Let’s give black belts to little kids!

[@RexWu]

One of the best grapplers i ever rolled with was only a blue belt. He's tapped so many brown and black belts around the area and he's widely known as one of the best guys around. But he's a blue belt since the gym he trains at only promotes people on promotion days. He just never bothered to show up on promotion day. So on paper he's still a blue, but skillwise he's a black.

[@deivytrajan]

That’s sandbagging. If this guy shows up on blue belt comps, that’s not fair

[@OptimalOwl]

@@deivytrajan Whose fault is it that he'd be placed in a competition that's below his skill level? The parent organization in Brazil made up some hoops for people to jump through. The guy refuses to jump through those hoops. This causes the tournament organizer, perhaps knowingly, to sort him into a level of competition where he doesn't belong. Is it the guy's fault? Should we just require him to not compete until his belt matches his skill level? Is it the fault of the parent organization in Brazil for making up a sorting system that has these sorts of holes in it? Or is it the fault of the tournament organizer for sticking to a set of rules even when those rules don't make sense? IMO, if the guy _deliberately or carelessly passes himself off as something he's not,_ then he's the jerk. But if he explains to the organizer who he is and what he does, maybe points to some guys he trains with who'll vouch for him, and the organizer _still_ sorts him wrong, then that's on them.

[@RexWu]

@@deivytrajan oh no. He competes at purple and higher on the regular. He's not a bully like that.

[@elmaxidelsur]

a guy with 10 years in boxing is a white belt in every marcial art.... .... Color belts are a double edge sword

[@GuitarsRockForever]

some dojo do that (only promote on special promotion day). I knew one karate dojo did that (not sure now, not sure if that dojo still exists), and you will be missing the promotion if you don't show up on the promotion day (and pass the "promotion test"). every student there tried to make there early on the promotion day, and they could not have anything meaningful or productive done on the promotion day, as they have to go through all those "show" to promote the students.

[@jimbuck795]

"Belts are for holding up your pants." Mr. Miyagi

[@DadBodFit]

So true 🤣

[@davidbarnwell_virtual_clas6729]

They use belt ranks in Okinawan karate schools don't they? So, they seem to believe belts have some use.

[@juanlastra3502]

@@davidbarnwell_virtual_clas6729 Grabbing your money, a martial arts school open to the public is a business after all

[@jc-kj8yc]

I stopped caring for belt colors long ago, but there's two things to them I really like to this day. I trained in a sub branch of Hapkido and belt tests were pretty tough. They were multiple hours long (up to 3 days for the blackbelts) and physically and psychologically demanding. So getting a new belt always came with a feeling of validation. You prevailed, proved that you know your stuff and now could move on to the next step. And that's the second part I like. The next step. Belts can give you a small goal in a long journey. So you don't lose your focus and especially as a kid/teenager that really helped me (tbf this martial art had no competitions and competitions can totally replace belts as goals). To me a belt was never a power tool to pull rank, but a personal achievement and somewhat of a stepping stine in my journey and that can be really valuable. But you're 100% correct, people use them as power tools or as money makers.

[@mauricematla8379]

Wich one was that ? It pounds pretty familiar...

[@m5a1stuart83]

Belt and certificate are legit too. You can use those for working as a security guard. No matter how long you join MMA without achievement is bullshit in some cases.

[@jc-kj8yc]

@@m5a1stuart83 yes, this is another example of belts being really problematic. "You're a blackbelt in Karate? Sure, you can work at our door" is a big problem if I never sparred or fought a second to get that belt. But tbf all clubs who look for doormen or companies who need security guards I've come across in the last 15 years, prefer combat sports athletes or high level grapplers.

[@m5a1stuart83]

@@jc-kj8yc I do Judo anyway, but in here at least in my country. Those certificates are legit for joining the Army, Policemen or Security Guard. Having a blackbelt with certificate is one of a plus rather than playing Muay Thai without any achievements. Unless, the person is a national champion with proof or certificate, or instructor that listed in National Sport Organizations. If not then, kind of useless except for self defense.

[@kaizenproductions00]

I learned a while back that in the 1960s, La Sierra High School used to use color shorts in PE class to show students fitness levels. The tests to get the higher ranked shorts were akin to special forces physical fitness tests. Only 19 students made it to the highest rank (Navy Blue) in the history of the program.

[@sweynforkbeard8857]

Sounds familiar, we had colored t-shirts with definable tests to achieve the appropriate color shirt.

[@robertnewell4054]

La Sierra is LEGEND. There was some effort to make it State wide.., but ya know🤷🏻‍♂️. I believe they still run it today

[@kevinjung6130]

This sort of merit-based ranking system is a good way of promoting healthy competition that I'd love to see more of!

[@kaizenproductions00]

@@robertnewell4054 La Sierra High School in Carmichael, CA (where the program was) closed in 84, but there is a school that shares the name that is still open in Riverside, CA. I remember reading many other schools adopted the program but I doubt it still exists today at any public school.

[@robertnewell4054]

@@kaizenproductions00 …. Right on. This was my introduction to the program. kzbin.info/www/bejne/nKTFaIB7oL6XhtU

[@Mbstr1]

The thing about belts and stripes for me is, I train hard and I am passionate about improving at my skills. So when I get a belt or stripe, it is an aknowledgement by someone else based upon the effort I put in. It is not my goal for training to chase belts, but it is nice when I get one.

[@benjobopper5447]

this is the same thing for me but what i prefer more is when my professor(s) say something along the lines of “you’re doing really well” or “nice work today”

[@botanicalbiohacking6065]

The real question is why an adult would wear one. I used to, but honestly, it's like a merit badge in boy scouts.

[@elknolasshrineofraja3966]

🌸🌺Belts only matter for egos.🌺🌸

[@mastertorryn5397]

No you don't understand the belts are representation of how much they were taught and the years they spent learning.

[@definitlynotbenlente7671]

@@mastertorryn5397 the collored belts do not mean much

[@DadBodFit]

Not true, consider this. It can be a proficient tool to help kids focus in classes to attain a physical "trophy" of their accomplishments.

[@rickywoods3101]

@@definitlynotbenlente7671 ya, the don't matter a lot but I still think they matter.

[@rickywoods3101]

@@DadBodFit it helps me with safety issues, if I roll with a white belt I'm probably not going to heel look and other dangerous submissions. But if they are say purple or higher I know they aren't going to hurt themselves trying to escape an submission wrong .

[@Aerational]

Once when I was in kindergarten, standing in the lunch line, there was a slightly older kid claiming to be a black belt to everyone. I simply said "I thought they don't give black belts to kids" and he proceeded to leg sweep me right onto the back of my head on the cement. I got incredibly rocked at the least. I don't know if I went out or not. Just remember getting that red/white/black flash you get when you hit your head hard, then kinda coming to and scrambling up. Very dizzy, head buzzing/ringing, but I was terrified to tell an adult what happened because this kid was obviously dangerous. I do believe I sustained brain damage that day... unfortunately the home life also wasn't conducive to really telling my parents anything so it went completely unchecked or treated. So, yeah.... no. Not only should they not be taught the skills to earn the black belt, but just giving a kid the belt (even some "safer" Jr version), and the connotation that comes with it, will raise that kids ego to the point of beating up kids in school to prove they're a black belt. No child has the emotional maturity to be told they are the absolute top skill level of anything. Kids can't handle that kind of ego boost, even most adults turn into massive douches when given accolades. Look at Will Smith.

