Let’s Chat With The Friend Who Challenged Me to Rethink Calvinism

[@twanettefourie3131]

Thank you, dear Alana and Lonnie. This was super helpful. I journeyed out of New Apostolic Reformation in search of truth and landed up at a church programme teaching Calvinism (TULIP). It was painful to get answers from either side, where I was coming out of, and where I was searching at the Calvinist / Reformed program, in vain. Both sides offered their theological systems and lenses. Only when I stopped being lazy and started studying the whole counsel of God, 2 Tim 2:15, did I learn the truth. The truth is ONLY found in God's Word. What a joy, sweet as honey, is His Word!

[@tamiamberg9876]

Hi Alana. I was watching the interview with JMac on the G3 video where he made that statement concerning you. I had been listening to everything JMac because I have been so impressed with his teachings for the most part. That statement just didn't sit right inside me and the next day your channel popped into my feeds. After watching your vids & testimony about coming out of Calvanism I realized it was you JMac was referring to! I know this is old news by now, but I believe this was the Lord's intervention for me. You are a young woman that the Lord is using in a great way! Do not fear man! Keep your eyes on the Lord & He will continue to direct your paths. ❤

[@naiomipatterson]

What statement did he make about Alana?

[@AlanaL3]

Yes. I’m pretty sure it was about be, but of course I don’t know absolutely for sure. I’ve been on soteriology 101 discussing it, and great light studios made a good video about it as well. Crazy huh? I find it so wild. Anyway, thank you for reaching out. Bless you on your journey.

[@AlanaL3]

@@naiomipatterson he called me a sophomoric wistful girl who doesn’t know what she’s talking about and should keep her thoughts to herself. You think maybe I struck a chord? Lol

[@amynordyke8980]

For me, I had to grapple with Calvinism when I began to realize that practically every well-known preacher is a Calvinist. I was blown away by that, and I had to figure out if all of these intellegent, educated men were believing and accepting the whole counsel of God - and I wasn't. It was driven by love for God, and a desire to submit my understanding to Him (which is the thing I think Calvinism preys on) - even if my heart and my conscience were screaming against TULIP. I am so thankful for the Word of God and for Leighton Flowers' ministry!! Loved this conversation, Ladies! It IS important! Calvinism is fueling deconstruction.

[@truth7416]

Exactly. Calvinism is what attempts to sift you for destruction. It is the greatest scheme of the Devil and his human children who follow him. It's a Doctrine of Demons to be marked out. Truth in Love

[@michelleduncan9600]

Terrific conversation no matter what sect of Christianity you’re coming out of that has twisted, added, or taken away from the Word of God. My journey out of the WOF movement was so similar to Lonnie’s. In about 4 months I read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation then the New Testament close to a dozen times. I was crying out to God to strip me of all concepts that had been added, to put back in what had been taken out, and to straighten what had been twisted. If we seek, we will find 🙌🏼

[@MrHwaynefair]

What wonderful testimonies❤️ I am a former Calvinist pastor who studied under R.C. Sproul at Reformed Theological Seminary. In my college days I was drawn to Calvinism because of what appeared to be a serious commitment to the deep study of scripture- and belief in it regardless of how offensive… It took 10 years as a PCA pastor to begin to realize that we were imposing an extra- biblical “system” onto the Bible that in the end denied the plain meaning of passages that didn’t fit the “doctrines of grace” (ironically called… A deeper study of Romans 9 THROUGH 11 radically altered my perspective… and (oddly?) Acts 17 (Paul’s sermon at the Areopagus) - How could what he proclaimed there be deeply compatible with a consistent Calvinism? e.g. God is NOT far from any of us; in Him we live and move and have our being; we are ALL His offspring (children)! This led to a deeper dive into Paul’s “Adam Christology” - so that I could finally accept precisely what he says in Romans 5: Christ as the last Adam will do no less to save all than Adam did to bring condemnation to all… Jan Bonda’s (Dutch Calvinist) book The One Purpose of God did so much to illuminate the truly Good News of Romans 9-11, Ephesians 1 and Colossians 1 - God’s purpose in Christ to reunite and reconcile ALL things… May God continue to bless your wonderful ministry!

[@jorgemoreno5007]

Hi Pastor. How would you say is a best way to approach the leadership of my hyper-Calvinist church about my total disbelief in the TULIP system?

[@MrHwaynefair]

@@jorgemoreno5007 Wow - that would be quite a challenge…. Frankly you would probably be dismissed as one who simply doesn’t understand the “system”. If you’re really led to express your “concern” do so with a spirit of humility- open to correction… I’d invite you to view my channel and my series on why I left Calvinism… Finally- I’d prepare to prayerfully seek out another fellowship more in line with your beliefs. I will pray our Father gives you Wisdom which is pure and peaceful ❤️

[@stacyclark5910]

Just to weigh-in so to speak, I believe in what is commonly called the doctrines of grace, or the sovereignty of God… I have truly never even have read anything by John Calvin, so even though others would categorize me as a Calvinist, I don’t honestly regard myself as one. It seems to be such a dirty & hated term amongst many! I have not been presented with convincing scripture based evidence to convince me otherwise. I’m not at all seeking to change anyone’s mind or convictions, just letting anyone who is reading that I for one would evidently be considered a dissenter in this group. I very truly wish each of you the very best & have nothing but love as for a brother or sister for each & everyone of you! I appreciate the opportunity to discuss openly our commonly held love for our Lord & our God. For a much more enriching & transforming topic of scripture, look further into Christology & the preincarnate appearances of Jesus the Messiah in the Old Testament! Peace, Love & the Comfort of God to you! ❤

[@jameschappell-ih4cw]

@@stacyclark5910Do you agree that some infants are doomed to hell from the womb and, if not, what scripture do you use to support the belief that infants are not included in what Calvin’s called the “terrible decree”? If you do think it is so that infants are damned, how do you feel about it? Is it deserved? Do they deserve to suffer eternal torment without knowing what they did(n’t) do or would have done? I have seen Calvinists say infants deserve this and even that God is still wonderful when doing this. My point is, when you look at scripture, do you stop to think that there are different interpretations and that, if one makes God appear all powerful to the exclusion of love, then that interpretation must be he wrong one? Even as a non-believer, I was taught by my elders and preachers that God loved me. Were they wrong to say that? What should they have said? I just cannot wrap my head around it. Calvinism is a paradox - a system of logic that is logic proof. Listen to people like Matt Slick. My head spins when I see how the Calvinist system has twisted him into a bitter man whose nay concern seems to be to get to heaven.

[@gilberttipton5407]

Read and study the Canons of Dort@@jorgemoreno5007

[@gracemercywrath8767]

Great episode! Keep up the hard work of sharing the love of God for all people desiring that none should perish but all come to repentance.

[@sarahherzog7422]

Loved listening to this, it’s so interesting how we all seem to have a run in with Calvinism and God used it to challenge us in different ways. How your friend mentioned that it “rock her world” was a great way to put it. It made me get more serious about what I believed. Showed me once again how he really does work all things out for good. But the thing that still gets to me is how so many people are deceived by it and a lot of them don’t even call it Calvinism or would say they are not a calvinist but still believe the same way.

[@elaineauo]

Woohoo! Loved the video! How beautiful to see how the Lord to use your friend Loni. Her obedience is what the Lord has used to spread truth to so so many people world wide through your channel. Isn’t that amazing! I love seeing people break free from the deception of Calvinism. All praise to God!

[@amandataylor1843]

I identified so much with what Loni was saying! Struggling with my own sin and struggling with God determining it…. It was so good to hear someone expressing the same struggle.

[@anise3564]

Even though this was long, I actually take comfort in how long it was. I am comforted to hear other woman really thinking and digging through God’s word and it’s comforting to see you have each other.

