Legion Theme & Unit Preferences - 18 Legions in 46 Minutes

[@arbiter7x]

''Emperor's Children are traitors, unlike the Dark Angels.'' sounds like you're being forced to read off a script with a plasma pistol to your head

[@DeusExMachina10001]

Funny thing is that OG Dark Angels were not quite traitors but they actually did basically sit out the HH to see who won. It's a retcon that they were genuine loyalists.

[@jamesmacken9501]

The Emperor's Children have such a preference for MK IV that most characters in the books are described with it. Even Fulgrims armour is artificer MK IV armour.

[@victorbrianmcreynolds2200]

Hi Macca! Just thought I'd let you know that not all of the UK community dislikes your videos and content. (I'm Scottish.) I personally love your honesty and 'salt', as it's generally spot on. Your original 'Getting Started In The Horus Heresy' series was the catalyst for my entry into HH 1st edition, and I found it helped me build a thematic, fun army from the 'get go'. (Imperial Fists, by the way. I used to play Black Templars, so I wanted to play their Primogenitor Legion. They are OP in this edition sadly, so I always feel a bit like 'That Guy' when I play a game with them nowadays).

[@the98themperoroftheholybri33]

Me and you both, I'm from Yorkshire and I find Macca's Horus heresy advice and thoughts to be very well written and thought out, there's nothing that's very controversial, I feel like he says things we all deep down know but *some* people in the community don't want to admit it to themselves

[@colinbielat8558]

A quick nitpick, nostromo is named after the Joseph Conrad book nostromo. Also a fun fact, konrad cruz is also named after another Joseph Conrad book called heart of darkness in which a former ivory trader called kurtz becomes a ruler over a tribe and falls into insanity.

[@jacobwilbers9852]

So nostromo being a planet full of convicts and gangers based on a book that takes place in the ivory coast kinda racist

[@colinbielat8558]

@Jacob Wilbers I think it's more that one of the creators was a fan of Joseph Conrad's work and used nostromo and heart of darkness as inspiration for the early life of konrad Curz. Konrad's life and fall is actually pretty similar to the titular character in nostromo as well as kurtz in heart of darkness.

[@enochianwolf]

​@@jacobwilbers9852 you're racist against Europeans

[@markselby9352]

@@jacobwilbers9852 nostromo is actually a fictitious country in south America in Conrad’s book

[@Matt-FRESHMINTY]

Also killed by M'shen... Like how the movie cast Martin Sheen as his enemy 😂

[@minimundus1712]

I hate it that Iron Warriors still dont have there own Praetor minis but we get a chaos doom assasin........

[@bloodbarage]

Thank god you’re not salamanders….

[@Alpharius2479]

@@bloodbarage They are only one book apart....and lets not even mention raven guard....

[@minimundus1712]

@@bloodbarage Yeah forgot the fire boys....

[@Golden_Wolf_Gaming]

Could be worse I suppose. Could have the space wolf forgeworld section…most of which is ass

[@minimundus1712]

@@Golden_Wolf_Gaming Yeah they did the SW really dirty 0o

[@Alpharius2479]

My Alpha legion is an armored company just to subvert expectations of the typical infantry/assassination force. Maybe its not the most fluffy but a lot of my opponents have enjoyed the subverted expectations so id say as an alpha legion player its been a success.

[@williamtimonen6814]

I remember someone saying that Alpha Legions arent about being sneaky like the Raven Guard, but about doing the least suspected thing. So If the thing they expect the least is a spartan rush…

[@jeffshackleford3152]

@@williamtimonen6814 that is probably accurate

[@childrenofthesun471]

Well the thing is about alpha legion is they're capable of everything they fill ANY roll they just use the best tactic/unit possible to win a battle If the opponent has poor fire power but really good melee specialised troops (not speaking tabletop wise) Then Alpha Legion will just say right the most efficient way to win is to completely outfire them since the enemy has poor fire power Vice versa And if the enemy doesn't have anything good agianst vehicles then Alpha Legion will rush you with a mechanised army WHILST sabotaging everything and causing chaos and confusion amongst the enemy

[@limcw6092]

If I remember correctly Alpha Legion did use massed armoured vehicles during the HH on some battle against loyalist traitors along with some titans.

