Lesser Known Views in Christian Eschatology

[@joszsz]

Full Preterist feels unreal; I struggle to imagine how a Christian would see this present chaotic world as the new heaven and earth

[@clippyclip2229]

I imagine a full preterist would say something like "The world could be so much worse."

[@joszsz]

@@clippyclip2229 😂 it won't be surprising

[@Lorrainecats]

Absolutely! This world is a mess, and becoming messier.

[@TurtleMarcus]

Many Full Preterists view the New Heaven & Earth as a purely spiritual reality. It is, essentially, just Heaven which the soul experiences after death, but with no future resurrection. This post-Second Coming chaotic world is, then, just an "angel-making machine" preparing people for the afterlife. Still unreal though.

[@joszsz]

@@TurtleMarcus Oh, interesting... The "no resurrection" would be one huge red flag, and while I actually like some parts of the "angel making machine" idea, I think it would fall short too, because it indicates an endless cycle of evil prevailing from time to time, and it undermines God's desire for it to end.

[@DavidWesley]

Although I find eschatology intellectually interesting, the amount of time and attention given to it is at the expense of what the church is actually called to do. Preach the gospel, make (develop to maturity) disciples, and show radical love to the world around us. We should be ready for Christ to return tomorrow AND to make long term plans within this world. As we wait for Christ’s return, we should look at the commands to Israel’s exiles in Babylon. Pray for and work for the prosperity of the land where you are planted.

[@gregb6469]

Yeah, but that won't make you a best-selling author and get you invites to popular Christian TV talk shows.

[@Meop79]

People can do multiple things at the same time and wanting to understand the Bible is not wrong, even if some approaches to it.... are.

[@davidhowell1424]

This is exactly the view of much of Inaugurated Eschatology, in particular, the portion of this group that is influenced by George Eldon Ladd. This viewpoint believes that the primary role of the church is to increase the Kingdom of God through preaching the good news, making disciples, and showing radical love to the world around us. The Vineyard Movement, in particular, uses this viewpoint of the Kingdom of God as one of its central teachings.

[@donalddodson7365]

That's it! At last, I can claim a label among my arguing angry Christian brothers: "Panmillennial!" Joshua, thank you, again, for laying out these rather speculative and (I suspect) human concocted schemes. I have space for that chart when it is ready. 🤗 Blessings, Don Dodson

[@ReadyToHarvest]

Thanks Don, I hope to get this chart available in the not-to-distant future. I didn't find the need to make any corrections (so far!)

[@ItzNybbles]

@@ReadyToHarvest checking back in on the chart, I am sure you are hard at work so no rush! Just wanted to see if it was available anywhere yet

[@ReadyToHarvest]

@@ItzNybbles Here You go, Daniel! readytoharvest.com/christian-eschatology-chart/

[@ItzNybbles]

Awesome! Thanks so much!

[@joshmccrarey]

Woking on my M.Div .and I still watch your videos as supplemental sources. These are very well done, and I appreciate you and your teams efforts in putting this stuff together.

[@ReadyToHarvest]

Thank you Josh!

[@paulgering7703]

I had a deep fear of this kind of stuff as a kid. I grew up A of G and was told that I would not be able to grow up because my peers believed this needs to happen now. Now, I just don’t worry about it. I would describe myself as a “kinda preterist”, but in the end, I choose not to put much thought into it because there doesn’t seem to be a clear-cut answer to this conundrum. Just live your life every day until it ends, one way or the other.

[@SelectCircle]

I never cared a whit about all this mass confusion - until suddenly as an old man I began wondering who has the best idea. And ... I kinda wish I'd let the matter rest!

[@Rambling-Thomas]

I wrote the pan millennial joke in the comments mid video, and then I found you actually cover it. Your level of detail in these videos is amazing 👏

[@MichaelRabbitBass3]

A fallible Jesus seems an alien concept to me.

[@Cjinglaterra]

It’s not compatible with the core tenets of the Christian faith, so…

[@soarel325]

Schweitzer and those who share his views also don’t believe Jesus was divine, they’re not Christians in any traditional sense. On Schweitzer himself, though, he remained a practicing Lutheran minister for the rest of his life despite his views, which is a little interesting. As far as I can tell, he was a little bit like John Shelby Spong, viewing Christianity as a “noble lie” (though in his case, for historical rather than scientistic reasons). His theological interest was in an entirely metaphorical “living Christ” that exists only in the minds of believers. I don’t believe he was an atheist like Spong though, I think he believed in God but didn’t regard Jesus as genuinely God.

[@andresmartinezramos7513]

It appears really plausible to me Admittedly, I'm not a Christian so that might explain it. If someone were to propose this to anyone with a modicum of biblical orthodoxy they would be faced with ridicule, mockery and possibly a charge of heresy.

[@soarel325]

@@andresmartinezramos7513 It's pretty much the only conclusion non-Christians can have, if you don't think Jesus was God (and thus just a human) of course he'd be fallible since all humans are

[@lynnpayne6262]

I like it. For me it makes Jesus relatable.

[@CarnivoreYoghurt]

I must say that amillennial futurism is what I encountered most often in the Catholic Church. I am quite convinced that this is how you could summarize the teaching of the Catechism. The Church age is the symbolic Millennium with ups and downs, but at the end will come the period of final tribulation, although perhaps not literally reflecting the Revelation. And then the Second Coming of course.

[@mattpease536]

As always, your videos are well-researched, thorough and as "in their own words" as one could ask for. These two videos really help to break down a very complex matter in a way that doesn't make people's heads explode. I would suggest doing a similar video that compares different views on soteriology, in a similar way (Calvinism, including "hyper Calvinism", infralapsarianism, supralapsarian, arminianism, Wesleyan arminianism, semi-pelagianism, Pelagianism, Lutheranism, thomism, molinism and those also of eastern Orthodoxy).

[@loonaden9519]

Your videos on eschatology are very informative. May I request if you can make another that summarizes the eschatological views of the Church Fathers (patristic era)? Then, if possible, the eschatological views of the first ecumenical councils, and the major theologians during that age.

[@moniquewrites9046]

Bro. You are such a blessing! Thanks for your research and professionalism.

[@woody1320]

Very difficult, confusing but interesting topic.

[@kieferonline]

Excellent lecture here. The research is thorough and convincing, while the presentation is well-organized and articulated. The books shown on screen prove that I have a lot to read if I am to understand this topic. Your video is an excellent introduction and mapping out of the landscape. Thank you!

[@rparl]

When the disciples asked when these things wo happen and he would return to restore the kingdom, Jesus replied that only God the Father knew, no one else knew, even the Son. So it's consistent to say that Jesus didn't know when The Day of the Lord would come.

[@ellenstar1155]

He did said within that generation aka 40 years

[@emsdiy6857]

THANK YOU FOR YOUR WORK ❤😊GOD BLESS

[@kensanders7558]

outstanding research and presentation

[@jomaka]

This dude is amazing.

