Leopard 50, fails Atlantic crossing part 3

Part 3 of 3 Leopard 50 fails that we experienced during our Atlantic crossing. We handle major navigation equipment, mast and rigging failure. These are issues that you can experience on a Leopard 42 & Leopard 45 as well. In fact, potentially they could happen on a Lagoon catamaran or a Bali catamaran or any yacht. So, if you are planning to go to an upcoming boat show… Especially to see a Leopard catamaran, remember to speak to your yacht broker because most of these are known issues, so we hope this can help you avoid drama and disaster during your ocean crossing.

[@rustie4242]

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. If you keep putting new lines on they’re gonna chafe through, pretty simple and it’s a production boat and yes you would expect them to have all these angles worked out. But you are mistaken if you think Leopard give a fu@k.

[@86config]

Found your channel due to the comment left on Travel Sketch's latest video, seems to be more than a slight commonality. Having said that, have you had her inspected for infusion voids in the hull layup, Travel sketch found a number of R&C boats in the yard requiring remedial work due to infusion voids that potentially signify a serious structural issue with boats from the R&C yard. IIRC the hull numbers of the boats in the yard involved seemed to indicate that a substantial number of hulls may be affected.

[@VivBowden-fo3uk]

All I can say is that I'm PRAYING for all your hassles to be COMPLETELY solved, Melinda and Kevin xx

[@paulgilliland2992]

When manufacturers tell you stuff like oh you’re the first person reporting this or we’ve been building catamarans for years and have never seen this before is so disrespectful to customers. It’s a form of corporate bullying for the sole purpose of dissuading people from speaking up. Or to make them think it’s the complaint fault.

[@William-kl8dp]

This should be cross posted to all the Leopard forums.

[@bigbubba4314]

I guess I’m puzzled. After diagnosing the chaffing that is happening, you continued to use the spinnaker and code zero with the same rigging system? Anyone could tell that the line would not last, yet you continued to use the system, even at night. While the design is certainly awful, your judgement to continue to use the system is also questionable.

[@Steve-qn8gn]

Yeah, I agree it’s like he now just wants to keep complaining. He has completely legitimate gripes and complaints with the build and engineering. This just makes me tune out. Sketch is the same way, they think the more they post the same exact problem the more attention they will get from Leopard.

[@allanburt5059]

Travel Sketch 2.0 - a lot of the same issues in a brand new Catamaran

[@moxiemus788]

Yep. It'll be fine quality control is going to sink the company.

[@Alan-R1971]

Came to say the same about travel sketch. I just binge watched all of their vids. Definitely wouldn't buy a leopard

[@dune_tech]

Shame really. Some of their new boats are pretty good and well built. The higher up in these companies probably never set sail themselves. Warranty for RV and Boats are so important as they essentially experience earth quakes and tsunamis on a daily basis.

[@cliffcrowley3756]

@@dune_tech Leopard is now owned by a private equity group (KKR) who also owns Moorings and Sunsail as well as hundreds of other companies. As with much of the industry, PE has destroyed legacy production quality and traditional customer service in almost every case.

[@dianne.murielrobidoux9008]

So sorry for you. I would suggest you get in contact with the other youtube Travel Sketch they have a lot of issues also with Leppard catamaran. Good luck 😢

[@olitheballer2268]

I hate all of the victim blaming that I see in the comments. “Stop using the sheets”, or “maintain your boat to a better standard.” It’s a bloody brand new sailboat with a sail system AND an engine system that are both not functioning properly! How is the bloke supposed to move without using those systems! He mentions they had over one hundred issues already dealt with post delivery. I personally wish you guys a speedy resolution to your issues and feel awful for the lack of support you’ve received so far from Leopard.