[@alessandromangiapia7082]

That is an issue with the kid, not with the belt. A kid like that could have beaten someone even without any training just by being over aggressive.

[@Aerational]

@@alessandromangiapia7082 I knew someone was going to say this. The kid was clearly trained, and I also went on to say that even giving kids just a belt is such an ego boost they are way more likely to be violent toward someone. Yes kids can be violent and aggressive and egotistical without a black belt... hence why adding to that is not a good idea. Kids are also hyper, that's not a justification for letting one smoke crack.

[@Aerational]

@@alessandromangiapia7082 I mean take an already aggressive kid, give him lethal training and an accolade that tells him he can kick everyone's ass. Do you not see how that can make the situation worse?

[@Aerational]

@@alessandromangiapia7082 To sit here and claim there is no difference between an aggressive kid, and an aggressive kid who's trained to hurt people and gassed up on the idea of being a complete badass... is just pure denial. Do you run a Dojo that hands out Jr black belts or something?

[@Tigermaster1986]

@@alessandromangiapia7082 The problem very much is with the belt, actually. When I was in kindergarten, most boys went through the "I know karate" phase, even if they had no training whatsoever. Often giving a boy like this a high rank in a martial art is like giving him a license to get into fights with other kids. As Ramsey Dewey said in the video here, getting the coveted black belt often changes even adults. Some Bulgarian martial artists call this "master's disease" - the sudden growth of one's ego when they get a black belt. And adults are, in general, more self-aware and more level-headed than kids.

[@Sigrt]

I train Jujutsu, and for us, the belts have their uses. Since you get belts by showing you know techniques from the sylubus, it makes it easy to keep track of where your students are if the dojo is large. When it comes to competition, belts doesn't matter at all, You wear a blue or red belt, gloves and shin guards. Only weight and gender are seperated.

[@kennybeginner4087]

In traditional jiu jitsu it takes about 10 years to be a candidate for black belt. In a mcdojo 7 years old kids are black belts

[@thefaboo]

I learned TKD years ago from a good friend and while I don't personally chase belts at all, I still have all my TKD belts - because my good friend whose skill I respect said "you've earned this".

[@Emcron]

I like how my sensei emphasizes the responsibility that comes with our black belts: we treat them as marks of instructorship, because we're expected to help him teach junior students (as well as leading by example during classes).

[@furiousfellow1583]

I loved this week's episode of the show!, loved that point: belt color is a visual expression about your relationship with your instructor/school, personally I had to change dojos a lot for political issues when I competed at university, hence there was I medaling on nationals wearing a yellow belt

[@itzbebop]

My best friend earned his black belt in TKD at the age of 13. But he's an actual badass with several KOs in the ring. He's now a 4th degree.

[@dogfacedponysoldier1692]

Great lessons as always coach. Continued prayers for everyone.

[@Jagunco]

I've been in and around martial arts for the vast majority of my life, like many in here I suspect. When I was an adolesent I didn't grade fast because I was lazy, I was doing karate at the time. I branched out into Tae Kwon do and Kickboxing, which ran far more structured gradings than the karate school. I found this more to my liking though I can see the disadvantages as well as the advantages now. Well It took me about 9 or 10 years to get my black belt in karate. To my knowlege I was the only person to have to take a test to get this. The standard time to get black belt in this style was 4 years but a mixture of reason both within and beyond my control were in play. I will say there was one gentleman who recieved a brown belt in that style, two weeks in then took about 8 months off for whatever reason, came back for a couple more weeks, went on a course and was awarded a black belt. When it was suggested he might mention he'd about 4 lessons to someone he said he's practiced elements of his karate while playing soccer. I hear this second hand but still... Well suffice to say some of the reasons it took so long to grade me was 1) the instructor wasn't trying to have sex with me, and 2) The instructor knew I would turn up if I wasn't graded. But I have to say that because of all the rubbish surrouding that belt I does mean I earned it so I'm proud of it. Then I started capoeira. Which I was surprised to learn not only had a grading system but I structured one with exams. I trained hard and regulary and progressed quickly at first, but was forced to channge instructors for reasons I won't enter into here. I was glad of the change though as I questioned the results some people were getting. I felt the professor put his business before his honesty. This in turn made me question my success. My next professor, while part of the same school, had little interest in gradings. I can hardly blame him and the cost of putting one on (which seemed to revolve around the financial well being of the Mestre in Brazil) made it frankly not worth holding a grading which none of his students held much interest in because none of them were graded. I myself though was fustrated as at this point I had trained longer than some professors in Brazil and I had aspirations of starting a lesson of my own, which I could not do if I was not a professor myself. I remember this with some bitterness and it is the only fault I would level against this professor as I honestly hold a great deal of respect for him, that he would cite that were were not of a high enough grade for things, while not giving us the oppourtunity to grade. I was not in a financial situation that would allow me to travel to Brazil for a grading, and frankly would pay for a plane ticket for someone that someone else would pay 20 quid for. Well anyway I changed instructors a couple more times, people moving out the area and what not. Then ended up changing groups. This group had a grading system, but it was different to the other one, and while it had some structure it had no exams. I've now graded three times with this new club to the point I'm qualified enough to open my own class, which is all I really wanted. Capoeira isn't easy when you get to 45 though. In this time I've seen at least one person graded because they basically whined for it, and it was easier to give them than not. I've seen one guy so opposed to grades they literally force them upon him if he bothers to show up on a batizado. I know one man who was open hostile towards me when he heard I expected to grade to instructor and demanded to know why I thought this would happem, it apparently not occuring to him that I had been told by the person who's decision it was. And of course there was me, who after seeing all of this tom foolery about a rope that people who don't do the art wouldn't even recognise, told the Mestre to give it to me or not, but I would be there for training the next week irreguardless and I didn't want to be given a belt that would make me look like a fool.

[@asteriskcolon]

I had the opposite experience. I did Goju for five years as a small child, failed the same belt test twice in a row, quit. Never got past Rokkyu, slightly less than halfway to black I came back at 20 years old, (ten years later), same instructor, got back to my old rank within a year. School then closed due to the instructor beginning to have serious and limiting health problems Anyway I switched to cross training Aikido, BJJ and Judo after a few years with a different Karate instructor (and a JJJ one) 30 (collective, added up, I had been cross training) years of training later and I still don't have a black belt (though I am close in two different arts) I know I can smash TKD and Karate black belts (the pure stylists) in MMA so I don't let the lack of black belt bother me Still, my only real goal (and it has been for a long time) has been to be an outstandingly good instructor. After about 30 years, I feel I am only maybe halfway to where I want to be with that...

