shield of Thorns + Apotheosis you can get it up to the max. -10% ward save office slot -20% physical at base -15% physical red line -10% physical in tech -5% physical ransom captives -5% physical Gaean Vale This gives 10% Ward save & 55% physical at all times. With Shield of Thorns it becomes 87% resistances to physical. With the High mage (that you need for the office) you can get 1 mana costs apotheosis which provides another 10% resistance map wide. With Kemmler trait, branchwraith skill & Atherlorn at max you potentially even have more defences. Exhaustion wide you get -25% from tech and you can get another -44% from a daith forge item. For sieges you can get some asrai spears in their to bump up their missile resistance by 44% (at the cost of MD). Mage wise I would remove ariel (better in a Sisters + Ariel stack) and make it 1 high magic lord + 2 life mages + 1 shadow mage. The life mages can alternate their shield of thorns (cheaper than branchwraiths), the shadow mage can cast the +50% weapon strength spell & harass with offensive spells, and the high mage lord can heal for 1 & provide map wide physical resistance. Besides that having 1-3 glade captains/waystalkers too deal with enemy wizards (biggest danger) is a good idea, and an emergency branchwraith for spell casting. Outside of that your hero's are required for the wardancer drummer (+4 MA on blade/wardancers) & you can equip them with forest spirits, providing -5 leadership in local province.

[@tristanitus9921]

If you use the Highweaver title you lose the Glamourweaver title and therefore stalk for the Bladesingers which is one of the biggest strengths on a none forest map cause it stops you getting shot to pieces before you can engage. Shadows magic doesnt offer you anything life magic or beasts does as wysannas wildform can buff the weapon damage for 30% for a lot cheaper. Youd also miss out on Panns Impenetrable Pelt which is 44 seconds as opposed to 18 for shield of thorns. Ariel is strong whatever army she goes in shes not stronger with a specific lord.

[@TheNightkunai]

@@tristanitus9921 It's more that putting Ariel isn't really worth it nor necessary. As long as the missiles aren't magical you're not going to get shot to pieces. Stalk is unnecessary as you already have 90% resistance. Pann's single target so that's pretty pointless. Shadow has great utility in Pendulum, global speed buff and +50% base & armor piercing weapon strength (Which is good for the bladesingers high AP dmg) Two shield of thorns will perfectly alternate each other, you don't need more.

[@tristanitus9921]

@@TheNightkunai overcast panns is 9 winds, last more than twice as long as shield of thorns, it has value i think youre missing

[@TheNightkunai]

@@tristanitus9921 Overcasting deals dmg to your mage, it also costs more than shield of thorns which is 5 winds for 22 seconds, giving you more time to regen winds (though minimally). More importantly the 24% speed is a lost stat, you're better of paying 1 winds more every 44 seconds to get that +30% base dmg. Two life mages beat does the job just fine. The rest of the lore of beasts just isn't all that great. In fact, you might just be better of getting a third life mage, or shadow if you want to dish out more damage. Two life mages also provide life bloom on every shield of thorns cast, meaning you have to heal less often. Shield of Thorns + Pann's is overkill, so that's w/e. EDIT: you use shadow Okkam's mindrazor on the engage, for the +12% speed and +50% damage on charging in. You use 3-4 arcane conduits after that anyway. You can then later pendulum when engaged if you really want. EDIT2: You want spells to give AP damage not base weapon dmg, two different things. Their strength is their high MA with insane AP dmg, base weapon strength is kinda eh.

[@TheCatthedragon]

Legend in the norsca chariot video: "I'm not going to use my wizard because I want to test the strength of the chariots" Legend in the welf melee video: "I'm going to spam dweller's below on my life wizard and pray"

[@svenbrede6151]

The treeman stack depends on magic for most of its damage, so not using that would be a problem.

[@sbjct17]

Its crazy how fast legend noticed when that wizzard thingy came back to the fight around 5:57. Almost instantly.