[@SuperDuperHappyTime]

This is the kind of information dump that makes me want to own and collect every army.

[@HyperLethal0100]

Macca seems too forget "cause i like it" is a valid reason for having a "non traditional" legion force (ie: night lord armoured regiment) In fact id rather see more of that, than a white scar bike army or an iron hands armour company....again.

[@the98themperoroftheholybri33]

Exactly, it actually creates unique gameplay, if you can see your opponent's army and instantly know what they're going to do it sort of ruins the fun. My world eaters aren't as melee focused as most other world eaters, they have chain bayonets and are covered in blood still, but I'm much more heavy vehicle based than infantry based

[@maxmagnus3793]

My Imperial Fists ended up in Mark IV plate, at least for now. It kind of fits because I'm theming my Household/Chapter as more of a mobile and shooty force overall. Armoured Spearhead may be on the horizon

[@MaxZRider]

Gay

[@MaxZRider]

Mk IV fists I mean

[@andrewdryburgh1893]

@@MaxZRider sigma opinion

[@LanternBearer]

Excellent Video. Quick, precise information. Not too much salt. ;) Keep it up.

[@eergegerg23]

Death Guard is not just about chemical warfare. Death Guard it's about all rounded heavy infantry with short range weapons (bolters, meltas, flamers and close combat weapons). Also they have high numbers of terminators and contemptors. And they like to use heavy support squads, siege tanks (vindicators and typhons), fellblades and heavy assault transports (spartans etc). So typical Death Guard's force contains tactical marines with heavy and tactical support squads, terminators in spartans, contemptors, siege tanks and some destroyers.

[@operkoi8954]

I know among the caderae weapons the falax blades deservedly get all the attention but the meteor hammer definitely deserves a second look. There’s a warlord trait for world eaters giving +1 str to the unit on the charge, coupled with rampagers meteor hammers become str 8 breaching 5+ and hit at I5 on the charge. They also become str 6 for other units so they would make good weapons for destroyer sergeants

[@electricimpulse7]

Waiting for part two where you go back and cover those two Legions you missed, silly (it's okay, we all make mistakes.)

[@dariostabletopbastelecke4846]

Thank you so much for this VIDEO!

[@ominousmecha500]

I luv me legion of PTSD ridden siegey bois gotta get myself a peter turbo at some point

[@enochianwolf]

Lmao

[@arkiswatching699]

Ate me legion Ate mk vi armour Ate fulgrim (purple nonce) Ate imperial fists (not bitter just dont liek em) Luv sieges Luv me robots Luv building Luv da vinci Simpl as -Peter Turbo

[@onewingedangel2479]

​@@arkiswatching699 "Big Pert" or "Burturabo."

[@ethanorange3705]

given his name is 'Conrad Kurst', I'll assume 'nostromo' is named after the boat in 'heart of darkness', thanks. other than this error, great video, I love these no frils detail rich over views

[@magicianman534]

I'm in the early planning stages for a loyalist Iron Warriors force based on the Schadenhold garrison. Long story short, these guys were basically exiles since well before the Hersey started because they called their primarch out for being an asshole to his face. In my mind, whatever token resupply they got from Legion HQ after that would be mostly limited to the bare minimum plus whatever no one else cared about (i.e., MK VI) and any specialist equipment they have would just be whatever they've been able to maintain from before their exile. With that in mind, I want to try and create a rough, industrial, improvised look of MK VI workshoped together with their remaining MK II and III parts. With the more complete and intact suits of MK II and III being reserved for officers and elites.

[@UnfocusedHobbie]

I'm painting a Ultramarines force in mainly Mk3 and Mk2. The narrative behind them is they are the survivors or calth and neuciria and have been forced to pull out older mks or armor

[@duckz236]

*Sees part of title* "18 Legions in 46" Oh, must be a quick overview of something about the legions if it's gonna take 46 seconds *Rest of title loads* "Minutes" Even better.