[@michaeldelaney1058]

I remember attending a seminar where a foreign instructor, an older man who many respected, forgot his black belt. However, he had a black piece of fabric, essentially a long sleeve to transport his bo staff, and wrapped that around his waist instead. Yes, it was a substitution black belt, but in the moment I was impressed how this man was still just as respected while wearing a random piece of cloth. I'm sure if he wore no belt he would still have been respected as well.

[@Narusasu98]

You're an awesome speaker, it's always a pleasure to watch your insightful videos. Keep it up!

[@soupedkid13]

A black belt in some martial arts is just the begining, it means you know the basics. It's the start, not the end, and that's it. I've always liked that philosophy because regardless of ones martial arts journey, there is always more to learn and ways to further yourself as well as your practice. That hold true for everyone, even the best of the best. I don't see anything wrong with a black belt meaning that you've got the basics, enough to learn on your own and develop your style within the art, a true intermediate level once fresh and something with unmatched potential if someone sticks to it

[@DadBodFit]

I have to say, Ramsey having seen your older material and now this current content. Your quality has improved immensely, especially your ability to speak and remain comfortable looking on camera. 👏

[@michaelbuelow9275]

Getting our black belt is like turning 21 years old. Something we look forward to as we approach it. Something we celebrate when it arrives. Something to reflect fondly upon when we are older. But, in the end, it is just another day in the journey.

[@lilosnitch3247]

In japanese culture saw black belts differently. The student having a black belt means they have the basic foundation understanding and teachings of the specific art. Thats why its called "shodan"meaning the first degree

[@Malt454]

Yes, a black belt was only an acknowledgement of having begun serious study, with all the expectations that go along with that.

[@davidbarnwell_virtual_clas6729]

I just cannot wrap my mind around this argument. People are making it seem as if children being taught martial arts or being awarded black belts is somehow new or a version of modern decadence. It's not. It's been going on as long as black belts have been around. A child CAN be adept in a physical activity like martial arts or gymnastics. A black belt is just a certification saying that you've proven knowledge of a system up to a certain level. It's NOT something saying you're going to win UFC or become boxing champion of the world. It was NEVER that. At the same time, the heights of ridiculousness indulged in the US and UK, giving black belts to 5 year olds and 8 year olds....giving advanced rank in sport to people who are barely out of toddler stage....that's just crazy. Americans and some people in the UK seem to oscillate between different versions of ridiculousness....between insisting kids should NEVER have advanced rank....insisting that no one under 18 can be a black belt...in complete defiance of the actual recorded history of martial arts in both Asian and Western societies... And when they're not doing that... They're insisting that 5 year olds should be assistant instructors at martial arts schools... Can they apply their intellect to these topics or what?! YES ...kids can be black belts! A 13 year old is fully capable of leading a martial arts class. However, a 5 year old or 8 year old...is NOT!! This is not difficult! Belts are useful organisational tools. They're not supposed to confer enlightenment anymore than a driver's license is supposed to be able teach you how to drive. BUT, it's still useful to have exams that teach people how to drive. It's still important to have certification exams that assess your ability to drive. There's absolutely nothing wrong with belt ranks or black belts.

[@ericdale4641]

I prefer suspenders myself. Seriously, I'm not even into martial arts but somehow this is one of my favorite channels. Keep up the good work!

[@simonrief1013]

I trained many years Kung Fu and Sanda. We have in our school belts but we have also these white cuffs/spats I don't know how it's said in english, but you may have seen them at shaolin monks. However they are awarded from a master to a student, not for achieving a form or something, but when the master sees that you are in the right mindset, that you work hard. That this is not just a hobby, but has become more a sort of lifestyle. I really wanted these cuffs, so I trained really really hard almost every day (maybe a little bit too much) But no matter how hard I trained I never got them. So someday I went to my master after the training and asked him: "Sifu why do I don't get the cuffs. I train so hard, I even started teaching in your school blabla, is that not enough?" And he looked at me and said: "In my opinion you just earned them a year ago." I was surprised and asked: "Why didn't you gave them to me?" And he replied: "Because we all need to break with traditions. If you want them you can buy them at ebay or something for 15 bucks, like everyone else can..." So I went home a little bit frustrated, but after some days I decided to continue may training in the same intensity. And after 5 month I felt like I was good. I mean not good for the cuffs, but I thought man you did really well, so I bought myself as a sign of hard work two blue sweatbands. And instead of the acknowledgment of my master I managed it to acknowledge my own work. And till today I think that's a good trade (I got the cuffs later because I found them fancy and it was sort of a statement but they never mattered as much as these sweatbands)

[@beawarrior9208]

This video was really interesting! I listened to it this morning and there was so much I wanted to say but it would take too much time, lol. About the BJJ belts: in Japan the uniform is the norm. When you know the color codes, the dress code or the body language, you can recognize who somebody is supposed to be. A sushi chef can only call himself an itamae after he trained for so many years and then he will have another color code that is known by the rest of the people. As long as he's not a chef, he's an apprentice. I can imagine the people in Brazil using some rules from Japan but eventually making up something that suits their own habits better. They ended up having different belts but the rules to get those belts vary between gyms so people with the same belt don't per definition have the same skills. It doesn't make much sense anymore. Culture has such a big impact on everything we do and on how we perceive things. I had a lot more to say but I think it's enough now ;-) Thanks for the nice post!

[@ianmarshall3633]

I don't use belts at all in my class. I have created a report system for each student which I complete every three months.This informs me and the student how they are progressing. I use it to help my students identify areas where they can improve. This is because all students are different and show more or less aptitude in different areas. This allows me to tailor techniques to suit their abilities. This both encourages the student and allows them to develop a style more suitable to their mind set, body type and ability. For the most part this removes 'ego' and improves the personal bond between the students and myself. I impress upon my students that we are not here to beat each other but to improve our style and technical ability. To allow each of them to practice their individual techniques. Because, we are unlikely to fight eachother on the street. Therefore, it does not matter if you win or lose in a class situation. These are all teaching moments. What matters is their confidence in their own technical ability. To be comfortable with the techniques they are using. We all progress at different rates. The belt system just enforces a false hierarchy which allows those who have higher rank belts to inforce their ego and status within the class. Belts only determine how long you have been training and how many technical levels you have aquired. The belt has no bearing on fighting ability. We have all heard of and seen lower rank students beat higher rank students in competition. Ability is what counts not the belt. The belt feeds the ego and gives the student or teacher a false sense of security. We've all seen the videos of so called masters getting their asses kick by novice to medium skilled MMA fighters. The rank did not protect the master. Ego, hubris is no substitute for good technique and confidence in one's ability. If we're to fight someone on the street you don't know what skills they may have if any. But you will know yours and this will determine whether you fight or walk away. I will always advocate the latter. Fighting is always the last resort.

[@mattonmaui2012]

I consider a black belt a teaching credential. A black belt qualifies you to be a professional teacher. I have a soccer coaching license, which at minimum means I’ve completed some safety courses and a criminal background check. Black belt = coach = professor.

