LeMond: Did Chris Froome Use A Motor? | RDMN Podcast Clips

[@TheRoadmanPodcast]

If you want to hear more extracts from Greg, you should check out our clips channel. In this clip he talks about the moment EPO was introduced to the pro peleton kzbin.info/www/bejne/bp2rpI1pqtaqqbM

[@jamesguido9877]

Greg is such a great man and very friendly. Had a chance to ride with him and our common friend, Bob Swanson, in the hills near Auburn California.

[@richardlewis2290]

The greatest moments of my life in cycling was riding with the man during those training camps he did with Steve Bauer. LeMond has blown the whistle on aspects of the sport that others feared to talk about and It has cost him dearly. His credibility has been questioned but then he's been later proven accurate.

[@worldcitizen9202]

I am pretty sure Greg Lemond was doped up in his day too .... maybe he should talk about that ?

[@paulevans6403]

I agree. Any kind of "upper" was not considered doping. LeMond roomed with Fignon, who was an admitted speed freak. I'll never believe LeNond didn't take amphetamines from time to time. Not an accusation, just my belief.

[@mattlatourette513]

@@worldcitizen9202based on what evidence?

[@worldcitizen9202]

@@mattlatourette513 He won ....

[@mattlatourette513]

@@worldcitizen9202 well that’s not evidence so carry on

[@jamesmckenzie3532]

After the UCI started using mobile heat sensors, the number of bike swaps dropped significantly. Before, the motor was run until the battery died as there was no possible way to detect the motor. Some were even used as weights to keep bicycles UCI weight legal.

[@pierrex3226]

Officer, we re good guys, we only used the motor to make the weight legal and lower the center of gravity for the safety of our rider. :D

[@domestique3954]

Absolutely,do you remember when Ryder Hesjedal hit the deck,his rear wheel stopped for 2 seconds and then miraculously started turning again? He quickly grabbed his bike to hide it,but the motorcycle guy behind him saw that and drove across his back wheel and destroyed it. He won a grand tour using this motor,wonder who else used this e-assistance 🤔

[@Gaharaz]

You really trust their pads as a heat scanner ? Sincerly ? It's full of bullshit. UCI controls and punishes only the "third rank" cyclists. With all the proofs we actually have with the 4 fantastics, nobody can say they are white like snow.

[@2003wrx64]

​@@domestique3954so was the motor in the hub? Where was the battery?

[@domestique3954]

@@2003wrx64 No,the motor was in the seat tube,driving the Shimano octalink axle while the battery was hidden in the seatpost,sometimes in a bottle fixed to the seat tube.

[@danzacjones]

The rumours are true, I used a motor to place 7th on a K.O.M during a commute to work in 2022.

[@NewPolishScientist]

Noooo

[@mattlatourette513]

We knew it!!

[@jarnold1789]

How dare you desecrate the sanctity of the Strava leaderboards

[@KvienMary]

Learning from motorsport. The use of calibrated powermeters can be obligatory and officially supplied and installed by the officials. Comparison of pedal power between competitors will determin, if external powersources are used.

[@nicedoppy2077]

micromotors...

[@derekkuhl]

At this point, this question should be answerable. The watts are known, the velocity is known, the weights are known. The calculation should tell you if the equation equals out or if there must be more energy added to the system to make it equal out.

[@SteveNinetyski]

Pretty sure the numbers would add up my friend. Too many suspicious people will go out of their way to eork this out. We'd know if there was evidence of for example "Tadej's 31 minutes @ 450 watts only infact being enough power to produce a time of 33 minutes" All the riders use power data and no doubt use it to compare with others all the time. I for one would notice big anomolies..and for sure many many many other people would. Just my two cents.

[@nicedoppy2077]

@@SteveNinetyski man look at the recent giro di italia, pogacar made the other profesional ryders like some kind of brave amateurs.....he finished so fresh and the others suffering in the line well behind him...and i repeat them not are kids and got good strict training also..... in one climb stage on the third week i perfect remember see the data of the bikes in telemetry and pogacar measure was almost continuous 750 watts and the others were maximum 540, in some spaces because some times go down to 500 or even 400 watts (which is huge but normal in that great profesional ryders!!), buuuut the difference was absolutely brutaal between pogacar and the rest of the platoon theree, sooo noooot fucking way to explain that....

[@michaelmclennan6144]

You'd just have a watt meter that read the number of watts out to compensate..

[@Strange_Brew]

I’m an engineer, I build custom e-bikes. I built a very fast ebike that you cannot tell by looking at it that it has a motor. Just one “go button “ under the bar tape and you have 500 extra watts. Easily cruises at + 30 mph. Will do 43 mph with a little effort.

[@semilog643]

The bikes are x-rayed.

[@Strange_Brew]

@@semilog643 Actually, they use thermal scopes. A motor will glow red anywhere on the bike.

[@Metellus-e7y]

Patent and sell it to us!

[@peterfireflylund]

@@Strange_Brewelectric motors can get close to 99% efficiency with the right design. Maybe a better motor + phase change cooling around motor and battery?

[@Strange_Brew]

@@peterfireflylund I use silicone or electronics potting resin around the stator windings and battery pack

[@suttonfarms2343]

It's a shame, but anytime you're competing in ANYTHING, some people will cheat. Doping, motors, etc, all ubiquitous. When you see something that seems superhuman, it's nearly always a cheat. Not always, there are outliers..........and when someone has a unique talent and feels it on a given day, kudos to them. But, Lemond is right. Be skeptical of some of these performances.