[@svenbrede6151]

Yeah. Legend is an amazing player. He's just idling most of the time, when playing :D

[@Kalidoscope1230]

I feel like there was supposed to be some mass spam of earth blood... Cuz you know, 50% cool down on the branchwraiths

[@alex_zetsu]

Heck even regrowth, while not efficient, might have improved the outcome a bit.

[@SWtaervdesn]

@@alex_zetsu Per winds of magic point, regrowth heals more than earth blood.

[@Kalidoscope1230]

@@alex_zetsu At the very least, it'd probably make one of the bladesingers immortal for the duration of the spell

[@yaeko4777]

It's nice seeing a melee infantry doomstack actually do really well. It's a nice change to the usual single entity or range doomstacks.

[@holdinmcgroin8639]

Legend so ashamed of liking melee infantry that he had to delete the vid

[@therockontheshelf]

one thing legend neglected there as well was to heal the infantry, because of such high resistances and goo melee defence, most of the units were at like 50-60% hp will still having 90+ models in the unit, so healing is still very good on them

[@Murasame13]

Yeah, he mentions this in a reply somewhere. Because he's so used to healing single entities. Also melee infantry usually don't last so long. I feel like this is 9.5/10 but requires a lot of micro and obviously prefers forests.

[@eirikarnesen9691]

the matrix is clearly collapsing. melee infantry doomstacks, cats and dogs living together. my man! my mam! my man! my man!

[@andersalkjaer4745]

"One of the problems is that you can't heal them ovet the end turn" They nearly didn't lose a single model and healed to full after the battle

[@IAmebAdger]

Yeah but imagine they were in non-replenishment terrain, then it would have been nice if you could heal them to full within the battle for the end turn

[@petenell5807]

@@IAmebAdger He didn't click it, but woodelves can take replenishment after every battle, he could have healed them to basically full by picking the 10% replenishment

[@bobafat2082]

@@petenell5807 He didn't even mention it when getting the choice

[@dnw009]

I mean this result for a melee doomstack is suprising in and of itself, regardless of if you need to use replenishment after each battle to make sure they keep in fighting shape. Also legend was not used to the doomstack which means someone more familiar with the heroes/army would probably minize losses better.

[@kalmanbugyi5086]

11:16 First impression was Matthew McConaughey's “Alright, alright, alright.”

[@drunkrumjack]

Wow a great effort again Maestro Legend. Holy that's a cheese load of high elf dough. Credit to the submitter for that build.

[@karthias1380]

That was a heroic victory with the balance of power bar already in your favor

[@Drachnon]

When first looking at their stats I thought their weapon strength would be too low but I guess with 137 magical melee attack it doesn't really matter.

[@babydollobscurity8545]

lol you've been watching legends videos too much, that weapon strength is per entity. Hence single entities (what legend effectively runs 99% of the time because you know skill) have higher weapon strength whereas bladesingers actually rank within the top 5 of strongest melee infantry in the game

[@VeniVdVici]

Your honest during the first few minutes is awesome!!!

[@dylanhilton8431]

"Melee infantry are rubbish..." That's the exact reason higher difficulty sucks ass.

[@varmituofm]

Yeah, I don't understand the higher combat difficulties. It just gives stat buffs, so it makes things like tactics and strategy the same every time. Group em up, hit em with aoe

[@sagacity1071]

Yeah it just forces you to abuse arrows and magic. It's fun... but it's sad you cant use a balanced army

[@Kuddochan]

I play on Legendary campaign difficulty and Normal battle difficulty nowadays. Best combination of challenge and realism whilst still enabling you to use thematic armies properly in my experience. Could recommend if you haven't tried it

[@srgfkct3544]

You have to balance the fact that we as humanz are superior in terms of tactical capabilities. Unless CA can make a godlike AI, stats buff are the only thing that will make battles actually harder. Sadly they do make melee infantry and cavalry completely dogshit, so personally I will not go above hard after I finish my very hard playthru.

[@Daddylonglegs93]

Legendary campaign difficulty means you're always outnumbered, though. I find that's enough to still provide some challenge with normal battles. Not as much as legend faces, sure, but the ability to use melee units and cavalry makes it worth it to me.