[@davidjadeaeckhard9625]

Ramsey! I appreciate you, as a teacher (and coach). I feel like I am in a Priesthood Quorum Session, where the Savior suddenly shows up and (reverently) sits between two Elders. We all share and contribute, but no one feels less than or greater than the other. Thank you for the Lesson(s). Pure respect.

[@DeeBeeScribe]

There should be two belts. One belt displays your knowledge of techniques, while the other represents your skill level at applying techniques in sparring or combat.

[@alc3781]

The most powerful fictional martial artist Goku wears a blue belt.... You suck Goku! Hehe

[@kirillzakharov7336]

29:06 yet that's what still present in some parts of the world to this day

[@mcroadracer1]

Thanks brother! My black belt certificate says I’m beginner. I happen to agree. 😀 God bless you and your family 🙏

[@carlosheras7139]

Digging the tie, Coach!

[@drachimera]

Ramsey, thanks for sharing! I have a Ph.D. and a 2nd degree Black Belt in FMA. Took 9 years to get the Ph.D., 20 to get the Black Belt. Neither of them mean anything. They open doors, I can teach xyz, I can apply to certain jobs ect. Belts are useful for two things: 1. Organize the class to prevent injuries, and 2. To remind us of how much more we have to learn. Have you ever noticed how Rickson Gracie teaches? Everything is so simple! He acts like he has the most to learn, because I think he honestly believes it. My school uses the phrase “empty your cup” to mean to make space for more knowledge. When you are the teacher, the knowledge is harder to obtain… your students teach you, life teaches you, you figure things out on your own. A black belt means you have more to share. It means you are working on better ways to make what you share simple to understand for others. It means that knowledge comes less and less from your teacher and more from other places. What you are doing here on KZbin is fantastic! It comes from exactly the same place. Thank you for teaching me so much over the years! Best wishes!

[@drachimera]

More to the point: why shouldn’t we give black belts to children? We should. If they can demonstrate that the source of their learning at this point is no longer their instructor! I have never seen that in a kid.

[@descoutinho-e1y]

@@drachimera Then don't you that. But the KIO which is the governing body for sports Karate in India now. Affiliated to the Asian and Olympic games for its National Competitions recognises four groups for non adult black belts. Junior kids of age 14-15. Cadet kids of age 15-16 senior kids of 17 and finally under 21. The culture is different here in India. In Kerala the traditional martial art was Kalaripayattu. It was only taught to kids starting 6-7 years two five year cycles and then when you left school you could specialise in it but it has no belt system. With Karate fair to say its not that popular a sport in India. Mainly practised by Kids. We don't have a particularly great international squad. We will never win Olympic medals in it. So kids start as young as 3+ Karate day care. They'll probably get black belts by 12 and to encourage them to stay on they get the change to compete at State level in age protected levels in addition to weight and sex classes. But it's a sport. Even Kalari is a sport these days. If you see it as a way of learning how to fight someone to the death. No we don't train kids to do that. That's not what the KIO is about. Or the Olympics or the ASEAN games

[@elknolasshrineofraja3966]

🌸❤️9:05 hits home.❤️🌸

[@FulguroGeek]

The best quote about belts ever is clearly from Mr. Myagui in Karate Kid. Belts are only for keeping pants in place.

[@lightxxatu]

have you ever considered putting your videos up as podcasts on spotify? i'd love to be able to listen to some of your discussion style videos while i'm on the road

[@hailhydreigon2700]

"What are the purpose of the belts other than tradition?" Marketing! 😭 And to ensure that nobody outside of BJJ can compete at the higher levels and possibly beat someone at a BJJ comp. Seriously. Josh Barnett has an "honorary" Black belt in BJJ despite never training seriously in it, and it has kinda worked against him. Barnett loves to credit his Catch Wrestling base as the reason he's so good at Grappling- and part of his message is that BJJ isn't the only way to become a good grappler. But so many times I've read in comments sections people calling him a hypocrite because of his BJJ black belt without reading more into it. It's like the black belt just sucks up all of his Grappling accomplishments and gives them to Jiu Jitsu. The level of market weaponization is impressive for a piece of cloth. Fun Fact: The Gauntlet was a form of execution practiced by the Landschneckts of Germany. Same thing as the BJJ one except with Pikes...and you don't live at the end. Shout out to the HEMA dudes- your culture has been appropriated by BJJ ;P

[@christopherrasberry9629]

Belts can symbolize different things to different schools. I was honored that my teacher recognized my abilities. Black or whatever color only has as much significance as the teacher and the school give it.

[@GenXPower]

Correct me if I am wrong.... but isn't a belt an objective measure of proficiency? If a kid can pass the proficiency test, would he not be a black belt? I don't think it measures fighting ability, but it supposedly measures your level of knowledge and ability to perform the prescribed techniques. I dunno.... I know a lot of black belts that are excellent martial artists that can't fight for anything.

[@hezekiah74]

Here in Japan all kids gets black belts. Actually most start at pre-school and 80% of them get their black belt by the time they finish Elementary school. And then guess what 90% of them (included my own daughter) quit. Just like that.The main reason is that in Japanese Junior High School, They must sign up for extra curricular activities which actually takes up their weekends. They simply have no time for Karate.

[@descoutinho-e1y]

I don't think it causes so much angst anywhere in the East as it does in the West. But even with a pool of 10% you're gonna get a fine looking world and olympic team. And some of those black belt kids doing katas have some impressive style. Saw one on a music video once.

[@Arkhael666]

As a teacher my curriculum is set so that a rank is given yearly (if the aspirant is dedicated). Black belt would take 6 years assuming the aspirant passed all the tests in due time and is a full-time student. What I mean to do is that they kind of lose interest in just getting ranks and focus on learning the technique, having fun while experimenting with it. Basically that technique, not rank, speaks for them. There's only three belts: white for the fist six months, purple for 6 years (just like the color really, no other particular reason) and then black, apart from that, there's no other distinctions between students (need to keep good records to know which rank they're in LOL)

[@jeremyyerger7527]

I had a drill Sergeant at basic training that told us very specifically during our combatives training that your belt doesn't matter on the battlefield. He, himself was only a brown belt in some style and a purple in another. But he was a master at destroying people quickly and efficiently. One day, about the 8th week of basic, one kid ( yes kid. 18yo guys are kids compared to a drill Sergeant with lots more experience in pretty much everything.) Decided that he had had enough being treated like a maggot and since he was a black belt in Tae Kwon do he was going to do something about. That something was getting so violently and quickly beat down that the drill Sergeant didn't even assign the rest of us extra work to do because he didn't want to have to watch us. Turned out the brown belt only basic combatives instructor was a combat teacher on loan from the Rangers. His belt meant nothing compared to his knowledge and experience at destroying people.

[@terencejeffries5359]

how do? good to hear your dialogue ramsey. keep imagining the practitioners you've previously mentioned seeking less trained or weaker sparring opponents to give themselves 'tickets' and wonder how many the ' old bloke with the white belt ' has given a shock to. can't stop grinning thinking of all the facial expressions while they're tapping out. taztez.

[@Aerational]

It's funny how often "tradition" comes down to older generations wanting younger generations to endure the same abuse they had to.