[@wickedpawn5437]

The biggest evidence is: Froome ALWAYS attacked SITTING on the bike. If you have a motor, you can't never stand on the pedals or you'll lose synch with the motor (the engineer from Hungary who manufactures the motors explains it well). The natural way to attack is to stand on the pedals. Froome never did it. He was using a motor. Period.

[@papalegba6796]

Any experienced cyclist who has also ridden an ebike should know froome was using one, it is blatant. I'm really suspicious that this isn't openly acknowledged by the cycling community, guess they need their fake heroes to keep selling new stuff that people don't really need 😂

[@domestique3954]

And don’t forget Ryder Hesjedal who won a Giro with these motors....

[@mirkokovacic8383]

He used to attack a lot standing on the pedals, if you don’t believe me you can watch his attacks on Mont Ventoux (not the one when he dropped Contador but the other one). You can also checked the one on stage 20 in 2013 in Semnoz or stage 10 in La Pierre st Martin in 2015. He generally gives the impulse standing on the pedals and then sits down with a high pedaling frequency

[@Gary-le7dz]

Absolute crap …. Froomes vo2 max was 88 , higher than any winner of the tour except lemond , to say period just shows the arrogance of your argument…. Froome was the start of when cycling was a lot cleaner …. Yes rules were bent but the days of lemond arnsttong contador hinault etc juiced up were gone

[@Gary-le7dz]

Crap when you ride an ebike your cadence is lower ….

[@boomshankah1123]

I became suspicious when Trump posted his record time up Angliru.

[@ChristopherCudworth]

lol

[@dougbella]

My moment came when they said Biden got 2 billion votes.

[@noternunstoned]

Careful you might get the wingnut MAGA Biden haters to reply.

[@swites]

There's another vid of Cancellara on the flat in Paris Roubaix I think? Where he just speeds off from everyone sitting down and gets this huge gap. Looks ridiculous like he's going 20kph faster than everyone else for a short period and just speeds away. Looks dodgy as!

[@paulbradford6475]

See my comments above re: 2013 tour of Flanders.

[@TheRflynn]

Cancellera stayed in the saddle in most situations where others got out, even when he was not putting in huge gaps. Then there was Paris Roubaix 2010 where Boonen towards the back of a small group eating. Cancellera noticed and took off, and everyone looked at Boonen to chase “you are the big favourite”. Its nice to say “Ive spoken to people who knew”, but 13 years on I’d expect to see someone say “I did it”.

[@oldtwinsna8347]

@@TheRflynn Omerta

[@philipk4475]

See 2024 Flanders how vdp hit 60 kph on cobbles??? Morons

[@jesperschultz2727]

@@TheRflynn Correct. I once talked to Cancellara about it and he explained to me how he was more effective in his output by sitting down. Even when he (rarely) participated in sprints he had to sit down to make it effective. You can find various examples of this. I remember a Paris-Roubaix sprint on the line (they were three guys, I believe he got second) and a couple of Tour de France sprints where he sprinted sitting down. For instance the one where he took of a kilometer from the finish line in the yellow jersey. He only rose from the saddle very shortly a couple of hundred meters from the end even though the sprinters were breathing his neck in the end.

[@collax2613]

Honestly have a big doubt about Cancellara and Froome having a motor, because when you look at their climbing time, you can find plenty that were faster.

[@TheNotSoFakeNews]

Dosen't have to be the fastest to still be doping though

[@ivanboesky1520]

It’s not about their climbing times being the fastest. It a about their times being fast enough to win stages and races. And Greg’s point about Froome’s accelerations and drops in wattage is the proof. You simply do not see a rider putting in acceleration efforts to drop other riders and their speed up a given grade increasing and at the very same time their measured wattage output is dropping, not maintaining and not going higher. That’s the proof right there. Plus the bike changes Froome and Sky were making made no sense. No one has that many mechanicals repeatedly in important stages. Cancellera was the same. They were both cheats and had a number of performances that were literally too good to be true.

[@collax2613]

@@ivanboesky1520 Froome wattage was up to 650W during his attack on Contador when looking at his data. He also attacked on an area with lower gradient.

[@TheSheriff1989]

have you seen the footage of cancellara riding away from boonen. Boonen is just about sprinting out of the saddle and cancellara's legs look like they are flicking up faster than he can pedal and rides away easily while seated. it made no sense.

[@collax2613]

@@TheSheriff1989 Then you compare the climbing time and you see that several cyclist have been faster than Cancellara up this climb. If you watch the full race you could see that Boonen was starting slowly to crack before that point and that he was just cooked there.

[@Somerled_1]

i watched the whole interview, it was captivating, great work roadman!

[@TheRoadmanPodcast]

Thank you Michael. Appreciate you tuning in. I've a great interview coming this Thursday with Joe Friel

[@samorourke8837]

Yeah I was amazed at how much I was drawn into it! Re bike changes… I think without googling at now that Michael rogers on the tour down under happened to find a bike with the same pedals, and bloody good brand as well, close to similar seat height etc etc… and swapped to that one to go and dominate. That when I first saw it years ago for me was like ‘….ok..!?’

[@mfh6982]

I never rode with Greg and never heard any rumors about him using PED's. But I was a top road racer back in the 80's and knew and rode with most of the top US riders then. I lived in Boulder at that time, and we all formed our close-knit bunch of guys and gals who were racing. The discussion of PED's, how, where, what, was constant. I used them and so did everyone else, they work really well. I would be very surprised if Lemond didn't.

