Leopard 2 vs Ka-52 Alligator: Fighting in Ukraine

Recently video material has surfaced from the Russo-Ukrainian war of a Kamov Ka-52 Alligator / Hokum B firing it's anti-tank guided missiles 9K121 Vikhr at M2 Bradleys and Leopard 2s. With several M2s and the Leo 2 appearing destroyed, how did the Russian helicopters pull off this success?
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- Sources -
Kamov.ru (via Webarchive)
"Kamov Ka-52 Alligator Helicopter" via Naval-technology.com,
"Leopard 2", via tanks-encyclopedia.com, see tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwa...
AH-64 pilot, conversation June 2023
Leopard 2 Gunner, conversation June 2023
Video:
- Telegram: various
- Twitter: various
- Timecodes -
00:00 - Leopard 2 vs Ka-52
01:33 - Tank vs Chopper
01:45 - Kamov Ka-52
04:27 - Leopard 2(A6)
07:54 - Battle in Ukraine
10:06 - What May Have Happened
12:13 - Leopard 2 Gunner assessment
15:42 - AH-64 pilot assessment
17:25 - Victory is conditional
- Audio -
Music and Sfx from Epidemic Sound

[@kaiw1182]

Arm chair generals act like western weapons or armored vehicles are immune from being destroyed.

[@markm.9731]

and Russian weapons are out of stock or all rusted at best

[@iannjoroge2016]

I heard that the Russians were only left with shovels to fight...... This comes as a surprise

[@AureliusLegionaire]

I see mostly Russian lovers making the claim that we said that.

[@Tuuum72]

@@AureliusLegionaire ты хочешь сказать, что тысячи комментариев о том какая у нас дерьмовая советская/ российская техника, в течение многих лет писали только украинские боты? У этой войны уже есть один большой плюс, с нетерпением ждём f-16, угадай зачем.

[@thiefsleef6752]

Funny you guys didn’t mention that before Ukraine received those western vehicles

[@VVV85650]

Ka52 uses washing machine engines, toilets instead the ejection seats, and shovels instead of blades-British intelligence.

[@arsic094]

It's amazing what a shovel can do from 10km away...

[@wes9230]

And the pilots were probably very very very hungry and demoralized

[@samteckk9618]

😂😂😂😂

[@edc1569]

Brits have that starstreak shovel thing.

[@BrownBabyJesus]

'in fact we aren't even convinced the Ka-52 can fly"

[@jacksoncronin9540]

It's basically a flying tank, I watched some footage recently of the KA-52 that had been hit. The tail of helicopter was completely gone but the engines and rotors were still working, despite being blown in half it still flew back to base.

[@FreeMind5094]

The tail has not much effect because it doesn't have a tail rotor ,thanks the concentric counter rotating pair of rotors that negates the need for tail rotor.

[@theeagle2566]

need to destroy all bridges on dnieper river to have peace

[@zeitgeistx5239]

What a pointless comment. Cool story bro. Guess you didn’t know how the 2 rotors on the chopper works and why it doesn’t have a tail rotor.

[@eh1600]

@@zeitgeistx5239 average redditor comment

[@someguywhoenjoymusic1961]

​@@zeitgeistx5239cry.

[@martinlatvian5538]

The 10 km distance between the tank and the KA-52 is impressive. Basicly the chopper is very much safe when it attacks.

[@MrSonofsonof]

Possibly. Ukraine claims (and of course it is just a claim - no visual evidence provided - so pinch of salt) to have shot down 6 KA-52s in recent days. This would be possible with NASAMS.

[@williamzk9083]

Appach Longbow was doing 11 km 15 years ago. The Hellfire long bow missile is fire and forget unlike the Russian missiles. The reality is that the Ka 52 are firing from deep inside their own territory and Ukraine lacks SHORADS

[@Jermo7899]

1 manpad, aaa guns, missile systems doesn’t sound safe to me. Helicopters can only fly so fast. Missiles will outrun it any day so will big bullets. But in this case it’s an fing tank it’s not meant to engage helicopters

[@bloodybritbastard]

@@Jermo7899 when you add combined arms this becomes interesting. Soldiers hunkered down on the front line can get a drone up with a camera and a laser, or just their own ground based target designators and illuminate the target. The helicopter stands off 9 km away, out of line of sight acting like a glorified missile truck, fires blind and the missile picks up the laser reflection mid flight. The helicopter does not need to see the target, just get the missile in the air in the general area, and local terminal guidance from the front line takes over, keeping the helicopter out of harm's way.

[@Filip-dg6uk]

@@Jermo7899 10km is way too much my man for manpad to be effective. u need to see it first, then to prepare equipment and then to aim and then to shoot. takes too much time. chopper does job in min-2 and then runs away. Besides. even if u shoot there is chance u will miss becasue chopper has defensive system for manpad rockets. don't know it's name google it. its not 100% eeffective though

[@MGZetta]

Ka-52 success comes down to not only its own capabilities but also the result of Russian drones taking out radars and anti-air systems, Russian mines forcing Ukrainians into a column, and Russian artillery immobilizing Ukrainian armor in the kill zone. Basically, how an army is supposed to work together to achieve the best results.

[@probablyinconsistent4756]

They haven't really taken out any radar or anti air systems, the aircraft are just too low to be detected/engaged. They take a risk being hit by manpads, but when there is essentially a 100% chance they will be shot down by other systems, they take that chance.

[@nohandler1493]

@@probablyinconsistent4756 they did take down a lot of radars, Iris-T, s300 but as you say they fly very low may be 100 feet above the ground and stay away from enemy terriotries

[@drfixit1554]

@@probablyinconsistent4756 You are sadly mistaken. Lot's of proof out there to be seen.

[@haiphamtrung3082]

Mõm thủ thôi, giỏi vào chơi khi có đủ cả các thứ... vì ở đó chẳng thiếu gì các hệ thống phòng không Mỹ, Pháp, Đức... các chuyên gia quân sự nato... nhưng bị đăng xuất sớm nên ucr chỉ còn đi vào mà chẳng có gì cả.

[@Youtubutitoy]

definitely not an american way of using the tank. american assault is a well tuned orchestra while this is just another russian doctrine in practice with western weapons =fail

[@reynardus1359]

Napoleon famously said once: You shouldn't fight your enemies too often or you will teach them how to fight. He, for one, didn't follow his own advice.

[@delfinenteddyson9865]

do as I say, not as I do

[@paullooney2522]

The Austrain painter was a big fan of Napoleon, then he made the same mistake,attacking Russia.

[@Twirlyhead]

Napoleon was a military genius for sure but he did not teach the Duke of Wellington how to fight and twas he who ended Napoleon's career.

[@reynardus1359]

@@Twirlyhead Wellington made his reputation while fighting in Spain and not against Napoleon. Not to say that he was without some skill. Napoleon's career was ended in Russia and then at the Battle of the Nations - Leipzig. Waterloo was an afterthought, - mostly a defensive action until the arrival of Blucher. Wellington's main achievement at Waterloo was not to have done anything stupid until the Prussians' arrival. At best, Wellington is to Napoleon what Scipio Africanus was to Hannibal.

[@UltraTotenkopf]

@@paullooney2522 *It can be seen that Biden's grandfather loves Napoleon, and Scholz loves the Austrian artist, and the fate of them all will be the same!*

[@vasilivasiliev2532]

Russian pilots are also very happy with NATO armored vehicles size. They say that it is much harder to hit Soviet armored vehicles due to the height. As far as I heard in their streams MaxPro and Mastiff are their favorites.

[@fedosize]

It 's just that the designers thought the more , the scarier they are 🤣

[@RaNc0R]

International MaXXPro is like 12 feet tall 🫠

[@user-jr1wo9ot7e]

Мы всегда удивлялись огромной технике НАТО. Но не надо забывать что все что воюет это советское. Не российское.

[@user-dd5gz8ou8j]

@@user-jr1wo9ot7e ка-52 создан в России, а вот ка-50 советский. не забывайте так же про модернизации и от советского у него только кузов. Та же история и с танками

[@user-bn6wr9vq2o]

@@user-jr1wo9ot7e 🤦идиот

[@user-mv9tc7xq4h]

The video shows the column advancing to the point of attack, to deploy into attacking ranks. That is why they march in a dense column, without much fear. The Ka-52 on the video is the latest modification, hence such a good quality sight for night shooting. The same sights are now being installed on Russian tanks. There are several videos of T-90 tanks, where it hits targets at a distance of over 4-7 km with high accuracy. I don't take the liberty to judge if it was night or day, but a thermal imager was used. PS: it is impossible to use air defense near the front lines, because they are very quickly destroyed by Lancet UAVs and artillery. There is a video with a couple of destroyed air defense systems, 15-20 kilometers from the front line.