[@kevinjung6130]

I've heard the belt system explained in different ways. In theory, it's supposed to be a standardized system that allows for people to learn a certain set of skills at a set rate, with each belt rank representing a certain degree of knowledge and proficiency in that style. In theory, this should be no different from grades in schools or years/credits in college towards a degree. In practice, however, most belt rank systems in less competition oriented styles exist for the sole purpose of creating the illusion of progress and creating a system of control that the dojo owner/association owners can control. By creating an arbitrary belt ranking system (and a belt promotion test curriculum to boot), most martial arts schools that have no basis in combat sports competitions or performative martial arts competitions don't need to produce athletes who can actually apply what they've learned and win. Even with how much the WT touts itself as a standardized organization, the sheer scale of students who have poom/dans who can't even do their basic forms/can't compete in forms/aren't athletic at all/can't spar under USAT&Olympics rules properly/can't actually defend themselves using their striking/spent a month taking care of a plant to I have spoken to educators working in higher education and friends who say that some of the endemic problems in the average martial arts school parallels that of k-12 programs and even higher education programs. A good portion of credit requirements have little to no bearing on their focus of study and even less on a day to day basis of their professional careers. Good education, both in academia and athletics, is vital for competent competitors and professionals, and we need to hold organizations accountable to guarantee that students and athletes are being respected for the time and resources they devote to learning. There is no perfect sport but there definitely are better systems of athletic progress/competency recognition. At the end of the day, more people would rather look the part of their idea of something that's attractive (a black belt, a successful individual, a wealthy individual, etc) than actually be that thing. People would rather spend 150-200/month plus fees over the course of 2-3 years to have something to wrap around their waist with no tangible athletic/competitive achievement than actually work their butts off towards a specific goal (like actually winning competitions in a way that applies what they are learning on a day to day basis!)

[@ScottGarrettDrums]

The point you miss is that the overwhelming majority of martial artists intentionally don't train to fight and they don't fantasize about themselves as real warriors facing real combat, for being in a ring with rules and a referee. They're just there to learn a martial art and enjoy the company of the community. It's these hobbyists who keep the lights on and the doors open at most gyms.

[@kevinjung6130]

@@ScottGarrettDrums I mentioned performative aspects of martial arts that people train in - regardless of whether someone wants to compete/train to fight or compete/train to perform, there has to be some degree of progression that isn't vague and has more to do with how much time someone has been a member/been attending vs their actual skill level. Having belt promotion tests in an environment where pressure is artificial, loose, and basically just knockoff crossfit/memorization instead of it being an actual gauge of testing someone's skill means the tests and belt ranks have no meaning beyond a means of self-congratulation and control.

[@kevinjung6130]

@topher nolastname The lack of standardization is the problem, especially when belt ranks are involved. If people want to get together and fight, spar, grapple, or practice demos, stunts, choreography that's great - but then applying the idea of progression that seldom holds any accountability towards learning and improving for the sake of a belt/pulling more $ from test fees needs to change.

[@mastermichaeldunchok]

I often have students proudly tell me, "Master, the belt doesn't matter to me, I am just here to train and learn," and that's great, but then I tell them, the belt isn't for you to feel validated. It's for me to know what I have already taught you at a glance and group you up for what you're ready to learn next!

[@lvl5Vaporeon]

The only black belt I'll give my child is if he wants to look extra dapper in his school photo

[@killaben85]

To paraphrase the Karate Nerd (in reference to the part where Ramsey was talking about Tradition): Tradition isn't about preserving ashes, it's about keeping the fire a live.

[@bravelilspidey]

I appreciate belts for the time and dedication people have put into their training, however, if the person isn't a good person then I lose all respect for them regardless of their status at a gym or dojo. I told my sensei when I started I just wanted to get my 1st stripe just to signify I know how to properly fall and don't need anything higher than a white belt. I'm in it for the long haul, not a race to get to a higher belt so I can be a white belt for 10 years and I'd be fine as long as my body allows me to continue to train. Right now my back is killing me so I missed a couple days of training 😞

[@spaceinvader9815]

I got my junior black belt when I was 9. I lasted about 4 more years before I realized my sensei wasn’t teaching anything more than forms and one step sparring. No hard sparring, takedowns , or anything like that.

[@MrLimon27]

When I got to taekwondo in my college, I wore my brother's old suit, including his yellow belt. Nobody cared, except for one student. "If you are not a yellow belt you shouldn't wear it, it is disrespectful". I apologised and didn't wear it again. After a couple of weeks, I think, our teacher (sabonin?) gave us an exercise with our belts. We would put our belt around our partner's waist and hold them from the back while they try to run away from us and drag us. I thought it was pretty funny, I was technically wearing a black belt (my partner was a black belt) I waved to the "disrespected" guy, smiled at him and told him "hey, look, I'm a black belt now". Symbols are nice and all of that. I think I get the effort that is behind it for some people and we could all respect it more (properly) and see them as not as important for everyone. It should only be important for you and for the right reasons.

[@dgillian183]

Excellent!!!

[@fireeaglefitnessmartialart935]

I stopped caring about belts fairly early in my martial arts journey. However, when I got into capoeira, I wanted those early cord ranks not because it meant anything to other people or other capoeiristas, but because they meant the time and work I put into training, through job loss, economic lows, and even an apocalypse. And I kept going. That's what the level means to me. And that's how I perceive the other ranks in other styles. The time, effort and personal struggles one had to sacrifice to get that level. But I think it's also similar to how video games are. You pass a certain point, next level, etc, etc. I think belts are a real tangible way to show how far one had come. There's not really ways to tell that someone beat level 6 in mario, or zelda, but there is in karate, etc.

[@maddog4186]

Beautiful tie my friend

[@ThanksGuy01]

Hey ramsey! Because of your inspirational weight video the one where u say you need them i went and signed up to a weight gym close to my home to better my performance in mma/bjj. Thanks a million for that video. I remember I used to be so scared of free weights and stick to the treadmill but im driven and motivated to pick up the weight and get strong and perform better in my training and in competition 💪 grrrrr now to get out there and TRAIN!

[@RamseyDewey]

Outstanding!

[@larrygreen8828]

I've never trained anything and dont really know much about martial arts, but when I saw kids in different color belts, I always just assumed they are junior belts of some kind, and when they grow up they start over when they train as an adult. I doubt many people actually take their belts any more seriously than that

[@zpettigrew]

BJJ purple belt. Several Blackbelts (TKD, Karate, Aikido). Came from wrestling though and used to compete in many combat sports. I've been "given" belts but never had any belt as a goal. Always just enjoyed training and competing. Never found them particularly important or useful. Totally agree w you Ramsey. I think belts are just ways to keep people coming into class and take seminars so instructors can get more $. It's all designed to help the bottom line.

[@littleshadow2707]

I love the really old/traditional belt system, especially in Japanese arts! Also, colored belts can cost a lump sum of money depending on your number of students.

[@rezlogan4787]

If a child had gone through the black belt test I witnessed being administered to a veteran, it would be considered child abuse.