[@darrennelson5855]

Nicely done, ladies! Get the word out! Calvinism is a blinding doctrine that needs to be exposed! Many blessings.

[@BEABEREAN10]

This is so helpful! A few points! #1 Calvinistic/deterministic thinking is so self centered - a friend of mine who introduced me to the idea says he beleives God caused his friends mother to commit suXcide because as a result of that happening, it drew himself closer to God and away from his sins. He sees nothing wrong with this view because he beleives God is controlling everything that happens for his divine reasonings. I spent 2 hours talking to him one night about the topic and he admitted that the reason why he believes in total determinism is because it is comforting knowing that every circumstance and evil has a purpose in life and therefore it allows him to see beauty in everything. So basically it appeals to his senses and feelings and then is backed up by eisegesis. I love the brother and know he is saved AND he loves to study the word... but it's not a faithful viewpoint. #2 Over the last 2 years since I discovered Calvinsm was a thing, seeking the true and false of it has driven me closer to the Lord and recognizing his glory, Majesty and sovreignty and how that is shown in a greater measure BECAUSE we have free will. Thank you for this and keep spreading the truth of the gospel that Jesus died for all!

[@marialamb6781]

@1:05...... exactly my thoughts also. They are speaking against God's character. They are seeing God a certain way. And they are insisting that he is that way. But what we read in the Bible doesn't reflect that. Somebody is incorrect. Believers have a responsibility to correctly portray Gods character. And it is clearly defined in scripture. That's the thing! What Calvinism preaches is very religious and feels like Jehovah witness. It feels like Mormonism and others..... all these other CULT type religions that are exclusive in their teaching about how to get to heaven. I do not understand how the Calvinist person who has the Holy Spirit God abiding in them cannot see that, does not see that. We are called to admonish our brothers and sisters. they are our brothers and sisters and we are told to admonish ----- Come Let us reason together. Let us look at the Scriptures. They should be receptive. They are not. And that is not good. .

[@truth7416]

@@marialamb6781 5-Point Calvinists are a cancer demanding that they be accepted as Christians. I do not. I mark them, as we are told to expose false teachers preaching another gospel to what Paul preached. True full blown Calvinists are not even saved let alone Christians. Christians are Christians! Calvinists are Calvinists! Mormons are Mormons! Calvinists believe god created all things, and controls all things, predetermined all things, and made all things exactly the way they are. ... thus god also created evil. therefore since Calvinists believe god created evil. they are blaspheming against the holy spirit ... the only unforgivable sin. Calvinists also believe the only people who will be saved have been predetermined by god. and since Calvinists believe god predetermined who will be saved ... they have removed free will - the gift of god to humans, and removed Jesus from the equation. since god (according to Calvinists) has already determined who will be saved ... (and who will not be saved) ... those who will be saved do not need Christ and those who will not be saved cannot come to christ. thus Calvinists are not Christians. Yet if they are still breathing and have a heart beat they can turn to Christ and he will forgive them. A fool says in his heart that he is wise. A fool is seen for what they are by those with discernment. Truth in Love

[@elaineauo]

Man. So sad. I fear there will come a day when he realizes “wasn’t there another less traumatic and evil way God could have drawn me without MAKING my mother kill herself?! After all, He could have determined that as well, right? But now me and my family having to deal with the trauma from this?” And that is where many many people begin to struggle. But it’s only because they started off with a horribly false presupposition that God does / plans evil… even after the Bible says that evil is separate from Him, that He doesn’t even tempt people to do evil, talk less to MAKE them… or where He says the evil some wicked people did did NOT EVEN CROSS HIS MIND, talk less to decree or ordain it! Because there is an enormous profound difference, especially as living, thinking, logical, and emotional beings that God created us to be… to say that God DETERMINED and planned this wicked evil thing to happen TO ME… versus God working even the wicked things that happen to us for His good! WORLD of difference. And it matters. Plus, it maligns the character of our good and holy God revealed in Scripture.

[@BEABEREAN10]

@@elaineauo worse is that it wasn't even his own mother....it was a friends mother who did it. So he didn't have any personal trauma to deal with after the fact but that family did...

[@jameschappell-ih4cw]

Wow that hung about his mother is terrible!

[@allisacorfman61]

Thank you so much for sharing this. I can relate so much. I lost a friend and teammate when we were 16. She died in a car accident on the way to practice. I had grown up in the Great Commission Association of churches. I was tormented by the fact that I had not talked to my friend about Jesus. At a conference, one of the highly revered leaders in our association gave a sermon on sharing the gospel. He said “What if you’re the only Jesus someone will ever meet?” And things like, “You’re not promised tomorrow. You don’t know if that friend, that coworker will die without knowing Jesus if you don’t share the gospel today” Afterwards, I sought him out and asked him how God could send a good person to hell forever just for not having the right information. He answered “if people go to hell, whose fault is that?” That rocked me to my core. He couldn’t have known I was already thinking about my dead friend. I began to live so guilt ridden because of never having shared the gospel with her. So when I started to hear about God choosing people from the foundation of the world, initially it felt like a relief. I could shed the guilt and shame of this if I just believed that it was all ordained and there was nothing I could have done about it anyway. Not even really knowing the title “Calvinist” I went towards that idea just so I could breathe. But over the next few years, it bred a nihilism in me that ran so deep that I began to have scary thoughts every night. I’d lie in bed awake, quite literally shaking in fear of being one of the “not chosen” because for some reason, if some were chosen and some weren’t, I couldn’t see myself as one of the chosen.

[@mariebo7491]

That was amazing. Thank you both so much for sharing this. I could've kept listening for hours! Lol. I grew up Church of God and I went through a very similar experience as her. Except it was coming from my husband and all my friends! Suddenly everyone was going reformed, except for me, and it was definitely because our church (a mega church here in Florida) also did not teach the Bible. I went years through that torment and uncertainty and even questioned my salvation. I started studying Romans and checking all the cross references and read the whole OT and I did not see Calvinism anywhere. I came across Alana and Leighton Flowers and it was like hearing the gospel anew. The burden that was lifted, literally wept in relief, and the peace I finally had and have speaks volumes about the lies of Calvinism.

[@JulietManx]

What a loving friend and look at the fruit of her reaching out to you x

[@katieowen4676]

This is VERY similar to what happened to me! I would love to share with this lady personally one day. I am so happy to be watching this

[@marialamb6781]

I was only in it for one year. And it was an extremely distressing time for me. And I had the same exact feelings. At first I was like oh God has chosen me. But then the next thought was but wait a minute what about my agnostic son? And so I prayed, and I said to the Lord, "if this is of you help me to accept it. I don't like it. I don't want it to be this way. If it's of you help me to accept it." Instead, God Delivered Me out of it, and I was so happy again, and I prayed, "oh, thank you thank you thank you. I'm so glad that you love everybody and everybody can have the opportunity to come to Jesus because you draw ALL MEN just like the Bible says."

[@jordandthornburg]

Amen, that’s beautiful

[@MrsM74]

Alana, we are also doing home church, learning and healing, because we can't find a local nonCalvinist, noncharasmatic church to fellowship with in the area. My husband is a pastor who knows all the questions to ask church leadership to sift out their true beliefs. I hate to say we were straight out lied to many times, but what the leaders communicated to my husband was different from what is acutually taught in both sneaky and blatant ways. We also have very few to fellowship with because people just abandon us for seeking balance in the Word, no extremes, and gospel related truth is too important to compromise. Thanks for the video

[@nervestriker5798]

Then you have no idea what it's like to be a Seventh-day Adventist. I used to be a Dutch Reformed Calvinist. In the same way all these people lied to you, and to me, they also lie to you about the 7th day Sabbath. Did you know that ALL these proud Calvinist preachers (and many other Sunday denominations) were invited by Seventh-day Adventist pastors, Evangelists and theologians to debate or to discuss or to study together to see where Adventists are getting it wrong? ALL HAVE DECLINED, yet they won't hesitate to be pulpit warriors or microphone trolls accusing 7th day Sabbath keepers of being a cult.... I REPEAT: YOU'RE BEING LIED TO IN THE SAME WAY YOU'RE BEING LIED TO ABOUT MANY THEOLOGICAL ISSUES. Do you know how many Sunday pastors have secretly and privately disclosed to Adventists that they KNOW the 7th day Sabbath is still as valid as before the cross, but that they fear the consequences if they open their mouth? You think they can hide from God? If Adventists are a cult, bring your pastor and we debate RIGHT HERE IN THIS THREAD and you can make an informed decision about Sabbath vs Sunday. Sounds good?