[@eugenebelford9087]

That's not the point here. It's - so to speak - "perfectly fine" that they managed to land one or two hits. The main issue is the response to that. A response that is drilled into armored or mechanized German units ... Your column gets hit unexpectately and you go "Smoke! Backward! Double quick!". Change position! Don't wait for orders! Move for F*** sake. The irritating fact here is: Since this is so elementary of the way we fight, and these units were actually trained by us: How can this happen? And one frustrating explantion is: On a higher echelon there was some Soviet-era reservist officer, some moron, who tried to use his nomograms, his training just with slightly better technology.

[@LexxoID1]

no need to try to come up with some pluses and additions to the obvious facts, he was helped by a sight, he was helped by an advanced thermal imager, he was helped by advanced electronics, no .. dear friend, it's all about the experience of pilots and an obedient car, early on-board fire control systems were also effective at the expense of the pilots, the point is the laying between the helm and the helicopter .. of course, improvements make it possible to perform the task more efficiently, but this is a maximum of 15 percent of the total .. Ukraine just clearly showed

[@onkelmicke9670]

Those thermal sights are scrounged off of scrapped washing machines

[@user-mv9tc7xq4h]

@@eugenebelford9087 , You have a bad idea what Soviet tactics are :) It is NATO that has problems with tactics, which is not surprising, given the lack of experience in wars with an equal opponent. Just for an example. Until recently, M1 tanks did not have high-explosive shells to fight enemy infantry. While in Soviet tanks, two-thirds of the ammunition consisted of high-explosive shells, since the main purpose of tanks, in Soviet tactics, is just fighting enemy infantry, supporting their infantry with fire.

[@user-mv9tc7xq4h]

@@LexxoID1 , As they say in Russia: artillery is the God of war. It is the artillery that accounts for up to 90% of all targets hit. This is the Soviet tactic :)

[@placeholder7213]

I really like how the ka52 looks

[@frog382]

Its scary i know :D I also like Kamov Ka-50 and its insane considering its only 1 person that would die if it gets taken down.

[@BleedingUranium]

Definitely my all-time favourite heli, it just ticks every "cool" box.

[@Po6om_Bepmep]

...and its sounds as well.

[@alexanderwolf8766]

In addition to looking cool, it is also effective.

[@agrajyadav2951]

@@frog382 hey that sounds bad. Weirdly, hearing 1000 soldiers dying doesnt feel as bad as just one person dying.

[@mrvk39]

The expectations is that when a chopper designed to kill tanks meets tanks, it will kill tanks, especially considering when the choppers were later models than the tanks.

[@mikeromney4712]

touché....:)

[@RazorsharpLT]

it seems that the expectations that everything will kill tanks these days, from artillery, to drones, to soldiers with javelins, to mines (laid by artillery) Everything except other tanks. We've seen like.... 2 videos of "Tank fighting" from the BIGGEST tank army in the world, who's the most proud of it's tanks. And that says a lot. And the successful videos of tanks attacking targets is even less. I mean by god - we even have videos of IFV's taking out tanks.

[@vihreelinja4743]

@@RazorsharpLT so Russia should just drive around and only shoot with ukro tanks that are the same tanks that Russia have? and ukros promise to not use rpg or artillery/mines while Russians are trying to find those ukros hiding in caves? Why dont you go there to film tank vs tank`?

[@snipelite94]

The worst weapon to hit you, however, is that of swallowing your own propaganda. The western media shouted for so long that all the russian helicopters have been effectively removed, that these tank soldiers believed it, and thought it was an acceptable risk, to drive about willy-nilly, without adequate cover. 🤦‍♂

[@aldoconciso]

sound expectations were victim of the propaganda boomerang effect

[@nemiw4429]

Very impressive range from which the helicopter fired that missile. Impressive tech, no word about that in the democrative Western Media of course.

[@novosti_mira77]

В Европе очень много умалчивают о нас о русских К сожалению

[@sergsobani7055]

Need more Leopards for Russian museums. Also, please send Leclerc, Abrams, F-35, F-22.

[@zov_777]

Еще меркава неплохо в патриоте встанет

[@Shavkat.144]

@@zov_777 😆😆😆👍👍👍👍

[@xxmobstrxx8535]

This is a prime example of how training and experience play a bigger role on how effective equipment is. People bashed the KA52 at first because they were used in less than ideal scenarios but in this example it was used correctly while the Leopards and Bradley’s were being used in the worst ways possible with no regard to tactics.

[@nekkobarrina8760]

i think russian weapons is at par if not better compared to western weapons, the only big difference here is the tactics

[@michaelschuenemann3505]

Sooooooooo many Germany Leopards were blown up by Russian "Krasnopol" Munitions - Rockets/Drones and the Mud - they are NOT the NATO Wonder Weapon they said - it was all a Big Hype and on the Battlefield they are Useless - same with the Bradleys and French AMX-10 Tanks ! And some People really believed The Western Propaganda - ha-ha-ha-ha ! Bravo Russia Bravo and Glory to Mother Russia !!!!

[@AJ-zt4bb]

@@r2hildur Yeah, they can counter 4th gen stuff and maybe NATO tanks but they don't have a counter for 5th gen stuff yet.

[@testingmysoup5678]

@@r2hildur new NATO equipment is far more expensive but not tactically much better. Not only that the expense adds to logistical problems which further reduce their combat effectiveness. Look at artillery, just cause NATO has guided shells doesn't mean Russia doesn't have them, Russia just doesn't need them and not only that russias artillery is much more resilient. Russias drones appear better as well as missiles. Certainly Russias tanks are better for the terrain than modern USA tanks would be. Russias fighters are also able to operate in more conditions, and nato's air defense is drastically lacking. Youve been told nato's stuff is better cause it's more expensive but more expensive is a negative not a positive

[@T_81535]

​@@testingmysoup5678so your actually trying to convince us that the Russian military is superior to the US military? Bahahahaha 😆😆😆

[@jesseterrell2109]

The Russian Vikhr laser guided atgm missile carried by ka52 and SU25 is a capable missile and can penatrate 1000mm of RHA. Not something to be taken lightly.

[@MrLBPug]

Ah, someone directly quotes Chris. That's literally in the video.

[@spidersaremean8917]

@@johndoehler8047 SU-25SM3.

[@AlexanderTch]

@@johndoehler8047 Wiki says that Ka-52 carries them also

[@domaxltv]

@@johndoehler8047 It is possible that they would be theoretically capable of utilising them but their fire control system is a lot more primitive and would either not use the missiles efficiently or would require outside lasing support to guide them in

[@non9886]

it was said in some video that russians utilized leopard weakness. so drones and attack helicopters are best for that. and it was imho reason why demage on tanks was mainly on left rare part of tank. this is probably that weak spot...

[@yacir]

Lately the Alligators operate in tandem with Mi-8 helicopter equipped with offensive EW jamming (electronic warfare), that's why they were not detected

[@Citadin]

There are at least 2 key points that the narrator missed here: 1- the Russians use of the remote mining system "Agriculture". The column drivers were confused because previously demined areas were once again mined through this system - panic ensues! 2- the Ka-52s have been upgraded with a system that blinds incoming IR missiles and have been pretty invulnerable so far this month.

[@wolfbyte3171]

... You realize like 4 Ka-52s have been lost in the past week, right?

[@crazygmanssimstuff]

It's more of the advantage of being the defender. The KA-52 has always had IR supressor systems and had EM and laser counter measures systems and the RUSI report claimed that they were quite effective early in the war, it's just that they were overwhelmed by the sheer number of MANPADS being used when Russia was on the offense doing penetration attacks or near the front line with multiple defenders lying in ambush when the KA-52 got too close to their lines. Here the KA-52 can sit comfortable behind Russian defending lines and engage penetrating Ukrainian Armor since there are no, or very few likley Ukrainian scouts that are ahead of the penetrating armor force, with MANPADS and sadly most of Ukraines SHORAD defense system have been relegated more and more to stop drone and missile attacks targeting Ukrainian infastructure.

[@goncaloferreira8543]

​​​@@wolfbyte3171 I will be doing what every person did when Russia said they destroyed some leopard tanks, asking do you have any prove of 4 helicopter being lost, any image or video? If not Ukraine's claim is as credible as Russian claim of destroying the Patriot air defense system.