[@kptbillburkett8735]

It's time to take thim to Court . I am so sorry this has happened to you with Leopard. But you are now the 6th Brand New Leopard Boat that has had the same problems. From the Mast to the Separating of the hall to the Boat leaking all over the place. And just plain Poor workmanship. Because of your channel and others who have recorded the same problems with Leopard and there "so called Warranty for the Boat", I Will not be buying a Leopard Boat. I am now looking at Sea wind and the 1370. It is to bad about Leopard. They Used to have a very good name in the boating industry. But Now! There is No way I would buy a Leopard boat or a lagoon boat. Do to there Very poor Crashman ship. So keep the videos coming. They are Very Appreciated. Ok until next time, Aloha from the Big Island of Hawaii! Aloha and cheers 🍻

[@sailing_utopia]

Thank you so-so much for your kind support. Melinda, Jorja and I really appreciate it. Court is definitely an option but we think it is the last option. In the meantime, we have tried what we were told to do in the beginning i.e. handle warranty though their broker guy, though whom we bought the boat. That didn’t work. Then we went directly to the factory. That didn’t work, now I have gone to the Ft Lauderdale Leopard Manager. Let’s wait and see if he has the will and the authority to do the right thing. After that, we would hope viewers to this channel, like you, will help bring some pressure to Travelopia. In the meantime, we know Seawind to be a really good boat, but it is different. It is slightly more of a performance boat. Thanks again. The videos will definitely keep coming. Aloha

[@pred7949]

​@@sailing_utopiacourt is the last option because there is nothing to that will help your excuse of a case. Leopard should take you to court for being ill educated and unprepared sailors. Are you gius seriously too slow to realize how stupid you are making yourself out to be? Jesus Christ Why a bunch of khunts

[@MrJohnBos]

You guys have the patience of Job. You have my sympathies, what is happening to you is unacceptable. Come on Leopard - step up to the plate and take responsibility for your warranty claims.

[@PaulGabow]

yeah... it's a new boat... the leopard has slipped to the level of the mass market. it is sad. thanks for the info.

[@Bigfish300]

Watch the videos made on KZbin by Travel Scetch about their warranty issues with Leopard catamarans and Robertson and Cain that has been going on for years now. Leaking windows, leaking hatches AND a rattling mast with broken instruments just as yourself.!. Turns out the mast had to be replaced due to holes drilled through the conduit and your communication cables by their mast installer in Cape Town. Same salesteam same names all over again !!! Get in contact with them on their website and they are currently in Trinidat hauled out with warranty repairs. You might just shorten your pain period with Leopards warranties by YEARS

[@robertreidmd]

Thank you for sharing. I am shopping to buy in 12-24 months. Removing Leopard for candidates. I hope you get things sorted out.

[@sailing_utopia]

Hello Robert, thank for your comment. We are learning a lot about the Leopard-Factory-Leopard issues. The way contracts are set up are a big part of the problem. The factory is a huge part of the problem Leopard want to do the right thing but sometimes just can’t bring themselves to take that correct step over the line. At the end of the day, we think that we bought our boat from Leopard/Travelopia and if a warranty issue is valid, Leopard/Travelopia should support it. We are hoping maybe planning that we might reach Travelopia management and encourage them to setup properly, for future owners. So, watch this space In the meantime, thanks for your support

[@kodiak7]

So after watching a bunch of KZbin sailors I’ve learnt to avoid Lagoon, and now adding Leopard to the list.

[@jorgenvanseters-dz2nm]

Note the larger Lagoons are built in a different factory, BNE. My 52 S is a great ship, none of the terrible issues Sailing Utopia is experiencing. I feel for you guys! Don’t give up.

[@jlb9074]

Like you, I had ruled out lagoon - not just for the bulkhead failures, but also for the way they treated the people who had issues. I was down to FP and Leopard. Ended up going with FP. Kind of happy now. But to be fair, I’m in the middle of a transatlantic with my new FP, and let’s just say it hasn’t been smooth sailing with the FP either. I think all production cats suck right now. I wouldn’t do it again.