[@Thelaretus]

5:47 Congratulations on explaining that with a straight face. 😂 Interesting! This is a great video. This type of theoretical classification doesn't really happen inside the Catholic Church, because alarmism and panic are adversarial to sanctification, and we just pay heed to the import dogmata and trust in God about the rest; but, now that curiosity has brought me here it seems that a whole spectrum from Amillennial Praeterism to Postmillennial Historicism could be considered orthodox. I myself seem to be radically amillennialist, but torn between Praeterism and Idealism. I'll watch part two.

[@JDsVarietyChannel]

So thorough you even mentioned panmillenialism. Haha. I have heard that joke before.

[@jameswhitley4101]

It is, after all, the most accurate millennial view. The least precise, but technically not false.

[@davidsandrock7826]

It will pan out exactly the way God wants it to.

[@whistlepig64]

Ready to Harvest is made possible by People Like You Thank You

[@amp9oe445]

I thought you were PBS for a moment

[@pixieburton3131]

I can’t wait! I am so glad you made it Tuesday and not Wednesday!!!!!

[@KnoxEmDown]

The majority of these views seem to be overwhelmingly protestant in influence. Would you mind creating a video or two discussing the official/traditional views of ancient churches such as the Orthodox, Catholic, Oriental etcetera on the matter? Edit: Thank you for making more videos on the churches I mentioned these past two weeks!

[@Thelaretus]

Interesting! This is a great video. This type of theoretical classification doesn't really happen inside the Catholic Church, because alarmism and panic are adversarial to sanctification, and we just pay heed to the import dogmata and trust in God about the rest; but, now that curiosity has brought me here it seems that a whole spectrum from Amillennial Praeterism to Postmillennial Historicism could be considered orthodox. I myself seem to be radically amillennialist, but torn between Praeterism and Idealism. I'll watch part two.

[@MountainFisher]

Daniel spoke to the 70 weeks given to Israel and doesn't separate the 70th from the 69 with no Biblical precedent. 70th week was fulfilled by Christ Who put and end to sacrifice and offerings with His death and Resurrection and the desolation of Jerusalem was determined by Him when He said, 'I leave your house desolate'. The second half was fulfilled by the Apostles' ministry to Israel. What part of Daniel goes past the end of the Old Testament Age except the Ancient of Days Prophesy when Christ goes up to the Father? I used to be a Dispensationalist until it just didn't make sense to me.

[@michaelseay9783]

Same here. I just kept believing what I was taught until I finally put past teachings out of my mind and then re-read the passages. This opened up a completely different world regarding scripture.

[@thenowchurch6419]

Great work! This is invaluable.

[@jackcrow1204]

Very well informed Thank you for your work

[@wendellplett2852]

Panmellenist is what Gary DeMar author called his parents view . ‘Last days Madness’ author!!!

[@yoshkebenstadapandora1181]

More videos on this topic please

[@MichaelRabbitBass3]

Wild to think people think the second coming happened already

[@fluentreasoningchannel5778]

Wild to think that people today think that they have to wait? First define “second coming.” Please cite chapter and verse for where you find “second coming.” I believe that you are instead referring to Hebrews 9:28. There are three different and distinct Greek words for “appear.” By way of contrast see Hebrews 9:24, 9:26 and 9:28. In 9:24 Christ appears [emphanizo] on our behalf before God. In 9:26 our High Priest appears [phaneroo] “once for all” at the end of the age, to put away sin. In 9:28 our Lord appears [optanomi] a second time, to those who wait for salvation. “appear” in Hebrews 9:28 [Greek “optanomai”] is similarly used in 1 Corinthians 15:5-8, where Jesus distinctly appears “a second time,” or expressly to those our Lord [optanomai] “appears” to a first time. This is a physical appearance. Uniquely, Jesus appears “a second time” [optanomi] to those born under the law, that must “wait” for him. Will Jesus appear “a second time” for someone to whom he never appears [optanomai] a first time? Do we wait “a little longer, until the full number of our brothers and sisters are killed, just as we have been killed”? [Revelation 6:10-12]. Cf. Isaiah 11:11. “appear” in Hebrews 9:26 [Greek “phaneroo”] is similarly used in 1 John 3:2, where the witnesses don’t even know “what we will be,” when Jesus distinctly “appears” [phaneroo] for them “at the end of the age.” This is a spiritual appearance. Please note the distinction between end of the age or Greek aion and end of the world or Greek kosmos. Only mistranslated English bibles describe a non biblical end of the world. That is, instead, we read about the end of the old covenant age (aion) or AD70, which was “near,” “soon” and Greek mello, or “about to be.”

[@jameswhitley4101]

@@fluentreasoningchannel5778 But what about the bodily resurrection? Daniel 12:13, 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17, and1 Corinthains 15 speak explicitly of a bodily resurrection of those who are dead that happens when Jesus comes back. But the dead have not yet been raised bodily. If your argument is correct, how can we reconcile what Scripture says to your conclusions?

[@fluentreasoningchannel5778]

@@jameswhitley4101 Please distinguish between the first and second resurrections… as delineated in Revelation 20:5, 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16 and 1 Corinthians 15:23. See the clear text presented in 1 Thessalonians 2:15-16 to confirm precisely who is judged and experienced God’s wrath. Daniel indeed experienced a bodily resurrection on Easter. We see the first resurrection fulfilled at Matthew 27:52 “and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life.” Compare the bodily resurrection described in Matthew 27:52 to 1 John 3:2 “Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.” Those dogmatic about a future bodily resurrection have revelation beyond the witnesses. That is, if they don’t know “what we will be”…. how could you? Interestingly, you mention Daniel 12, which provides a clear TimeText for the resurrection as described in verse 12:2, which occurs in AD70. See Daniel 12:7 “When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed.” See also the clear reaction of Felix in Acts 24, when he is informed about the resurrection (verse 15) and the judgement (verse 25) that are “about to be,” or in Greek “mello.” That is, Felix becomes afraid and wants to end the discussion because of events to occur thousands of years later? Really?

[@tonyauxier5411]

I agree with you, but understand their position. J Stuart Russell wrote"The Parousia" after being confronted with atheists pointing to the claim in the Gospels that all of these things must happen within a generation (in the mini apocalypse passages). I disagree with him, but appreciate his attempt to give a thoughtful response to this critcism. It is a very interesting read.

[@fluentreasoningchannel5778]

@@tonyauxier5411 amen! Romans 3:4 “Let God be true, and every man a liar.”

[@bigrich6750]

Great job distinguishing Full from Partial Preterism. They truly are “radically,” different. There is no future return of Christ in FP. I tend to be a Postmill, Partial Preterist but would not claim dogmatism on any point. Psalm 110:1, “…sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool…,” the most quoted OT verse in the NT, seems to indicate that God is defeating the enemies of Christ as we speak. It certainly doesn’t seem that way when we look at the news, but any look at history tells us that things have been much worse in the past, and to those who say that things are not getting better, I ask, would you rather live now or 1000 years ago without clean running water and flush toilets?

[@chrisjohnson9542]

The GK Bealle Revelation Commentary is one of the best you can find. I highly recommend it to people wanting to understand Revelation. Another book is Triunph of the Lamb by Dennis Johnson.

