Less Lethal launchers - what I dislike the most!

[@AlternateArmsSD]

Hey Brother! I agree with a lot of what you are saying. However, change and innovation is exactly what we need. One thing I've found in all of my time doing this is that a huge amount of this industry is highly incestuous. They all know each other and in fact a TON of them have worked together throughout the years. I like the fact that they are spring boarding their own ideas and innovations and are giving us variety and choice. There is no such thing as "too many options" in ltl. As far as power.. You are correct. We do have a small community of folks that do seem to be hell bent on making a less than lethal launcher lethal. This is VERY dangerous.. It takes ONE person to copy what they are doing and killing someone with one to send us on a ROCKET SLED to regulation. In my experience, using a high quality pepperball, 7.5J - 25J is the sweet spot. (The higher the better for obvious round rupture reasons). For kinetic defense, the higher the better. 20-30J is enough to change a persons attitude quickly. That being said..... I may have a game changer coming up..... I have a guy flying here to meet with me next week that I met at ShowShow and this one has me excited! Weve wanted a REAL "game changer" for quite a while and this could be it! (I WISH I could say more but... you know.... can't tell yet) ;)

[@ScaredyCatTactical]

Thanks for the info. I have definitely encountered these types in FB groups. They are very loyal or disloyal to previous employers and will trash or praise launchers and speak a weird “inside baseball” language that no one else can follow. They want everyone to know how much of an expert they are on the history of a launcher or valve system. Thanks for what you are doing. It does help to see many launcher options, even if most are very derivative of others. It is just my pet peeve so I had to let it out. Constructive criticism is what the field needs more of.

[@AlternateArmsSD]

@@ScaredyCatTactical I couldnt agree more. That type of conversation with them forces them to improve and give us even better options. This is going to be a GREAT year!

[@glennsammon4465]

Mercury Rise MUB 43 had some promise to it. it was a 43 cal gun and had some power to it . but it was small and light, very compact. but, it only held four shots. I have since contacted the company and said move the CO2 unit back and relocate the magazine to the grip and probably get one or two shots more. since it was small and compact it would have been perfect to carry. and that is really what people are looking for. and it would have given them a nice option for self defense and likely would have been on them when they needed it. well, of course it is no longer available. so now we have bigger bulky options that though are nice, are too big and bulky for the average person to carry. defeating the whole purpose of having this for self protection.

[@ScaredyCatTactical]

Well said. There is a need there that’s not been met perfectly. The Grimburg Gavle comes the closest so far imo but it’s not mag-fed and I’m hoping the Solstice hits the mark. We’ll have to wait and see.

[@LessLethalOptions-82323]

I am sure Byrna could up the average power of the LE, by letting in a little more co2, at the expense of shot count. Only "enthusiast", however, don't care about shot count, and do care about more power. A Ma and PA company such as Grimburg, can "possibly" make it serving the tiny "Enthusiast" market, but that market is seen as microscopic to the larger players. I think Byrna is going to go with smaller and more concealable in their next release. They are selling the pepper ball and not pain compliance.

[@ScaredyCatTactical]

Agreed. Those 2 companies are very different in their goals. Grimburg can easily make even more powerful launchers but they don’t want to. The >40 Joules niche is way too small and has many negatives like I talked about here.

[@CONCRETECOWBOY88]

Good points, sadly most people just think new gimmicks are better, or will improve their abilities, they rather put more money into these new things instead of the time of learning how to maintain and also training with what they have , maybe when they first get one they will put the time in shooting it but not really training in the situations they may come up against.

[@ScaredyCatTactical]

Gimmicky is the key word. You nailed it. Too many people want fast and easy and fall for salesmen.

[@Joreel]

While I agree with 99% of what you said in the video, I do have to ask... Do you see it as an issue when companies released more powerful versions of their technology, like Byrna sells the SD but then created the LE as a more powerful version of the SD to sell to the "must have more power" groups. Or Umarex selling two versions of their HDX but now their releasing a new more powerful HDX that will be 36-40 Joules. What do you feel is the sweet spot for power vs useability.

[@ScaredyCatTactical]

Good questions. With Byrna as a small company, I think they genuinely thought the LE was more powerful by having it factory tuned higher for the first shot. But the FPS rapidly dropped on subsequent shots. So, I don't think the LE is really overall on the average across all shots any more powerful than the SD. However, the valve is different so maybe time will tell and they'll tweak the tuning to get a better overall output just like we do with our FSCs and TCPs. The fact that it's not tunable by the user tells me that they don't want mods or higher power. With Umarex, they are an already well established company that is trying to capitalize on the USA power hungry crowd. It's good business for them. Every company has different goals. I think 40 Joules is the sweet spot and I wouldn't expect any mainstream Less Lethal company to exceed that intentionally.

[@Joreel]

​@@ScaredyCatTacticalThanks for responding 😋

[@Sola_Scriptura_1.618]

​@ScaredyCatTactical I agree but I also believe that the limiting factor on these Markers is the CO2 itself! CO2 is limited in capacity (8,12,16,90 gram) and pressure 850-900 psi. What Umarex, First Strike and Pepperbal to some extent have taped into the mod community. These mods open up a new branch of customers, these mod channels are promoting these brands and bringing awareness to these brands.

[@themartialartway]

Which is true