[@ThangTran-bj4we]

@@wolfbyte3171 and a fifth one was hit in the tail but survived to land.

[@incognito867]

@@wolfbyte3171 still no evidence just claims.. just like Kinzhal missiles all claims

[@alanloyd7164]

Most Ka-52's have their newest EW systems that are apparently very effective against manpads. From what ive seen they havent lost a single heli since the start of the counteroffensive, that cant just be luck.

[@shimadwan8251]

Yep the President S system

[@OrtonHeadXIV]

It's also because they outrange any Air-Defense systems currently or rather, there's a severe lack of SHORAD systems...

[@JohnSmith-gd6ej]

​@@shimadwan8251 The President-S system is the export version, which, of course, has the worst performance. L-370 Vitebsk is installed on Russian helicopters and planes.

[@shimadwan8251]

@@JohnSmith-gd6ej not after Experience in Ukraine 2023..it is a learning experience. SEAD mission today is a DEAD mission tomorrow

[@D64nz]

For a MANPAD to hit a target at 10km it has to lock, then travel that distance. More than enough time to complete the pop-up manoeuvre and drop back below cover for the Ka-52. And no doubt the look before they commit to a shot.

[@clayvanalstyne7805]

Great video. I picked up some great info. Comment section is full of solid respectful comments and more great points. Gave me some really good insight and helps with the lack of footage I see here. Bang up job. Subscribed.

[@EL20078]

Two factors. 1. The KA-52 Pilots are now quite experienced after a year of operations 2. Ukrainians lack ground based air defences since most have been destroyed through one year of attrition and it seems NATO is not that focused on GBAD, due to its strong emphasis on air warfare and air supremacy over the battlefield.

[@somedud1140]

The problem is Ka-52 perception from early war was plagued by war propaganda. Western helicopters wouldn't do any better in this kind AA heavy environment. Ka-52 is the best attack helicopter airframe currently in service, it's also the only attack helicopter in service that features eject seats. However, it doesn't feature fire-and-forget weaponry Western helicopters have, but with Lemur that is changing too. Electronics are also probably worse than in western counterparts, but as we saw, they are much better than speculated.

[@luisnunes3863]

It wasn't a duel, it was an one-sided massacre.

[@edc1569]

Like every air attack on ground units without AA that’s ever occurred.

[@luisnunes3863]

@@edc1569 The question is, are those tv generals as stupid as they've been looking and the ones still in are the same or they just don't care how many ukies die? Both?

[@williamzk9083]

Than tanks were mostly stopped by mines. You can see the craters caused by the mines.

[@sergeig685]

@@williamzk9083 lol, that's artillery

[@williamzk9083]

@@sergeig685 So you are telling me Russian shells have primitive fuses that penetrate dirt and waste all their energy there? The tracks were blown off.

[@RaV591]

The difference in tone in the comments when the video discusses Russian success vs Ukrainian success is staggering.

[@pistonburner6448]

The difference in Russian military and Ukrainian military, as well as their motivations/justifications is staggering.

[@lutherburgsvik6849]

To be fair, that's how it is in the comment section for pretty much every youtube video about the conflict.

[@stc3145]

«Russian success» what is that? Unless they take the entire Donbass in a few weeks and all sanctions are lifted and millions move back to Russia there is no «success». They gain nothing good at this point. Only reason they are still fighting is because Putin’s regime is dependent upon it. They spent 8 months attacking with little to no gains. Other than a few kilometers here and there. We will have to wait a few months to see how Ukraine’s attacks goes

[@RaV591]

@@pistonburner6448 that’s just opinion not unbiased analysis of military operations within a conflict.

[@schutzanzug4518]

@@RaV591 “unbias” ther literally was some spooky music on when he was talking about Russian success

[@frankbarnwell____]

Always a thoughtful, intelligent angle on the topic. Chris!

[@GosWardHen98]

A well thought out video, as usual, highly intelligent as expected. Thanks again.

[@Peregrin3]

From what I can gather I would say the lack of air defense systems played a major role. The Russians prior to the offensive had launched a very intense campaign to seriously degrade Ukraine's Air defense capabilities and it seems to have paid off with the Russian Air Force able to conduct continuous strikes with near impunity, I haven't been able to find a single video of a Russian plane or helicopter being shot down since the Ukrainians launched their counter offensive. Another possible reason for this is that Russia has very good electronic warfare systems.

[@citizenfoffie7605]

and a complete artillery advantage, nearly equal manpower, and if the Ukrainians manage to do a crazy breakthrough a massive multilayered defense

[@ThangTran-bj4we]

Russia lost 4 KA-52 in the last few days in the same theater. Another KA-52 was hit in the tail by MANPAD but it managed to escape. There was a video of the last one limping.

[@1k20a]

The Russians are shooting at max distance during the night. The land is very flat which allows the Russian helicopter to stay low to the ground. This is by chance not because the Russians actually did something, notice Russians air power stays far away. It does not matter how many radar can see them ..

[@1k20a]

​@@citizenfoffie7605the artillery advantage is the only thing keeping Russians alive in Ukraine. The Ukrainians have shown to have better fighting ability and maneuvers.

[@longmist6508]

​@@ThangTran-bj4wethat's just claimed by ukranians. it is fake until evidence is provided

[@thebritishengineer8027]

Turkey lost 10 leopard 2-A4's at Al Bad alone... Without air cover or ECM/Counter measures the Leopard's in Ukraine are target practice. Light on armour in favour of speed as protection, ATG's like the Kornet have advanced beyond this tactic with a hit/kill probability of better than 70%. Even the up-armoured RPG-7 immune Challanger2 (hit 40+ times in Iraq) may not survive a hit from the 1m penetrating supersonic 9K121 Vikhr. The leopard certainly won't, but it does look good in the sales material. Buyer beware.

[@theprogressivecynic2407]

The issue there is that the German Leopards have a Trophy APS, which have a 95% effectiveness rate against even heavy Kornets, while the ones sent to Ukraine do not. It's a blackbox tech that is currently exclusive to Israel (who developed it), the USA (who helped fund its development and installed it on Abrams), and Germany (who bought it for their Leopards). The UK is testing it on Challengers, but haven't finalized the deal. The countries that have it have an incentive to keep it exclusive, as it's the best on earth right now.

[@davidquak4398]

@@alejrodr probably IDF operations

[@joek600]

@@davidquak4398 Against rag tag groups I guess. Israel has very particular needs that dont apply universally unless you are in an insurgency conflict against flip flopers

[@davidquak4398]

​@@joek600maybe, but they have a lot of armoured warfare experience. 1967 and 1973 come too mind.

[@joek600]

@@davidquak4398 Thats 50 years ago. Im just saying that the Israelis are developing techs that suit THEIR needs but no matter how good the marketing, they dont necessarily apply everywhere.

[@user-ih6cl5jx1z]

Awesome analysis and detail without undo bias. Thanks

[@stas2711]

Thank you for such a detailed and unbiased analysis.

[@hyhhy]

Attack helicopter with decent anti-tank guided missiles is basically a hard counter to a main battle tank. Other weapon systems supporting the MBT must deal with helicopters.

[@mekolayn]

Attack helicopter are a hard counter to anything that is not AA. And even then the shorter range AA is countered by long range attack helicopters

[@yamatohime2035]

To make it even worse, attack helicopter could just inform artillery about enemy position and zoom off if it is too dangerous to attack by itself.

[@incognito1409]

@@mekolayn AH is superior to MBT, IFV or any other ground mobility platform because of two things: guided missile with greater effective range vs unguided projectile with far less effective range. It's basically an unfair fight.

[@EDesigns_FL]

@@incognito1409 Russian helicopters lack stealth and are easy prey for SAM's. Ukrainian commanders failed to bring their air defense assets forward, and that is the only reason the Russians were successful.

[@incognito1409]

@@EDesigns_FL First of all, stealth is irrelevant if you can deliver stand-off attacks from good distances at intended targets. Thd AH is not designed or intended to break through enemy radar and act in a lead-in role. So stealth is a redundant capability (also very expensive by the way). Secondly, your point is moot as there is no AH currently on the market anywhere. Again, read point 1. Third, the greatest threat to any AH is not SAM capability but MANPAD at close-in ranges. The Alligator has a CM pod to deal with those. No AH is designed to counter SAM threats, that's the job of other systems.

[@len2063]

Chopper is built to take out tanks. This is a scissor, rock ,paper game. The death of tanks or chopper is not the end of the vehicles. Only how to use them in a toolkit against the enemies toolkit.