[@bigolbearthejammydodger6527]

I hope you took away from this that beast magic is at its best when supporting mele infantry - its the reason beast magic is viewed so poorly by most folks that play on harder battle difficulty, its not so much that its a 'terrible' lore of magic, rather that everything it brings is rendered pointless because the situation in which it excels is so rarely seen by the player for very good reasons. I mean - Its still not a GOOD lore of magic, but its less crap than we give it credit for generally.

[@alex_zetsu]

Legend also underestimates Flock of Doom. It had a descent radius and no friendly fire. It's not what it used to be on release, but if you can cast it on 7 units at a time (which is certainly possible most battles) you can do as much damage as a single cast of Dwellers Bellow, and its AP damage. The thing is, it's so cheap in winds of magic that this actually makes it one of the most cost effective lores in the game, even if you count the ones that can kill friendlies, if you exclude Lore of Vampires. The problem Flock of Doom has is that an average cast of it is far from optimal, but most casts of other area of effect spells can easily be cast close to optimally. Without pausing, you might cast 3 Flock of Dooms optimally in a battle and a bunch of suboptimal casts. I was facepalming at Legend in one disaster battle when he cast it on two units instead of moving the wizard closer to take advantage of the spell's radius.

[@bigolbearthejammydodger6527]

@@alex_zetsu yep, flock of doom is a prime example of 'support the mele' spell. Its crap for damage but its completely safe. its not a killing spell, its a softening up the enemy spell, it the just opposite of earth blood.

[@alex_zetsu]

​@@bigolbearthejammydodger6527 Flock of Doom isn't crap for damage _per wind_ if you can get 7 units in it. It's three saving graces are no friendly fire, wide radius, and low wind cost. Per wind it is actually quite great even if not supporting melee, but just counting straight damage. If you dragged the battle on long enough, you can actually do quite a bit of damage. Or you can just have some treemen soak up the enemy while you use nukes to kill the enemy, but even in this case Flock of Doom doom would do very well when you consider the wind cost. Of course, it's entirely possible to lose the battle before using all your winds, so "Its still not a GOOD lore of magic, but its less crap than we give it credit for generally" sounds about right. I'm just saying Flock of Doom is actually a good damage dealer for the wind cost.

[@beenoc]

@@alex_zetsu I once fought a siege against Bretonnia as Wood Elves where they clumped almost every one of their units on top of each other (it was a GCCM map, so that probably didn't help) and like 4 overcast Flock of Doom casts got 500 kills and wiped out pretty much everything in their army except for a few cavalry units and artillery. I was like "wow, that spell isn't that bad after all."

[@inheritanced1501]

For the upkeep on treeman army, there is a building to reduce upkeep for garrison army, he forgot to check the building

[@petrgrebenicek1067]

Did I just heard Legend saying:"viable melee infantry doomstack" without sarcasm?

[@alexeyalexandrov7583]

I played with similar stack and I can say that it's pretty cool. And it works fine in any terrain because I prefer disciplined heroes rather than Ariel's chosen. Bladesingers are especially good in sieges due to stalking. Also ladies have magical attack so having a Branchwraith with a trait removing 25% magical resist really buffs the army. P.S. The ladies get +10 physical resist from technology and 15% from red skill tree

[@tristanitus9921]

I dont agree on the disciplined spam because theres only 4 entities to get it on so +8 MA doesnt do much for me but thats personal preference. This army actually does have a branchwraith with that trait. Its so useful!

[@newtonslawtwitch5143]

I've been trying with Disciplined as well, it's a constant buff rather than ONLY forest battles. Got up to ~110 MA and I think at a certain point all that extra MA provides diminishing returns. One thing I can't seem to figure out with this stack is how to buff the weapon strength. They have 58 in this video, but only 38 by default, not sure how to buff it.