[@raptor4916]

I know you need a new video idea like you need another hole in the head, but an interesting topic as say a 4th of July special would be how did the Anglican Church in the Colonies navigate the American Revolution, or even if there's time a broader overview of the history of various churches in America during the time of the Founding. Thanks and God Bless.

[@clintonstephens273]

Good videos! I watched the first one also. Glad to know that the grace of God is bog enough to save us even if we do not have our eschatology 100 percent correct. With that being said “I will still give my postmill and amill etc brothers a high five when we are all snatched up.” Might even give em a high five while we are doing the good works God has prepares for us while we are down here.

[@lovelylovely9483]

Lord Jesus never fails

[@mrhickswife]

Wow. Very thorough! I fall under the full Preterist view, but don't really fit in the millennium columns, unless amill could be understood as written- meaning no millennium. I see the millennium as the day of the Lord or the day of judgement for old covenant Israel. Thanks for a great video!

[@ellenstar1155]

Old has been depleted…

[@jhoughjr1]

That is an awesome chart. A lost art is a chart like that.

[@ReadyToHarvest]

Download the Hi-res chart here: readytoharvest.com/christian-eschatology-chart/ Books for further study: *Amillennial Futurism* Joseph Meiring - The Four Keys to the Millennium amzn.to/3sITbqA *Premillennial Futurism* Three Views on the Rapture amzn.to/3DPRHkt Charles Ryrie - The Basis of the Premillennial Faith amzn.to/3fjPHro George E. Ladd - The Gospel of the Kingdom amzn.to/3fmdBCE *Premillennial Historicism* Henry Grattan Guinness - The Approaching End of the Age amzn.to/3SPkmdF Ellen G White - The Great Controversy amzn.to/3DKIKsQ *Amillennial Idealism* Sam Waldron - The End Times Made Simple amzn.to/3SR47wN Sam Waldron - More End Times Made Simple amzn.to/3U4R2S9 Anthony A Hoekema - The Bible and the Future amzn.to/3TRlnmM *Postmillennial Idealism* RJ Rushdoony - Thy Kingdom Come amzn.to/3TNyJQZ *Amillennial Preterism* Craig Koester - Revelation and the End of All Things amzn.to/3NiXv9b *Postmillennial Preterism* Jay Rogers - In The Days of These Kings amzn.to/3DlaiDE Doug Wilson - Heaven Misplaced amzn.to/3DiyK8F Greg Bahnsen - Victory in Jesus amzn.to/3Fp4o77 *Full Preterism* Ed Stevens - What Happened in A.D. 70 amzn.to/3sFEt3q *Premillennial Preterism* Duncan McKenzie - The Antichrist and the Second Coming Part I - Daniel amzn.to/3TSOZAu Duncan McKenzie - The Antichrist and the Second Coming Part II - Revelation amzn.to/3fguazI J Stuart Russell - The Parousia amzn.to/3SQvl6y *Realized Eschatology* CH Dodd - The Coming of Christ amzn.to/3DJhsml John A.T. Robinson - Jesus and His Coming amzn.to/3fgYPgp *Consistent Eschatology* Albert Schweitzer - The Mystery of the Kingdom of God amzn.to/3DH36TI *Eclecticism* Sam Storms - Kingdom Come amzn.to/3sICfjR Bryan Tabb - All Things New amzn.to/3FqdG2N G.K. Beale - Revelation A Shorter Commentary amzn.to/3fm6071 The links above are affiliate links, you can support the channel by using them as I may receive some small percentage from Amazon if you make a purchase.

[@clicksavant]

Thank you for the links; that is convenient and my pleasure to click on your affiliate links. However if I had looked at the comments before pausing the video repeatedly and searching for those I've not read, (Duncan T. McKenzie being the difficult one), I would have saved myself the effort. :)

[@Meop79]

Excellent series. There is one thing I might add on this and that is a view that I suppose I would describe as Recapitulationist. That would be a typically premillenial position that suggests that the eschatological events described in the Bible refer to multiple recapitulations culminating with final end times futurist style events. This view would borrow heavily from both partial-preterist and historicist position but ultimately end with a futurist outlook.

[@brettmajeske3525]

@@Meop79 There is a common view among LDS (which I know many Protestants reject as Christian) of multiple or cyclical fulfillments of prophecy. The idea is that something can be both literal and symbolic; that just because a particular historical event matches does not mean other events could also match; that a single prophecy can exist equally in the past, present, and future. This seems to be what you are talking about, and didn't seem to be explicitly mentioned in the video.

[@Meop79]

@@brettmajeske3525 yes, this is a reasonable view of a number of prophecies in the book of Revelation especially. I have heard it in one form or other from a number of protestant sources.

[@brettmajeske3525]

@@Meop79 I was just surprised it was not mentioned as an option in the video.

[@SelectCircle]

Very very interesting. Thank you for the good work you do! Somehow I went to a conservative Christian high school (where BTW I lost my faith) and NEVER learned anything about eschatology at all (nor about Love and Joy).

[@eg5646]

RC Sproul must’ve changed/blended his view at some point? I remember him saying we should read view ends times with the Bible (Revelation) in one hand, and a newspaper in the other. That seems to be Historicist, but I agree otherwise he seems to be Amil/post-mil Partial-preterist. (I remember a tweet from him saying he was Partial-preterist later in his life.) Also a bit surprised that Knox is considered Amil rather than post-mil. But yepp, quick Google search confirms that’s likely the best way to categorize him.

[@fluentreasoningchannel5778]

How could there be last days in a kingdom without end? Inaccurate Eschatology causes believers to: Wait for a King, who already reigns, Wait for a kingdom, they're already in, Wait to become, what they already are, Wait for power, that they already have, Wait for an Age, that they're already in, Wait for victory, that has already been won, Wait to do, what they should already be doing.

[@michaelseay9783]

Who represents the king and where is this person located?

[@fluentreasoningchannel5778]

@@michaelseay9783 “who is king?” Jesus is Lord and King. “where is he located?” at the right hand of God. See Acts 7:55-56; Romans 8:34; Ephesians 1:20; Colossians 3:1; Hebrews 1:3; Hebrews 8:1; Hebrews 10:12; Hebrews 12:2; 1 Peter 3:22; Revelation 3:21; Matthew 22:44; Acts 2:33. Jesus informs that we cannot observe the kingdom (Luke 17:20-21) and that his kingdom is not of this world (John 18:36). Why would anyone expect to observe the kingdom in this world?

[@michaelseay9783]

Great points!

[@RaptorLlama]

I'm curious where the following volume would land: The Apocalypse: In the Teachings of Ancient Christianity by Archbishop Averky Taushev, translated from the Russian into English by Fr. Seraphim Rose.

[@michaelg.tucker6363]

Looking forward to purchasing your chart on this topic.