[@thenewfalcon3967]

During a class with my first martial arts instructor, he took off his belt and put it on the ground, then he had a yellow belt do the same thing. He then told the belts to fight. Obviously the belts didn't move, which lead to his point of "belts don't fight"

[@jasonkleung]

But Ramsey if I don't have a black belt how am I going to make sure my belt can go along with all clothes

[@saalllmmmmaaaa]

My dad learned taekwondo here and there from his friends in high school and college. Never went to a single class. Never trained, especially after college. And yet he was as good as i was when i was a brown belt in taekwondo (so pretty good for someone who’s never officially trained). Belt truly doesn’t matter. He could get to black belt level in less than 6 months if he actually trained. Took me 4.5 years. And took me another 4 years to get my second degree. And then someone tried to shame me that it took me 4 years to get to second degree 😭😭

[@timmychonga4901]

I had no joy in promotion of belts, I saw achievement differently for my personal goals. If you are in it to learn and be the best you can be, you realize you are not going to live that long, enjoy the journey. I have had tons of joy when I would finally have breakthroughs when I would overcome a mental and physical aspects and concepts such as fluidity, speed, power, breathing, timing and awareness working it all together piece by piece. Overcoming ones self, there is no belt or certificate that compares to that. I guess everyone's goals or reasons are different, if your destination is a belt, you miss the joy in journey also overlook some opportunity's to improve.

[@Entropy3ko]

Great video. I find a lot of parallels with academia. Instead of bleck belts you get a PhD and I remember how I coveted it and after getting it... I realized it was just the beginning. Now, PhDs, black belts, to me matter, IF you earned them truly, in the sense that they say "I worked hard and became proficient in X". Now in academia people also use rank to abuse others. Luckily where I am, we also have a "friendly attitude". Me and other post-grads, the students, the professor have all a friendly demeanor to each other,, like we are all equal. We even learn from each other. If a student knows something I don't, I listen. So does our prof. Now, of course the professor takes the lead and me and fellow postgrads coach the students in their research, just like a master leads a dojo and the black belts teach the students, but we are a team. We have a hierarchy, but not based on bullying. Frankly I find it weird when students call me "sir" or "doctor" or honorifics.. I just say "Just call me by name".... Whether academia or a dojo, it's good to have ranks to know who's at what level for matters of practicality, but when it becomes some rigid structure based on kissing ass, it sucks. And of course you do not necessarily need a physical black belt or a PhD certificate to become competent in a martial art or in an academic field. Also it's dumb to think that just because you got some rank you know all. Maybe the uncle down the street just got his elementary school degree. Yet maybe he has knowledge and wisdom I don't. Maybe he's a master at his craft he has been doing for 40 years without the need for a certificate or belt. I think when you respect each other skill, but you all treat each other as human beings with the same dignity, you learn a lot more.

[@Sovvolf]

My MMA coach is still ranked as a white belt in BJJ because he never pursuit the ranking system. Hasn't affected his ability to grapple. I got to as far as Green belt in Kickboxing before I stopped bothering down that route. Really, getting into the higher ranks never affected my ability to fight and that was my overall goal. If anything, gaining a black belt would help in ways of accreditation. Because, as daft as it seems, to a lot of people outside the martial arts world, people tend less to judge you on how many fights you win but on your belt colour. Which is stupid. So it would probably help out in marketing a gym.

[@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed]

Belts are like excuses. everyone has them or can get them The belts is a way of creating a system to lengthen the fighters training for the gyms to make more money. In the end, the only thing that matters is time not skill to get a belt. when I was a child I walked into a gym and beat the crap out of the head trainer which was called a sensei. I had no belt, no ranking and hardly any experience in karate. I was just purely a street fighter with a judo, wrestling and a boxing background at the time . Belts mean nothing. In my opinion, it just enhances the humiliation when one of their so-called black belts loses to a no belt of some other fighting style.

[@tonysicily2687]

The colour of your belt normally corresponds directly to the amount of money you have paid into the dojo. It is almost impossible to grade (even if you know the material) unless you have paid enough training fees. Do not believe me? Try this, put on a white belt, go to a different dojo, and ask if you could be graded at the next grading!

[@hendrikmoons8218]

True, for MacDoJo's

[@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed]

We think the same 👍

[@tonysicily2687]

@@hendrikmoons8218 true for every dojo I have ever trained in. Try it, see if a strange dojo will let you just pay for the grading, or do they insist you pay 6 months of fees between gradings. Will they let you take multiple gradings on the same day? Interested to hear of a dojo that will do this.

When I went to my current club, with a white belt around me waist, I asked to be graded and was. To green. No fee needed. That was 5 years ago now. Working on my second black belt level.

[@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed]

I was going to mention that the only place that the belt system makes a little bit of sense is judo. It originated in the style of judo the color belt system. By looking at the belt you know what throws and moves each person has dominated. It makes more sense than other martial arts having the colored belt system

[@brotherjew1]

I request a review of the family guy, Peter versus Chicken fights for realism. Also the UFC 265 Homer Simpson versus Peter Griffin pay per view.

[@Mokujinko]

Hi Ramsey, your monologue on respect for hierarchy, meanings of belts and so on reminded me of something I heard recently which troubled me. Another student was telling me that some time ago, the instructor tried to call for a little decorum during a session. He felt that some of the students were being disrespectful and so he said something to the effect of drop and give me 20. In order words, asserting his authority. This provoked one adult student who started cussing him out, saying he wouldn't be spoken to like that and he left. If it were me I would have done those 20 pushups without question, likely with an apology. In showing up to a class I feel that to some extent, the instructor, sensei, coach, whatever, is doing you a favor. They're giving you the gift of their knowledge and allowing you to learn. A certain degree of respect and even obedience seems like a fair trade. Was the instructor wrong? Was the angry student? Am I? How would you handle being disrespected in this way, and would you ever try to assert yourself as he did to begin with? Thanks, and nice suit.

[@Tigermaster1986]

>>Was the instructor wrong? --- I think both were wrong. The instructor shouldn't impose punishments like this on people who pay him. The student shouldn't throw temper tantrums. If I were the student, I'd probably do the push-ups and, after the session was done, I'd leave this gym for good. I'm an adult. I pay for my martial arts classes. Among other things, this makes me a customer, and as such I deserve and expect respect. I practice martial arts mostly for fun and to keep myself in shape. If the instructor tries to act like a drill sergeant - I won't tolerate this. I'll give my money to someone else. Also - from what I've seen, people like the instructor in your example often foster cult mentality among their students. I don't like this. I know what it can lead to.

[@brendanklippenstein3815]

I think it depends on why you train. The comment above me has a much different outlook towards training, and it’s a completely valid one too; however, if your goal is to deeply improve your skills and compete, then a different sort of mindset should be adopted. I don’t think we need to worship our instructors, but respect should be shown if you’re anything more than a weekend warrior. And again, nothing wrong with guys who show up and put just enough work in to justify their ice cream! In the end, it comes down to the instructor being able to know when to bust that sort of talk out, and to who. Not everyone is able to be taught, and not everyone is there for hardcore training.