[@alexeyalexandrov7583]

@@newtonslawtwitch5143 I think i know why. As you can see on a unit card Bladesingers' WS is not considered AP as normally. Also in army icons there is the top icon in player's army, it's also presented in Eltharion's army. I guess it's an event called "Brutal Business" which gives +20 base WS to all armies for all factions. So basically it added +20 base WS to Bladesingers and this made them kinda non-AP :)

[@newtonslawtwitch5143]

@@alexeyalexandrov7583 I started thinking it was a temporary effect or something like this. Watching at 0.25 speed at 16:24 he briefly hovers over it. So without that campaign effect, the highest you can get weapon str for the Bladesingers Glamourweaver lord is 42. The durability and super high MA I think are still the big factors for this stack though.

[@alexeyalexandrov7583]

@@newtonslawtwitch5143 On 1:02 there is a popup on Swordmasters of Hoeth (I used 0.25 speed as well), they have 56 damage without AP sign. Normally they have 11 Base + 25 AP = 36 and should have AP sign. So I bet it's Brutal Business event.

[@Cmbtsnpr]

one of the big benefits of this over tree men that I can think of is the ability to run down enemy infantry. With the speed they have (and if you wanted to chain cast miasmas with those branchwraiths) their melee attack pretty much guarantees a fully wiped unit for each unit of bladesingers.

[@johannessturm2754]

Finally some love for my beloved War Dancers

[@vincentquijano7657]

Every time i hear Ariel speak, I hear "Witness your DOOM!"

[@aeth4190]

6:36 Ariel having 666 weapon strenght...Beautiful

[@ianthompson3275]

Staunch line of.... Bladesingers?

[@torquevonthorne948]

More like a singing line of blades

[@Zefar77]

While playing on normal I've had quite a bit of use for Bladesingers. It was basically my go to melee tank for my archers armies with Wood Elves.

[@Goldmasterflex]

I hope you stream today, it's been a really rough week. Thank you for another reason to smile Jeff, much love. Edit- shoot I forgot that friday and Saturday are no stream days.

[@tristanitus9921]

@John Constantine he packed in Dlive, has 2 days off instead

[@I2dios8]

I actually tried this stack before in a sisters o' twilight campaign before, and I can say first hand that outside of its optimal conditions it can easily get shredded. I went up against a rather mid tier dark elf army that wasn't even a full stack with a black ark in range, and they just got decimated by the the different battle abilities and ranged units. I still won, but I very nearly lost a few units because they took so much damage. I just don't really see the point in recruiting them anymore since a mix of glade guard, deep wood scouts, and waystalkers can do much better against worse odds at a cheaper price.

[@mrpancackles3974]

I can't believe how well that auto resolved looked

[@hewhogoesni8949]

When you have infantry with resistances that high you can treat them more akin to a large entity unit, and healing becomes significantly more valuable on them. You can see the difference in the total health vs the entities alive as the battle goes on, even as they're taking damage the entities of the infantry units aren't dying that quickly. Spamming healing magic would have boosted their effectiveness considerably, and I know that Dwellers is juicy when you make big melee-entrenched blobs but when you're considering whether an army can keep going for consecutive battles the healing should have taken priority.

[@frikky99]

tbh I've used melee units for years playing on very hard/very hard and never even noticed enemy melee is buffed or had any issues dealing with armies

[@snikeduden2850]

I like mixing in some Asrai spear Wardancers in this stack. They are insanely good vs large units.

[@reginaldvputt]

If you take the casualty replenishment after a fight it´s almost full hp most of the time @LegendofTotalWar, that's the advantage for non solo entity army's.

[@Irgendjemandlol]

I feel like the "giving AI better stats" - difficulty is one of the worst gameplay decisions of CA ever

[@Kuddochan]

At least making it so melee stat-oriented is dumb. Just give them health or ward save or something that at least works more or less the same for all types of units. Just focusing so much on boosting melee attack/defense makes no sense

[@Irgendjemandlol]

@@Kuddochan Agreed

[@ZackTheChiller]

same id really like to use 50% of the unit roster and i also like seeing them fight, maybe i should just play on lower difficulty...