[@jeffking4176]

I’ve come up against just about all of these in prison. [ 12 years]. Everyone has a different view of Christianity. Kind of crazy. But many of these were real true solid Christians. [ I was very blessed to be at the prison camp I was at. We had a fantastic Chaplain, and almost some ministry ministry every evening. Lots of people laboring in prayer over us at that camp. We would examine Scripture, debate, preach and teach. In prison , everyone has a different Bible, and all sorts of material were made available to us. Not only Christians, but just about every sect of every religion known - and some , not even on the books. ✝️🙏🙂

[@EyeToob]

After hearing just about all of these in prison which one made the most sense to you - - or did you become a Panmillennialist?

[@jeffking4176]

@@EyeToob 🤣. Seriously, I do lean towards a Premillennialism, though I can’t say I have absolute full understanding. I do tend to lean generally towards a “classic Pentecostal “ view, with perhaps a few ‘reservations’. I’m just a Christian. My main focus was /is more towards the “Deliverance “ end of the scope - I , myself having overcome, and delivered from Addictions, depression, and oppression. [ I’ve also seen, and experienced the spirit world (including the demonic) as most Christians cannot even fathom]. I DO believe that, whichever, we need to be prepared for eternity - as we have no idea how many days we have. Too many are “ waiting on a Rapture “. They may not be here that long. ✝️🙏🙂

[@EyeToob]

@@jeffking4176 Thanks for answering my question. Excellent point you made about us having no idea how many days we have. Glad to hear you're growing in Christ.

[@jeffking4176]

@@EyeToob People talk about “jailhouse religion “, well, sometimes it’s real. I’ve been out 15 years, own a successful business, [ Auto Detailing], own a house, paid off mortgage, … Even though I burned all bridges to past and family, God has brought me new friends, a very supportive church, great pastor, and given me a small ministry to Africa. The Lord is truly amazing ‼️ ✝️🙏🙂

[@EyeToob]

@@jeffking4176 It's very uplifting to hear your conversion in jail is seed that fell on good ground and is producing a crop! I'm praise God! :D Yes, the Lord is truly amazing!

[@mrhickswife]

Would you consider a follow up video on the different views of afterlife according to the varying eschatological views??? Please! I know a few of the views... -the classic partial Preterist amill believe when they die they go to hades/Sheol to await the resurrection and will then live forever on the new heaven & new earth -the premill pretrib rapture view believe if they die before the rapture they go to heaven but at the 2nd coming will get a new glorified physical body to reign in the millennium and then live forever on the new heaven and earth. -the full Preterist view is when you die you go to heaven to live forever with the Lord. But I do not know the other positions! Thanks again! Grace & peace to you!

[@achristian11]

When did the word “interesting” become inner-resting ? 🤔 Great video brother

[@20thcenturytunes]

Bravo sir, well done, may I suggest a couple MORE rabbit hoples? Apostolic Succession and Eucharist - oy

[@SelectCircle]

What are those?

[@megroux]

Do you have a video on the different views of the afterlife?

[@BibleandSoCal]

Great video! I appreciate the objective treatment of all viewpoints. However, there is a futurist postmillennial viewpoint. It just isn't held today. But it was common at the time of the founding of the U.S. John Jefferson Davis of Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary discusses this view in his book "Christ's Victorious Kingdom: Postmillennialism Reconsidered." In that view, there is the early church with its trials and tribulations, followed by the millennium, and then a period of apostasy and trouble before Christ's Second Coming. Looking back at history and the decline of Christianity in many places today, it could be argued that this view might even be accurate, and that the millennium has passed and we are entering the final period before Christ's return.

[@SelectCircle]

The millennium passed in that case a millennium ago.

[@Origen17]

Universal Reconciliation would be one of those. Strange, though, as it was the most popular eschatology for the first 500 years of Christendom.

[@giovannimieli4271]

Oh hey Origen, the anathema still burns eh?

[@abaddon2148]

@@TigerWave01 it doesn't make sense because an eternal burning hell isn't a historical concept. it's invented

[@abaddon2148]

@@TigerWave01 much like a lot of modern christian theology it's a later invention (hilariously enough an eternal hell of burning torment likely comes from pagan roman/greek sources) and personally without it things make much more sense, the way that people just accept an eternal fire and brimstone hell to exist created by a supposedly all loving god to send his own children to (because of the pain, suffering, and disobedience that he ultimately created and allows us to participate in... so the "we send ourselves there" argument also makes no sense) without properly critically exploring the implications of it is kind of sad to me. i'm not an athiest by the way i'm quite the opposite, but a theist who doesn't subscribe to scaremongering culture

[@litigioussociety4249]

@@TigerWave01 If you see it as separation from God with someone who can't or won't be reunited with him, then I think it makes more sense. There are the third age, temporal hell believers. They believe hell is only lasting from the end of this age to the end of the next, believing another age will be ushered in at some unknown point. This view extrapolates an entire theology of hell based on just a couple verses of the Bible, such as Matthew 5:26 "...you will not get out until you have paid the last penny." I don't think it's a salvation issue to hold this view, but it could be condemnable to preach it. Such interpretations are best preached as the verses themselves, telling that some interpret them that way, and not claiming them to be definitive truth. This would be true for many controversial verses, such is the case with much of eschatology. I personally believe the view is heresy, as Jesus repeatedly preaches hell as eternal in many different ways in his parables, such as where the worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched. One has to read between the lines something like "(while they are condemned,)" and Jesus never makes any such clarification.

[@alessandrorossi1294]

@@TigerWave01 eternal hell needs to exist because justice needs to exist because God is good. Many people cruel who degrade life would escape justice entirely if not for God’s punishment. Since God is just we know there must be a place of punishment: hell

[@DoctrinesofRad]

is there anywhere we could download the presentation? Not just the slide, which was awesome, but the whole slideshow you used?

[@garyjohnston2777]

Great Videos

[@stephenbailey9969]

Amillennialists are very good at describing those themes of Biblical eschatology which inform critiques of this world system, as well as in describing the mission of the church in the world.. Premillennialists are very good at describing the most natural reading of Biblical eschatological chronology, and also in encouraging an urgent evangelism.

[@gregb6469]

What is most natural to those of us today is not necessarily what was most natural to those of the 1st century.

[@stephenbailey9969]

@@gregb6469 All indication is that the original doctrine of the first century believers is precisely that natural reading of the scriptures many follow today. Historic premillennialism is certainly attested to in the writings of the apostolic fathers.

[@RickCassada]

Some clarification is needed (imo). Technically, Full Preterism is the only view that sees all prophecies as past (fulfilled). (I'm referencing only Christians (believers) in this post). Full Preterists are the only Non-Futurist School in eschatology (since other views see some or many things as yet future). It isn't true that Preterists see "most things as being in the past." If we're talking about the book of Revelation, this would be true with a qualification: Both Partial and Full Preterists believe Rev chapters 1-19 are in the past -- and are about the "coming of Christ in judgment" on Jerusalem in 70AD. Partial Preterists believe there is yet another Coming of Christ in our future. They identify it as 'the Second Coming'. However, and technically speaking, this would be a third coming of Christ. Full Preterists identify the 70AD judgment as the one and only Second Coming of Christ and that the entire book of Revelation portrays present spiritual realities (life right now).