[@PigeonHoot]

We can't expect them to be invulnerable now that they use western equipment, or that it's all going to go perfect on the offensive because it won't, attacking like we see here is harder and costlier than on the defensive.

[@SouthParkCows88]

I mean technically the death of the tank or chopper is the end of the vehicle. 😂

[@Nachiel]

But ukrainians dont have rocks against russian scissors. And scissors cut ukrainian paper like sheeps. 🤷‍♂️

[@Screaming-Trees]

@@PigeonHoot I would argue there is absolutely nothing special about western equipment. We are very good at telling people how good we are and how sophisticated we are etc etc but a weapon doesn't at all have to be sophisticated. It just has to be effective and you have to be able to mass produce it. Actually that last point is crucial. Case in point was the T34 tank. The Germans had better tanks, even though the Russians innovated with the T34 (sloped armour for example is an example of true innovation at the time), but the Russians had a very good tank that they could mass produce. That was a far better decision.

[@OGPatriot03]

How many modernized T-72s could you buy for the cost of a single modern MBT from the west? - I'm guessing a fair amount and if that's the case the T-72 is vastly superior all things considered.

[@frankbumstead3838]

Your Channel and Ward Carroll's Channel are my two favourite military sources. With guests like Professor Justin Bronk from RUSI make a fantastic team.

[@andrewduan5123]

I think the footage of the destroyed column and the helicopter footage are 2 different locations. You can see that the road isn’t actually the same in the post combat footage and the tree line is too far to be the same place. Red effect does really good analysis of this and he concludes that the 2 leopards in question in this column were probably destroyed by drone and artillery. The helicopter attack is on a different tank column.

[@user-lt4sr8mv7c]

На кадра удара ночью по дороге вертолет уничтожил самую опасную единицу, и это была заряженная машина с реактивной системой залпового огня Град.

[@gigiganymed9969]

Now we have the "animal phase" with leopards, alligators and soon falcons.... Next "natural disaster phase" with Typhoons, Tornados and maybe even Lightnings....

[@V_Agapov]

Next phase - Sarmat!

[@alexanderwolf8766]

LAST PHASE: SATANA👹

[@user-ki1nc1cs7d]

Ка-52 - это очень хороший ударный вертолёт, один из самых лучших в мире (возможно, самый лучший), с мощным вооружением. Есть только один минус этого вертолёта - что у российских вооружённых сил их количество не так велико, как хотелось бы. Однако, вне всякого сомнения, наличие авиационной поддержки является большим козырем ВС РФ в противостоянии с оснащёнными современной натовской наземной текникой ВСУ. Этот козырь способствует значительному уменьшению потерь российской армии, в то время как потери ВСУ в этой войне и в контрнаступлении просто огромны!

[@benzobak]

Ага, да, и именно поэтому потеряно уже 36 Ка-52 ;)

[@user-ns4wi1zg4f]

@@benzobak это где ты так насчитал? /// пруфы//?

[@Olegio04]

@@benzobak Тебе бабка возле подъезда сообщила?

[@saint_alucardwarthunder759]

@@benzobak для таких наглых залëтов к столице противника 36 вертолëтов потерять - это капля в море. При толковой ПВО, каким бы крутым вертолëт ни был, его бы сносили пачками не только ПЗРК, но и ЗРК и ЗРПК...но не на Украине, потому что все Тунгуски/Шилки/Буки не то в запое были в те дни, не то за свой зад опасались.

[@benzobak]

@@saint_alucardwarthunder759 уже - 44 ✍️

[@drscopeify]

The open plains with rolling hills, mine fields and limited coverage of tree lines is such a prefect playground for the attack choppers. It's just 101 basic environment playing it's strong hand here.

[@langdons2848]

Well that's a powerful demonstration of the importance of training, and combined arms.

[@stayhungry1503]

thanks for being factual and analytical and not just ignoring ukrainian/NATO flaws like many others do.

[@user-bm8cp7wp5p]

Наши русские лётчики ждали и молились чтобы украинцы поехали именно к ним, ведь за подбитую западную технику они получили призы. Как красиво горели леопарды и Бредли 🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺😆😆😆

[@Humorless_Wokescold]

I'm sorry your father tried to sell you for a pack of cigarettes. But you survived and should take comfort in that.

[@Human95]

@@Humorless_Wokescold I’m sorry your father didn’t came back with milk 🥛

[@johnnycracker8191]

@@user-bm8cp7wp5p You guys are still not winning, russia should be in kyiv by now which they aren't.

[@vitordio2472]

@@user-bm8cp7wp5p coitado do orc russo acha que vai ganhar a guerra A Rússia já perdeu mais de 200 mil soldados Podem mandar mais que a Ucrânia dízima todos😂😂😂😂😂

[@yamatohime2035]

About tank vs tank combat... You know, for tank vs tank combat you need: -To lose contact with your infantry support (which is a part of larger tank unit in Russia); -To lose contact with your artillery support (which is a part of larger tank unit in Russia); -To lose contact with your close combat air support (like attack helicopters); -To find some flat ground; -To find another tank from other side that was not spotted by drones and spotters (which can lead to artillery strike or helicopter strikes... or even if you are really lucky to be targeted by jets).

[@D64nz]

^ This ^ Basically if it happens on the modern battlefield, a lot of things have failed. Which is why it almost never happens on the modern battlefield.

[@papaversomniferum2365]

Yet it still happens, there are some videos of Russian tanks and IFVs running down the road and being ambushed by Ukrainian tanks from hull-down position. Sure, it does not happen often, but it happens from time to time. Anyway Im glad, that some (older, but still better than Leo1 and so on) Merkavas are most likely being sent to Ukraine, as Merkava tanks can at least carry troops and protect IFVs like Bradley/Marder/CV-90.

[@heyhoe168]

Biggest tank clashes during ww2 happened when one side just did a breakthrough an the other make a strike to stop a breakthrough. So yeah, not a great time for tank crews, they are not supposed to fight this way.

[@MrZlocktar]

​@@papaversomniferum2365 Same videos exists from Russian side as well. Like the one video when one tank immobilized entire armored column, destroyed multiple tanks and IFWs and then retreated under smoke coverage. This is not tank vs tank warfare. It's called ambush.

[@papaversomniferum2365]

@@MrZlocktar I know, both sides had their bad and good times, somehow Lancets "learned" how to penetrate a simple fence. Even being pro-Ukrainian I'm trying to be unbiased. Anyway - when tank/IFV fights another tank/IFV it should be considered as a vs battle - even during WWII tank warfare was mostly fought from concealed positions. Who hits first wins. If You're waiting for a gigantic clash like in 43' battle for Kursk it aint gonna happen - sorry :P Remember battle of 73 Easting? It was an ambush. On a freakin flat desert. No one is stupid enough to put tank vs tank without any ace in his sleeve - and this ace in sleeve is called an ambush or element of suprise :)

[@Kinetic--Energy]

Nice, especially the few short clips of me driving the A6!

[@kamui004]

Very good and unbiased analysis of what happened, how and why each side's combat vehicle crew failed or succeeded and the lessons that must be learned from this.

[@raylopez99]

UKR needs fighter jets. That's a lesson that you don't even need to view the video to know.

[@loganknezovich8394]

@@raylopez99 yeah and how do you propose Ukraine gets trained pilots for them in a short time, not to mention they still have the massive problem of Russian air defense systems, so fighter jets would do very little, if anything at all to change this situation.

[@ryandecker5191]

@@raylopez99 fighter jets will face the same fate as tanks when there are countless anti-air systems in place (advanced) due to Russia investing heavily in these decades ago.

[@naamadossantossilva4736]

​@@loganknezovich8394"Volunteers".Add in a cover story about stealing their planes during training flights and you can have F-35s on Ukraine in no time. I copied.this from an old soviet playbook.

[@pistonburner6448]

Imagine how different this whole scenario would've been if Ukraine had Apaches, Tigers or Mangustas.

[@elmaxidelsur]

Driving so many vehicles in a line whiout any air cover thru a minefield ir just asking to get in trouble... .. . For sure they knew it but had no assets available to them, decided to take a chance anyway to push on the attack and did not pay off. In some videos you can see them engaging the goods to their left, they had no clue what was attacking them. They were completely not expecting air assets on the Russian side.

[@marco529]

They got all their gear from a NATO Yard Sale.

[@Wayne72LEVRAI]

Don’t forget that both sides can deploy minefield from far away with missiles too, so sometimes they go to enter in a road with no issue, but this road will be a minefield later when they go back.