[@mitchielou9622]

@sunny794 we can relate so much to your comment! We had to leave a church we were at for 14 years because the senior pastor no longer answered to anyone and things were exposed. We went to a church closer to home for a few months and discovered through a Bible study they were doing, that they were Calvinist. The crazy thing was they denied being Calvinist all the while teaching the “doctrines of grace.” They were not open to dialogue about it. So, we left there. I know the Lord will lead you both to the right place!

[@yam153]

Thank you Lord for bringing your daughters out of darkness and deception. Thank you for sharing!

[@josephhaurik2652]

Someone tell JM that there are two "wistful girls" who "should probably just keep their opinions to themselves".

[@RonaldM992000]

MacArthur is demonic. So is Sproul. So is Washer, etc..

[@sweethometreasures]

Beautiful conversation. Thank you Lonnie, for being so real about the turmoil you went through as you processed Calvinism.

[@teresawhite791]

I really enjoyed the testimonies here. When I would listen to Alana’s videos years ago and learned she was a Calvinist, i would pray that the Lord would show her His truth. My prayers were answered… and I am so thankful that He used a friend like Loni to witness these truths. Alana is one of the most sincere young wife and mother that I listen to. I love her love for the Lord and desire to please Him in every area of her life. I am an older woman but yet I have learned many things from her over the years. May the Lord bless u both!

[@oilofgladness3474]

Y’all should write a book together. Very good and insightful. There are so many thousands of people out there today that are carrying the heavy burden on Calvinism.

[@BrandonShowalter]

This was such a wonderful conversation. Thanks to both of you for this exchange. It's a healing balm for so many. I never embraced hyper-Calvinism but have seen how it has crushed people under its weight and locked them in a mental prison. The way you all unpacked the layers is going to help a lot of people, I know it.

[@Ramsrule9975]

Every time she would say I was so confused. I was reminded by the passage that says: God is not a God of confusion

[@mitchielou9622]

Thank you both for sharing this. You both are a blessing!

[@ninamom1008]

I feel it is a bait and switch. I had Calvinism sneak in through those who I listened to and friends around me. I didn't know what they were believing and we would have discussions and some of the things they would say bothered me but I thought they knew what they were talking about. Then I really started paying attention and realizing that these things they were talking about came out of Calvinism. When there are so many people around you who believe in this, it takes a while to get back to your own reasoning and thinking skills and be comfortable in them in your studies.

[@truth7416]

It's "The Wide Road" to destruction and many find Calvinism! Truth in Love

[@bridgetgolubinski]

1:03:55 This is such a big deal! So grateful for your heart in this issue

[@Daughter_of_the_King316]

Alana and Loni- thank you! And you made alot of sense. Also, when you said that about the calvinist church teaches well with expository sermons. It's so what I desire in a church!

[@mikelyons2831]

Thank you Sisters. For others to consider. JMac, Washer, Piper/most Calvinists: "Man is so totally depraved, he can't & won't seek God he is unwilling & incapable" Nicodemus hunts down Jesus for a 1 on 1. Zacheus runs ahead, climbs a tree to see Jesus. Ethiopian Treasurer acquires a copy of Isaiah & reads it. Cornelius prays, gives alms, his "I know you exsist God" is rewarded. Bereans searched the scriptures. Lydia attends a prayer meeting then listens to Paul. "Sir, we want to see Jesus" (John 12:21) Read John 12:32 & 16:8 Acts 17:26-31 Revelation 22:17

[@billgraham9659]

Great job both of you. Thanks for sharing.

[@thomasfryxelius5526]

I just want to confirm what your friend described. I have a father that believed all things were determined by God, and around 25 while studying theology I really started to think it may be true. It was really hard to imagine. I have unbelieving friends that I love dearly and at the time, even a unbelieving sibling. Even to imagine that God did not love them, that the reason they did not believe was that He was witholding His grace and not giving them faith, was such a dark thought. Our faith and trust in God is built on His steadfast love and kindness. To imagine Him as indifferent to people I care about was horrible. To imagine Him decreeing all sin and evil in the world was also horrible. I´m so happy that I´ve found this not to be true or biblical.

[@jalvarez5335]

You know I agree!!! It reminds me the good Samaritan parable the scribe and the priest ignored that Israelite but the good Samaritan took action, the L on TULIP scheme sounds like the priest and the scribe they just ignored that poor man

[@jchen2873]

Is it kind of “man” centered?

[@thomasfryxelius5526]

@@jchen2873 What are you refering to? Calvinism or my post? I'm not sure how to understand your comment...

[@thomasfryxelius5526]

@@rwdchannel2901 Hello there! Hope you are well. About Acts 16:6 my explanation is that God probably has very good reasons for doing what He does. But we cannot assume this is because He has no care for Asia. We know He loves the world, and that He wants all to be saved. But Paul is a man, he cannot go everywhere at once, and God wanted Him in Macedonia at that time. There is no indication that this is a rejection of Asia on God´s part. "God did choose those people not to hear the Gospel and chose for those in Macedonia to hear the Gospel." I think you are reading into the text a bit here. Just because Paul didn´t go there does not mean the Gospel didn´t go there. There are other apostles and other believers as well, we know of many churches that were started by believing jews that came back after Pentecost for example. We all have a part to play in the Great Commision, and God knows where Paul was most needed. In Acts 22 God warns Paul that the jews would not accept his teaching and that he had to leave (probably for his own safety) Think about this scenario if calvinism was true; God would then have determined these people to reject Paul, and then God has to warn Paul about the danger that God has planned for them to pose to Paul. I think it makes no sense on calvinism. Instead God is simply all knowing, He knows these rebellious people would hurt Paul if he stayed and so God sends Paul to the Gentiles who will listen to the Gospel. Notice also that the jews had already heard the Gospel from the other apostles. That´s my thoughts, what do you think about it?

[@rob5462]

It's a tragedy that churches with a heritage of refuting the errors of Calvinism are not teaching and decipling their members. Wesley was very very clear and dogmatically opposed to these errors. “Manifestly does Calvinism tend to overthrow the whole Christian Revelation by making it contradict itself. This doctrine is a doctrine full of blasphemy.” (John Wesley) “Calvinism destroys all God’s attributes at once: it overturns his justice, mercy, and truth; yea, it represents the most holy God as worse than the devil, more false, more cruel, and more unjust.” (John Wesley)

[@Jelda957]

Thanks so much for sharing! Such an encouragement. I grew up in church and believed at a young age, but didn’t encounter Calvinism till college. I too found it very shocking…the determinism and that it essentially claims that God is both the God of Good and Evil. It was a very spiritually dark and confusing time. Praise God, he set me free and I was able to find joy in Him and His Word again.

[@shannongrant7933]

Lonnie’s story IS MY STORY except I’m in the current phase of torment. I have engulfed myself in finding the truth. If Calvinism is true then I want that. But also if Calvinism is true then I don’t think I can be a christian any longer. I am reading books, scripture, listening to podcasts, watching KZbin videos. My soul is in a state of unrest. I am in a very very dark place right now. I so wish I could speak to you ladies. I cannot reconcile this by myself.