[@Ventus_the_Heathen]

In a kids or teens class I'd have no problem with this sort of thing because part of the whole point is discipline and sometimes that requires mild punishments. In an adult class it's a little weird. Something I do wonder is what the adult was doing to make the instructor hand out pushups? Was he being disruptive while the instructor was talking? Was he engaged in dangerous activity?

[@Mokujinko]

@@Ventus_the_Heathen Apparently he was cursing, chatting, generally not focusing on the class or respecting the space. I see your point but by the same token the guy wasn't behaving with discipline, and it was disrupting the atmosphere. This apparently wasn't the first time: he'd got a gentle reminder to stay on task and it was ignored.

[@splendidmonkey]

Being told to do push-ups for being disruptive would definitely be considered acceptable in most Taekwondo and Karate places in the Netherlands during the '90s and '00s. Discipline was not nearly as severe as in Korea or Japan but the instructor was certainly something of an authority figure during class. I have to say that students were mostly mid-teens to mid-twenties with most instructors being much older. Without this age difference a student may not be as accepting of a strict hierarchal relationship.

[@lilalmonds4595]

I know I’m probably not the first person to ask but if you haven’t seen it I recommend you check out the creator clash boxing event, the fights I’ve seen have all been genuinely entertaining and I can’t recommend it enough for 20 or so minutes of entertainment with a spectacle or two mixed in

[@RealmOfDawn]

The thing people don't often realize, is that the belts are a tool for the teachers. It helps us see how far the students have advanced. The 1.st dan black belt is merely the first pitstop. It means you know the basics of your art. And earning that black belt is NOT easy! It takes on average about decade or so. For most regular practicioners who have a dayjob/school, and only attend classes 1-2 times a week. On topic of kids, in my style (ITF Taekwon-Do) I believe the mininum age for dan-test is 15. But if you know all your color belt stuff and are MENTALLY READY, why shouldnt you be allowed to try and get it. After all, preparatimns fpr the black belt usually start over a year before the actual test, abd ypur teacher is instructing you every strp of the way. The dan-rank means an instructor. You meed to be able to teach, its not good enough that you know your stuff. Dan-rank means you can be trusted to teach others.

[@jacobmoore6874]

13:47 to be fair thats why alot of ppl dont respect Taekwondo or Karate because they hand out black belts to everyone. Ik a guy who the only reason he isnt a black belt is because they said he had to pay a like $200 black belt fee to receive it.

[@zodiac154]

I think it depends. I like the belt system in BJJ. If I'm rolling with a brown or black belt in BJJ, i know what to expect vs a white/blue belt. In the end, you never really know until you roll with someone, but I've found that experience matters a lot in grappling. In the end, i train in the pursuit of skill. I do think stripes are for kids and a step in the wrong direction.

[@SimonVideo]

Really good video! I like what you have to say.. I feel like belts are really only good for a goal/motivation now.

[@bobbie4862]

As we said in Kickboxing and Muay Thai, Your belt is in the ring.

[@dejohnnelacy254]

Anytime I walk In A Dojo and see 8 year Olds with black belts I don't take the Dojo seriously

[@kevingray4980]

There's a very good reason for belt promotion$. It defines a road which the practitioner is expected to follow, making the business more profitable. You'll see that most students who don't quit immediately will drop out shortly after getting a promotion. In the end, all martial art organizations are McDojos in the sense that they depend on beguiling students into showing up and paying. Even in boxing/MMA, I know guys who use their first amateur/pro fight, or a pretty number of fights/results as a similar benchmark. Heck, even at the pro level. How many people would it drive nuts how Khabib retired 29-0? You start asking 'Do I really need this?' and in the back of your mind you answer 'I'll just hang in until I get my blue belt'. How much less motivating is 'I'll just hang in till I improve my guard pass rate by 15%.'

[@gingercore69]

There is a local kung fu class that adopted a belt system similsr to karate, but they dont let you take a belt test until you win all cathegories in a tournament at your level(forms and combat with and without weapons would be the cathegories) And for level they have junior and adult ranks... So you can be a blackbelt and be like... 13 years old..m if you started at age 6, won 5 tournaments and passed 5 belt test before the age pf 13... But when you get certain age, i dont remember if it was 16 or 18... You have to get your blackbelt again, by winning a tournament and doing the test again... Im not saying is the right way to do things... But its at least more valuable than just "i think you trained long enough"

[@DadBodFit]

Neat I'm a big fan of Kung Fu. What school is it and where?

[@gingercore69]

@@DadBodFit its a local long fist school in argentina, i think its based in san bernardo? It used to be in villa clelia... Same region, walking distance... I wish more styles did that!

[@greatpretender83]

I did expect it, it's in the title

[@MC-sf4ht]

I've trained in a handful of belt-oriented martial arts. I've noticed that most westerners put far more emphasis on black belts than those I've met living in Asia. For most kids it's an incentive, like Ramsey suggested. In one martial art I did, people couldn't test for black belt until 18 yr old. Many kids would quit. In taekwondo, kids can test for their 'poom' or jr. black belt. Lots of kids train. When I taught TKD in S. Korea, the school owner was promoted automatically to 7th dan when he finished his Ph.D in TKD, he was in his mid-30's. To me, belts are meant to denote time and effort and knowledge. In asia, it seems that no one really cares what your dan level is until you get to 6th or 7th dan because that suggests you've been at it for awhile.

[@theredangel8]

I know for Taekwondo at least in South Korea it's a lot different than the US, pretty much everyone who's a Master instructor from 4-9th Dan goes by the universal title of Sabeom, the terms Grandmaster and other fluffed up titles are western inventions.

[@MarioLamRedRebel]

If they have eard it..... why not. Like everything in martial arts you have people that are natural and people that take longer. Greetings from the Netherlands 🥋 OSU 🥋

[@ralfhtg1056]

I once read a joke: Little girl to her daddy: "Tell me a scary bed time story!" Father: "And the 7 year old received his Taekwondo black belt after just 2 years of practise." The thing with black belts... yes, that is kind of a hot topic. Because in our western culture it plays more a role for outsiders than for ourselves. A black belt is associated with being a master. And alone the thought that a child could be a master is rather confusing for some people. Also it might cause other issues. Let's say you are an above average practitioner, but it doesn't show in your belt colour, e.g. because your teacher has high standards and waits a bit longer before handing out a promotion. So you know what it took you to earn that belt. You practised for 10 years. Than you see an 8 year old with the same belt. And you immediately think of what you had to do in order to reach that. You wonder how on earth this child was able to deliver the same amount of effort and gain as much experience as you did? It makes your accomplishments feel less! You feel diminished. So from that point of view I totally understand the restrictions of "no black belt under the age of 18".

[@Wombo_combo75874]

Awesome video. Pretty cool history lesson too. I have a question for you. If you have a student that you are teaching for the first time, and after class they seem bothered by something you said or did, as in they are acting passive aggressive. You did something to bother them, but you don't know what. How do you handle that?