[@christianpervert525]

They believe the CNN, BBC - NAFO hype instead of reality.....a common problem in today's society.

[@Talon3000]

@@marco529 and it still kicks the corresponding russian equipment to hell when it comes face to face

[@edc1569]

Maybe they should try going on parallel across the minefield next time.

[@rodrigoquiroga8590]

This is by far the best channel of all those I ve seen upon the Ukranian war !! Congrats !!

[@simonmoorcroft1417]

So Chris, just happened to watch this video and Preston Stewart's "The Lancet Problem" video back-to-back. Fundamentally AFV's are vulnerable to aircraft and attack helicopters employing stand-off weapons, so they need close support from SHORAD. However, SHORAD is vulnerable to loitering munitions and cheap kamikaze drones. A solid dilemma. Its obvious that tanks are not obsolete. They must however, become even more sophisticated (and thus expensive) to ensure their survivability. Self-protection against all threats must be increased. Future tanks will be less Sherman and more F-35. Active protection as standard to defeat close range threats. Active and passive sensors to detect threats at distances up to 15km. Roof mounted remote weapon stations capable of acting as 'point defence' using a 25-30mm autocannon firing air-burst ammo paired an anti-drone EW jammer 'gun'. As for self-protection against attack helicopters. Some tanks can already fire cannon launched ATGM's. The Israeli LAHAT comes to mind as does the cancelled XM111 mid range munition. Those have ranges upto 10-12km. It would seem that a cannon launched SAM is a possibility. LAHAT can be carried like a normal 120mm round. That means a tank could carry 2-3 short range SAM's for emergency self-protection.

[@thomaskositzki9424]

When I read the first headlines about this incident I was thinking: "So Ukraine started assault operations and lost a column of vehicles... what did you expect?!?!" Anyone with even a slight idea of modern weapon's lethality knows how easy and quickly one can lose a lot of vehicles/troops. Add confusion/incompetence and you are in for a deadly experience.

[@JohnSmith-gd6ej]

The point is also that in the last 20-25 years (maybe more) people have been told: Russia is a third world country; In Russia, all military equipment is rusty scrap metal. And only the West knows how to make great tanks, planes, helicopters, etc. and so on.

[@mkultra3679]

It's even more simple than that: Unless you have overwhelming firepower in the air and on the field, an assault will ALWAYS come with losses...

[@fellowsound1241]

not been into war but i have 1000 hours milsim cqb etc airsoft expirence they dont even paint there white faces

[@godhallelujahgaming7947]

Yet you don't bother to give that same context to the Russians whenever they have their own similar misfortunes😂😅, coping clown

[@mappies123]

@@fellowsound1241 you airsoft experience means jack shit you larper lmfao

[@Milo-id9qd]

Leo 2 gunner is wrong, Gepard cannot engage a KA-52 at that kind of range, it has around 3-4km range with guns, it's way out of it's range.

[@koskok2965]

He also forgot that the moment the search radar turns on (never mind the engagement radar locking the helo), the pilots of the Ka-52 will be promptly provided with the exact direction of the darwinistic dumb@ss who thought engaging an attack helicopter with a SPAAG at 10km was a good idea.

[@privatepyle3059]

But the Gepard could have shot down the missiles fired from the helicopter and saved the tanks.

[@koskok2965]

@@privatepyle3059 No

[@Milo-id9qd]

@@wilhelmeley6617 1 - totally agree 2 - a gepard in this exact situation, could not stand ahead of that collumn because it was advancing in a line through a minefield. SPAAG's are support, they should stay a little back 3 - search radar is irrelevant, engagement is important. With flat terrain and hugging the ground, the search radar might not have found him, and the engagement radar (different radar, the bulbous dome on the gepard turret front), it might not have been able to track him right, due to the difficulty of having a treeline, the helicopter might have just lightly peaked on top But even if it did, guns cannot engage at 5+km, and Vikhr was shot at the extreme range, which is about 8-9km (top is 10km). You need an SPAAG with missiles that can track, ideally with a radar (because FLIR might not pick him up at that range that well). Pantsir's missiles can hit at 18km for instance. 4 - not sure if IRIS-T system would have helped, they were blind though, the russians don't seem to have a fog of war anymore, they can see the whole battlefield.

[@privatepyle3059]

@@koskok2965 why not? The missile flew more than 24 seconds

[@ThePRCommander]

Thank you for this analysis.

[@Sugarnaut]

Outstanding post, brother!

[@Team6OWG]

Stingers have a range of 8km, the Stormer with Starstreak has a range of 7km, the Igla has a range of 6km. They dont have AD that can reach helicopters.

[@target844]

They do not have MANPADs that can reach it. They do have vehicle base systems 9K33 Osa, Tor, Crotale, and perhaps some others with the required range.

[@crazygmanssimstuff]

That's absolute outlier max range of those MANPAD systems, not effective range. Effective range for most manpads is less then 5km, and more around 3-1km, espessialy against a non afterburning jet exhaust fitted with heat suppressors that most attack helicopters have. 10km range on the vikhr missile is also on the outer max limits, but they have the advantage that as long as nothing obstructs the laser they can still guide the missile as long as it's within the kinematic range of the missile, but with heat seeking missiles it's much harder to lock surpressed heat signitures at the max effective kinematic range of a manpads. Also a MANPADS has the disadvantage of having to work against gravity to reach it's target, while an air launched ATGM has gravity assisting it to a small degree.

[@Miami1991]

​@@target844 they are all depleted or held back in Kiev to protect infrastructure, if not we would of seen them already on the frontlines

[@OrtonHeadXIV]

@@target844 Don't we have anything with a range of 20+ km like a pantsir like system? OSA and TOR are so few now i don't think they're willing to use them on the front

[@erwinvalken154]

@@OrtonHeadXIV Not really, A Crotale perhaps? The problem is, we dont really favour SAMs as our airforce (NATO) takes care of the problem. While the russian realizes that they cant compete in the aviation game thus they invest more money into SAMs instead

[@Iraia_Roberts]

Range and elevation really helps helicopters when taking on tanks. Ground troops needs mobile radar and sam units operating with armour. 10km is a long way to be able to hit your target from.

[@bluemarlin8138]

These videos definitely don’t look like the helicopter was 10km away. As for mobile radar, it seems like marine weather radars found on a lot of sport fishing boats could easily be adapted to this purpose. Even if they couldn’t get a weapons lock, they could let the ground units know that a chopper or drone is present and give the general direction. Then the troops could use their own thermal sights and engage with guns or MANPADs. Or just send some Gepards backed up by SHORAD units. It’s possible Ukraine might have to move a few NASAMS or Iris-T batteries closer to the front lines, even if it leaves cities somewhat less protected. Patriot can take care of most of the big stuff.

[@user-ls3sx7ks5q]

Patriot can't do anything, according to Scott Ritter, the Patriot system could not shoot down enough Soviet-made Scud missiles from Iraq

[@giodima4024]

@@bluemarlin8138 ха ха. Gerard не поможет. Для этого им нужен ЗРК Тор, но кроме России его никто не производит. Есть что то похожее у Турции, но не понятно в каких количествах. Iris t уже подъезжал к ЛБС - уничтожили радар Ланцетом.

[@MRNDESO-ps7bz]

An any MBT must be instaled short radar & Manpads

[@D64nz]

​@@bluemarlin8138 You know they have magnification on their IR scopes right? This isn't seen with a blind eye. Also all of the Ukrainian air defences have been specifically targeted and wiped out over the last few months. Gepards, Patriots, and the few remaining S-300's are all in ruins to allow the KA-52's and Su -25's to roam freely. It's the first time Ukraine has tried to actually push the line which means coming out from behind what defensive fortifications they had and without that all important air cover they are paying a severe price. 8000+ causalities already, and countless tanks and hundreds of IFV's are confirmed destroyed in the last few weeks alone. All of that and they haven't even seen the first of the five Russian defensive lines. They are still in the grey zone between the two forces.

[@SerijoschaM]

Thank you for this analysis, which seems to me to be very serious and objective! Combat with combined forces is very demanding and to send armored units into the open field without sufficient air defense, as in this case, is probably more a sign of weakness in military strategy, perhaps of a lack of options, but certainly not a sign of "the end" of the use of tanks in combat with combined forces.

[@gun_nerds]

Doesn't sound like the AH-64 pilot is well versed in the KA-52 capabilities. Radar based AA is a really bad idea, as the KA-52 is commonly equipped with the Kh-25MP, which is a dual-use anti-radar missile. It was designed in the cold war and specifically made to counter western AA such as the Gepard and other radar based systems.