[@secretagent86]

Eric Zabel. Just said “of course i doped”

[@listrahtes]

​​@@secretagent86that's different. Before EPO some doped some not, with Epo in the 90s when Zabel came up. the surplus in power was so high that you either got on or would never place in the near top. The pressure was completely different. I live near were Team Telekom was medically enhanced and know the doctors. It was with Indurain ( he was Mr Epo) when everyone realized mid 90s you either hop on or get lost. Before that there was no organized doping at Team Telekom. What Armstrong did different that separated him was that like a pro BB he mixed all kinds of Ped into huge cocktails including rounds etc. And if someone blew the whistle he did destroy their lives ( he destroyed several careers) or tried to

[@boblatkey7160]

So you're just admitting that you suck like the rest of them?

[@skippyguy3]

Course you did.

[@Revolg88]

Lemond is as dirty as the rest and just bitter others did it better and he fell off

[@alphaniner3770]

It is great to have Lemond sharing his ideas, I really enjoyed the interview, but unfortunately hearsay in a hostile world of envy and deceit is worth next to zero. It would be good to really dive deep in this motor twilight zone, form a team of different investigators (technicians, physiologists, race commentators, cyclists etc ), stack up all the evidence for and against - thén draw a conclusion.

[@DavidDudley-yy2ui]

or look at the bikes

[@alphaniner3770]

@@DavidDudley-yy2ui they are doing that for quite a while now. Only one with motor found so far - spare bike at women's cyclocross a few years back.

[@DavidDudley-yy2ui]

exactly which is why even Greg Lemond needs to be taken with a grain of salt....his time trial on the first aerobike is still the fastest, how was that done, considering that modern aerobikes are really much faster than the one he rode@@alphaniner3770

[@ivanboesky1520]

The proof is in Froome’s own data going up Ventoux. Putting in accelerations with increasing speed up relatively constant grade sections while his wattage numbers are simultaneously falling. That make no sense from a physics standpoint unless some artificial help has suddenly kicked in. And Greg is correct about riding at 110 RPM’s being too high to be efficient performance wise if you are riding naturally. That cadence is only being ridden at competitively in a TDF climb if you have mechanical assistance helping you.

[@alphaniner3770]

@@ivanboesky1520 most numbers that people bring up are inferred, not the actual measurements. Not sure if you ever cycled up the Ventoux - guess not - but wind plays quite a role there, hence the name. Bringing up numbers as actual proof, you have to make sure they are correct first. Still, if they are correct, yes we can start a discussion.

[@kurtallen8837]

As a ex pro back in the late 80s Doping was rith, back then . Luckily I didn't do it but other team mates did . I was dropped from the team as I was too slow . GL saying he never did ... he did ... look at the white of his eyes back then .. then look at Mikel Landa when he rode for team sky

[@Fifty-one-Fifty]

Fair play man you can hold your head up chapeau

[@DanielSong39]

Yeah I think it's possible to become a pro without doping But they will inevitably be spit out the back I mean the doms are probably all doping too LOL

[@MarufoVega]

so what exactly is the issue with 5 or 6 bike changes during a stage that points at a motor in use? Replacing depleted battery?

[@bryanhodges3005]

No, the bike is inspected at the beginning of the race, then the bike with the motor is switched with the non-motored bike, then switched again in case it is inspected. Now the rider can rest for a entire stage by using a motor and is fresh for the next hard stage. Then in the hard stage they can pick when they want to use the motor powered bike and usually in the big climbs.

[@revelationdetailers894]

Make sure all bikes are inspected prior to the support team vehicles take off for such things.

[@digdougedy]

But how do you inspect a bike without dismantling them? The only way I can see is to use an xray machine...

[@RuairiOTuathail]

​@@digdougedy I think that's what they do now

[@cyclingseth4580]

How does Gregg know the wattage display was accurate 100% of the time ? I love Gregg but I think sometimes he makes a lot of assumptions.

[@freebird61885]

Have you seen the footage? Sky admitted that the power file was leaked/stolen. I think we can be pretty sure it’s legit.

[@jasrod2012]

This guys just needs to go away.

[@clean1566]

I could say the same for you. lol@@jasrod2012

[@rufusgoldstein2655]

​@jasrod2012 Sorry but Greg is the man!

[@corsomagenta]

I beg y'all's pardon in advance but I just have to say that Roadman reminds me so much of a young Eric Idle. Monty Python rules!

[@bg-jo7kj]

Greg is spot on.

[@clarkmatthews5989]

Just curious, do they test all the race bikes for compliance at the races?

[@ZenEndurance]

Sure! And then you just put another bike they never tested on the roof of your team car along with the others and give that to your guy before a big mountain. And then after he does that part, put that bike back on the roof and then give it to somebody on the side of the road that hides it until next stage.

[@othgmark1]

The first time l rode an ebike l knew they were cheating. As someone else stated you do not break away by remaining seated. As soon as you stand up you cannot ride the engine properly. There is a famous video of Cancellara remaining seated while pulling away from a peleton on the flats. How much faster would you have to be to ride away from the pack without ever standing up?

[@S9999Frank]

For many riding seated is more efficient. Cancellara claims to have done an 11km time trial, probably seated 99% and with average watts of over 500. Riding away on the flat is as good as always done by accelerating from behind, and passing the front riders at a higher speed, it then depends if they are able to respond immediately, if not they will have to ride harder than the guy passing to catch him. Very often there is a lack of cooperation with the guys behind, enabling the breakaway guy to stay away.

[@othgmark1]

@@S9999Frank No doubt he doesn't stand in a time trial much. That is for aerodynamic reasons more than anything. Time trials are about steady high speeds not rapid accelerations. Did he stay seated when accelerating from the standing start? I will wait for the video to surface. No one drops a pack of the worlds top riders gradually picking up momentum without anyone staying in the draft. Indurain was a far better time trialist than Cancellara and he stood on the pedals to attack.