[@AlanaL3]

I am so sorry to hear this sister. May I advise you to turn everything off except the scriptures? Go to the Lord, allow the Holy Spirit to lead you and guide you and teach you in all truth. Get rid of the books turn off the podcasts turn off the KZbin videos unless they are testimonials of people coming out of Calvinism to help you see that the things you are facing and the questions you have are not crazy. Read the scriptures. The Lord will guide you.

[@SheepDog1974]

Seek the Lord, He will guide you through the scripture.

[@bridgetgolubinski]

1:08:20 That was so true of me when I came out of Calvinism! Totally new understanding of the love of God!!

[@Iwant2besuccessful]

I have been blessed by your channel...thank you...

[@marialamb6781]

Around @36:00...... when you were talking about, God decreeing everything. This is how God works with me in my mind. It just hit me. Wait a minute I'm thinking, how can God have decreed evil and Jesus has died, and we read in the Old Testament by his stripes we are healed, present tense. And healed can mean body, mind, soul and spirit. So you are not required to endure any kind of abuse unless it's because you are a Christian and it's persecution. That's different. But sickness and body, wow. Wow wow wow This just now hit me 💁🏻‍♀️🤔 what did Jesus die to take care of if God is going to go around decreeing evil to happen? Oh my goodness! I would love to hear the silly Calvinist response to that !!

[@blossomcherry2650]

Please turn on subtitles😭🙏💞

[@theidolbabblerthedailydose33]

Wow, what a great conversation. I also went the “reformed” route for about 15 years because I was intellectually starved in the first church that I attended (I became a Christian at age 33). The same cast of characters (Sproul, Johnny Mac, Voddie, Washer, etc.) became a very satisfying path, even though deep down something bothered me. Multiple factors got me out of being reformed. Learning Anabaptist history was really eye opening. That led me to recognize how I had lost my zeal to tell people that God loved them. I am a tract giver (I even make my own). I love to share the Gospel, but my approach became more and more hardened from how I originally went about it when I first became a Christian. Another interesting “ah ha” moment was seeing that almost all well known reformed greats were never baptized as believers. Only as infants. Also, being part of credo-baptist churches, that meant that none of these reformed greats were qualified to even be members of a credo-baptist church, nor less be qualified to teach. So, I had to question why reformed teachers were so often used as a resource for Sunday school and Bible lessons and sermons. All these things (and others) were eventually used by God to get me out of the reformed world of Christianity. Blessings…

[@bridgetgolubinski]

19:01 That was something I thought when I was a calvinist too!

[@suzanneheincreations]

God is not a respecter of persons. God is love. For God so loved the world.

[@AmazingGrace8585]

Such a great episode. I too have noticed that very few people are willing to say how serious this belief system is. Please help me to understand if I am wrong Lord forgive me. But doesn’t God care what we believe about His character. If we are to have a genuine relationship wouldn’t that require that we really know Him. I had never heard of TULIP til a year ago. I found out a good friend is a Calvinist and it is very difficult to fellowship around the goodness of God. There is so much sin consciousness and talk of wrath and sovereignty. It grieves my spirit and seems so dark. God supernaturally delivered me from alcohol and many other things over 35 years ago. It happened when I decided to read the Bible with only the leading of the Holy Spirit and a desire for truth. God is so good and I feel this is very dangerous spiritually to believe these doctrines. There seems to be the form of godliness yet denying the power of God. I can’t imagine God being ok with Jesus dying for the whole world and yet people saying He only died for some. Not to mention that He is behind all the demonic horrific things going on. I’m open to any thoughts about this. God bless you both. Alana please keep up the good work. You are a blessing and I love your loving spirit. You both are an inspiration.

[@marthabarletta1866]

I like what someone else said, "For all heresies see Augustine." For further elaboration and refinement of heresies, see Calvin.

[@RNLWW]

It’s all Augustine’s ideas 400 years after Christ, based on Aug’s Gnosticism, Stoicism, and mysticism. If we can get that word out and get people to think about the roots of their beliefs, I hope it will fall like a house of cards.

[@lindsaysimplified]

“If Calvinism is true then I can’t be a Christian anymore.” Nothing has resonated so much with me. That’s where I am right now.

[@AlanaL3]

Well it’s not true so you’re good! 😅 Seek sister. The Lord will show you His heart.

[@shannonhammond9382]

Love you ladies! Great chat!

[@betharnold2125]

You girls are right on! So much confirmation of what Jesus, Holy Spirit has been saying to me. I have never fully embraced Calvinism but having people in my family who do. It’s been a struggle because I don’t want to hear all the Calvinist they follow.

[@ronmcbride986]

I had an online dialogue with James White some years ago. I brought up the problem of God's encounter with Cain and how it refutes what Calvinism teaches. Of course he refused to acknowledge this. He was very dismissive and rude.

[@truth7416]

Alana You really really need to encourage and help Lany (not sure how to spell her name) to start her own youtube teaching channel to help Calvinists out of their deception. I recognize in her the same spirit of teaching you have. Her testimony and wisdom is very powerful and could be soooo effective! Truth in Love

[@JulietManx]

Wise women winning souls x

[@cecilspurlockjr.9421]

You're absolutely correct sis . The bible is the best source there is to disprove calvinism . Good job , young ladies . GOD bless yaw .

[@SpanisGuitarBest]

Joh 3:19 And this is the judgment, that the light is come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil. Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, and cometh not to the light, lest his works should be reproved. Joh 3:21 But he that doeth the truth cometh to the light, that his works may be made manifest, that they have been wrought in God.

[@leanagonzalez467]

I understood God’s election of the nation of Israel through a Jewish Messianic Professor’s lecture and that changed everything. But, we must realize how much learning has been done for us. We need to learn to go to scripture and study them soundly.

[@truth7416]

Such a powerful testimony ! Resist the Devil's Calvinism and he will flee! At it's core Calvinism is the flaming arrows that Satan comes to every believer to do exactly what you almost succumbed to! What kind of so called true christian religion as "Calvinism" would attempt to destroy ones faith? To cause one who DOES have faith to even for a minute consider rejecting the God they believe in! ALL CALVINISTS WHO TEACH their heresy are guilty of the following warning. “If anyone causes one of these little ones-those who believe in me-to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. 7Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come! Matthew 18 6-7 I completely relate to your guest. My story as well. My spirit screamed within me as well when I realized the very church and almost every member said Calvinism was true. The Holy Spirit would not let me rest until I could beat this devilish doctrine of demons into the sewer from where it came. (30 years and counting) Truth in Love

[@AgenticAIRobot]

What is your interpretation of Jeremiah 1:4, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations."

[@AlanaL3]

Exactly what it says. God set Jeremiah apart before He formed him in the womb to be a prophet to the nations:)

[@mrskhan597]

Hey Alana. You are looking very beautiful. Those orange flowers in background and the warm light falling on your face, just perfect! Loni has a beautiful smile. God bless you ladies

[@crazyleaf257]

Love that! I've made friends over the Internet

[@rajnandantorontostreets3329]

Awesome friend

[@jorgemoreno5007]

Hi Alana. How did you go about speaking to the leadership of your former church about your doubts on Calvsnism?

[@AlanaL3]

We just met with them and shared about what we had been going through. :)

[@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT]

18:19... Alana, another a great video👍👍 Please reconsider the term "deconstruction". I believe the more accurate one is 'de-conversion' regarding Calvinist's leaving TULIP and Christianity as well. I.e., Tyler Vela, Paul Maxwell, Megan Phelp, Derek Webb, Joshua Harris, etc. I don't think "Deconstruction" is the same thing. Actually, there is a great book by a former Calvinist "Deconstructing Calvinism" by Hutson Smelly who also has an interesting angle because of his background and education. HUTSON SMELLEY is an attorney, Bible teacher and seminary student residing in Houston, Texas with his wife and seven children. He has a degree in Biblical Studies from the College of Biblical Studies, a B.S. in Mathematics from the University of Houston, a M.S. in Mathematics from Texas A&M University, and a J.D. from the University of Houston. The conclusions that Calvinism is wrong are the same but his approach is unique and interesting.

