Be fundamentally different, not incrementally better | Jag Duggal (Nubank, Facebook, Google)

Jag Duggal is chief product officer at Nubank, a decacorn neobank founded in Brazil. It’s valued at over $30 billion, is bigger than Coinbase, Robinhood, Affirm, and SoFi combined, has 100 million customers (more than Bank of America!) while only operating in three countries in Latin America, and 80% to 90% of its growth comes through word of mouth. Prior to Nubank, Jag was a director of product management at Facebook, a senior vice president at Quantcast, and a product leader at Google. In our conversation, we discuss:
• How Nubank builds a fanatical user base
• Tactics for driving word-of-mouth growth
• Measuring customer love through the Sean Ellis score
• The importance of strategic clarity
• The role of category design in creating successful products
• Why companies should strive to be “fundamentally different,” not “incrementally better”
• Nubank’s vision for an AI-powered banking future
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Find the transcript and references at: www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/be...
Where to find Jag Duggal:
• LinkedIn: / jagduggal
Where to find Lenny:
• Newsletter: www.lennysnewsletter.com
• X: / lennysan
• LinkedIn: / lennyrachitsky
In this episode, we cover:
(00:00) Jag’s background
(04:34) Nubank’s remarkable achievements
(06:01) Nubank’s product development process
(11:23) Nubank’s values
(12:16) Building products people love fanatically
(15:21) The Sean Ellis score
(21:27) An example project using the Sean Ellis score
(25:07) Picking up the phone and calling customers
(28:20) The importance of starting small and iterating
(30:42) Pushing back effectively
(34:10) Uncovering pain points through customer research
(37:53) An example of setting a clear hypothesis
(43:11) Developing a strategy
(52:16) “Be fundamentally different, not incrementally better”
(53:10) Category design
(57:37) Nubank’s founding story and goals for the future
(01:00:46) Advice for adding new product lines
(01:03:46) The future of fintech and banking
(01:09:23) AI corner
(01:12:34) Failure corner
(01:20:24) Key takeaways
(01:22:11) Lightning round
Production and marketing by penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [e-mail].
Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

[@munmunnath5785]

i loved this podcast so much that I heard this twice. As someone who wants to do work that is not incrementally better but fundamentally different, he speaks to my soul

[@Advaya459]

One of the best business conversations of all time, absolutely LOVED the way Jag thinks and the wonderfully simple manner in which he explains things.

[@richarddodds9556]

Listening from New Zealand. There was so much in this podcast that I could bring to personal and business life. Thank you.

[@jayv7378]

Slightly funny that he mentioned employees having the values memorized and then read the values off a paper 😅. Great convo and appreciate the content.

[@othmangacem6925]

He does an excellent job at making these sometimes too theoretical notions (PMF, NPS ..) crystal clear especially with his great examples from his experience. His relentless search for customer needs and drive to bring solutions is motivating and very insightful!

[@SriNityaAnupindi]

This was a truly exceptional episode--loved it. Thanks Lenny and Jag.

[@alih7628]

Loved this interview and Nilan P from Wise. Would be great to hear from folks at Monzo / Revolut or N26. There is some much product innovation in Fintech that I would love to hear more about. Thanks and keep up the great work!

[@Barbametal]

What a great listen. So many inspiring insights from Jag. Thank you, Lenny.

[@healtharchiculates9807]

Awesome podcast. Thanks for this one

[@29RMORRIS]

Great episode guys!

[@TheRlleo]

what is the name of his favourite product? thanks

[@chan90s]

If any if you are hiring PMs in US, I'd love to connect. I've 6 years of product experience in launching 7+AI products generating north of 100M USD. If you're planning your AI strategy, I'm your guy - worked on 3 LLM driven projects recently

[@heyvidy]

Great podcast. Quick question: Are there two different books with titles "Play to Win" and "Where to Play & How to Win"? Because when I search for either of them, I only get the same book "Playing to Win: How Strategy Really Works" by Roger L Martin. @lenny - could you please share links to these books or clarify if he means the same?

[@LennysPodcast]

It's that one by Roger Martin (who's coming on the podcast!), and this one: www.amazon.com/Play-Bigger-Dreamers-Innovators-Dominate/dp/0062407619?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.ISvH1e4rvxYTVo2URZC3EmAL9pUiuScM72sXjNyZCKMotaV_mv3bAy8SBclM7s5nW2AjwE0zK2oL5QBH6aH3XHTU4ZlXRLaphxk1xo0T5ZUy_HdbQ4JiKowO7cjvJwnwcpIv-qy883BGozcTmFgBkatwES1El118zAv45jIr0hHqa1DKRQmcVULrZrggWDQnnbL-EkpCPF4ITiTzdUoEzLdujyOZoVkRMT6KVeyyh60.0PxfndzTAqKgP4wjBUMfQWEeT__f24f-dfm9NwBUkcw&dib_tag=se&hydadcr=22192_13540992&keywords=play+bigger+book&qid=1715884228&sr=8-1

[@TheRlleo]

i have the same question, but the link in the other comment does not seem to be the right book if you try to match that to the book title

[@LennysPodcast]

@@TheRlleo Where in the episode are you referring to? Let me try to figure it out.

[@whatuserwants]

Same question here..the book title seems to be incorrect at 1:22:33 time stamp onwards. He refers to three books - 1- play to win but I think it is playing to win.. by Roger Martin but don't think it is a digital world strategy book. 2- I think he is mistaken about both the title and author. 3-from third word to first

[@TheRlleo]

@@LennysPodcast thanks Lenny. At the place where he shared the 3 books.