[@sadpee7710]

i disagree, it would have been fine if it hadn't been melee only.

[@buttnuttz6119]

YES. You’d think since this game is classified as an RTS the AI would be programmed like in an RTS, instead of going the call of duty “you have less health they have more health” type of difficulty route.

[@stramlukt]

One advantage with melee and ranged infantry over treemen is that you can replenish with post battle captives, although life magic is better by healing treemen to full, this helps even it out a little

[@alexanderc9462]

With their physical resistance, you could have used life magic on the infantry and it would have kept more of them alive. They had full models but were at like 80% health at one point

[@jonathansykes1398]

I do think the ability of army to perform on any relevant battlefield, wood elves cam get away need this less than other races due their unique campaign. Should the ability to cope with different battlefields be considered by not putting a doomstack on optimal terrain? Doomstacks need to be able to cope with completely sub-optimal battle fields. Dwarf artillery and scaven weapons teams struggle on rough maps which also make wind spells more tricky to use, whereas treemen do well even on their worst maps, completely open plains.

[@Kilen_BE]

Roughly same price 8.5k to 8.2 too for treemen, wich are more reliable overall, easier to recover from turn to turn, as there will probably be some entities missing if bladesingers need to fight multiple fights one after the other... but sure, strong melee concept, worth a 9/10 for sure. GG

[@myriago3814]

Playing as Broken Axe, having the dish that gives Berserker to all Orks. Then in Wurrzag armies you can have gold tier Savage Big Uns on like 80% physical resistance for as long as they're engaged in mele.

[@fuzzyhair321]

Well the good thing for wood elves with the new stuff you're very likely to fight in forests

[@fidelcashflow4940]

Yeah the office did give them stalk, so that would negate a lot of issues with open field!

[@ccreasman]

I saw another KZbinr show that if you partner the Blade singers with the Zoats, as in paired teams, that they really work best. I don’t think that qualifies as what you consider a doom stack, but in my armies which I always keep balanced, it works perfectly. I usually have two or three pairs together. The Zoats ability boasts the Singers, and then later, the heal ability keeps them in the fight longer. I bet you could go up to 7 or 8 pairs and really have a tough army. Still only melee, so like you said, on very hard/legendary, the missile units are vital.

[@WhiteBuffaloWakanGli]

The treemen doomstack with regen on all of them is an amazing army. Probably one of the strongest in the game.

[@vicospriteg]

That winds of magic regen rate was insane.

[@CrzyLion]

damn dude this video exposed some strengths i did not know the wood elves had... and i just played an orion and a sisters of twilight campaign >_>

[@robertdrouin2054]

The 100+ Melee Attack means they were hitting 90% of the time, for monstrous amounts of damage, that could have been even higher if he turned off AP. Given how many more units he had fighting, of course they were doing more damage than treemen were, deleting their opponents before they could fight back. They only started to take real damage when the fire arrows started coming in. Also, taking half damage from ranged units because forest. Yes, he was more concerned with offense on the Casters then healing the Bladesingers. However, charging any normal unit with a unit this buffed up and a 90% hit rate is just going to delete them. If AP is turned off, damage is up, and they get the charge bonus, they could literally flatten a normal enemy unit in light armor in just seconds. 90% hit rate +100 dmg/figure is a LOT of damage on the charge if you have a frontal facing of 20-25 characters! The AI doesn't use good spell tactics like players, tho, so this type of fighting is very vulnerable to players. Also, we didn't see a good skirmish fight here, although so many fast infantry could easily start corralling most cavalry in a longer game. The real weakness of the build is, as most people noticed, replenishment. A single entity mob just needs to be healed. Losses inside a unit come back slower, even if everyone is healed. Losing a single mob just means recruiting another one.

[@ehk5948]

I do like Bladesingers they preformed much better than I thought

[@fatrend]

I would add 1-2 units of sisters of the thorn to this army, the spells are really useful and they apply poison. gives you a mobility option as well

[@bodhisfattva7462]

the benefit of this over a tree stack is you can give chase and kill entire stacks as the tree stack cant chase fleeing troops at all.