[@pylang3803]

I'm so glad Alana has come so far. Just open the Book. It's got all you need to know :)

[@samanthagraveswalters8443]

I love that you encourage those to Go to the Bible But we still need to use Bible dictionaries and do some background culture study to get the context of scripture

[@DavidWilliams-cm4ow]

When you read the Bible cover to cover, Calvinism does not naturally occur to you. It is not congruent with ancient Hebrew and early Christian thought.

[@huskypapi5081]

I can’t find the verse that your friend says about you wicked people carried out a plan, but not mine? Where’s that verse?

[@lahnijones4109]

“Ah, stubborn children,” declares the LORD, “who carry out a plan, but not mine, and who make an alliance, but not of my Spirit, that they may add sin to sin…” Isaiah 30:1 ESV

[@huskypapi5081]

@@lahnijones4109 wow that’s fire in tears reading that verse and reading the chapter. Thank you!

[@truthtransistorradio6716]

For a long time, I was in the middle on this debate. Then I shifted towards Provisionism once I heard those arguments on Romans 9 and other Calvinist proof texts. I thought these were secondary issues for awhile, but recently, I have considered the possibility that if Calvinism is wrong, it is a doctrine of devils! Not saying Calvinists are evil. I believe they are well meaning, but deceived! But the implications of Calvinism makes God look evil! Punishing people that He decreed to reject Him? Terrible!

[@Jenn_Psalm25.4-7]

I became a Christian July 2021. I only knew of Calvinism because of the prominence of Calvinists online. Once I found out WHAT Calvinists believed, I was distraught! I thought "this makes God sadistic" and then I felt BAD for THINKING that!!! My suggestion to everyone is READ YOUR BIBLE. I had already read the Bible (all if not most of it by then) and figured out the Calvinism totally contradicted the God who revealed Himself to me through HIS WORD. Thankfully, after constantly praying for the Holy Spirit's wisdom and discernment, I have totally rejected ALL Calvinists. I will not share ANY quotes from any Calvinists, no matter how great they are so I never lead someone to that teacher. If I know you're a Calvinist Pastor/teacher, I won't subject myself to your folly. Now, AS a new Christian.....I still wonder and can't understand WHY this isn't HERESY?! Just as you claimed sister, the God you came to know was not the God you were shown via Calvinism. So it makes me as a new believer wonder why on earth this is even accepted in the Body of Christ? He's NOT the same GOD...Jesus isn't the same Savior of ALL.....so just because they believe in the "core" beliefs, that makes them Christian? Can someone explain this to me? I'm having a really hard time with the body accepting this blatant disgrace of God's character as Christian. I follow a few people who call this out as "Unbiblical" yet nobody wants to address the elephant in the room and flat out call this heresy! The theology (if it's even theology) came from gnosticism for crying out loud!!!! And don't get me started on the other teachings rampant in the Western Church.....Pre-trib (not in the bible AT ALL) and OSAS.....no wonder we aren't Unified. I'm having a terrible time finding a church that's not teaching these false doctrines and leading their flocks to ultimate apostasy in these end times. Sorry for my rant....but as a new believer, I've been disappointed in the church so far. LOVE CHRIST and am ON FIRE for Him but trying to find a local congregation who's on fire too isn't easy at all :(

[@Jenn_Psalm25.4-7]

@@jessew7777 understood...thanks for the words.....that makes sense. It's hard for me as a new Christian because it's confusing why it's so widely accepted when it causes so many issues. Plus they aren't all honest about this belief system so to me, that's lying.

[@TheSupercuber]

I recommend studying with Shepherd's Chapel. Arnold and Dennis Murray are fantastic. I studied independently too and my learning and understanding was in agreement with what they were teaching.

[@gilberttipton5407]

Alana have you ever studied the Canons of Dort?

[@AlanaL3]

I’m glad you’re asking questions now:) thank you. So much more respectful not to assume. Yes, but it’s been many years. Not sure how they matter when scripture is my guide

[@gilberttipton5407]

I believe that part of making sure of our calling and election is to be a member in good standing of a true church. Rom 10 tells us that the means by which God calls men to salvation in Christ is the preached Word. He sends these preachers through true churches. Rom 10:14-21; Gal 4:26-31. I asked you elsewhere if you are a member of a true church. Are you?@@AlanaL3

[@AlanaL3]

@@gilberttipton5407 I’m a member of the church.

[@nr1785]

Nothing like lying on a hospital bed extremely sick from chemotherapy, no visitors, isolated in a room and having a Calvinist text you a Spurgeon meme saying how what you’re going through now is God punishing you for sin and refining you. Basically being told it’s God that’s making you suffer so much.

[@AlanaL3]

Seriously. Yuck

[@crazyleaf257]

BALANCE!! YES in everything

[@danparks8290]

Which is better, for evil to have been intended for good, such as in the case of Joseph, or for evil to have "just happened"? I'm not a Calvinist but to deny God's hand in suffering can cause people much more harm than good. I for one am glad that everything "bad" that's happened in my life was Plan A and for a reason.

[@AlanaL3]

Definitely not denying that the Lord allows suffering, but denying that God causes all suffering.

[@danparks8290]

@@AlanaL3 Which suffering does he not cause?

[@AlanaL3]

@@danparks8290 abortion?

[@danparks8290]

@@AlanaL3 So God can "mean" that a young man is sold into slavery by his brothers, as in the case of Joseph, and he can put it in the hearts of kings to give their power to the most evil man who will ever live, who will likely kill the most Christians ever (Rev. 17:17) but he doesn't intend that one unborn child be killed? You don't have to answer that unless you want to, just something to think about.

[@AlanaL3]

@@danparks8290 it’s not that I want to or I don’t want to its that I don’t have time for this kind of conversation anymore in my life. I think it’s a waste of time at this point in my life, but I know there are many others that would love to go on and on with you about it in the comments. :-) if we were face-to-face it would be a different story, but I can’t right now. I’m vacuuming my house. This is not the reason I am on KZbin. This is the reason I am not on Facebook.

[@crazyleaf257]

Wow Calvinism is way more demonic than I realized

[@RNLWW]

Agreed! How can it not be a primary issue?? It is THE Gospel, how God has chosen to save people. What IS a primary issue then? In addition, it’s the CHARACTER of God, His reputation! Finally, why did God reveal 66 books to man if most of it is not primary?

[@fromemily9289]

Thank you for this discussion. I can relate with Lonnie's testimony - struggling with learning the facts about Calvinism. I was so confused and emotional. I just couldn't reconcile their beliefs to what I believed the Bible taught. Not long ago, we were in the process of attending a church membership class at a new church -- When we learned more of their views I asked if they were reformed. They said reformed with a little "r". We raised more questions and were told we just don't understand. We're so thankful we had some knowledge of Calvinism. We had no clue they were this way. Nothing at all on their website. But, we did start to question some things before we went to the membership class. We did love the worship time and the pastor was a good teacher. I do have family that attends there and it makes me sad not to be in church with them. We're still struggling looking for a good, sound, and reverent church.

[@josiahgil]

I believe the calvinists that are saved, are inconsistent, meaning they don't live their live's to the logical end of calvinism, they actually care about people, but don't see the inconsistency within their canvinism.

[@willwidrick8039]

I’ve had several conversations with Calvinist brothers, pointing out concerns, I’ve even gone through Romans 9 with one. Ultimately I’m getting the idea that Calvinism is a exclusive elite club, and certain people like being in it for whatever reason. Among certain circles it’s the hot thing to be in, and if you’re not then you’re missing out. So it seems like it’s a popular social club. To me that’s a red flag, something is majorly wrong here. Our focus should always be what does scripture say, what is God’s character like and our relationship with Him.