[@S9999Frank]

@@othgmark1 There are lots of cases of people just riding others off their wheel while seated on an uphill. Draft is not that strong, for an example from today have a look at demi Vollering destroying the others through a steady seated effort in todays stage of la Vuelta feminina.Her first win of the year !Most such attacks would come by a steady acceleration from the back of a small pack, catching others by surprise.

[@danfuerthgillis4483]

Fabian Cancellara without a doubt has used many motored road bikes. His bike changes were literally outrageous with no damage or any issues with his bikes. Another damaging clue is he always had someone waiting at the bike changes which is very telling since he did not want anyone to look at his bikes that he changed. Why would someone be further down next to people waiting to get his other bike and take it with them? Why not swap bikes with the team car, he was the only one doing this at that time. I believe he did not want his bike swaps examined so he had his accomplice take the swapped bikes, remove the seat post motors and then bring them back to the team cars at the end of the stages.

[@Fifty-one-Fifty]

I think Greg is an honest man and it just like a gut punch to think that riders would do that. It means you cannot trust what you see and you wonder whats the point in even watching. But Froome accelerating and his wattage decreases can only mean one thing. Back in the doping age wasn't great but at least they all were at it or at least most so a level playing field of sorts. Yeah Sean goes quiet, its like TV crews commentators and everyone directly connected to the race are in on the deal

[@stephendavidson4359]

So, if Greg wasn’t doping, how did he win the Tour de France against everybody who was doping.

[@DurianriderCyclingTips]

he is from USA!! USA dont use drugs!!

[@clean1566]

His VO2 is more than most riders. His lungs are bigger.

[@Mockle07]

@@clean1566hahaha sure, that’ll be it 🙄

[@clean1566]

@@Mockle07 research it. His VO2Max was more than any other rider of his time.

[@Mockle07]

@@clean1566 And you’re telling me that you don’t realise that doping can absolutely increase your V02Max?!

[@umutaymakoglu4418]

Do they not inspect all the bikes that are on the cars?

[@Jan-se1nd]

They didn't really inspect the bike at all in the Froome era.

[@nicedoppy2077]

no they didint!!....UCI has been hypocritical in all those cases...probably there are some corrupt officials in the ICU...

[@thecoffeeblog]

I saw that 2010 sprint you mentioned at Flanders. It's hard to believe. I guess Cancellara needed to produce at least 2000w for more than 3 minutes to achieve it. Few people can achieve it but not for that long.

[@fredman1085]

2000 what's is more in league with track sprinters.

[@2011hwalker]

Cancellara 100% had a motor. Its so obvious to see.

[@tellall23]

@@2011hwalker he always had that power as a time trial extraordinaire. Boonen was a sprinter and had nothing left on the Muur

[@ftlikemike]

5.08 no, not at all correct on that Boonen was full gas. Clearly the opposite and if you care to look at the footage properly, by that I mean impartially and the bigger picture shows he was bonking, his legs were gone completely. He got his fuel all wrong. Far too much focus was put on what Spartacus was doing away from what Boonen was experiencing. Look again...

[@guycoghlan7909]

Greg is so informed about all aspects of cycle racing. A legend and yes he was robbed of more than one TDF.

[@durianriders]

If you think Greg didnt use PED's for his wins then you are DREAMING lol. Watch how he sprinted down his USA team mate Boyer at the 82 worlds and what he then says about that in the interview...

[@Petespans]

@@durianriders You clearly haven't heard him saying he was done out of 2 tours due to rest of peleton's abuse. Clearly innocent.

[@DanielSong39]

@@Petespans His PEDs were out of date by 1991, never could quite figure out EPO

[@jeremyjs8863]

Rather good. Thanks to you both

[@ulrikmortensen9426]

Remember seeing froome braking going into a hairpin on the way UP😢

[@jayaybe1]

Saw Contador do that too.

[@marcouno4118]

Yes. Armstrong did that in Sestriere in 1999. The watching reporters in the TV room all started laughing. So-called “Tour of Redemption”.

[@percyveer2355]

many do that, ive done that. do better

[@Gary-le7dz]

Lemond needs to realise he has as much uncertainty about his cycling career as anyone , doping was rife in the mid late 80s ….. fignon completed several TDF s “ clean “ but was doping , lemond for all we know did the same

[@noelmadden1920]

Cur Dave has now rocked up at Man Utd. I'm intrigued to see what cheating methods he comes up with for their players. Player ins and outs will be very interesting in the coming months and years. Will they be willing to follow Cur Dave as Wiggins and Froome did? I expect many Asthma sufferers to be signed.

[@frankreyes4]

Thank you for the effort to enrich thru balanced conversation!

[@SteveNinetyski]

Balanced😂😂😂

[@percyveer2355]

balanced? sarcasm i hope. where were the voices of those in the peloton, those that are being slandered, mechanics who work on these bikes. manufacturers who make these things.

[@leskennedy]

Any examples of people changing bikes 5 or 6 times in one stage ? I can't recall seeing this. I just can't see how a team would get away with something like this.

[@SimonHarlow]

Watch the races motioning Cancellara and you will see bike changes for which there was no obvious reason. This is not proof of cheating but it was odd to watch the races at the time. Also the excuse of a top rider changing a bike due to a mechanical and then changing again a short time later, supposedly because they "preferred" the other bike. Top riders should have a spare bike that is set up properly for them, they should not need to change back because it does not fit properly or is set up differently.