[@IXIammerlock]

2 blade singers and 2 asrai spears can hold down a line better than most, esp while being buffed. Always take a couple of both, with the rest being whatever but tons of ranged

[@cHaMp630]

Treemen can easily take on 4 armies of just about anything when kitted out.

[@CrazyDutch91]

I really appreciate Legend is now properly saying very hard battle difficulty instead of legendary difficulty when saying Melee Infantry sucks.

[@Firefocus-fz2we]

10/10 with Crimson Killerz in terms of the melee infantry

[@fractalco.creative5796]

I am working on making you a Wright King Doomstack to Rate. I mentioned it a while ago but saw no movement to it so I thought I would start my first Isse Von Carstein Vanilla Campaign and cheesed the level up for 4 of my lords at the start.

[@futonrevolution7671]

I'm probably going to use MercytheMad's savefile soon to save a few hours for my own campaign. What's your plan with the Wight Kings?

[@fractalco.creative5796]

@@futonrevolution7671 Well I am thinking whether or not to give LOW a Strigoi Vampire Lord as he can wind of death cheese to make it harder with Wight kings as he did that with the Blood Knights, or make the Blood Dragon on horse so its like a Raiders army of horsemen, in terms of what traits to farm I am not 100 sure % sure on that. I was also going to use this Strigoi lord for a terrorgheist and Crypt horror DS.

[@futonrevolution7671]

If you haven't seen it, there's an unlisted video, where he redid the Blood Knight one "properly" with about as much grumbling as you'd expect. (Unlisted to keep the algorithm from shafting him, iirc.) watch?v=7Ed_KQb1AZs

[@darko-man8549]

There's a way to make all bladesingers and wardancers stalk in 1 army have stalk, which is also super crazy and so much fun - I used to it counter the dawi

[@tristanitus9921]

Its the Glamourweaver title and this army actually has that it just wasn't highlighted as they started in a forest :)

[@fabianr.6507]

I really don't get why anyone would want to play on higher battle difficulties. Campaign difficulty, sure, but what is the appeal of making 50 to 60% of any faction's roster (namely all melee troops)more or less useless? It just forces you to cheese battles instead of enjoying a tactical battle with a balanced army where all of your troops have their intended use...

[@muhammadsaduddin308]

Yeah, i hope they fixed it.

[@danialcourtney5969]

I think you're underestimating dodge. Its very important for not taking losses

[@okonkwojones]

Man that seemed a chaotic fight to me, but That might just be the forest though.

[@rubengildenhuys8962]

I find it much harder to follow a fight in trees, since they block my sight, but I also keep forgetting to turn foliage off, so there is that.

[@UndeadMongoose301]

I think the majority of the physical resistance comes from the red line skill for melee infantry that gives like 15%

[@KillaKris239]

Aren’t your troops suffering more Melee penalties because the enemy has the high ground and you’re fighting on a slope?

[@LegendofTotalWar]

Yeah but the forest buff pretty much negates that. Plus the trees provide cover from their arrows and give us winds faster. The high ground isn't worth a ton in Warhammer 2.

[@aeth4190]

Anakin would be pleased by this

[@KillaKris239]

@@LegendofTotalWar That makes sense....definitely Better to have them fighting in the woods, specially against strong range teams like the HElves. Thanks for responding!

[@loafer144]

There was also the White Lions "doomstack" but, you know. White Lions.

[@ศกรโสมาภา]

This doomstack is actually not finished I think. There’re 1 more buff spell and 1 more debuff spell in lore of shadow and it’s very significant buff. It’s +50% dmg buff and minus armor debuff (which is good for the blade singer) but my memory might not serves me right.

[@hds6362]

Nice Video dude. Will come a new 20 turns on legendary guid ? I love that kind ob videos

[@aminerkin9844]

in some ways this is superior to treeman because it gets more kills, but treeman last forever so magic can do the kills.