[@AlanaL3]

I can attest to that being exactly what it is. I was in it I loved it and I was in the in group until I opposed it now I am totally rejected by all.

[@willwidrick8039]

@@AlanaL3 Sorry, that has to be a difficult. I just hope all of us, Calvinist & non-calvinist go back to the basic of God's word. Thanks for the video.

[@nervestriker5798]

There's a social club far bigger than Calvinism. It's Sunday Paganism. If you and Alana are as committed to truth and obedience to God, you'd be keeping the true Sabbath, the 7th day Saturday Sabbath. You're following the tradition of Catholicism

[@AlanaL3]

@@nervestriker5798 I’m sorry but you’re following the old covenant. Jesus brought a NEW command: to love. The old covalent is fulfilled in Christ and the new is love. Find freedom in grace brother

[@nervestriker5798]

@Alana Be careful you don't do to me what you did to the friend that led you out of Calvinist bondage: 1) Calvinist arguments vs Sunday buzz words such as love, fulfilled, grace, old/new Covenant 2) in same way you said in your heart about your friend, aaw... this girl just doesn't get it, you're now telling me I just don't get it, right? I should find freedom in grace? Why would I need grace if the law was nailed to the cross? Didn't Paul write there's no grace where there's no law? How can there be no sin if there's no law? 1 John 3:4 defines sin as the transgression of the law. So if there's no law, there's no sin. If there's no sin, why would I need grace? You wanna talk freedom? John wrote that the truth make us free. Both Old and New Testament defines truth as the commandments of God Psalms 119:142b and 1 John 2:4. So in fact what makes us free is keeping the ten commandments if the definition for truth is the commandments. 1 John 3:4 defines sin as the transgression of the law. So how can you tell people to not sin (transgression of the law) if you believe the law was nailed to the cross? When you're telling people to not sin, you're telling them not to transgress the law all the while you believe the law was nailed to the cross. How is this not contradicting YOURSELF? If Jesus doesn't change and if truth is a constant and if truth is defined as the commandments in BOTH OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS, please explain why the Sabbath is not part of the definition in both Old and New Testament?

[@ransche1]

I believe that Calvinism should be a secondary issue, but when these teachers elevate this theology to the point of being in sin or not even saved by not believing, then they are the ones that attacking first. They are effectively preaching another gospel. This makes it now an essential issue. The same goes for any theology within accepted Christianity. Dispensationalists often do this. Charismatics do this with the health and wealth gospel, or speaking in tongues as the evidence of salvation. Even those that teach that you can lose your salvation enter into some strange ideas.

[@lahnijones4109]

This is a good clarification. When I say it should be “primary” I mean that it is “essential”. It’s hard for me to put it in the “secondary” category because it has far worse implications than other secondary issues, including believers leaving the faith or being opposed to the faith altogether. It’s in a category all its own, but is definitely more primary and essential than its often made to be.

[@ransche1]

@@lahnijones4109 I agree with you. I went to a dispensational church for many years, and the topic of dispensations hardly ever came up. That is the way I would prefer it, if Calvinists believed what they believed and did not evangelize it. Because it’s so prevalent and taught by high profile preachers it goes unnoticed how strange it really is.

[@ransche1]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/r6DVeKabmM2tqKs For me this video is equivalent to me not being able to keep my tongue off of a toothache.

[@ransche1]

@@lahnijones4109 but I do agree with you that it has been made a primary issue for us because of how they have elevated it. In a sense they are the ones that have declared war on the pure teaching of the Bible. They sound just like a cult. They get angry and judgmental. They often call those that do not hold to their system as unsaved or in sin. And strangely, as conservative as they are, they sound like the overly sensitive woke left. They are proud and angry and as John MacArthur had expressed he would like others with differing opinions to keep quiet.

[@suzanneheincreations]

It can take months to hear the heresies a church believes, pastors can be so deceptive or deceived.

[@MyLearner1]

Does it ever seem unnatural to you that if you discover something in the Bible, you have to leave your relationships with the people who still believe the other way - or who don’t care about that line item? Isn’t this the body of Christ? Also, isn’t it a wee bit upside down for the supposed learners to be trying to find a place where the supposed leader preaches what they already believe? How is this arrangement not a bulwark against anybody really learning anything?

[@AlanaL3]

I agree. We may not ge able to stay under teaching we do not agree with but it is very sad that believers leave relationships for differences.

[@SladeMacGregor]

Alana L.....I have a question. Would Adam and Eve have gone to heaven if they did not eat the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil? The Garden of Eden is not Heaven because Satan is there as a serpent.

[@AlanaL3]

I don’t know! Lol 🤷🏻‍♀️ I think they were in Eden eating freely from the tree of life. That tree maybe kept them alive?

[@alspurgin]

Lynn says that there's a big difference between God decreeing something to happen and Him allowing it to happen, but I'm confused because I don't see a large difference between those two. If you saw a policeman who had the ability to stop a heinous crime, but said back and allowed it to happen, wouldn't you say that is wrong? How does God allowing sin and sickness and death to happen seem better than Him decreeing it?

[@Shark_fishing]

my concern is that most arguments against "calvinism" (which I don't really subscribe to the labeling)... usually begin with a standard for God's love and goodness (consider Leighton's book, "God is recognizably good")... and that these are the premise for all that God does, because ultimately creation's purpose is to receive God's love. God is certainly without a doubt good and absolutely loving. But these are not superior attributes to His justice and holiness. And creation is intended for His glory, not only our good. I firmly believe that when we approach the Bible with a "standard for God" (ie: God must act this way to be truly good, or the Bible must mean this because God is always loving) we create trouble for ourselves...... Is God good because he always does what we recognize as good? Or is God good because He, Himself, is the standard for goodness? We have to grapple with this question well because calvinist or not, the Bible presents major tensions that are not addressed in this video. Is the point of creation that we are always the object of God's love? Or is creation about the object of God's glory?

[@st.christopher1155]

Jesus said, “If you have seen me, you have seen the Father”. When you see Jesus, what do you see? ☦️🙏🏼📖

[@SavingSoulsMinistries]

I’m not a Calvinist, but I do believe God is totally sovereign… if he is totally sovereign than free will is an illusion. I believe in the Bible, every word Proverbs 16:4 4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. Ephesians 1:4-5 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, Romans 8:28-30 28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. Corinthians 3:6-9 King James Version 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. 8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. John 6:44 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 15:16 16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. Acts 13:48 48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. 1 Peter 1:2 2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. Galatians 1:15 15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb, and called me by his grace, Ephesians 1:11-12 11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. Matthew 22:14 14 For many are called, but few are chosen. Acts 2:23 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: Colossians 3:12 12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; Revelation 13:8 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Jeremiah 1:5 5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. Romans 8:33 33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth.

[@joshcarz]

Context context context

[@wenhari06]

If you think about it 1. God’s sovereignty does allow him to create out of His own free will a moral agent with free will 2. Without free will God is sovereignly and solely responsible for sin. Free will is the one thing that makes man truly culpable for his sin

[@theresaread72]

Elect just means choice, chosen. Israel was chosen to bless all the nations of the earth to bring the Word of God, bring forth Jesus. Ephesians 1 states 10 times In Him, In Christ will be Holy and Blameless. God is choosing those already in Him to be holy and blameless. We know that because Ephesians 1:13 says In Him you also trusted, after you heard the Word of truth, the Gospel of your salvation, in whom you believe. 1. Heard the Gospel 2.believed 3.trusted 4.sealed with the Holy Spirit of Promise 5.placed in Him John 6:44 The Father draws to the Son during Jesus ministry. John 12:32 Jesus will draw all men to himself after He, Jesus is lifted up.