[@leskennedy]

​@@SimonHarlowso the guy who won 4 world championship TT titles and 2 Olympic TT Gold medals somehow needed a motor to help him win in other races ? That just doesn't sound credible.

[@SimonHarlow]

Hi Les. I did not say he cheated. I have watched most of the races of that period quite few times due to the boredom of turbo-training sessions and there were quite a few unexplained bike changes, by Cancellara and many others. Just as a UFO is not an alien space craft, an unexplained bike change is just that, unexplained, but it might have a perfectly innocent explanation. He had two bike changes in the 2010 Flanders, one with about 50 km to go. From what I remember, the changes did not appear to be due to flat tyres. I would like to think Cancellara was clean but I am interested in Lemond's views as well. The Saxo bank team manager was Bjarne Riis, "Mr 60%" as I remember: a reference to his blood hematocrit level in the mid 1990s. Best wishes. @@leskennedy

[@DanielSong39]

@@leskennedy That second TT gold medal is one of the more obvious cases of motordoping you'll ever see

[@TL243]

❤️❤️Lemond!

[@paulbradford6475]

In the 2013 tour of Flanders, I was very impressed when Cancellara surged ahead of Sagan at the summit of the Paterburg. Within 30 seconds, Fabian was almost one kilometer ahead of Peter. Was Fabian's sudden spurt of energy due to a motor I wonder, or was he just a superman on that day? Hmmm.

[@ivanboesky1520]

Cancellera was a massive cheater and there is no way he rode away from Sagan like that without artificial help. He’s another guy, who no one should take any of his results seriously. And he definitely used motors in multiple races beyond the regular drug doping.

[@torma99]

When he won the Tour de Suisse in 2009 I said to myself what an outstanding performace, riding the mountains so well as a TT specialist... it was just too good to be true.

[@craigkennett6226]

Clearly a motor

[@johnnysecular]

:( i got super interested in cycling starting in 2012 and watching the 2013 Flanders Cancellara attack event unfold i was super confused. i feel like an idiot sometimes that i still watch.

[@evanatkins1888]

Have a look at 2010 and see what he did to Boonen. Not natural

[@edwin.jansen]

Greg should do a whole podcast series with these kind of 'did we really land on the moon'-questions! :P

[@hansmiddelburg1366]

In the future AI is going to proof mechanical doping from the past 😮

[@richardpowell1425]

It is fair enough if people point out that certain things they see defy biomechanics or physics and say that it looks suspicious. If something is impossible to do without cheating, and a competitor does it, they they shouldn't be able to sue people for pointing this out. Not cool to slander people without evidence, but with some evidence, why is it bad? Look at Lance successfully suing all those people who called him a cheat, and then he admitted he was a cheat.

[@noternunstoned]

LeMond an American treasure, best cyclist the country has and ever will produce.

[@donsemininski6535]

The only man in the history of pro cycling that never cheated in any way, shape or form. K.

[@PerryScanlon]

I hope he was clean. It's hard to know these things with certainty. He gives a great interview.

[@robbo3132]

He recovered from anemia post gun shot wound with injections and won the tour when they werent sure if he could ride....that was about the time epo became available

[@PerryScanlon]

@@robbo3132 I've wondered about that. If he was clean, then maybe the heart surgery increased stroke volume? It would be through compliance of pericardium or myocardium, if that's even realistic. The simple explanation would be EPO.

[@PerryScanlon]

@@robbo3132 actually there's a lot of factors affecting stroke volume. It would be interesting to hear from a cardiologist.

[@robbo3132]

@@PerryScanlon anemia is low blood cells. He was under the impression that the doctor gave him vitamin B injections to raise red blood cell count, which didnt seem to make sense. It reminded me of a high school running team that started breaking 4 minute miles after intramuscular calcium injections. I spoke with a dutch guy that trained with a spanish pro tour team that had to sign something that said he would take what the team doctor perscribed him without asking what. This was probably to keep the moral burden off the riders and protect the teams.

[@s-ultracycling]

I watched it five times. I thought GL was a bit of a hater at first , but I have to agree with him. His power goes down , gap extends , HR not really going high as much. With just 350 W Froome destroyed. That's not big watts for a pro. Very decent for me 😜

[@cyclingseth4580]

Could be faulty power meter as well.

[@s-ultracycling]

@@cyclingseth4580 yea. Definitely, it could be. But both HR and Power are faulty , unlikely

[@cyclingseth4580]

@@s-ultracycling maybe froome has a very low HR compared to most pros unless you are saying his HR didn’t go up at all during the attack then it would be suss but if you are saying it was let’s say 150 160 therefore sus well his max isn’t very high so threshold could be 150 or maybe lower. Lionel sanders threshold I believe is in the 140s which is most people’s zone 2

[@s-ultracycling]

@@cyclingseth4580 correct, didn't go up much during the attack

[@s-ultracycling]

@@cyclingseth4580 valid points though. We don't know much about the file , his bio numbers , the accuracy of the meters

[@jetthamilton8131]

Chris Froome didn’t use a motor. Greg said that you aren’t efficient up a climb at 110rpm but that’s not true because it depends on rider style, gradient, power, fatigue levels and what you feel comfortable doing. Efficiency on a climb is spinning at a high w/kg / power. I personally ride at a high cadence - power up a climb on hard efforts for me eg 20min @7-8% grad I’ll do 400w @68kg @100rpm and I’m only 16 nearly 17yr old so how could I be doping for example?

[@stephanel4770]

I watched this weekend the infamous 2006 Floyd Landis come back on Joux Plane stage... and noticed he switched bikes at one point. For no reason. Didn't seem to have any problems with his bike. No flat tires. No chain problems. His bike seemed to be going well... It looked very planned. Was during climb of Col de la Colombiere. So, I wonder... besides the blood doping and the testosterones that he admitted to have used... was Landis also motor doping?