[@user-lr4zk1to8u]

You have my sympathy. What a shocking company. They have behaved intolerably. You must spread this message far and wide. I was considering a Leopard but having heard of this despicable behaviour I wouldn’t touch them with a barge pole!

[@Jonas-hz3nd]

Several customers seem to have similar issues with Leopard. I hope you guys get this fixes ASAP ⛵

[@paulsmith-zh7pf]

i've recently purchased a 2022 leopard 50 & spent 6 mths sailing her from florida to my home port of nelsons bay in nsw australia. other than the usual maintenance issues i had no problems, its a great boat, before i got this one i had a 2013 leopard 46 which i sailed all over the pacific with no major issues, either you have been very very unlucky & have a lemon or you need to learn how to sail it properly & pay more attention to maintenance of your boat,

[@mwalden3265]

Sad day in humankind when greed and money takes preferance over the safety and security of people sailing the oceans. No conscience, no accountability for quality of workmanship, equipment etc, nor the loss of life. So sad for you Kevin and Melinda and can only pray tgaf God gives you all safe passage.

[@MEdGrant]

Is what happens when these “investment” (money funds) purchase manufacturers when they perceive there are profits to be made. No conscience, only “money”.

[@paulrodrigues5562]

Wow, and we were about to enquire about a leopard 45 for our retirement plans !

[@sailing_utopia]

Hello there, I urge you to exercise caution. As a side note, while Leopard boasts a good layout, it also carries significant liability. It's essentially a slow boat, cruising at around 7 knots. This was a deliberate choice on our part, though I must admit, I'm growing increasingly frustrated with its lacklustre performance. With over 35 years of managerial experience and involvement in company structures and processes, I've come to understand the root issue with Leopard's warranty system. The problem lies in how the contracts are structured with the factory. Travelopia has arranged the contracts in a way that attempts to circumvent dealing with customer warranties altogether, shifting the responsibility onto the factory. This approach is fundamentally flawed. Your retailer should be the primary point of contact for warranty matters. That’s the tried and tested method. But someone at Travelopia (who really needs to be fired), thought that they were clever and in their infinite wisdom saw fit to set it up this way, hoping to just walk away after the sale Given that the factory is situated in Africa and declines direct communication with owners, it's all too easy for them to simply dismiss warranty claims for any number of reasons. Leopard then merely relays the message that the "factory rejected the claim," also washing their hands of the matter. So customer is left high and dry. That doesn’t even happen on a $40k Toyota While I may be mistaken, it seems to me that, at their core, Leopard desire briefly to do right by their customers but struggles to take the necessary actions. They recognize the factory's lack of integrity but are hesitant to bear the burden themselves, leaving the customer to suffer the consequences. Ultimately, we purchased our boat from Leopard/Travelopia, and if a warranty issue is legitimate, clearly they should stand behind it. We are hopeful-perhaps even planning-to escalate this matter to Travelopia management and advocate for a proper restructuring to benefit future owners. Your input, along with others', may just spur Travelopia management to take the required steps. So, stay tuned. In the meantime, Melinda, Jorja and I appreciate your support.

[@paulrodrigues5562]

@sailing_utopia Thank you. Didn't know it was this complex Call me old school but no factory should release a boat with all those issues in first place. The retailer/ fabricator relationship is not client problem, a product either works or it doesn't. If it doesn't, the o es who took my money better sort their value chain or re impulse incl losses incurred.

[@pred7949]

​@@sailing_utopia keep up this petty foolish fragility old timer, you are only making yourself look silly as fuhk, i could tell on that barefoot doctors episode you are khunt obsessed with image and seeing how karma is catching up to you is bringing us so much joy.

[@TheBeer4me]

With all boats new or old you will have problems. If you look around any boat you will see different manufacturers that boat builders use and guess what your warranty’s will be with the individual systems In most cases. Good video keep fixing!