[@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT]

@@theresaread72 🎯 It's ironic a 'non-Calvinist' posts all Calvinist proof texts and considers each one as only a Calvinist would... what are the odds? I guess they must be 'Reformed'.🤔

[@DPGBehler]

“I’m not a Calvinist.” Then immediately says something Calvinist and spams Calvinist prooftexts.

[@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT]

1:11:00... SO TRUE; Calvinists are constantly speaking in casual conversation "as if" they have free will. If you pay attention, it seems to never fail. BUT to violate a core belief like that always puzzles me. It is something I would never do. I would never say "accidentally" that I thought abortion was OK and be forced to correct myself as if I'd misspoken. Yet, on the issue of the freedom of man to make actual choices that matter, many, if not most, Calvinists do this quite often.... and HATE it when you point this out. When forced, they will admit the irony of their belief and try to find refuge, as Calvin himself did, in 'mystery'. But there is no refuge to be found. Most seem to constantly struggle to maintain balance within the 'tension' they've become so fond of. It seems that Calvinists are impervious to cognitive dissonance.... It's their Super Power. Scripture says the God made man in his own image. THAT matters. But Determinism ultimately teaches that man does NOT matter. However, man cannot live daily as if he does not matter. It is emotionally, mentally, and even physically destructive to one's own well-being, it's very unhealthy. One man is said to have commented that, "Everything is so much easier... not that I've given up all hope."😎... But it didn't last. In an effort to maintain some semblance of sanity Calvinists must live and speak "as if" they do matter while still struggling to maintain a level of 'false' humility that they do not. The way they frame their favorite statement: "It's ALL about God", or "It's all about Jesus", is a pious misdirection. ... A 'double-minded' man is unstable in all his ways. God's eternal, perfect, love for all of his creation IS the reason that Christ came to earth, especially his love for man, his greatest creation, made in his own image. Would you give your best for something worthless? Something which does not matter to you? No! Our Heavenly Father is very sane indeed. A sane person does not create anything in their own image for the express purpose of destroying it. If you encountered a child in a sandbox doing that with his toys ... you should not let your child play with them.... just sayin'.

[@SSNBN777]

God will judge righteously. All are called to believe. Some will not and perish.. 2 Corinthians 2:15-16 KJV *_For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved,_* and in them that perish: [16] To the one we are the savour of death unto death; *_and to the other the savour of life unto life._* And who is sufficient for these things?

[@Ramsrule9975]

I don’t understand why Christians treat each other like they’re in a cult or something.. These issues are not essential to our faith. Why do Christians choose to ostracize and treat other Christians that don’t believe the way they do on nonessential issues differently and make a big deal out of it . I listened to Leighton Flowers this morning, and he went over his change from being a Calvinist, And he had to leave his church .. It just really pisses me off seeing Christians treat each other like they’re in a cult if they don’t believe in these non essential issues.. Ridiculous, and sad .. The church needs to join together on common ground

[@calledtobefree387]

Im the old testaments the Holy Spirit did not dwell in humans, but in temples and the arc of the covalent. So just reading that in context already lets us know that we have an advantage today bc the Holy Spirit dwells within us compared to the Istrealites, so you cant really make that argument. We are in completely different situations

[@lahnijones4109]

It’s not so much an argument as it is an observation. God has been revealing His truth and unraveling the mystery of Christ since the beginning. Regardless of how He chose to do that-through prophets in the OT vs. the Holy Spirit in dwelling individuals in the NT-His expectation has always been the same….will we trust Him? Will we respond to the truth revealed to us? The Israelites rebelled + hardened their hearts to the truth they were given. They had a choice and God expected them to respond. The method in which truth is revealed to us has changed, but God’s expectation for us as His creatures has not changed. In this way, these truths are overlapped and relevant to the conversation of Calvinism.

[@shellbell8062]

I am also a truth seeker - Im not all that bothered about Calvanism perse but more about the individual doctrines. I have done some of my own seeking on this and these are the points that convince me that predestination is real: God chose Israel to be His own people in the Old Testament. That means that everyone else was not chosen and He was not their God by default. God loved Jacob and hated Isau. That was before they were old enough to make any choices. God has always had a remnant people. Romans 9:6 - 29 really emphasises this and says that the children of promise are counted as the seed. It also goes on to say that God is just and has the right and sovereignty to do as He pleases. Does the clay question the potter? We may find this hard to reconcile in our limited human minds, but there are mysteries that we cannot comprehend. God created vessels of wrath in order to refine His chosen ones. After all, He created satan and his fallen angels for this very purpose. Lucifer was predestined to fall when God created him (and his fallen angels). It was always in His plan that we would suffer in this life and that terrible pain and injustice would be inflicted on the sons of men. He allowed this. When we try to supersede God's word and ways with our own human understanding we are imposing our ways and our will over His. His ways are higher than ours. We know that satan asked the Lord's permission to inflict Job in the most horrendous way and even wipe his family off the face of the earth, and God allowed it. I have not heard Calvinist figures such as John Piper or John MacArthur say that we are predestined to shout at our children or that this is the will of God, or use predetermination / total depravity in this type of context, in fact I hear them emphasising resisting sin and walking worthy of the calling to which we have been called. That we are running a race and Paul tells us to run it in order to obtain a prize. That does not sit alongside these doctrines in the way that you described it to be. I do believe though that as the bible says, man is bent toward disobedience and only those who are given the grace of the Spirit are able to accept that Jesus is Lord. Natural man cannot understand the things of the Spirit because he is spiritually dead. I don't understand whether people are taking those doctrines and extrapolating them to extremes like this. I hear this argument from people arguing against Calvanism but I have never heard any Calvinist say such a thing. Of course that is untrue and ridiculous. Saying that - I believe that God allows us to fall and to sin so that He can use that experience to refine and develop us to hate sin all the more and to become more like Him.

[@thomasfryxelius5526]

Hello Shell Bell! I think all Biblebelieving christians must believe in predestination since it is in the Bible. But who is predestined for what? I Eph 2 it says "In love He predestined us to adoption as sons and daughters through Jesus Christ to Himself" The us here are believers, so believers were predestined to adoption. We know from Rom 8:23 that the adoption refers to the redemption of our bodies. So God has decided beforehand that believers will have new glorified bodies. That´s what biblical predestination is, not a predestination of individuals to become believers. "God loved Jacob and hated Isau. That was before they were old enough to make any choices." Read the text more carefully. It says "for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad...it was said to her, “THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER.” That is what was said when they were not yet born, the chosing of one to serve the other. It is later described how this is about the nations that will come from them and not about the individuals. We have no indication Esau ever served Jacob, but Edom did serve under Israel. This is then confirmed by the passage "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated." That was not said while they were unborn, but many hundreds of years later by the prophet Malachi, when God describes how He has preserved/loved Israel (Jacob) and made Edom (Esau) their vassals/hated them. "Romans 9:6 - 29 really emphasises this and says that the children of promise are counted as the seed. It also goes on to say that God is just and has the right and sovereignty to do as He pleases. Does the clay question the potter?" He does have that right, and Paul is arguing all through the epistle God has chosen to save based on faith and not by works. When Paul summarizes his point in this chapter he says this: "What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, but the righteousness that is by faith; however, Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though they could by works. " As for the potter imagery, please read Jer 18 God is the potter, we all agree there The clay vessels in the imagery both in Jer 18 and in Rom 9 are not individuals but group of people or nations. The shaping for destruction or honorable use in Jer 18 is not that God shapes our character and makes us believe or not believe, but how He has decided to bless or punish us based on our sin or repentance. The whole point of Jer 18 is to say that if you as a group are a vessel prepared for destruction you can still repent and God will refashion you to a vessel for blessing. Have a blessed day!