[@newtonslawtwitch5143]

Anybody know how this stack was able to buff the weapon strength so much? Normally Bladesingers are at 38 WS (rank 9), but this stack is sitting at 58 Weapon Strength. Some units have auras/spells that increase it in-battle, but those increases don't show on the unit cards on campaign. I've pretty much got this stack in my campaign, just can't figure out how to increase the weapon strength like it was done here. Any suggestions??

[@newtonslawtwitch5143]

Found it! at 16:24 he hovers over the campaign effect briefly (watch at 0.25 and pause). "A Brutal Business" gives +20 Base Weapon damage for all armies of all factions for 10 turns.

[@Achillez098]

I'm still waiting for a Witch-Elf spam Snu-Snu doomstack. But this one's good too :)

[@lordchaos7770]

I figured out the extra points, theres no reason to fight in the badlands as wood elves

[@tomdavies3680]

had been thinking about making this army, had notice the follower is easy to get to buff them

[@Macfierce1]

It's a great stack for homeland defense that's for sure.

[@svenbrede6151]

The wildroot stance forces defensive forest battles.

[@Alucard291]

Oh my! Something that isn't a single entity monster stack!

[@jonathaneastman3d]

Now i know how to deal with High Elves with Wood Elves. Who would have thought... 🤔

[@jaxonpecora4391]

Hot babes elves be thirsty

[@jonathaneastman3d]

@@jaxonpecora4391 😂😂😂

[@shake-it4206]

They were fighting in the forest, right? The Wood elves are super strong there. I'd be curious to see how they perform outside of it.

[@alannguyen5452]

This army best for holding choke point (with the forest of cause)

[@proxyx3557]

One of the few melee infantry units that can be used, but are bloody expensive and still less useful than a monster or waywatchers.

[@SGz_Eliminated]

I thought he was gonna go for an 8/10 so I'm surprised he gave it a nine, especially because as he mentioned he has such an aversion to melee inf

[@damo9961]

They should have a late game Greenskin research that buffs Black Orcs speed 25%, gives them shields and 20% ward save lol

[@chickentendies5215]

should be compared to a treemen army that has the same heroes. the same buffs would affect them too. doesnt 9/10 mean its stronger than his usual armies but he said its weaker than treemen?

[@tristanitus9921]

Treemen is a 10/10 doomstack though

[@chickentendies5215]

@@tristanitus9921 the score is relative though . so treemen would be a 7/10, otherwise you cant have an army be stronger. He explained his grading rules in a video

[@tristanitus9921]

@@chickentendies5215 fair enough

[@HK417A1]

@@chickentendies5215 He says in that video, that his standard doomstacks are 9/10 and that he will compare it to that

[@chickentendies5215]

@@HK417A1 i remember him saying 7. i cant remember which video it was

[@KalinoursEU]

what would be a generic late game army for a wood elf faction ? like a jack of all trade would be great if we could have a video on that for every factions cheers mate

[@futonrevolution7671]

Their defensive and offensive needs are so divorced from each other that I don't know if there is a generic stack. I guess this one for garrisons, and Treemen for everything else?

[@Layk35]

This might as well be a hero doomstack, nearly half the army are leaders

[@neweden.]

wasn't there a war lions of chrace doom stack sent earlier

[@nerfherder5211]

Army needed to be bit tighter, and spells needs to be spammed more frequently. It empowers this army a lot - especially spamming the cheap spells like earthblood on the high effective hp shit meelee infantry. Deathballing is my strat for a rather similar build. The treemen as easier to control but I love mixing it up esp in longer campaigns. But to not lose these guys - you definately needs to constantly cast. All the time. Earthbloods and the buffs.Not chasing and spreading out is more important. I just eat the missile and cast earthblood. Increase game speed and just spam spells.

[@rickylahey657]

Ariel. Arieel..ARRIIIEEELLLL

[@Kraiklyn01]

Is there a video of the treeman doomstack? He’s referred to it in a few vids but I can’t find it?

[@theeverchosen1504]

Why does the AI commit to attacks the autoresolve think's they'll lose?