[@williamzk9083]

Russian anti radar missiles are generally regarded as failures.

[@Commonlogicguy]

Hey, if Rambo can drive a T62 into a Hind then I don’t see why leopard can’t take on a Ka52😂

[@kureed79]

I just remember a Call of Duty/Battlefield game trailer, where a F-35 pilot shoot a Su-57 using handgun while ejecting then goes back into the cockpit.

[@user-hk1qn9ue2t]

Because Rambo was a hefty muscle man, not a soy non-bnary lgbt +. Don't forget - Ukrainians were trained according to the NATO standard, in accordance with inclusiveness and tolerancy.

[@newlevelgamer5879]

Russian ka52 only good for destroying Agricultural machines 🤣🤣🤡🇷🇺👉🏻🚜

[@sumosami]

@@kureed79 that was battlefield and it was rpg7 not a pistol. some player did the clip in bf3 back in the days. But dice add same kinda scene in battlefield 2042 trailer

[@jeanpaultongeren125]

lol😂

[@wootle]

When it comes to capability and hitting power how does that Mi-28N compare to KA52? Theres a version of Mi28 with spherical rotor mounted radome and its cannon is massive. I think the same gun as on a BTR. I saw and Alligator close up at an airshow once. Terrifying looking thing, cant imagine being hunted by one. Most impressive are its ejection seats. Great video as always, objective and to the point.

[@joaopaulovianaladislau4105]

The Mi-28NM (More advanced version) is slightly better than the Ka-52 in general technology, but there is a new version of the Ka-52, which is the Ka-52M, which makes the helicopters almost identical in their capabilities. But the Ka-52 ends up winning on a small margin because of the amount of weapons it can carry, the tandem rotor and the ejector seats.

[@wolfdima]

Mi-28 is more like a replacement for Mi-24, heavy assault helicopter. Ka-52 is lighter and more agile assault-recon

[@MGZetta]

Mi-28 is as advanced as Ka-52 if not more but Ka-52 takes much more beating before it goes down. Also, it has more fire power if I'm not mistaken.

[@D64nz]

@@MGZetta I may easily be wrong but I get the idea behind the MI 28 was to attack at speed, following the style of the Apaches, whereas the Ka's are there to loiter at the edges and pop up to attack any unlucky convoys. The Ka-50 was able to do all of this with a solo pilot, letting the system do most of the targeting work. I do see the benefit of a co-pilot specifically for targeting though.

[@MGZetta]

@@D64nz I don't know more than you do but it seems like Ka likes to lurk more than Mi. So you are probably right.

[@angry-cat-dad]

Does the ka52 not have automated contrast based tv tracking like the earlier ka50, albeit with the addition of flir? Are those 'vhikr' beam riding? They don't look like they are, i wonder about the veracity of this footage?

[@henker69]

now that is a solid analysis. comprehensive, pin-point-accurate and thus providing precise and correct conclusions. but most of all i appreciate the cold, purely analytical tone of this lehrfilm and the avoidance of siding with any of the feuding parties involved. no questions left but one: do i hear a slight german accent..? if so: lob und anerkennung. weitermachen..😏

[@SegzWithTedCruz]

Yeah calling this a 'duel' would be like calling Muhummad Ali fighting Mr Bean a "duel". It has entirely consists of leopard existing and the ka52 making it cease to exist

[@Richwiking318]

😂😂😂😂

[@domaxltv]

Pitting Mr. Bean against anyone should be considered a violation of human rights. Noone survives the Bean.

[@CaratacusAD]

The recent Ka-52 Alligators have apparently been upgraded recently to improve their electronic warfare systems in dealing with multiple manpad type threats. The Russians seemed to have learnt from their earlier mistakes and are now very well organised, lead and equipped. This seems to happen throughout history with them. It's difficult for the Ukrainians, the Russians have constructed a very intricate multi-layer defence system with a flexible front zone before you even hit the first line. There are artillery, mines, mobile ATGM units in all manner of vehicles. I've seen a Lada Riva retrofitted with a Kornet if you can believe it!!! The Russian air force is unopposed, and tactics improved. Any air defence brought forward would be destroyed by drones etc...

[@trevorsutherland5263]

That's not possible; Russians are dumb, vodka-swilling conscripts, armed only with shovels, that will run away as soon as the shooting starts---they can't possibly learn, adapt, and fight bravely.

[@darthtleilaxu4021]

You are correct.

[@nookbandit]

The problem is there’s not enough of them, various pre war numbers were between 100-140 with reports of 35-40 being destroyed with 4 or 5 being downed this week. Russia seems very slow to adapt and with UAF receiving various anti air assets who will also adapt

[@veeaa]

Source? I'd like to see how they have been upgraded. The fact that they are performing defensive actions from behind their own lines should give them an advantage against forward Ukrainian troops. Previously they tried to do invasive actions over the Ukrainian frontlines where, unsurprisingly, the defences cost many Ka-52s.

[@nookbandit]

@@veeaa I believe you are spot on but Russians and their knee pad wearing fans are obsessed with adding another inch to their member.

[@tunisiandom9318]

1/ Ka-52 has a Radar. using smoke screens will not stop vehicles from being detected. 2/ Ka-52 can use other missiles (other than Vikhr) that use other guidance modes. Ataka uses radio link guidance. LMUR uses optical, Khrizantema (was adopted to launch from at least Mi-28N) has radar guidance. 3/ T-90M has Laser warning receivers, why none of the western vehicles have them ? especially when they know their most probable foe is Russian made crew served ATGM and they are exclusively laser guided.

[@williamzk9083]

How do you know western vehicles don't have laser warning devices? Such systems have been available for decades. Perhaps they are not advertised. Russia boradcasts everything to try and sell tanks to india.

[@jeandelenfant]

Informative tactical analysis with minimal bias.

[@derbigpr500]

It's not really a fight if only one side is doing the work, Leopard doesn't even know what hit him against the KA52. Also there's a new video out showing a T72 tank destroying a Leopard 2 with an ATGM hit, so it's not just helicopters taking them out. ATGM's that Russia uses and NATO doesn't on their tanks, is far more effective than some would like to admit.

[@Trikipum]

The hit in the video is a bradley.. it shots a missile just as the russian missile arrives...

[@spidersaremean8917]

@@Trikipum there has also been numerous videos of them actually hitting leopards but nice nitpick

[@jamesmorrison4976]

@@spidersaremean8917 nope, there aren’t much videos out there, just different angles of the same video mostly but maybe you mean the video where they take out harvesters, lol

[@liesdamnlies3372]

@@jamesmorrison4976 Hey man, those combines are spooky!

[@poki580]

@@jamesmorrison4976 yeah because ukrainians reverted back to their soviet stock tanks

[@Dawkins007]

Excellent presentation. I particularly like the way you used analysis from military personnel with relevant experience.

[@PanzerkomandantFencer]

i dont think i am wrong, im **sure** i am wrong, but it looked like the sight was shaking a bit and at that distance that shake would move the missile like half the length of a tank, so im wondering if thats actually of any significance or its just the camera and the laser designator is right on point without any drastic shaking?

[@JamesLaserpimpWalsh]

Stormer is being sent there . Im sure I read that. Those are perfect for this situation. They can detect up to 10km I believe and shoot up to 6km. As far as I remember. Cheers Chris. Great work as ever.

[@petersedliak4362]

Yes, also american Avengers systems were sent there, but yesterday whole column was taken out by russian FPV drones.

[@williamzk9083]

Unfortunatly these MANPADS based systems have about 35% the range of a proper SHORAD system like Roland, Crotal or Rapier. West really screwed this form of air defense by under investment.

[@fivestarAZ]

Thank you for your efforts in supplying an informational backdrop to what I am seeing. It's tough to figure out the truth from the story that often accompanies the pictures and videos. I watch these vids though with a great deal of sorrow for the loss of life. Kindest regards.

[@wilfredomontuerto4573]

The hard lesson learned is to "AVOID WAR" as there is no winner in war, only immense death and destruction. PEACE must be sought in all circumstances of misunderstandings and disagreements. Where there is war EVERYBODY suffers and more suffering is extremely experienced by the losing party to a war.

[@tarektechmarine8209]

the winner is Russia, they gained land. CLEARLY a win.

[@attananightshadow]

Like the F3’s in the background. My uncle flew one of those in the first gulf war.

[@cannonfodder4376]

A good, comprehensive and objective analysis of these helicopter attacks and the footage thereof.