[@Bundy714]

That grease line from the grill just gets me......at least they labeled it. SMH

[@user-df5zq9up3t]

This is only my opion. Tome the sheet line at the cabin top were it goes throug the block should run horizontal as much as possible to the tack of the sail. By forcing the rope to go down to the deckblock creats your problems. I would have a 2nd line baraa haul to the stern of the boat. This shiuld solve the problems in regards to in regard to the sheets.

[@en8581]

Sorry to hear all about these issues- very sad! Regarding two videos ago, have you found out if the problem was with the Balmar alternators (seems weird for two to be defective)? Or the way the WS500 regulators were installed/programmed? Or something else? Hopefully others can learn from your experience if you let us know what went wrong. Thanks!

[@sv_dandelion]

Sorry for the issues you are dealing with and that Leopard is only taking a bad situation and making it worse. Appreciate this video and the others. Even though the leopard boats tick every single box on our wish list, we will be steering clear of the brand based on the experiences you are having and others (travel sketch) have had. Have you gone out and looked for some of the other issues that other leopards have? Windows, voids in the fiberglass? Best to seek out problems than wait for them to find out at the worst of time.

[@Lighthouse6b]

I had a larger and heavier sail boat. Over the time that I had it, I had replaced all the blocks with plastic sheaves with alloy sheaves. And replaced them and eliminated chafe. The original blocks were not strong enough for loads on a 64 foot boat.

[@cliffcrowley3756]

These videos are shocking. Completely changes my view on Leopard. Puts them in Lagoon category. The after purchase service is as bad as the productin quality. I bet you will start getting more satisfaction from them as your views increase. Although not sure why you repeated the sheet chafing experiments expecting a different outcome :)

[@yachticus]

What is the cost of these big beautiful Leopard 50"s - last time I looked around US$1.4oom+ - and the sales goons @ Leopard don't get the fact that the tribal drums of sailing ring out far and wide. I'm really grateful for your commentary and persistence. The engineers building your yacht will be having kittens.

[@robertpomeroy9016]

Thanks for sharing. Seems like you spent a lot of $ for a lot of problems. It seems that these very expensive cats have a raft of issues. I have seen other posts which detail structural issues. Leopard likely doesn't get many reports of your issues because of their owners (suckers?) only sail in mild weather out of the blue.

[@jimdiamond8246]

I have been watching all the boats that are well known companies and have massive problems with their boats .leopard belong to KKR investments and are worth over 3 hundred billion dollars .lots of leopard owners are having the same problem . I hope you can get some closure soon .

[@geofferyrobertson6608]

GEEZ !!!!! you would want anymore issues ... you should get a 5-10 yr warrantee after spending that sort of money one pays to buy their dream ... SHOCKING

[@geotouring5959]

Oh my goodness leopard just offered a deal on new 50 but this is not good watching. I might just stay with my Leopard 48

[@geofferyrobertson6608]

give them the boat back and get a full refund + interest. ..... that's what should have happened

[@berndog3]

After having seen all the problems with the French "production" cats, I thought that the R&C Leopards would be a better choice. Now, having seen these videos, I wouldn't trust R&C to deliver a quality vessel. Looking elsewhere - HH, Xquisite, Portofino, Kinetic, Prestige (maybe), Balance, Knysna, Seawind, Windelo - and some others. As with all products, paying a little more for good quality is money well spent.

[@kathytegreene1562]

We have a St. Francis SF50 and love it. Great build quality. Great customer support.

[@Nico101.....]

With all the problems with this boat can only come from Leopard. They must know about it!!!

[@sonatine23]

there has to be a class action in there somewhere

[@simonmoody2649]

Another case for extencive sea trials , don't trust big boat building companies

[@svthorasailing4868]

A 3/4 quarter million dollar Maquis vessel is no joke to purchase,maybe better to sail up to the US and do the repairs yourself and totally wash your hands of the company or alternatively turn around and sail that piece of equipment back to where you bought it for a refund.

[@ignitemusic3430]

😮

[@marktaylor484]

Unfortunately an all too familiar experience, from an industry that seems to play by its own rules'. Fair wind's.