[@oracleoftroy]

0:50 You say that's pretty strange, yet just about every postmil I've heard is open to that exact scenario, even Greg Bahnsen who you list in your sources correctly as a partial preterist. They will make the point that if this is supposed to be a "great" apostasy, what's so great about the church declining and declining and then with a whimper there is a final supposedly "great" apostasy? It actually makes more sense if most of the world is Christian and Satan rallies the nominal Christians in one final push against the church, as there you have room for a truly great apostasy.

[@christopherskipp1525]

Where may one obtain a chart like the one in the video? Thank you.

[@ProselyteofYah]

I have my own view, of what I haven't really seen or heard much by others, and so I call it "dualism", meaning I'm both a Preterist and a Futurist (not to be confused with partial-preterism), and I believe Biblical prophecies relating to the Last Days and Second Coming, happened both in the 1st century 70 A.D in a "lesser way" or symbolic way, and that Revelation speaks of the events of 70 A.D, but spiritualises them and projects them into the future for a larger fulfilment; E,g; Getting out of Jerusalem and fleeing to the mountains = Getting out of Babylon and fleeing to Mount Zion (heavenly mountains). Both being the abandonment of corrupt religious systems/cities and antichrist institutions, in order to be saved. Symbolic whore of Babylon riding the Beast which was then eaten by it = Religiously perverted Jerusalem destroyed by Rome. In future = Religiously perverted Christian church to be destroyed by the increasingly antichrist nations that the churches try to "play politics" with. In this, I believe we look to the prophetic past to know the future. My interpretation is In the manner that Jesus harkens back to the prophecies of Daniel, relating them to Rome and the coming destruction that followed in 70 A.D, but the prophecies of Daniel (especially chapters 11-12) were also fulfilled during the Maccabean period (the 100s B.C), with exception to Daniel's resurrection. Hence, Jesus himself applies a dualism to previously fulfilled prophecies (and were seen to come into fruition). Likewise, Jesus often referred to other past events as symbols, such as the Flood, and the fire of Sodom. In this respect, I feel there are "prophetic repetitions" and echoes, until they come to their fully realised fulfilment during the real visible return of Christ in the future, followed by a real physical rule upon the Earth, and the literal resurrection (in this respect I'm a "soul-sleeper" who believes the dead still await to be raised). So you might call me a "dualist premillennial progressive dispensationalist". Though I suppose some might see my view as a form of "premillennial Eclecticism". I believe Futurism, Preterism, Historicism and Idealism, all have "fragments of truth", because all of them are true in their own way in a grander scheme of things, and people arguing over them are missing the forest for the trees.

[@fluffysheap]

I'm not sure this is an unusual view, but I don't like the name - there are already at least two important things called "dualism" in religion and philosophy. Maybe there's already a well-known name for this, but if not I'd suggest something like cyclical eschatology or prefigured futurism.

[@lalumierehuguenote]

What are your grounds for this dual fulfilment?

[@briandiehl9257]

I believe that view is called progressive futurism/progressive dispensationalism. Mike winger mentioned that view

[@ProselyteofYah]

@@fluffysheap Appreciate that Fluffy. I agree 100%, I know what you mean about the "dualism" term. I've not been able to think of an alternative term to use until now, so thanks for that. I'll be using it.

[@ProselyteofYah]

@@lalumierehuguenote Would take a while to explain. In short, it's based on my understanding of the second advent and what it will result in. I believe when Jesus returns, the Millennium will be a real physical reign of Christ on Earth witnessed by the entire world, which begins with a rapture/1st resurrection of faithful Christians, I also believe this will lead to the final battle of Armageddon where the current rulers of the world, who will oppose Christ, will be removed, and then replaced by Christ's kingdom of kings and priests for a millennium. During this age, as the Devil is abyssed, I am to understand it will be a golden age of peace, with Jesus and his kings and priests ruling here in the flesh. And during or after which, the second resurrection on Earth will happen. And then the release of the Devil for the final test of the resurrected unrighteous, for judgement and afterward, everlasting peace of Heaven on Earth, New Jerusalem's integration upon Earth. Seeing that, there are still evil forces ruling this world, corruption, wars, etc, and that nobody has ever witnessed the real return of Christ in history or a mass physical resurrection of people coming out their graves, or rapture, I hold this to be an event that is yet to come (hence my premillennial stance). However, Revelation mentions many events from 70.AD, and Jewish and Roman records also mention heavenly sightings of armies and voices during that time the Temple fell. Preterists will be quick to point to the works of Josephus and Tacitus. So many of the heavenly sights and miraculous things in the skies Jesus described in his Olivet Discourse, happened in 70 A.D, however... not to the full fruition of the prior things I mentioned, there was no rapture, Jesus did not begin ruling on Earth. And so in this respect, it lays some of the ground work for a "double meaning". That we've seen a "lesser fulfilment" in 70 A.D, which Revelation describes in symbols, but then tells us, they will lead into the very end times when Christ rules on Earth. As I said before, Daniel's prophecies were fulfilled in both the Maccabean period, and the Roman period, with exception to two things, Daniel's bodily resurrection, and the bodily resurrection of the faithful Christians. Jesus calling back to Daniel, I believe informs us Daniel's prophecies had more than one meaning, rather than just singular Maccabean fulfilment, and this makes sense, seeing that Daniel wasn't raised from the dead in the Maccabean times. Likewise, I observe the same pattern in the Roman period fulfilment, that we see a great deal of fulfilments, even the "signs of the son of man" in the skies, but not to the full extent. Some will claim Daniel and Christ were false prophets, because not 'all' the things they said happened, and to explain this difficulty, this is why some people try to claim full preterism, and others and "symbolise" Christ's rule of the Earth as invisible or Heavenly based, and regard the rapture/resurrection as "invisible" over a long period of time also. There have been many futuristic interpretations of Jesus' words too, and people trying to explain "this generation", "those who pierced me will see me", as future events, etc, etc. In this respect, I don't believe "anyone" has gone to Heaven yet, and that the idea of the soul going to Heaven at death and an invisible rapture, based on my historical and scriptural studies, to be a gnostic teaching which originated with the likes of Simon the Sorcerer, Valentinus, Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:17-18). The resurrection of the dead is described to be a physical event on the earth by Paul, where all Christians who have ever lived will be raised from their graves and clothed with immorality, along with those living at the time, all being taken to Christ in the air, followed by the rule of Christ's kingdom. Nobody has witnessed this. And many of the early 2nd century-3rd century church fathers had the same opinion. But at the same time, there certainly was "some kind" of fulfilment in 70 A.D, according to the historical witnesses, and so when I look back into the patterns of previous Last Days prophecies in Daniel, and how Jesus used them from the OT, I feel Revelation is doing the same thing with the fall of Jerusalem.

[@justin_messer]

Full preterism just sounds gnostic as it implies Christ’s resurrection is different than our resurrection and that Our mortal bodies are not redeemed but remain eternally corrupted.

[@gregb6469]

Those are two of the main reasons I remain a partial preterist. The fulls redefine the meaning of resurrection to fit their theory.