[@ashe274]

Great vid! I love these kinds of breakdowns, and it really got me yearning to get back to my HH 2.0 box. The reason I put a stop on my work was actually that I wanted to go Emperor’s Children, but I hate the beak helmets. Absolutely despise them, and I didn’t know how to get others. Does anyone a good place to get Mark IV helmets in bulk? Don’t think I’ve seen them on GW’s site, and places like Etsy and EBay have been spotty at best.

[@WarmasterPainting]

Really good video!

[@benjaminbrenner745]

Thank you!

[@kevinhuynh4278]

Mk4 Word Bearers all the way

[@funbro99]

And Night lords

[@ero9841]

I picked iron hands because the lack of special units and no primarch. Gives more options and less money spent on fw.

[@terrysaunders7107]

The Iron Hands retain the ability to make mk 4 armor in 40k. They worked closely with the admechs prototypes so feel free to give them modern terminator or mk 7.

[@ero9841]

@@terrysaunders7107 I have mixes a few new scale mark 7 from small board game gw sells. It was cheap 15bucks got me 5 marines and some dice.

[@Colonel-Sigma]

When you get early access to he new game and find out it sucks but youre under a non-disclosure agreement so you can't warn everyone to leave the kickstarter: Word Bearers

[@wiggy5209]

Corvus Corax no longer available? may that indicate a new model coming?

[@kennetheisenbraun5217]

As an aside, I feel the need to state that the space wolves aren't Norse. Not even mythologically so. They're more akin to stereotypical d&d barbarians.

[@blueline4857]

One relatively minor nitpick in this; The Dark Angels Knights Cenobium technically aren’t part of the regular Deathwing veterans. The Dark Angels had a number of secret societies within their ranks, and each one was geared to a singular specific purpose or tactic and they were supposed to master that exact problem. These guys would be in these brotherhoods in addition to being one of the regular Wings, and their usual company structures. The Dark Angels were weird like that. Knights Cenobium are those guys when that problem arises. They’re given elite wargear made solely for their cause and then sent out to handle that problem. Got a battlefield with ice so cold it’ll freeze a Space Wolf? We got a Cenobium for that. Got an ambush site? We got a Cenobium for that. Otherwise I’d say your video is pretty damn cool and covers the lore and choices for Legions pretty well. Like how you gave good advice for all the Legions. Good ideas for building armies and everything.

[@maciejmachowicz9745]

"Raven Guard - the last of the loyalist's legions" - Lies!!

[@jean-luclorusso]

Hey macca considering all the different archetypes and niches of the 18 legions. What is your opinion as to what 2 types of legions are missing that mightve been filled from the two lost legions?

[@cornchaptermasterofcarmine5902]

Signal corps naturally

[@KnightsofTitan]

Probably something like the peace Corp, with a favoritism towards medica like the red scorpions. And maybe a proper void based legion that favors naval (space of course) warfare? Basically fabius bile the legion and the void based one would be jumpack, but shooty instead of melee

[@Jackalos1]

I remember reading a theory a while back about how the Primarchs may be based on the Major Arcana Tarot Cards which number 20 after you remove "the fool" and "the world". Some of them line up well (e.g. the magician = magnus, death = mortarion) but others are less obvious. Probably worth a read to infer the nature of the two missing legions and/or their primarchs. EDIT: I don't know how Macca feels about all this, but it would make an interesting video tbf.

[@cornchaptermasterofcarmine5902]

@@Jackalos1 I mean maybe if you remove the numbers. If you don't then only one that aligns is VIII - Justice and I guess XV - the Devil kind of lines up with the Crimson King.

[@Jackalos1]

@@cornchaptermasterofcarmine5902 Yes, defo have to rearrange the numbers! That said, III could still be Emperor's Children too (Empress).

[@childrenofthesun471]

Whats your opinion on "Field MK5" for IW? they idea sounds nice and very logical due to the high death count scavenging armour for newer recruits or just for quick resupplying makes a lot of sense

[@ravenRedwake]

So I think I’ve heard that the mark 2 and 3 armor the head isn’t supposed to be able to move, but when you are building them you can position them all around, so what gives with that?