[@Bevallalom]

It depends on the school. If you have to work hard for your belt (whatever color) then it can be a good motivation. Personally I don't care about black belts too much. Recently I started a new martial art style just for fun and of course I wear a white belt there. But it does not mean I suddenly forgot how to punch or kick.... haha. I mostly kick and punch way better then some of the black belt guys there. But who cares? I enjoy working on my fitness, learning some new moves etc. I don't even plan to do any belt exam.

[@heatheryllanes6925]

I think the kempo belt system is a good compromise belts are normal for kids until black then you get a jr black belt with white stripe through it and you then work degrees or tape stripes eventually earning your black belt at age 18

[@cameronkazan1630]

Honestly I think that belt ranks should be done away with for martial artists over the age of 12-13 and peoples skill should just speak for itself. I used to do karate and there were a few instructors that had gotten there black belts many years before and had regressed to the point of being completely out of shape and barely being able to get a kick above the belt after going several years without training at all, which I considered embarrassing to our school at the time. This is one of the many reasons I switched to regular kickboxing: the lack of a “hierarchy” that has little to do with skill in the first place.

[@ricksterdrummer2170]

My Judo coach always told us: “White means you’re a beginner, black means you’re intermediate, red belt means you’re a master.” I’ve always felt it was a good philosophy.

[@TangomanX2008]

ok, interesting discussions. My take is that belts are a short cut to assess that/if someone meets a certain standard in martial art or martial art school. So if you meet someone who claims to know a martial art, instead of having you or someone spar with them, individually show you each technique they know, and test their physical fitness, you can look at their belt and draw conclusions about these things. It saves time and effort. The problem, of course, is that this is not always accurate. Whether or not doing this is necessary or useful, especially given how inaccurate this can be, that is a real issue. To put it differently, a belt system is a quality control system that may or may not be effective.

[@heliuma2]

I would lie if I say the belt or a stripe as a token of appreciation doesn’t hold a value to me. In BJJ is a rank denoting a progress. It is up to the teacher and how he or she perceives progress but it should be a progress towards better self not progress towards smothering every opponent. Also I feel that the belt is protecting me and to some extend driving my strive for improvement. Protecting me so higher belts do not kill me( if they are nice:) , protecting me from my stupidity(if the gym has decent rules) also protecting my teachers . And that is my 2 cents.

[@bobjamer8956]

I remember my Aikido instructor when referring to the belt on his gi as serving one purpose...to hold up his pants. He was also a high level belt in Judo as well. On the other hand, belt colors are stepping stones or levels of proficiency or goal posts, if you will, to give the practitioner mile stones to reach in his training. My own interpretation of belt colors as having trained in Japanese martial art...Taijutsu, Judo,Karate and Aikido. Having said that, I care little about belt colors the same just like some of the other commenters here. As per Sensei Dewey's question....I would say no, to giving kids black belts because usually a black belt connotes a person of experience in a given martial art. If that child started as a toddler and he or she is a prodigy, maybe. But how many of those have you seen?

[@ThatJamesGuy88]

The belt is a nice little pat on the back in recognition of progress. It’s also a way to divide practitioners based on perceived skill level and maturity. But if someone doesn’t care and they just want to do no gi wrestling/jiu jitsu/kickboxing/MMA style training-go for it. The belt itself isn’t important. The pursuit of skill and growth is what matters. Edit to add-I miss the videos with the old ghost faded blue belt. It was a great indicator of time and skill, regardless of the color.

[@F2007KR]

I think belts are important due to the relationship with your instructor and your school community. At my gym, it is expected that higher belts have the skills, knowledge, and responsibility to help those students who are less experienced than you. I got my purple, and white belts and early blues look to me for help after I get done smashing them. Not sure if that’s the norm everywhere, but it’s like that with us.

[@FilmFlam-8008]

Well yeah. It’s supposed to be a measurement of skill, talent, training, and responsibilities. It was showing your path to being a Sifu, if you chose. That’s what we did.

[@jaketheasianguy3307]

It also created this mental barrier that will trap alot of people like lower belt rank's knowledge input is not as value as higher belt rank. Like if i joined a normal kickboxing, a muay thai, wrestling, MMA gym....like if i need to work on a specific technique, i will just ask people who's good at that technique so i can i go ask that guy. In places that used belt system is not like that most of the time. Like a blue belt in BJJ watched Chewjitsu for example and he learned a way more efficient way for wrist lock compare to what was being taught in his place, but most of the time people will ignore his input and prefer a less efficient version of that same technique coming from a black belt. And that black belt would make sure people like to use his stuffs rather than something from a lower belt rank instead of learning what that blue belt know and improve himself.

[@FilmFlam-8008]

@@jaketheasianguy3307 I can’t really fault the belt system for that. That is more the place not recognizing someone found a better technique and implementing it. If you go to McDonald’s and you say that Dennys cooks their burgers in a better way, it’s not really the uniforms’ fault if the company doesn’t implement better training.

[@jaketheasianguy3307]

@@FilmFlam-8008 yea but it rarely happened in gyms with modern structure because only the hierarchy structure like belt system would create that kind of mentality. Like if a new guy who just joined a Muay Thai gym suddenly blast me away with a sidekick, something that's not focused or teach in Muay Thai, i will damn sure looking forward to learn it from him. In belt system, if some white belt suddenly choked out a purple belt because that guy have wrestling background + some self taught youtube BJJ, the purple belt will have his ego in the way and all sort of bad things will happen except learning from each other

[@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed]

belts is a way of securing money

[@InimitaPaul]

I don’t see why not, as long as they earn it for their age and it drops down as they age if they’re teacher doesn’t consider them to making sufficient progress. Striving to obtain it or keep it makes no difference as long as they’re striving.

[@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed]

you mean pay for it👍

[@ajshiro3957]

I feel most people assume a blackbelt means mastery. But kids can be good too. Being good at performing something doesn't make you a good teacher. What should matter is if that person wants to go beyond what they know

[@FilmFlam-8008]

Well… if they earn it. Yes. If it is just “you can memorize the katas” no. But that would be the same as if they were 30.

[@DanstevGraker]

Ranking in a system makes logistical sense if you're training more than a few students. That's true of virtually any system in which you're looking to acknowledge and track training, knowledge and experience, be it martial arts, education, or working as a pipe fitter in the local 333rd. As you pointed out, though, beyond the concept of the rank itself, everything else is rather arbitrary. There's no way to distinguish a good school from a bad one without observing and experiencing it first and the huge variety of schools and teachers, even under one governing body, will ensure that no two ranks are necessarily on the same level. Personally, if an 8 year old knows all the forms, demonstrates the skills, etc, befitting of a particular style rank and a 24 year old doesn't, the kid is still due the respect of one who has spent the time and effort to learn and acquire the knowledge. Beyond that, if a belt rank matters that much to a person that they're getting mad about who has what, then their ego is likely getting in the way of their own journey. Clearly strapping on that belt didn't suddenly make their self-worth evident.

[@donharrold1375]

Life is about being the best you can be, not about decorations.

[@saparapatepete]

Gotta say, i never cared about belts themselves, just the skill to fight. If the belt fails to measure that properly, it's just a clothing accessory.