[@sailing_utopia]

Thanks for your support Mark. Stay with us mate . . . some interesting stuff to come.

[@KeepItSimpleSailor]

I’m guessing these cats are expensive little kittens. So, you would expect top levels of quality. But by all reports that quality simply isn’t there. Leopard aren’t doing their brand any good …. nor future income.

[@paulstephens5229]

So another video about just how crap the leopard yacht build is. You’re the third serious failure I’ve come across and I’m not even a yachty person. I wouldn’t touch leopard in its current format with a very long barge pole.

[@cliffcrowley3756]

Unfortunately you bought a boat from KKR beancounter finance guys just out of college. Not boat builders. KKR - Leopards also own Sunsail and Moorings and are building to a price point to supply them with charter boats with the intention of selling them off in 3-5 years after being beat to hell in the charter business. They have ROI computer models telling them what to do and how to buy component parts. Not boat builders. You are talking to computer geeks.

[@bigbubba4314]

Does South African law provide for Class Action lawsuits? Where an entire group of individuals with similar claims can be combined int o single lawsuit?

[@Bigfish300]

YES, they do

[@GlosterSA]

@@Bigfish300 Class Action lawsuits will not cut the cheese in South Africa as here it all is about the amount of Money you can feed Corrupt officials to make the matter go away. The only way is to get all the standards organizations involved who are underwriting the Build quality of the Boats so that they can be produced and exported to other Countries by suspending the standards certification only then will build quality improve and warranty issues be fully resolved as the standards organizations are impartial and bound by the countries issuing the licenses for qualification to Import the vessels. A small example of the impact this will have is if NMMA which certifies these boats to be imported into America is revoked none of these vessels can enter America for resale or for sale no matter who the Vessel Broker is so no Leopard Catamaran will be able to shown at a boat show in any US City or affiliated port thus halting sales of Leopard to the USA due to USA Consumer protective policy. Only once all the Issues and build quality has been brought back up to standard can reinstatement of the license occur. This is the only way to force big companies to abide by quality standards and look after the warranty issues. Both Leopard and Robertson and Cain claim the NMMA standards. R&C have a lot of other standards they are claiming. This is why Motor manufacturers are so quick to recall vehicles for warranty claims and fault rectification due to the possibility of having their Standards suspended and production halted.

[@larrymeyer2917]

A couple of observations. I can assure you the GPS shutdown is because of too many, mostly more than 1 powering up of the NMEA backbone. Its happened with many brands and its not the instruments, its the install that has not been done properly. I’ve never seen such poor mast wiring, disgusting. You should have top to bottom conduit or expect problems to arise into the future. The biggest issue with Leopard is the Warranty, and this has occurred in the past decade. Never an issue when Scott ran global sales and delivered every boat on its bottom. The boats were close to perfect at that time and none of the deliberate warranty rejection. As an experienced businessman, you know what to do, don’t waste time, initiate the obvious. View SV Sunrise, Aussie L50 that had huge warranty issue until they made a KZbin video.

[@normanboyes4983]

I take it your mast was assembled by the same incompetents that wrecked Travel Sketch.

[@sailing_utopia]

100% African factory. Thanks for your comment

[@easypeasy9603]

Yes the line angles are wrong and Leopard seems to be one hell of a company. But can someone tell me why this hobby sailor does not put an elongation rope to the deck block and have both his angle problems solved within 60 seconds?

[@sailing_utopia]

Hi, thanks for your reply. It turns out as a temporary measure; we could have moved the deck block back to the cleat that is further aft. In future videos you will see better perspective of the issues. In the meantime, thanks for your support

[@justwayne4785]

What gives you the impression leopard is one hell of a company 😂 I have a feeling you are one of the leopard shills who trolls customers who complain about build quality.