[@loganberlew3191]

As an Amill Partial Preterist, I see a lot of the “Hyper Futurist Dispensationalist” beliefs to border on Gnosticism at times, of course I have to give the not all statement, but that train of thought tends to the continuing revelation belief that is borderline heresy imo, I’m interested to see how some people are going to respond to my comment

[@GalenCurrah]

I shall be willing to pay for the chart, when you make it available.

[@mikehansberger9485]

Great Video. When will the chart be available for purchase?

[@francescocarlini7613]

I'm an eclecticist outside of the Christian camp, blending together Consistent Eschatology, historicism and a sequence of dispensations (like the Thelemic Aeons).

[@bobmetzger6215]

Is this chart available for purchase?

[@williambrewer]

Question about pre-millennial preterism, what if the millennium is exactly a thousand years and ended in 1070? What if the Little season was the few hundred years after that? Would this be called pre-millennial full preterism?

[@anotherguy2741]

How about the Yogi Berra Theory of eschatology? It ain't over till it's over!😀

[@gregb6469]

And when you come to a fork in the road, take it!

[@GermanShepherd1983]

Sounds like deja vu all over again.

[@jefftitterington7600]

I was truly worried about such things until I realized that many intelligent, educated, and sincere people had examined the same texts and come to such different conclusions. I concluded that the details don't matter - what does matter is living today well.

[@xintimidate]

The details do matter. It's clear that apostate Christianity will enforce the mark of the beast and those who keep God's commandments won't get the mark. Most Christians think God did away with his commandments. He hasn't. The Bible is actually very clear on the timeline of end time events. The problem is people are influenced by Jesuits. Preterism and Futurism were both created during the counter reformation. Read what the reformers thought of end time events. They all agreed on who the man of sin was which is the papacy. The only way you come to these wacky conclusions like preterism and futurism is if you try to add nuance, try to blur the line, add your own interpretation, or completely ignore other verses and don't try to find a way to reconcile all of them. People love picking certain verses to build a doctrine then ignore the ones that disagree with their preconceived notions. The only right way to read Bible prophecy is through a historical lens.

[@jefftitterington7600]

@@xintimidate I'm old enough that I'm less certain that I have a lock on "the truth" of many subjects. Which is a way of saying you could be correct. But this isn't the place to discuss hermeneutics.

[@xintimidate]

@@jefftitterington7600 This is the most appropriate place for hermeneutics. The Bibles truths are simple once you study them and ask the Holy Spirit for guidance. Also, researching the origins of most doctrines certainly helps.

[@stuartnochance]

It would seem to me that this entire channel is an appropriate place (and all about) hermeneutics. If Bible truths were so simple and revealed by asking the Holy Spirit for guidance, this channel wouldn’t exist, since there would be exactly one Christian denomination.

[@xintimidate]

@@stuartnochance Thats not true at all. Many "Christians" arent saved and many pastors lead their flock astray with false doctrines. The Bible is clear that there would be a falling away shortly after the death of the apostles

[@rogermetzger7335]

Living Lutheran has a webpage (by John Potter March 13, 2017) that lists fifty protestant reformers. Does anyone know which of them promoted either preterists, futurist or idealist/allegorical interpretation of Bible prophecies? As far as I know, they all used the historicist method which starts with the premise that we should look for fulfillment of prophecy in the past while acknowledging that some prophecies may be in the process of fulfillment in the present and that some will be fulfilled in the future. Does anyone know which of those same reformers interpreted the following passages as meaning that the purpose of the second advent of Jesus is to resurrect the people who have died in faith and take living believers with them to the mansions he has gone to prepare? I don’t know of any. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. - John 14:2 & 3 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. - I Corinthians 15:51-54 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. - I Thesalonians 4:13-18

[@rickball3147]

Where would you classify Michael Gorman?

[@PseudoPseudoDionysius]

I would be interested to know how you would categorise the eschatology of the likes of Jurgen Moltmann.

[@napoleonfeanor]

You said Schweitzer was liberal BUT still said Jesus is to be followed. But that means there are other groups who think people shouldn't follow Christ? This is quite shocking to me. Seeing Jesus as a unique figure who had a special purpose from God has always been the ultra-minimalist definition of Christian. Even Hindu Gandhi and Atheism Guru Dawkins have said that Jesus preached things worth following. Can anybody tell me which "liberal" groups don't think that? I'm from Europe and the state adjacent churches have gonr very "leftist" and follow the woke Western (not s thing in most non-Western places) zeitgeist but they still stick to the basic theology. I cannot imagine churches to deny those while still keeping the Christian label...

[@SelectCircle]

There are no Christian sects that don't follow Christ - at least per their own interpretation of Him. That said - some deny His divinity and even rank Buddha over Him as a teacher! Really - they worship the Left and follow the Left's every faddish change. They go to church to hear this week's dictate from the Left - but will always define themselves as Christian because they interpret Christ as the Left's complete and eternal fool and at least the second-most important validator of everything the Left ever has to say.

[@napoleonfeanor]

@@SelectCircle One of my profs once jokingly said that there is not a single "leftist" doctrine that activists haven't tried to find a Christian justification for by bending the Bible and The Church (he's Catholic and holds some "rightist" positions)

[@mmcintire65]

Thanks!

[@ReadyToHarvest]

I appreciate that!

[@Kuudere-Kun]

I would argue the Eschatology presented in the Apocalypse of Pseudo-Methodius and the Book of The Bee's final chapters are Post Millennial Futurist, those texts simply failed to use the word Millennium or specific a Thousand Years for the future Christian Empire they predict.

[@ellenstar1155]

I am a full preterist who believes Jesus already returned with the wrath of God, coming upon the clouds…. Ephesians 1:9-10 Jesus made heaven and earth one again…we can go up in the air (spirit) and worship Him and see Him face to face. Now it’s time for the revealing of the sons of God, wich the creation longs for. We will go up to heaven and see what the father does hear what the father says, juist like Jesus did during His life on earth. So we can receive the will of God and how to rule like the original plan restored. Until the knowledge of God will cover all the earth…heaven and earth blending together in fullness. The future is bright. The light is gaining as the kingdom is growing. Gods plan is goooooooood. Hallelujah!

[@jrpeet]

Really helpful

[@danielboone8256]

How can we know when this chart will be available?

[@Keonny77]

Swendenborg (The New Church) teaches this.

[@thejewishredneckprepper4675]

Preterism is mentioned in the bible. Brother Paul already dealt with it. Those that taught it were condemned to hell.

[@richardligthart1664]

See Dr. John Noe's book "Unraveling the End"

[@skicrz]

Didn't Jesus himself say you won't know the end till it happens and not to believe those who say they know?

[@oracleoftroy]

Yes, but where are you going with that? I hope this isn't an excuse to ignore scriptures on these matters altogether. It does mean we need to be careful in how we approach these things, and I absolutely agree that we mustn't get so full of ourselves that we think we know exactly how these things will play out.