[@aliofly]

Very disappointing after everything if he had been doing that, which means he still hasn’t been totally honest

[@freebird61885]

I don’t think so on that one. Don’t think the tech was there yet. I think he was switching to a lighter bike. Motors at the time might have given you a thirty second burst and then be dead. It wouldn’t have helped Landis that day.

[@ulrikmortensen9426]

It was a mountain stage all day

[@DurianriderCyclingTips]

He switched to an even lighter bike.

[@papalegba6796]

Of course he was 😂

[@SamHocking]

LeMond is so full of nonsense its tiresome. To claim when using a motor, your power meter reading should increase in watts proves he simply doesn't understand the basics of how a strain gauge works in a crank arm or bottom bracket or even rear hub. The purpose of any such motor is to assist the rider and so it outputs power 'downstream' of the riders own power, and so the strain on one side of Froome's SRM cranks would decrease when activated. Decreasing strain in a strain gauge = less watts possible to measure and so any SRM would decrease by the watts the motor is outputting, unless SRM linked up with controller of the motor and offset the watts accordingly. I highly doubt SRM would be interested. Also the number of crashes a bike and wheels get broken into every race with crashes, people on the roadside and live TV would easily have recognised wires, controllers, magnets, motors and batteries spill out, but it's never been witnessed once! I remember Greg was also a big proponent of Mr Varjas's magic wheels being used by Sky. French police concluded an investigation on him saying he had a habit of making up stories and had only minimal engineering understanding to make such a wheel. He's since disappeared it seems?

[@daveyboy6210]

nice reply sam ,lots of dum comments on here to feed the none thinking people.

[@MikeStarr1000]

motor doping is beyond all levels of cheating, too bad we're still in awe of these fake moments in our sport

[@borisgurevich5504]

At least it does not damage people’s health

[@Jeromin]

It's all but impossible now with the tablets/xrays they do on almost all of the bikes especially the winners. You really can't hide a battery/motor or you risk a very risky bike swap to do it.

[@Jan-se1nd]

They can't get away with anymore. Fortunately.

[@phdinporn5146]

@@borisgurevich5504 So you wanna tell that you can have a cake and eat it too?

[@taylordw]

So true, it’s one thing if it’s human bodies and everyone is doping, but quite another when you introduce machines to do some of the work

[@outdoorvertical]

Luigi on his motorcycle.... 😅 great stuff

[@user-jv9qz2bu1r]

why would six bike changes suggest use of a motor?

[@S9999Frank]

the idea is that the battery in the bike would empty quite quickly.

[@brianlewis8722]

Thank you Greg LeMond! It's a shame cheaters ruined this professional sport.

[@stevenwoodies2659]

Lot of bike changes at the base of a climb, for gearing i guess 😮

[@stevenwilson8718]

I think those photographers have motors on their bikes too.

[@Bluetoothedshark]

I have a Tri-Ride T-Rocks attached to my wheelchair, I can go up serious hills at over 20mph and I'm 19 stone. These motors have power.

[@ian-robinson]

Froome has had every accusation known to man thrown at him and then some more. The jealousy surrounding his time at the top is off the scale.

[@germurphy4986]

Well Kelly was caught doping a few times....

[@DaleMeese]

LeMond is awesome because he tells the truth and not afraid.

[@yozimerio]

With Froome, take a look at his heart rate going up Ventoux. Increasing RPMs to >100, and his HR barely touches 165. Give me a break: he's an Alien.

[@Somerled_1]

"from another planet" lol

[@collax2613]

Froome max HR is really low at 174. 165 hr is basically 95% of his max hr, basically a vo2max effort for him.

[@h20s8804]

@@collax2613 Right. Max is max. My max HR has always been super high. Unfortunately this doesn't translate directly to power.

[@oldtwinsna8347]

Difficult to base on blind analysis of HR. Really depends on each person. I can do threshold in the low 140s but even little bit more than that (maybe 10-15 watts more) and I'm suffering into the deep 160s. Very non-linear.

[@paulsolon6229]

So? Indurain climbed at 155

[@ralphhorne9743]

I have a Lemond Team Gan that I bought back in 1995. Not like riding with Greg but still a beautiful bike!

[@elviracatherinetalaoc2070]

They should x ray all the bike before and after the race.

[@paulbradford6475]

They do that.

[@CameraRay]

I always felt like Alberto Contador may have had motors. He would always change bikes on the big climbs in the Tour.

[@321bytor]

Well if you 'felt like' it, it must be true

[@CameraRay]

@321bytor I'm always correct so I guess so.

[@321bytor]

@@CameraRay 🤦‍♂

[@fredman1085]

You might be right but teams do have mountain specialty bikes. Not making excuses for him, I'm afraid I don't trust any of the, from the 90's going forward to today. Too many screamed their innocence from the mountain tops and eventually ended up confessing or being caught anyway.

[@spennyfumepipe]

He always was out of the saddle going uphill though

[@bernardbodart]

Last Sunday in the Tour final TT when Jorgenson fell the rear wheel of is bike kept turning same speed while on the ground. Apparently he fell because of a sudden overpower in a steep turn. When the mechanic came and tried to help him take the road again he couldn’t as Jorgenson was already back in motion and too fast (big gear in an 8% climb 😂😂

[@gilbertbernales5201]

I believed greg, only a true bike riders really know the tricks and pure power of bike racing

[@iananddani]

Is greg missing something? I had a realization when training yesterday after listening to this 200watts x 85 cad = 17000 185 watts x 100= 18000 Perhaps when cadence increases, load decreases but output increase. Thoughts?