[@williammarinelli2363]

"God chose Israel to be His own people in the Old Testament. That means that everyone else was not chosen and He was not their God by default." Scripture provides course correction. Gen 12:3 - "and in thee (Abraham, progenitor of the nation of Israel) shall all families of the earth be blessed."

[@shellbell8062]

@@williammarinelli2363 Deuteronomy 7:6: For you Israel are a people holy to the Lord. The Lord your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be His people, His treasured possession.”

[@williammarinelli2363]

@@shellbell8062 Thanks for the response truth seeker. Good passage. We agree that Israel was chosen, but I add that it was not an election in which every Israelite was destined for heaven while every gentile was passed over and sent to hell. The election was that the nation would be the channel by which the Messiah would come, "of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came." Rom 9:5. I want you to believe predestination is real. It's mentioned 4 times in the Bible. Every believer is predestined to the adoption (Eph 1:5), which is the future redemption of the body (Rom 8:23). Romans 8:29 describes this predestined future event as "conformed to the image of His Son." 1 John 3:2 describes this future adoption as "we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is." If I have any influence on you then you'll be dissuaded from adopting the Augustinian perversion of predestination - leading to a logical conclusion that calvigod (the Calvinistic caricature of God) is less compassionate than I am as well as a deity that struggles with how to use words like every, all, and world.

[@makedisciples8653]

@@thomasfryxelius5526That was complete and correct

[@samanthagraveswalters8443]

I recommend the Bible project for back ground study and Dr Michael Heiser. None are Calvinist

[@marialamb6781]

Could one of you explain why is it that Calvinists don't feel what the three of us felt or eventually felt? I mean, like I said, I believe it is a spirit of bondage and a spirit of religiosity. But yet the three of us sought, GOD'S truth, and God's truth was revealed to us. They would accuse us that we don't know God's truth because we don't believe the way they do. Why do they have such a spirit of superiority yet they would insist that they are humble, and we are not because they completely misunderstand about that God allows and enables us to make choices that are truly made freely and willingly. How can they not see if they have the Spirit of God? How is it They cannot see if they have the spirit of God? This truly baffles me.

[@benjaminwilson7958]

I am a Calvinist generally, and isn't your statement something every genuine believer who searches the scriptures for truth would say? The desire and attempt of every true Christian should be to humbly approach God's Word and through prayer seek to know Him. And many of us believe God has revealed in His word what Calvinism generally teaches. So is your claim that Calvinists are not humble or that they do NOT have the Spirit of God? I certainly am not claiming that you do not.

[@feelgoodfishingwithhenko251]

Sooo many ads.....but great video

[@stanleyseiti1317]

Hello children. Alana I've missed you my girl, haven't had time to listen to you lately. Nice recording. Good sound. Too much light[no cristism...just advice my dear girl💐.] I am dark but but that light would have been too bright for my melanin rich African skin. You girls are look so pale it's actually pixilating on my screen. (sorry I am a retired photographer and a magazine publisher so I notice things like that.) May my God and your God keep you in the love of Christ...isn't it great to bless the same God with someone all the from the Southem part of the world in Africa. 🇿🇦

[@Jenn_Psalm25.4-7]

and I'd also like to know.....why they aren't flat our honest about their beliefs..makes you wonder....and unbelievers will say "I can't believe in a God who sends people to Hell" and then as a Calvinist turn around and say "WELL, not only will He send you to Hell but He'll PREDESTINE you to Hell for His glory"....Like come on....

[@itykud79]

How many people are going to hell? Many How many people are going to heaven? A lot less than many. Matthew 7:13 “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.

[@stephenhowe4107]

Calvinism is heretical. For that matter, Augustine has damaged both Roman Catholic & Protestant churches for 1600 years. Augustine knew zero Hebrew and a little Greek. The early church Fathers before Augustine understood Paul correctly (and NT Wright these days)

[@jchen2873]

Is it alarming everyone on this side centers everything around his/her feelings, reads Scripture through this man-centered lens. Possible your hearts are still in rebellion to God, not willing to submit?

[@makedisciples8653]

It’s always the Scriptures that confound the Calvinist. Scriptural truth creates joy and love for Jesus and others. Those feelings are the result of truth. The truth will set you free and out of the cage of bondage…all bondage Do you mean the free will to submit? Humble yourself? Admit that you are in the need of THE Savior? That you can’t save yourself? Remember…faith is not works

[@jessicalara9339]

I noticed that you removed your video on studying what happened when Jesus died on the cross/ penal substitution, have you changed your view?

[@AlanaL3]

No, I’m just not prepared to get into all that with anyone. I’m fine talking privately about it just not wanting to open that world on my channel:)

[@mickeyfoeller771]

God doesn't have two wills; He has two PROGRAMS! One to restore His earthly realm back to Himself with believing Israel under law & covenant AND one to restore His Heavenly realm back to Himself with the church the Body of Christ under a new dispensation of grace, a new gospel ( given to Paul for us)of simply believe/trust the finished work of Jesus Christ as atonement for ALL our sins, not a covenant but a FREE GIFT! Israel has to persevere unto the end of the tribulation ( faith + works) but our program is faith + zippo! Quit trying & start trusting & get stablished in Rom-Philemon FIRST, ( to understand your solid position & completeness IN CHRIST, then read the rest of the Bible & then it makes SO much more sense! Btw, the Calvinist doesn't recognize the two PROGRAMS going on in Scripture bc he is reading himself into MMLJ & Heb-Rev when in fact, those books aren't our "mail". They are so busy HARMONIZING the Scriptures when God told us to RIGHTLY DIVIDE these two programs of God. Paul said, Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised according to MY gospel ( the one given to HIM!); Wherein I suffer trouble as an evil doer.."2 Tim.2:7-9 KJB. True grace, true peace!

[@mickeyfoeller771]

Wait till you learn that you've been completely forgiven of ALL your sins ( past/present/future sins) the moment you believed/trusted the finished work of Jesus Christ as atonement for your sins, 1 Cor.15:1-4, Eph.2:8-9 KJB. The whole short-accounts keeping thing is bunk! Christendom does not understand this but rightly dividing does through a Pauline Mid-Acts Dispensational understanding of Scripture. Grace Ambassadors has excellent videos by Justin Johnson.

[@ransche1]

Sorry, but dispensational theology is also a false teaching.

[@ransche1]

Can you possibly explain why repenting for sin against a living God is wrong? Jesus is your Saviour, whom you sin against, and he was also your friend and brother. When you do something against your friend, or brother/sister, mother/father, boss, relative, even stepping on your dogs tail, don’t you feel sorry or regret and go to that person (or dog) and apologize or try to make it up to them? Not for salvation or correcting fellowship necessarily, but Jesus is not simply a doctrine in a book. He is a living being that we live for and want to please. Our relationship is God is represented with our physical in the flesh relationships. I would treat my God with at least a little more respect than I do my wife. My lord teaches me how to treat my wife, and so my existing with my wife gives me in a small sense how to treat my God. God is not a formula or an AI. He is not the Bible. He can’t be chopped up into dispensational sections. He’s not part of a spiritualized schedule to deal out like a card game.

[@mickeyfoeller771]

The reason why at one point in the Bible it says Christ died for the "many" & later it says "for all" is bc He came in His earthly ministry to the lost sheep of the house of Israel ONLY at that time, the "many" are those who were the believing Jews, the ones who did accept Jesus as their Messiah. God reveals His truth progressively. Later, after saving Paul, the ascended Christ gives FURTHER revelation to Paul & included in the things He revealed to Paul is that now, ANYONE can be saved by 1 Cor.15:1-4 Eph.2:8-9 KJB, because HE DIED FOR ALL but this was a secret God kept hid in HIMSELF ( not in the O.T.) until He revealed it to Paul! But if God had revealed it earlier, then Satan would not have gone through with having Jesus crucified, but He HAD to die for BOTH programs of God. Satan had no clue that God also had a plan to restore His Heavenly realm as well!