[@imperialguardsman9733]

iirc it’s specifically when the suits are atmospherically sealed. So the helmets are locked in a forward position when in space, under water, and hostile atmospheres.

[@Grubnar]

The first Mk II suits were primitive. The later suits fixed that problem.

[@blueline4857]

It’s either a subtle retcon or you can justify it with “early Mark 2 necks were fucked up but they made an update to it without being a completely new Armor Mark” And thus we can say that Mark 4 was the first Power Armor made specifically with the turning neck straight off the production line. That way you have, say, Deathwing Companions (who appear to be wearing Mark 3) turning their heads to each other without compromising old canon.

[@jellydamgood]

Salamanders' foil isnt death guard, its night lords, due to their cruelty even to their own. And while they are nice to their own people, they are not nice to their enemies, where's the confusion? Saddest thing is that the world eaters' would have been similar to them if it werent for Angron getting nailed. 😢

[@andrewbakescakes9684]

How to play Imperial Fists: Step 1) Choose a Legion other than IF or UM so people actually want to play you and you don't lose all your friends.

[@DirtyMardi]

They aren’t really that bad, if you don’t go overboard with their better elite units and self-moderate a bit. Otherwise they become easy mode and not that fun for anybody. Then again, it’s the same as taking a lot of other undercosted units such as HSS, recons, scorpiuses and contemptors etc. I’d say not taking something because they can be made OP is not a very good advice. It’s just something to keep in mind.

[@Pikkabuu]

That is step 2! The real step 1. is to take a book and beat yourself with it until you understand that you should never be an IF player!

[@andrewbakescakes9684]

Or UM. Mary Sues wearing Plot Armor ruin the setting.

[@MaxZRider]

How do they have plot armour? They die all the time in the books

[@andrewbakescakes9684]

@@MaxZRider - Phall really bothers me. The Dorn v. Fulgrim fight even more so. Maybe it is more that they are Mary Sues rather than they wear Plot Armor, but they seem to magically be better at things than those who specialize in those things sometimes. Part of that is really bad writing and clear favoritism on the part of IF authors.

[@firemango9107]

Hey just a question for you im sitting on some money trying to get a solar auxilia force and im wondering when you are doing getting started with solar auxilia so i dont waste my money

[@ciel66]

I know it has nothing to do with the video. But I've been going through some personal stuff and it's been affecting the hobby of painting and such. Do you know anyway to keep it fresh or something of that sort ?

[@eichler721]

Love the Dark Angels, White Scars, and Blood Angels for Loyalist Legions. As far as traitors I love the Nightlords, Iron Warriors, and Thousand Sons.

[@dominionzephyron]

$81 for Corswain?? Man I see why y’all in Australia be mad!! I have the model(unbuilt) but there’s no way he worth like $30 more for y’all than us in the States..it’s a pretty damn small kit. Same with Sedras!! I guess y’all must be all rich out there damn!!

[@nerkvititate]

I believe it’s because of terrible currency exchange rate despite being a commonwealth of the UK they got it bad which I think leads them to more 3rd party markets

[@bloodbarage]

eBay is my Forgeworld.

[@nerkvititate]

I found Corswain in my bidding section as I wanted to start building a small dark angels army slowly I wanted him

[@dominionzephyron]

@@nerkvititate Yeah it’s a cool model. Which for me is what it’s about I like Macca’s content but I’m not actually a player I just like to paint.

[@notknightbean]

This is more of a off topic general question, but i have kinda come to the thought that the paragon blade, compared to other preator options like the power fist of thunder hammer, is a bit weak. I wish they had given it strength +2 so it could insta-kill guardsmen and standard humans while wounding marines on 2s.

[@malusdarkbane]

Take a biomancy librarian for the +1 strength and +1 toughness then you could have what you want.

[@notknightbean]

@@malusdarkbane iron hands biomancer following my preator around. Expensive but possibly worth it.

[@malusdarkbane]

@NotKnightBean I use him with my Ultramarines preator and Invictarus bodyguard as my axes don't get the +1S base, so it's a decent points investment. The +1 T helps if you're getting out Initiative by say Emperor's Children.