[@michaelbrennan1389]

The calculation of watts takes cadence into account. It is part of the calculation.

[@iananddani]

@@michaelbrennan1389 yes but do you see where I’m going with it? If you increase cadence then power can drop but yet more work is done. I do have a power meter that uses strain gauges too and observed this. When I increased cadence substantially my power dropped but heart rate increased. Ex cat 1 cyclist.

[@dmitripogosian5084]

​@@iananddani if you drop power but do more work, it will take longer. You cannot climb faster by dropping power. If you need to climb 20 m of elevation, your work to do that is fixed. How fast you do it is determined by your power output. Faster ? Need more power. Doesn't matter in what gear with what rpm you are.

[@iananddani]

@@dmitripogosian5084 can you please express what youre saying in math terms? My statement is based on having a power meter and being an ex elite road cyclist. If you shift down a gear to increase cadence the load decreases but output increases because you are turning more revs. Its just like a vehicles power band.

[@iananddani]

@@dmitripogosian5084 also as you can see in my math above, more work is done with would result in a faster speed.

[@DjDeepfry1]

I am about over Lemond’s holier than thou attitude.

[@courageandclarity]

I about over Joe Biden for President. At least Greg can speak with some authority.

[@noternunstoned]

I know they have wheelchair marathons in the special Olympics but is there any grand tours style or stage races planned for wheelchair athletes?

[@jerrychicken967]

I think with the latest Tour then the motors must be twice the size :/

[@emersonVZLA]

Has Froome responded to these facts? Let’s call them “allegations” for now…

[@jasrod2012]

And all coming from a guy that looks like he ate bikes rather than rode them. You tell me who looks like the better natural athlete Lemond or froome.

[@martincurmi3915]

Completely different eras! Riders in general are a lot more slender and hence lighter these days compared to 30+ years ago. That's how they can go faster with same power output

[@jayaybe1]

@@jasrod2012 On the face of it, they both look perfectly suited to their eras. In the 80s, about the lowest gear you could ride was a 42 - 24. Imagine trying to grind that for 45 minutes up Alpe d' Huez or the Tourmalet. That's why riders of that era had such big, strong legs. Froome's era brought in much lower gears with more of an emphasis on cardio and high cadence.

[@jasrod2012]

Actually high cadence came to the fore long before Froome. The honest truth is that Froome is twice the athlete Lemond ever was. For Lemond to accuse Froome of cheating with a motor is laughable.

[@martincurmi3915]

@@jasrod2012 Lol. Lemond won multiple world championships and made the podium numerous times in one day monuments as well as his 3 TDF. And all without abusing the TUE system, benefitting from any of Sky's other dodgy practices, sorry, "marginal gains".... and no army of lawyers to overturn failed doping tests.

[@tomrachellesfirstdance7843]

Has Greg not watched Primoz? He accelerates with a crazy high rpm as well, he would drop watt bombs at what looks like 130 odd rpm. I would say he is quicker whipping up the cranks than Chris Froome. Also in regards to King Kelly i bet he has it in his contract not to talk about doping and put eurosport in legal difficulties.

[@timothymburton]

They also use shorter cranks now - way easier to spin like mad.

[@N2theLAS]

True but his watts would increase during his accelerations, whereas according to the data Froome's didn't.

[@ivanboesky1520]

Roglic is a persistent doping cheat.

[@DataToTheZero]

One sad thing was we never got to witness one of this lithium powered monstrosities catch on fire during a race. The defenders of the team would be online arguing ' have your ever seen a composite fire? That's just the way composites burn.'

[@waynesilva9157]

LeMond was right about Armstrong from day one, I would never doubt the greatest US cyclist ever.

[@alaefarmestatesllc]

Greater than all the other dopers at the top but natty eh? Lol

[@gc641]

Greg definitely juiced…no way you gonna win td n 3/4 lungs so shut up greg

[@seancarristhebest]

Here il say it. Greg just wants to be relavant. Froome isnt using a motor. Where was greg when froome was winning? Why wait 10 years when theres no way to disprove what hes saying. To act like the team sky bikes weren't the most inspected bikes on earth is just preposterous

[@lesbois53]

Surprising what a small battery can do.

[@jeffdavis5841]

LeMond was a great cyclist but his ongoing whining and accusations about doping (drugs or mechanical ) only lessen his image and his past accomplishments. Yep there was doping going on in cycling when he first got into it and before. Yep doping went on and got more refined as his career evolved. And yep there is still some doping going on now. Get over it Greg, time to let it go and enjoy and take pride in your accomplishments in your golden years.

[@pierovittori1076]

That would explain his time on zoncolan climb 😅

[@geem4973]

If he’s saying this he’s saying that British cycling was involved

[@isitrachelorj3953]

Wow, ya think? Brailsford, Sutton, Freeman, Wiggo - duh!

[@dustind9242]

Jiffybag

[@aliofly]

No shit. The TUE leaks alone with Wiggins show that Brailsford/Sky was doing highly unethical stuff at best, and they were overlapping massively with British Cycling at that point (which was a whole other dodgy situation in itself)

[@cyclingseth4580]

@@alioflymaybe but a TUE is majorly different then putting a moter in someone’s frame

[@aliofly]

@@cyclingseth4580 not the way they were using TUEs with Wiggins, I would argue. Also that was happening when they were publicly stating they had a ‘no needles’ policy I believe, even for legal treatments (not that the TUE was that in reality anyway). With that level of dishonesty I wouldn’t put anything past Brailsford in particular

[@maximumrpm9577]

It's sad that Lemond wants to tear down anyone on the tour who is successful....not sure what his problem is..