[@MakaiMauka]

File down the sharp edge

[@sailing_utopia]

Hi, thanks for your reply. It turns out as a temporary measure; we could have moved the deck block back to the cleat that is further aft. Your solution definitely would have slowed down the rate of chafe ! In future videos you will see better perspective of the issues. In the meantime, thanks for your support

[@johnharris2337]

Watch the recent Parley Revival with the bow deck ripping off, shocking construction.

[@robdurie5141]

parley is a lagoon 45 and there problem was brocken bulkheads

[@nooneanybodyknows7912]

Yeah, that was crazy Deck only glued to the hull pulled apart by the spinnaker in 12 knots of wind. No fiberglass holding the two together, leaving a gaping hole in the forepeak. Colin has repaired it, and it's better than Lagoon from the factory. The Jamie 465 is a blue water sailor circumnavigating New Zealand. 🇳🇿

[@jcoghill2]

Poor workmanship.

[@jlb473]

Speaking of Lagoon they will always assist you if not warented to tell you what to do, and they are also very intersted of user return information

[@beesteady1774]

Absolutely ridiculous. You must have recourse. Spread this far and wide, life threatening issues, NO BACKUP. These are life threatening issues, other owners and prospective owners should be made aware!!

[@juergenzenner4219]

Let see how long it needs to be that leopard force you both in a non disclosure contract….. and shut your KZbin channel down…..

[@alltheworld2820]

as a temporary solution you can put stripes of teflon 2mm or 3mm below the blocks.

[@faircompetition1203]

TERRIBLE build quality .At least the boat was not expensive - right ? Sarcasm .

[@carlnelson4413]

Is this the first large cruising boat you’ve owned? I’ve owned six. My Leopard 50 has been the most reliable of them all. Big cruising boats require constant repairs and maintenance. In most cases it’s easiest to get it fixed and forget about warranty hassles on inexpensive repairs. It’s a $1M boat that’s costing at least $100,000 (US) a year to operate. If you can’t afford it, big cruising cats aren’t for you. And most of your complaints are not warranty items anyways. As to the items on this video: 1) You’ll have chafe on any Atlantic crossing. Carry lots of spare line. I expect you had problems because you are flying the Code 0 in too high a wind and rough seas. They are a sail for light conditions and should be furled when apparent wind goes above 10kts or seas are above 1M. The broken strand on the bowsprit is also likely caused by using the Code 0 at too high wind speeds. Why didn't you spot and adjust that block angle during shake down trips before setting out to cross the Atlantic?. It would take a hour and less than $100 to address. You spent more time on the KZbin video of it than it would have taken to fix. Mid Atlantic is no place to notice this stuff. 2) A FLIR is a mistake on an 50ft ocean cat. They are only useful in harbors, they break down, the extra cable up the mast can damage the conduit, and they are silly expensive. Powerboat people like them as toys. 3) Raymarine gear has always had weird glitches. The software and networking is just not very good. Most problems can be traced to a network or power cable that is corroded or come a little loose. In 30 years of owning cruising boats I’ve never had one where wind vane steering was reliable (I’ve had both Garmin and Raymarine). I assume you updated all of the Raymarine stuff before setting off on the crossing? (Although sometimes new Raymarine updates make things worse). I always use a compass course in the autopilot but even that went screwy after three months on the hard in my Raymarine when it forgot its programming and put the wheel hard to starboard. Raymarine telephone support walked me through reprogramming it. It took only 10 minutes but he didn’t seem surprised. Sounded like he got calls every day on it. Getting a warranty replacement isn’t going to change that. If this sort of routine maintenance leaves you so upset and unhappy, you really aren’t going to enjoy owning a large cruising cat - any brand. Life is short. Maybe sell it and buy an RV.

[@br5927]

raymarine is crap

[@jahf1sh]

You guys have no business in the ocean.

[@user-df5zq9up3t]

Thats are a very hard and unfair commment. What would you do in their position

[@garyconway1073]

I do not watch poontoon boats, Get a real mono hull, stay safe