[@notknightbean]

@@malusdarkbane I mean that does sound like a good plan

[@rod.h8064]

So I need more Mk 4 armour for Ultramarines....shame I've only ever been able to locate one box of plastic Mk 4...I've got more Mk 3 in resin and plastic than I have Mk 4 Marines. Though they're all outnumbered by Beakies and traditional 40k marines

[@guardsmen2945]

this is incredible useful, thank you. I plan on printing a small force of 1x 40k style tac, 1x special unit (assault marines, land speeders, terminators etc.) and a HQ for some 30k themed games using OPR's and printing true scale marines for 15mm scale 28mm wargaming. I hope to eventually make a small force like this for each legion using various armor types and units per legion while making a counter force with the same/similar armor and units. Currently I'm working on death guard vs blood angles and the special unit being dreads but after viewing this I have decided to reconsider replacing the blood angles with iron hands instead. perhaps in the future I'll make a Mk4 blood angles force with destroyers vs some OPR Blood demons as that seams more theme appropriate and more fitting placement of destroyers. .

[@flatheadgg2443]

Kinda sad you can't have loyalist noise marines, that would be awesome. Also is it ok/lore accurate if l use MKlll for heavy weapons squads in my raven guard? I mean the rules seem to agree.

[@r.alexandercorbitt1554]

Yes. In fact, I'm fairly sure that the Liber Astartes actually has a picure of one in mkIII.

[@UntiltedName]

Leave cowering in a trench to the Iron Warriors or idk, Solar Aux. Death Guard would rather march across no mans land and get the job done w/ fire support. You aint dousing units in alchem fire by sitting on your butt in the dirt. Gotta get up close and personal.

[@Krullio]

Probably each to their own interpretation and this is my opinion. That said. I really liked the black book lore up to book three where every legion was far more balanced and assault focussed, but the style was different. I loved this more than the ‘specialised, trope enteric’ it became after, e.g AL used excessive shaping of the battlefield with strategy and trickery, but then hit hard as nails. Terminator armour was not something for the elite but for the heaviest assaults. The IF specialisation in boarding and space based battles does more for them as a style then the brick wal. In that style the BA are an airborne manoeuvre and planetfall force. And so on. Side note: I never really felt the DA trope was quite convincing; they are all rounded but operate in huge specialised formations, which makes them.. not so all rounded? Probably just me.

[@DirtyMardi]

Horus worse than Lion in everything? That’s not really the case in lore or the table top. The whole setting would be rather stupid if the main bad guy wasn’t the biggest and baddest.

[@TheOuterCircle]

Because in the background, that’s the reality. Horus is far from the best fighter, tactician or logistician, the Lion has the least deviation from the Emperor’s own genes and is supreme, and is the number two pick for Warmaster. The problem is his antisocial tendencies, there’s no way the other primarchs would listen to him. Horus on the tabletop arguably has too good a statline and wargear as a concession towards his greatness, especially in comparison to other primarchs like Vulkan or Perturabo, who are mechanical geniuses and made their own custom wargear, only for Horus to be superior.

[@DeusExMachina10001]

@@TheOuterCircle Horus wasn't just picked for Warmaster because the Lion was a dick. If charisma had been the primary consideration, then Sanguinius would have been the obvious choice. The position was that of the Warmaster after all, not the Gabmaster. While yes, Horus was a far better diplomat than the Lion was, he was also a better grand strategist, as was Guilliman. Dorn and Perturabo may have been as well, but that's more debatable. We don't know if Horus or the Lion was the better duelist, but I'm 99.9% sure Sanguinius was better considering how much ass he tore at the Siege of Terra. Sanguinius was also stated to have received the best blend of the Emperor's traits out of all the Primarchs. The Lion's forte was battle tactics specifically, and he was an excellent duelist and hunter. But if he was literally just better at everything than everyone else, there would have been no reason to make any other Primarchs. The Emperor would have made 20 variations of the Lion and had 20 Dark Angels Legions. The Lion was an exceptional exterminator, duelist and field commander, but he didn't do a whole lot else. Having the Lion and the Dark Angels actually be what 5th edition Ultramarines were would just ruin them. Horus on the tabletop does have stats that are too good imo, but his points cost makes him borderline unusable anyway. Russ, the Lion, and Ferrus all murderize things essentially just as well without the 600 point price tag. Tabletop Vulkan sucks compared to nearly everyone, and Perturabo is really quite good. The crappier hammer is, I think, supposed to reflect the fact that Perturabo wasn't as physically strong as Ferrus. But he's still got a 3+++. Horus's edge is really only against other Primarchs, and that's not worth 150 odd points. He should be cheaper, have a 4+++, and give better buffs to his army. I think that would be fluffier since he was supposed to be such a great commander. The unstoppable combat monster should be Horus Ascended.