[@dragonbillylee4781]

Most partial preterists think that the tribulation and second coming happened some short time after 70ad. Within the "generation" of the apostles. This was followed by the earthly Millenium Kingdom of Jesus. In this view, we are now living in the time of "Satan's Little Season", Revelation 20. The final battle is still to be fought, the Gog/Magog War. With the peoples of the Earth surrounding the "Camp of the Saints". After this comes the "Great White Throne Judgement".

[@franz-georgleopold-pagel3018]

So... is the world/humanity/Christianity getting better or worse? From the news I used to think, that we are getting better - not heavenly, not at all - but better. Now I am less optimistic with followers of God killing each other for very unjust reasons. But, what do the churches say?

[@Onkuty]

It should be said, that full preterism is heresy.

[@gregb6469]

How is it a heresy? How does believing it block one from salvation? The fulls I know about believe in the Trinity, the deity of Christ, salvation by grace through faith alone, etc.

[@Meop79]

@@gregb6469 It is heresy because it believes in this being the New Heavens and the New Earth. The Bible makes it very clear that sin and pain will not exist in the New Earth. Sin exists now. Hence, it is heresy.

[@gregb6469]

@@Meop79 -- You must define heresy dfferently than i do. I distinguish between heresy and error. To me, a heresy is an error in a basic area of doctrine so severe that holding to it excludes one from being a Christian. These would include questions of who God is (any view other than trinitarian monotheism is heresy), who Christ is (any view of Him as other than fully God and fully man is heresy), who the Holy Spirit is (any view of Him that makes him to be less than the Third Person of the triune Godhead is heresy), how one is saved (anything other than salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, to the glory of God alone is heresy). I do not put opinions about eschatology in the same category as these matters. Full preterism may well be an error, but as long as those holding that position are right about the matters I listed above, I will recognize them as my brothers in Christ.

[@Meop79]

@@gregb6469 this is the same as modern gender theory, except it's worse as it says it will happen after the Bible says their is no sin. So, it is an attack on the forgiveness of sin, destruction of sin, punishment of sinners, infallibility of God etc. And so is an attack on such basic fundamental beliefs that if believed it undermines all others.

[@gregb6469]

@@Meop79 -- I suspect you haven't actually read any full preterist material.

[@thesuperjacobshow8151]

As a firm believer in readthebibleology I can firmly assert that it doesn't say most of the things people say it says.

[@George-ur8ow]

Do you not see that the same thing applies to you? You, yourself, are determining what it says and does not say. The irony of sola scriptura.

[@thesuperjacobshow8151]

@@George-ur8ow The difference is that I don't tell people what I think the bible says. I tell people to read it for themselves.

[@Meop79]

@@George-ur8ow No, the Bible interprets itself. But you do have to read it with an open heart.

[@fluffysheap]

I think one takeaway from this is that I should stop being lazy and using "pre-millenial" and "futurist" interchangeably. Unfortunately "futurist" has a totally different meaning in secular philosophy, of course this is not the first name collision...

[@WilliamSwartzendruber]

What is it called if you don't worry about tomorrow because each day has enough trouble of its own?

[@alessandrorossi1294]

That’s the panmillenialism thing Josh mentioned at the end

[@WilliamSwartzendruber]

@@alessandrorossi1294 Well, you know, I asked a question and did indeed get an answer. So...thank you!

[@marym922]

Matthew 6:34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. (I'd read this in context if I were you, especially the verse before it :-)

[@andresmartinezramos7513]

It is a view based on the first book of the tetralogy by Horace, 1st Odes (sometimes know as "Carminum liber I") In the following passage: Tu ne quaesieris, scire nefas, quem mihi, quem tibi finem di dederint, Leuconoe, nec Babylonios temptaris numeros. ut melius, quidquid erit, pati. seu pluris hiemes seu tribuit Iuppiter ultimam, quae nunc oppositis debilitat pumicibus mare Tyrrhenum. Sapias, vina liques et spatio brevi spem longam reseces. dum loquimur, fugerit invida aetas: carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero. Horace - 1.11 Commonly referred to by the duplet form the last line "Carpe Diem" To whomever it may concern, Yes, this is a parody of the way people tend to quote Bible verses. This is the Internet, some people may not have realized. This has nothing to do with the Bible, but it is an actually accurate response.

[@lovejoypeaceforever]

We are told that "the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first." The same connection of the sound of the trumpet with the resurrection is also made in I Corinthians 15:51-52. Matthew 24:21-31 teaches that the coming of Christ will be "as the lightning" (v. 27), that "all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet . . .." (vv. 30-31). In addition to describing this event as noisy and clearly visible by all the inhabitants of the earth, this passage also warns us against belief in a secret coming of Christ: "Then if anyone says to you, Look, here is the Christ! or There! do not believe it (v. 23); and, if they say to you, Look, He is in the desert! do not go out; or Look, he is in the inner rooms! do not believe it" (v. 26). There will be absolutely no question about what has happened after Christ has come. People left behind will not be dreaming up explanations they will be mourning because their judgment has come. Also going against this theory is II Thessalonians 2:1-10, which teaches that two events will occur prior to the coming of Christ: (1) "the falling away" (or "rebellion,", or, literally, "apostasy"); (2) the revelation of "the man of sin." Now whether we understand the Antichrist as nothing more than the spirit of Antichrist, or as a particular individual, one thing is clear: this revelation of the Antichrist will be prior to Christ's coming, not afterwards. Scripture teaches that the coming of Christ will be sudden and unexpected, especially to unbelievers. This is the teaching of Paul in I Thessalonians 5:1-10. But to say that it will be sudden and unexpected is not to say that it will be secret. The passage that is most frequently used to substantiate a secret rapture and unbelievers being left behind is Luke 17:31-37, which speaks of "two in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left." It is perfectly true that this passage teaches that unbelievers will be left behind. But there is nothing here to indicate the imaginative dispensational scenario of the one being taken away secretly. Comparing Scripture with Scripture we must conclude that those left behind are left behind to suffer judgment. II Thessalonians 1:3-10 speaks of the Lord Jesus "in flaming fire taking vengeance" when he is revealed from heaven. Unbelievers will not be left behind to go through a seven year tribulation and have a second chance to accept the Lord during that time. This idea of a second chance is emphasized again and again in Left Behind, and yet this is an idea which is foreign to Scripture. Concerning the Left Behind books, can anything positive be said? First, they are well written and engaging. Second, the plan of salvation is, on the whole, accurately represented: it is clear that conversion is much more than a bare profession of faith, but is accompanied by repentance and followed by a changed life. Third, these books certainly impress upon people the reality of the return of Christ, even if the details regarding it are misrepresented.

[@whangadude]

I was raised a Jehovah's Witness and or though I certainly don't believe their (intentional) misunderstandings of the end times any more, I hadn't really thought about how varied the different interpretations of it could end up being. I feel like their Eschatology would be classified as Eclectic, as they would always talk about how many of the things happened at the Fall of Jerusalem, but then also were events that happened in the last two thousand years, but also how the same passages were yet to be fully fulfilled, and would be happening very very soon, so soon that there was no reason to go to University or anything, since Armageddon would be here before I was an adult ( the same thing they've been telling their followers for well over 100 years now lol). But I've long since realized that the JW leadership don't seem to have any real grasp on biblical teachings and it's taken decades to undo all the wrongs I had taken for granted, ie; only a few years ago realizing hardly anybody else taught that Archangel Michael and Jesus are one and the same (which in hindsight is obvious, since most believe in the Trinity). I know Ready For Harvest have already done a video explaining all the differences between JW teachings and mainstream Christians, but an in depth look at the End Times of JWs and some of the other really out there sects would make for a good video I reckon. As always this was a great video, keep up the good work my dude.