[@DDayJayke]

This is the longest War Thunder top tier match in history

[@YourBelovedAme]

yessir

[@saint_alucardwarthunder759]

Any WT player, watching people get surprised by Ka-52 performance: *What did yall expect?*

[@marcelogonzalez8547]

A bit of credit has to be given to the Russians, it wasn't all the Ukrainian's soldier's fault. First thing is this offensive has been broadcasted months in advance, this gave the Russians plenty of time to prepare the terrain ans shape the battlefield, thus forcing the Ukrainians into advacing using pre-planed kill zones, such as the open terrain we saw in the videos, and restricting their formations and deployment to make them more vulnerable, such as going in a line because of the threat of mines. The Russians also had plenty of time to seek and destroy Ukrainian air defences in preparation to the weeks prior, as they had been doing. In my oppinion the greatest factor in the defeat of this offensive was that it was treated as a PR operation and that Ukraine was politically pressured into launching it, thus giving the enemy plenty of time to plan on how to prepare for it, when in truth the time and place, or even the existance of such offensive should not only had been treated as a state secret, but also plenty of diversory information been created in order to keep the Russians from predicting it. It's unbelievable that everyone and their grandma knew for months about not only the existance but also many details about the offensive, such as the weapons being used and possible locations, from the news.

[@letsplaywar]

"Loose lips sink ships" is a phrase that originated during World War II as part of a public awareness campaign in the United States. It was used to remind people to avoid careless talk or revealing sensitive information that could be exploited by the enemy. The phrase serves as a cautionary reminder that loose or careless talk can have serious consequences, potentially leading to the sinking of naval ships or other military failures. In the context of not revealing sensitive or classified information or battle plans, "loose lips sink ships" can indeed be applied. Here are some steps to understand and apply the concept: Awareness: Recognize the importance of safeguarding sensitive information. Understand that certain details about military operations, plans, capabilities, or vulnerabilities can be exploited by adversaries and may compromise the success of missions or endanger lives. Responsibility: Accept personal responsibility for handling sensitive information appropriately. This includes not sharing classified or sensitive information with unauthorized individuals or discussing it in insecure or public settings. Need-to-know basis: Only disclose sensitive information on a strict "need-to-know" basis. Ensure that individuals who have access to classified or sensitive information are cleared and have a legitimate reason to know that information. Confidentiality: Maintain confidentiality and adhere to any security protocols or classification guidelines established by the organization or military. Understand the levels of classification (e.g., top secret, secret, confidential) and handle information accordingly. Operational security (OPSEC): Understand the principles of OPSEC and apply them to protect sensitive information. This includes avoiding discussing operational details in public places, refraining from sharing specific plans or tactics on social media, and being cautious about conversations that might be overheard by unauthorized individuals. Reporting concerns: If you become aware of someone disclosing sensitive or classified information inappropriately, report it through the appropriate channels within your organization or military chain of command. By following these steps and understanding the significance of the phrase "loose lips sink ships," individuals can help protect sensitive information, maintain operational security, and contribute to the overall success of military operations.

[@NamemaNSl]

In Ukraine, stories about the upcoming offensive supported the morale of the population, hinted that you just need to wait a bit and everything will change.

[@efimrus]

Ахахаха, бабушки точно всё знали и нарисовали. Не забывайте про лучшую разведку РФ.

[@battleshipman56]

Leopard has 0 chance, out ranged, out gunned and out matched in every single category, and lack of LWS makes it dead on arrival, also over 1000mm of pen after tandem

[@vencdee]

Excellent analysis.

[@konstantinatanassov4353]

9:35 - it was certainly a mine, hit when the Leo2 reversed. No Vikhr - hit. The Ka-52 hit a Bradley.

[@Ropetor]

Regarding the Gepard and other air defenses, western air defense provided to Ukraine like Gepard and Stormer both are outranged by the Ka-52 and the old soviet AA systems like Tunguska and OSA they have very little number of them lefts as they have suffered heavy losses. If Ukraine pulls their limited anti air assets to the front to support offensive operations they would be targeted by Russian lancets and artillery since they would have to be with the attacking force, same goes for IRIS-T and similar systems they are limited by number and would have to be placed very close to the frontline which is covered by orlan and other kinds of drones due to the radar horizon since they wouldn't be abled to target helicopters anywhere else. Ukraine would need a lot more anti air systems provided.

[@xaina222]

Which is impossible since the West does not focus on air defences like Russia, the only option is to send F16 which will take heavy and expensive casualties.

[@Ropetor]

@@JK-oq9cl Yes, which is why I mentioned it

[@user-fi8dl1gq4p]

Это не поможет украинским наци.

[@Richwiking318]

​@@user-fi8dl1gq4p soglasen..

[@Arma212112121]

@@xaina222 before that same things said about leopards, no, with such small parties it will not solve the problem, f-16 old planes, also they haven't optic location systems which has Su-37, and R-37 rocket range is better than aim on f-16, so it will not solve anything, only add some time, and add some oil to this conflict, cause you will need to base this planes, but where? If all NATO countries saying that they are "not side of the conflict" )

[@NaturalLanguageLearning]

Would it make sense to have a very small caliber CWIS type thing on top of tanks and aother vehicles as defense against drones and ATGMs? Would that be technically possible?

[@_bigbro]

no, make no sense as it will be vulnerable to fragmentation missiles. just one small piece can damage turret or destroy optical sensor or something else.

[@red-if2xl]

15:50 radars use the Doppler effect to detect targets. that is, the target must move visibly towards or away from the radar. in this video, the helicopter hangs and, moreover, quite low. accordingly, the radar will not show the marks of this helicopter, and in order to notice how it flew up to this position, the radar must be raised above the line of tree tops. only optical/IR systems can detect such targets.

[@williamzk9083]

The whirling rotor blades will provide a very strong Doppler effect. The audio frequency component of the returning signal will also be very high. Furthermore the signature will allow the exact model of helicopter to be identified. Helicopters show up very strongly. This is WW2 technology. Even the German Wurzberg radar when equipped with Wurzlaus (doppler) and Nuremberg(audio frequency of propeller modulations) would detect it. Hovering Helicopters show up very well. If its a 3D or 4D radar as many now are the helicopter wouldn't need to hover of the ground much either.

[@mikeromney4712]

Do the Russian gunships not also use air spotters, or drones that "illuminate" targets on low risk? As a result, the gunship's weapon can be fired from cover without any particular danger from reconnaissance or direct air defense.

[@oldfashionedwrx3574]

This is the future

[@WALTERBROADDUS]

In theory, yes. But the Russians seem to be lacking in drones.

[@yaroboredd]

Krasnopol 152mm guided shell - the only guided artillery shell Russia uses till today - acts exactly like that, using spotter on the ground or Orlan drone (or some other designators) And Krasnopol been like developed from 80s Soviet times, lmao, except Orlan ofc

[@kilianortmann9979]

Not possible, because the Vikhr missiles of the Ka-52 are beamriders. They need to be illuminated by the launch platform, no buddy lasing and no lasing by ground assets.

[@superknightlol]

they can if they use lmur, there hasnt been much of footage but there is like 1 or 2? i believe, its a tv guidance meaning the operator can be behind cover...

[@vladimir0rus]

The Ka-52 also has an LMUR missile which does not require a clear line of sight and has a range of 14.5 km. So only an airborne radar will be able to detect attacking helicopters in such a case.

[@MGZetta]

An airborne radar which Russian SAMs wouldn't allow any in the sky.

[@vladimir0rus]

@@MGZetta it could be groups of patrolling fighter jets with HARM and long-range air-to-air missiles.

[@borghorsa1902]

KA-52 doest exist, it KA-50

[@vladimir0rus]

@@borghorsa1902 two seats version is the Ka-52, not Ka-50 (not produced anymore)

[@Lancetdrone]

LMUR may use only Ka-52M and Mi-28NM

[@allgood6760]

Thanks for this 👍

[@ZOMBIEo07]

I played enough War Thunder to know how unstopable KA helicopters can be in right hands

[@ZOMBIEo07]

@Resterk Yes

[@PaddyPatrone]

Interesting to see here, that the Bradley that gets hit fires something before the hit (likely a tow missile). Great video, keep up the good work!

[@foshizzlfizzl]

By the way, the Ka-52 pilots are saying that the huge sized NATO vehicles are way easier to lock an attack than smaller Soviet size vehicles.

[@universalflamethrower6342]

It is the Hitler effect, built big weighty bulky vehicels wich satesfy ego but are otherwise useless on the Battlefield. If you plan for optimal conditions and you can't change your plans if you encounter an obstacle you are f-ed.