[@TheOuterCircle]

@@DeusExMachina10001 well, we know the Lion belted the snot out of Russ, and we know that he could also out-tactical and out-strategise Guilliman to some degree, with him stating it so. So I don't think I'm too far off the mark. Also, Sanguinius at the Siege of Terra could be a Primarch pushing himself to the limit, he could also be a case of the authors going a step too far. Just compare him to the others there...

[@DirtyMardi]

@@TheOuterCircle well then, I’d like to read or at least hear about where in the lore such arguments are made. Malcador seems to think otherwise in the latest book, but Horus is kinda Abnett’s baby. Then again, many authors seem to wank their own primarchs to no end lol. That said, Luna Wolves and Horus are praised constantly throughout the heresy for their victories, with DA and Lion sometimes being comparable to them in standing. Lion is my favorite primarch but Horus is still the greatest until there’s more proof to the contrary.

[@DeusExMachina10001]

@@TheOuterCircle He and Russ were basically dead even, with the Lion winning with a sucker punch after Russ realized what a retard he was being. The Lion was more skilled, Russ was stronger. The Lion is most definitely one of the S tier Primarch duelists but he's not the best. I certainly don't see him beating both Ka'bandha and Daemon Angron back to back. Plus Sanguinius has his Red Thirst on top of everything else. Piss him off too much, and he basically turns into the Hulk with wings. I'd agree that the Lion was a better battle tactician than Guilliman; the Lion, Horus, and Corax were probably the top three tacticians. But a better grand strategist? I don't think so. Guilliman's whole schtick was that he was not as flexible a tactician as someone like the Lion, but if you didn't completely defeat him very quickly, he would adapt and you would lose the long game. Like what happened during his war games with Corax. He's like a Primarch version of the Borg from Star Trek. It might take him some time to figure you out but once he does, you are probably screwed. Plus logistics are the most important thing in warfare, and Guilliman's only rival in that arena was Perturabo. The Lion is better at winning battles, Guilliman is better at winning wars. Horus almost certainly was too. I'm not saying the Lion was some bottom feeder like Angron by any means, but having him be the best at everything automatically puts him squarely in Mary Sue territory, and frankly, his character already can't afford that. He's a half step away as it is. That's just 5th edition Calgar, and we all know how beloved he was...

[@ashlevrier]

4:00 REE you cant have a list that is not NARATIVE.

[@thrall6647]

Greetings! Preiss algorithm gods!

[@-nope3030]

If you care about the lore at all, you won't ever build your entire army in MKVI unless you are RG or AL. It does a disservice to your favourite legion.

[@krism.6598]

I’ve been building my world eaters mostly in Mk IV, the Mk. VI I did get from the HH 2.0 starter box are going to be mixed with Mk.III and Mk IV to represent Mk. V suits made from Corvus armor taken off of dead Raven Guard from Istvaan V.

[@margaretwood152]

---> 19:50 Is there in fact _ANY _*_Major Franchise_* * which GW/Citadel M. Inc. has _NOT_ *"Appropriated"* ** from (???) (* you know, other than: DUNE, ALIEN(S), TERMINATOR, STARSHIP TROOPERS, BLADERUNNER, LOTRINGS, *_'CAT'S EYE'_* etc. ♾📋) (** Aped, Borrowed, Cut & Pasted, *_Copied_* = & other _nicer,_ PR firendly words 🤐🔕😇)