[@chrisfulton1689]

Funny how doping wasn't a thing until after LeMond's era. If Lance doped, Greg doped as bad or harder. And I'm American.

[@dirtyoffroader2093]

Genuine question to those that are knowledgable. I'm yet to hear a silient ebike motor.. even today in 2024.. so what magical silient motor was Froome supposedly using back then? And why isn't it in production today?.. Surely every rider around him would of heard the typical emotor whine 🤷‍♂️

[@barryhenshaw9321]

where are these motors?

[@SamHocking]

In LeMond's imagination.

[@barryhenshaw9321]

@@SamHocking Yeah, perhaps... But 10 D cells in the down tube and a motor geared to the crank spindle? Or, a battery in the "water bottle".. or?

[@jedisdad2265]

I am sick and tired of Greg LeMond and his holier than thou attitude. He is the WORST thing to ever happen to cycling as a sport.

[@rickiovine2170]

Yes, Greg, it is hearsay. You have circumstantial evidence that could help convict, but without taking all of the bikes used on a ride aside immediately after the race, and then pulling out the motor you have nothing. If there was suspicion of motoring someone would have gotten caught, or a teammate admits to having one and incriminates the star as also using one. If I stated that Greg blood doped in 1986, but I have no evidence other than his ridiculous numbers on that winning TT, which he could not have produced after a long, grueling tour without doping you would demand evidence, which I wouldn’t have, but, I would have had as much as Greg has for his accusation against Chris Froome. I would add that I spoke with riders who rode in ‘86 and it was well known that LeMond was doping. He conveniently shocked everyone with the first use of aero bars, which he could then use to explain why his performance in the TT was off the charts. I don’t believe one bit of this, and know that Greg was a freak of VO2max, which was what helped him be so great. There is, and never was, any indication of him cheating. But, it is not hard to put a cheating label on someone with unsubstantiated accusations.

[@craigkennett6226]

Actually you have accused Lemond of doping right here. So no ifs. Now here's the thing, Lemond was actually a top rider and is accusing top riders of cheating with as you say circumstantial evidence but he does give his expert opinion on it. Also Chris Froome was caught with a drug positive and only big money got him off and this makes him a legitimate target. So NO there is no equality in your post between Lemond and Froome although the thing against both of them is the horrible doping and cheating reputation that cycling has earned itself.

[@quantumdecoherence1289]

Agree. I think it's over the top for Greg to makes such accusations on hearsay. It really is sinking his credibility. Pretty soon he'll have no friends left in cycling.

[@fmtien]

@@quantumdecoherence1289 I don’t think Greg wants or needs friends who are known cheats.

[@Somerled_1]

Greg's time trial win was in 1989. 1986 i think Hinault won both time trials. but your point stands, and I agree

[@craigkennett6226]

@@quantumdecoherence1289 Oh Dear No friends in cycling who support doping and cheating and cheats. Oh Dear How horrible hahaha Who wants to be friends with all those crooks

[@markfournette2483]

Nothing like Mr. Iron Injections raise questions about everyone else's performance.

[@TwentyTwenty90]

At least Greg was talented

[@jimfree0]

Screw you, Armstrong.

[@deanwaring6100]

Still going on today 😊

[@NeverTakeNoCut-offs]

Sounds like most Zwift races too...

[@davidgillen777]

Look people motors and batteries have been going on for years. My wife uses her motor with or without batteries.

[@garygrainger5810]

Oh go sleep somewhere 😊greg😊😊

[@SteveA-d8i]

Does anyone else wish Lemond would stop whining about riders who put out amazing performances. He is a bloated mess and looks like he couldn’t even ride a century. I think he’s lost all perspective. His opinion used to mean a lot. Not anymore.

[@stevestewart-sturges2159]

not sure but Cancellara did when he blew by Boonen like he was stand-in still...

[@ftlikemike]

because Boonen was standing still. Simples.

[@Joe-og6br]

Just because you were right about Lance doesn't give you carte blanche to shit on everyone. Greg the champion when everyone else was doping. 😂

[@davidthoureau6693]

He was doping too! Just ask Brunel and many others!!!

[@MikeGowan-xo9yv]

Kick rocks. He isn’t shitting on all, just those he has true knowledge of. Learn to pay attention and comprehend…

[@MikeGowan-xo9yv]

@@davidthoureau6693…Brunel is a liar and cover up artist…can’t be trusted…

[@davidlard8490]

I can answer that question. Yes, he did use a motor and it was called CHRIS FROOME. Greg LeMond is a poor loser and talks about every other rider as being "cheaters". Poor Greg.

[@dulls8475]

I used a motor on my bike to place first against my wife during a ride and picnic competition. That kept her in her place for a week or two.

[@parallelsuns1]

Van der Poel and Van Aert were observed using moto powered CX bikes, Cancellara clearly used a motor at Flanders.That female CX racer, Roglic very dodgy ITT with a glowing Bottom bracket. Cyclists are well known to cheat so its very likely its a widespread problem

[@wackybacky6624]

Vingegard did the ventoux 50s quicker than Froome

[@Philobiblion]

Class act, all the way.

[@secretagent86]

Well i have been a fan but you are the one who blew the famous TT out of the water… i never accused or even suspected you cheated.

[@andrewhanson5942]

Can't stand it that somebody outdid you, eh Greg?

[@gtrance3567]

The hair and the accent! 👍

[@ExhumedPutrifact]

You cant really unhear that -