[@shirghazaycowboys3049]

​@@jonathanzentelin2815Okay Ivan, 6 ruble for you

[@foshizzlfizzl]

@@shirghazaycowboys3049do you have any argument or are you just able to troll? I mean how is your living as a bot?

[@rowdy8814]

@@shirghazaycowboys3049 hes right tho, those vehicles suck.

[@williamzk9083]

Sounds like propaganda nonsense. They're bigger but not much bigger.

[@bombheadgames9565]

What does happen if you fire a steel wire into contra rotating rotor blades?

[@jmaldo68]

Great content!

[@mortmortannon6640]

Is the Heli footage proven to be from that exact encounter? It seems a lot of the vehicles in the photos have mine/lower body damage - would there not be a lot more upper armor scorching and destruction if they were pelted by ATGMs? Unless that Heli had not a full loadout.

[@alispeed5095]

New sub here, love the technical focus and zero propaganda thing you have going here. Glad l found you!

[@Neeonet]

ПР - это "Пуск разрешен". Команда дающая понять, что органичений для поражения цели - нет

[@kostasviglas4890]

how do you know all these details and with videos also

[@smashu2]

MANPADS, or Man-Portable Air Defense Systems, are shoulder-fired surface-to-air missiles designed to engage low-flying aircraft. The range of MANPADS can vary depending on the specific model and technology used. However, typical MANPADS have an effective range of around 3 to 6 kilometers (1.9 to 3.7 miles). It's important to note that the effective range of a MANPADS can be influenced by various factors, such as the altitude of the target, the speed of the aircraft, and environmental conditions. Some advanced MANPADS may have extended range capabilities or enhanced target engagement capabilities, but the aforementioned range is a general guideline for most commonly used MANPADS systems. So my analysis is the Elicopter can shoot with is missile from 7 km and MANPADS are ineffective. I also saw a video claiming 1 Ka-52 evade 18 MANPADS with electronic jamming.

[@kungfreddie]

Electronic jamming? Isn't manpads, the ones ua has, usually IR seeking? U use flares to defend against those, not ew. My guess is that those 18 is like the 5 patriot system they claimed they had destroyed, or the 150 Leo 2 .. (ua hadn't received that many of either!) Russia is the mother of lies and propaganda!

[@juryfilatov4520]

not by electronic guidance, but by MANPADS. Almost all MANPADS in the world use thermal guidance. The system of laser turrets of the Vitebsk system destroys the optics of missiles, and they become useless. Systems with radio guidance, such as Buk, S-300, Patriot will be able to bypass this protection. But there is a problem - a radar is required that will give out their position, and the altitude of aviation in this conflict is so low that even the S-400 will be able to detect a target at no more than a range of 30 km, because it has a radar for detecting low-flying targets located on a 15-meter tower. But as soon as Ukraine tries to bring these systems to the forefront, the Russians destroy them.

[@martindione386]

I'm not sure how can they use electronic jammers against MANPADS, since they are IR guided, and IIRC, the Starstreak is laser guided

[@juryfilatov4520]

@@martindione386 they use lasers against MANPADS. Do you remember how there was a big scandal 10 years ago when several civilian airline pilots were blinded from the ground by lasers? After that, pilots began to receive anti-laser goggles. So is the helicopter, with the help of a low-power laser, it destroys the thermal imager matrix. You can see advertisements for such systems at Western arms exhibitions.

[@WALTERBROADDUS]

And how you presume to see in the dark to shoot the thing?

[@Justin-ee3im]

thanks for keeping it realtively "current thing" free, a good video focusing on the facts (as available) and the tactics

[@b.elzebub9252]

Doesn't the Leo 2A6 have a lazerdesignator warning system that can automatically trigger the smoke launchers? It always kinda surprises me how little combatfootage we see of smoke-launchers being deployed.

[@user-tl3br3vo5p]

На Украину были поставлены крайне урезанные Леопарды

[@Ganiscol]

That initial FLIR vision attack on some column doesnt fully match up with the daytime photos of the disabled Bradleys and Leopard. The roadway looks different and the tree line seems to be missing - cant positively be confirmed to be the same location. It may be, but its not confirmed. Whatever that chopper attacked, it could have been a different fight.

[@edwardloomis887]

Two comments: -- The M-1 Abrams (105mm version) conduct-of-fire trainers -- tank simulators for crews -- included Soviet helicopter engagements 30+ years ago. -- This model's counter-rotating rotors and the way they eliminate the need for a tail rotor interests me like Charles Kaman's helicopter designs did.

[@michaelschuenemann3505]

Sooooooooo many Germany Leopards were blown up by Russian "Krasnopol" Munitions - Rockets/Drones and the Mud - they are NOT the NATO Wonder Weapon they said - it was all a Big Hype and on the Battlefield they are Useless - same with the Bradleys and French AMX-10 Tanks ! And some People really believed The Western Propaganda - ha-ha-ha-ha ! Bravo Russia Bravo and Glory to Mother Russia !!!!

[@sir0herrbatka]

I am afraid that cannon maximum range is insufficient.

[@user-cm8xe3yz8g]

@@sir0herrbatka 40 km+-

[@sir0herrbatka]

@@user-cm8xe3yz8g Not in a direct attack mode.

[@williamzk9083]

Anton Flettner

[@TheGranicd]

Ukr lost lot of AD prior to offensive. So not only they didnt have air cover but low on AD. Result can be seen. Also column was engaged from ground. Bradley can be seen firing ATGM before being hit.

[@evilleader1991]

Now we know why Russia went ham in targeting Ukrainian AD months leading to the offensive. Maybe they are not as stupid as portrayed in the media.

[@POK1111111111]

11:45 smoke does not interfere with the laser. Missiles for internal use in Russia, have a sensor on the back of the missile, to determine the laser target designation.

[@auggeealvarado6851]

For those Bradleys and Leopards, are they not supposed to be accompanied(by infantry) or at least carry(with them) stingrays exactly for those situations?

[@drewwilliams5844]

Combined arms tactics have air support to protect ground units. Otherwise ground units can eliminate it by enemy air

[@gustavlicht9620]

Problem is, Ukrainians don't have enough air defenses, so they try without it.

[@MGZetta]

and the enemy has anti-air units to protect their own air assets.

[@struvrim7637]

if you study open data, you can find that there was air support and there was air defense. But the air defense was destroyed by drones, and two support aircraft were destroyed by air defense. also a problem arose due to remote mining. That section of the road had been cleared earlier. Hitting a mine was a surprise, then apparently more mines were scattered around the column, they tried to drive across the field and leave the road and were almost immediately blown up by mines. There is a video of how it happened.... since several drones hung over this column, as soon as the column got stuck, it was fired upon by artillery and then by aircraft. Then another column arrived there, which was also burned according to the same algorithm That is why the tactics of use have changed to a different scheme, when the mraps land the infantry and the infantry goes on their own to storm the trenches under artillery fire, and the tanks try to be as far away as possible, but all the tanks often burn until now (but not as often as at the very beginning) This particular battle was fought by the military who were trained completely from scratch according to NATO standards. Therefore, the Ukrainian command decided that these standards were complete shit and returned to the more or less working tactics that they had

[@demonicsquid7217]

I would hazard a guess that, assuming no one in the column spotted the ordnance heading towards them, that their initial reaction would have been that they hit a mine.

[@jonathonbrooks651]

I'm confused. How is that Russian helicopter able to shoot that shovel so far?! ;-)

[@efimrus]

И ломом, топором и вилами всем может ;-)

[@xafar67]

Can the missiles mentioned, or any other carried by the Ka, be ground lased to target or by a drone equipped with a laser?

[@carlo_infar7034]

No they cant as the vikhr missile guiding principale is different to one Say in helfire its looking back at helicopter to be within laser Beam so it cant be jammed or fuled by countermeasures

[@xafar67]

@@carlo_infar7034 thank you :)

[@DanOneOne]

Don't fight with a major power... Don't think you are stronger than you are and they are weaker than they are... Don't be the smartest guy... Don't take chances and hope for the best... Everything requires a brute force... Do you have it?...

[@williamzk9083]

Russia certainly is brutal but it will loose now that its treachery has been revealed resources will be devoted to its defeat.

[@manuelg8050]

I saw the pictures if the destroyed tanks and the videos of the ka-52 attack in other videos in more detail: they are probably not related (the road seen differs). The tanks in the pictures probably drove into a minefield.

[@williamzk9083]

You can see blow of tracks and deep holes in the ground.