[@fluentreasoningchannel5778]

What we believe determines how we behave. Vanity has always interfered with the proper understanding of scripture. Charles Parnham (Pentecostal) precisely like Charles Taze Russell (JW), William Miller (7th Day Adventist), Joseph Smith (Mormon) all believed that Jesus was returning specifically for them and only for them and their silly club houses. That is, they all read themselves into the story, as they all believed that Jesus was telling THEM that he was returning soon, in their generation for THEM. Sound familiar? Charlie P.’s Doctrine of Evidence (speaking in tongues), was his unique evidence, that only they would be raptured. Did you know that Jesus appeared invisibly in the clouds? In 1844 for the 7th Day Adventist (Investigative Judgement) and 1914 for the JW. He must have, because if he didn’t, these cults follow false prophets. See John 15:16, a verse that debunks every cult’s teaching that we may choose God by joining their club, as every cult teaches that Jesus is coming “soon,” just for THEM.

[@fluentreasoningchannel5778]

@YAJUN YUAN SDA’s were initially founded in 1863 from the Millerite movement. I.e. “the Second Great Awakening.” Many others also initially identified as “Millerites,” such as Charles Taze Russell (founder of the Jehovah Witnesses) and Benjamin Purnell (founder of the House of David). See Galatians 5:3, where William Miller likely did not want to be obligated to keep the whole Law. What’s a wave offering?

[@fluentreasoningchannel5778]

@YAJUN YUAN the “Investigative Judgement” is indeed SDA doctrine, where it is alleged that Jesus appeared invisibly in the clouds in 1844. Those involved with cults, rarely understand their own doctrine. Instead of enjoying our new covenant of grace, the SDA errantly self-imposes bondage (an unnecessary fixation upon the law.) I.e. “keeping the sabbath.” Paul is equally frustrated with the same misguided errancy when instructing the silly people to go all the way in Galatians 5:12.

[@fluentreasoningchannel5778]

@YAJUN YUAN “We believe 1844 is when Christ's ministry of the preadvent judgement started.” What does this silly nonsense mean? You write this and still don’t recognize that you belong to a cult? I’m with Paul… you should go all the way.

[@fluentreasoningchannel5778]

@YAJUN YUAN with regard to judgement, see 1 Thessalonians 2:15-16 for clarity with who received God’s wrath. Like you, William Miller thought that he was living in the end times. In the days of Moses, he would have been stoned when his failed predictions never came to pass. I.e. Jesus initially was supposed to physically return in 1844, and when this did not happen, we instead have the Investigative Judgement. For how many more thousands of years will we be living in the end times? The end of what? The Historicist view is truly a product of the narcissism required to believe that everything must be all about you.

[@sylvia4425]

*Millennial. Amillennial. Post Millinnial....Sooooooo confusing. Why these terms to describe Preterist, Historicist & Futurist??*

[@danielreiss3443]

Have you also considered a 3rd coming of Jesus Christ down from heaven with the New Jerusalem, resurrection of the wicked, execution of the judgement, lake of fire, and God creating a New Heaven/Earth? Thanks

[@SelectCircle]

Where does Jonathan Cahn stand?

[@michaelseay9783]

He firmly believes that the 70th week of Daniel hasn’t been fulfilled, so that points to Futurism, but I’m not sure where he stands on other eschatological events.

[@SelectCircle]

@@michaelseay9783 I know the implication in his books is that we got a long way to go yet - because Israel isn't fully restored.

[@papageno88]

So where would you put the view that the book of revelation is talking about the current state of the Roman empire (e.g. the beast of the earth is Nero, etc.) and the hoped for White Rider was the Christians' hope that Persia would liberate them again like Cyrus did? Given that "King of kings" is quite famously the title of the Persian emperor, this doesn't seem impressive to me.

[@michaelseay9783]

Sounds like a type of Historicist view.

[@RonJohn63]

Is this part of your academic work?

[@sylvia4425]

You skipped the Historicist view.

[@davewhite756]

5:25 you're not born again if you don't believe in the resurrection.

[@rkb5833]

Where do the Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and Oriental Orthodox church's Eschatology views map on this chart?

[@soarel325]

Not sure about Orthodox Christians but the Roman Catholic Church generally teaches preterism. The chart includes a few popular Catholic apologists who are strong advocates of preterism. Futurism is very rare outside Evangelical Christianity and functionally a non-factor among most Catholics.

[@fluentreasoningchannel5778]

For 1,500 years of church history, the Partial Preterist view was the predominant mainstream understanding of the church. That is, the church held the Preterist view from Augustine in the fourth century until 1948. Ever since the reformation of Apostate Israel, many have reverted back to the initial views held by Irenaeus, Tertulian and others, where today, many believe, just like the early church, that we are now living in the end times. Consider that 1948 is biblically insignificant, because every land promise was fulfilled in Joshua’s day. See Joshua 21:43-45. How many thousands of years will it take, until everyone is a Preterist?

[@soarel325]

@@fluentreasoningchannel5778 Spot on

[@gobbleguk]

Consistent Eschatology sounds like Alfred Loisy's Modernism!

[@thesolution1225]

Cant wait

[@terryhumberd7546]

What about promill means I am for it however it happens 😮😊

[@americanswan]

Question, how old are these various views? Isn't the oldest the historist view? I get the impression the books and ideas you presented here are fairly modern.

[@acekoala457]

90% of the American Protestant Theology on the Endtimes is Modern.

[@americanswan]

@@acekoala457 that's what I thought. The traditional views of the reformers have been abandoned.

[@briandiehl9257]

I think technically futurism is the oldest

[@geordiewishart1683]

Its my understanding that futurism was invented by two Jesuits after the Reformation

[@americanswan]

@@geordiewishart1683 why are comments missing. I only see two.

[@internetdinosaur8810]

Wow I guess I hold to Ecclectism

[@hectorordonez446]

AME CHURCH

[@daskritterhaus5491]

lm really not into the deeper analyses regarding christianity. wtf is 'eschatological' anyway? plus my personal experience with 'caring christians' has been bitter. of all the churches l have ever attended, 5 of them treated me like dirt. curiously 3 of them no longer exist. my deep seated faith is still intact, l just care to be treated like the n word by these hypocrites.

[@SelectCircle]

Too many ministries are cult-like. For those of us who don't want to join cults - and are more mystical than scholarly - simplifying our faith to merely this formula - Jesus is God and He is the Word in His Person - makes for a very rewarding walk. And now let all the various cults join together to condemn that advice. Still I happily give it. And I just wish everyone knew and loved God - His very Person.